THE San Francisco Giants Blog

For or against the committee

Posted in Uncategorized by willedav on August 27, 2012

Trying to take the bad taste out of my mouth from the last two games, not to mention having to listen to the annoying Orel for a couple hours last night, I’d like to talk about something on this off day that has been bothering (or not) almost all of us here for a little  while:  bullpen by committee.

  Here is a direct quote from Bochy, the guy with the final say, on this topic yesterday in the Chron:  “I think we can juggle it the whole way. Ideally, sure, you’d have one guy.  But I think they enjoy knowing any of them could be out there in the 8th or 9th.  Keeps them on their toes a little bit.”

 So that’s what the boss says, at least for publication. I think if anyone can make this situation, unconventional as it is, work then it would be Bochy and Rags.  Ramirez from 2010 seems to me the guy they haven’t been able to replace, i.e. another righty to set up for who is closing.  Kontos and Hensley are not late inning/close game guys, and affeldt’s last few outings have been less than stellar. 

 Watching the Braves over the weekend you have to marvel at their pen guys— being able to go to Venters and Kimbrel plus Durbin and O’Flaherty can turn any game into a 7 inning affair.  When SF handled Hanson and Sheets these guys weren’t a factor.  Saturday after SF cut the lead to 4-3 and both starters were out of the game,  we gave them some insurance runs while their guys held us off rest of the way.  Last night Mijares put two runners on and then Kontos gave up a big hit to a light hitter that brought them in, and Hensley gave up two bombs in the 9th adding insult to injury. First two nights SF pen held them off after we got the lead; next two nights theirs did the same

  Anyway, barring an unforeseen addition other than Mota or a call up such as Otero, this is what we have to work with.  So tell me how you handle the delicate situation of set up guys and closer during the stretch drive..

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  1. blade3colorado said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:29 am

    Good thread willieD. Bochy knows exactly what he is doing and I agree with him that it does keep them “on their toes a little bit,” which is great for competition amongst the relief corps. That being said, these things usually shake out and one reliever separates themselves from the pack. I’m thinking that Casilla will eventually retain the job he had. Insofar as experience, he’s the man. I have no idea why he went “south” just before the all star break. Some surmise that it might have been the blister he developed. Again, no idea if this was the primary reason for him not being effective. In any event, I think the original reason he was selected to close, still is valid and I’m betting on him getting the job back.

  2. Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:32 am

    Juggle

  3. demp28 said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:42 am

    Nice thread williedav. I don’t get paid thee big bucks to make those decisions, but as long as the Giants “keep the line moving” I’m okay with Affeldt, Lopez, Romo ninth inning. But Bochy needs to realize that he can’t burn themm out down the stretch; much like Atlanta did last year
    There are a few more off days in September. I would like to see Boch and Rags stretch out the starters to at least seven or eight innings to give the bullpen a little rest. I think if the Giants can build a big lead late, maybe have Casilla or Kontos close out the games and save the big 3. I’m out until tomorrow; much like the Giants.

  4. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:32 am

    I want to see Pence tear it up on this garbage road trip. Like 3 HRS/10 RBIs….

  5. Flavor said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:39 am

    I hate the idea of CBC but Bochy says it’s the right thing for this team this year so I support it. I’ve been a little surprised that Casilla hasn’t earned another shot but I think Boch has just decided he’s better as a set up guy.

  6. Alleykat said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:43 am

    I don’t care for the closer by committee myself,really would like to see Romo handed that spot.He has the most consisent stuff that you need to close.Boch has to get it out of his mind that he’s not durable enough to hold up.His stuff has been electric most of the year,this is the time of year you just have to let him go,you rest in the offseason.

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:50 am

      I don’t think it’s coincidence that Romo started hanging his frisbees more as soon as his job was upgraded- he’s the 8th inning “roogie”, Casilla should be given his closer job back. IMO. As as far stuff the only “electric” kind is Casilla’s.

  7. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:45 am

    Bochy and Raggs are always willing to stretch the rtaters ot to 7 or more. It’s hardly a coaching or management issue. Even now, our starters pitch the second most innings in the NL. The relievers are not over worked and never have been under Bochy.
    The committee needs to be disbanded though-it’s the reason lesser guys have been pushed into more important roles than they should.

    POTD: try to be a little bit fair- Hensley is not very good but the HRs he gave up were pretty much meaningless- unlike some they hit off our starters.

    • Macdog said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:20 am

      “In all fairness, though, our guys don’t get to face Bumgarner, Cain, Lincecum, Zito, Casilla, Romo, Penny, Loux, Mota and Hacker, all of whom have a worse HR/9 ratio than Hensley, or Vogelsong, who has the same HR/9 ratio as Hensley.” I think that covers it.

  8. Flavor said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Today’s *fun fact* for Timmy (ie, one more thing to worry about): the K’s are going down. His last 5 starts: 3,3,5,4,4.
    Some of that is that he’s pitching less innings each game. But he’s way off a K an inning over that 5 start sequence. Not good and a bad omen of either 1) a hidden injury or 2) more of the same shit performances to come.

  9. Alleykat said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Good news from the Dodger’s spending frenzy: In all the confusion,the Dodgers took on the contract of Andris Biedrins.

    • blade3colorado said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:00 am

      Good one Kat . . . I’m thinking – who the fuck is Andris Biedrins? Then it hit me. Sorry, after I won my BB fantasy league championship this year, I went immediately into baseball season mode. :-)

  10. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:12 am

    Since Break:
    Lincecum 9 starts 54.1 IP 52 H 18 BB 51 K 3.31 ERA 1.288 WHiP SO/9 8.4 SO/BB ratio 2.83 (4-4)
    Zito 8 starts 47.2 IP 47 H 13 BB 29 K 4.91 ERA 1.259 WHIP SO/9 5.5 SO/BB ratio 2.23 (3-2 )

    A lot of things can be discussed about those numbers, but it can’t be argued that Tim has been “shit” since the break and that Zito has been good. Obviously, based on runs allowed, Tim has been better.

    • blade3colorado said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:08 am

      Agree that Timmy has been better with regard to runs allowed (by a wide margin). Zito hasn’t been terrible, i.e., his WHIP and BB total has been decent. Yes, “a lot of things can be discussed about those numbers.” Timmy’s overall SO/BB ratio has been decent since the All Star break, albeit, (as Flav pointed out) the last few games haven’t been as good. Personally, I am not overly disappointed with either pitcher, except it’s obvious that Timmy isn’t Timmy like as in years past. Good stuff Mike.

  11. demp28 said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Giants bullpen stats from the 4 game series vs. Atlanta:
    10.2 IP, 12 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 6 BB, 7 K, 200 pitches thrown, 2 HR. Season ERA for the ‘pen is 3.93. Ouch.

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:55 am

      Through it all we have almost the exact save percentage as Atlanta (we’re 77% (tied for 3rd in the NL), they are 78%). And our pen throws the second fewest innings in the NL. A closer look at the pen ERA shows that most of the bad ERA numbers are from guys who aren’t here. Hensley’s has shot up a full run in the last week or so to 4.37, the other active relievers are at
      Casilla 3.04
      Affeldt 2.92
      Romo 2.06
      Lopez 2.48
      Kontos 2.25

      Mijares and Hacker have only pitched 10 relief innings between them, not enough to have any significant bearing on the team reliief ERA.

  12. demp28 said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:14 am

    Now I’m out.

  13. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:21 am

    I think it’s safe to say our pitching in general is no longer as good as its reputation…

  14. paulinasia said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Seems like a lot of runs being allowed in the late innings lately. A lot more than when the team has a set closer and all the others in the pen aligned accordingly. Like most others here, I also generally think Bochy is the best, but on this, I think he’s wrong… unless there’s something we don’t know about Casilla, he should be reinstated and the whole pen can be set up better. They’re all out of whack. On their toes my ass.

  15. Alleykat said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Looks like for sure we will get a call up of Xavier Nady now.Just hit his 5th and 6 HR’s in 21 games at Fresno.Rather that equates up in the Show,we will see.But any power he could supply down the stretch in our black hole in LF would be welcomed.

  16. paulinasia said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Or else the team is working a deal for a Heath Bell….

  17. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:04 am

    If Pen by Committee worked well, everybody would do it. They don’t. The only time you do it is when you don’t have a dependable closer, which is what is going on here. If Casilla’s “blister” is healed, they would give him a try again, but for it’s obvious Bochy doesn’t trust him in that closer role, and there’s enough evidence for that conclusion. If anything will prevent the squad from reaching the playoffs, it’s the Pen. It is not well. Hensley is a repetitive joke. Bochy’s hiding him now in give up situations, but that is an obvious problem that maybe Mota can improve. They need to fix it stat, no sense going on a 6 game roadie with an obvious gas can on fire in the Pen, regardless of his role. Romo seems vulnerable. Affeldt is spotty, that curve ball better get over or he’s out of control, big time…

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:31 am

      Long relief and/or mop up has been a problem all year, hardly just Hensley- until the last week or so, he’d actually been one of the best in that role. Penny, Edlefsen, Otero, Loux, now Hacker and Mijares..even Mota himself, have stunk it up. Only Kontos has been respectable and he’s been vulnerable of late. But as shown above, the present pen has been far better than the misperception. As if it hasn’t been shown enough already-ignore what the manager says as far it being Gospel for the ages- there is no way he sticks with the committee- and the only guy other than loogy Lopez pitching well enough to even consider being “the man” is Casilla. If he isn’t returned to that role, something’s fishy in Denmark.

  18. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Blanco has started 7 games and played in 3 more over the last two weeks- over that span he’s hitting .321 with a .424 OBP. I’m not sure why anyone would want him replaced in LF now. I’m all for bringing Nady up on the first, hopefully he can give us some of that RH “bench pop” we’ve lacked..

  19. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:29 am

    I was gone when the RSox-LA blockbuster went down. Acquiring Gonzales is clearly a net plus and should be worth a coupla games coming down the stretch, which may or may not put them over the top. But, the more important thing is strategic. This deal confirms what I believed and said, as did many others, from the get go for these new LA owners. They are establishing, and early, a new competitive paradigm in the NL West, indeed in the NL overall. They are the new Yankees, maybe worse. They have the wherewithal to spend stupidly, see what sticks, and toss the rest upon failure. More to the point, if they spend that money even approaching smartly, the Giants bettter get ready to start spending $150M or more per year for the next several seasons, at least. Not to do so will be at their peril. Because they won’t be able to get away with pitching focus and then cobbling together every year and mid-season a piss poor hitting lineup with this kind of spending behemoth facing them from the Southland. The Giants have prospered the last few years while facing a Keystone Kops ownership in the Dodgers. That has ended likely for at least the rest of this decade…

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:33 am

      Funny since they’ve just shown they can’t spend the money wisely.

  20. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Went to the game on Saturday. Nice day, great crowd, got to see some of the America’s cup race when I parked, but what a blah game. Bummie walking Minor was plain disastrous. Then walking Prado? The ofcourse was followed by Bummie hanging a fastball to Heyward. Losing to the 6-10 Minor was bad enough. But Minor (point oh-fucking-two-four) later doubled and scored in the 7th. It amazes me at the seemigly astronomical numbers opposing pitchers have vs the Giants. Fucking Hudson was 2 for 3 yesterday.

    Blanco got the big hit pinch hitting for Peguera, driving in 2 in the 7th, and the crowd finally got into it. Sadly that was followed by Hensley and Affeldt gagging in the top of the 8th. The strike zone appeared to be very tight that day, but I can’t be sure from where we were sitting. All in all, blehhh. Yesterday’s game looked much the same. Wait for the shoe to drop, and scuttle through the order with as little impact as possible.

    Pence is really becoming a major issue. Yeah, he had 3 hits yesterday but 1 RBI in his last 51 ABs is not very productive. His batting stance looks awful. He consistently swings at down and away pitches that he has NO business swinging at. I don’t know, he should be doing better, right? Maybe he can get going on the road in his old stomping grounds.

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:55 am

      I noted the other day that the 9 spot was hitting over .200 against us, now .219. Highest in the league. Don’t know how much of that is pinch hitters.League average is .175.

    • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:57 am

      Pence is a definite worry. With Melky gone, Pence has to get back to near his baseball card stats, else the trade obviously will be a fail this season. Giants have done well with him doing very little. Optimists would say he’s due to get on track. Realists would say he’s been off track since the AS break and has not been hitting the ball hard at all, save that one HR. Hopefully the roadie will settle him. Certainly the opposition has no incentive to throw him strikes at this point…

      • Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:12 am

        More importantly, they won’t throw Posey strikes.

    • blade3colorado said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:21 am

      I’ve said the same thing about Pence’s swing and propensity to strike out. Quite frankly, in my opinion, he got really lucky his last season in Houston and Philadelphia. I hope this isn’t the case, but I believe he has had his best years already. Currently, Pence is batting .214 (21 for 98) with one homer and 16 RBI through 25 games with our team.

      Next year, he WILL NOT come close to hitting 25 homers, much less 20, as he did in his last 3 full seasons in Houston, where he hit exactly 25 each year. Forgot about a .280 average and 80 RBIs as well (about what he has averaged in his career). I hope we don’t invest in him long term.

  21. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Our piss poor hitting is now middle of the NL pack and first in road hitting. BTW, on pace for 693 runs, 4 less than 2010 and 7 less than what I called. We’re lacking the Homerun power at home- largely because they did not replace the RH power they got from Uribe and Burrell-who hit 23 at home in 2010. And Belt has obviously not provided the HR power Huff did in 2010. But overall, we’ve hit better as the season has gone on-number 1 in the NL this month. A couple of losses always makes things seem more dire than they really are..

  22. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:53 am

    I think that deal bites the Dogs squarely in the ass. There’s no guarantee it puts them in this year, and it screws them for a long time down the road. The talking heads crow as they will about the deal, but Crawford isn’t going to give them much next year. Beckett’s suddenly a stand-up guy for admitting he sabotaged the Red Sox? Really? He’s a big ? A-Gon is a big upgrade over Loney, and Punto? A banjo-hitting 3rd baseman? Ehhh. They got one good player, lost Rubby and some other nice prospects and took on $261 million. Brilliant.

    This isn’t the NBA. This is baseball.

    • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:01 am

      I think this deal doesn’t bite LA in the ass one bit. One of the three will be a good contributor, probably Gonzales. He’s obviously a cut above Loney. They gave up a coupla decent prospects. So what? LA is going to sign a humongous TV deal this year. Some say $4 billion over a decade. Whatever it is, it will be huge. So, this deal is only the beginning. It’s Yankees West, and the Giants are going to have to play the RSox role, if ownership has the guts to play it…

      • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:09 am

        Yeah, there’s some dead money coming off the books at the end of the year, so we’ll see. Who’s out there to get beside Bourn?

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:13 am

        Well, you liked the Bums to win even before the trade, so your position doesn’t surprise me. But there is zero doubt the Sox made a killing. It was a great deal for them if all they did was dump salary. As to the Dodgers, they could have kept the playrers they gave up and done far far better with spending over 200 million in the market this winter. Stupid stupid stupid- the Dodgers, I mean.

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:40 am

        I’m not saying it was a smart deal. But, it’s a deal that will help them now with the Gonzales upgrade. If they make the playoffs, it’s a success, along with the Ramirez acquisition, which now looks like chump change. And, when you have money to burn, well, some will burn the money. The new owners are finance guys. They know the numbers. They aren’t doing this because they’re idiots with the projected profit and loss statements over the next five years…

      • blade3colorado said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:46 am

        They took on more than 250 billion dollars (or if you prefer, more than a quarter trillion dollars) in future contracts, with “one sure thing (they hope), two has beens, and a never was.” Yeah, 4 billion dollars is nice to have, but why am I reminded of the Mike Tyson School of Finance?

      • blade3colorado said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm

        Whoops . . . Meant millions. :-)

  23. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Be that as it may, Twin, but Pence is looking like a floater at this point.

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:07 am

      Beltran looked sunk, dead, and buried-and hardly just the DL time, obviously. Pence is at least driving in runs, 2nd on the team in August, I believe.

  24. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:08 am

    One RBI since Aug 13th.

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:17 am

      And his 16 is 2 less than Beltran had the whole time he was here. There’s 5 weeks to go. September will tell the story…

    • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:17 am

      Ahhhhhhhh 4 ribbies. Fuck it. He’s God. They got no choice, but come on. he needs to light up in Houston

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:46 am

        There’s no “Be that as it may” in my factual statement that the Giants lead the NL in runs scored this month. I didn’t say Pence has hit well. The team as a whole has-and as I and Craig, and some others have said- they’ve been better without Mellky.

  25. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:12 am

    When this new ownership bought the Dodgers, the players union leadership must have high-fived themselves silly…

  26. Flavor said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:31 am

    I’m glad Houston is up next. Pence needs to get back to that place and get going (which I think he will do).

  27. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:37 am

    OK, third. How does this work for you? Can you live with: the “SF Giants lead the NL in runs scored in August but they’d lead by even more if Pence was hitting better?”

  28. Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:43 am

    And Pablo hit just .227 with 0 hrs in Aug…amazing this team is in 1st.

  29. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:47 am

    The Giants got outhomered 7 to zip in the Braves series. They managed to win 2 of the 4 in close games, but got smoked in the other two. The lack of power at ATT where they’re outhomered by about 3:1 ratio this season is a problem that won’t go away if they make the playoffs. It will be tough to win home games against hard hitting playoff teams like the Red, Nats, Braves and Cards with almost no home pop and a pitching staff this year, unfortunately, not of the historic lock down caliber of 2010 and 2011…

  30. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Well, they 3 blowouts to pad their stats. 15-10 is all well and good, but if they want to stay ahead of the Dodgers, they need to do better than the 9-11 in their last 3 home stands. If they were playing as well at home as they are on the road, they’d be up by 7 games.

    • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:12 pm

      Agreed. They are 37-28, I believe, or close to that, at ATT. Not overwhelming at all at home, contrary to recent seasons. SF has 34 games left, they need 20Ws to get to 91Ws, or a .588 clip the rest of the season. They should, should be able to do that with their schedule, especially with the next 6 being with dogmeat clubs. Should. They’ve got 16 at home, so assuming they can win 10 of those, they need 10 on the road out of 18, with 6 against crap teams, so that road target seems very doable. But, remember the Cubs were crap and ended up beating the Pads that last part of 2010. I’m pegging 91 Ws because at the beginning of the season, I predicted 91 for SF, coming in second. If they can get to 92 or 93, which will be I think a bridge a bit too far, I think they win over LA, given LA’s tougher schedule. It’s going to be close…

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:18 pm

      Other teams get blow outs, too, Chuckles. They count for everybody. Kind of a big reason we had a few in August was because so many guys have hit well. That Pence and Pablo haven’t hit well makes the good month even more impressive, not less. Next month they could very well kick ass while Buster and Pagan slump. Or whoever. I’m not worried about it at all. We’re the best team in the West…

  31. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    As I touched on the other day-and I’m not saying they did this, but the waiver wire procedure could tempt some teams to do it– The Dodgers were in a position to intentionally lose that series to the Giants in order to virtually ensure that they would be a postition to either block a SF deal or make one of their own. They went into the series having won 5 of 7 against two good teams, procuring a 1/2 game division lead. Then we swept them, with the Bums unable to even achieve a tie score after the top of the first in any game. When we left with the 2 1/2 game lead

    the Dodgers were almost assured of being behind us on the day they made the deal, no matter what either team did after that series.

    • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:13 pm

      You’re saying the Giants would have blocked and traded for Gonzales?…

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:25 pm

        They didn’t have to make a trade. In the waiver wire process they only have to be prepared to take on the salary. If they can’t complete a trade in 72 hours, they either have Gonzales and the salary, or Boston can veto the whole thing. But there’s no second bite- once the claim is made, no other team can give it a go. Since the Sox wanted prospects AND the salary relief, the likely outcome would have been nothing happens. Gonzo is off the table for everyone..

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:31 pm

        OK…

  32. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    I’m sure some of you can roll out stats that show they’ve been better without Melky. Just don’t expect me to believe them. His replacement is not better than him, and if others have stepped it up it still doesn’t mean they’re better without him. I’m not into Melky-dwelling, but diminishing Melky’s loss is also silly…

    • Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:33 pm

      And when totaling our impressive Aug numbers, one has to remember Melky went 17/55 (.308) scored 16 runs, 8 rbi’s, 5 doubles and a .908 ops.

      • DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:53 pm

        Good job, Salty…

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:26 pm

        Well, I was unclear, my bad. What I’ve said before, and my point now, is that the team is better without Melky with the additions and the return of Pablo then they were before that. Certainly they would be better with Melky plus those changes. If that’s still not clear, they are better now than they would have been in all but ONE game this year- the game before Melky checked out. They’d be better still with the Milker but it’s reasonable to wonder how much longer he would have been productive when a looming suspension. And if the website scam had been completed, the blemish on the whole team could have been disastrous. The PED use is zzzzzzzzzzzzz, his and his associates actions have been disgusting.And some of those Melkmaids were pretty hot… lowlife fucker…

  33. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    I must have missed it, but I don’t understand the rationale for Whiteside coming back. Is Posey’s leg that big of a deal that they expect El Presidente to catch or is he just an insurance policy or a potential PRer? With the LF in flux, to say the least, and a RH bat needed still, I otherwise don’t see the use of keeping a no-hitting catcher around for a week “just in case” before the call ups…

  34. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Well, here’s to hoping the Giants win the division by 2 games, and LA’s so-called strategy of throwing the series backfires on them. I think that’s a stretch, but hey, weirder shit has happened.

    I tell ya though, I sure would like to see them win more here. It used to be a distict advantage. Lately it hasn’t been. Big hitting teams are beating us here. Warmer weather, balls going further? Who knows?

    All that being said, the Giants definitely have the schedule in their favor. They HAVE to beat up on these lesser clubs before the next Dodger series September 7th.

    • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:43 pm

      I didn’t say the Bums threw it- I pointed out how the process invites it,and in this case, doing it would have fesasible.

    • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 12:46 pm

      Well, yeah. The ‘Stros and Cubs may be dogmeat, but they’re still MLB clubs. I hear people on radio saying that a 5-1 is essentially in the bag on this roadie. I don’t think anything’s in the bag. The Giants, to my memory, don’t win in Wrigley just by showing up. I’d take 4-2 and be glad about it Anything above that is cool. Anything below that will be uncool, as that just gives away the dogmeat advantage. Anything below a 3-3 would be a disaster…

  35. Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    twin, I understood what you said about the waiver wire process. Do you (or any of you guys for that matter) know if the same rules holds true on a multiplayer deal like this one? Does a team trying to block a trade have to claim Crawford, Gonzalez and Beckett as well, or can the deal be blocked if any one of them is claimed?
    I’m just curious if anyone knows off the top of their head (in other words, not something to waste time looking up).

  36. eddacker said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    CBC, stimulating topic willieD, I have a little different view on it. I made my judgement after I saw the way the manager was using it and during a few games when they did well. So I saw something that could be brilliant. Slitting the series with Atl was a good thing. They’re a good team getting better at the moment. Making sense of the numbers gives me a headache. I like the era on most of our current top guys; but over use even just warming up and not pitching can take a toll on CBC. Twin suggested playing 500 ball could get us the win in the west. We just went 500 with a formidable opponent. The team looks wobbly, both offence and defence; starting pitching and bull pen. This team always looks that way. And then they get it done. I can’t see our bull pen or any member of the committee being a day in day out stopper. I trust the on field manager to know what might work today. And I see a team that can win “on any Sunday” in any park.

    • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:18 pm

      Heh heh heh. He said offence. AND defence!

      I know it’s the Queen’s English to spell it that way, but is it proper baseball ettiquite? Proper baseball English?

      I think not.

      Twin’s saying .500 ball because it would put them at his magical 88 wins . . . ;)

      Whether that’s good enough to win the west remains to be seen. The Dogs proved with their last roadie that they can beat the tough teams in their house. They can have trouble scoring as well though.

  37. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Bozo, I don’t think the deal gets done simply by the Dodgers taking A-Gon and his salary for whatever the Dogs were going to throw their way. The only way Boston does the deal is to make the Dodgers eat Beckett and Crawford as well. IMO . . .

    • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:19 pm

      In other words, Boston would have balked on the whole thing if it came down to strictly A-Gon. If the Giants had blocked A-Gon then the whole deal falls through.

      I think……

      • Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:34 pm

        Well, Dodgers claimed Beckett separately, so think Sox would have gladly parted with him.

    • Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:45 pm

      But would the trade be blocked if a team under the Dodgers, say the Pads claimed just Gonzalez or would they also have to claim Beckett and Crawford to match the deal the Dodgers were doing? The only reason I’m asking is because if a big market team goes all in like this, most small market (hell, medium market as well) wouldn’t want the three salaries, if that’s what it would take to block it. In which case, the Yankees and Dodgers would never be blocked on a waiver wire trade again they would just take a bunch of bad contracts to get the guy they wanted.

      No big deal, I was just wondering.

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:03 pm

        Nobody had to claim all of them. The Red Sox goal, which the Goobertown Dodgers went for, was to shed salary and also acquire prospects. In the Pads example- the Red Sox have no option to wait for a better deal or deny the claim to the Pads if they just wanted Gonzalez. If the Red Sox weren’t willing to part with Adrian for just the salary dump and no trade was completed with the Pads within 72 hours, Gonzalez remains in Bostpn and no other team may claim him. It’s one bite only. Now the Dodgers could still work a trade for Beckett, Crawford, and Punto but I doubt they are THAT stupid..

      • Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:12 pm

        Well that’s good news. The Dodgers only came up with a way to get the guy they wanted in a waiver trade (by taking on bad contracts) but a team under them could still block the deal by claiming the guy that the Dodgers really wanted. So the rules weren’t really circumvented.
        I’m good with that. Thanks twin.

  38. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Initially the Bums claimed Gonzales and the thinking (from what I read on MLBTR was that it was no BFD , Sox just fucking around, a deal highly unlikely. Then the Bums claimed Beckett also and a deal was cranking up within minutes… in other words..wait for it…Chuck is right..

    • DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:46 pm

      As is the continually under appreciated Salty…

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:50 pm

        Salty is great.

      • Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:58 pm

        thanks, Loo…

      • Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:02 pm

        Shucks. I’m just a decent utility guy.

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:36 pm

        Hell, Punto is gertting 1.5 Million for that, Salty. And he’s now 6th in line to fuck Alyssa Milano. You really are under appreciated..

    • Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:50 pm

      Yes, I get how it was done but I’m wondering if the whole thing would’ve been blocked if say the Pads wanted to get Gonzalez back but didn’t put a claim on Beckett.

      I guess I’m not explaining myself well on this. Again, no big deal. Thanks to both you and Chuck for trying though.

      • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:16 pm

        Yes, it would have blown the deal, Bozo. Like Mike said, One team can make a claim, and if nothing happens, then the deal dies and A-Gon’s off the table. Toe Dodgers can’t claim him. But what apparently happened (based on what Mike just said) is the Dogs half (hoof) heartedly claimed A-Gon. A little later they claimed Beckett. Once that happened, Boston went into ‘let’s-see-how-much-salary-we-can-dump-on-them’ mode.

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:24 pm

        Did my further explanation help? Each claim is seperate. Once the Pads, in your example, put a claim in on Gonzalez, there are then only two possible destinations for him- back to San Diego or still in Boston. Boston can say ” sorry, but we’re not doing anything without Beckett and Gonazalez both in the deal” and the Pads would have the option of going forward with what Boston wanted- but they had no obligation to and Gonzo is now unavailable to other teams. The only risk for San Diego would if Boston said “Cool, he’s yours” (for the salary owed him). They don’t have to make a trade. But they have then successfully blocked any other team from getting him.
        When we got Ross we were just blocking San Diego, it was said. Turned out they wanted nothing in return so we got him just for his salary. If the Marlins had wanted players also, we probably wouldn’t have got him- but San Diego was still blocked…

      • Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:38 pm

        Yes it did twin, thanks to you both.

  39. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Pearce to the Yanks…

  40. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Whether the Dodgers benefit is debateable, I haven’t seen much that argues anything other than that the Sox scored big. Somebody here said that Magic was now the most popular man in Boston- funny and probably true. The Red Sox got some good prospects and have a kazillion bucks to spend this winter. Just think- they can now afford Aaron Rowand and 4 more guys just like him!!!
    Seriously-this was a coup for Cherington..

    • DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:02 pm

      The quote was “Magic is now more popular in Boston than Larry Bird”…..I read it somewhere.

  41. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    The winnah in all this is the RSox. Out from under a quarter billion in commitments, it must be an early Christmas at Fenway. Getting out from under Crawford is alone a huge win. They’ll be slaying the FA market this winter, after they ditch Valentine. Didn’t we all say when hired he’d be a disaster there? Why do we know this, and the guys with huge checkbooks don’t?…

    • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 2:17 pm

      I didin’t give 2 shits, but I really didn’t think it would go this badly . . .

  42. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    When the fried chicken hysteria dies down, I would suggest a pizza page – then a hamburger page…

  43. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Day off. Let’s see more fried chicken talk- link to the right. A good place to eat it out? And what is this claim that Zagat rated KFC best Fried Chicken? So is Olive Garden best Italian? Mom’s really is the best diner? Ralph’s All U Kin Eat Noodle Palace best Chinese…our march towards Armageddon quickens…

    • DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 3:13 pm

      Once heard a guy in a bar here telling his friend that a restaurant he was recommending was highly rated by “Zoo-gotz”……(only in Brooklyn).

      • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 3:19 pm

        Zoogotz. Sounds like Rodney Dangerfield’s doctor.

        (Boombotz)

      • DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 3:28 pm

        That’s exactly how he pronounced it, Chuck. You should’ve heard what he did with “Taj Mahal” a few minutes later…

  44. eddacker said, on August 27, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    I don’t think the BoSox want to spend all that money in the FA market. but mgment has some serious ‘splainin’ to do to the fans if their plan is to make 2013 a rebuilding year, which would make sense if they want to put that money to best use. Home grown talent and youth.
    In the end this will be a good trade for them. The bobbyV thing has me stumped though.

    I may have been wrong about how the dogers will fare. Apparently a lot of debt is not a problem for them. If I wanted to make good use of my time, I mean other than doing yard work, I would put more time in on that one because I would love to write the obituary of the dogers right now.

  45. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Talk about dirty tricks- it seems that informed sources say the tropical storm threatening the RNC is Muslim…

    • Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm

      snort….

    • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 4:23 pm

      It’s a Scientology storm.

      Isaac Hayes.

      • Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 5:09 pm

        It’s raining Chef’s big chocolate salty balls?

      • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:00 pm

        Watch out for the Schwetty weiners . . .

  46. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Coming up- look for a Burger link to the right- are you the man in your house when it’s time for fat, juicy burgers? Or does the wife kick your ass in the grilling department? Turkey and Veggie burgers- heresy or the healthy way to go? Where do yu get them out? The best fast food fries? A secret pace that you’ll share? Hubert Keller has introduced a Kobe beef burger with Foie Gras and Truffles at his Las Vegas joint- the price? $5,000…those fries in the background- they’re extra…

    burger

    • Flavor said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:52 pm

      I’m looking forward to the hamburger thread. I think it’s a fantastic idea to have a revolving thread dedicated to just one dish. But as a group of mostly dudes, I’m guessing this runs through kinda quickly. :)

    • Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:20 pm

      Burgers? OK, but let me know when we get to the meatball thread.

      I like my hamburger at the 80/20 fat thing for both pan frying and grilling. I’ve got some ground deer meat in the freezer that I’ve got to do something with, the stuffs pretty lean so maybe I’ll mix some pork or ground chuck with it. Not Sure what to do with it yet.

      • Bozo said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:30 pm

        Hey twin, are you going to keep copies of the recipes? We could have us a Flapper cookbook.

  47. Macdog said, on August 27, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    Beckett begins his Dodgers career by giving up a leadoff HR to Tyler Colvin.

  48. unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    There’s a place in Roseville called the Squeeze Inn. Excellent burgers. Excellent (real) shakes.

    • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:03 pm

      And I’m the master of the ‘que . . .

      • WilcoJoe said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:19 pm

        Always thought Big D’s on Silverado Trail in Napa made one helluva burger…Same for Heavenly Hamburgers in Santa Rosa…I doubt either are still there.

  49. WilcoJoe said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Just bought my tickets for tomorrows Astros game on Stubhub. Six rows behind the Giants dugout for $25 a piece. You gotta love a club that ranks 27th in attendance…Taking the four year old, hope he makes it past the fifth.

    • DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:54 pm

      That’s how I feel when Tim starts a game…

      • Flavor said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:01 pm

        Loo, WTF? I gave u an average looking chick in a bikini holding a giant beach ball with her thumb stuck out and I get nothing from you at the BBOTD?

    • Flavor said, on August 27, 2012 at 6:56 pm

      That’s freaking awesome. Looking forward to the updates. Last year’s were epic so don’t try to top that unless it just “happens”. And by “happens” I mean Bochy turns to you in the 8th and calls you in from the stands to replace Hensley. Or maybe you sing a verse in the Star Spangled Banner— shit like that!

      • WilcoJoe said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:15 pm

        Yeah, getting to meet Neukom last year (just days before he got shit canned) was pretty cool…Something tells me Larry Baer isn’t the “let’s road trip to Houston” type of guy.

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:12 pm

        I lived in Houston for a while. I’d love to go to a game at the Minute Maid, or Enron, or whatever they call it. I remember seeing it under construction. I did see a coupla games at the Astrodome, one I think was a Giants game. Like a friggin mausoleum. The annual Rodeo in it every Feb is a better use of that building. Houston generally suxx, but it has great restaurants, speaking of food and recipes. I think it has more restaurants per capita than any US city ‘cept NYC. I’d go there to see a Giants game and a steak at Churasco’s, or a plate of crawfish etouffe out at Pappadeaux on the I-10. Yum. Pounding down a coupla pints of Boddie’s at the old Ale House was fun, too. Barmaids and servers there were two baggers, but big chests all and they never spilled the beer. The original Lupe’s out west side off the Highway 6 had the best Tex Mex I’ve eaten, and I grew up in California eating Tex Mex. Great enchiladas suizas, but margaritas suck. “Eees pretty good” is/was their monicker…

      • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:25 pm

        Pappadeaux is the bomb . . . The one I’ve been to is the one by IAH . . .

      • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:32 pm

        There was also a bar-b-q place off of Hwy 1960 called Willie’s Roadhouse? Giant troughs of ice-cold beer and all the bar-b-q you can eat. Killer stuff. Texas biscuits everywhere . . .

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:44 pm

        BBQ places in Houston or anywhere in TX are like burger places out here. They’re everywhere. I found over time that you could generally tell a good one from an average or bad one by just tasting the brisket. That’s basic. If they F’d up the brisket, then forget it. Everything else was average or marginal. If they nailed the brisket, they generally nailed the ribs and sausage, too, and the sauce would be good as well. Houston had decent BBQ places, but the better ones were up towards Austin and Dallas. Houston had serious seafood places, good ones. I always tried the gumbo to start. Luv gumbo. Has to be a bit “piquant”, but for me, not too damn hot, I want to taste the seafood. And, for biz I used to go sometimes to Brennan’s downtown for lunch. Owner is some family relation to the Brennans that run the Brennans restaurants and Commander’s Palace in New Orleans…

  50. Alleykat said, on August 27, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    So if the A’s make the playoffs,why bother bringing back their portly pitcher Bartolo Colon? Without his “juice,” Bartolo will be a semi-Colon.

  51. Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    How about those vaunted Bums getting shut out at Coors 4-0, btm 8th. Jeff Francis with a 5+ ERA and mid 80’s stuff went 5. Kemp Gonzo Ramirez and Ethier a combined 1-12.

    • Salty said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:29 pm

      Now 6-0!

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:33 pm

        Go Rocks!…

  52. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    I guess most of you know the Rockies are thumping LA, 6-0 bottom 8th. Kemp might’ve just hurt himself hitting the OF wall…

    • Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:50 pm

      good

  53. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    Now 7-0!

    • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:34 pm

      I assume that means Beckett got blasted…

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:38 pm

        He gave up 3 runs in 5 2/3.

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:41 pm

        They got 7 in the 8th off of Jansen and Wall.

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:48 pm

        Well 3 in 5 2/3 is about Timmeh’s territory these days. Not horrendous, not great…

      • twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:04 pm

        Since the all star break Zito and Lincecum have both averaged 6 innings per start. And both have had 2 7 inning, 1 eight. The team is 5-4 in Timmy’s outings, 5-3 in Zito’s. They’ve become the same guy ;-)

  54. DJLoo said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Do I hear 10?

  55. TedSpe said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    I’m forever blowing bubbles
    Pretty bubbles in the air

  56. Flavor said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Beckett was bad–1.76 WHIP for the night—that’s near *Dirrrty* territory this year. I didn’t see any of the game, but the line is his typical bullshit this year. I fucking LOVE this. 10-0 loss? Haha. And don’t gimmie this bullshit about Colorado, the Dodgers couldn’t score a fucking run there against a hilarious pitching staff…….
    Yeah, Beckett’s gonna fix that staff…
    A-Gone is a savior………
    250 mil+ later……um…….
    Haha.

    • Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:49 pm

      Hardy Har Har…..

  57. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Chuck, here’s your Pappadeaux’ menu. The crawfish platter kicks major ass. I dare anybody under 250 pounds to finish it in one sitting. And, don’t forget the fried alligator. Tastes like chicken. Chewy chicken…

    http://pappaspizza.net/images/dyn/menus/menu_926.pdf

    • TedSpe said, on August 27, 2012 at 8:59 pm

      Do they have a Poo Poo Platter?

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:06 pm

        Ted, if you want one, they can make one up for you.
        With a tropical drink sporting a little umbrella … :)

    • unca_chuck said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:05 pm

      The Lake Ponchatrain fillet is to die for. White wine shrimp sauce. Dirty rice. Unfrickingbelievable.

      Best thing on the menu . . .the crawfish is great though.

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:11 pm

        Why not both in one sitting? Fill up the doggie bag, ha ha.
        I was in Houston 3+ years, and I put on weight for sure.
        Also, there’s a great French Bistro on the West Side. Great bistro food, really flavorful stuff. A glass or three of red Rhone with their lamb shank — outfrigginstanding…

        http://www.bistroprovence.us/

      • Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:47 pm

        Yeah but can they make a good meatloaf?

      • snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:57 pm

        No, and that’s a good thing. Leave that to Marie Callendar’s…

      • Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:19 pm

        What about a nice taco?

  58. snarkk said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    Looks like Stan Kasten is the de facto GM in LA now. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Colletti gets cut loose in the offseason…

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgersnow/la-sp-dn-stan-kasten-dodgers-trade-20120825,0,6867466.story?track=rss

    • Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:46 pm

      Looks that way.

  59. zumiee said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Well, that was a pretty darned entertaining Dodger game tonight.

  60. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    I think I referred to Beckett as their Eric Hacker… although I doubt he’s headed for AAA..there really aren’t a lot of folks here who thought this was a good trade for the Bums. A few seem to, but I’d guess a large majority think it was a steal for the Red Sox. They wanted and demanded prospects plus the salary dump- only the Dodgers fell for it- the Red Sox made a great deal if the salary relief was all they got. Gonzo- no saviour, but certainly an upgrade. Just not enough.

    • Nipper said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:45 pm

      Yeah

  61. twinfan1 said, on August 27, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    Why the “quality start” is often a joke- Beckett pitches a third of an inning more and he has one..

  62. Sportdude said, on August 27, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    I think Bums will not get much from Beckett, but the wildcard is Crawford. he has been hurt a lot, but not old like Beckett. If money wasn’t an issue ( and for LA it isn’t) Crawford could be a very good player again. A clear upgrade over what they had.
    Crawford, ? , Kemp, Gonzales, Ramirez, Either is quit a lineup..

  63. eddacker said, on August 27, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    I guess we know why MEGA BIG FLAVOR SHADY has been too busy to write the blog full time –

    http://www.flavorwire.com/


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