THE San Francisco Giants Blog

An Open Letter To Barry Zito

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on September 2, 2013

zitosunset

Dear Barry–

Well, we are almost at the end of this long and winding road. I truly never thought these 7 years would ever end. I’m not kidding. I believed that your contract had created some type of time/space continuum where time simply stops. You were never going to leave. And yet here we sit on the cusp of your exit……
____________________________________
I’ve written thousands of words about you at my blog–skewering you, hating you, praising you, honoring you….Before writing this thread, I typed your last name into the search box at the Flap. I’ve written 28 threads with your last name in the title. I just went through them all and 5 of them were positive, 23 of them were negative. “You could look it up”. Just type *Zito* into the search box. And those are just the threads with your name in the actual headline. I’ve referenced you hundreds of times in other main threads and too many times to count in the comment section of the blog.
____________________________________
Truth be told Barry, you’ve been one of the hottest topics EVER at my blog. And after your pitiful start today in San Diego, I can’t believe the Giants are going to give you anything other than mop-up duty for the rest of the season. And that’s fine, I really can’t watch any more. I was listening to the radio on the way home and Marty Lurie was trying to get a dialog going about how you would be remembered and what would fans say to you if they got the chance. I liked that idea so I decided to write you this letter. How will I remember you, Barry? I’ve thought about this all day, here goes…..
____________________________________
The first thing I want to say to you is, “thank fucking GOD for August 7th 2012.” That was the day you pitched in St Louis and you guys won 4-2. You pitched well enough to get the win. Something else happened that day. I don’t know if your soul was abducted by the baseball Gods or maybe you made a deal with them or maybe your  mom Roberta had something to do with it. Whatever it was, the team won the last 11 games you pitched that season. And then the post season came and they won the 3 games you started.
____________________________________
The 2013 season began and the team won your first two starts of this season. That’s 16 games in a row that the Giants won where you started the game. It could be easily argued than some of those team wins had something to do with run support and/or nothing that you did to contribute to the win. But regardless, you were part of a string of success that literally saved your legacy from being one of the biggest jokes in professional sports.
____________________________________
Think about it. Those first 5 and a half seasons were rough, man. Jab a fork into YOUR eyes, rough. You popped up with some decent games now and again. You started off the first month and a half of 2010 with a 6-1 record only to have 98% (or more) of the fan base wanting you to disappear forever by the last week of that season. Thankfully, Bochy took care of that for us by leaving you off the playoff rosters. Overall, your first 5.5 years were an abomination. I hated you. I created the concept of *Zito’s Law* and mocked you with it every chance I got (which was almost every one of your starts). A fellow flapper, I can’t remember who, created “ABZ” >>> *Anybody But Zito*. You were a total joke, man.
____________________________________
Then 2012 started and all signs pointed to you sucking worse than ever in that upcoming season. Your spring training was so bad they didn’t even take you to San Francisco, you were left behind to work on your mechanics and ditch whatever that crouching thing was you were doing that you learned in the off season from Tom House. I wrote at least 3 threads prior to the season starting that boldly claimed you were no longer a major league pitcher.
___________________________________
And then something totally predictable happened: you went into Colorado for your first start and you threw a shut out. Yeah, that made a ton of sense….
___________________________________
About half way through the year I noticed you had stopped trying to throw your shitty fastball so often and you replaced it with more cutters–nearly 20% more per start. It became a magical pitch for you and I truly believe it was part of the foundation of your success over those 16 amazing wins in a row. Of course this year you are throwing the cutter about the same amount as last year, only with different results. Vida Blue has said more than once, “his cutter just doesn’t have the bite it had last year.” Where did it go? No one knows…..
___________________________________
I haven’t written much about you this year. I simply don’t have the venom for you that I had for the first 5.5 seasons. What you did against St Louis in Game 5 of the NLCS and against Verlander in Game 1 of the World Series forever neutered me from blasting you in print. Hell, I couldn’t even muster the words to skewer you when the random bar stool fool  would start cursing your name during one of your many pathetic road starts this year. Speaking of those, you couldn’t win even ONE this year? Dude, that was weak.
___________________________________
If someone pinned me down and screamed “AS A GIANT’S FAN, WHAT WILL YOU REMEMBER MOST ABOUT BARRY ZITO!!!!!????!!?” First, I would tell them to get their fucking hands off me and then I would let them know that they’re about to get choked for screaming in my face. But before I committed that aggravated assault felony,  I would say this to them…….
__________________________________
“The bunt”. I could watch you lay that bunt down against the Cards in Game Five 1000 times and never get tired of it. It was perfect. And we don’t win that game without your epic pitching performance and your bunt that scored Blanco. And if we don’t win that game, we aren’t even playing in the World Series that year. So it’s quite easy for me to connect the dots and say without hesitation that we don’t win the 2012 World Series without you. And for that, I will forever honor you as one of the greatest Giants in my lifetime.
___________________________________
But dude, it’s time for you to go. Away. Way far away. As far as a surf board can be safely paddled out into the ocean without you actually getting eaten alive by sharks. This might have been your worst season ever and that’s really saying something considering how bad you were for the first 5.5 seasons. But I’m not a bridge-burner. I wish you safe travels and good luck with whatever you decide to do with your life. When they have the reunion for the 2012 team at AT&T in 20 years or so I will cheer your name as loudly as any name called that day. Maybe the loudest. I’ll clap my hands together so hard they’ll be on the brink of shattering. I’ll never, ever, forget what you did for my team last year.
___________________________________
Sincerely, one of your biggest fans,
Big Flavor
About these ads

169 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. Flavor said, on September 2, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    re-blog from the last thread:
    paulinasia said, on September 2, 2013 at 5:11 pm (Edit)
    Sorry, long post. But over the past few weeks, I have found the discussions here interesting about “what went wrong” this season, and also the statistical analyses from some of the Flap’s resident stats experts. And trust me, all of you are better at stats than I am. I’m a complete qualitative guy, not at all quantitative. But you have inspired me to try to be more quantitative in my own analyses, not just observational and empirical. And James, some of this is related to your repeated assertions that the pitching is mainly to blame, which qualitatively, I just have not been able to fathom. So, in my quest to “learn from the masters”, as they say here in China, I am attempting to quantitatively understand this disaster of a season. Not to try to prove you wrong, James… just to try to understand your thinking, because you seem so sure that the pitching is to blame, when all empirical evidence I have seen is to the contrary, that the (lack of) offense is to blame.

    For purposes of this discussion, I am not concerned with comparisons between this year and last year (or even multiple previous years). I am only concerned with what the hell happened between the end of May, the end of the 1st third of the season (the first 54 games), when the G’s were in pretty good shape (over .500, near the top of the division), despite relatively terrible starting pitching, and the end of July (actually, statistically, thru August 2nd, the next 54 games, the 2nd third), when they had dropped off the planet in the standings. So, by my count, fallible as it may be, here are the stats for wins/losses, runs scored, and runs allowed, for the 1st 54 games, April and May, and the 2nd third (55 to 108 games, June and July, including thru August 2nd) of the season:

    1st third, wins-losses: 29-25. A handful of games over .500 and near the top of the division.

    2nd third, wins-losses: 20-34. And sinking like a stone.

    1st third, runs scored: 243. Runs allowed: 245. Not stellar, especially the pitching. Way too many runs allowed. But the offense compensated for it, and the team was over .500 and very much in contention.

    2nd third, runs scored: 161. Runs allowed: 216. The pitching actually improved, thankfully, almost 30 fewer runs allowed in the 2nd third over the 1st third. But the offense? Whoa. More than 80 fewer runs scored in June/July than in April/May. I’ve seen the stats analyses that the pitching allowed WAY too many more runs than what the offense generated. Um.. yeah… that’s because the offense generated 82 fewer runs in the 2nd third than in the 1st third… The season was over at that point.

    Were those pitching numbers through 108 games stellar? Hardly. But I’m sorry, I just do not see how the pitching can be blamed for the team dropping out of contention, when the offense died in June and July and effectively ended the season. Pitching not up to what we were used to, absolutely. To blame for this train wreck? Hell no.

    Most of us here, I think, have bemoaned the lack of runs or timely hitting. More runs!, we have cried. James, you said a thread or two ago: “If the Giants had 70 more runs scored, they’d still be under .500 with the current staff’s performance” (I assume you meant the pitching staff). Not sure I follow. By my count, to date thru Labor Day, the G’s have lost 21 games by 1 run. Plus another 11 games by 2 runs. Assuming those “70 more runs” didn’t come in, say, 7 bunches of 10, but rather (and more realistically) were spread out over the season, isn’t it probable that a shit-load of those 21 one-run losses and 11 two-run losses would actually have turned into wins? With 70 more runs, you possibly turn half of those 32 “close losses” into wins, and the G’s are near the top of the National League in wins-losses. And our heads would be nodding once again.

    In conclusion, I apologize to you, James, if this “novella” seems like it’s attacking you. It’s not. I really do admire you for your stats acumen. You’re so good at that stuff, that it’s likely you will be able to completely debunk everything I’ve said here. You and I have had our “moments” (I remember some rather testy exchanges about Freddy Sanchez back in 2010), but you and I also were, IMO, the strongest supporters of Belt early on. And I think you and I agree politically, from the limited such discussions here. I would love to raise a glass of (insert here your favorite beverage) sometime with you. But while the pitching has not been great, the lack of offense in the 2nd third of this season is why this season was in the tank by August 1st. In my oh so humble opinion.

    What this means for next year, who knows. I tend to think it means that at least a couple major changes need to be made in the starting 8. The pitching will always be tweaked, year by year, but these guys in the field and at bat, even if they are only one year removed from a championship, clearly aren’t going to get it done again. What would I do? I don’t know. I make about 30k a year teaching business in Asia. I trust Sabean to figure it out. Maybe along the lines of something earth shattering like the Matt Williams trade. Hell, I’m in China, what do I know….. Well, I do know that God is a Girl, and that she loves baseball…
    The End.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on September 2, 2013 at 7:25 pm

      another great post;
      thanks, Paul; wish you were coming to Flapalooza

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on September 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm

        …though I tend to agree with James on our pitching woes; hey, we sucked offensively and defensively, didn’t we, for most of the season?

    • snarkk said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:55 pm

      I was/am a staunch Belt supporter to the extreme, and from the get go. I take umbrage at not being included as same… ;)

      • paulinasia said, on September 2, 2013 at 10:28 pm

        Sorry, Snarkk! You are correct, I remember…

    • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:46 am

      I missed it the first time around. Glad it was reposted…another excellent post by our man in Asia.

  2. twinfan1 said, on September 2, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    good post, craig. as i’ve said about bruce jenkins, i don’t have to agree with all of his columns or comments to consider him a great baseball writer. and while i’ve certainly disagreed with you often, i consider you a great baseball writer in your own right. for what it’s worth, that’s not a compliment i offer lightly.

    • Flavor said, on September 2, 2013 at 7:01 pm

      I’m floored by that actually and I really do appreciate and value that unexpected compliment. Thanks, Twin

      • twinfan1 said, on September 2, 2013 at 7:13 pm

        i guess i’ll skip my counter point on zito ;-)
        now i really do have to get ready for a day of tests for merna tomorrow. she gets regular sonograms and angiograms to monitor possible areas where blockages may occur. i’ll give her a shower tonight- a major undertaking. night all- and good post from paul as well. i’ll add that james is also a commenter whose posts i look forward to.

  3. PawlieKokonuts said, on September 2, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Brilliant stuff, Magnus. I have tended to gloss over the dreadful aspects of Barry Zito’s career. That’s for quirky and personal reasons. In 2009 I saw him pitch and win against the defending World Champion Phillies, in person, at AT&T, on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon. I recall Mr. Zito running hard to first. Safe. It was either a broken-bat or bunt single. It was a weird harbinger of the 2012 miracle hitting you describe. Then on that big weekend against San Diego at the end of 2010, when he walked in two runs to start the game, I went into a year-plus sulk against Barry Zito. But 2012. I’m with you. I will FOREVER be grateful for Zito’s warrior-like stopping of the Cards and then his epic — epic! — brilliance in Game 1 of the 2012 world series, which I witnessed in person. He beat Justin Verlander! It was not supposed to go that way. It CANNOT be underestimated. And as for his hit in that game, I fecking called it. In the bleachers. “Zito is going to get a hit, on the left side of the infield.” So, I too will always love Barry Zito for that and will forgive him all the rest. I could give a shit how much his contract was. Plus, he seems like one very decent human being in real life. Great thread, Magnus.

  4. SanDawg said, on September 2, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Great thread. Pre 2010, I used to regularly lay awake in bed in the middle of the night (I’m not joking) and think about the Giants and what needed to happen for them to become contenders again. The Zito contract by itself ruined many nights of sleep for me. I can’t believe the contract is almost over. I still have to pinch myself that we’ve won 2 rings in that span and Barry played a MAJOR role in Ring 2 as noted above. My brother and I used to have a whole set of “ZitoStart” rules we would apply if we found out he was pitching a game we were attending during those early lean years. One of the key tenets was to get to our seats a good 30 minutes early to have a beer and enjoy the scenery and ambience–as we knew the game could unravel within minutes of the first pitch. I used to like to say that the Zito contract was the worst free agent signing in the history of pro sports–and I believed it. Obviously, last year changed that.
    It has been one hell of a ride. I hope the guy starts on Saturday.

    • Flavor said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:01 pm

      awesome. I did a bunch of *Zito’s Law* threads. Here’s one that loosely followed you and your bro’s *rules*. Back in the day, you had to have rules or a law to make it through a Zito start. lol
      http://oneflapdown77.com/2010/09/13/how-to-avoid-the-dreaded-curse-of-zitos-law/

    • snarkk said, on September 2, 2013 at 10:50 pm

      Dawg, you can’t be serious. Zito cannot, must not, must be prohibited by all that is holy and just — to start the Flapalooza game… ;)

      • willedav said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:44 am

        It’s supposed to be Cain. Enjoy, guys.

  5. Flavor said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Reblogged this on San Francisco 49ers Forever.

    • Flavor said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:18 pm

      mistakenly re-blogged. I was trying to do something on the dashboard and hit the wrong button. Sorry Chuck, delete when you see it on your blog.

  6. barleyfreak said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    “What you did against St Louis in Game 5 of the NLCS and against Verlander in Game 1 of the World Series forever neutered me from blasting you in print.”

    I have selective memory, so I’m going with this. Winning the WS, actually winning that-which-we-always-want-the-Giants-to-win, is so freaking hard to do, that his clutch performance makes up for all manner of sins. For that, I am eternally grateful.

    • blade3colorado said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:56 pm

      Ditto barleyfreak.

  7. blade3colorado said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    Great thread Flavor – I especially liked that you acknowledged Zito’s key role (a number of times) in the Giants winning the playoffs and WS. I’m on record as never blaming him for the contract. In business schools across the country, Zito’s agent is probably celebrated and hailed as one of the best for sealing that deal. Conversely, the anonymous idiot in Giants headquarters will probably end up in the FBI witness protection program if fans ever find out his name.

    By the by, good move in reblogging Paulinasia’s excellent post on what he perceives as happening this season. Good assessment in my opinion.

    • snarkk said, on September 2, 2013 at 9:57 pm

      His name is McGowan. He suffered the exit as managing general partner as a result of the Zito debacle…

      • blade3colorado said, on September 2, 2013 at 10:06 pm

        Was that ever confirmed snarkk? I never heard him take responsibility for it. Not that I am doubting you, I just haven’t found the article where anyone has taken responsibility for admitting the Zito deal was something they proposed and made happen.

      • snarkk said, on September 2, 2013 at 10:15 pm

        I’ve read lots of articles that danced around it and intimated that McGowan was the force behind the Zito move for post-Bonds PR purposes. I’ve never seen anything that stated Sabes was AGAINST it, however. Even today, Marty Lurie on his radio post-game show doing essentially an obituary on the Zito era said McGowan and ownership were behind it, when a caller blamed Sabes….

      • twinfan1 said, on September 2, 2013 at 11:47 pm

        actually, his name is not ‘ McGowan’, it’s ‘Magowan’… as to zito and his great outing against the cards in the post season, it is not dismissive of that outing to remind that that was the *4th* elimination game of the post season. many players came through in those 3 red’s elinination games to even get us to the nlcs- including 3 of the 4 relievers that took over for mr.zito when he failed to get out of the 3rd inning in game 4 against the reds. then there were two *more* elimination games after zito’s game 5 start against st. louis. the truly accurate position is to say that zito’s performance was one of the many without which we would not have reached the world series.

      • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:02 pm

        I have heard and read the same thing (that Magowan was the principal behind the Zito signing…and this ONLY after they could not land a big-time hitter). Regardless, I gave Magowan a free pass for life, just like many of us (me included) did for Zito, when he was the principal behind saving the Giants from moving to Tampa/St. Pete.

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 1:07 pm

        Ross McGowan, the ex KTVU guy.
        He was the one responsible for Zito’s signing. Spelled correctly… ;)

  8. snarkk said, on September 2, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    I’m probably one of the strongest antagonists here about the Zito “era”. Oracle, more so than I, but not by much, I should think. I don’t have mixed emotions about Zito. Not at all. It was a disaster from beginning to end. A mitigated disaster. Mitigated only by his performance in the last half of last year and in the playoffs. Does that make up for the other 90+% of his tenure that sucked balls? No, IMO. To do so assumes that nobody else, in his place, could have performed in 2012 the way he did. $20 million wasted on a worse-than-#5 pitcher for 6 years is a lot of waste — it could have been used on a real #5 and an outfielder, for example. I was man enough to give him props at the time last season for doing well, and do now, even though some of it was from good run support. Yes, that bunt, that game in St. Louis will be forever remembered. It WAS fantastic. The stuff of legend. Still and all, his tenure here was objectively crap. That cannot be denied. 62-79. ERA above 4.6. WHIP of 1.44. That all spells #5 starter at $20 million per. Tons of Giants starters in SF history have better records than that. That’s Wellemeyer territory. It spells DFA after year 1 and year 2 and year 3 and…, IF the gorilla of his contract did not intervene. Again and again. The joke of him having a 4-month long ankle injury starting in mid April 2011 and hiding out in Arizona on rehab is a memory that resonates. I don’t have any animus towards Zito personally. Not at all. If McGowan offered to shovel $126 million at me, guaranteed, I would have said ‘thank you very much”. But, the fact remains, his monster contract was an anvil around this team’s ankles for 6 seasons that it somehow ignored to win it all in 2010. And, somehow, he turned around in 2012 to help it win another WS title. Good-bye Zitman. I can’t say I’ll miss you…

  9. James said, on September 2, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    Paul, when you score 570 runs and you give up 590, you would have to be very fortunate to be at 500, much less have a winning record. That is simple common sense (and simple statistics — your argument about random distribution, in fact). Think about it. You mention 21 losses by one run and 11 games by 2 runs through Labor Day, but fail to note that this covers the entire season, including the months when the offense was performing well. Those extra 70 runs would be distributed over the entire season, too, including games the Giants won handily and those they lost by several runs. The 6-4 win becomes 8-4, and the 12- 1 loss 12-5, the 4-2 loss 4-3, etc. Yes, some of those 1 and 2 run games would have been turned around, but just enough of them to leave the Giants a few games under 500.

    If you pitch in ATT and give up 590 runs over 130 games, your pitching utterly sucks, especially in a year when nobody is scoring many runs. If you score 570 runs over that time, you are doing very well. If you score only 500 at ATT, you are certainly not great, but not nearly as bad as the pitching.

    You mention political affinities, Paul. Yes, left wing big picture, big data, the common good, no bullshit micro analysis that obscures what’s actually happening. Think health care.

    I am fascinated that you guys continue to resist, even after I gave you my Freudian slip story as an olive branch of sorts. I could do some Freudian speculation about the concern over the lack of offense as opposed to defense, but I’ll spare you ;-)

    At the end of the day, I’d prefer to hoist that glass with you. I’m done with this argument. Here’s a quote I’ve used before. It’s from a friend and great poet (you should really check out his writing, Pawlie) and totally a qualitative guy to boot:

    “Let me be a Christian to your Lion
    and put an end to this circus once and for all”

    – from “Four Lectures”
    Stephen Rodefer

    • paulinasia said, on September 3, 2013 at 2:36 am

      Thanks for your reply, James. Yeah, I’ll never be any good at statistical analysis, random distribution, probability, etc. Doing my MBA, I surely would’ve flunked the stats module if not for others in my small group who were good at it (just as some of them would’ve flunked the marketing and HR modules if not for me). So, I was really just looking at it very simplistically; the team was doing ok after 54 games despite bad pitching, and then they tanked in the second 54 games even though the pitching was better. That leaves the hitting as the culprit, in my simplistic world. :-) In the end, the whole season sucks, IMO, no matter what the cause. I think I also will stop looking for the cause of this train wreck and turn the page. Thanks for the discourse… and, keep up those left wing ways, in a world of Fox News, you are needed… Next time I’m back in the Bay Area (January), hope some of us can meet and hoist a few.

      • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:07 pm

        I am ready to quit trying to figure out why the hell our Giants had such a train wreck this year, too. Let us know the specific dates when you will be back in the states, Paul. If you are in NorCal…I would love to meet up with you and tilt a couple.

  10. Nipper said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:31 am

    Zito will play out the season. What else is there to do? Worrying about Zito is worrying about the past. His career with this organization happened and it’s about over. Better concentrate your thinking about the young players, the present and future not the past.

  11. willedav said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:42 am

    The Zito conundrum that I’m sure I posted a few times over the years was always that until he started pitching half way decent for a while, no team was ever gonna take him off Giants hands. And unfortunately, no one did.
    I’ll give him what he did in 2012 and playoffs, but also remember Giants won 2010 without him. As Twin pointed out above there were a lot of guys responsible for winning clutch games, and so many of the games SF won when Z pitched depended a lot on run support and D by the other 8 guys out there.
    Otherwise he was far too often unwatchable for me. Add in having to listen to K and K sticking up for him at all times. I’m sure according Kuip he’ll always be,”a good Giant”…and Kruk will follow with, “a great Giant.” Ugh.

  12. blade3colorado said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:06 am

    If the Giants had given him twice as much money as he actually received, I would still celebrate Barry Zito for what he did in 2012. All was forgiven insofar as I was concerned after his stellar clutch performance in the playoffs and World Series. Equally important, the improbable way the Giants and him performed, coming back numerous times last year . . . well, let’s just say that these memories will never fade and that is PRICELESS in my opinion. I waited over 50 years for a World Series championship and the Giants delivered not one, but two of them. Wow! Barry was part of that, as were ALL the players on the 2010 and 2012 rosters.

    For some of us, other Giants are larger in our minds than Barry. That’s fine. We all have our favorites. They all allowed us to bask. :-)

  13. Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:47 am

    the argument of what could we have spent the $127 million on INSTEAD of Zito doesn’t fly with me. That is a complete unknown–you have no idea if those mythical other players would have brought us 0-1-5 World Series. I know for a FACT we don’t win the 2nd one without Zito since he already won Game 5 against St Louis. And I count WS’s won these days, not how many we could have won with different players who never played for us.

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:18 am

      we also know for a fact that there were 3 previous elimination games in the postseason of 2012. without the performance of many players in those games, the team and zito would never have had a game 5 of the nlcs to even play. that’s also fact, not speculation.

      • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:23 am

        Exactly. And that’s my point. What we could have spent Zito’s contract on (or other players) doesn’t mean anything to me because it’s all speculation. He was critical to our 2nd SF title. Again, no speculation there.

      • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:49 am

        well, that’s nice, or as chuck says- ‘that’s all well and good’. but you have credited zito with getting us to the 2012 ws with precious little mention of the 3 elimination games that preceded his and the fact that many players saved the season by coming thru in those elimination games. in fact, bailing zito out in one of them was also a factor.

    • blade3colorado said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:17 am

      .

    • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:12 pm

      I agree on the whole “could have spent the money here” dialogue. It was well chronicled during that off-season that year all the big bats the Giants chased before signing Zito. And only when it was very apparent they they would not land any of them, only then did Magowan and crew ink Zito. So yeah…I really don’t give a shit on all those “coulda shoulda woulda” spent that 127 mil this way stories. They made their run at all the top bats that year and came up empty.

  14. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:52 am

    The problem I always had with the Zito deal (and the deal wasn’t in response to Bonds’ departure. The Barrys played together in 2007) was that no one one earth wanted him very badly. The Mets were said to be in negotiation with him, but it was in the realm of 5/80 IIRC.

    Why they went whole-hog after him was curious at best. As bad as the Rowand deal turned out to be, it made sense at the time. The Giants needed a CF. Hunter, Rowand and Andruw Jones were the available guys. At the time I thought they’d pass on Hunter as he would be expensive, Jones was a fat bastard looking to break down, and Rowand seemed like the logical choice. Hunter went for 5/90, Rowand for 5/60. Jones was 2/36.

    The point being, at least there was a thought process behind Rowand.It turned out badly. Zito? WTF? He was the highest paid pitcher at the time of the deal. It made little sense in that he wasn’t all that spectacular. 16-10 3.83 ERA in 2006? He was a .500 pitcher after his Cy Young year.

  15. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:57 am

    But yeah, Barry gets his due for those clutch performances in the playoffs last year. I for one thought he’d fold up like a cheap suit. But he came through in the direst of circumstances.

    PS, Done fricking moving for the 2 time in a month. They are picking up the pod tomorrow. Plus I just bought tix to Flapapalooza Scored 3 club level seats for $33.50.

    • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:01 am

      Excellent. I’m assuming u mean 3/$33 each. What section? I’ve been buying them in 203/232/233

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:31 am

      If Chuck got 3 for $11 apiece I may slit my wrists…

  16. Macdog said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:58 am

    We’ll always have St. Louis.

  17. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Besides, Twin, we aren’t talking about the other games. We are talking about Zits and his couple clutch starts. Everyone contributes a lot to each victory, but seeing as Zito has his times where he walks everyone and blows chow all over himself with sickening regularity, the fact that he came through with tough gutty performances is what is A) surprising and B) noteworthy. To understate the shit ut of it.

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:16 am

      well, when it’s said, as it’s been with regularity, that zits saved the season with his game 5 performance, the previous eliminiation games have to be mentioned as well. zito was one of the *many* who saved the season when their backs were against the wall. game 5 of the nlcs was no more vital in getting to the ws than the 3 elimination games that preceded it.

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:36 am

        Well said. Zits deserves credit for game 5. But I think he gets inordinate credit for it, some even absolve the rest of his SF career with it, because nobody expected it — we naturally expected disaster, but got clutch instead. If Cain or Bum throw that game, they don’t get near the credit he does for the same result. Because they threw playoff wins before, and nobody remembers them near as much. I don’t, anyway…

  18. snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:09 am

    We can argue until the cows come home about whether the Giants win either or both of their 2 WS without Zito. They did it in 2010 with zero of his input. In 2012, his input was real. But, if he were never on the team at all, who knows? Maybe they still win 2. Maybe just 2010. Maybe 4 because they used his money to get real players who could hit. It is arguing about karma, about the unknown. We might say that every guy who had one AB or had an assist or farted in the clubhouse on Tuesdays in both WS years was critical, because if he didn’t do what he did, the space/time continuum gets dented and the WS win doesn’t happen. If Zito didn’t choke his start against the Pads on that penultimate game in 2010, maybe Sanchez doesn’t get a triple the next day, win the game, and SF goes on to win it all. All I know is Zito’s time here was disastrous for the most part. I remember when bloggers here were openly rooting to keep Wellemeyer over Zito, and just eat Zito’s contract with 4 years or whatever left. Anyway, it’s way past time to move on from him. Kruk even seemed to agree this morning in a rare moment of homerless truth that Zito’s tenure was a mess, and blamed it mainly on the contract messing with Zito’s head early on. Whatever. Kruk also said this morning he doesn’t see Zito having a scheduled start the rest of the way. Somehow, I see them actually giving him one last start at ATT. Baer will chance a meaningless blowout loss against the feel-good PR hit of a farewell waive after a final 3 2/3 innings and 4 runs. I’ll give Zito this — he’s the best damn $126 million bunter I’ve ever seen…

  19. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:15 am

    This was a great post Big Flavor. Props…

  20. blade3colorado said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Related to what Chuck said in his 10am post – why would Flav mention other players on the eve of Zito’s imminent departure? This is about Zito, not other players and their key role in the 2012 playoffs and World Series (whom Flav has mentioned a gazillion times before).

    Twin you indicated earlier that this was a wonderful post by Flav . . . Why are you adding a “yeah but” to it? It goes without saying that other players contributed to the 2012 championship run. Sheesh, if we are going to reference other potential saviors of this run, why not go all out minutia and mention that Earth wasn’t destroyed by a meteor prior to the start of the playoff run, despite thousands of asteroids passing us daily? ;-)

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:56 am

      i also said i don’t agree with everything even great writers say. the bone of contention is his constant refererences to zito’s game 5 in the nlcs saving the season with barely any mention of the three elimination games that preceded it. one of which we won partly because bochy pulled him in the 3rd. i appreciate that he finally did something towards justifying some of what we rightfully expect of a guy making that kind of money but he’s received far too much credit for pitching well in just a few significant games in his time here- while others who have have contributed as much or more have been figuratively run out of town on a rail..

    • unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:02 am

      Well, for me it was, is, and always will be the absolute surprise that Zito did what he did. I mean, even Bummie his rookie year hitting the playoffs and going lights-out was less surprising to me.

      In the great here-after, I expect to see a reference on high, up there with Robert Johnson selling his soul at the crossroads, stating that Zito committed his mortal soul to Beelzebub for a couple clutch playoff performances.

  21. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:58 am

    Yes, left out the ‘each’; in my post. BTW, we got sec 232. Couldn’t get 3 together, so we’re in row F and H.

    It’ll be my first trip across the new Bay Bridge. Got to get to BP. They’re giving away the Blanco diving catch bobblehead, right? As well as the orange sombrero?

    Tell ya one thing, wouldn’t it be epic to see a real bad call made by the umps, and a sudden tossing of the sombreros onto the field? Reminiscent of photoball day.

  22. Macdog said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:16 am

    My apologies to James for continuing this topic, but like Paul, I did my own little analysis yesterday of what went wrong. And my conclusion? Hey, maybe James is right after all.

    I started at the point when the tailspin began, which was after the peak at 23-15. Since then, the Giants are 38-61. Of those 61 losses, the Giants gave up 5 or more runs 34 times, or 55 percent. That includes a whopping 12 times in which the Giants gave up 10 or more runs!

    In 18 of the losses, the Giants gave up 3 runs or less, or 30 percent. That includes 3 extra-inning losses in which the Giants allowed 3 runs or less in 9 innings.

    Then there’s the 4-run gray area that I’m not sure what to do with, 4 runs being not quite decent pitching but not bad enough to qualify as disastrous. Anyway, there have been 9 games, or 15 percent, the Giants lost giving up 4 runs.

    My own position is that it’s been everything: bad pitching — starters and relievers, an offense that disappeared beginning with the 3 of 4 series loss to the Marlins, and an inexplicably lousy defense. With such a wretched combination, so wonder the Giants’ 38-61 is one of the worst, if not the worst (and I don’t feel like looking it up), records over that stretch in all of MLB.

    The good news? Of those 34 losses of giving up 5+ runs, Zito started 12 of them, and he won’t be back next year. Another 3 were started by Kickham, who clearly showed he wasn’t ready to start at the big-league level, a situation the Giants must make sure to avoid if they want to bounce back in 2014.

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:20 pm

      Nice review, Mac. I think your conclusion that it’s been everything is the one that makes the most sense. The injuries and the breaks also haven’t gone the Giants way this season…

    • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:20 pm

      Surkamp was in there for at least one game too, right?

      • Macdog said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:42 pm

        You’re right! He started the 1st game of the doubleheader vs. the Reds, a 9-3 loss.

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 1:58 pm

      kickham and surkamp will both be in the running for a spot on the staff next year. imo. i wouldn’t be surprised at all if kickham took mijares’ spot and surkamp was the 4 or 5 starter.

  23. PawlieKokonuts said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    James, I like the line from your poet-friend.

  24. Alleykat said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    If Zito paddles far enough out on his surfboard without getting munched by a white shark, he just might find your “Message in a Bottle” ..BF

  25. Irish Kevin said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    Ah yes remembering Barry. or as I will call it remebering the Barry’s. For me Bonds and Zito will always be linked. Zito was signed the year the Giants did not offer Bonds a Contract. I believe their reasons for signing Zito was he was a Cy Young winner and the Giants needed a Super Star to replace Bonds. Well if that isn’t a Godzilla palm plant I don’t know what is. Someone should create and Epic Fail poster of Bonds walking out of AT&T and Zito walking into AT&T High Five ing each other. For me 2012 will be the year Zito came in and did the job he was suppose to have been doing the previous 5.5 years. I just can’t heap praise on someone who finally comes to work and does the job they were hired to do for only 1 year. I will alway cherish the WS. I just don’t put it all on Barry for getting the Giants there. And no I won’t shed a tear as the door hits you in the ass on your way out for the last game of the this season.

    • unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:35 pm

      Didn’t they both wear shirts saying “Ask the Other Barry?” or some shit like that?

  26. chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Flavor – Awesome post. And yeah…there are many different takes on Zito’s contract, what he contributed, what he didn’t do, how the money may have been spent, etc., but I am with you…he gets a lifetime pass in my book simply for what he did in 2012 (and I realize, and agree with Michael on the other elimination games). None of that matters to me…I will always tip my cap to number 75.

    Chuck – very cool on the tix. My tix for the Flapalooza are in 232, too (Row A, seats 3-6).

    It will be my first trip across the new bridge, too. Looking forward to it!

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 1:10 pm

      I heard on radio it opened around 10 pm last night. The inaugural DUI arrest was at 2 a.m. Didn’t take long…

      • unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 1:51 pm

        I’m waiting for the first car to go off of it.

      • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 2:52 pm

        Yeah, it will be some dumbass trying to take a picture or video from the bridge while crossing it. Darwin Award winner all the way….

  27. Macdog said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Twin, I’m sure when the time is right, there will be an Arias thread, an Affeldt thread, a Blanco thread, hell, throw in a Scott Rolen thread, Or since the season will end sooner than we all thought, maybe an entire thread devoted to the great comeback over the Reds in the NLDS, something I can’t imagine anyone here has forgotten.

    But the headline on this thread is about Barry Zito. And when it comes to Zito, three things will always come to mind: the ridiculous contract, the even more ridiculously horrid pitching for much of the length of the contract, and the completely unexpected victory over the Cardinals in Game 5 of the NLCS that allowed the Giants to live for another day . . . and another . . . and another.

    • Alleykat said, on September 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm

      We can throw in 2B as well in 2010..Thank you Brooks Conrad!!!

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 1:49 pm

      i can still read, thanks though.. and i’ve read the dozens of posts crediting zito with saving the team with his game 5 performance against the cards. and if some want to think that that makes up for the rest, that’s their perogative. and it’s my perogative to differ- it’s ludicrous giving this dude a lifetime pass for doing what he was paid a kaziliion bucks to do while trashing guys who have done far more for far less.
      meanwhile, i’ll anxiously wait for the thread crediting the guys whose performances in the first three elimination games saved the season.

  28. Bozo said, on September 3, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Casilla getting hurt sure didn’t help us, but I think I’m going to blame the whole year on Zito and be done with it.

  29. twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    noonan, adrianza, monell, perez, peguero, kontos, dunning, hembree called up.

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm

      I was hoping, not expecting, to see Brown up. Looks like barring a miracle light bulb going off, his hype was way ahead of ability. Monell is a surprise to me, with Hector up. I like that. Must be going to rest Buster a lot, or kick Belt to the bench so Buster can play first. Don’t see the point of Noonan. At this point, he seems to me real close to being decided a non-prospect. Will be interested to see what Hembree’s got, especially if his slider is serviceable…

  30. salty said, on September 3, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Excellent thread BF and lots of well written pov’s guys.

    One thing that is indisputable; no other player has inspired debate quite like Barry Zito. Maybe Bonds and his “alledged” use of PED’s.

    I will always salute his professionalism and his dedication and determination to get it right. His efforts last yr did erase a lot of frustration and cement his place in Giants lore. To me he belongs with Jonathan Sanchez, Aubrey Huff and Edgar Renteria, players who had their struggles but came through when it mattered most. Not sure I’ll cheer as heartily for him as I will for others at the reunion but I’ll be standing and applauding.

  31. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    He’s the Alex Smith of the Giants, Salty . . .

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 2:59 pm

      wow. i’m flabbergasted that kc took zits. what did we get? arthur bryant’s bbq sauce? the royals got screwed…

      • unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 4:10 pm

        Alex Smith may GIVE the Chiefs a case of the zits. 8-8 and the Niners get a 3rd round pick.

        Go Alex.

      • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 4:29 pm

        i’m more concerned with the niners than alex now but they’re pretty happy with him. we’ll see how it goes, they were pretty bad last year but 7-9 to 9-7 seems to be about what most see them finishing. after 2-14 in 2012 they’d be happy to give us a 3rd rounder.

  32. snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Runzler, Tanaka dfa’d to make room on the 40.
    I’m happy for Runzler. He needs a change of scenery. Tanaka at least got a cup of sake in the bigs…

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 3:57 pm

      man, i remember when runzler came up- he had been raced thru the system. and it was easy to see why- the guy was closer material with his 97/98 heat and unhittable slider. he still throws major heat, and i’d be surprised if he didn’t get grabbed up.

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 4:07 pm

        Somebody will pick him up and give him a shot next ST. He’s 28, and was going to be FA anyway, so it’s probably do or die next March/April for the guy…

      • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 4:41 pm

        i don’t think he was to be a free agent until 2017. it’s possible they could get something for him with that favorable contract,

        2010 25 San Francisco Giants $400,500
        2011 26 San Francisco Giants $418,500
        2012 27 San Francisco Giants $483,000
        Earliest Arb Eligible: 2014, Earliest Free Agent: 2017
        Career to date (may be incomplete) $1,302,000

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 5:19 pm

        According to Schulman on his twitter, Runzler is a FA at the end of this season…

      • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 5:50 pm

        well, i went by what baseball reference says. maybe they’re wrong but it’s a pretty reliable site,

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:08 pm

        Well, I dunno who’s right. Whatever. I’ve heard/seen somewhere that Pill is also a FA at the end of this season…

      • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:00 pm

        According to Cots, Runzler is a FA in 2017.

        http://tinyurl.com/nppsykm

  33. twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    1. Angel Pagan (S) CF

    2. Tony Abreu (S) 2B

    3. Brandon Belt (L) 1B

    4. Buster Posey (R) C

    5. Hunter Pence (R) RF

    6. Pablo Sandoval (S) 3B

    7. Joaquin Arias (R) SS

    8. Juan Perez (R) LF

    9. Madison Bumgarner (R) P

  34. snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    From Baggs:
    “Bochy will squeeze Kieschnick, Perez and Peguero in left field but otherwise regulars will continue to start most games in September”. How helpful of Boch to “squeeze” callups into games that are so very meaningful now. Makes sense, since of course the regulars have done so well this year…

    • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 5:49 pm

      Well there aren’t too many OF spots open. Pagan is back and he should play, it’s not like he’s Scoots playing with a deformed finger (he should sit). And Pence plays everyday with that streak going

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:07 pm

        Who gives a crap about Pence having a streak? I think Ripken settled that record. We know what Pence can do if he sat for the rest of the season. As for Pagan, I won’t bore anyone with a rehash of my POV. This is very predictable for what Bochy and the Giants are about. He/they’ve done it before. Callups show up ready to go, then end up sweeping the dugout and playing rock/paper/scissors instead of getting a month of reps against MLB competition. It’s especially dumb since we’re playing for 4th, not the division. Bottom line, I figure management already knows that none of these callups has a snowball’s chance of being a major leaguer, except for maybe Hembree, and he’s no lock. So, give ‘em a spot start here and there, and PHing, and that’s it…

      • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:13 pm

        Well I happen to agree with the team then, I don’t think any of these call ups are prospects either

  35. twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    seeing how pence finishes is very important in determining how aggressively they pursue him. if he takes a dump in september, i doubt they’d even consider re-signing him. i’m all for keeping him if he finishes well but a poor september would make them look elsewhere, imo. he’s been good but not good enough nor consistent enough to sit him as if he’s proved enough. again, imo.

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      You know as well as anyone that the FA pool for OFers sucks this offseason. Pence is among the best of the lot. They don’t have many assets to trade for an OFer, let alone two that they need. Pence has been here now for a year and a playoff run. What will him playing the next 25 games tell them they don’t already know?…

    • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:45 pm

      and he didn’t play that well for the playoff run and the postseason. he has plenty to prove to make him worth the kind of money that the bandbox teams will be throwing at him. but they’re not signing *two* outfielders unless they can get one for a year or two. talk about fear and loathing.

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:09 pm

        They better sign two, because they need two, real MLB quality corner OFers. A platoon in LF isn’t going to cut it, and nobody in the minors is going to take that spot…

      • twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:51 pm

        they need two reliable starting pitchers and a couple middle relievers. if they get that and sign pence or ‘similar’, you and i could handle left field . i was going to give chuck the lefties but i like the cut of your jib lately.

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:32 pm

        I’m right handed. Kind’uv a Posey hitter. You know. Pull the middle inside pitch for the dinger, go to right center with the outside pitch for a ringing double. Definitely MVP level stuff. You can come in for me when I pull a hammy. Which will be when I start digging to catch the first gapper to left in my first game…

  36. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    Pence pisses me off to no end. He can’t lay off pitches 3′ out of the strike zone. He hits the ball hard occasionally and drives in runs, but I just don’t get why he ever sees a strike. Ever. And he’s the best option? I get it, but it still makes me wonder.

  37. Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Recently, San Dawg suggested it would be cool to see Zito pitch the Flapalooza game–I agree with him. With the Giants now totally out of it my interest in Flapalooza 3.0 is going to be on watching Pawlie get interviewed on Knbr pre game at the public house, firing back several rediculously priced beers and mingling behind the glass with Flappers I know and those I’m meeting in person for the first time. I could give a shit about the outcome of the game. Why not watch Zito’s final FINAL start for the Giants? That would at least be mildly interesting for me and I would cheer him loudly if he pitched well–

    • James said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:16 pm

      I think SanDawg’s sensibilities are completely on target. I also appreciate hearing your vision for the evening. Mrs.James will not be joining us.

      • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:07 pm

        I’m going to send out an email to everyone confirmed or close to confirmed. Generally, I can tell you we will start gathering around 1-2 pm and let chaos ensue from there. email me just so i have your addy though I’m sure it’s somewhere in my inbox.
        bigflavor77@gmail

  38. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    The good news is Cainer looks to be the starter for Flapapalooza.

  39. zumiee said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Here’s some kudos.
    Kudos to BF for the awesome main post today.
    Kudos to other Flappers for cool posts today.
    Kudos to Barry Zito for 2012. When the national media was LOLing all over itself when Bochy announced that Zito was starting against Verlander in Game 1 of the World Series, Zito never stopped believing he could get the job done.
    And Kudos to Flappers who recommended that I watch all the seasons of “Breaking Bad.” I just finished watching Season 1, and I gotta say- terrific first season, and it had more humor than I was expecting. A lot of it was DARK humor, but still surprisingly funny.

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:17 pm

      Good job, zum. You won’t regret sticking with BBad. You ain’t seen nuttin’ yet; seasons 3 and 4 get pretty hairy, in fact season 4, IMO, easily has the best episodes of the whole series….

      • zumiee said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:25 pm

        Yeah, great shows like “Breaking Bad” show the advantage that a TV show can have over movies. The ability to take their time to develop storylines and character relationships, and evolve characters. Very well done in this show. I’m greatly looking forward to seeing the other seasons. Thanks for the recommendation.

  40. twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    this is not a zito slam, it’s a serious question… i’ve thought that he’d get a farewell start at home but he’s pitched so poorly for so long, it seems that it could prove more embarassing for him than anythiing else. could be a tough spot for bochy, too. a quick hook if he get’s in trouble or try to let him work out of it and end up letting him give up 8 ? i honestly don’t know what they’ll do with him the rest of the way and what would be best. even though don’t like him i understand that many fans and the organization do like him. and i do appreciate what i know of him as a person. i imagine that management doesn’t know how his last days will be handled, either. it’s a toughie.

  41. zumiee said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    “It’s especially dumb since we’re playing for 4th, not the division”

    Snarkk, you’re also the one talking about the need to avoid a first to worst collapse.
    I’t a tough call for Bochy on how much to sprinkle in the young’ens, and still win some games to avoid the first to worst scenario, which is a big deal to a lot of the fans, I think.

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:22 pm

      I think the two goals are doable, zumiee. Ending in 4th isn’t climbing Everest without oxygen. I’m not saying write up a daily roster of nothing but SF Grizzlies. I am saying we don’t need to see Pence and Pagan play every game so we can only “squeeze” a bunch of OFers on the bench into a game here and there for the odd AB. Perez offered some good spark when he was up earlier. Peguero’s got speed. Even if these guys aren’t viable MLB starters, maybe one will show that he wants to take a 25th spot next season…

      • zumiee said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:27 pm

        Good point. It’s not like the regulars have been tearing it up all season.

      • James said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:30 pm

        OTOH, Snarkk, you were game for big changes to the team, which is cool. I think Sabes and co. should be watching very closely how the regulars do, especially since none of the call ups excite.

      • zumiee said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:32 pm

        Earlier in the season, I was calling for Kieschnick. Sheesh, I’m eating crow on that one. He’s basically an almost zero on the Excite-o-meter.

      • James said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:34 pm

        Zumie, no one has been tearing it up, but if they play to their overall season numbers in Sept., they will score a fair share of runs. No one has really played well below expectations, except Pablo. i want to see if they give us another June or an April/May.

      • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:25 pm

        Zumiee, you may be right about Kiesch. He looks like a non-candidate for a spot on next year’s 25. But, it’s worth knowing that, isn’t it? And, you can’t know with these AAAA+ type guys unless your give ‘em enough time to prove themselves (un)worthy. I look at that as an opportunity in the balance of a bad season…

  42. zumiee said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    In the category of awful TV shows- the winner is “Under the Dome.” Another hilariously bad episode last night. Seriously, is the show actually TRYING to be this bad on purpose? The unintentional comedy hit of the summer.

  43. zumiee said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    I loved this review of “Under the Dome” that I saw online. The reviewer wrote:
    “The writing and acting on this show is so crappy, that I’m now believing that the dome is actually a giant upside-down toilet bowl.”

  44. PawlieKokonuts said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    I see Dan Runzler was DFAed; kind of surprised.

  45. twinfan1 said, on September 3, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    night all.

    • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:11 pm

      take care, Twin. Nice to see you post so often recently. As much as we disagree on some stuff you know I love to see you posting here, and I always respect your opinions even if it doesn’t come through all the time in written comments……

  46. Alleykat said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Well I still want Monell to get a good shot down the stretch.But Bochy won’t allow it. He does not play youngster’s,even in a loss season which burns me up.
    You can’t evaluate talent or lack of,if all the callups rot on the bench.Shit ‘look how most of us “BITCHED” about how he handled Buster’s 1st callup.He freakin rotted on the bench so Big Titty could keep playing. Boch plays his own guys till they finally turn into Aaron Rowland’s and the light bulb finally kicks in to the org that their toast.Same with Randy Winn and his stellar 2 fucking HR’s in his last season in 550 +AB’s Geez 1 HR every 225 AB real impressive from “Any outfielder” NOT!!

    • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:15 pm

      Monell is the one guy I’d like to see play more than the “squeeze the youngsters in” approach. Kruk made a good point about him, he’s a dead pull hitter and that could play real nice down the right field line at AT&T. Of course, he’s still got to hit the baseball and what I’m worried about is that he’ll be flailing away at everything just to try to impress management—lots of young hitters without a starting job do this, it’s a fairly a predicable thing

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:25 pm

        I heard the Mets announcers talking about September callups yesterday on the local radio. They quoted Terry Collins saying that March and September stats are pretty much not to be believed. Don’t feed into them, was their point. They added that only 25 guys should be available for any given game; compared it to a hockey scratch lineup, whatever that is.

      • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:53 pm

        I don’t see why Sept stats are *not to be believed*. It’s not like it’s spring training. March is the time for the vets to bang chicks and get their tan on. The kids get to swing at balls that don’t break in the desert. Sept is still all about major league baseball played in major league parks. The call ups are dwarfed by the real MLB players, unlike in ST with all the split squad BS…..

  47. willedav said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Snarkk, if you are dead set on getting 2 OFs, then why even bother looking at Kiesch? Pagan stays plays CF and leads off. In your scenario, Perez Pegs and K are fighting for scraps as 4th and 5th OF, since I’m assuming you don’t want to see any more of Blanco. I’d like to see Pegs in RF just to get his feet wet, because…
    I’m not a huge fan of paying $15 mil for Pence. I just wonder what else is out there in possible trade…even if Romo or Sando were part of the deal. I don’t think the FA bats like Choo or Ellsbury are into coming here so Sabes is gonna have to give up something to get a quality stick.
    And if Hector and Monell can handle the pitching staff, then Posey plays somewhere else, like 3b or LF. Everyday.

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:39 pm

      Well, willie, I am pretty dead set on getting 2 OFers. I don’t think this team can compete with a platoon of sub-par dudes in LF. The pitching has to be dominant for that, and it won’t be anymore. As for Blanco, I don’t really want to see him, but we probably will see him and the three you mention as competitors for the bench 4th or 5th OFer. Since the FA list of OFers is so sparse, your idea of a trade is interesting, except what do we have to give up — except Panda? Belt is showing he can play, so I think he’s out of the trade picture now, plus he’s not due to make big money anytime soon. UR right, Choo or Ellsbury are long shots here. The wild card is catcher. If Hector and somebody can handle the pitching, you’ve got Posey to play somewhere. All of that points to Panda getting traded…

      • willedav said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:01 pm

        And I like Sandoval, but if Sanchez and Monell can play at this level, Posey covers his spot backed up by Arias.
        Or he takes over LF, but either way his bat is in the LU every day.
        I also think SF could live without Romo, even tho I like him a lot. Re-sign Lopez, Affeldt comes back healthy and isn’t allowed near the hamburger slicer, plus Casilla and maybe Hembree is finally ready.
        In that case, one stick and a proven SP to cover one half of 4/5 spot are what’s at top of the shopping list..

  48. Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    The newest chump pitcher to dominate our shitty, pathetic LU: Robbie Erlin. Sounds about right. Bumgarner getting fucked in the ass again by our limp offense…..

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:00 pm

      who knew that limpness could have such cogency?

    • willedav said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:07 pm

      I don’t buy the argument that the pitchers are f-ed because the Giants don’t score. Your job is to be better than the other guy and do what you can to win the game. If your team don’t score you can’t let the others do it.
      This game was tied until Bum gave up a 400 ft rocket to dead center and then another base hit to score another run by a guy at bottom of the LU.
      The pathetic LU just bailed his ass out by tying the game up and first thing he gives up another rocket to Venable, whom he struck out earlier.

      • Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:42 pm

        Pitchers give up runs, it’s absurd to expect them to throw shut outs every game

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:30 pm

      Robin Erlin sounds like a Canadian figure skater at the Winter Olympics …

  49. willedav said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    And hey I give Bum a lot of credit for working his way out of it. That was nicely done.
    But, fair or not, I don’t buy the crying over the lack of run support one bit, and I never have.
    Your teammates get you a run or two, hey if you want to win, then don’t give up no more than that.
    Abreu is not winning himself more ABs with that noise.

  50. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Well, they are human. They can’t pitch shutouts every time. Teams will hit and score against the best of pitchers. The hitting has to be accountable for their share of the mediocrity

  51. Flavor said, on September 3, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Crazy Horse Cycle thoughts?

  52. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Belt time…..

  53. salty said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Have we ever beat Street?

  54. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    Good wood there.

  55. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Hector tiempo

  56. chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    You cannot hang it on the pitchers or hitters exclusively. And I agree that you cannot expect a pitcher to throw a shutout every time. But I sure as hell think you can expect a hitter to hit more frequently with RISP than the likes we have seen this year.

    Can Hector do it here? Giddy up…

  57. chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    And the beat goes one…fucking pathetic…

  58. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Well, I’ve been on the hitting has been shitty for 3 months bus for a while now. Situational crap. Fundamentally shitty play.

  59. Rooster said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Ricky Nolasco since the Dodgers picked him up July 6th : 10 starts, 6-1 record, 2.20 ERA, 163 ERA+, 1.060 WHIP. Obviously Nolasco by himself was not going to change much for the Giants this season but came across this article from June 25th – interesting perspective from just a little over two months ago considering what we know now :

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1684576-giants-must-beat-nl-west-rival-dodgers-in-ricky-nolasco-trade-sweepstakes

    • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:26 pm

      Fuck Nolasco and Fuck the Fucking Dodgers…who gives a rat’s ass…

  60. chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    snarkk – re: your posts wanting two OFers.I can see it, but think it unlikely. I agree with Michael about the team needing two starters and a couple of relievers, and believe those pieces will take precedence/priority over a 2nd OFer. Right or wrong…that’s what I expect to go down. And I think the possibility of Pablo being dealt as slim (think it was Willie who mentioned it as a way to solve the two OFer dilemma).

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:31 pm

      Well, Chi what are we going to do? Sign Pence for 4 for $60M, then platoon in LF with two AAAA guys? I’ve seen that sort of LF noise this year, and it suxxx…

      • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:01 pm

        I’m not saying it doesn’t (or wouldn’t) suck, but unfortunately, I think that (platoon) is more a possibility than a solid starting OFer in LF. And I don’t usually doom (and not really dooming here…just thinking more realistically what I believe will happen). I hope like hell I am wrong.

  61. snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Yep, that damn lousy pitching. We got Bum his 2 runs. Shoot, since the AS break, in his 9 starts we’ve gotten a total of 13 runs — that’s a healthy 1.44 runs per game for him. What the hell else does he want — 3 ?…

    • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:05 pm

      Absolutely fucking pathetic…I know it has been debated seven ways till sunday, but I think the hitting (or lack thereof), especially not being able to get the key knock with RISP has been more a problem than the pitching (at least of late).

  62. snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Pagan went wild this game on base 3X, and we STILL couldn’t score him. Emphasizes why we need some changes next year…

  63. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    Saw the end but that was it. Fucking c-horse leads off with a triple and dies there? Christ on a bicycle. 11 lob? 2 runs on 11 hits??? I’m glad I missed it. So you think you can fucking dance is much easier on the nerves. And that 4th quarter of the last Niner preseason game was pretty cool. Yeah, I’m reaching.

  64. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Hem fee looked good though.

  65. unca_chuck said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    Fucking iPad. Hem rese hem rese. Hem rese he breve he be

    He brew Hembree

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 10:55 pm

      Whoever he is, yeah, he looked pretty good in his debut…

  66. chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    I thought it was cool that Murph doled out 38 to Hembree. I like what the kid showed tonight. So, if he is hot down the stretch and kicks ass in ST, is Romo expendable?

    • snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:34 pm

      I dunno. If Hembree can get it done as closer, I’d like Romo back in the 8th as the RH set up with Affeldt. Or vice versa with Hembree as the RH set up. That would be a pretty tough 8th and 9th shut down combo…

      • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:38 pm

        Agree. I have just seen quite a few Flappers mention him as potential trade bait. I like Romo a lot and would hate to see him go. He had a really cool spot in the latest “Inside the Clubhouse – Homegrown Giants.”

  67. snarkk said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    I think we need some encouragement. Hope you guys are dog people, some cute pics here.
    http://www.break.com/pictures/dandg-3-nice-swimsuit-2506857
    http://www.break.com/pictures/dandg-3-pillows-2506849
    G’night Flappers…

    • chipower9 said, on September 4, 2013 at 7:44 am

      WOOF!

  68. SanDawg said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    I was sitting right behind the Padre dugout and yeah, Hembree looked damn good. It was cool seeing Hector flip the game ball after the 3rd out to Murph who then congratulated Hembree.
    Kinda funny that Runzler’s tenure with the team ran out roughly the same time as Zito’s. One of my first posts on the blog–back when Runzler was a hot prospect, was to propose the Giants packing the two of them together to someone for a warm body. Basically saying, we’ll give you our top prospect if you take Zito and his contract off of our hands.
    Watching Bum bat from that close was a hoot. The high leg kick, the big cut, and the fact that he carries himself up there like he’s the second coming of Jose Canseco is pretty entertaining.
    I also learned a lesson tonight–be careful when you include Big Flavor in a group text conversation!! You might think you’re playing soft toss and then he’ll unleash a Sam McDowell fastball at your earhole!

    • chipower9 said, on September 3, 2013 at 11:36 pm

      Very good stuff, San. It’ll be cool if Hembree can do that on a regular basis. And as is usually the case, most guys who hit in HS as pitchers (as MadBum did) don’t carry that over to the majors. The dude likes to take his hacks. I’ve seen him flat tattoo some balls…

  69. Nipper said, on September 4, 2013 at 6:44 am

    Where’s Willie D?

    • Nipper said, on September 4, 2013 at 6:44 am

      The alarm clock must be ringing!

  70. willedav said, on September 4, 2013 at 7:33 am

    I think Baggs mentioned Romo around waiver time, as being the guy who would attract the most attention in a trade. I think that’s true, and hopefully SF could survive without him. Love to have one of those “I only look illegal” shirts with his face on it tho.
    Any word on Posey? I can’t watch post game stuff.

  71. chipower9 said, on September 4, 2013 at 7:51 am

    Well, as snarkk said late last night (and I agree), if Hembree (through what we see rest of this year, and ST next year) looks like he may be a viable option to close, I would rather see Romo back in his set-up role for us. I think that would be more valuable than what they would potentially get for him in a trade.

    Posey had the following to say about his nail (we used to grill Chris Brown…ouch…about missing games, and attributing it to a “hangnail”):

    “I didn’t really even try to grip the bat,” said Posey, who estimated half the nail separated from the nail bed.

    Reports are that he has not been ruled out to play the finale in Dago, today. And what the hell is up with a 3:40 start time today???

  72. chipower9 said, on September 4, 2013 at 8:00 am

    If you have not read it already, here is a nice little read on Hembree:

    http://tinyurl.com/p8vnrnf

  73. willedav said, on September 4, 2013 at 8:13 am

    Unfortunately, the rooster does have a lot to crow about, including f-ing Nolasco. He has a 2.27 ERA in 11 starts for the Dogs, and is at 3.26 for the season. That is in addition to top of rotation 3 guys, Kershaw Greinke and Ryu that have numbers equal to or better than hard luck Bum, SF best by far. Even Nolasco is more than a run better than either Cain or Lincecum and 2 full runs better than Vogs. Ouch. Unless you get return to form from Cain and pick up at least one solid SP LA pitching is gonna be hard to match.
    2010 and 2012 proved (to me at least) that SF with good pitching (and D) could beat teams with good hitting, whether it was Phils, Texas, Reds, Cards or Tigers.

    • blade3colorado said, on September 4, 2013 at 8:38 am

      Nolasco hasn’t pitched a really bad game since July 24th against the Blue Jays. Prior to yesterday’s start (which he won against the Sherpas), he has been 6-1, 2.20 ERA since joining the Dodgers. One of the keys to his success has been the effectiveness of his slider, particularly with two strikes. He probably will continue to pitch well, especially in LA, which is a pitcher’s park.

  74. chipower9 said, on September 4, 2013 at 8:55 am

    I am not saying that Nolasco has not been good since joining the Bumbinos…I was just stating that I really don’t give a rats ass, especially when it is coming from a troll.

    I think we all get it…pitching, pitching, pitching. Oh, and a timely hit with RISP, solid D, and you are probably going to win more than you lose.

    • blade3colorado said, on September 4, 2013 at 9:11 am

      Agree Chi . . . Chickenshit (or Rooster) acts like we have our heads in the sand regarding his fucked up team and the game in general. Fuck him and other trolls that come to the Flap for no other reason, then to rub our noses in their bullshit chatter and/or educate us on what’s going on. All of those tools need to create their own fucking blog in my opinion.

      • chipower9 said, on September 4, 2013 at 10:21 am

        Hehe…not sure I could say it any better than that, Steve. All I can say is that I hope the Bums get their asses HANDED TO THEM in the first round of the playoffs. Looking forward to seeing you (and meeting other Flappers for the first time) on Saturday. Should be a kick-ass day!

  75. blade3colorado said, on September 4, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Yeah, I’m looking forward to seeing ya all too!

  76. […] front office, and coaches from Richard Dyer at TheGiantsCove.com.   An open letter to Zito from OneFlapDown77.com.   Please send us an email to support@SFGiantsBaseball.net if you would like to submit a blog […]


Comments are closed.

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 452 other followers

%d bloggers like this: