THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Benoit, Ortiz, Hunter Combine for an Incredible Moment in Time

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 14, 2013

Having zero emotional interest in either of the remaining AL teams, I’m struggling to rank the context of last night’s grand slam by David Ortiz in the overall history of baseball. That has to rank as one of the top, if not THE top, post season moments ever. And if Torii Hunter, one of the best guys in the game, makes that near impossible catch, would that count as the best catch in post season history? With apologies to Mr. Mays, I think it would be a legitimate question.

And here’s another question: if he DOES make that catch and still tumbles over the wall, is it an out or a home run? I think there’s a rule that you have to come back to the field with the ball so if he threw it back into the field of play from the dugout it wouldn’t count as an out. I’m not sure of this though. There was a similar play that happened 20 years ago at Fenway with Jay Buhner (I think)……..Just went and checked youtube. Here it is:

And the cop celebrating wildly in the background will be an imagine that will crystalize this as an iconic moment in post season history.

cop

Anyway, you don’t have to be a Red Sox fan to get goose bumps watching that play…..

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104 Responses

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  1. unca_chuck said, on October 14, 2013 at 7:29 am

    It’s an out, but the runners advance one base if you leave the playing field catching the ball.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 14, 2013 at 7:31 am

      Nevermind. I reread the post. I’m not sure what the deal is. Most of the time guys that fall into the stands are more concerned with showing the ump they caught the ball and not continuing the play.

  2. twinfan1 said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:44 am

    if he had caught it it would have been an out, over the fence or not not. he would have to catch it before touching the ground beyond the fence… since it would have been the third out, the inning is over- it’s only if there were less than 2 outs when he made the catch that runners would advance or that he would have to to come back to the field with the ball.
    in short-if he tumbled over the wall and caught the ball without touching the ground in dead ball territory it would been the third out, no hr, 5-1 tigers.

    • Flavor said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:47 am

      If he disappears from play how can the umps be sure he caught the ball?

    • twinfan1 said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:56 am

      what i gave are the rules applying to the situation had he caught the ball. obviously the umpire or umpires would have to rule that he caught it and there are replays on home runs.

  3. Flavor said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:46 am

    It was almost too much effort. He slightly over ran the ball…

  4. willedav said, on October 14, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Today is 14 October and league champ series have played 2 games. Even if the Series started a week from now, and I can’t imagine TV powers that be would have game 1 on sunday, baseball will wind up stretching to dang near end of the month.
    Considering when pitchers and catchers first report that means 8 full months of baseball for those still in it. Maybe 2012 did have a negative effect on Posey and others on the team–maybe SF caught Verlander at the right time last year and he worked harder off season to stay stronger post season this year. Dunno if any of this is true, but I bet Miguel Cabrera wishes season was about a month shorter.
    Nowadays a lot of the bigger Latin stars are contractually forbidden from playing winter ball in their home countries, and a lot of these guys are making so much $$ there isn’t much of an incentive. In the book “Eastern stars” the locals of san pedro de macoris complained that likes of hometown hero Robinson Cano weren’t allowed to play and that others were attracted by the Santo Domingo bigger moneyed teams.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 14, 2013 at 9:16 am

      That would fly if Detroit wasn’t a far as they are. I can see a little bit of it with Posey and all the rehab he went through to get ready, but the delayed effect is 1.5 years?

  5. zumiee said, on October 14, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Bad game management by the Tigers, or bad bullpen alignment or something. That was a moment screaming for a LOOGY, the whole reason LOOGY’s exist. And the Tigers bring in their righthanded closer, because he’s the closer, doggone it. The Giants would have had Lopez or Affeldt pitching in that situation. I have no idea what the Tigers LOOGY situation is, but it was lacking last night.

  6. Macdog said, on October 14, 2013 at 9:22 am

    Flav, here’s another cool pic of the cop: http://athleteswag.lockerdome.com/media/109954300

  7. Alleykat said, on October 14, 2013 at 9:44 am

    It would be an out till that Boston Cop uses his night stick on Hunter and gets the ball,then it’s a HR.Possesion is 9 tenths of the law….:-)

  8. twinfan1 said, on October 14, 2013 at 9:53 am

    lhers had a .194 ba against benoit and leftites had it just 1 hr against him in 139 abs. the only available ‘loogies’ were coke , who hadn’t pitched in almost a month and who lefties had hit .299 against., and rookie alvarez 1-5 5.82. .265 lhers baa. leyland had already used smyly earlier in the inning.bottom line- best reliever, closer in crucial situation, best against lhers, benoit was the correct choice. imo.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 14, 2013 at 10:05 am

      where z is right is that the tigers shoud have and could have traded for a reliable lh reliever at the deadline. leyland did the best with what was availble to him.imo.

  9. snarkk said, on October 14, 2013 at 10:30 am

    As a baseball fan, that HR last night was an exciting set of circumstances, due to the ALCS nature of it. The East coast hype machine is in full overdrive on it. But, it didn’t decide the Pennant winner. I’ll tell you an HR way cooler to me. Oct 23, 2010, Philadelphia, NLCS. Top 8th, 2 outs, Ryan Madson pitching for Philly. 1st pitch of his AB, Uribe hits that HR to right that is the winning run for the Giants pennant…

  10. James said, on October 14, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Don’t know if anyone cares, but

    http://www.sfgate.com/community/announcements/

    Not sure how far back comments go, wether or not they’re archived elsewhere etc.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 14, 2013 at 3:10 pm

      mine go as far back as november of 2012.

  11. unca_chuck said, on October 14, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    I always dug Renteria’s home run, one of my faves, in game 5 vs Texas for the mere fact that Buck sounds SO fucking disappointed about it. And i was fairly shocking.

    http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=12948407&topic_id=14873508

    • twinfan1 said, on October 14, 2013 at 2:58 pm

      chuck, i agree about edgar’s -and snark, ditto as to juan’s . of course, the most epic hrs in postseason history were those of mazeroski and joe carter- carter’s was the only come-from-behind walk-off home run to end a world series and maz’s was the only walk-off home run in Game 7 of the ws.
      but geez, that moment last night was special in so many ways, it merits all the hype, imo. one of the great sluggers and one of the great defenders. awesome moment.

  12. paulinasia said, on October 14, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Agree, Michael, about those other epic HRs… and also about Papi’s HR. I’m for the Sox in this one (I still just really don’t like this Tiger team and its arrogance, so, hey, pile it on), but even if I wasn’t, that was *one of* the best LCS moments in history, Sox fan or no Sox fan. And MacDog, that photo of the ump with his arms in the air, and Hunter going all legs-up.. great pic. Arms and legs in the air ended up spelling a “W” for Boston… :-) If I was a die-hard Sox fan, I’d blow that fucker up and hang it on my office wall…

    • zumiee said, on October 14, 2013 at 7:37 pm

      It’s the baseball equivalent of “getting posterized” by the opponent. :)

    • paulinasia said, on October 14, 2013 at 7:41 pm

      Sorry, not ump…. cop… I knew that…

  13. paulinasia said, on October 14, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    And Chuck, thanks for posting that link to Edgar’s HR, haven’t seen that in awhile. Watching it, it feels a little odd to see Edgar and Cody… Burrell… Uribe… Franchez…. Man, that was only 3 years ago, but it felt like watching something from the Hall of Fame archives from days gone by. I guess a lot has happened in only 3 years. Including another championship….

  14. zumiee said, on October 14, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Unless the Cards win the World Series, I’ll continue to think of Beltran as a Choke Artist.

    • James said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:05 pm

      He’s a way better post season player than this guy:

      http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=mayswi01&t=b&post=1

      • unca_chuck said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:48 pm

        It was juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a little bit harder for Mays to reach the playoffs than Beltran. Which is why playoff records are meaningless.

      • James said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:52 pm

        Yes, they are meaningless. This guy had a little more success

        http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=mantlmi01&t=b&post=1

        but I don’t think he was that much better than Mays, if he was at all.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 9:02 am

        maybe zumiee just meant that beltran is no mark ellis ;-) chuck- james’ post was simply factual, i’d be more interested in a rationale that makes one guy a choker because his team doesn’t win the world series. as to those post season numbers being ‘meaningless’, that’s poppycock. i think(hope) that what you and james meant to say is that they’re meaningless in making a judgement on the player’s overall worth. but playing well in the postseason is hardly meaningless. zumiee is a smart guy, he must have been playing a sly joke on the forum with the beltran remark,

  15. twinfan1 said, on October 14, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    this guppy isn’t biting on any of that- good night, guys.

  16. Macdog said, on October 14, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Paul, here’s a story on the photog and how he got that great picture:

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304330904579135973520797720

  17. snarkk said, on October 14, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    As for Zito’s ad, OK, classy I suppose.
    But, instead of 63-80 with one good season and post season and a good-by ad, I rather have had 80-63 and everything else without the ad…

    • James said, on October 14, 2013 at 11:04 pm

      I’d have been ok with 63-80 plus the ad, if he’d publicly confessed to losing his faith.

  18. Nipper said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:16 am

    A better ad would have been “Sorry for being such a piece of crap! Yes I was overpaid most of my Giants career but my bank doesn’t mind. The checks keep coming….coming ….coming….Yes I’m a very lucky guy!”

    • salty said, on October 15, 2013 at 9:07 am

      I’m guessing PR wasn’t your line of work, Nipper. ;)

  19. zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 9:27 am

    My Beltran remark was kind of in response to one of the pundits calling Beltran one of the greatest post-season players ever. One of the other pundits challenged that by saying ‘how can you be considered one of the greatest if you didn’t win a championship?’ Or even get to the World Series. I think that’s a legitimate point. As for the Mays comparison, Willie won a ring in ’54, and went to World Series game 7s in ’62 and ’73. What’s Beltran done except help blow a 3-1 game lead against the Giants last season? As he helped botch the game last night, it came to my mind again. I guarantee you if the Cards lose this series, the Card fans will be raising the question, if they haven’t already.

    • zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 9:30 am

      Yeah, I’m a little tainted in my perspective by his flop performance for the Giants in 2011. And yeah, he ended up with good numbers by the end of the season, but we’ve had that debate before, and I’m sticking with ‘flop.’

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:04 am

      the part of your statement that’s a tough spin is where you and any ‘pundit’ can put the choke label on a player because his team didn’t win the ws. and your comment didn’t include getting to to ws- you said he would be choke artist if the cards didn’t win it. but whatever, you’ve just made a lot of great sf giants choke artists by that definition. and it’s interesting how selective you are- you’re the ‘clutch hitter’ dude- beltran is 4 for 5 with risp in the postseason this year, with 8 rbi. and he was certainly most responsible for winning game 1, yet you totally ignore that performance. it maybe overboard to call him one of the greatest postseason performers ever, but not as absurd the ‘choke artist’ label.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:42 am

      All these pundits are quick to point out championships (or lack thereof) as the benchmark by which to judge players. Frankly, it’s bullshit. Team sports dictate that you need more than one guy to carry the load. You need a team.

      Is Danny Gladden better than Ken Griffey Jr. for having won a championship? Of course not, but many judge that way. Beltran? Who cares? He did come here with seemingly an aloof attitude of ‘I’ll never hit here’ but then he got hurt, and there went the season.

  20. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 9:44 am

    All these players getting butt-hurt over this stuff is crazy. Don’t like it? Drill him in the ribs. Or get him out.

    Sure, it’s childish and juvenile shit from Puig, but the kid can play. If you don’t like his game, do something about it other than whine.

    • Nipper said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:03 am

      Yeah …… he’s a kid from another country.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:27 am

      beltran’s remarks weren’t all ‘butt-hurt’. he made reasonable and not unkind comments about puig’s antics.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:40 am

        “I don’t think he’s a bad kid. He just doesn’t know,” Beltran, the Cardinals’ composed star, said about Puig. “He still thinks he is playing somewhere else. He has a lot of passion, no doubt. He’s got great ability. With time, I think he will learn to be more calm.”

  21. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Sure they were. With time, and a few fastballs to the ribs, he’ll ‘calm down’ that is. ‘He still thinks he’s playing somewhere else.’? In other words, play like you left the Caribbean. This isn’t banana ball.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:58 am

      fine, i’ll interpet it-‘this is the big leagues, kid, act like it’. btw, donnie was annoyed by puig, as well. he was just careful not to get the puigie hound all butt hurt- after all, donnie doesn’t finish the year without puig. but donnie was less than thrilled that puig didn’t run out of the box. and while the choke artist label is being thrown around- the bums lost the first two games by one run-and puig was 0-10 with 6 k’s. a good case can be made that the bums would be up 3-0 except for his horrendous two games.

  22. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:49 am

    If Wainwright said it, he’d be labelled a racist.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 11:25 am

      not even close to the same, beltran came out of the carribean, as well. what’s totally fucking absurd are the commenters having a problem with mere words, yet advocating physically hurting the guy.

  23. Alleykat said, on October 15, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Even Wainwright said he just “Plays like a Pimp”
    And that stupid ass sports writer Jeff Passan,just thinks he’s great for the game.Fuck Him.
    No hustle out of the box,thinkin he hit a bomb,then beats the throw for added hightlight on the play,when it just should of been an easy 3 bagger.Fuck this weasel punk.

    • Nipper said, on October 15, 2013 at 11:11 am

      “Fuck this weasel punk.” Got the claws out?

  24. snarkk said, on October 15, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Puig is an intriguing player. I really don’t want him to “calm down”, if that means he won’t play as well, if I were a Doghair fan. Ruth supposedly pointed to right center at Wrigley in the 1932 World Series after being heckled by the Cub bench, then hit it out as pointed. Seems to me that would be a huge transgression now in “showing up” the other team, yet it lives in legend. Baseball is weird that way, at least as played in the US major leagues. One thing is legendary, something else not too different is a violation of the unwritten code, generating a fastball in the ribs as payback for the slight. I don’t mind Vernon Davis “shooting a basket” with the football over the goalpost after catching a TD pass, he doesn’t even get flagged for it. That adds a little flavor to the game, shows the players are into it. Baseball should lighten up…

    • Alleykat said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:17 pm

      Well VD does the shooting the basket move now Snarkk,cause he looked like a fool when he couldn’t dunk the football over the goalpost against GB.last.year and took a rash of shit from his teammates on the flight home….:-)

    • snarkk said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:11 pm

      I don’t really care what he does to celebrate as long as he doesn’t directly taunt the opposition. Same goes for baseball, IMO. If a guy pumps his fist at hitting a homer, big deal. Romo does his schtick after a save. If it’s showing real emotion, not some planned and directed taunting, so what? The celebrations after walk off hits are strange and ridiculous to me — they aren’t really taunting, but they aren’t particularly unplanned — they happen as if required now for walkoffs. I just think those celebrations are dumb. And, the opposition doesn’t seem to have any problems with that. More evidence IMO of the arbitrary and capricious nature of the code against “showing up” your opponent…

  25. Macdog said, on October 15, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Maybe Beltran should pay more attention to his own teammates: http://tinyurl.com/kkqyjnn

    My biggest problem with Puig’s antics — and any baseball fan no matter which team you’re rooting for should be equally appalled — is admiring his hit instead of busting it out of the box when it turns out the ball doesn’t even clear the fence. If there was any justice on that play, the ball bounces right to Beltran and Puig gets thrown out at 2nd or gets held to a double.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 12:33 pm

      mac, if one played puig’s antics in an endless animated gif, they would far overshadow the momentary exuberance displayed by the card players. that deadspin piece is a totally dishonest display of slanted ‘journalism’.

      • Macdog said, on October 15, 2013 at 12:47 pm

        I won’t disagree that Puig’s antics are far more over the top than anything seen there.

  26. twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 11:37 am

    nothing beltran said was out of line. one may not agree with it, but he was hardly condemning the kid. the outcry over beltran’s comments is far more hysterical than anything beltran said.

  27. Chipower9 said, on October 15, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Been out of the loop for a bit. We were in Carson City competing with the dogs and just getting back to the normal grind (is that an oxymoron?).

    I am conflicted on both series, even though I really don’t give a rat’s ass about any of them.

    NLCS – Many of you long standing Flappers know that I grew-up a Deadbirds as a kid in Oklahoma. But that ship has sailed…I have no love for them. And we all know how I (and most everyone here) feels about the Bumbinos (my most hated baseball club). But, with Michael’s PC on the line, I had to pick the teams I thought would advance, and in the NLCS…that’s the Bums.

    ALCS – I really have no feelings for either club, but from my heart, I do like the Sox better (I just like their make-up and moxie). But again, with that PC on the line, my pick to advance was the Tigers.

    If nothing was on the line, I would be behind the Deadbirds (almost always a NL loyalist – cannot stand that sissy-assed brand of ball they play in the Junior Circuit), and would have to pick them over the hated Bumbinos (or as Flavor has nabbed them…the Art Dealers).

    I just want to see some quality ball AND win the fucking PC.

    Outside of that, where I am really at with baseball is ONLY 167 days before pitchers and catchers report for OUR San Francisco Giants!

  28. twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    as to beltran’s postseason numbers, it can’t be argued that they aren’t among the best in postseason history. of course there are more postseason games than there were in mays or mantle’s day. but throw out the numbers that are predicated on games played and he’s still among the greatest.these numbers are not dependant on how many games were played in the postseason- ba, obp, ops-
    mays 25 g 69 ab .247 ba .323 obp .660 ops
    beltran 42 g 153 ab .333 ba .443 obp 1.169 ops
    mantle 65 g 230 ab .257 ba .374 obp .908 ops
    mr. october 77 g 281 ab .278 ba .358 obp .885 ops

    beltran also has more hrs per ab than mays, mantle, or jackson. not liking a guy or his team isn’t an excuse for dismissing his performance. also neglected is that was *easier* to get to the world series in the ‘good ole days’..

  29. zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Can you be considered one of the all-time great post-season players if your team never even got to the championship? Sorry, but the answer is no. If the Cards get to the World Series this year, Beltran’s credibility in that regard goes up a few notches. Win the World Series, and NOW he becomes all-time, if all-time is really to mean anything.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:08 pm

      again, you’re dismissing one man’s performance because of subpar performances from others. it certainly destroys many of your own arguments. but you didn’t just say he wasn’t a great postseason player- you called him a choke artist and even slandered an entire city by calling st. louis fans ‘self-satisfied red-clad Midwestern fascists’…zumiee, your’re off the rails of late.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:37 pm

      So much for having opinions.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:15 pm

      calling cards fans ‘fascists’is just a fucking opinion? let’s see, you’ve recently called out beltran for an allegedly racist comment about puig’s antics and now calling an entire fan base ‘fascists’ is just an opinion? chuck, fascists were followers (and in many cases accomplices) of a maniac who was responsible for murdering over 10 million people- calling baseball fans ‘fascists’ because they root for an opposing team is despicable and hateful. shame on anybody who defends that kind of talk.

    • chipower9 said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:59 pm

      We ALL have our rights to our opinions…on this one I must disagree, Zumie. It is a team sport…Beltran could have great numbers in the post season, and the Cards not make the Championship series, but does that mean HE is not a great post-season player? In “my opinion” NO. Any player can have great post-season numbers and if their shit team doesn’t cut the mustard to get them to the championship, I do not believe it reflects on that one players contribution.

      We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

  30. Rooster said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Yeah, I get why Puig’s antics cause every other team and their fans to hate him – if he was on the other team I’d hate him too.

    Ran across these opinions today – Brian Costa in the Wall Street Journal:

    “The game would be better off if more players handled success like Puig, or at the very least, felt like they were free to do so. It’s supposed to be fun. It’s supposed to be entertaining. Somewhere along the line, U.S. baseball players became the most sensitive athletes in all of sports. Clap once after a hit, and they’ll tolerate it. Clap twice, and you’re showing them up, an offense punishable by a fastball off your leg the next time you come to the plate.”

    And even better

    Chad Moriyama with a great look at the “hurt feelings” stories of the day:

    “I make this point all the time, but sports is entertainment, and if you take it that way you stop being so offended over things as silly as celebrating. And honestly, I think you stop taking stuff that goes on within that arena so personally, in general. Besides, if you’re going to get mad about something, do it over something worthwhile, like pointless beanball wars and brawls, not guys having fun.

    I just have trouble with understanding the logic and reasoning of people who look to sports as some kind of moral compass for how we as a society and culture should act. If you’re relying on sports for that, then it seems to me there are more pressing issues with your life and decision making than why some dude on TV is happy and you’re not.”

    It’s a game – in MLB it’s a kids game played mostly by adults who forgot that they were playing a kids game and are supposed to be having fun and enjoying themselves instead of always looking at the other guy and getting pissed at him for enjoying himself too much.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:31 pm

      nothing beltran said even hinted at ‘hating’ puig. and there’s a difference between his antics and an exuberant momentary display of emotion. and as i posted earlier- many of the same people get all het up about the calm comments from beltran, advocate drilling puig for his display.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:49 pm

      the deal with puig goes beyond premature celebrations- he’s dogged it on the bases, he’s been pulled from a game for not being ready on defense, he’s misplayed balls in the outfield due to nonchalance, etc, etc. if the kid wasn’t a dog so often, people wouldn’t take as much offense at his *hot*dogging.

  31. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    “Advocating physically hurting the guy”, Twin? i didn’t write the unwritten rules. They did. The typical response to things like this is a fastball to the ribs. Wainwright is the one supposedly shown up. What did he say?

    A-Gon hits an RBI double in the fourth inning. After getting to second base, Gonzalez was fired up and he pumped his fists. Wainwright described Gonzalez’s excitement at second base as “Mickey Mouse stuff,” per Pedro Moura of the OC Register.

    A-Gon responded with “I did what I always do. We are in LA, so Mickey Mouse stuff does go. Mickey Mouse is only an hour away. So, you know, it fits us. I did what I always do.”

    There you have it. Mickey Mouse runs the Dodgers. At least it’s funny. Beltran’s comments are the usual bullshit around the game being steadfastly clinging to its lily white past. Regardless of Beltran’s ethnicity.

    Between StL and Atlanta, these guys are the epitome of the arcane feeling of the game needing to become bland and unexciting. No celebrations. Unless within the scripted pervue of the unwritten rulebook.

    Walkoff hit? Go nuts. Beat up and injure the GW hitter. Run around the field like crazy people. Otherwise, put your head down and thank the Lord (non-demonstrably of course) that you did it. And be prepared to get drilled anyway because you did hit that HR.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:01 pm

      oh, now *you* calm down, chuck. you brought up the notion of drilling him in the ribs. i know you didn’t ‘write the unwritten rules’ . but what you said is the truth of it and we’ve seen it over and over- don’t critizicize-drill him. beltran’s comments were totally fair, they weren’t hateful, the essence- ‘grow up’. he’s right.
      as far as z’s comments- they were ridiculous. do you want a list of sf giant chokers based on his criteria?

      • unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:53 pm

        Right, Mike. I forgot. you are the arbiter of all that is baseball. No one else’s opinions mean anything.

        I don’t think Beltran is right. I think he’s whining because they got beat and Puig hotdogged. Bonds does a twirl after hitting a home run and the Dodgers go into a 10 year tailspin. These guys are weenies in their overreacting to the most mundane shit imaginable.

        Besides, do you think the Cards give a shit about Puig’s so-called defensive liabilities? Or his dogging it at times? Hell to the no. They don’t give a fuck about that. Beltran certainly doesn’t. Beltran’s not commenting on Puig dogging grounders or misplaying flyballs. You are. Beltran’s commenting about yesterday’s actions. he doesn’t have Puig;s entire history at the tip of his brain when he commented.

        Read my 1:46.

  32. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    That being said, I don;t agree with Zumie mainly because any one player is hard-pressed to be the entire cause for a team’s failings. It takes a village . . .

  33. Alleykat said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Shit Verlander is pitching like Koufax & Gibson this postseason,freaking unhittable !!!

  34. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Lackey ain’t so bad himself . . .

  35. zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Juan Uribe is a far greater all-time playoff performer than Beltran, IMO, and I don’t need a wall of stats thrown at me. Until Beltran at least GETS to the World Series, he’s a footnote, as far as I’m concerned.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 4:04 pm

      my goodness,if beltran is just a ‘footnote’ for not carrying 24 others guys to the world series, what’s ernie banks?
      rod carew? billy williams? joe torre? ken griffey,jr? andre dawson? *nobody*who has even an inkling of a clue about the game could put the onus on one player for his team not going to the series.

  36. zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    I’ll give the Cards fans this, when it comes to Midwestern fascist sports fans, they are notch better than the Nebraska Cornhusker football fans.
    It’d be a lot of fun to wear an Obama t-shirt in this crowd. Not.

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=nebraska+stadium+photos&ei=utf-8&fr=b2ie7

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 3:33 pm

      zumiee, why in the world would you want to ‘double down’ on your ignorant and baseless comments characterizing a team’s fans as ‘fascists’? no doubt it was intended to get a response and i should have called you out on it then- as should anyone who saw the comment.

      • unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 5:25 pm

        Come on, Mike. You say ‘San Francisco’ in the stadium that beer-bongs built, and what do you think the response will be?

        Thoughtful dialog about the beauty of SF and their plucky underdog baseball team? No.

        To them we’re a bunch of lib-dem faggots, and to us they are a bunch of right-wing fascists. Sports are like that. Lowest common denominator and all that shit. Eagles fans boos Santa Claus 50 years ago, and it still gets talked about. With reverence mind you. No reason to get all crazy about it.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 5:58 pm

        side note- although romney carried the state, obama carried st. louis with 82 percent of the vote. african-americans comprise 49 percent of the population compared to 42 percent white, according to the 2010 census.
        at least zumiee should pick the right city to label it’s fans as fascists,as if it’s right to label any group in such a way -with ZERO reason or justification . and your justification for labeling any group with such an odious term is laughable- ‘to us they are a bunch of right-wing fascists’. to who? you? your friends? who among your friends would label baseball fans right-wing fascists? i don’t know a single fan who would say such a thing. no, sports are not like that, not to civilized people.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:18 pm

        maybe to bunch of inebriated fucktards ‘we’re a bunch of lib-dem faggots’ but do you *really* believe that’s how even a tiny percantage of st. louis fans think of us? only a moron who would call st. louis fans fascists would think such a thing. two sides of the same bigoted coin. if you really hang with folks who thinks st. louis fans are fascists, you are in desperate need of new friends..

  37. Nipper said, on October 15, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Where’s the Tea Party? Oh yeah they’re in the House pondering our debt.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 5:15 pm

      They are down the rabbit hole, Nippy.

  38. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Per MLB Trade Rumors, there is mutual interest between the New York Yankees and St. Louis Cardinal Carlos Beltran. Timing is everything. Right when he loses his ripeness, the Yanks swoop in and throw him a 7 year $150 mill deal.

  39. zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    The city of St. Louis is 50% African-American, hence the high percentage of the city that voted for Obama. Did anyone notice the St. Louis ballpark was half full of black people the other night? I sure didn’t. Most of pro teams’ fans don’t come from the actual cities themselves. How many residents of the city of SF are regular attendees of Giants games and 49er games?
    So, when I say ‘Cardinal fans,’ it doesn’t mean I’m saying ‘the city of St. Louis.’

    • zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:14 pm

      Exceptions would be LA and NY, which are so spread out.

    • zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:15 pm

      Btw- Missouri went to Romney.

    • zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:16 pm

      Ignore that last one. TF included that. I forgot. :)

  40. twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    so the stadium is not populated with 50 percent blacks- so they’re all fascists? good, reasonable thinking. my mother was born there, i stiil have relatives there. i’ve been to games there. zumiee, you know as well as i do that your comment was out of line. just apologize for it. it was wrong- not opinion. fact.

    • zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      I don’t remember when you were elected Blog Police. I must have missed that day.

      • zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:29 pm

        By the way, notice how just about everyone clears out when you do that? No one can empty the room like you.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 6:39 pm

      calling people fascists wthout a scintilla of evidence *should* be *policed*. and if flappers have left because you were called out for your unsupportable insult, good riddance. any room inhabited by people who would label another city’s fans fascists is a room no civilized person would come close to. your comment was disgraceful and the lack of censure is disgraceful as well.

      • zumiee said, on October 15, 2013 at 7:04 pm

  41. twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    moderated by Flavor.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:52 pm

      i’ll put you down as approving of calling st. louis and nebraska fans fascists.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 9:06 pm

        and of agreeing that most fans are fine with a pitcher blowing out his arm if he did it while we won a pennant.

  42. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Isn’t there a game on tonight?

  43. Nipper said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    There’s nothing like mutual contempt to get the juices flowing. Go boys! Too bad there’s no mud around.

    • Alleykat said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:37 pm

      Rather watch John Candy mud wrestle those bikini hot babes in Stripes… Nip, then the Z,Twin, facist,faggots,Flapper match.

  44. unca_chuck said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    Seriously, Mike. If someone walked around Busch stadium with a Giants jersey on, one would likely be called faggot at least 5 times.

    Here’s a hint. We aren’t all faggots and they aren’t all fascists. Sports fans are usually on the lower end of the smarts spectrum as a rule so they generalize.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:40 pm

      ‘ If someone walked around Busch stadium with a Giants jersey on, one would likely be called faggot at least 5 times’ maybe,but i don’t know that and neither do you. what i do know is that anyone calling that fan a faggot or a st louis fan at at&t a fascist is making an ignorant and inflammatory remark that no decent person would ever say. those kind of rermarks just incite the kind of fan violence that the decent fans abhor. would you call a card fan a fascist just for being a card fan? i hope you wouldn’t. i love this line, though- ‘Sports fans are usually on the lower end of the smarts spectrum as a rule so they generalize.’ that does kinda nail it with the fascist comments from z.

  45. sportdude said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    YES!!! Man I hate rooting for the Cards…

  46. Macdog said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    One to go.

  47. sportdude said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Just a quick review of the posts so i will add…Puig is the most entertaining and fun player to hit baseball since the “Bird”. I would love it if we signed the Cuban 1st baseman and he was just as crazy. Baseball is funner to watch when the players are having fun, as he clearly is! he raw talent and hard nosed play are amazing.

    • Flavor said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:42 pm

      nice wrap up to this thread.
      See why I try to post one every day?
      1000 apologies for missing this morning…….

    • twinfan1 said, on October 15, 2013 at 8:49 pm

      i’ve seen enough commentary here to know that if puig pulled his act here, the folks wouldn’t be as generous in praising his antics. we’d be hearing that he should be thrown at.


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