THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Voggy’s Back!

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 29, 2013

Does that do anything fer ya? I don’t think bringing back Vogelsong was Bruce Jenkin’s idea of nailing down that final fifth starter. It’s nice that the Giants got him for about half what they would have had to pay him if they had picked up his option. Decent business move, I guess.

If Sabean were playing Colleti in chess, this move would equal moving your pawn a couple of spots forward with no real plan for what to do next. This is not a move that allows us to be *at least as good* as the Dodger pitching staff.

Voggy’s biggest question is whether he can regain his velocity or not. It’s possible he wasn’t able to find it because of the injury and it’s hard to come back mid season after missing so much time. Or maybe he’s just gotten too old. It happens quickly sometimes. Just ask Ted Lilly.

I’m now watching an off season that is starting to worry me. Sabean has spent most of his time just re-signing all the guys who barely kept them out of last place last season. And Tim Hudson, while a nice addition, isn’t going to be able to make up that many games in the win column. He’s only one man.

Left Field is a massive problem. Our offense sucks. And our pitching, in the best case scenario, still isn’t as good as the Dodgers staff. Things are dark and gloomy. Could be time for some haiku’s to perk me up but I feel like that’s at least a month too early. If we start writing them now what will we do a month from now?

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51 Responses

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  1. snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    I am totally down with everything you said in this thread intro, BF. They need a LFer. And, this pitching staff isn’t as good as the Dodgers’ staff. They’ve exchanged Huddy for Zito, everything else is unchanged in the pitching dept. so far. Voggy sucked last season before he got hurt, he really sucked balls the last half of 2012. So, we re-up a pitcher who’s sucked for a full season for a cheap price, but he’s a good guy and a red-ass on his starting days. To me, that’s not really good news…

  2. snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    In other news, from Pavlovic of the Merc:
    “Johnny Monell and Francisco Peguero were DFA’d to make room for LHP Jose DePaula (claimed from Padres) and hard-throwing RHP Erik Cordier (signed as free agent)”. That Peguero sure was a prospect — like all the Giants OF prospects seem to be…

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on November 29, 2013 at 2:51 pm

      I was never much sold on the Darren Ford-like Mr. Peguero.

    • snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 3:12 pm

      I never heard of either of these pitchers. Sound like Spring Training fodder. Doesn’t say much for a somewhat ballyhood prospect several years ago (Peguero) that he eventually gets tossed away to make room for a couple of no-name pitchers. [ Insert diatribe on Giants farm system OFers here ]. However, the Cordier name in France is a well known Bordeaux wine negotiant. Maybe Boch wanted him to get a good deal on a case of some good vin out of St. Julien or Margaux…

  3. PawlieKokonuts said, on November 29, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Aside from our offense sucking, our defense wasn’t so hot either, as I recall. #gloomanddoom I pine for the hope — even if delusional like a Cub fan’s — that spring training offers.

  4. sportdude said, on November 29, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Not a fan of the Voggy signing. Just my 2 cents but why weren’t the Giants in on J Johnson? Padres may regret it, but he was pretty good for a long while, and then one awful year. Only 29. Still had 83 K’s in 81 innings..Comeback candidate just like Voggy only a lot younger with better upside..

  5. zumiee said, on November 29, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    I’m OK with the Vogie signing. Sure, our 2014 season is built entirely upon the hope that a bunch of players who underachieved in 2013 will revert back to their better ability; but hey…..it could happen. And if it does, Sabean will get the last laugh….again.
    If not, it’s going to be a loooonnnnggggg stretch of dog days in 2014.
    Speaking of dogs…..the Fresno Bulldogs are losing to San Jose St. Gotta play some defense, dudes! The way the game is going, it’s going to be a 63-60 final score.

  6. zumiee said, on November 29, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Check out this stat- Fresno St. and San Jose St. combined for 1,000 yards of offense in the FIRST HALF. I still can’t believe that. It doesn’t seem possible. Maybe I read that wrong. There is NONE defense going on in that game.

    • snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 4:00 pm

      Iowa over Nebraska today 38-17 at Lincoln. First Iowa win there since before WWII. Husker coach Bo Pelini quoted after the game as saying “If they want to fire me, go ahead”. Sounds like a request to me…

  7. Macdog said, on November 29, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    I don’t mind Vogey coming back for a couple $million — and hey, that’s still his ring on display at the upper right here. What I’m not thrilled about is this line from the Alex P blog: “Sabean has said that he would not make Vogelsong, 36, compete for a job next spring, and the veteran right-hander will now slot in alongside Matt Cain, Madison Bumgarner, Tim Lincecum and Tim Hudson.” Huh? The way Vogey pitched last season, the #5 spot oughta go to whoever’s pitching the best coming out of spring training, whether it’s Vogey, Petit or whoever else is in camp.

    Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!

    • Flavor said, on November 29, 2013 at 4:40 pm

      Well if they’re gonna give him 3+ mil guaranteed the plan probably starts with giving him a spot at beginning of season and having Petit or Groper bide their time in Fresno (or trolling ER’s for pussy).
      Either way, it’s a shaky plan, at best

    • snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 4:46 pm

      At the cheaper price, it means at least that the Voggy rope will not be as long as a $6M rope if he craters. I’ve got no crystal ball, but IMO at his age and recent history, the chance of cratering is better than the chance of a miraculous performance, or even a decent #5 level performance. Unless he consults with Bartolo Colon for some “secrets” about pitching well at a late age…

  8. zumiee said, on November 29, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Well, Fresno St. had a nice run while it lasted. Losing 62-52 with 2 minutes to go, it’s about over. San Jose St.’s offense had over 700 yards. That would categorize as “epic fail” for the Fresno St. “D.”
    Fresno St. should still get a pretty good bowl game. They’re 10-1, and have a very entertaining offense. Match them up with another offense-oriented team in their talent range, and it should be a wild one.
    I wonder where Derek Carr will go in the draft. I totally lost track of his brother’s spotty NFL career.
    There will probably be some NFL interest in the Fresno wide receivers, also.

    • snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 4:55 pm

      The Niners need receivers. And, a second string QB. The Raiduhs need a QB…

    • willedav said, on November 29, 2013 at 6:11 pm

      Thx for update, saved me a gloat post.
      Jose State’s QB ain’t bad either, maybe fales turns into another foles.

  9. stixwiz said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Nobody’s exactly ga-ga over the Vogie re-up. But you gotta know there were some high-level discussions based on internal scouting and evaluation. So i guess we’ll all keep our fingers crossed and should have a pretty good notion of how things stand by mid-May or so. At least there are capable back-up, second and third go-to’s on the roster. And who knows, maybe the Bulldog will get his arm back into a groove and recover some of his moxie. If his skills can re-project to about halfway between his 2012 and 2013 years he should be adequate for a #5.

    From blog-chat and from the regular media folk my impression is that the Train Bust is gonna hafta go all out to resolve the LF situation to keep the fan-base from steaming up and to at least maintain respectability. Giants could put together quite a package which could include the likes of Hector and Blanco along with middling-strong pitching prospects to some team which has a strong left-fielder and a catcher who would make a decent 30-40 game backup for Buster. Seems like most everyone expects some fairly serious action on that front, particularly as the owners are currently looking at a somewhat reduced payroll from last season and with Hudson replacing Zito. So the expectations are up there. Should happen, may well be during the Winter Meetings.

    • Flavor said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:57 pm

      Hector and Blanco are not coveted by anyone.

      • stixwiz said, on November 29, 2013 at 8:26 pm

        My thought on Blanco supposed a team had a proven AAA rookie in the wings and could use an experienced backup/fill-in. I’m not so sure Hector does not have secret admirers. When he is on that guy can rake. Anyway, one or the other (maybe both) would be secondary to pitching prospects in any probable deal.

  10. Macdog said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    I can’t believe that the same Fresno St. I saw barely beat Rutgers in OT way back when in the season opener was still undefeated going into today’s game.

  11. willedav said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    If the nba really wanted to promote the product they would show only warriors-thunder games.
    Steph curry is just fun to watch when he is on, and OKC can score with anyone.
    Last one had the killer ending, GS is right in their face without Ig tonite.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:36 pm

      They still are . . . Overtime, with the Warriors behind by 2 (106-108 OKC).

      • Flavor said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:53 pm

        sickening Dubs loss. Yuck.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:59 pm

        Westbrook nailing that 3 was unfrickingbelievable . . . Was certain we would have no less than a 2nd overtime.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 29, 2013 at 8:01 pm

        Also hurt me on Fan Duel . . . In the money right now (had Harrison) and would probably be a sure thing with them going 2 overtimes. Still got Cousins and Frye playing. See what happens . . .

  12. willedav said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    too bad but helluva game. dubs played good D, unable to secure d boards and some bad FT shooting in 4th.
    Amazing shot by Westbrook once again.
    Barnes looked good at both ends, played Durant even up.

    • Flavor said, on November 29, 2013 at 7:59 pm

      Westbrook shot was epic but the dude saving ball from out of bounds throwing it over his shoulder to no one and a prayer should get props too.

      • snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 9:40 pm

        I don’t know what Barnes was doing. He was looking away into the backcourt when Westbrook was getting the ball in the corner and setting up for the jumper. So, Barnes was late for the hand in the face to Westbrook for that kill shot. I don’t get that defense, if Westbrook has the ball, he’s going to take the last second jumper, so get on him…

  13. blade3colorado said, on November 29, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    I like the fact that at least Vogie has an excuse – he was affected by a short offseason, then pitching in the World Baseball Classic in March. Yes, he went 4-6 with a 5.73 ERA in 19 starts and 103 2/3 innings. However, it was during an injury-shortened season. He broke two bones in the right pinkie area of his pitching hand and also dislocated a knuckle on a swing May 20 and underwent surgery the next day. He had five pins inserted in his hand. As I said yesterday, I’m hoping this is part 1 or a 2 part plan, i.e., they save money on a pitcher they have already deemed healthy and will utilize the money saved toward this deal – free agent or trade – for an outfielder.

    Ricky Nolasco? Meh. Do you know what his four years and $49 million contract reminds me of? Edwin Jackson. Jackson signed a 4-year, $52 million contract with the Chicago Cubs last year. Anyone recall his April 14th outing? Jackson, along with Michael Bowden broke the record for most wild pitches in a single inning, with 5. Jackson ended up going 8-18 last year . . . This is exactly what I see in store for the Twins and Nolasco.

    In short, at least Vogie is a known quantity and we know what he is capable of.

    • snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 9:42 pm

      Voggy is a known quantity and we know what he’s capable of over the last season (combined last half 2012-first half 2013). That’s why I’m concerned…

      • blade3colorado said, on November 29, 2013 at 10:02 pm

        Huh????? Last half of 2012 he was lights out, so no idea who you are talking about. To wit – He posted a 3-0 record with a 1.09 ERA in the playoffs, allowing 3 runs through 24.2 innings, the lowest ERA among all Giants’ starting pitchers. 2013 he did his face plant.

      • snarkk said, on November 29, 2013 at 11:01 pm

        Blade. Come on, it wasn’t that long ago. Take a look at his regular season stats post-All Star 2012. ERA 4.78 overall. ERA in August and Sept 2012 was horrific — over 6.30; BA against was over .300, WHIP over 1.50. 11 starts in those two months, he averaged just over 5 innings per start. He couldn’t get anybody out. He got the mojo back somehow in the playoffs, yes. But, then back to horrible this past season (9 starts, WHIP north of 1.7) until he broke his hand. The game where he broke his hand was the first one in 2013 he actually pitched well. So, sandwiched before and after the very good 2012 playoff stretch of 3 games, he had 4+ months (20 starts) of horrid pitching over two seasons…

  14. unca_chuck said, on November 29, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    Hope and a prayer as of now. Not much to trade with, and nothing available worth much.

    Just got to hope for a good old-fashioned revival? A revival of the not-so fittest?

    • snarkk said, on November 30, 2013 at 12:03 am

      The wildcard coming back is Pagan. Since he missed so much of 2013, his coming back healthy for 2014 would be like adding a new player. At least that’s what I’m going with right now…

      • blade3colorado said, on November 30, 2013 at 6:57 am

        Snarkk, in response to your post about Vogie . . . Hey, all of that is true. However, prior to his injury last season, his last impression was the playoffs, not the regular season in 2012. Moreover, I think I am going to trust that the Giants trainers, physicians, and coaches know what they are doing versus anyone here. Nevertheless, this is important – I’ll agree with you that this stinks to high heaven if the Giants don’t make this PART 1 OF A TWO PART PLAN . . . In other words, If they don’t take the savings from resigning him and direct the coin they’ve saved toward a bat to replace Blanco, then yeah, this doesn’t pass the smell test.

        Also, it isn’t just Pagan coming back from the dead. Posey, Lincecum, Cain, Vogie, Crawford, and fat ass at 3rd all have much to prove.

  15. willedav said, on November 30, 2013 at 7:08 am

    If you want to look only at the bright side, re-signing Vogs also means the return of Mrs. Vogs.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 30, 2013 at 7:14 am

      Willie, what is your email address?

      • willedav said, on November 30, 2013 at 8:02 am

        wdblues122@yahoo.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 30, 2013 at 8:23 am

        Thanks Willie . . . Sent you an email.

  16. Bozo said, on November 30, 2013 at 7:32 am

    I’m not sure which OFer out there the Giants want to trade for, but in the meantime, I’m starting to think of Mike Morse in a Pat the Bat role. RHer with pop, he had some wrist problems last year but he had surgery this offseason and could probably be gotten cheap.

    • salty said, on November 30, 2013 at 8:38 am

      An everyday LF will not be easy to come by. Why else does Bird get 2/16 Young 7.5m and the A’s, who have prospects to deal, are considering Nelson Needle Cruz?
      G’s have the cash but may have to wait until the deadline to get the guy who someone else no longer wants to pay.
      Maybe they have been coy and are going to shock everyone and sign Choo or Ellsbury and move Pagan to Lf. That would make for a very pricey OF.
      Another possibility still is they get a RH 1b and move Belt to L. Don’t like it but that seems the way they were going with Abreu.

      • Bozo said, on November 30, 2013 at 11:57 am

        Salty, I’d love to see them pick up Choo or Ellsbury, I just don’t think they will. I’m not sure how hard the Giants pushed for Abreu (I thought the Sox and Miami were the big players on him) and yeah if they had gotten him Belt would have moved to Left or been traded. Michael Morse can play both First and LF and if nothing else, much better than Pill off of the bench (but he think he could actually start in our OF). Anyway, just a thought and who knows, maybe they already have a team lined up for Monell and Peguero trade for an starting OFer.

      • snarkk said, on November 30, 2013 at 1:16 pm

        Bozo, they DFA’d Monell and Peguero yesterday to make room on the 40 man for two no-name pitchers they picked up…

      • Bozo said, on November 30, 2013 at 1:23 pm

        snarkk, I think they still have some time (7 or 10 days?) to trade them after they DFA them, no?

      • snarkk said, on November 30, 2013 at 1:33 pm

        Yes, there is a 10 day period where the cut player can be traded or waived or released if he clears waivers and sign back with the Giants as a minor leaguer. My point was that being DFA’d seems to me to immediately signal that you expect the quality of anybody you’re going to get in return in a trade is fairly low. There are probably exceptions from some weird procedural stuff, but if you DFA a guy, you generally aren’t expecting much in a trade for him…

  17. snarkk said, on November 30, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    I don’t have any unique ideas about LFers. But, I do believe that you really have to get some power out of that position. It’s a power position. A wimpy full season 6 or 7 dingers between a platoon out there just is a killer to offensive production…

  18. snarkk said, on November 30, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Blade, I’m down with your early morning response to my Voggy bash. Anyhoo, I’m reading today where the Giants may eventually end up paying $5M to Voggy, and that’s not with too much reliance on incentives. If true, I don’t understand what the point was to pay him to go away and then re-sign him, if the monetary difference is less than a million. A penny saved and all that, but sheez, that savings isn’t worth spit in terms of applying it somewhere else of need…

    • blade3colorado said, on November 30, 2013 at 2:16 pm

      Just a hunch (based upon innuendo I’ve read in a number of articles), but I suspect they aren’t done yet. This Giants hot stove season has been all about signing our guys (mostly pitchers) and one significant pitching deal (Hudson). This is what we know about Sabean . . . He said, “We’re not going to be interested in giving up our first-round draft pick, so anybody with a qualifying offer with first-round draft-pick compensation attached to that, we’re probably not going to be in on. So that shrinks the pitchers’ list, and quite frankly, whether it’s through trade or free agency, the ability to get the bat is going to be difficult and may just have to happen over time.”

      So forgot about ANY free agent with a qualifying offer. Wont happen. Per Schulman, “The Giants have good reason to avoid these players this winter in particular. Because of their losing record in 2013 they will get the 14th overall pick, the highest they have drafted since they took Buster Posey with the fifth pick in 2008.”

      That leaves one avenue – a trade . . . unless, of course, Sabean follows through with the part about “. . . may just have to happen over time.” In other words, after the All Star break and only if the Giants are competing for a playoff spot.

  19. snarkk said, on November 30, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    This Bama/Auburn game isn’t a blowout yet for Bama, but I fail to see what’s so special about the SEC, particularly beyond the top two or three teams. Bama, were it in the Pac 12, I firmly believe would not be undefeated. There’s too much depth up and down the Pac12 roster compared to the SEC. Look at some of the teams this year on the Bama schedule: Colorado State, Georgia State, Kentucky, Arkansas, Tennessee, and that perennial powerhouse — Chattanooga (49-0 in a home game beat down last week)…

    • WilcoJoe said, on November 30, 2013 at 4:58 pm

      I pretty much agree with most everything you say Snarkk, but after reading that post once, I had to read again to make sure you weren’t being sarcastic. The PAC 10 is a joke compared to the SEC…I have always despised the SEC, but that’s mostly out of jealousy. Tonight’s game was evidence of that. There is SEC football and then there is everyone else.

      • snarkk said, on November 30, 2013 at 10:12 pm

        WJoe, I use today’s Auburn win as Exhibit A that the SEC is not inarguably the best conference. Alabama supposedly unbeatable, beaten. Mizzou beat Tex A&M, and the Aggies gave good showing against Bama. I would put AZ State, UCLA, Oregon and Stanford against any 4 SEC, and we’ll see where the chips fall. No way the SEC teams roll the table in that tourney. I think AZ State beats Stanford next week, gets to the Rose Bowl and clobbers whoever comes West. And, FL State plays in the ACC, a very mediocre conference. Put FL State in the Pac 12 and it has 2 losses easily in conference. It’s playing friggin DUKE next weekend to go to the BCS champ bowl. That’s ridiculous…

  20. stixwiz said, on November 30, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    MLBTR just ran info from a Baggarly tweet that the Orioles laid down some cash to SF for the services of recently DFAed catcher Johnny Monell. So far as the article went, terms of the deal were not released. So the Giants keep raking in the bucks. Meanwhile the black hole in LF still yawns and stretches.


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