THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Sabean’s Idea of Conventional Wisdom Needs to Be Re-Examined

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 10, 2013

Brian Sabean took time out from his field trips to Tampa Bay to tell Andrew Baggarly that negotiating an extension for Sandoval this Spring would be “conventional wisdom.” Excuse me?

Is Sabean just dumb? It’s a serious question. He gives Sandoval nearly 18 million dollars after he loses the weight prior to the 2011 season only to watch him balloon back up to a blimp shortly there-after. Pablo: 1 Sabean: 0. Now The Panda is busy cutting himself in half because, you know, he needs to gear up for his contract year. And instead of calling bullshit on this pathetic approach to preparing himself as a major league player year to year, instead of adhering to the “fool me once/twice” adage, he’s telling Baggarly that *conventional wisdom* says to sign him to a mega deal? So what happens when you give him 75 million and he starts powering down the giant sundae’s again? Wait him out till the end of the new deal, watch him get in shape again and then give him another 100 million? This is just beyond idiotic.

I don’t doubt for a second that Pablo will come to camp in shape and have a good year. And I doubt for even less than a second that there will be dumb ass GM’s lining up to offer him a boatload of cash. The world wouldn’t make sense without dumb ass GM’s out there making it rain on all of these players.

Sabean can make it rain all week on the Tampa hoes. But I don’t want him to make it rain on the Panda in Spring Training. Working out for a couple of months shouldn’t get you a 75-100 million dollar contract. It just shouldn’t and Sabean should know better.

Look, we don’t have to be held hostage by Panda’s wild cravings anymore. His value is overrated anyway. Go look at his stats and tell me otherwise. If he wants to bolt after 2014, let him. Move Posey over to 3rd and promote Susac. Or sign a FA 3rd baseman or move Posey to 3rd and sign a FA catcher. Just because the Giants failed to develop a 3rd baseman in the minor leagues shouldn’t mean that Sabean is always going to be responsible for trying to satiate the insatiable Panda. I’m beyond tired of this being an issue year in and year out. Look, his metabolism is only going to slow down as he gets older, this *problem* will only get worse as he ages. Take the best of what he has to offer next year and move freaking on already…..

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  1. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Stix, Alejandro De Aza is his name. Where did you hear that? He actually is a fairly good player, with good speed and pop. He is only 29 and I think he’ll make $4.4 million in his second year of arbitration this winter, which isn’t too much. He isn’t the best fielder in the world, but who gives a fuck (as long as he is in left)? The Giants could do a lot worse than Aza. Me? This solves our left field problem if true. BRING HIM ON BOARD!

    • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2013 at 9:22 pm

      Addendum regarding his fielding – He actually can make ALL the plays, as his natural position is center field (107 games last season) albeit, he had a down year last season. I’ve had him on one of my fantasy league teams (2012) and he was a very good player. However, defensive stats aren’t counted in FL. :-)

  2. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    Flav, I have no idea what the context was, when Sabes said this. However, knowing Sabes – I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he was being sarcastic when he used, “conventional wisdom.” Frankly, in my mind, I think he was using it as a put down on people (other GMs?) who don’t think outside the box.

    If he was serious, than I am down with what you said. In effect, that fat fuck can complete his existing contract, then be someone else’s problem in 2015.

  3. SanDawg said, on December 10, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    What’s Going on Fellas? Long time, no blog. Just had my mind absolutely BLOWN by reading Flav’s post from a couple of days ago about The Stick. I was AT the game and it was emotional as hell. I paid through the nose for 2 of the worst seats in the house and it was worth every penny. My son Trev is a huge Niner fan and had never been to Candlestick. I had to go one last time and decided to go big and lay out the the cash for the Seahawk game. Trev turned 16 on Saturday so it was a birthday bash, a fun event for him after 7 weeks with his leg in a cast (he’s still in a boot now) and a chance to see my favorite edifice in the whole wide world (I’m not kidding) one last time. The view from the seats was actually not too bad as we were in Section 25, but we were in literally the last row of the fucking stadium. Ever seen the Charlie Krueger banner in the ring of honor? My head was leaning right up against old Charlie. Some buddies actually picked us up and treated us to a full on tailgate with BBQ, booze, AC/DC, and some football toss AND then they went home and watched the game on TV. One of my brothers also came to the game and spun stories at our tailgate about going to his first game at Seals Stadium and paying 90 cents to sit in the bleachers in the early days of the Stick. I spent half the game staring at spots where I remember sitting……my first game with my dad and brothers down the left field line in 1972, the Jerry Reuss no-hitter with my dad, the Memorial Day game where it was a sellout and my friend and I found an open gate and walked right in. The Thrill hit his first grand slam and Mike Schmidt retired after the game. Some other guys on this blog were at that same game. After the game, we were going to catch the bus downtown, but couldn’t find one anywhere and we ended up walking on Gilman all the way under the freeway to San Bruno Ave –the street where my grandparents used to live. Trev was in his boot the whole way. It was kinda funny watching him being a bit scared about the neighborhood—as that was the way I used to be when my candy ass would come from Woodland to go to a game at The Stick when I was his age.
    And yes, the game was great. It was packed and loud as hell and 85% of the fans had Niner gear on. Security was nowhere to be found and people were sitting in the aisles, smoking openly, passing around bottles of liquor. A scene you would never see in a SoCal. Good stuff. And hell yes, we rode on the bad-ass escalator. I’m leaving a ton of shit out, but it was an awesome day.

    • salty said, on December 10, 2013 at 10:20 pm

      Wow. That’s one for the archives.

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 12:05 am

      Nice job, ‘Dawg. Another great memory for you and yours. While the ‘Stick has had its foibles, there’s no denying the history of the place….

    • WilcoJoe said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:35 pm

      Great story Dawg! Yeah, my dad and I were there to see the Thrill’s grand salami/ Schmidt’s last game…Good times.

  4. willedav said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:00 am

    Hope SD’s post makes everyone feel better…been a lot of doom and gloom on blog lately, without good reason imo
    AZ has been shuffling the deck for a few years now and have had consecutive .500 seasons under former *mgr. of the year* Gibson. They make tons of deals and win 81 games, and Trumbo ain’t putting them over the top.
    So far LA has added Haren and lost a couple bench guys. Nothing to crow about.
    Speaking of LA, my lasting impression of 2013 is them pulling a team Heimlich vs. the cards. Puig was embarrassingly bad, and their cy guy gets his ass handed to him not once but twice in the same series by a rookie kid.
    The kid shut down the billion dollar LU, and Kershaw got outdueled and beaten, twice. Sorry, but that don’t happen to Bob Gibson. Koufax neither, unless he’s facing Marichal.
    I know LA looks great on paper but I don’t care. You still gotta walk btw the lines and play ball.
    Speaking of which…how many days…

    • Nipper said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:20 am

      You must be drinking strong dark roasted coffee this morning. No cream or sugar.

  5. unca_chuck said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:34 am

    Yeah, I was envious, Dawg, knowing you were in there. When Gore busted through the hole late in the 4th quarter, well, that’s what you live for when you go to games. Musta been awesome.

    Sabes will do what Sabes will do. It’s fricking early December. I don’t know what his plans are, but anything coming out of his mouth now know means absolutely nothing. Why would Sabes make any kind of commitment to Pablo now?

  6. salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Pablo’s situation similar to Cain Pence and Tim in that there won’t be many attractive-value packed alternatives. Nothing in the system to replace him. They could go after Chase Headley or …GASP, Hanley Ramirez.
    Otherwise, FA 3b next yr is slim pickings. The Panda is a still a big fan favorite.
    If he has a strong yr, he’ll fetch a huge contract. Doubt he’ll sign anything in ST though unless it’s a very sweet deal.
    Tough to commit to 5-6 yrs, but tough to replace.

  7. snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:08 am

    There may be several reasons for Sabes’ talk on Pablo. Get Pablo to gear up the fitness regimen even more? Take heat off Sabes doing nothing in the offseason so far except re-sign people? Kruk said on radio this am essentially that Pablo had gotten up to 270 at times, and when he’s that heavy, he’s crap at defense. Duh. And, that teammates have been PO’d at him for being out of shape. If his teammates have been PO’d, the fans certainly have a right to be. How many star players in any pro league get away with being out of shape? Isn’t that basic, foundational stuff in 2013 for being a pro athlete that’s getting PAID? The only guys that get paid for being huge are OLinemen, and lots of them are ripped anyway. I’m with BF. This dude has the tools, but has shown unprofessionalism. Like I’ve said before, when he was quoted as basically saying he’d slim down later when he had to, that was bush league. He knows the Giants have squat in the minors to replace him. I say so what. Trade his ass and get some players. Posey to third. Let somebody else have Jenny Craig on speed dial in 2015…

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:22 am

      Agree.

      “If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading.”

      Lao Tzu

    • Chipower9 said, on December 11, 2013 at 1:31 pm

      Uh, actually a few…Prince Fielder to name one. And Cabrerra is not spring chicken for Detroit, either. I would love nothing more than to see Pablo get in, AND STAY IN shape. But I think way too much is being made of it.

  8. blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Bruce Bochy being interviewed at the Winter meetings with Pedro Gomez (ESPN).

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10115923

  9. dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:22 am

    I’m still on the fence about resigning Sandoval but I didn’t have any problem with Sabean’s comments. It is the opening volley in potential negotiations. Nothing wrong with making nice in the lead up to ST.

  10. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Nice drive-by, SanDawg.

  11. wswins said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:42 am

    What should he have said to Baggs?

  12. salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:12 am

    One baseball scout quoted as saying “I don’t care if he’s (Pablo) 427 lbs…He’ll hit 30 hrs in our park.”

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:49 am

      Uhh huh. Like snarkk and Flav said, I hope they get rid of him. Pablo Sandoval is more or less the definition of a free-swinger. He doesn’t take pitches and doesn’t keep his swings confined to the strike zone. He makes enough contact to justify the habit, but his success is totally at the mercy of the BABIP gods. Sandoval definitely has a strong arm, but he hasn’t been very accurate with it this year with a new career high for throwing errors. The good news is that he’s always been surprisingly agile for a big guy, so he can make acrobatic plays. However, how many more big Mac and Taco Bell runs will that last?

      By some experts, he is rated ONLY the 10th best 3rd baseman in MLB. Yeah, he has been one of the best as well, but who knows what to expect year to year? I would easily take Chase Headley, Martin Prado, Manny Machado or Kyle Seager for fat ass.

      • Chipower9 said, on December 11, 2013 at 1:42 pm

        No way in hell I swap Pablo for any of the guys you mention, Blade. None of them average the HR/RBIs of Pablo (some are close), and none have an OPS of .800 plus (as Pablo does). It doesn’t matter…BOOK IT…Pablo will sign his next deal with the Giants, and I give it better than 50% odds that it is before the 2014 season starts.

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:07 pm

        Chi, would you give better than 50% odds that once Pablo signs a huge LT deal with Sabes, that Pablo won’t turn into the Michelin man again within the span of a season and a half?…

      • chipower9 said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:42 pm

        snarkk – I have no idea if he will “balloon” or not. But, I would roll the dice with Pablo over any of the names mentioned as his replacement by Blade, etc.

        As I said earlier…and you can BOOK IT NOW. Pablo will be resigned to a multi-year deal, AND I think there is a good chance it happens before the start of the 2014 campaign.

  13. salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:17 am

    John Shea writes Giants did ask about Trumbo several times but Angels insisted on SP.

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 11:17 am

      I don’t see what the Dbacks gave up that the Giants couldn’t have similarly provided to get a guy that by default will hit 30 HRs as a LFer…

      • salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 12:44 pm

        Escobar perhaps. But Angels wanted guy ready now.
        Ironically they drafted Skaggs And traded him to Az in the Haren deal. Same deal they got Corbin.

      • salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 12:53 pm

        I’d wager Sabes would loved to have given them Kickham or Surkamp.

      • Chipower9 said, on December 11, 2013 at 1:38 pm

        They wanted STARTING pitchers. They got two (albiet, ones who have not thrown an entire year in the majors). So no, the Giants were NOT in the position to make that deal…they DID NOT have the goods.

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:38 pm

        Chi, Skaggs and Eaton are damaged goods, essentially. Skaggs has barely pitched in MLB, 13 starts with a 5.3+ ERA, and teams down on him because of lost velocity in AAA. Giant’s Escobar hasn’t pitched in MLB, but he hasn’t been injured or questioned about health as far as I know. Skaggs and Escobar don’t seem much different to me at this point. Hell, for 30 HRs in LF, I’d trade Blackburn and Williamson and throw in Voggy for current starter. Trumbo has proven he gets it done in MLB…

  14. salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Drew Stubbs anyone? ;)

  15. unca_chuck said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Yeah, that’s part of it, Salty. Pablo has been able to play, and more importantly, hit at a high level even though a little on the portly side.

  16. unca_chuck said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Posey at 3rd? Man, I don’t know about that. Guess we all get to see how the season goes. I mean, it was a little more than a year ago where Sandoval parked 3 in the stands in the WS . . .

  17. twinfan1 said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Without getting into “should or should not” on Pablo and before I boogie out of here again- Panda has all the leverage. See ya.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:50 am

      I knew Flav’s diabolical plan to get you to comment would work. ;-)

  18. wswins said, on December 11, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    San Francisco Giants ‏@SFGiants 18m
    Join #SFGiants Assistant GM Bobby Evans today at 1:30pm, live from the #WinterMeetings – Ask your question using #AskBobby

    Retweeted 6 times

  19. Macdog said, on December 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    Looks like Cory Hart is off the table and going to the Mariners, who also are getting Logan Morrison in a trade.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:24 pm

      I never liked Hart. So many uncertainties with his two knees. Morrison is a space cadet with his frickin’ Twitter account. Meh to him as well. Nevertheless, I think they are great fits (good calculated risks) in the Pacific Northwest.

  20. snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    With all these outfielders getting traded and moved from place to place, and the Giants issuing cricket sounds, I’m getting near the point that for a LFer, I’d be satisfied with an adult male under 30 that hits RHed and wears a jock…

  21. Chipower9 said, on December 11, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Do not be surprised if they don’t sign a LFer at all, and go into the season with Blanco and Perez. Bochy was on record (video on CSNBA) as saying he would be down with that.

    If the Giants do sign a LFer…it will not be a big bopper. It will be more along the lines of De Aza (who Blade mentioned earlier).

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:22 pm

      I think De Aza would satisfy just about everyone. Hope it is true. Regardless, I trust in Sabean to do the right thing. Usually does.

  22. unca_chuck said, on December 11, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Like Snarkk said, any warm-blooded creature will do at this point.

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:04 pm

      Seriously, the way Sabean operates, you’d think the Giants were about 29th in MLB team revenues, not 5th, and that if he makes one mistake financially and gets an OFer that makes $8M a year for 3 years that busts, after giving up a good minor league pitching PROSPECT, the organization is going to implode. Beane has done 4 major deals in the span of two weeks, reconfiguring his entire pitching staff for the better, yet has 1/3 the budget Sabes has to work with. I guess Sabes fully believes that “freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose”, and he somehow has a lot to lose by getting a decent LFer. I don’t see how this team as presently constituted is a WS contender…

      • chipower9 said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:43 pm

        You didn’t seem to have a problem with how he operates when they won the series in 10 and 12….

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:41 pm

        Nope. But, that’s over. I want more, greedy bastard that I am. We don’t have that dominant pitching anymore, Chi…

      • WilcoJoe said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:51 pm

        I like the Kris Kristofferson tie in, nice!

    • salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:09 pm

      In that case, why not be happy with Perez? Young, great speed, excellent defender, works hard…may still have upside as a hitter. Im

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:35 pm

        I get ya Salty. He’s got no MLB track record is my issue, barely a sip of coffee with the big club. He’s a 5th OFer in my book until proven. Looks to have good D skills and really good arm, tho…

  23. blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Chi, regarding your 1:42pm, I guarantee you that fat ass reverts to form after signing the mega deal. Hopefully, Sabes isn’t the sap that falls for his BS “found religion” line. He is who he is and this particular leopard wont change his spots.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:41 pm

      Blade, why so much hate for fatso? I agree that dude should take his profession seriously but you seem to take his girth personally.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:01 pm

        Not hate (and sorry if it seems that way), but it just seems like he is wasting God given talent. So many other players that have 1/4 his talent, would give their left nut to have the opportunity he has. Especially galling is the fact he is from a 3rd world country and I’ve met so many of them that would say much worse about him.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:04 pm

        I had to read your comment twice and only noticed the “fatso” during the second reading . . . Umm, much nicer term. :-)

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:06 pm

        haha, yeah. I agree with you though. Sandoval could be something really special with some discipline and commitment.

    • chipower9 said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:45 pm

      First, I will say I have a problem with the contineued “fat ass” comments, etc. But whatever…it’s a free country and blog, we can all voice our opinions. I choose to roll the dice with fat ass…

      • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:02 pm

        Well, sorry you are offended. No idea he was one of your favorite players. Nevertheless, I feel he is wasting God given talent (as I just said to Dirt).

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:44 pm

        Hey, Kruk says his own teammates this year were pissed at Panda for the blubber. If his own mates are pissed, I don’t think blade calling him fat is that big a deal…

  24. Chico said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Rules committee votes to eliminate home plate collisions via MLB Network. Wow.

    • Chico said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:29 pm

      *rules to prohibit intentional collisions at the plate will be enforced in 2014.*

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:57 pm

        It surprises me that this would be enforced immediately. I sort of figured Bud would have to pilot program in the minors or something.

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:41 pm

      I know I was in the minority not decrying the prior “rule” allowing collisions, but I’m cool with the change if they’re up for it. I don’t think it will impact games much, so why not go with the safer way? What’s the penalty if someone blocks the plate, or someone craters the catcher who is off the plate? Realistically for the Giants, IMO it doesn’t change much on defense because Buster has obviously been told to be safe — he’s been practically standing on the mound when there is a throw coming in from the OF for a potential play at the plate…

  25. Chico said, on December 11, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Baggs is saying that the Giants might be in the works for an outfielder. Possibly today. ‘Stay tuned’

    • salty said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:11 pm

      Maybe Jeff Baker. (Stifling yawn)

      • James said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:34 pm

        875 OPS against lefties is why.

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:51 pm

        Baker? Satisfies my male and wearing a jock requirement. And breathing. That’s about it…

      • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:15 pm

        Just read – Gmen have NO interest in Baker.

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:38 pm

      Maybe we’re taking A-Rod for third and convert Panda to LF?… ;)

  26. Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    I’m not surprised that Selig and the owners woke up to the need for a rules change with home plate. But it didn’t have anything to do with Buster or anything Bochy or Matheny had to say. There were 765 million reasons that Selig pulled the trigger so quickly on a rules change a year after dumbass Torre said there was no reason to make a change……..

  27. snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Bartolo Colon to Mets — 2 years, $20M.
    Looks like that 50-game PEDs penalty was a good investment. Is there any other industry where you if do drugs and get busted, or do anything against the rules and get caught — then that hugely ENHANCES your career and compensation? Politics?…

  28. zumiee said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Interesting how much can change in a few years, with a few injuries; a few years ago Kemp was seen as a future superstar. Now, the Dodgers basically let it be known that he was available for trade, and the rest of baseball reacts with a “meh.”

    • zumiee said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:13 pm

      I reallize that the Dodgers and Giants would never do a Kemp deal, but in some parallel universe where it could happen, it would be interesting.

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:32 pm

        tell me more about that parallel universe? and am I in it now?

  29. snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Interesting article by Baggs with a lot of tidbits of Giant info.

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/giants-notes-posey-gets-stronger-gaudin-not-returning-etc

    They aren’t bringing back Gaudin. No reason stated. Vegas?
    Seems ridiculous to me not to bring Gaudin back, he was a top 3 starter for 1/3 or more of the season. The guy was nails…

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:31 pm

      Can’t argue with you there, Snarkk. I’ll be they just don’t want any calls from the ER, or from lawyers, or from lawyers (female especially) in the ER.

    • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:35 pm

      getting busted as a groper at random ER’s, while you’re wasted, was probably too much of a hit to the “Giants Way.” Also, if that shit is going down you can bet there were other things the dude did that never hit the press (shocker) that soured the Giants brass on the dude.
      Remember, he didn’t want to get shut down in sept, he openly questioned it. They were done with him then when it was clear they were out of it.
      Another shitty job of investigative journalism by our beat writers.

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:48 pm

        Exactly, and Baggs is the best of them. Didn’t even mention Vegas in the article. None of these beat guys wants to ruffle feathers, i.e., their “access”, and I suppose their free grub in the press box. Gaudin was nails for what, 8 or 9 starts, friggin Kruk and Kuip were creamin their pants over him. Then, he had one bad one, then hurt, and then “poof” — now gone for no apparent reason. Wasn’t he a former player under Bochy at some point for Diego? Meanwhile, Voggy sucked balls until he got hurt, yet now he’s back for nearly as much coin as he was going to get under his option. Headscratch here…

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:40 pm

      The way read it, there is a slim chance of Gaudin returning; it is not a flat-out no, counselor.

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:49 pm

        I hope you’re right Pawlie. How’d the Syracuse writing contest come out?…

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:58 pm

        Did not win, but was a finalist at a pinkies-out event. La-di-fecking-da.

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:13 pm

        Hey, hope you got some free food out of it…

  30. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    This is a meager defense, but I am positing that Sabean’s caution will prove prudent. Sure, he could make a splash with some expensive, neon-light signing or trade. Cui bono? The Ellsbury-Colon-Cano-et-Deal-du-Jour moves are foolish. True, they will sell tickets, but they would not make sense for our team. Beyond that, I have few thoughts, since I am not a good GM in fantasy leagues or on this blog.

    Go, Giants!

    Lake-effect snow warnings! And I’m headed straight into it tomorrow. To Old Forge.

  31. snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Blade, I’m cool with your de Aza character. Never heard of him B4, I don’t pay much attention to the AL. My quick look at his stats shows he strikes out a lot, but I like the pop at 17 HRs with the .264 BA. If he can catch a can o corn fly, sign him up…

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:23 pm

      Snarkk, he regressed last year (his BA in 2012 was much better), so that coupled with the White Sox having a hot shot phenom, means he is expendable. Seriously, I hope the this rumor has legs . . .

  32. Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    Jeff Baker is not the worst idea for a platoon guy. He’s not a home run hitter so his brain and psyche won’t get AT&T’d and as James pointed out above, he has a career .875 OPS as RHB vs LHP’s. That’ll work. And anything that involves Blanco not playing every day is all good in my hood.
    As I have painstakingly pointed out, even with Blanco we barely have 8 position players who qualify as starters. We need more and Baker would work for me……

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:04 pm

      BF, you’re a pretty big dude. Can you play LF and catch a pop fly? If yes, submit your resume…

      • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:07 pm

        I can take a mean angle on the ball but I’m not certain I’ve got the foot speed (anymore!) to catch up to the hardest hit line drives. I tell ya, between me and Stone Hands Lewis, we coulda combined our powers to make an all star. :)

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:18 pm

        Just pull your cap down low over your forehead and say you’re Pat the Bat back from Tokyo, your foot is all better from Geisha massages. Sabes will shoot you a contract for $5M plus incentives…

  33. Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    I’m not sure how many bro’s Panda has and maybe you guys have already read this, but I just read that his brother Michael has become a certified agent. Is this the same brother who started cooking for him last year? If so, could there be a more transparent ruse going on here? What a joke. After he slims down for spring training and Sabean showers him with 75 million I bet that brother starts adding some better tasting shit to the menu….

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:10 pm

      Showering a dude who has acted unprofessionally with respect to his fitness several times with zillions of dollars instead of trading him for players is what you get when your farm system has no position players worth a crap that give you alternatives…

  34. Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    I’m tired of seeing tweeted pics of a *slimmed down Panda*. Fuck that, been there done that. This isn’t a guy with a food addiction, obviously, this is a guy with no self control who is once again focused on amping up for a money run. He’s like a boxer working out for a big fight. But baseball doesn’t work that way. I hope Sabean understands this….

  35. blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    I hate to pile on, but Panda seems to be good for at least one stint on the DL every year, and you have to worry in particular about his wheels. A hamstring injury landed him on the DL last year (?), and a foot injury did the trick this year. More recently, he’s had some pain in his back (weight related? Who knows . . . ). His resume sounds more and more like a first baseman we had – the “Thongster” himself, Aubrey Huff. Ya know what I mean – one good year, one bad year, one good year, one bad year. In short, no one knows which Panda is going to show up, but go count ‘em – he has more mediocre years than good ones.

  36. Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    this is what I wrote about Choo last Sept after Pence signed his deal:
    “By the way, that’s why we won’t be doing any “Woo Hoo” for signing Shin-Soo Choo this off season. Shin-Soo’s agent jizzed in his pants when he saw what Pence got, he will get his client at least that and possibly more…….”
    So now I read Texas has a 7 year deal on the table to him that is slightly less than the deal Ellsbury signed.
    So it turns out I was way LOW on what Choo would get? Wow.

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:40 pm

      Where the HELL is TX getting all this money? Nolan Ryan plucked them from bankruptcy what, 5 years ago? Now they spend like they’ve got Walter White meth money. Can the Giants go Chapter 11 and get out from under the dreaded ballpark “mortgage”?… ;)

  37. paulinasia said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Not directed at anyone in particular, but I’m more than mildly surprised at the (sometimes extremely) negative comments about Pablo. I feel like I missed a year or so and suddenly got reinserted into a conversation that mostly had always been positive, except for *some* comments about his weight over the past few years. When most of us are crying out for more run production, dumping Pablo because he’s *fat* seems ridiculous. He has been one of the team’s best run producers and he’s still young. Could he have produced more if he was in shape? Of course that seems likely, but who knows? He is who he is. I don’t know if the player’s union would allow this, but any new contract could possibly have “incentives” or even “stipulations” about his weight. Tony Gwynn… Kirby Puckett… Harmon Killebrew… Gates Brown… Um.. the Babe.. He absolutely should stay in shape. But I could give a rat’s ass if he’s a bit on the portly side. I think when all’s said and done, his numbers in his career will be stellar. The Giants would look pretty stupid letting him go because he’s *fat* and then he goes on to produce somewhere else for 10 more years. Sabean’s comments were right on, imo. If he comes in looking good, we still want him. Any stats guys want to analyze the odds of comparable offensive production from any feasible and likely replacements? The team needs his numbers. They’ve stopped worrying about his weight. I’m cool with that.

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:47 pm

      Paul, there’s one main reason I’m down on Panda. It’s that he’s acted unprofessionally. I can’t speak for blade or BF on their reasons. I can roll with “he’s big because he has an eating disorder” or some such, IF that’s true. Fine, work with that. But, when he effectively said last year that he would lose the weight when he had to, meaning later in prep for his free agency walk season (now), that really frosted my ass. IMO that blew any credibility he had about having an intractable problem with the weight. No doubt he may be the best option in the near term the Giants have at third. But, if he is that unprofessional, I don’t trust him to BE professional after he signs a LT deal at megabucks, to keep himself in shape — and if he doesn’t he WILL wear down, be less effective with the glove at third, and get injured, because we’ve seen it already at a younger age…

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 5:50 pm

      Read my last post on Panda . . . I made it a point to avoid calling him a “fat ass.” ;-)

    • paulinasia said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:06 pm

      I understand, Snarkk. I guess I took those comments he made to be those of youth, not unprofessionalism. Many times in my life, when I was younger but starting to look at the inevitability of getting older, I’ve made comments about my own… what, weaknesses?, vices?, and how I really couldn’t keep doing those things forever…. My comments here and now about Pablo are more about loving the guy as a fun productive player and damn, this team needs his offense…. Yeah, Steve, I see you straining to contain your “fat ass” comments.. noted and appreciated.. :-)

    • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:06 pm

      they haven’t stopped worrying about his weight. It has been an *un-secret* at Sabean’s level all the way through the players that this is a problem. What we don’t know is how they’ve been addressing it with him behind the scenes.
      Krukow had an interesting comment on Panda today on KNBR. He said the most noticeable difference in him when he’s 30 lbs heavier is in his defense. At 245 he’s a gold glove 3rd baseman. And 275 he is below average defensively.
      Also, consider age. Who among us knows anyone in the world who got BETTER as they got older and got fatter? And with a slowing metabolism, he will get bigger. Now, if he’s serious and he’s not just training for a big heavy weight fight and he wants to live like this from now on then I am down with him.
      But I’ve seen these twit-pics before. I know what he’s doing. His brother knows what he’s doing. The beers/whores/sundaes/tacos are but a new contract away, my friend……

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:19 pm

        Me. I got better when I got older, though not fatter. How’s that for a graybeard bragging? (No, Magnus. Leave it alone.)

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:22 pm

        Just to play the contrarian, do y’all make as much stink when someone is perhaps UNDERWEIGHT? A case could have made that Lincecum was. Does anyone mention Pence as being too skinny if he throws weakly to third?

      • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:26 pm

        Pawlie, I haven’t seen Pence with his shirt off (yet) but he’s universally considered to be the current Giants player who hits the weights the hardest. He’s first one in, he’s last one out. He’s ripped. He’s rope. There’s nothing skinny about Pence.
        And Timmy did catch shit about being underweight. But Timmy has also won 2 Cy Young’s. Pablo had an amazing Game 1 of a World Series. He hasn’t done anything close to winning 2 MVP’s. He’s a guy who has tools who we all appreciate who isn’t perfect. He’s at a crossroads. I don’t really feel like watching which way he’s going AFTER Sabean hands him 75 million. Too much at stake that we have no control over……

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm

        someone has a mancrush on Hunter

      • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm

        Have you SEEN his dreamy eyes during a dugout speech!??!?!?!?
        But seriously, the dude is the last guy I’d call skinny on this team. Though I’d like to qualify that with this: I have NOT seen Jeff Baker live (at least I didn’t know it if I did). Nor is he on our team. Yet. Pretty sure he’s white. That’s all I got.

  38. blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    “Just to play the contrarian, do y’all make as much stink when someone is perhaps UNDERWEIGHT?”

    Easy one. Johnny Lemaster. When it rained at Candlestick, he never got wet.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:51 pm

      unlike Marco Scutaro, who will never dry up, in that iconic video and photo from 2012 vs. Cards

  39. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    I may not be as pithy as, say, Loo, or as aggressively fact-laden as Twin or as lyrical as Stix…etc. etc. inter alia, but I can be a provocateur. I knew you guys would go for that piece of cheese on the floor.

    • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 6:57 pm

      P-Koko: I’ve had some wonderful email exchanges with your friend Celeste. A new thread is coming about her poem. Hang in there, this gets better, lol

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm

        cool. I do hope she joins us here. Maybe she can be a Ferret Redux or something like that, though there is only ONE FerretHead! And only one mrmrmrmrbillbillbill.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 7:07 pm

      By the by, how did you do in those writing competitions? Whoops – just saw your response to snarkk.

  40. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    cf. my 5:58pm under Snarkk. I will say this, I really would’ve been at a loss for words if I had won. Tnx for asking. Best part of the event was a blind poet who won for his LETTERS TO BORGES. Gracious and funny. Happy he won. (He gave his guide dog all the credit.)

  41. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    G’night, girls. Possibly a long drive tomorrow.

  42. DJLoo said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    I was just thinking of one of my favorite Splash/Flap creations: “The Bowker Gang”

    Who gets credit for coming up with this great name, and who were the charter members of the Bowker Gang?

    And who among us at that time would’ve thought even one WS title was in the near future, let alone 2?

    • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:13 pm

      Obviously, I will take credit for *The Bowker Gang*. But I appreciate you being coy about it.
      I’ve spent the last half hour re-reading a wonderful poem and an even better short story about the Giants 2013 season and what it was like for the author to become a Giants fan as a young child. I realize my threads have been downers lately. If circumstances change my threads will change……..
      While I’m waiting for that to happen, I choose to make the next thread something fueled by hope yet somehow driven by all of our collective pasts. I haven’t written it yet but I will. Maybe tomorrow. Sometimes you need a *Celeste* to change your mood. Your direction. I was blown away by this author………

      • DJLoo said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:24 pm

        I didn’t remember that it was you, Flav. It’s an all-time great…

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:15 pm

        celestial hope …..good name for a triple crown horse, no?

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:25 pm

        My first kiss came from a girl named Celeste. It was in kindergarten. She sideswiped me unannounced with a quick one in the sandbox. I was dumbstruck, and didn’t know what to do. Had I known better, I’d have asked for a BJ…

  43. willedav said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    Oh pls. The haters are still jonesing on Sandoval. Knock yourselves out, but it’s a tired act. He’s big which makes him an easy target, so sling away if that makes you feel better.
    If he weighed what arias did and stayed there, would you be happy?
    Me, I don’t care what he weighs, I care how he plays. Can any of you tell me what he weighed when he hit .300? Or when he jacked up Verlander? You got no f-ing idea and you know it. 280? 260? no one here knows, and you can’t tell me what his ideal playing weight is either.
    And if Sandoval played like Arias (an 8th place hitter except Crawford is there) and his .690 OPS, Giants would suck.
    But they’d look great in a uni.
    Take your pick.

    • Flavor said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:54 pm

      Absurd post. And jacking 3 hr’s in a World Series gm has been done. You have to do more than that to make your career. And his career so far has been underwhelming when compared against his talent and upside. And I like him, I just don’t want Sabean to give him 75 mil cause he made weight for his heavy weight fight. Willie you strike me as the last guy in the world who would support paying off a guy cause he worked out 3 months for a contract.

      • willedav said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:38 pm

        I wouldn’t do any contract until I saw how he played, and I’m not into long term deals for anyone. And that’s all that matters to me, how he plays. Pops Stargell was humongous and slow as Benjie, and he’s a HOF.
        When he wasn’t helping the team bochy sat him in 2010 and gave Uribe his spot. Worked out fine.
        Sando came back and hit .300 the next year when a lot of guys flat out sucked. Jacking the 3 bombs is hardly the only good thing he’s ever done. 2013 was definitely disappointing, as were a lot of guys.
        The only guy who can judge whether he is fit to play or not is Bochy, not us, and the only guy with the knowledge of training is Groeschner. I’ll trust their judgement over any blogger sitting at home on a couch watching TV.
        Imo the Giants would NOT be better with Arias (who is strictly replacement level) in the LU full time, and those who think so are letting their hatred color the argument. Chase Headley wasn’t any better either, tho if he plays like last year he’d surely be available.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:59 pm

        Who said anything about “. . . the Giants would NOT be better with Arias (who is strictly replacement level) in the LU full time, and those who think so are letting their hatred color the argument?” The aforementioned makes it sound like all of us would just be fine with releasing him. Huh? Of course, we would expect the Giants to trade him for equal value if possible. One other thing (and we all do this), it doesn’t hold water to say, “The only guy who can judge whether he is fit to play or not is Bochy, not us, and the only guy with the knowledge of training is Groeschner. I’ll trust their judgement over any blogger sitting at home on a couch watching TV.” If so, why have a fucking blog? Again, we’ve all used this argument, including myself (grin), but realistically, who gives a fuck? Flavor might as well fold up his tent after that comment Willie. :-)

      • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 10:06 pm

        If Panda’s teammates are ripping him in the clubhouse or amongst themselves, are they “haters”?…

    • snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:11 pm

      Not hating on Panda. Hating on his bullshit, unprofessional attitude. BF’s analogy to making weight for a fight is spot on. Except baseball is not fight night at the MGM Grand. His rotundity, according this morning to Kruk, his friggin TEAMMATES called him on. If his teammates called him on it, we fans certainly can. Carrying 275 on a less than 6′ frame as a pro baseball player is a friggin absolute joke this day and age. I care how he plays, and how much blubber he carries obviously impacts how he plays, because we’ve seen it. Needing an oxygen mask after going first to third without being a smoker (Huff) at Panda’s age is hilarious, and annoying at his pay grade…

  44. DJLoo said, on December 11, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    No one looked better in uniform than Mays, except maybe Frank Robinson, creator of the “high cut” stirrup.
    Mays was more exciting kneeling in the on deck circle than most guys were on the field.

  45. snarkk said, on December 11, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    BTW, I really enjoy the BBOTD being back for winter…

  46. Bozo said, on December 12, 2013 at 5:36 am

    Not much left for Left. I still think a 1 year deal for Mike Morse makes sense, I think last years stats were because of injuries but maybe that’s just me. Speaking of injuries, how about a minor league contract for Grady Sizemore? He wants to try one more year and there’s no room at the Indians.


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