THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Getting Beaten By the Much Better Team

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 8, 2014

Well, that was one that ran true to form, yes? Without Pagan and Sandoval and with literally no one above replacement-level to play DH, the Giants were set up to get destroyed last night. And with Sonny Gray taking the ball tonight, expect another beat d0wn.

Someone on KNBR mentioned this morning that the Giants should skip the DH and just let Bumgarner hit. If you compare Bum’s OPS to the OPS of his replacement-level teammates, it seems on the surface like a good idea. But once you go without a DH you must go without the entire game. And I don’t think anyone wants or needs to see the likes of Casilla busting ass down the first base line again.

I said this at the beginning of the season: the Giants look great this year; as long as not a single player gets injured. Last night, without Pagan and Sandoval, you have a line up stacked with shit. And a line up like that isn’t just a target for a stud team like the A’s to feast on— The Cubs would take us out to the woodshed, too.

_____________________

I’ll give Sabean credit, at least he’s honest. We’ve always joked about wondering whether or not other GM’s even have Sabean’s phone number. Now Sabean is confirming that they do not, in fact, return his phone calls. When Kawakami asked Sabean if he was in on the Sa-marg talks, he replied “We contacted them in the middle of the month and they gave us the impression on 2 or 3 occasions that they’d get back to us. Which they didn’t.”

Ouch. So Sabes and his people can get as far as Theo’s secretary before getting stonewalled. Frankly, it bums me out to find this out……..

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  1. dirtnrocksnomo said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:04 am

    I didn’t catch the game last night so I am spared the sorrow this morning. I liked Kawakami’s piece. The ‘no one is untouchable’ comment was interesting. Including Morse in the long range plan of FAs basically tells me Sandoval is gone so may as well move him for something. With his own personal version of MoneyBall that no other GM in the league appears to buy into, Sabean really has no leverage to make a deal so the club as it exists is what it is.

    Hard to say that a team 9 games over .500 is bad and I wouldn’t necessarily go that far but the club just doesn’t pass the eye test for me.

  2. Irish Kevin said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:16 am

    Well, we all got to see what a good team can do with speed and small ball. A base hit on a bunt, I have not seen that from a Giant since the Bret Butler days. Sad that is not part of the Giants play. Giants are pretty much a swing away ball club. I agree that not having Sandoval is a big hit to the line up. I am not convinced that without Pagan the Giants can’t win.

    • Irish Kevin said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:19 am

      Oh and I know what the stats say, but I just don’t see Pagan as a savior of sorts. Every year that Pagan misses games shows what a glaring weakness the Giants farm system is.

      • Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:27 am

        Kevin – it is not just Pagan, but whenever ANY starter goes down, it highlights how bare the cupboards are on the farm.

        That said, I don’t see Pagan as a “savior,” but outside of Pence, he is the only viable lead-off candidate on the team. And James will be all over this, but I will stick to my guns on this one forever. Pagan DOES seem to provide a spark that no other guy on the team provides. He is SORELY missed on this club…and that is fact.

  3. Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:18 am

    Steve – I bailed after it hit 5-0 last night. I had no idea that the game was on local TV. I was watching the CSN Bay Area feed, and as Zum mentioned, since the A’s were the home team, I was listening to their announcers. Should have made the same call as John and said fuck this…not watching.

    I agree Craig – this team has no margin for injuries (testament to how thoroughly shitty the bench really is), and the loss of Pagan, Pablo, etc. magnifies this.

    My thoughts on the team – I don’t think they are as bad as they have been since the nosedive started (I think the three blown saves against the Sherpasbwas the beginning of it all), but they were playing way over their heads in April and May. The true team rests somewhere between that team who had the best record in baseball for two months, and the worthless POS that we saw last night.

    I still think if they can get Pagan healthy (really, all of the starters) that they can play some good ball.

    One thing for certain, and last night’s game just cemented this for me, the A’s have a DAMNED GOOD club.

  4. Irish Kevin said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:38 am

    This morning on the Murph and Mac show KNBR commented the 3 bench guys Hicks, Arias and Adrianza all batting under .200. Yep one hell of a bench!!

    • Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:29 am

      Really? What fucking rock have the geniuses Murph and Mac been hiding under??? We’ve been talking about the sucktitude of this bench for months on The Flap.

    • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:42 am

      Without getting into a debate about Blanco ( I won’t), some moron on Pav’s blog thought that Gregor should try to emulate Arias’ approach,, he wasn’t kidding.

      • Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:57 am

        That is funny as hell, Twin. Arias collected his FIRST extra base hit of the year the other day (someone – maybe snarkk had to let me know that he hit ONE). Sigh….

  5. twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:24 am

    *Monday is funny day. It’s my only funny day. So today you just get my usual incisive and spot-on remarks..
    * Good game last night. Clutch performances, thrilling comebacks, everything one might ask for in a rousing Gin Rummy game.
    *On that other contest:
    *Good to see J.C.’s ERA go down
    * Arias raised his average to .183. It’s unclear if that’s a good thing.
    *The umpires- all 87 close calls and borderline strikes went the A’s way. That’s my honest and unbiased opinion
    * I HATE HATE the Dodgers and the A’s. How much do I hate them? More than Kale Chips and Vlad the Impaler
    * Crawford made two really really dumb, stupid ,bonehead decisions last night . But that’s OK, he’s a cool looking dude
    * I was kidding about hating the A’s and Bums. That would be silly and juvenile. BTW, have you ever read “Dr. Dan the Bandage Man”? It’s really neat-o..
    * Finally, I do these quick hits on the fly, so give me credit for sucking quickly..uh, let me rephrase that..

    • unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:47 am

      Sucking hardly?

      Bleh. Games like these made me look forward to football season. Not much to glean out of this game other than every tiny mistake on our part leads to a run. Or three. While we get our hits all nicely spread out over the course of the game as to cause as little impact as possible.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:53 am

        Look, Bochy is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic with his lineups, but as you know, at the end of the day, if he just stays the course it’s like the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It is what is…

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:47 am

        Agreed. The re-arranging of chairs is about the best he can do, given the hand he’s been dealt, and barring infusion of new talent. Although he should try something creative once in a while to change the over and over insanity aspect of it. He did send some runners and hit/run tries last night. Not that it did much good…

      • DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:43 pm

        Having said that, going forward, they can only play one game at a time…

  6. willedav said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:54 am

    Worst part of the all this is having to listen to deification of Beane and A’s.

    Not going into long post about why I don’t buy either, but I will say this: Up to a month ago all Giants fans were in bask mode and pretty convinced SF was headed in right direction. Despite sub par starts from a few vets Giants were doing all the little things right and clicking on all cylinders, having whipped up on likes of Dodgers Braves and Cards on the road while building best record in the NL.

    We’ll see how long A’s are able to sustain their good stretch and if it ultimately turns into post season success…something that obviously would be news to Beane and his org.

    • Irish Kevin said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:59 am

      that was excellent!!

  7. paulinasia said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:58 am

    Sabean seems to have his own kind of operating system. Sometimes it works magic, as we’ve seen and enjoyed the fruits of it. Other times, it seems his O/S has completely crashed while other GMs are dashing around making plays. He is who he is, and we alternately suffer for it or live in knowing-dude head-nod land. But it kind of pisses me off that he *seemed* to indicate he learned his lesson last year, not strengthening the bench enough to overcome Pagan’s absence most of last season. *Seemed* to. Here we are, deja vu all over again, and the bench actually seems worse than last year. Right. Bench players are not the weakest link, not the most important thing, etc. But when at least one, and often two, key starters are out, the team seems to face plant a bit, and the bench is surely a part of that. I’m also thinking, maybe it’s just harder than it seems to line up a good bench. So, fuck the bench. The starters need to do their jobs; and someone new might be needed if the current starters ain’t getting it done. Personally… I’m looking forward to see what Sabes does in the next 3 weeks and beyond.

    • Irish Kevin said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:12 am

      Yeah, I don’t know where I read it or heard it, but Blanco stated that he was not prepared for being a starter last year. But this year he was ready if called upon to be a starter. Good job Gregor.

      • Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:23 am

        He may have “been ready” to be a starter, but Blanco is not, nor IMNSHO will he ever be, a starter (well, a quality one, anyway). I like the dude’s energy, but really…he is a 4th or 5th OFer. Expecting him to be in there every day AND to lead-off was a joke.

  8. Nipper said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:00 am

    Someone mentioned the Giants lineup as stacked with shit. I concur.

  9. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:29 am

    The A’s are the same as the Dodgers. All this wind up their skirts is peachy (and nauseating), but neither have done anything in the past 25 years.

    Until that changes, they are still on the outside looking in. Doesn’t mean shit to the Giants, but at least we can hang on to that.

    And not that this team is out of it, but holy shit, the hitting is atrocious these days. 4 shutouts in the last 8 games? IT’S THE HITTING. They can’t seem to get the team all healthy at the same time.

  10. salty said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:40 am

    Well, Sabean has to bear the brunt for the state of things going forward. And it don’t look puurty.
    Since bowtie, the emphasis has been on developing within so they could remain competitive every year.
    I’m repeating myself, but the problem is the drafts of late haven’t produced much. It screws them two ways; no reinforcements and no quality trade bait. So it will be tough to remake this team without streeeeetching that budget…..

  11. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Giants have played the worst ball in MLB for the past month+. Nobody’s worse. The A’s pushers on the FM sports station here this morning were actually feeling sorry for Bochy to have to push that lineup out there. My first thought was that’s condescending. Then, after a bit, I thought that it was pretty accurate. The lineup is bad. As others above said, and before ad nauseum, the woes of the farm system are starting to tell. When starters are hurt, there’s virtually no help from this bench. A team is not just the core top 4 or 5 guys that are the meat of the lineup. It’s the bottom 3, too. Hicks, Arias, Blanco, Hector, come on now. That’s AAAA material in the hitting dept. And, Panik is trying, but the guy hasn’t been up long enough to know where the payroll office is. Crawford for some reason has just hit the wall against RHBs. Maybe he’s just tired. The supposed big hitters making the big coin have also laid down. Anyway, until they show some signs of coming out of this, I don’t see this improving to a .550 club or so without Pagan back. Sad to say, and hard to explain, but the evidence is there that he’s absolutely critical to this club hitting…

  12. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:50 am

    I would expect some moves by Sabean. Some players have to go, get new ones in here to jump start this mess. HIcks DFA. Why is he here? Sure, get Scutaro up for moral support, if nothing else. Panda should be traded, get some very good prospects in exchange to juice the system. I don’t see him as a LT renewal at the high price he will command to one or more idiotic teams, so deal him now for talent. It will hurt, but not for long. Waiting for Pagan to get better with a bad disk may be like waiting for Godot, so make moves regardless…

    • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:16 am

      Snarkk, unless they’re out of it in 3 weeks they won’t be trading Panda. I’m sure you know that.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:27 am

        I don’t know that. They could be out of it in three weeks, or at least out of it in Sabes’ mind. Or not. Regardless, to me it makes the most sense. Posey goes to third, which is where he should be anyway and will be eventually. They get prospects they desperately need. Some AL team is going to pay him a lot of money in the offseason with a 4+ year deal. And the Giants won’t match, so they end up with a compensatory 1st round pick, which in present value is worth near nada, IMO. I think that bad scenario is very possible. So I would work now to avoid it. Either sign him before the deadline, or trade him. Sabean traded Matt Williams and weathered the S-storm, so he can trade Panda…

      • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:34 am

        Are you saying they would trade Panda even if they were *in* it at the deadline? No fucking way. Have a nice day.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:43 am

        I’m not saying Sabes would, or will. I’m saying that if Panda’s not signed by then, Sabes should, and I would…

  13. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:52 am

    As for the Pen, it’s shaky. Have they tired already? Lopez seems MIA. Looking at the replay, Gutierrez comes in and first pitch throws a hit me fastball right down the middle above the knees — crushed for a double. Huh? Is that the pitch plan?…

  14. Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:19 am

    First two months they were clicking on all cylinders. So, they have proven that they CAN play very good baseball. As I said earlier…I think they were overachieving that first two months…that and almost all of the breaks were going their way. Now? They cannot hit (esp. clutch hits W/RISP), field, throw and pitch worth a shit in the conifines of one game.

    I still think they are better than they have shown the last month. If they get healthy I still think they have it in them to make some noise. If Sabes makes some moves, I don’t expect anything earth-shattering (like acquiring the likes of a Samardja or Price)…they just don’t have the trade pieces (empty cupboard in the minors) and the boys who control the purse strings are probably hesitant to throw a ton of money at the current product.

    I am SO tired of this shit (and yes…the last month has been SHIT), and am ready to see these guys at least play some sound fundamental ball. IS THAT REALLY ASKING TOO MUCH?

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:39 am

      Chi, to me the key is that they’ve stopped hitting HRs. Dead. Cold. Stop. The Saturday comeback win in Diego they had home runs, the Sunday win not. They don’t have the hitters, it appears, that can consistently string together hits in a row game after game to drive in several runs in an inning without a dinger in there somewhere. Remember that when they were hot, a ton of the runs were scored with with 2 down, and that can’t continue all year. They are mostly aggressive hitters that don’t take pitches, take walks, or work hard to build up a rally inning. So, they make virtually every opposing starter look like Cy Young. Contrast that to the A’s who really work the pitcher, then pounce on the mistake pitch. I don’t know why the HRs were so heavy early on, I don’t know why they’ve left. Hicks was an aberration apparently. The bottom and bench hitters are essentially hitting .250 or worse with bad OBPs, so if an inning has started nicely ahead of them, chances are they kill it before the inning can get rolling to score 2 or 3, let alone 4 or 5. Getting a run in from 2nd with nobody out is a minor miracle these days…

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on July 8, 2014 at 12:41 pm

        That’s really the difference in their philosophies right? Beane values and demands walks at the lower levels as the players come through their system. Walks can result in runs even when bats go cold. Sabean values swinging and “doing damage.” Walks? Not so much. Bats go cold. Runs are nonexistent.

      • Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 12:58 pm

        Yep…you are pretty much dead-on in your synopsis. We all knew the unworldly numbers with RISP could not go on, and sure as hell, they did not. I am trying to stay positive and cautiously optimistic, as I do believe they can make a run when they get healthy. Time will tell and for now, I am not searching out any ledges…

  15. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 11:59 am

    Getting a runner TO 2nd with 0 outs is a major miracle.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 12:11 pm

      That, too…

  16. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    I guess Prince Fielder’s neck is getting better . . . http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/bodyfielderqa/texas-rangers-prince-fielder-takes-all-espn-magazine-body-issue

  17. willedav said, on July 8, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Don’t know where all this doom BS is going but…the A’s I saw last night couldn’t touch Vogs. They were 0-8 with RISP when he left, and I watched him K Donaldson and Moss, their 2 top middle order guys. Vs. Moss I think Posey called 3 consecutive high hard ones and he couldn’t do anything with them.. VOGS, I remind you.

    This time last week they were getting their asses handed to them by Detroit. Their closer gave up the walk off salami to that noted HOFer Rajai Davis. Then Porcello (or Scherzer?) threw I think the first shutout of his career against them. Ultimately 3 Game Sweep, Tigers.

    Let me ask this: what part of the team would you fix first? At the point you assume the season is over (now or later) and Sabes is in full sale mode, what do you want for say Sandoval and Cain, plus Morse and whomever? What is the most pressing need?

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 1:22 pm

      Yeah, Voggy was always in trouble, but got out of it mostly. His usual MO. I don’t see a big problem with the pitching, especially starters, right now. Unless somebody in the rotation goes down for any length of time, then it’s trouble — Petit would have to cover, he’s hit and miss. Pen looks shaky, but might right itself. I’ve got no confidence in Romo, he needs a DL stint to get his elbow and/or mind right.

      The major issue is the non-scoring. Can’t score, can’t win. I don’t know if this can be fixed during the season — kinda like changing tires while going 65 mph on the freeway. For Panda, I’d want (1) a starting OFer with speed and decent OBP to leadoff if Pagan is done for the year, or a very good AA starting pitcher prospect; plus (2) a very good to top AA OFer prospect, and (3) if you could get a throw in middle infielder or 3rd baseman from A ball, great. Too much? Maybe not if the other team thinks they can sign him to a deal after the rental.

      I wouldn’t trade Cain or Morse. Cain’s deal is too big, wouldn’t get much for him, IMO. Nobody but Petit to take his place. Morse doesn’t have a lot of trade value IMO, he’s a FA at the end of the year anyway so if they don’t want to renew him for a LT deal, no biggie…

  18. Irish Kevin said, on July 8, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    Twin and Snarkk, I think they could trade Panda for some talent. I remember when the Giants trade Matt Williams. Everyone was in an uproar over that. But it was the right move. So yeah I don’t think Panda is untouchable.

  19. dirtnrocksnomo said, on July 8, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    If they can’t get Sandoval for something close to the Pence deal, which I don’t think they can, they should move him for all they can get. I don’t know about Posey at 3b but maybe buy low on SD’s Hudley in the off season.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 1:45 pm

      With Panda’s injury history and weight issues, it’s inconceivable to me that Baer and company will pay Panda $90M over 5 years. They already lowballed him with that 3 year offer and his agent spit on it. His performance so far this season should not give them warm fuzzies to jack the offer up to Pence territory. Is he a good 3d baseman? Yes, good to very good when healthy. Is he an elite player? No. Career .294/.347/.470/.816. Where’s the power? 100 HRs to now, beginning late 2008 = 5+ years. Career: 1 HR every 29 ABs. OK, but not great for 3d base. His situational ABs and hacking are maddening sometimes, but that’s who he is. We keep waiting for him to get back to the super 2009 Panda, and it doesn’t happen. I have no problem cutting him lose to start replenishing young talent in the organization…

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on July 8, 2014 at 1:55 pm

        We agree for the most part. I think he’ll get far more than 5 @ $90M and I would rather see SF offer Morse in the short term and hold onto Belt long term. Use some of that money not going to Sandoval for more starting pitching.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 2:00 pm

        I like it, Dirt.
        4 of 5 SF starters are getting old arms, and there’s no sure fire replacements in the minors. FA pitchers require big cash now. Unlikely Sabes can steal another Huddy for a 2 year deal at “only” $23M…

  20. Flabloxxxl said, on July 8, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Writing in MB as DH for the last two games v. the Athletics is a bold suggestion indeed, considering those games will be played under NL rules.

  21. Bozo said, on July 8, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Theo Epstein probably still hates Sabes from when Theo’s days with the Pads, and/or he’s still pissed at Boch for not beating the Yamks in the WS. Or more likely, the Cubs had already scouted the Giants and wanted to do their shopping at a different store.

  22. Bozo said, on July 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    It sounds like folks are jumping on the GH, Blow up the Team, bandwagon. OK, trade Pablo. His contract would make him more of a rental to the team making the trade, at best you’d get a Zack Wheeler type. Not bad, but hardly stocking the farm and if you’re going with Arias the rest of the year, well you just waved the white flag. So back to GH’s plan in trading about half the team to stock the farm, well it just seems to me that you just waved the white flag not only for this year but for years to come. Is that what folks want?
    If you really want to stock the farm and maybe not complain about the team for the next 3 years, you gotta trade Bum (I wouldn’t do it) or Posey (If Florida would go for it, I would do it). Really, offering up possible rentals or guys on the DL won’t get you much (IMO).

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm

      If an AL team traded for Panda, and I think that is where he’d go, they’d work out a LT deal for him most likely, and have that in place or at least a framework of it along with the trade. That would be the way for SF to get the most talent in exchange…

      • Bozo said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:04 pm

        Yes it would, but sign and trade deals seem to be somewhat rare these days. But yes, that would get the most back, although I still don’t think it would be enough for throwing in the towel.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:18 pm

        Sorry, Bozo. I was unclear, I didn’t mean the Giants would sign him, then trade. The trade would go down with Panda’s agent and the other team having basically the LT contract framed out that he would sign once the trade was completed. That stuff happens, they can avoid whatever tampering BS might be out there, since the Giants wouldn’t put up a fuss about that…

      • Bozo said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:55 pm

        No snarkk, I think I was the one unclear. I guess I meant a trade and sign deal, which still seem rare to me when a player turns down an offer from his current team. Panda has what 7 years ML time with the Giants? Does he have a say on the trade? As an example, would he want to go to Toronto? I don’t know man. in my eyes we are a CFer that can get on consistently, away from the playoffs (that and maybe a utility infielder).
        As Blade points out below, I think we have some players we can trade at the end of the year, supplemented with FAs I think we can make a run for the next couple of years. Maybe that’s where we really disagree.

  23. Chipower9 said, on July 8, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    I am not a big proponent of “blowing up the team and stocking the farm.” We all know that most minor league talent is a crapshoot. So, you blow up your team for the next couple of years (potentially) to get what “may be” major league talent. Sorry, but I don’t want to watch a shit team for the next several years while I hope that the minor leaguers that they dealt for make the team a contender. Plus, that has not been Sabean’s MO, so I just don’t see them going down that path.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:13 pm

      To me, it looks like 2015 and onward for a while will be a crapshoot anyway. IMO only Belt, Bum, Pence, and Posey are untouchable. Pagan stays, nobody will want his bulging disk. Nobody coming up from the minors has been ID’d as a position player that will make it. The bench sucks. Voggy probably gone. Huddy, Cain, Timmy all with arm mileage, and it’s iffy at best to get starter replacements from below (Crick, Blackburn?). Panda maybe/likely gone in the offseason, and if he leaves, only a pick for an unknown college kid as compensation. Morse a FA wanting a multi year deal. Too early now to see if they should do that. 2nd base an unknown still, unless Sabes trades now to get one. I don’t think all that’s dooming, it’s real. They’ll need to fill holes with costly FAs because of the farm suckage. Fortunately, they have the revenue to do it…

  24. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    Germans blitz Brazil 7-1 to go to the WCup final.
    Worst WCup loss ever by Brazil.
    Can the Germans swing bats?…

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:51 pm

      Making the internet rounds–

      Meanwhile, in a German pub:

      Franz: “Whoa, did you hear? We scored seven goals against Brazil!”
      Gerd: “Nein!”
      Franz: “Nah. Just seven.”…

  25. Macdog said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    CF Blanco
    RF Pence
    1B Belt
    C Posey
    3B Sandoval
    DH Morse
    LF Colvin
    2B Panik
    SS Crawford.

    Maybe they should hold MadBum’s start another day so they can get his bat in the lineup.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:42 pm

      Chi isn’t going to like the leadoff spot.
      Why not leave Pence in leadoff? So far, he’s done well there.
      The same thing over and over comes to mind…

  26. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    Gmen TOP 10 PROSPECTS – Up, Neutral or Down based upon most recent results (in my opinion)

    1. Kyle Crick, rhp – Up (back to back good starts w/10 shutout innings. Nice.)
    2. Edwin Escobar, lhp Down (July 4th, he got roasted for 6 runs and 10 hits. ERA of 5.31. Pfffttt!).
    3. Chris Stratton, rhp Down (Disaster outing on July 4th, giving up 7 runs. College was no advantage to him)
    4. Adalberto Mejia, lhp Down (Opposition is raking against him at .301 rate. Ouch!)
    5. Mac Williamson, of Down . . . Maybe a neutral if I was kind (TJ surgery, but he was doing well before injury, which is hopeful)
    6. Christian Arroyo, ss Up (Beginning to rake in Low A ball)
    7. Heath Hembree, rhp – Down (hit rate is too high; WHIP sucks as well)
    8. Ty Blach, lhp – Up (although he allowed 4 runs in his last start. SO rate is “Meh”)
    9. Joe Panik, 2b – Up (with big club getting comfy last few games)
    10. Clayton Blackburn, rhp – Up (Excellent July 4th outing)

    Just my take, but I look at these guys as just trading chips. Always have. Only exceptions are those prospects that have CAN”T MISS written all over them, e.g., Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, etc. Consequently, I never have an issue with Sabes using these guys as trade fodder.

    Blow the team up? Hilarious. Way too soon for that and besides, “blowing up” denotes wholesale changes, which I don’t necessarily see happening (in mid-season anyway). I will say it again, the team has to show Sabes it’s not a walking collective zombie or he wont help out. Why should he? As I have always maintained, that’s like putting a silver saddle on a jack ass – it’s still a jack ass. Conversely, if the team shows a pulse in the next few weeks before the trade deadline, then he will try to put a deal together. By the by, when teams don’t return his phone calls and/or they don’t dicker with him, it’s because they look at our farm system and laugh. It has nothing to do with his ability as a trade negotiator. You don’t have the longest tenure in MLB by being a doofus when trading. Want examples? Then go talk to the Pittsburgh GM or a couple of others he has fleeced. Sabes knows what he is doing IMO.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:56 pm

      We’ll agree to disagree blade, on the trade thing. You know I think he needs to deal regardless of where they are in two weeks, looking to next season. But, I do agree w/you on other GMs. They know what’s in the Giants system. Unless they have targeted a specific guy for some reason, why should they have much interest in negotiation? Does anybody want Gary Brown when the Giants don’t even seem to want him?…

    • zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:58 pm

      Great job on the analysis, Blade. But I think a big asterik needs to be put next to Stratton, though. His career has been derailed with a head injury from a line-drive. I guess we have no way of knowing how that affects his career longterm. It was a fluke thing. Hit during batting practice I think, while he was shagging balls or something, a couple of years ago.
      Hopefully he eventually is able to be all that his firstround draft status promised.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:00 pm

        Thanks. Again, this is based upon most current results. Nothing is set in stone. This is where these guys are now (in my opinion).

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:05 pm

        Second that, blade. Good info summary on the minor leaguers.
        We get more info on this blog from Flappers than from the friggin’ beat writers. Seriously…

  27. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    A tale of two benches: the Giants could still have a lead over the Dodgers if they weren’t losing the “bench wars” so badly to the Dodgers. The Giants have nothing close to what the Dodgers have gotten from Van Slyke and Turner so far this season. The Dodgers lost Uribe for over a month, and all Turner did was step in and play great defense and hit .300. Van Slyke has 8 HRs and an OBP over .400. And these are not high-priced guys. Their expensive bench guy got part of his ear bitten off and hasn’t played much. Turner’s been out now for a while, but Uribe is back, and that’s all you would hope out of a bench guy: fill in well until the starter’s back.
    As others have mentioned, Sabean rolled the dice with a crappy bench, and it’s come back to bite the Giants. He had to scramble to get Colvin, who’s had a few good moments, although not much lately.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:02 pm

      Agree wholeheartedly. I would add that Gordon was nothing more then a reserve/utility player at the beginning of the season. He obviously surprised the Dodgers and has performed admirably, where he now starts most games.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:03 pm

      Good points, zum.
      Appropos of the bench, I’ll guess Hicks gets DFA’d if/when Scutaro comes up …

  28. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    One of the Flappers mentioned moving Pence to centerfield, and why not. Have Colvin and Morse as the corner outfielders. It loses a little defense, but it does accomplish getting Blanco out of the regular starting lineup, which would be a really great thing.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:09 pm

      I think Willie said that and I agree. Pence has the weirdest throwing motion; strangest way to catch the ball ; and most eccentric batting stance/approach I have ever seen . . . but he always gets results. No idea how he does it, but you can’t argue with success.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:09 pm

      Could it hurt? Probably not. I don’t understand anymore the concept of Blanco. Let alone as leadoff. As a supposed speed guy, what is he doing at the plate — is there ever any plan? Three years, he still rarely tries to bunt for hits. Crisp showed him how to do it last night, and CoCo has way more pop…

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:12 pm

        Blanco’s hopeless in regard to figuring out how to use his speed at the plate. Putting him back in the lead-off is just mind-numbing robotic managing by Bochy, and Bochy’s a much better manager than that. So, I don’t get it either.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:44 pm

        Totally agree.
        Oracle’s 9:53 today applies…

      • DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:07 pm

        He was kidding, snarkk…

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:17 pm

        I read it again, Loo. Eh, maybe he was. I dunno. Whatever way he meant it, I agree with the words…

  29. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    Interesting early game: Tigers/Verlander vs. Dodgers/Ryu.

  30. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Dodgers already up 2-0. No help from Verlander today, it looks like.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:21 pm

      Verlander has “Lincecum Ebola Disease,” which hopefully Timmy is recovering from, albeit, it can be fatal. :-)

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:37 pm

        At least Verlander’s got Kate Upton for consolation.
        Don’t know what Timmy’s got going these days on that front…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:40 pm

        Shit, he probably has a half dozen BBOTDs lined up after each game, going, “Pick me Timmy! Pick me!”

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:42 pm

        Well, as long as they’re at least 18, good on Timmy. He’s been smart enough to keep unmarried while those bi-weekly checks for $750K or whatever keep rolling in…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:44 pm

        Complete stupidity for anyone to get married while playing MLB, with the possible exception of Belt. lqtm.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:50 pm

        I believe he’s moved on from this one…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:08 pm

        Very, very nice.

  31. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    3-0, and Verlander is getting boos from many in the Detroit crowd. Man, how a player’s fortunes can change.

  32. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    Uribe goes Jazz Hands, 2-run HR, Dodgers up 5-0.
    Verlander: 30 pitches in the first inning.

  33. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    Appropos of not much:

    The Washington State recreational marijuana law is now operating. There are several licensed sales operations in the Seattle area already up and running, though it’s been reported the supplies may initially be limited. Timmy is not going to the AS Game, so it’s very possible he’ll head home to Seattle for the break. He’s got a lot of friends up there. Hmmm…

  34. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    File this under – Great Plays By Assholes . . . Puig just made an unbelievable assist throw on Tori Hunter’s deep fly to right center.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:59 pm

      He’s got a habit of doing S like that. Did you see the one last week in Denver, blade?
      He misplayed (took a step or two in towards the infield first) a liner to right, then ran back and caught up to it and made a diving catch headed towards the fence. Then, popped up and threw a “seed” as Kruk says to third to get the Rockies guy who was on second trying to tag and advance to third on the sac fly.
      He’s a tool with tools…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:07 pm

        Sorry, making a salad. No, I didn’t. Shit, the Tigers came back all the way (missed it all while cutting veggies up . . . LOL).

  35. Flavor said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:51 pm

    been outta town so long I didn’t realize that the last 2 games of this series are going to be played in SF. Maybe that’s always how they do the BBseries but it’s now what I recall in past series. So it looks like this will be the last game where the A’s get to “AL” us behind the woodshed.
    Problem is, when we get to SF we’re probably still fucked. But we’ll see.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 4:56 pm

      Yeah, it’s not like the Giants have been nails at ATT the last month…

  36. DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:03 pm

    The Giants have left no cock unsucked these past few weeks.

    • Flavor said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      I’m bummed I just switched out the POTD, this one was gold. maybe after this game if we go shit ourselves again.

      • DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:12 pm

        It was inspired by your occasional pole smoking references…

      • Flavor said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:14 pm

        most jokes here emanate from that deep dark place.

  37. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    It’s encouraging to know that Ryu is face planting against the Tigers. He hasn’t given up 5 runs since going against the Rockies.

  38. Flavor said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    I’m continuing to be irritated by the Giants trying to get 9 innings out of Scoots. WTF is the point of that? He’s not going to be able to do it regularly. Take advantage of the ONE thing this guy has left: elite contact rate. Put his ass on the bench and you have infinitely upgraded your RH pinch hitter

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:41 pm

      Great point. His defense was degraded last year. How good can it be now? So, put him in for 7 innings for what? So he can have less range than Panik and then aggravate his back getting creamed on a double play? Get him here for PH duties, cheerleading and showing Panik the ropes…

  39. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Tigers are busting this game open against the Bums, 8-5, bases loaded, no one out.

    • Flavor said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:13 pm

      love it. And getting Ryu on the road is unusual. But I likey

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:19 pm

        Flav, what do you think of this kid, Carlos Martinez that plays for St. Louis? I have him pitching in a daily tournament and am thinking about picking him up in FL as well.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:23 pm

        Another guy I love is JD Martinez (who used to play for Houston), Dude has made the difference in FL for me, i.e., I went from last place to 1st, largely due to him. He plays an entirely different game from when he was in Houston. Shit, dude just tripled in the Bums/Tigers game.

      • Flavor said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:37 pm

        love JD– hes figured it out. Or has gone on the right cycle, whatever.
        Martinez is not on my radar for a lot of reasons.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:50 pm

        Well, he just went off my “radar” as well – got lit up for 4 runs in 5 innings. Ha.

  40. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 6:35 pm

    Tanaka-San got lit up for 5 runs tonight.

  41. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:12 pm

    Nice of leadoff man Blanco to take 3 called strikes to open the game. Sheezus…

  42. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    Well, Gyros have three strikeouts in their first four ABs to start the game. How promising…

  43. salty said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    Christsakes. These umps work for the A’s? Seems every borderline call goes their way.

  44. Flavor said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:26 pm

    those were some high/low strikes but you have to swing the bat, too. Sonny Gray is not the guy to get deep into a count with,,,,,

  45. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:28 pm

    Verlander gave up 5 in the first inning to the Dodgers, and the Tigers said: alright, we’ll just rap out 20 hits and score 14. (grin)

  46. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    Panik didn’t see a curveball like that very often at AAA. If you can throw a curve like that, you’re probably not staying at AAA all that long.

  47. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand another wasted opportunity

  48. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    Jesus. When you get rung up the 1st time, swing. Crap, that was 6″ low.

  49. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:49 pm

    Bochy’s gonna get tossed by the 4th. There’s your Giants replay.

  50. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:50 pm

    Someone has to beat up the gatorade bucket’

  51. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    The score is tied but I feel like we’re down by 3.

  52. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:52 pm

    Posey should do what Pierzynski did – “Hey ump, can I get a ball you can see.” Pierzynski got kicked out of the game, but what a great line.

    • DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:00 pm

      According to the book “Ball Four” – Seattle Pilot manager Joe Schultz was ejected for taking off his eyeglasses and trying to hand them to the home plate umpire during a heated argument…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:13 pm

        Loo, do you remember the part in Ball Four, where Shultz said this during bunting practice, “Boys, bunting is like jacking off. Once you learn how you never forget.”

      • DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:25 pm

        Sure do, Blade. Great line…

  53. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    Fucking eh! Go into the stands Hunter and cold cock one of those bastards.

  54. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    Told my son that the bloop would lead to a run. Bingo.

  55. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:01 pm

    Yay. Ball game Good night.

  56. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:01 pm

    Shit play by Blanco there as well.

  57. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Wow. Everyone knew he was going and stilll he makes it. Fuck the Giants. If we score tonight, I guess that’s a victory,

  58. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    I hate baseball. Fuck this 2 bloops and they score 3.

  59. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    And look at that, we’re down by 3.

  60. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:06 pm

    This strike zone is massive. Sometimes

  61. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:10 pm

    Like I said. Sometimes. Right down the middle is a ball. 6″ off the dirt is a strike.

    DId everyone give up?

    Yay. We suck all time. Bummie doesn’t back up. And the beat goes on. 42-21 was fucking 10 years ago.

    Bochy has to get tossed.

    • zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:11 pm

      If Bochy gets himself tossed, that’s just quitting, too, IMO. Bochy needs to stay out there and own this.

      • unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:15 pm

        I don;t follow. He’s got to do something to get these guys motivated.

        Glaring at the ump ain;t cutting it.

  62. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    This is actually worse than the episode of “Under the Dome” last night, and that had an attack of killer caterpillars.

  63. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:14 pm

    I;m surprised Bummie didn’t get tossed walking off the field.

  64. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    Well, someone needs to get tossed. Shit, go all in and get suspended, COLD COCK A FAN I’M TELLIN’ YA!!!!!

  65. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    I nominate the drum guy, the horn guy, or the bell ringing dumbshit.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:21 pm

      You read my mind.

  66. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:18 pm

    safe, but they’ll keep the call.

  67. zumiee said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:19 pm

    LOL Randy Winn. He said: “The Giants need to stay with their game-plan.”
    Because nothing has been clearer in the last month than the fact that the Giants hitters approach each game with a highly thought-out and researched game-plan.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:22 pm

      Game plan? Is this something similar to what is written on the back of a cocktail napkin?

  68. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    Get a double and strand him.

  69. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:21 pm

    Great sign. Getting a hit every 2 innings. At least I don;t have to listen to the A’s announcers,

  70. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    It’s almost the 6th inning . . . ODB will probably stop by to entertain us.

  71. DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:32 pm

    Did Crawford hit that pitch after it bounced???

    • unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:41 pm

      No, he missed it both times. It’s fucking Bugs Bunny time.

  72. DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    Wasn’t Sonny Gray a mobster in Donnie Brasco?

  73. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:42 pm

    5 hits, 4 runs for the A’s

    5 hits, 0 runs for the Giants.

  74. wswins said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    Where’d the guys who were wearing the giants uniforms in April and May go?.

    • DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:49 pm

      Down the same drain as my NY Rangers and my hot streak at Belmont…

  75. DJLoo said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    Ruben Rivera could start on this team…

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:00 pm

      Rivera Ruben could too.

  76. ODB said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:55 pm

    That’s nice. I’m a happy little girl.

  77. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 8:57 pm

    Chico Rivera could start . . .

  78. ODB said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    What’ll this be, 6 shut-outs in 17 games or something like that. Are these the Tokyo Giants?

  79. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:05 pm

    Slip slidin’ away . . .

  80. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:09 pm

    About time. Way to go Colvin! Utility player showing the inept starters how to do it.

  81. ODB said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    I like my mommy’s hugs.

  82. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    Crawfish is absolutely lost.

    A home run?

  83. ODB said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    No Shut out!!!!! All the Giants stealing money should chip in and buy Colvin a decent hoe who won’t spill a drop.

  84. ODB said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:25 pm

    The Giants should just whip out their checkbooks and pay the A’s to service them — or I will do the servicing myself…

    • unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:30 pm

      Why don’t you go to the Dumbeat and blow your wad there?

  85. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    Or the fucking Splash? That’s a wasteland that suits you perfectly.

  86. ODB said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:32 pm

    In this modern world, life goes on..

  87. ODB said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:40 pm

    Looka at me! I’m as happy as a little girrl!!!!

  88. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    Bringing in the gas can . . .

  89. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:47 pm

    In the immortal words of Chris Cornell of Soundgarden fame.

    I can’t get any lower, but still I feel I’m sinking.

  90. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:54 pm

    Angel Hernandez has got to be one of the more clueless umps out there. Like he’s the star of the show. Hernandez is marching toward Machi to get in his face, Buster gets in his way, so Hernandez yells at Posey? What a fucking tool.

  91. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:54 pm

    I’ve been drinking white wine instead of listening to this game.
    Did the Giants score yet?…

  92. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    Pathetic.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:57 pm

      I guess that means 6-1, blade.
      They could have just mailed these losses in, and stayed in SF…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:59 pm

        Yep. By the by, another of the pitchers some advocated around here, Nolasco, went on the DL today. Pfffttt! So glad we didn’t get that guy (along with Arroyo).

  93. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    Who says it’s too early to blow this sucka up?…

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:02 pm

      I’m hoping those guys wswins was talking about earlier show up again. Whomever these “body snatchers” are, they definitely have to go.

  94. snarkk said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:03 pm

    The one run tonight means the squad is averaging something like 1.7 runs per game over the last 10. I’m guessing, but given the white wine level, it’s still pretty dang close. You’re not going to win many games with that RPG average. Did I mention the Giants suck? Onto ATT and the home field advantage? G’nite Flappers…

  95. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2014 at 10:03 pm

    G’nite all . . . Sweet nightmares!


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