A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

What if the Giants Traded for Michael Young?

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on February 8, 2011

You can pretty much pencil in 600 at bats for this guy and 22ish HR’s. Would you trade for that if you knew it was basically a lock to happen? Well, he’s 34 and still owed 46 million over the next 3 years. And, 15 of his 21 hr’s last year were hit at home. The question would be, do you give up value and have the Rangers eat most of the contract or do you give up a “Bowker Gang” member and take on that salary.

Personally, I’d do neither. If you gamble on Sandoval and win you are going to get a better line than anything Young will give you; and you give up and pay nothing. The Giants don’t have any LOCKS for third base this year. Tejada could slide over there (and probably should). DeRosa can play there and if he’s healthy you might get 15 bombs out of him. I just don’t think that paying 46 million to a 34 year old for 22 bombs at a position where that’s a rather pedestrian number is that sound of an idea.

But the Giants aren’t in the running anyway. Just jibber-jabber to kill some more time off the number to the right…….

51 Responses

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  1. Bozo said, on February 8, 2011 at 7:23 am

    No room at the inn. Even if he played OF, don’t think I’d trade Rowand for him.

    Barring a trade or injury all 25 positions seem pretty much locked up. If the Giants go with 12 position players someone has to be traded, cut or we don’t start the season with a back up Catcher.
    It looks to me like Left field will be the pivot potion with DeRosa, Pat and Rowand fighting for starts. Font and DeRosa backing up infield spots. Nate and Ishi on the bench.

    • Bozo said, on February 8, 2011 at 7:29 am

      position not potion.

      • swickman said, on February 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm

        That’s much more innocuous than if the Searchers had accidentally sung “Love Position Number 9”.

      • Bozo said, on February 8, 2011 at 12:41 pm

        LQTM on that one swick

  2. ewisco said, on February 8, 2011 at 7:45 am

    It’s interesting that we’re not hearing any rumors of a Rowand return to phillie. It seems like he could help fill the Werth void and he would probably hit a lot better there. The G’s would have to swallow some salary but it could be a win-win. The question becomes though, do you give phillie something that might help them beat you in the playoffs? I can’t see him biting them in the ass, with his inability to layoff or hit a back foot slider, but it would sure suck if he did. He’d be comfortable hitting here which may help their lineup.

    And I would think the Yankees would be sniffing around zito. They desperately need left hand pitching for Boston’s left hand lineup. They don’t care about money but they probably wouldn’t take the entire salary. It’s a classic Yankee scenario, gut their farm system for a quick fix that may not help (though usually it’s left handed “power” hitters that they’re suckers for).

    But if you t hrow out the money, Zito provides value that Rowand doesn’t. He’s a heck of a 4th or 5th starter with a one-ish whip (at least i think that’s what it was), high 3, low 4 era, 200 innings (that’s a huge deal that’s vastly underappreciated). And it’s not like they’re going to be able to use the money this year to upgrade. Still, I would trade Rowand to someone who could use them. He’s been a standup Giant and should be treated with respect.

    And who you calling Bitch?

  3. Unca Chuck said, on February 8, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Frankly, El Presidente’s continued stay is a little surprising. Of all the positions I thought they’d hit by now, back up catcher was high on the list. . . .

    Young? Naaaah. How long has he been DHing?

    We already have someone similar in Rowand . . .

    • Nipper said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:07 am

      Oh BLEEP it!

  4. Giant Head said, on February 8, 2011 at 8:26 am

    I commented at the time when the Rangers signed Beltre that we should go after Young only if we dumped Rowand on them.

    Rangers would save some significant dough in that third year, but unless we added a decent minor league arm, the Rangers were not going to give up Young’s offense for Rowand’s lack of offense without getting some more value back. Sosa is probably too good to give up. Hinshaw and someone else would be good with me.

    Having Young in our lineup and his flexibility to split time at third, short and second would make him very valuable.

    Plus having complete insurance for Franchez and

  5. Giant Head said, on February 8, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Chuck, Young has not been DH’ing….Vlad was their DH last year as Young played third.

    Young would likely hit well at ATT and would be far more offense than Rowand. Young could play left as well. Two games at third a week, Panda 4 games there and a couple at first, Young two games at short and one in left or second.

    Would get plenty of at bats. Getting rid of Rowand’s contract would be worth making the trade and having to pay Young in the out years.

    Let’s pray Zito pitches .500 ball and low 4.00 ERA. Yanks or Rangers may indeed get sucked into making a deal…

  6. delmardennis said, on February 8, 2011 at 8:49 am

    “If the Giants go with 12 position players …”

    I’ll bitch and moan up a storm just like I did last year. Carrying 13 pitchers on your squad is the most asinine roster decision in all of baseball. There is no justifying that move whatsoever. None. Zip. Nada. If it were up to me I wouldn’t even carry 12 pitchers. But that’s a whole other issue…

    • Bozo said, on February 8, 2011 at 9:31 am

      I agree Den and they can’t without making a move of some sort. But you know they will be thinking about it.

    • Nipper said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:09 am

      Go ahead “bitch and moan” a little. Grab a cold cheap one too!

  7. zumarust said, on February 8, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Come on, people, don’t harsh my mellow by talking about Rowand. No other team wants the guy. He’s going to be our expensive back-up outfielder again this season.
    Something that struck me as weird in the off-season is that Bochy or Sabean said they are going to talk to Rowand about playing right and leftfield, also, to increase his value as a back-up. The thought I had was- why didn’t ROWAND ever raise this question? Geez, if you’re Rowand and you want to PLAY more, why wouldn’t you be telling the manager, hey I can play a bunch of different positions!

    • Nipper said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:12 am

      Somehow Sabean will send Rowand packing of course with the Giants paying for the privilege.

  8. ewisco said, on February 8, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Abosulutely zumster! This insistence on playing center is not good for anyone. Put me in coach!

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on February 8, 2011 at 9:31 am

      you mean Rowand doesn’t fly first class? See what omitting the vocative comma can do?

      • ewisco said, on February 8, 2011 at 10:44 am

        Giants blabber AND English lessons! The gift of the Flap just keeps on giving!

  9. delmardennis said, on February 8, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Rowand learning to play the corner outfield positions doesn’t increase his value as a back-up. That only increases his chances of getting more playing time.

    I fail to see the increase of value in that scenario.

    • Nipper said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:15 am

      BLEEP Rowand! He’s gone one way or the other.

  10. Big Flavor said, on February 8, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Zito’s WHIP was “around 1” last year, it was 1.34. Not awful, but not great at all. Look, Zito was left completely off the playoff roster. He was left off because his last several starts were atrocious. He was AFRAID OF CONTACT. Who wants to send that out to the mound? The Yankees don’t really care about $ but they aren’t stupid. Why would they take on a pitcher who was so bad at the end of last season that he couldn’t even make the playoff roster? The playoffs are all the Yankees care about, they’re not going to trade for a guy who is afraid of contact……

    • Big Flavor said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:10 am

      that shoulda said “WASN’T around 1”

      • ewisco said, on February 8, 2011 at 12:23 pm

        I couldn’t remember it exactly but i knew it was one-ish and i think 1.34 counts as one-ish, though slightly closer to 1.5-ish. In any case, decent.

  11. ewisco said, on February 8, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Two completely different situations. Zito was left off because the Giants had 4 other better choices. The Yankees don’t have that luxury. Pure and simple. The Yankees need pitching and especially left handed pitching. I’m not saying that Zito is the answer for them, nor that they’ll pull the cord on it, but I would think that they’re at least pondering it.

  12. swickman said, on February 8, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Re: Rowand’s and Zito’s tradeability, since last year, I’ve been looking at mid season in 2011 as the inflection point for when other teams might become interested. I just don’t see either one moving before the season starts.

    If the Giants end up exploring trades, I’d rather they got rid of Rowand and received virtually nothing in return, while eating half his salary. I wouldn’t do a straight up trade for Michael Young because the Giants’ future lineup has hitters with real potential. I think when they’re looking at 2012/2013 and beyond, they need to be thinking about surrounding those stars with good support players and figuring out how to keep the starting rotation intact. Young’s more costly contract through 2013 does not help in that regard.

    The problem is that Rowand sucked so bad last year that nobody will want to pick him up right now. His big key to tradeability will be how he performs in limited starts in the first half of 2011. I’d love to see him get off to a good start.

    As far as Zito, I’ve never hated the guy just because he was overpaid. He’s clearly driven to succeed and has never mailed it in. As long as the Giants are lacking in starting pitching depth, I don’t see why they would trade him, even though his diminishing contract is starting to have some value. Sure, he costs a lot, but he’s probably the best #5 in the league and can be a big key to reaching the postseason again. Unless Wheeler, Surkamp, Bucardo or some other prospect gets major league ready in a hurry, I don’t want the Giants to let Zito go. Screw the money.

  13. 3bagger said, on February 8, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Swick has it down. Rowand sucked too much for anyone to want him without seeing some signs of life this season and who would we replace Zito with? Is Wellemeyer available?

    • swickman said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:09 am

      Totally. It’s not Suppan, either.

  14. swickman said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:06 am

    There’s a lot of chatter on the statistical blogs lately centering around Matt Cain and his seemingly unsustainable HR/FB rate and BABIP. Otis Anderson at Bay City Ball has an excellent summary of all the talk, with links to various sites that are talking about it.

    The interesting thing, to me, is that people are starting to notice that the great HR/FB rate seems to apply to a large number of Giants pitchers and they’re starting to wonder how much Dave Righetti is having an effect. Very interesting stuff…

    http://www.baycityball.com/2011/02/07/matt-cain-is-controversial-really/#more-7576

    • James said, on February 8, 2011 at 4:16 pm

      Matt Cain, lucky?!? Whatever good fortune the discrepancy between his ERA and xFIP measures is more than compensated for by his W-L record.

    • Decap said, on February 8, 2011 at 4:32 pm

      Swick…. Thanks for the link… Good reads. I especially thought the Rags/Giants tie was interesting as I hadn’t thought of that before. Wasn’t it 2009 when everyone wanted to get rid of Rags because he couldn’t “fix” Zito…. lol…

  15. TedSpe said, on February 8, 2011 at 11:21 am

    For those of you trying to keep up on this sort of thing, the World Series trophy will be in Vallejo on Feb 22nd

  16. Kevin said, on February 8, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Personally I think Sabean will never ever spend big money on a older vet, if he does mention it in a meeting I think someone at the table gives a little cough with a mention of Bonds and Zito.

  17. Billy mays said, on February 8, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    I would take young for derosa and doesn’t but we would have to eat Rosales salary

    • Billy mays said, on February 8, 2011 at 3:04 pm

      Derosa and rowand *

    • TedSpe said, on February 8, 2011 at 3:24 pm

      You’ve still got me confused. Rosales?

      • Billy mays said, on February 8, 2011 at 4:30 pm

        Lol that was probably my iPhone word check thing .

  18. Rough Trade said, on February 8, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    C’mon, brainiacs. Giants aren’t eating Rowand’s salary AND taking on Young’s.

  19. Decap said, on February 8, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    I think the only way the Phillies even start to consider Rowand is if he starts to do better in limited time/Brown Fransico platoon struggles/Phillies offense as a whole struggles….. A lot of ifs…. Meaning 95% chance he is our most expensive bench option for the next few years….

    • TedSpe said, on February 8, 2011 at 4:49 pm

      What if we throw in Gomez?

      • DJLoo said, on February 8, 2011 at 5:53 pm

        Toss in Uncle Fester and we got a deal.

  20. Flavor said, on February 8, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Having a 1.37 WHIP is no where near close to a 1.00. In fact, anything over 1.25 and you get tossed off my fantasy teams

    • ewisco said, on February 8, 2011 at 9:16 pm

      fine, throw him off your fantasy team. enjoy.

  21. Flavor said, on February 8, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Speaking of Cain and his HR %, I think his HR’s allowed per game pretty much tells the long term tale. If you look at Cain’s HR allowed X9/IP, he comes in this way:
    2006: 0.9
    2007: 0.6
    2008: 0.8
    2009: 0.9
    2010: 0.9
    The BEST pitchers will come in under 1.0 and he’s done that for 5 straight years. This is who he is……..

    • swickman said, on February 8, 2011 at 5:54 pm

      Cain’s a stud, no question. It’s interesting to see stats nerds break down the stats and say that he can’t sustain what he’s sustained for 5 straight years. He pitches very well to the park’s strengths but one of the links pointed out that the Giants’ staff actually had a better HR/FB rate on the road than they did at home last year. There are a whole bunch of current and recent Giants starters at or near the top in terms of all time HR/FB rate. Hence the thought that Righetti is playing a factor. Cool stuff.

  22. Kevin said, on February 8, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    For me from the time I first saw Cain pitch I knew he was going to be good, and then Tim came along and I thought they might trade Cain. I held my breath every year. But he always came through, and he never looks rattled on the mound

  23. Flavor said, on February 8, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    I think Raggs has taught the Giants pitchers how to pitch at ATT (I know, stating the obvious). They know how to pitch to the park. I think, as a staff, they’d be great pitching in Oakland, too. I wonder what they would do in Toronto or Colorado.
    It’s fun to watch them develop together over all these years. This literally just does not happen anymore………

  24. Dirtnrocksnreno said, on February 8, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    Nice pic of Matt “Mad Dog” Cain over on Bay City Ball. Interesting article but I can see with my own eyes that Cain is good. He gets overshadowed by Lincecum but who’s to say the competition doesn’t drive him to be that much better. Keeping those two together would be epic. Gotta dream right?

  25. xootsuit said, on February 8, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Cain’s one-hitter in May last season was probably the best pitched game of the season for the Giants. The only hit was a FB to the wall in RF that Nate could’ve caught (although not many other OFs could’ve — so a clean double, in the end). Cain’s WHIP was lowest of the starters, truly “close” to 1.000. Out iin the BP, only Romo’s WHIP was lower, and he appeared in about 60 innings, compared to Cain’s collossal 223 (more than Tim).

    I like reading about the super-recondite stats. I know they’re accurate (plus or minus this or that). But I really didn’t need super-recondite stats to convince me that Cain had a great season in 2010.

  26. zumarust said, on February 8, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    There’s a lot of cool things about Cain. One of the coolest is that, even at his relatively young age, he is the most senior member of this group of Giants.
    And the way he never complained about the lack of run support he was getting during some hard-luck seasons, endeared him to his teammates and everyone else. There’s no doubt he is hugely respected in the clubhouse, and is one of the team leaders.

  27. xootsuit said, on February 8, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    He’s the Giants’ players’ union rep. Lives in Noe Valley with his wife (not somehwere in AZ or TX, etc.). Helluva career situation for the mere HS grad from Ala damn bama.

  28. Unca Chuck said, on February 9, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Crazy thing is, he’s the longest tenured Giant on the team.

    Yeah, what I found so good about Matty was his NEVER giving in to the frustration of not getting run support. Especially as such a young guy at the time. His 7-18 record was ungodly when he had the 3rd best ERA in the majors. He could have easily done as little as state the obvious, but he never did. He could have easily SHOWN even a little frustration. It was always on him, according to him.

    The one thing he really did improve on is not losing guys that were 0-2, 1-2. A couple years ago, he had a tendency to groove FBs at times when ahead in the count.

    This should be the year he is in the Cy Young running. 21-8, baby!


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