A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Order of Our Starting Rotation

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on February 25, 2011

I hope the Giants keep to their word and the rotation goes Tim, Dirrrty, Cain, Zito, Bumgarner. The theory is that the bullpen gets some regular relief by separating the reliability of Timmy and Cain. But tactically, I think this is an outstanding approach. Timmy is a no-brainer as the 1. Dirrrrty at the 2 is intriguing. At his best, he can beat a 1 or a 2 with ease. At his worst, and it’s usually either or with him, he has trouble hanging with a 5. By putting him as a 2 he either pitches his ass off and beats his opponent or he throws a game that would probably get him a loss regardless of who he pitches against. If I had to wager, I’d say that Dirrrrty steps up this year and pitches like a #2 much more often than a #5. And Cain at the 3 vs the other team’s 3? Say hello to 20 wins for Matt Cain in 2011. Zito at the 4 is simply a way to protect the inning total of Bumgarner. Theoretically,  pitching as the 5 and getting his start skipped now and again, Bum might come in around  200 innings this year, which would be good for his arm. I say *theoretically* because I have less confidence in Barry Zito than I’ve ever had at any point in his career here in SF. And that is an astounding lack of confidence considering the last 4 years. Bum will bump to the 4 probably by mid-May when Zito comes down with some phantom injury. At this point they will shuttle Suppan or Mr Somebody into the #5 and just hope for the best……..

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  1. eddacker415 said, on February 25, 2011 at 7:06 am

    good analysis Flav, I could see all five of those turning out correct.
    Theoretically the Giants could go into an early season 3 game series with Zito-Bum-Timmy followed by Dirty-Cain-Zito leaving at least half the games a question mark. But I am sure some giant research guy has scanned this already. Amazing how much stats and research has increased its place in the game.

  2. Giant Head said, on February 25, 2011 at 7:57 am

    If Dirty wantrs to make the big dollars, he is going to have to prove himself this year.

    With big bucks heading to Timmy and Cain the next two years and Zito dragging down payroll for another three years, if Sanchez wants to get into bigger dollar territory, he better show it this year. I think if he does not step up this year, the Giants will start looking to move him. The Bum may be perfectly capable being the #2 next year.

    By 2013, the Giants are not going to be paying 3 starters (Zito, Timmy and Matt) $16 plus million and then another $10 mill to Sanchez and BWilson will be in the plus $10 mill range…so let’s see it this year. Are you the head case of the playoffs or a guy ready to win 20?

  3. twinfan said, on February 25, 2011 at 8:00 am

    As I posted last night,I’m sorry to say that I have to cancel the contest. It’s just too hard for me to build right now. I hope you’ve all enjoyed them. When I get my right hand back, maybe I’ll start them back up…
    As to the rotation, I like it-especially Dirty in the two. As Flavor notes, he can beat any 1 or 2. His demeanor in the Philly game concerns me, though. He seemed pretty happy to be out of there. So I see this as a challenge to his heart, his reaction has been encouraging..

  4. Kevin said, on February 25, 2011 at 8:37 am

    I think putting Dirty in the 2 spot could give him confidence for the next time he is in the playoffs. I don’t think Dirty handles pressure very well, if at all. I think after he pitched his no hitter in SD, he felt he should do that all the time. and when he couldn’t replicate it he just dropped out of sight. 2010 he show improvements. So this year giving him the #2 spot should do wonders for his confidense.

  5. twinfan said, on February 25, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Signs of Spring: the quince and daffodils in bloom, the first day of line up bashing…
    Gs line up vs. AZ: Torres, DeRosa, Tejada, Posey, Ross, Burrell, Sandoval, Rowand (DH), Ishi ..

  6. zumarust said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:16 am

    BF, you keep promising us that Zito will develop that phantom injury, but he never does. Oh well….
    I’m ready for a gameday, today!

  7. zumarust said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:19 am

    The producers of “Two and a Half Men” have pulled the plug on the show for this season, ceasing production of new episodes for a while. They’ve had it with Sheen’s remorseless, belligerent behavior.
    The TV show is Sheen’s big enabler. His money supply. If the affiliates ever decide to drop the show from syndication, that will be a big crimp in Charlie’s lifestyle.

    • Unca Chuck said, on February 25, 2011 at 10:04 am

      Problem is, the show is funny as hell . . .

    • TedSpe said, on February 25, 2011 at 10:24 am

      And a huge cash cow for the network. Sheen’s extracurricular activities haven’t hurt the ratings up to this point

  8. Bozo said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:20 am

    I have no problems with this rotation. If someone/something doesn’t work, Bochy will just tweak it.

    So did you guys see this job for MLB?


    Basically, all you have to do is give up a year of your life, live in a MLB selected place in NY and watch every baseball game for the whole year while blogging about it. Didn’t mention salary.

    • eddacker415 said, on February 25, 2011 at 6:17 pm

      I saw my dream job advertised yesterday:

      travel to 20 exotic locations from March through November and use a computer to monitor your car (McLaren)
      About $70K/yr + free hotels + BB

      A world renowned manufacturer of electronic control systems for motorsport are currently looking for a F1 Track Support Engineer to join their team in Surrey.

  9. delmardennis said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Rowand’s in the starting lineup? After all that praise I heaped upon Bochy during the postseason, he “reverts to form.” What makes it even worse is that I think Aaron’s in CF and Torres is the DH. Double whammy.

    First pitch on KNBR at 12:05. First comment from yours truly to declare the season over est. at 12:07.

    • zumarust said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:26 am

      You ARE aware there’s no DH in the National League? (grin)
      Let Rowand have his fun today.

      • snarkk said, on February 25, 2011 at 11:00 am

        I heard on KNBR the same thing from Torres himself. He’s DHing today, Rohand in CF. The usual bromide amount “showcasing” for a trade can be hauled out of mothballs now…

  10. xootsuit said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Last season Lincecum faced Oswalt in the Houston opener. His next three starts he faced Kawakami (Atl), Haeger (LA) and Jaime Garcia (StL).

    1 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2 doesn’t play out. It’ll be shot to shit early this year. Take a look at the April schedule. 5 off days. By comparison, the Cardinals have 2 in April; the Dodgers, 3.

    Still, I like the idea of putting Jonathan Sanchez second in the rotation. Time for him to step up. Based on the PS last year, however, I expect to be more concerned with his IP total in September than with Bumgarner’s.

  11. Big Flavor said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Zumie— the phantom injury would have come last season, if not for the end of the regular season. It was easy enough to just leave him off the PS roster. But if he stumbles and bumbles through April the way he ended last season, I bet we see him hit the DL by middle of May….

  12. TedSpe said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:39 am


  13. TedSpe said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:50 am

    What I’ve never understood, and I do it myself as well, is how we all talk like starting pitchers are dueling their opponents’ pitchers. To quote Flav “he can beat a 1 or a 2 with ease. At his worst, and it’s usually either or with him, he has trouble hanging with a 5”.
    I mean, I understand the meaning but…isn’t it the batters who beat the pitchers?
    Out duel? Okay. That’s a better term. But if Sanchez shuts down a team or gets raked, the opposing pitcher had very little to do with it. Except maybe psychologically.
    Okay, I’m through. Back to our regularly scheduled programming
    (this has been a solicitated rant and in no way reflects or infers the opinions of this Flavor Nation)

  14. Rough Trade said, on February 25, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Zito Rowand bashing in full swing…pace yourselves guys.

  15. Nipper said, on February 25, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Right now Rowand should be playing, when the games don’t count. Perhaps some other team may find him appealing even if his salary is a turn-off. Giants end up paying his freight to disappear.

  16. delmardennis said, on February 25, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Play ball!

    I’ll take Pablo for the first ST homer. And I’ll take Rowand for the first ST DP.

  17. ferrethead said, on February 25, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    It’s Spring!!!!!! Baseball is being played again – all is right with the world!

    Twinnie, sorry to hear you’re not feeling well…

  18. delmardennis said, on February 25, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Timmy’s getting shelled: season over. 🙂

    • Kevin said, on February 25, 2011 at 12:19 pm

      Yeah, he is pitching like he did in August last year, going to lose 5 straight spring training games. oh my!! The world is coming to an end as we know it.

    • Bozo said, on February 25, 2011 at 12:20 pm

      Get Bum up

      • Kevin said, on February 25, 2011 at 12:21 pm

        6 straight strikes

  19. snarkk said, on February 25, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Timmeh needs to cut that friggin hair, and get rid of the roach clip. And more long toss, dammit. That’s the ticket. Otherwise, we’re screwed, and Dbacks look to take the West…

  20. Kevin said, on February 25, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Bum is pitching now

  21. Bozo said, on February 25, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    With all this great hitting, if we just had some good pitching we’d be good to go.

    -Just kidding kevin-

  22. snarkk said, on February 25, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Ratto is an ignoramus. Why he gets run on TV and radio is beyond me. He said the other day from what he had seen Belt was no great shakes in the field at 1B. Everything I’ve read and heard, including just now via Milller, is that Belt is already very accomplished and smooth around the 1b bag…

    • delmardennis said, on February 25, 2011 at 2:42 pm

      Sounds like Belt just made a spectacular 3-6 DP on a high chop that he leaped for, found the bag then made an effortless turn to gun down the runner going from first to second. Jon Miller was quite impressed. I think he’ll do just fine at first base.

  23. Kevin said, on February 25, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Snarkk, Ratto = Troll, he says those things to get you to comment on them!

    • snarkk said, on February 25, 2011 at 2:23 pm

      To a point, agreed. Put Ratto and Skip Bayless in one TV studio and a black hole will start to develop…

  24. snarkk said, on February 25, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Here’s 2010 data on runs, runs against, and run differential for the usual suspects for 2011. I don’t see why this year the Giants couldn’t, at least, uptick 5% in runs scored to around 4.50/game. A full year of Posey, Burrell, Franchez, DeRosa, a hopefully rejuvenated Panda, and maybe Belt at some point, should be able to do that, even with the loss of Uribe. To me, that would spell a 95-98 Ws season, if pitching is even close to 2010’s RA metric…

  25. snarkk said, on February 25, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Runs RA R – RA
    Phl 772 4.77 640 3.95 0.81
    SF 697 4.30 583 3.60 0.70
    Atl 738 4.56 629 3.88 0.67
    SD 665 4.10 581 3.59 0.52
    Col 770 4.75 717 4.43 0.33
    LA 667 4.12 692 4.27 -0.15

  26. Nipper said, on February 25, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Ratto is a big sourpuss and he loves it that way. He’s not a rah-rah type for the home team.

  27. eddacker415 said, on February 25, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    I checked all the way through middle of march and no SFGs ST games scheduled for espn.
    Why doesn’t comcast stream to other countries?

  28. Flavor said, on February 25, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    I’m not interested in reading *rah rah* guys. I just want someone who is informed and writes interesting shit. Having a sense of humor is also a plus. Of all the Chron writers (who do baseball) the only guy who gives me this most of the time is Bruce Jenkins. At the Merc, it’s Kawakami (who I can’t stand but who can write an interesting column when he’s not writing it just to be noticed) and Baggerley. Of the old Chron guys, Tim Keown was one of the best the Chron has ever seen. Ratto was one of the worst……..

    • xootsuit said, on February 25, 2011 at 8:08 pm

      Jenkins invented the the “Three Dot Lounge” title for his column in honor of H. Caen, who could weave together three or more themes while he sped through item after apparently unrelated item. As others have noted, Caen was like a drummer using both hands and a foot on the bass to embelllish a perfect beat. (Bozo, feel free to correct me here.) Anyway, Jenkins’ point is that he knows what a great columnist is — Caen’s an excellent standard. And he knows you don’t get there by straining or by pretending to be sharp. So he does what he does best — he states the facts, analyzes the facts and then opines however the fuck he wants to opine. He makes it interesting because he always starts with something he knows and usually ends with something that’ll piss some people off. He also loves some of the sports he covers– baseball, basketball, tennis and surfing.

      Ratto doesn’t seem to love anything but his own weak voice. He’s worthless.

  29. twinfan said, on February 25, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    While we all would like those much discussed ” big bats”, it might be instructive to know that, with this pitching staff, you are really asking for the 1927 Yankees.As it is, with Posey,Torres, Burrell, and Ross replacing the 2010 starters, this looks to be a 100 win team, IMO…

  30. Sportdude said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Our 5th starter pitched 200 innings. Era 4.1 whip 1.34

    How many teams in the majors in the last 20 years can say that?

  31. Sportdude said, on February 25, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    PS I always liked Glenn Dickey

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