A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Dodgers Tangled Financial Web of Lies

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 28, 2011

Sierrra Nevada’s post at the end of the last thread was too good to let die there and I am interested in all your thoughts about the way McCourt was running the team. I honestly didn’t understand everything he was doing but the basic gist of it was that money that was supposed to be shared with other owners was getting diverted back to McCourt. Here’s the link to the rather complicated flow chart: http://www.dodgerdivorce.com/2011/06/mechanics.html

And here is SN’s post. Thanks for doing my work for me today, dude. I could have discussed the irony of Zito and Voggy pitching today’s double header but most of it would have just been obvious observations:

Sierra Nevada said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:17 am (Edit)

Getting back to the question Flavor asked of “are other owners getting away with the same kind of arrangements?”, I would bet that the answer is yes and no.

Yes, in the sense that the league expects a team with attendance and revenue issues to do whatever it takes to stay afloat, and is happy to dole out revenue sharing to such teams as a way of keeping team values up and always on the rise.

But teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are expected to make money and be feeders of the revenue sharing system. So for them, the answer is No. The sin that McCourt has committed is he took a team that owned its own stadium and could be reasonably expected to be a profit center for the league in perpetuity, and turned it into a revenue sink. What McCourt has done has basically fucked the league’s basic economic model. You can bet that the other owners, particularly the ones that count on revenue sharing to fund their “lifestyle” are not going to be too keen on seeing that happen. Not to mention the players association – if the other cash cows of the league get hollowed out like the Dodgers have, the free agent market collapses, because there will be no “profitable teams” to spend lavishly on FA’s and the small market teams will have to live within their means, which means no big free agents for them at all.

The only question is, can McCourt take the league down with him? When betting on legal outcomes, the rule is “bet on the side that has the richest guys”. Normally that means that the rich guys who own the rest of the teams in MLB win the day. But McCourt has borrowed a lot of money from a lot of rich guys to fund his scheme, and they will be on his side if a league victory means they don’t get paid. If McCourts debt has reached “too big to fail” territory, the league is fucked.

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And here’s a poll that is trickier than it looks….

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  1. stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Hope they saved some fireworks for game two. Eighteen hit attack for the road-warriors. Thirteen runs places them one ahead of the Pads for 15th in the league. Of course if they played in the NL Central their hitting would be in the middle of the pack and ERA maybe fifth in the league. 45-34 places them just behind Boston and Closing on Yanks and Phils with their 4th best record in MLB. Doing a tad better than this time last year.

    Betcha Vogelsong would not like to be starting half his games in front of the ivy. His escape act in the bottom of the 3rd with two on, one out and the meat of the order facing him was a class act as he struck out both his next batters. Cubbies actually scored a run against the Giants relievers. That should awaken the doomers.

  2. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    Ed, before today Huff was batting .300 for the month 4 HR 16 RBI .830 ops

  3. Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    Now for the next game can the Giants offense keep up with Zito’s offense

  4. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    LU is ready, DD

  5. TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Dennis is slacking.
    Good game. Too bad Vogelsong didn’t get in enough innings to be a league leader but a win’s a win

  6. unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    CF Torres
    2B Burriss
    3B Sandoval
    1B Huff
    LF Ross
    RF Nate
    SS Crawford
    C Whiteside
    P Zito

    Flav will ba happy to know that Bruce Bochy named Mike Quade to his coaching staff to replace the retired Jim Riggleman . . .

    • Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm

      That’s fucking awesome and a great way to acknowledge his role in us getting to the playoffs last year……

  7. Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    I was busy checking out Kate Middleton’s dress that she wore at Wimbledon. Simply smashing.

  8. Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    I would say the challenge is on to see which LU can produce the most runs!!

  9. Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    I like Zito about as much as Dennis likes A. Smith. Who is a better thrower Dennis???

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 4:39 pm

      It’s not even close. Zito won a Cy Young Award. At least he’s a has-been. The other is a never-was.

      • Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 4:48 pm

        ah you got me there Dennis! damn!

      • unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm

        As Zumie would say, it’s better to burn out than to fade away . . .

  10. Rough Trade said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Well, I’m psyched to see a little houdini.

  11. stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Giants fairly quiet against Lopez in the first. He wasn’t such great shakes with the Snakes last season. He is known to carry a gascan to hitter friendly venues. Matchup tonight may both be thankful those two squads may be running on batteries a bit in the nightcap. Even for those two it will be hard to top 20 runs scored.

  12. unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Nice play there by Lopez . . .

  13. unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Burriss going for Waveland Ave . . . . . .

  14. Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Just Barry being Barry…

    • Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 5:57 pm

      That’s the Barry we all know and hate

  15. Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Tejada ain’t making that play!

  16. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Totally moronic AB from Whitey- he had three pitches to swing at. Two out, you aren’t there to leave it to pitcher..

    • Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 6:18 pm

      Agree.

    • Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 6:27 pm

      I could not agree more. What the fuck was he doing up there?

  17. Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Vern and Vera are very proud

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 6:50 pm

      And puzzled as to why Quade elected to pitch to him w/ Zito on deck. Well, he wasn’t literally on deck, but he was gonna be up next.

  18. Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    I have only seen some of this game but the Zito line is better than anything Dirrrrty has thrown up there recently. He’s been lucky, too. But he’s only at 85 pitches through 5. MInus the K’s, this is a better start than we would have likely gotten out of Sanchez. Of course, this all could have gone horribly wrong with a few breaks that didn’t go Zito’s way…..

  19. stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Yeah, we have to say that Zito did ok for those first five innings. One more with no more than one extra run and technically its a quality start. Really like that four-run, two out rally begun by Huff with a seemingly harmless one-out single. Hitting at home or on the road is like night and day. Of course it helps that they are playing at Wrigley and against the Cubbies collexion of hurlers.

  20. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    I don’t know whether it would be good or bad if he took Dirty’s spot.Only thing that’s certain is that Zits will eventually fuck them.

    • TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:32 pm

      Agreed. Nothing scientific right now to back this up but I was certain he’d have a good outing today. I predicted a win for Zito here yesterday. And then I predicted the usual tank job. One of his best outings tonight *ever* as a Giant. But, I repeat. It’s just a gut feeling.
      Remember…I’m also the guy that thought these were home games

  21. stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Damn straight that’s a quality start, particularly that it was at a place like Wrigley. Needles to say, the jury will remain out on Zito for some time to come ~ not all the members, as some have already made their decision. At close to 100 pitches and just having cruised through the heart of the Chicago L.U., Barry is probably done for the evening~ at least if i were Bochy. It’s not over till its over, but SF is positioned well to sweep the twin-bill. Nice to see some solid stick-work to give Zito a fighting chance.

  22. TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    And as usual for a Zito start…what inning is it? And what time is it?

  23. stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Big Brain Bruce had more confidence in Zito being able to go past 100 pitches and it worked out just fine ~this time. Best part about it is that it saves on the pen.

  24. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    If they win it’s good. But a good outing from Zito means absolutely nothing in the long term. He’s not “back”, he’s not “fixed”, he’s still the fuck who will break your heart.The absolute best scenario is he wins tonight and says fuck everyody and retires to Shanrgi-La..

    • TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm

      Or as Don Rickles once said:
      “Why don’t you buy a horse, ride up to the moutains and leave everyone alone!”

    • Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:55 pm

      He is still that guy you hated playing behind. You get three runs and he promptly comes back and gives up four. A heartbreaker, for sure.

  25. TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    Are they prnouncinf Fukudome properly?

    • TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:45 pm

      Am I splleing pronounigs properly?

  26. TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Love Mota

  27. stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Mota puts the Cubbies down like so many whipped puppies. Seems they are convinced they are gonna lose and are now just going through the motions. Oh well, many of those Chi-boys are plenty well paid for doing that.

  28. TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    PABLO!

  29. That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    19 runs on 30 hits, eh? We just flew into Chicago — boy are our bats tired!

  30. willieD said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    OK…cubs are supposed to be in dumping mode for vet players, including a couple of those as proposed in trades by our resident GM from brooklyn. See anything you like?

  31. xootsuit said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Zito’s line tonight was pretty fucking good. How often will that happen?

    • Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:14 pm

      well, he notched win #2 since last July 16th. Regardless of what COULD have happened tonight, he came through adequately. Certainly better than Sanchez is rolling these days. But to count on this for anything in the future is foolish. Take a decent-luck filled game from him and expect nothing more……….

    • xootsuit said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:47 pm

      That’s the easy answer.

      • Big flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:10 pm

        What’s the hard answer?

  32. Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    This makes me very happy and now I can go to bed.
    Cheers all.

  33. Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    no. The Cubs suck. Their payroll list is a fucking script for a new comic at Rooster T Feathers…….

  34. TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    7 game winning streak. Longest of the year.
    Zito won.
    Enjoy it Flappers. Cuz….

  35. Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    The Flappers called the poll cold……..

  36. stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    80 games in the books. Giants on pace to go 93-69, good enough to win the Division. Nice to see Nate contributing the way he did tonight. Somehow, this season, there is something about Phonebill park which puts a huge damper on hitting. Soon as the Giants leave town and face some so-so hurlers, the bats come outta the freezer.

    Timmy and Cain for the next two in Chi-town. I really like our chances for taking three of four. Dumpster beat SF earlier this season, but has been seesaw this year. Zambrano has owned the Gigantes over the years, but is having a somewhat down season.

  37. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Funny, the results that got Sanchez out of the rotation would be considered good results for the Zitman

    • TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:30 pm

      They’re held to different standards, I guess.
      No one expects *ANYTHING* from Zito

  38. ewisco said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    For all “the giants hit better on the road” i think it’s important to remember that, while they don’t hit great at home, it’s home. They’ve learned to deal with it as opposed to a road team that’s enjoying the fruits for one of the rare times that they’re there.

    Glad to see Zito go 7. if nothing else, maybe it enhances the trade bait. But the gamer had a couple of big hits and a very nice slide and i’m starting to think that they’ll be here forever.

    definition of torture?

  39. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    “But the gamer had a couple of big hits and a very nice slide and i’m starting to think that they’ll be here forever.”
    You’ll know you’re in Hell.

  40. ewisco said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    it could be worse. it could be raining. oh, wait.

  41. Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Rowand is hitting lefties well this year, it’s been the correct move to let him play against them. Go back and look at other players year stats—hitting lefties is weird shit—some years you ruin them, some years they ruin you. I’m totally fine if Rowand is in a “Ruin them” year……..

  42. twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    Absolutely, it can’t be argued otherwise. Can’t imagine who would.

  43. xootsuit said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Zito has pitched well as a Giant for long stretches of his seasons, usually when the pressure wasn’t on. 1/3 of the season? He came through. So he could put some games together now — for a while — just when the Giants need that sort of starting effort. I’m not predicting, just hypothesizing. It’s not impossible. So hold off on trashing Zito until he fucks up. And get ready for fuck up Lincecum tomorrow.

    • TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:10 pm

      After a 7 game winning streak, an 8 is rough. So bad form, my friend, in putting Lincecum on the spot. The law of averages already puts Lincecum in the doghouse. So frankly that’s an easy thought.
      I will trash Zito even after tonight’s game because frankly…he sucks. In his entire MLB career he’s had 2 good years. And the Cy Young year is filled with steroid rumors and just pure luck.
      No, tonight was great but it wasn’t a taste of what’s to come.
      He will fail.
      He became a multi-millionaire and a respected pitcher on some anomoly that happened about a decade ago.
      I’d take Drrrty any day over Zito, despite his obvious flaws

    • xootsuit said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:18 pm

      Trash anyone you want to, my friend. I don’t know why you would, but who gives a fuck.

      And if you think I think LIncecum will fuck up tomorrow then I guess I’ll have to start using the sarcasm font more frequently.

    • TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:26 pm

      Okay. Maybe I *do* need the sarcasm font. I apologize if I missed it. But I will continue to “trash” Zito.
      He reminds me of Ronald Reagan’s acting career. A couple okay performances that lead to a highly paid plethora of shitty acting jobs, with an occasional semi-good gem thrown in, for the rest of his career.
      First career.

  44. That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    “After a 7 game winning streak, an 8 is rough.” Yes — but this Cubs team looks bad enough for a 4-sweep. As I mentioned to Loo last night, this wasn’t much different than one of Zito’s AAA rehab starts. 😀

    • TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:35 pm

      You’re right about the sweep. It’s just I’m caught up in the law of averages on an 8 game streak. But it could happen. If Lincecum’s on, it could happen

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:41 pm

        If you flip a coin and it comes up “heads” 7 consecutive times. There’s still a 50/50 chance it’ll come up “heads” again on the 8th try.

      • That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:14 pm

        uh… Den. You’re allegedly a horses guy. How’d you miss a Stats 101 problem so … convincingly. .5 ^ n

  45. TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Trash anyone you want to, my friend. I don’t know why you would, but who gives a fuck.
    ——————————————————————-
    Funny. Who indeed?
    Goodnight, gentlemen (?)

  46. freshtodef80 said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    Like Alex Smith’s 7th year as QB.;)

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