A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Sabean Answers Some Questions But I Answer a Big One for Him

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 22, 2011

I had great interest in reading Baggs’ quick interview with Sabean published in the Merc this morning—greater interest than I’ve had in the playoffs up to this point. I was going to take a shot at watching an entire actual game today but Game 3 is starting at the same time the Cardinal game starts so that isn’t happening…..

Anyway, pretty typical comments from Sabean but this line from Baggs disturbed me a little: “Sabean said he probably cannot acquire another full time catcher as insurance because resources will be needed elsewhere.” I get it that we will be dumping a lot of money into the pitching staff, and I’m fine with that. But this admission suggests that the brass didn’t quite get how devastating the Stew-Whitey tandem was to the line up last year. With Crawford hitting in front of the catching position we were basically giving away a third of our outs each time through the order. That isn’t going to ever work or be ok. If Sabean thinks we can go into a season with one of those 2 catchers as our back up to Posey he just isn’t understanding how bad they were last year.

I would sign a legit back up major league catcher who wouldn’t just back up Posey—Let him play a couple of days a week vs lefty pitching and slide Buster over to first base. We have precious little right handed power hitters and if the choice is Pill or Posey at first during those games I go with Buster all day long— it would also give his body a break and if the unthinkable happens again, and he either can’t recover from the ankle injury or he gets badly hurt again, then we have a legitimate player to put behind the dish for the rest of the season…..

To not take this approach is short sighted, risky and borderline ignorant. I hope the brass does the right thing here……….

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  1. blade3colorado said, on October 22, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Actually, I am heartened by Sabean’s comment regarding the catcher position. Why? Simply because there are very few good catchers playing 1st string available in MLB. Backup catcher? LOL . . . Umm, where are those guys? Sabean is being realistic. For example, Colorado again is tabbing Ianetta as their 1st string catcher because they have no one else in-house and good luck trying to find a replacement via trade or FA. Ianetta is a complete failure insofar as what was expected of him when he initially came up a few years ago. However, the Rockies have no one else. We’re lucky to have a great one in Posey and he is a young stud . . . Despite his severe injury last year, we’ll just have to hope he stays healthy next year.

    The limited FA money Sabean has is better spent on a solid outfielder that can hit and/or a SS/infielder (again, another position where they don’t grow on trees). Anywho, that’s my take on priorities for the team. I have total faith in Sabes making the right decisions this off-season.

  2. Flavor said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Iannetta has under-performed for sure. But I would take a guy like that in a nano-second to back up Posey instead of the ridiculous 2 headed Stew-Whitey monster. He’s at least got power and can run into one now and again. What I am tired of, and what Sabean should be tired of, is the auto-fucking-matic out that the C position was every time up to bat last year (after Posey went down)……..

    • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:14 am

      Stomp your feet BF!

  3. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:22 am

    I don’t see that as meaning that they won’t upgrade the position, we’ll see. BTW, Crawford is still hitting ( .345 in 29 AB) in the AFL, which could be good news or bad. I definitely had the impression that a determination on getting a FA or trade for SS would hinge on his performance. I’m OK with that as long as they realize it also means they need a BIG TIME OF bat.I’d be fine with Beltran if they could get him for big bucks but just 2 years.
    So that gives us:
    Ross/Torres CF
    Fruckie 2B
    Beltran RF
    Sandoval 3B
    Posey C
    Huff LF
    Belt 1B
    Crawford SS
    Reserves: Torres/Ross, Schierholtz, Rod Barajas, Fontenot, Keppinger ( I know he said he’s a luxury, but that’s good back up if Crawdaddy sinks) . I’d be OK with Crisp if it was one year)

    • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:09 am

      I wouldn’t count on Beltran showing up. Of course Sabean may cave to Scott Boras again. Ouch!

  4. Macdog said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Agree completely, Flav. Torrealba, who I would consider to be a competent backup, signed 2 years-$6.25M with Texas. That’s $3M and change per year, and the Giants are saying they don’t have the money to get someone of similar value? I know they’re not raking in the postseason dough like they did last year, but c’mon.

    I also was a little surprised that Sabean said, “I don’t think I’ve watched three innings in a row” since the playoffs started. Seems to me the GM of a team that didn’t make the playoffs should be watching as much of the playoffs, especially the World Series, as possible. Why? I’d want to see which players can best handle the intense pressure that is playoff baseball, and which players can’t. Who knows, some of these players might be available someday, especially the relievers, who change teams as often as they change their socks.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:29 am

      He has plenty of people watching, don’t worry about it…they probably have like 50 men assigned to stuff like that.
      And if Craig’s report is correct, Sabean didn’t say shit that ruled out a guy like Barajas, Snyder, Hernandez….

      • twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:34 am

        None of those guys are “full time catchers” anymore.

    • Flavor said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:30 am

      Excellent 2nd paragraph. The first one was nails too……..

  5. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:04 am

    I just read the story, as Craig said, Sabean ruled out “another full-time catcher”, that is just not the same thing as saying they wouldn’t upgrade their BACK-UP catcher position. There are plenty of available free agents who fit the bill. He’s undoubtedly responding to people who think they should have had Johnny Bench, Jr. at the ready when Buster went down. Trust me, he knows the need for an upgrade on Whitey or Stewart..they’ll get somebody.

    • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:12 am

      We trust you Twin!

    • Big flavor said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:26 am

      Well we will see. I could totally see them going Whitey again. And I think it’s a great idea to play him at 1b against lefties.

    • Macdog said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:27 am

      It does indeed say “full-time catcher.” Jeez, how’d I misread that? So there is hope after all.

  6. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:30 am

    You can’t have a “full time” player as a back up for every position. That’s the kind of stuff that led someone here to post that they should have traded for Brignac ( he was once the flavor de jour) just in case Renteria and Uribe got hurt. .. Craig, I’ve proposed wagers before, no one goes for them. You name the bet- I say that Whitey and/or Stew will not be on the 25-man roster that breaks camp- that they will acquire a back up.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:50 am

      Maybe I put that wrong- NEITHER will be here.

    • Big flavor said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:59 am

      Brignac? That wasn’t me, that was GH and maybe Loo. I’m not betting on that. I don’t think either will be here in 2012, just that I could see it happening.

  7. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Considering his versatility and that he shouldn’t cost too much, I still think Detroit middle infielder Santiago would be a good pick up if they don’t retain Kepp. Besides the catcher position, SS will be the other spot where an adequate reserve is a must presuming they did go with Mudbug. I also forgot Gillaspie, they seem sold on him. So it’s Font and Gillaspie or Gillaspie and maybe Santiago as infield reseves.

  8. Big flavor said, on October 22, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Santiago? He’s got mo power or speed and I think his ops is in the low 600’s. Not on my team, thank you very much. I’ll take Crawford and his d.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 11:39 am

      Santiago’s OPS was .695 this year, about what Crawford put up in AA… but I was thinking about what you said with Whitey at 1B. I really think they’ll want to make sure they get Whitey, Stew, and Buster in together as much as possible. So they’ll catch Stew, Buster at first, and since Pablo still has trouble RHed, Whitey plays third against LHers. That will complement Crawdaddy quite well, don’t you think?
      Really- Crawfod is hardly Ozzie, ferchrissakes, he’s a good fielding SS, not great. He hits or he’s gone…

  9. zumie said, on October 22, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Dave Fleming last night on KNBR seems to think that the Giants will make a strong play for Beltran. That would be OK. A full season with Beltran and Posey, and some kind of reasonable production from everyone else, should be enough to win the division, I would think, if the pitching staff stays healthy.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 11:58 am

      Why do you always post as if our best hitter didn’t exist?

  10. zumie said, on October 22, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Regarding the catching position, a lot of us got nervous when Bochy said, at the beginning of last season, that Whitey would be catching about 25 games. Even 25 games seemed like an eternity of games for Whitey to be catching. And obviously, the scenario ended up being far worse than that.
    The Giants are in the same boat as the Braves- when your best all-around hitter is your catcher, you absolutely have to have a decent back-up catcher, or the lineup takes too big a hit when they have to rest. The Braves have a solid back-up, and the Giants don’t, at the moment.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 11:50 am

      Our best all around hitter is Sandoval. You even forgot his 2009 season before. Even with his terrible 2010, his numbers are better. Buster is fairly close.
      Posey .294 .353 .815
      Pablo .307 .356 .857

      That’s BA, OBP, OPS
      Beltran .283 .361 .857

      • twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 12:14 pm

        OPS+ takes into account the ballparks played in. Fairly close between the three. Clearly this would be a dymamic 3-4-5 ( Carlos, Panda, Posey)
        Beltran 121
        Posey 123
        Sandoval 129

  11. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Nap Time!
    Question: how do you think Harbaugh and Dabo Swinney would get along? I’d say we’d be talking about the postgame autopsy for one of them…

  12. TedSpe said, on October 22, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Pablo Sandoval. Do some of us take him for granted?

  13. Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Get some Panda hats!

  14. Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    I missed most of September with a crazy work and family schedule, and only occasionally was able to listen to a portion of a game here and there on the radio. So I have a question: based on the tiny September sample, how far would you say Hector Sanchez is from being able to fill the back up catcher job?

  15. Big flavor said, on October 22, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    He got zero chance. Nobody knows. Bochy said he’s not ready, I’m assuming he came to that off watching him practice and warm up.

    • Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:10 pm

      Looking at Hector’s September stats (I shoulda checked them before I posted):

      Looks like he didn’t do much. Not enough plate experiences to give him any credit for his hitting: .258 .324. 323. He got a hit in each of his last six games. On the minus side, since a catcher is involved in every pitch, the sample size is big enough to look at his work there: he was involved in some pretty bad losses (Giants gave up an average of 5.8 runs in games in which he appeared). Looks like he did not bring out the best in the pitching staff.

      He didn’t go to Arizona with Crawford, so I guess that says something about whether the Giants think he can be ready to back up the Catcher spot by the Spring.

  16. willieD said, on October 22, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    might sound heretical, but I’m not into Posey at 1b much. As JT said, it’s not a rest over there, and a fuck up like the one Pujols made can cost you a game. There are going to be days he needs to sit and not play. In order to play the back up C with posey at 1b, then either your reg guy there or an OF would need to sit, so I don’t see what you gain (unless either/both these guys suck, a whole nother issue).
    As a C he is great plus to the defense and PS is comfortable with him. Leave him alone and let him catch.

  17. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Buster is a catcher. That’s his best position defensively, and more importantly, that’s where he wants to play.
    Leave him alone.

    • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:00 pm

      I’ll drink to that!

  18. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    The Cardinal tackling has been atrocious thus far. I haven’t seen missed contact like that since the Stewart and NO Whitey were up to bat.

  19. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Buster is an All-Star as a catcher, he’s just another guy at first base. NL average production for the first base in 2011 was .270 BA 24 HR 92 RBI .801 OPS. For a catcher it was .250 16 HR 68 RBI .707 OPS. Belt working out or Huff having a bounce back year is by far the better option to moving Buster…as to Hector, he did have trouble defensively but he swung the bat real well from the left side ( 7 for 20 ). He definitely has a clue at the plate. But he has only 40 some games at AAA and didn’t tear the cover off the ball there. I think they’ll get a guy like Barajas in the off season for now…

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:03 pm

      If Stewart or NO Whitey make the Opening Day roster, you have to go buy a Tony Romo jersey.

    • Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:16 pm

      Yeah, it looks like Hector is not on the radar. I was checking Hector’s stats and replying to flavor above and missed your post twin.

      The Giants giving up 5.8 runs per game in Hector’s appearances is not promising. He would have to hit like hell to make up a steep defensive drop off.

  20. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    I think I was a bit kind with my atrocious assessment of the Cardinal tackling.
    It just passed god awful and is heading into exile.

  21. Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    The Cards are winning. Again. Show some damned spine Texas.

    And where do they find these umps?

  22. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Mussberger is doing the Wisconsin game, thank God. He may be the only announcer who might cause me not to watch a game..

    • Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:47 pm

      Mussberger is still around? Jeez. I remember watching him and that turd Jimmy the Greek on the NFL CBS pregame shows as a kid back in the 1970’s.

  23. eddacker said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Damn, we earn our runs (by bribing an ump) but damn Texas has to cheat with those fences.

  24. eddacker said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    matt (the arm) holiday

  25. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Great throw by Matt Holliday to gun down the runner at home.
    [cue the Madonna music]

    The only reason I saw that play is because Stanford is at the half. Baseball blows.

    • Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:01 pm

      Football sucks. Until they get the PEDs out, and find a way to keep from dealing out head injuries, it is going to keep the suck. Those cumulative head injuries happen on every play and every full contact practice play, to every OL and DL player from HS to the pros. The guys who do the dirty work are getting fucked, and it ain’t right. Fuck football.

      • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm

        Ratings disagree. TV loves Football. Even HS teams are appearing.

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:32 pm

        Nevada, are you serious? Football sucks? It’s the best goddamn sport on TV. Always has been, always will be. People (fans) like myself want to see carnage. We anticipate and expect there to be bloodshed. We could give a flying fuck about the well being of player X. Hit him until his fucking mother cries. Ring out the sirens, and ready the body bags.

        Hit somebody.

    • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:02 pm

      Have a cold one.

      • Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:11 pm

        Ratings are good, so what? Just because it sells don’t make it right. That game is a brain damage epidemic.

  26. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    It was an accurate throw, not particulary strong. It was leaking gas on the hop..

  27. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Funny how a change of venue shifts a low-scoring affair for the first two games into a free-for-all. This has all the makings of a 4-hr game. That’s right up La Russa’s alley. He loves to lull the other team to sleep with all his pitching changes and such. I swear it’s a tactic of his. He elongates the game and outlasts his opponent. For an old man he has great stamina. Both physically and mentally.

    • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:03 pm

      ARF delivers!

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:48 pm

        Nipper, this is where I’d usually tell you to “Stay Thirsty, My Friend.” But I don’t want to come off as cliché or as some hackneyed blogger. You deserve better.

        Trick or Treat. Happy Halloween.

  28. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    I don’t think Wash would mind a high scoring affair at all. Texas has the much stronger LU. The blown call hurt big time ,though.

  29. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    It’s like they as soon as they left Missou and hit Texas, everyone forgot how to pitch.
    I know a ballpark makes a difference, but Jesus H. Christ. It shouldn’t be this disproportionate.

    “Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical.” –Yogi

  30. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    I turn on the USC/ND game for two minutes and now the Cards have 11 runs?

    This isn’t baseball, this is goddamn Nintendo shit.

  31. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    ND didn’t use any of their 3 timeouts on SC’s final drive. That’s a no-no in not only my book, but the masses.

    31-17 Men of Troy. Touchdown Jesus is gonna be sending some people to hell off that outcome.

  32. That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on October 22, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Oy, might need to revise that “TEX in 6” call. They’re gonna need at least 8 or 10, playing like this.

    • That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on October 22, 2011 at 8:19 pm

      14 for StL now … what a difference a few minutes makes. TEX is looking like last year’s WS TEX, too.

  33. That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on October 22, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    I swear I’ve never seen Nolan Ryan smile since becoming Rangers pres. That perpetual scowl looks like he’s smelling a bowl of raw eggs and kim-chi that’s been out in the sun about 4 days too long.

  34. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Absolutely incredible finish to Wisconsin/MSU. Hail Mary tipped OUT of the end zone, caught by MSU player and stopped short of goal line- reviewed and ruled he crossed the plane. MSU wins 37-31.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 22, 2011 at 8:38 pm

      Yeah, one of the best college games I’ve seen in quite awhile. Beginning of game, Wisconsin was kicking ass, then It looked like MSU was going to have an easy win late (beginning of 4th quarter) . . . Then Wisconsin came back and as you described, an incredible finish. Both teams put on a good show.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:13 pm

      As Tom Jackson and Boomer are wont to say…KNOCK IT DOWN!!!

  35. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Three big fly’s for Albert? I’m gonna have to start calling Pujols “Albert The Great.” Just like the horse of the same name who won the 2000 JGC in 159 1/5 and paid $13.00 to win. Needless to say, I was on Albert that day…

  36. Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    I told ya this had all the earmarks of a 4-hr game (4:04). Advantage ARF and Nipper.

    • Nipper said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:22 pm

      Texas was ARFed tonight!

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:42 pm

        You are correct, my friend. And please don’t forget: October is “Adopt a Shelter Dog Month.”
        Lots of good friends out there looking to shake. Extend your paw. Give a pup a home.

  37. Sierra Nevada said, on October 22, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Pujols is shaking his money maker tonight. His upcoming deal becomes more valuable by millions in one night.

  38. twinfan1 said, on October 22, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    I told Zeke that Oliver would groove one for him. Maybe, maybe not. Albert really is a dick, though. Great hitter. Maybe you have to be one to be the other. When he talked about his fuck up on the cut off he kept saying that everyone thought he’d go home with the throw.Albert, NOBODY thought the play was at the plate. Nobody.

  39. zumie said, on October 23, 2011 at 12:21 am

    In my opinion, Posey is a better all-around hitter than Sandoval, at this stage in their careers. Posey was the better hitter in ’10, in the bigger moments. They should be a great combo for years to come.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 23, 2011 at 1:14 am

      The numbers don’t support your opinion. Ands nothing justifies you completely leaving him out frequently. Before someone brings it up, I am not accusing you of being a bigot. But when you thought his magnificent first year here in 2009 ( far better than Buster’s first year) was in the minors, I don’t think your opnion of Sandoval as a lesser hitter than Posey can be taken seriously.. I understand that Buster has been chosen, with Timmy, to be the face of the franchise, but he’s simply not a better hitter than Pablo.

      • zumie said, on October 23, 2011 at 5:00 am

        I put a lot of emphasis on the “clutch” aspects of a hitter. And Pablo has to improve that part of his game. Statistics can be misleading. If a player hits two homeruns, and the team loses 13-7; but the next night the same player doesn’t get the runner in from third with less than two out, and the team loses 2-1, then the stats aren’t everything.
        And Pablo has durability issues, too.
        But having said all that, I’m a big Pablo fan. He is the most dangerous hitter on the Giants. He is the one batter these days that strikes big fear in a pitcher. I just don’t think he’s the best all-around hitter, in the sense of being the most effective in all given situations. I prefer Posey’s approach in that regard.
        And I disagree that Posey didn’t have the better first season. Posey shouldered a lot for the Giants in ’10, after joining the team in the middle of the season when they were stagnant.
        And when I forgot Sandovals season in ’09 that one time, it was just me being tired and having a glitch. I regard Pablo very highly. In addition to being a terrific player, he is a lot of fun to watch play.

  40. zumie said, on October 23, 2011 at 5:13 am

    I tend to forget a lot of stuff about Giants baseball seasons that are non-playoff seasons. The Giants from about 2005-2009 have become a blur for me. I watched a LOT of those games, and enjoyed them, but as time goes on, not much of it sticks. The game that I remember the most from that time period was the game the Giants beat the Yankees on a Saturday home game. I was at that game. They were giving out New York Giants caps, and the Giants won in extra innings. Nate the Great had the winning hit in extra-innings.

    • zumie said, on October 23, 2011 at 5:22 am

      And perhaps that kind of casualness about what I remember from certain seasons disqualifies me from being taken seriously on all of my opinions. I don’t disagree with that. I’m just a fan posting on a baseball blog, spouting stuff, trying to say something interesting once in a while. Just some dude with a laptop. (grin)

  41. zumie said, on October 23, 2011 at 5:32 am

    So the world is upside-down for the moment in the World Series- the Rangers beat the Cardinals the other night in National League style, and the Cardinals respond by beating the Rangers in American League style.
    And Pujols becomes part of World Series history. And the Rangers are in danger of laying another egg in the World Series. Should be a very interesting Game 4 coming up.

  42. zumie said, on October 23, 2011 at 5:36 am

    And congrats to Stanford for another dominant victory, and combined with some other outcomes on Saturday, will move Stanford even higher in the polls.

  43. zumie said, on October 23, 2011 at 5:57 am

    Don’t know if any of y’all saw this at the Slate website. It’s nothing earth-shattering. It’s just a cool little thing about the ’61 Yankees. The thing I found the most interesting about it is that Tony Kubek says he doesn’t follow pro baseball anymore.
    http://www.slate.com/slideshows/life/yankees-goofing-off-in-1961.html

  44. twinfan1 said, on October 23, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Just addressing their first years,you can check the numbers yourself- they were about equal w/RISP, Panda was otherworldly with 2 outs and RISP, far better. I think last year is poisoning your view of Sandoval. But over the course of a career nearly every hitter will “revert to form” w/RISP- he will hit about the same as his regular average. This is not arguable. But I shouldn’t have said you had any less right to your opinion. It just irks me when people are wedded to a preconceived notion and “fuck the facts”.


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