A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

What to Expect from the 2011 Baseball Winter Meetings

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 5, 2011

Well, don’t expect much. At least in terms of trades. I haven’t researched this, but it FEELS to me like the Winter Meetings haven’t had the same excitement to them that they had in years past. I think that has more to do with the deluge of information that we get now. Back in the day, all you heard about was a deal getting done once it was consummated.  Now you’ve got a million-fold media guys tripping over themselves to be the first to tweet out anything that even remotely resembles a rumor—it skews what’s really going on in Dallas this week: steaks and strippers. At least that’s what my Winter Meetings in Dallas would look like…..

Reyes signed his 6r/106 million dollar deal. The Marlins will regret the deal in the long term. Fast guys with injury problems who sign giant contracts don’t get more durable or more productive  into their 30’s. But they aren’t really worried about production at the plate, they’re worried about his impact at the gate, and signing Reyes isn’t a bad move at least initially for a team moving into a new ballpark……..

At least we don’t need to worry about Sabean signing anyone long term– he learned his lesson a long time ago and the new *board of directors* wouldn’t sign off on one anyway. I do think we will see a lot of free agent action this week. The  Reyes deal probably will get the domino’s to fall for the bigger free agent targets—Pujols, Fielder, Wilson, etc….

If I were writing out a wish list for this week, I think I’d like to see Sabean sign either Coco Crisp or Josh Willingham. We’ve already discussed the reasons here before so I won’t go over them again. But Coco at the top of the LU (with Melky in LF) or Willingham in LF (Melky in CF) would really get me excited about the 2012 LU. If neither deal happens I’m cool with it, and I don’t think either will go down, they’re just small moves that I think would make us better next year. I’d give either guy a two year deal. But they’re probably find more dough somewhere else…….

Retro-Time………

____________________________________________________________

On May 25th the Giants were 25-20 and tied for first place. It was the last time they would see 1st place that season. They proceeded to lose 10 of their next 11. They fiddled around a little more, trading a win and a loss. Today it’s June 13th, 1979, and the Cubbies are in town. We lost 3-2. Mike Krukow started for the Cubs and Dick Tidrow followed him with 2 innings of relief. 9,284 showed up for this Wednesday game—it’s not listed if this was a night game or a day game. The Count pitched for the Giants. It was an extra inning game that ended in the 10th when the Cubs went ahead against Randy Moffitt. There was no magic in the bottom of the inning as Clark, McCovey and Madlock all went quietly, as most did at the time, against HOF closer Bruce Sutter. Sutter actually won the Cy Young award in ’79.Joe Nieko, JR Richard, Tom Seaver and Kent Tekulve filled out 2-5……

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  1. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:21 am

    Snarkk posted, “Reyes to Marlins — 6 years for $106 million. That’s on top of Heath Bell 3 years for total $27M. Where the hell are they getting this money– while the Giants are packing in 3.3 million and squeezing lemons? Revenue sharing dough must be great, cuz it sure hasn’t been banked from 1500 customers at midweek night games…”

    Their new stadium is opening up and they expect that “1500” number to exponentially increase. Moreover, this team has some pretty nice pieces with Johnson, Vazquez, Nunez, Ramirez, Sanchez, Bonifacio, and Stanton. Also, don’t be surprised if they make a play for Pujols too – ESPN and SI are both reporting that the Fish are not done just yet.

    Agree with Flav that either Crisp or Willingham would be an upgrade to the lineup. Remember, there really isn’t a whole lot available out there and the bottom line is that we need at least two more additions (a serviceable infield utility/shortstop being the other one . . . and that will probably happen via trade). I’m down with that if it occurs.

  2. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:37 am

    Addendum to Pujols comment . . . Miami and Tampa are “magnets” so to speak for Latin ballplayers, obviously due to the Latin community in both areas, but equally due to the proximity (jump off point) to Latin American countries in the Caribbean/South America. Most flights fly direct to these countries vs. other U.S. cities, where the flights are at least 2 stop (and sometimes 2 day) flights, going through Miami or Houston. I know because I go to the Caribbean and South America frequently for SCUBA diving trips.

    This is what SI said about the Fish not being done shopping . . .

    “Even though the Securities and Exchange Commission is now reportedly investigating the financing for the Marlins’ new ballpark, a $515-million retractable roof stadium set to open in 2012, the club said that would not affect their offseason spending plans and it hasn’t. Miami inked Padres closer Heath Bell to a three-year, $27-million deal late Thursday night and now Reyes on Sunday night, meaning the previous penny-pinchers are responsible for the first and third most expensive contracts so far awarded this offseason.
    And they may not be done. Reports Sunday night said they were going to continue pushing for Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols and a starting pitcher, potentially the Rangers’ C.J. Wilson or the White Sox’ Mark Buehrle.

    Even if the Marlins don’t add any other big name this winter, they’ve already generated significant buzz around the club as they sell season tickets for the inaugural season in the new ballpark and moved themselves into playoff contention, particularly in light of next year’s expanded postseason that will feature a second wild card.”

  3. willieD said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:40 am

    Willingham would be a better fit, imo, as RH power bat ala Burrell…just not sure how well Melk can handle CF, but I guess that’s the plan. Torres can back up anywhere and give you excellent D. Reyes signing also take the Mets backup, the other Tejada, off the board I guess too.
    I give the Marlins credit–Reyes is an exciting player and had an excelent season last year. Yes he is going to command a big salary, but he is the type of player you can build around. I think mgmt. has rightly decided Hanley is not, and I bet they dump him off within a year. If Marlins make another move, I’d suspect it would involve an SP or quality pen guy, to keep up with Braves and Phils. This division should be very competitive, except of course for Mets.

  4. Giant Head said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Now that is a retro game I can relate to….1979 is the year as a 12-year old I became a die-hard Giants fan. That is the first year I can rememebr actively listening to every game on KNBR. I remember the tale3s of McCovey as he broke 500 homers (that year right?) and then Mad Dog Madlock being on the team and then getting traded to the eventual World Series champs Pirates. Great memories.

    I think Coco is the better fit because of the leadoff and CF superiority, but if we can add a bat like Willingham, I am also down with that idea. Seems like if they can get either at around $5 mill for 2 years, Barmes type of contract, Ithat would be the right ballpark, even though it was ridiculous giving Barmes that kind of deal.

    Do we not think Fontenot-Keppinger is worth keeping as the two IF backups?

    My bench is Fontenot-Keppinger-Backup C-Torres-Huff.

    If Huff is starting in left and we dont sign either Willingham or Crisp, then I could see Pill as the other bench player. I am hoping Belt proves he should be the starter at first during spring training.

    My prefered lineup:

    1 – Crisp – CF
    2 – Franchez – 2B
    3 – Panda – 3B
    4 – Posey – C
    5 – Cabrera – LF
    6 – Belt – 1B
    7 – Nate – RF
    8 – Crawford – SS

    versus

    1 – Cabrera – CF
    2 – Franchez – 2B
    3 – Panda – 3B
    4 – Posey – C
    5 – Willingham or Huff – LF
    6 – Belt – 1B
    7 – Nate – RF
    8 – Crawford – SS

  5. willieD said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Lot of interesting comments on Fangraphs re: value of Reyes in terms of wins vs. $$$, how much he needs to play, and how much drop off to expect, with varying opinions. Would have loved to have him here, but wasn’t in the cards. How dumb do Mets look for not making a deal last year?
    The writer Cameron makes a point responding to a blogger that it is almost impossible to have a home grown team, and that in order to compete for titles you have to go into the FA market or trade for similar type player.I think SF biggest problems have been because the home growns have not been able to hold their own at SS and OF, so they’ve had to look elsewhere .How wisely you do that is what separates franchises, often.
    Sabes plan is lock up the pitching at all costs as your big splash, and build around that with whatever bucks are left. So his next move(s) is going to be pretty important..

  6. James said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:39 am

    Fit? Coco Crisp hasn’t had a good, full time season since 2005. He would probably add nothing.

  7. Flavor said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I wouldn’t expect Coco to make it a full season but even at 120 games or so he will get himself to 2nd base often enough to make him worthwhile. I still like Torres as a utility OF and hope they sign him. He can fill in for Coco when he hits the DL. I think too many AL teams are going to be in on Willingham for us to make an offer to him…..
    Bill Madlock was an interesting guy for us. He production wasn’t as good for as as it was for the Cubs and the Pirates but we seem to have done ok on both trades (ie, we didn’t give up much to get him and we got 3 good pitchers from the Pirates for him):
    February 11, 1977: Traded by the Chicago Cubs with Rob Sperring to the San Francisco Giants for Andy Muhlstock (minors), Bobby Murcer and Steve Ontiveros.
    June 28, 1979: Traded by the San Francisco Giants with Lenny Randle and Dave Roberts to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Fred Breining, Al Holland and Ed Whitson.

    • willieD said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:21 am

      plus we got good blogger in the deal too.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:04 am

      I knew Dave Roberts had a long career, but we traded him in 79?

  8. twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Crisp has been rumored for months. Willingham’s name has begun to surface more as Beltran has allegedly become a long shot. Now it’s reported that the Giants are the team who put in a posting bid on Hiroyuki Nakajima.( Two reporters say it’s so, Shea says not) They would still have to sign him but hopefully this is a sign that they’re abandoning the idiotic notion of starting our third best SS prospect backed up by sheer A-Gony…I sure don’t get this Crisp OR Willingham. Willingham would be fine although nine teams are said be in on him. Crisp would not be an improvement on Torres. Also rumored is Ross returning. Despite some half ass praise for his work in the DWL, Belt did not progress. Right now he’s probably ticketed for Fresno again unless he knocks their socks off this spring. I actualy expect a fair amount of action at at the meetings.

    • Flavor said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:38 am

      I’m not sure what you wanted from Belt. He hit over .350 for most of the DWL ending it around .300. The play is very competitive down there.

      • twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:53 am

        A MLB caliber hitter should destroy that league, as Hector did in the VWL.

    • Nipper said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:53 am

      Giants have to get another bat even with a trade.

      • Nipper said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:58 am

        Damn we need a DH badly! Well how about some great pinch hitters that can play in the field now and then? Gotta do something to keep doom’in Denny from crying in his stable.

  9. Flavor said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:27 am

    I expect action at the WM too, but mostly in terms of FA players signing, not trades. Either way, it’s something to pass the time as Winter approaches….

    • Nipper said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:53 am

      These cold CA winters are something!

  10. Alleykat said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Giants put in a bid for SS Nakamaji (sp?) who hit 16 bombs In the Nipper league.Sorry Nip couldnt resist.

    • Nipper said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:55 am

      And never a finer league for sure.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:02 am

      As I noted above, two writers say that, Shea tweets that it’s not true.

  11. St said, on December 5, 2011 at 9:57 am

    They are all question marks. Troubling yr from Crisp and Torres. Willingham coming off a big hr yr, but is on a good bad good bad pattern. I could see him getting a juicy deal and struggling to hit 16 bombs, while providing below avg defense.

    • Nipper said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:00 am

      I would hate to be a GM. It’s better to bet on the horses.

  12. St said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:00 am

    I’m going to give Belt the benefit of the doubt. Was a long yr being yo-yo,d around, with all the scrutiny and expectations. Maybe mental fatigue more than anything.

  13. twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Huff WILL be in the starting LU. If they’re looking for another starting OFer, it means Belt won’t. Obviously that’s just my opinion, but it does make sense. And right now, for better or worse, the team seems in on Nate much more than Brandon.

    • Nipper said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:03 am

      Nate has experience and Belt does not. I sure hope Belt comes on strong in ST. That would really be a shot in the arm for this lineup.

  14. twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Doubting that Belt will be in the starting LU is not the same as not being for it, BTW. But they’d be certified morons if they sat Huff and his 11 million without finding out if this is indeed that “up year”. Obviously that would change if he came in out of shape…

    • Nipper said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:26 am

      Huff out of shape, never!

  15. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Strippers and steaks in Dallas? Yeehaaaa!

  16. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Up above, Blade quotes SI saying the new playoff format will be in place in 2012. will it? Jayson Stark recently blogged about huge detail issues with that. It all revolves around the fact the REGULAR schedule is in stone, or as Stark notes, refrigerator magnets already printed and distributed. But the one extra day needed for play-in presents lots of details nobody thought of.

  17. twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Totally off topic, and I haven’t heard the recording in awhile, so correct me if I ‘m wrong: doesn’t Bobby go like “Hi, Laura”, she says hi, and then almost immediately they’re yakking about Fine sticking his hand in the kids pants. And Laura is quickly seeming almost the instigator of the call. Even if she knew about all this, common sense would seem to dictate at least an initial surprise about the nature of the call, if not “Why the fuck are you calling me about this, Bobby?”

  18. twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Baseball blog or not, I’ll post my congrats to the Niners..

    9 years it’s been. 41 Niners have never tasted the playoffs. Before Harbaugh, the odds that their QB would ever get there with SF were slim and none. Most considered this a rebuilding season and now Harbaugh, Alex and Justin, Patrick, Akers, Frank,Joe, Vernon, Navorro, Carlos… have turned our sad sack losers into one of the elite teams in the NFL in Harbaugh’s first season. Most of the credit goes to Jim and his staff- but a bunch of guys used to failure have risen up and played like winners. So this post is to thank Jim for bringing playoff quality football back to the Bay Area. And a special congratulantions to the most maligned player in SF Niner history, or at least in the the 37 years I’ve been here- Alex Smith…

    • Alleykat said, on December 5, 2011 at 1:43 pm

      AH Dont forget the job Aldon Smith has done Twin.He has been AWESOME .Just what the 49ers needed a Fred Dean pass rusher!!!!! Who knew but the excellent scouting staff that he would turn into a force.

  19. twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    I wasn’t going to list all 50+ guys, I did what was on the top of my head. He was great, of course.

  20. unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Aldon Smith was in my eyes a project this season. He’s young and raw, and I figured he’d get bigger and stronger and be ready next year. I didn’t think he’d have much of an impact this season.

    Well, he’s on the verge (9.5 as of now) of becoming the 1st guy with 10 sacks for the Niners since Andre Carter in 2002. Not coincidentally, the last time the Niners were in the playoffs. Baalke and co. did their homeowrk with that guy. Their 2011 draft was pretty solid all the way around it.

  21. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Hall of Shame . . . Finally elected to the HOF via the Veterans Committee. Better late than never I guess, but it sure would have been nice if this true gentleman had been elected while he was alive. Santo died Dec. 3, 2010, from complications of bladder cancer at age 70. He had diabetes, which eventually cost him both legs below the knees, and worked tirelessly to raise millions for research into the disease. His credentials were impeccable – a nine-time All-Star, hit 342 home runs and won five Gold Gloves.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:06 pm

      Should read – “Ron Santo was finally elected to the HOF . . . “

  22. St said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Colletti swooped in and got Jerry Hairston, jr…2 yrs 6m

  23. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Jerry Hairston off the board . . . signing with Dodgers pending a physical.

  24. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    LOL . . . beat me St 🙂

  25. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Baggs said Sabean indicated that the Giants didn’t bid on Nakajima.

  26. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Harang entertaining the idea of going to Dodgers but wants more than 2 years. Twins sign Capps. Twitterverse lighting up w/ trade and signing rumors.

  27. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    and Baggs says Cosy Ross wants 2 years; if he only gets 1 yr he wants it at a hitter’s park

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:37 pm

      make that Cody Ross (how quick they forget, though of course I’ll never forget)

  28. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    finished A Band of Misfits by Andrew Baggarly last night; well worth reading; nice job

  29. unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    A-Gon is getting closer and closer . . .

    Remember seeing Santo when I was a kid at Wrigley. Those Cubs teams back in the day were pretty fun to watch.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 5:10 pm

      Chuck, I thought they were in back in ’69. Total collapse.

      • unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 6:44 pm

        I was there in 1968 for a Giants game that Juan Marichal pitched. My uncle Chuck took me, my brother, and his kids to.

        He’s still in Chi-town, on Lakeshore drive. . .

  30. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    this just Tweeted from JaymeeSireCSN:

    “Sabean said they are still open minded regarding Cody Ross. Ross just told me via text message ‘Giants are my number one choice.’ “

  31. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    One year and a club option year is all he deserves.

  32. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Thank you God – Willie Mo Pena signed two-year deal worth $5 million with the Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks in Japan.

  33. Alleykat said, on December 5, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Actually Blade,I would rather lock up Jamie Sire for a year.

  34. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Alleykat – OK, I give up . . . Who is Jamie Sire????? I know a Jaymee Sire that is a reporter on Oakland A’s, Golden State Warriors and San Jose Sharks telecasts.

    • Alleykat said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:04 pm

      My bad Blade Did mean Jaymee.Damn smartphone.

  35. twinfan1 said, on December 5, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Jaymee is a cutey but Kate Longworth has the greater “slut-ability” index..

    • Alleykat said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:11 pm

      AGREE Twin,Kate only has her beat with the knockers.and being a bimbo reporter.Jaymee is the one you bring home to mom.

  36. SanDawg said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    One of my boys turns 14 Wednesday, so I went to the mall today to get him a Niner hat to replace one he recently lost. I give him credit–he has seen very little Niner success in his sports-fan lifetime, but he has been rocking Niner gear year in and year out. Obviously, he is enjoying this year. I ended up at a “Lids” store and got suckered by the “buy one–get one half off” deal. I went a bit out of the box and got one of those low-profile Giants hats. I’ve got it on now and I’m not sure if I’m gonna be happy with it—its looks more like something Justin Leonard would wear in the Greater Greensboro Open. I also have a traditional MLB caliber SFG hat, but for some reason those look weird on me as the top juts way up—like ultra high profile. If I could find a cross between the two, that would be perfect.

    After Lids, I stopped at the grocery store where I strategically positioned myself behind this attractive young woman with great legs wearing a well worn orange Tigers “Ordonez” t-shirt with a Red Wings bag tucked under her arm for her groceries. Besides good looks, she brought a lot to the table. First off, I think we’d all agree the Ordonez T kicks ass. I was also impressed by the eco-friendly Red Wings bag and by the fact she was wearing short shorts and a tight Tigers T on a cool SD evening when the rest of us tenderfoots are all bundled up. I talked to her in line and she said she likes Comerica, but prefers Tiger Stadium cuz that is where her grandpa used to take her to games.
    …now, that’s a fucking catch in my book.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:13 pm

      Lucky grandpa. 😉

    • Alleykat said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:19 pm

      Nice SanDawg…Gotta Luv a Gal with class!

    • unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:30 pm

      ‘Scuze my ignorance as to your location. SD is San Diego? Surely not South Dakota . . .

      • blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:37 pm

        LQTM

      • SanDawg said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:41 pm

        Yes Chuck, San Diego…..or as some us like to call it “SanDawg”

      • Flavor said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:43 pm

        and what chick would be rockin’ that bod and that outfit and living in South Da-fucking-kota?

      • unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:56 pm

        Never heard it called San Dawg, dawg . . .

      • unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:02 pm

        Bundled up? Tenderfoot? Tiger? Red Wings? Sounds like something out of Fargo . . .

    • unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:33 pm

      My son (also 14) has been rocking his Willis jersey for 3 years now . . . I bought it too large, and it is just about right . . . The kid now wears a size 13 shoe. He passed me up shoe-wise a few months ago. He’s only 5’7″ at this point but I think he has a looong way to grow . . . .

  37. Flavor said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    So I’ve got to wonder: Is Colletti getting paid commission on each deal he’s doing this Winter?
    He’s signed Matt Treanor, Adam Kennedy, Mark Ellis, Juan Rivera, Chris Capuano and now Jairy Hairy Jr.
    If he’s looking to put together the “All Waiver Wire” team he’s accomplished his goal……..

    • blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 7:46 pm

      Flav, Colletti isn’t done – with the $27 million he saved on signing Heath Bell, he can sign at least another dozen of these “never beens” and “has beens.”

  38. blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    I’m reading the ESPN article about Heath Bell signing with the fish and came across this excerpt . . .

    “Leo Nunez, who had 36 saves this year, is on the restricted list after he admitted to playing under an assumed name. “The closer formerly known as Leo Nunez obviously did a great job for us. There is still a tremendous amount of uncertainty surrounding his situation. He’s now known as J.C. Oviedo,” Beinfest said. “Our intentions as of today are to tender him and work through the process with immigration, and we will go from there.”

    Too fucking funny.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:02 pm

      Flav, I’m wondering if this changes the standings in the Flap League?

      😉

      • Flavor said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:16 pm

        It almost seems like Dennis has taken over the GM duties of the Dodgers…….

    • unca_chuck said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:04 pm

      The quintessential player to be named later . . .

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:12 pm

        Tim McCarver used to tell the story as a Mets announcer: OUR Jose Uribe was Jose Uribe Gonzalez until traded. “He really was the player to be named later,” McCarver said, many times.

  39. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    I like San Dawg’s sartorial story. But I would, wouldn’t I?

  40. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Just reading Sabean’s comments by Baggs, I detect some jabs at management. I could be wrong — and I did not see or hear the comments to get the tone — but his lack of maneuverability seems to irk him. He sure sounds frustrated. Inhibited. Maybe that is standard.

  41. big flavor said, on December 5, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Well, baggs incorrectly reported the japanese ss thing and Sabean sounded like he made it triple clear to the media that this was false. Maybe baggs got bent with the tone Sabes used for that question. I think Sabes hates thid week with the media breathing down his neck over every tweet and rumor that hits the net. Nice to see baggs get in on my Lowrie for Affeldt trade that i posted last week.


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