A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Putting the Finishing Touches on the 2012 Team

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 13, 2011

As I expected in the December 9th thread, the Giants tendered Fontenot and waved bye bye to Keppinger. Based on their fiscal considerations as well as the strengths of each player, this makes sense. We also took one step closer to a living a life without El Presidente–anarchy never felt so good. The plan appears to be to let Stewart back up Posey and I’m fine with that for a short time. Stewey has a rocket arm and can lay a bunt down with the best of them. But he’s not a season-long answer. And if Bochy follows through on his plan to play Posey at 1st base vs lefties then Stewart isn’t going to fly behind the plate at a minimum of twice a week. I think the Giants just want to make SURE that Hector is ready for the job and they’ll watch him closely in the first month of the AAA season. If he’s hitting, he’ll come up some time in May.

E-Burriss looks like he’s also going to make the team as a super-utility guy. I’ve always WANTED to see him succeed at this level. He looks like a player, walks like a player, runs like a player; he just can’t seem to hit or field like one. The most surprising thing about him: 651 plate appearances and only 1 triple. You’d think he’d get credited with at least 3 or 4 just rolling out of bed in the morning. Anyway, this is probably his last shot at the mlb level. If he learns how to bunt, plays smarter defense and steals a bunch of bases he might have a nice little career when it’s all over. If not, he’s an ugly cross-breed of Joe Strain and Spook Jacobs…….

There are other utility guys out there. Ryan Theriot is available. He and Fontenot played together at LSU and actually won the College Baseball World Series in 2000 beating my Stanford Cardinal. Bastards. But if they didn’t tender Keppy they certainly aren’t going to sign Theriot who hits worse and would cost about the same. Burriss is the guy, for better or worse…….

Retro-Action Time…..


I’m trying to skip through 1980 fast. May 31st caught my eye. The Astros are in town for a Saturday game and JR Richard faced off against The Count. Richard threw a 3 hit complete game shutout running his record to 6-3 and his ERA to 1.85. What a bad-ass this dude was. He was dominating in 1980, by the middle of the Summer he was 10-4 with a 1.90 ERA> Sadly, he suffered a stroke on July 30th before a game. His survived but his career ended. He would go on to pitch in the Astros minor league system for a few years but never made it back to the big leagues. He would end up losing everything and became homeless in 1994, living under a bridge in Houston. In ’95 he became eligible for the mlb pension. I’m not sure how much that is a year…..

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  1. blade3colorado said, on December 13, 2011 at 7:03 am

    One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. And that trash was put out last night in the form of non-tendered players, including Theriot. Theriot took over as the primary shortstop in St. Louis last season, but his bat (.662 OPS), glove (-8.5 UZR) and speed (just four steals in 10 attempts) all disappointed the Cards and they went out and acquired Rafael Furcal before the deadline to take his spot. I wouldn’t expect a big increase in offensive production from Theriot. I think he made around $3.3 million or so . . .

    I would rather keep our in-house option (Burriss), who is at least younger and has potential upside.

  2. Bozo said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:07 am

    I know these wouldn’t be considered the first great SF FA signings, because they were both at the end of their careers. But, I think an honorable mention should go out to Little Joe in 81 and Reggie Smith in 82.The HR Morgan hit to knock the Dodgers out was not only a great moment but also a great game to play hookey from work, what a fun day. And Reggie? It has to be one of the gutsiest FA signings ever, I mean the guy, as a Dodger no less, had climbed into the stands at the Stick to go after some fans just the year before. Also, the full body lean on Sax whenever he dove back to the bag at first was an absolute classic.

  3. willieD said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:16 am

    There has to be a better option, and I think back (or front) of his mind Sabes has to wonder about what injuries did to his team last year. Lack of quality depth really screwed the Giants on middle IF and C, and there haven’t been any improvements added to the mix. Nice call on Paulino, Loo.
    burriss is basically a repeat of Ford–all he can do at mlb caliber is run. He’s a 4-A ball player, who hopes to be Jerry Hairston.
    I went and looked up 1980 in B-R, and was surprised to see this was the year Stros won the West. Schmidt led almost every power category and Phillies beat Royals for whole enchilada. J. R. was a beast, plus Cedeno and Cruz, solid LU top to bottom, really good pitching. Just like Rose (who I think was on that Series winning Philly team), every team Morgan was on late career seemed to do well.
    This was also the year SF scored fewest runs in the league, and pitching was sub par too.

  4. willieD said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Looking at B-R stats for 1980, you gotta wonder how SF won as many games as it did, 75 I think. Which leads me to topic for later discussion: what do you look for in a mgr.? Does it make a diff if you have a young team (like say Astros of 2012) with a few vets in rebuild mode, or a mostly vet team vying for a title?
    Mgr. of the year usually goes to one of two types: the guy who takes a pre season underdog to the top, or the guy leading the most dominant team in the league. Imo, a guy who can compete with sub par talent and get the most out of his team, which might be middle of the pack, is actually a better mgr.
    I’ve said this about basketball coaches too in HS—if you have talent it’s a lot easier. Sure, you have a vision of what you want them to do and you prepare in practice to execute that. But sometimes the guy doing the best job in the league doesn’t have much to work with, and manages to build a team that competes well.

  5. Nipper said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:31 am

    I bet Chuck is still pining away for his favorite player……Ishi!

    • zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:45 am

      Ishi, last of his tribe.
      It’s hard to resist saying that, isn’t it?

      • zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:46 am

        The tribe being the Yahi, btw, in Nor. Cal.

  6. zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Here’s a little more trivia for ya- the UC Berkeley professor that turned Ishi into his pet sociological project was the father of…..Ursula K. Leguin, famous science fiction author.

    • Nipper said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:54 am

      When are you going to read another baseball book? Of all the sports, baseball seems to have the most books about it.

      • zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:29 am

        Yeah, haven’t read one in a while. I need to get to one. They’re a lot of fun to read.
        I’ve been reading Neal Stephenson’s new novel. It’s very good. And then I’m going to read a non-ficiton book about New York City in the 1960s called “The Savage City.” After that I want to read director John Sayle’s new novel “A Moment In The Sun.” That’s my reading queue in the immediate future.

      • Bozo said, on December 13, 2011 at 1:04 pm

        Neal Stephenson, Zum? Snow Crash is one of my all time favorites. I also really enjoyed his whole Quicksilver trilogy, although not sci fi, they were very entertaining. Whats his new one?

  7. Flavor said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:57 am

    W’s signed Kwame Brown. Jesus Chris, I fucking knew they were gonna do something stupid. They HAVE to do something stupid at least once a year. “sign someone just to sign someone.” Idiotic. At least it’s jsut a 1 yr deal. Brown can’t run the floor for shit and he can’t shoot. He’s an upgrade on Beeds defensively, I guess. All in all, dumb signing…….

    • zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:32 am

      I don’t get the Sac Kings signing Chuck Hayes. Yeah, he’s from the Central Valley, but the fans aren’t going to care about that when the Kings go 25-57 this season.

    • snarkk said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:39 am

      The stupid thing was wasting the amnesty thing on the guard Charlie Bell…

  8. St said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:06 am

    I think they will get more thump from the right side to back Craw. He and Burriss would be the weakest hr duo since that 80 combo of LeMaster and Pettini.

  9. St said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Just 1 yr 7m. They are desperate for rebounding and some heft down low. Brown should help.

  10. Kevin said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:34 am

    The Warriors have had some good teams, and good players, but yeah Mr Brown is not really an upgrade. So far the Sacto Kings have not done any dumb signings yet. And I can hardly wait to see Jimmer play.

    • willieD said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:47 am

      This is a way different level in terms of speed and contact, all about stats, money, and rep. The 3 line is further back, and he’s going to have to guard seasoned pros who get all the calls, and fight his way through picks set by massive post players. could be in for a rude awakening, since he isn’t quickest guy on the planet. there really is only one ball out there for 5 guys, and he has to fit in. took jj redick a while.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:33 am

      Can his Mom be sued for the nickname she gave an innocent boy?

  11. twinfan1 said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Just a quickie- I’m sorry I brought up my cancer again, I was intending not to . Frankly, I when I started sharing about this, I thought I’d be dead long ago. Now I don’t blame any of you if your thought is “Well, die already”..anyway, I won’t bring it up again.

  12. Giant Head said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:50 am

    Meet the new Warriors management, same as the old Warrior management. Kwame Brown is one of the worst players I have ever seen! He is the antithesis of West Coast basketball…that is what I fear in hiring Mark Jackson as coach. He is going to try and re-create slow-down east coast post up basketball and these new owners handed the keys to him to do this…

    Is Larry Ellison circling around the Hornets and can he bring them to San Jose???

    • St said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:34 am

      Slow down east coast style with Curry and Ellis and no low post scorer? Rubbish.
      This is one player, here for 1 yr. You’d rather see Amundson?

      • Giant Head said, on December 13, 2011 at 11:43 am

        well we have not seen how he is going to handle Curry and Ellis and their shoot first thoughts, but with David Lee, Udoh, Bioedrins and now Kwame, Jackson will and is going to play a slow it down, post guys up offense and try to bang on defense. We dont have a roster to do either and now we will watch the Clippers pass us by as Memphis and Oklahoma Citry have done now in the last two years…another 5-year Warrior rebuilding plan…

        I dont blame that on Jackson or new management/ownership, but they were promising bigger things….if we finish with a high draft pick, they are probably drafting a big center, slowing down the rebuilding effort that much further..

  13. twinfan1 said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:16 am

    I could give a shit what style of basketball Jackson wants to play as long as it’s something we haven’t seen much of around here… what’s that called? Damn, cat’s got my tongue–oh, yeah, WINNING basketball. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt at least until the Christmas decorations come down..

  14. Kevin said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:22 am

    WillieD, yeah but all rookies have to go through that. Even Kobe had to go through that. That is why I don’t understand sports and the way they pay players. give them huge contracts and they have not even played in a pro game!

  15. twinfan1 said, on December 13, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Regarding J.R., he eventually became a Christian minister in Houston and has helped the homeless and is also involved in raising funds to help establish youth baseball leagues.

  16. willieD said, on December 13, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Absolutely nothing wrong with trying to establish low post presence as a part of your offense. Biedrins, when he was going well, shot a very high pct from the floor, ran well, and could actually dribble and drive to the hoop from elbow with his left hand.
    Posts take time to develop—I’m surprised how few post players today have real go to moves. bill russell, never much of an NBA scorer, worked to develop a hook shot (great weapon!) with either hand in college. Older guys too could pass out of either low or high post to cutters and shooters coming off screens. Utah used to run that stuff through Mailman with Stockton and Hornacek.
    Ws have been way too perimeter oriented for a long time—and shooting from long range all the time gets you killed in transition at this level and doesn’t get you to FT line either. More power to Jax if he can get something going inside. Inside sets up your outside, ideally.

    • Giant Head said, on December 13, 2011 at 11:45 am

      not with this roster willie…what we are going to be the one team in the Western Conference playing a low-post game as nearly every other team is running by us on the break…this is going to be an u-g-l-y, u-g-l-y season…when do pitchers and catchers report?

  17. Giant Head said, on December 13, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    agreed Twin…now let’s talk Colby Rasmus trade:)

    • twinfan1 said, on December 13, 2011 at 12:33 pm

      Everyone knows I’m no big fan of Nate, but I don’t see Colby as an upgrade.

  18. St said, on December 13, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    I’m not a big NBA follower and honestly have no idea what changes Jackson will implement, but it’s hardly a secret they need to rebound and defend better, whether they play up tempo or not.

    • Nipper said, on December 13, 2011 at 12:48 pm

      Jackson seems bent on getting the W’s to play defense. Brown is a body and he’s not in there for offense for sure.

  19. Alleykat said, on December 13, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Hey Twin, I remeber you saying about Stennets 7 hitgame yesterday.Heres quite a feat The Giants Mike Benjamin a career .229 hitter put together an incredible 4 gm streak starting on June 14,1995,he tied the.Giants single game record with 6 hits.It was part of a stretch in which he tied the Major League for most hits 2 games with 10.Set a MLR for 3 games at 14,and tied a MLR with 15hits in 4 games.

  20. zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Bozo, Stephenson’s new novel is “Reamde,” a hi-tech thriller. He writes entertaining, LONG novels. This one is a 1,000 pages or so!

  21. unca_chuck said, on December 13, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Ahhh, gotta check that out. Snow Crash is excellent. The whole cyberpunk genre came out of that book.

    Jackson led the crowd that showed up to ont of their recent practices with the chant “Defense! Defense! Defense!” Will it work? We’ll see . . .

    • ewisco said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:02 pm

      i have all his books. though not the new one.

    • ewisco said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:21 pm

      Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan is also excellent in a cyberpunk kind of way.

  22. stixwiz said, on December 13, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Alley: Do you spose Benjamin got into some of Timmy’s kinda medicine ~ or maybe dipped into the type that Doc Medich used for his no-no?

    • Alleykat said, on December 13, 2011 at 4:12 pm

      Stix…You would of thought he was high on something.All i know was every Giant player wanted to use his bat,rub it,rub his hair,just be around him hoping their own bats would wake up.It was just a remarkeable week of fame for him.

  23. Kevin said, on December 13, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    This was in the sfgate article on KBrown signing, God bless agents for stating the obviouse

    Agent Mark Bartelstein says the offer in Golden State was “too good to pass up.”

    Yeah, too good to pass up, I don’t know if someone offered me $7 mill for one years worth of work, I would probably have to sleep on it, get back to them in a day or two.

  24. Kevin said, on December 13, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    not even a year, 6 months worth of work, of course if the Warriors make the playoffs it would be a little longer.

  25. twinfan1 said, on December 13, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    The money Brown is getting is why many fans could have cared less if there was a season.. I’d be in that group if I didn’t appreciate 2 and a half hours of any sports ( college basketball doesn’t count) in the evening..

  26. DJLoo said, on December 13, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Stix: I’m pretty sure you meant the late Dock Ellis…

  27. Alleykat said, on December 13, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Loo….Pretty impressive of Doc Ellis to pitch a no hitter on LSD.Wonder if it would have Todd Wellenmeyer.

    • DJLoo said, on December 13, 2011 at 5:44 pm

      Depersonalization can make you a better pitcher…

  28. Alleykat said, on December 13, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Helped……Shit maybe i need to take.some

  29. EdGdsnInExile said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    I know its wishful thinking, but do any of you think Sabean’s ‘we’re done for the year’ is really it? I recall reading that previously he had to stick by the agreed budget but could come back if there was a real opportunity. I know they’ve got the current roster’s contracts to deal with still. But the reason I ask is the Twins signed Willingham today, and Cuddyer is still out there; according to MLB Trade Rumors, he’s looking for upwards of $30 million. And kind of quietly, the market seems to have fallen out on Beltran. Just wishing/hoping…

    By the way, among the problems with Kwame Brown–remember MJ drafted him here in DC–is that he doesn’t think like a ‘big’, but likes to handle the ball, etc. I’ve heard that’s tempered a little after 8-9 years, but despite his length, he’s no real defender or banger. Good luck with him.

    • zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 8:54 pm

      It’s possible Beltran’s time with the Giants hurt his market value. He wasn’t all that much of an impact player for the Giants last season.

      • James said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:25 pm

        May the Giants line up always be filled with low impact players from this upcoming season forward.

      • zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:20 pm

        That .323 he hit for the Giants is deceptive. When the season was on the line for the Giants, he wasn’t hitting .323.

      • James said, on December 14, 2011 at 8:15 am

        If his performances in August and September had been reversed, the Giants would undoubtedly have been let down by him “When the season was on the line.”

    • unca_chuck said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:08 pm

      A poor man’s Chris Webber . . .

  30. paulinasia said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Ed, I kind of agree that Sabean’s “we’re done” sounds a bit strange coming before we’ve even hit the middle of December. On one hand, if all of the “if’s” of injured players returning to form next season comes true, then sure, the team is pretty much good to go, should be very competitive as is. On the other hand, 5th starter, something at shortstop, and more power off the bench still seem a bit weak. (Not even going to address back-up catcher, which is very key, as it sounds like the team is fine starting the year with Stewart but will certainly keep an eye on Sanchez as the season progresses). I’m guessing Sabean just means “that’s it, no more big ticket items to be added”, but he’s always been good (well, sometimes he’s been good) at filling a hole cheaply that no one else saw coming. I think there could still be a surprise or two… not of major impact, but shoring up some weaknesses. And I still cannot believe Zito will be the 5th starter…

    • zumie said, on December 13, 2011 at 9:21 pm

      He’ll be the fifth starter for a few weeks….then….hello, phantom injury….

  31. snarkk said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Burriss’ appearances in aggregate so far at the MLB level have proven he is not an MLB quality player. Not. Unless management has seen something in him develop over a few months in the offseason that he did not have before, the only top quality he has is the meager amount of his paycheck. To me, it’s nearly a joke to count on him as a semi-regular contributor. I think it’s even money he won’t last the summer on the squad, if he starts on the 25 out of ST…

  32. St said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Can’t fault Sabes. You see guys like Furcal getting 8m 2 yrs, backup inf’s cashing in, lousy catchers netting multi yr deals..and he’s got little wiggle room with 10 or so players due arbitration, incl Mr L, who might blow things up a bit. So, yeah, I think they are going to ha e to go with what they have in the system unless something falls in their lap like Burrell did 2 yrs ago.

  33. EdGdsnInExile said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    I’ve got to believe Sabes is keeping eyes/lines open, as his staff does the busy-work of contracts for roster players.

    I’m personally biased in terms of Burriss, but for Snarkk and those of you negative/skeptical on him, I’m surprised that the team has been pretty adamant and decisive he’s the backup. Of course, that could be just temporary bluff. He did come up at short, so maybe they feel he was out of place at 2B. He showed a lot more offensive competence in his first year.

  34. EdGdsnInExile said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    That’s it for me from this coast…

  35. snarkk said, on December 13, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    On the Braun thing, I don’t have much to say other than I’m not surprised. I’m not surprised nowadays about any player taking PEDs. Before this came out, no way I was thinking PEDs were gone from baseball, and the same holds after this incident. Why does the MLBPA fight testing tooth and nail, and then allow for some weak ass compromise testing regimen on HGH and claim purity? Because the players are using, of course. Still. And probably will be as long as they have the cash to pay guys like Conte that we haven’t yet heard about that are a coupla steps ahead of the testing police. And that’s assuming the tests were NOT administered in a way that allows all but the stupidest (Braun?) to use the junk, and still avoid detection. Nobody is above suspicion. Nobody. Giving Pujols a 10-year deal seems to fit in with all of this…

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