A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Joe Torre is a Freaking Numbskull

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 16, 2011

The article in The Merc about Torre squashing a potential rule change for catchers had me doing a slow burn. His comments were at best dismissive and at worst condescending. When asked about Bochy’s arguments for a rule change (and according to the article he called Torre several times to discuss it last Summer) he said, “Well, listen, I knew it was more emotional than anything else…..Being a catcher for a lot of years, I knew what the consequences were.”

I wasn’t there but the “Well, listen” start to his sentence is the first thing that pissed me off. People that say this usually have their head cocked a little sideways and slightly forward, they might have a trace of a smile on their face like they know more than you do and there’s often a dramatic, slight pause before they bestow to the listener the great honor of hearing their pompous rhetoric—they’re about to educate you on something–*tell you what time it is*, so to speak.

He then proceeds to use the word “emotional” to describe Bochy’s intentions, despite the fact that Bochy called him “several times over the Summer” not immediately after the incident occurred when you would expect *emotions* to be at their highest and most influential. Degrading someone’s argument as “emotional” completely invalidates any rational foundation it might have.

He then ends the sentence by pointing to his great and storied career of “being a catcher” and of knowing “the consequences”. Well, dumbass, Bochy was a catcher, too. And what *consequences* is Torre referring to? That you can suffer horrendous, career ending,  physical injuries to all parts of your body, including your brain, by standing in a motionless sometimes blind position while you wait for a human missile to take flight and ultimate aim at your defenseless body without any intention of touching the plate whatsoever?

I am more convinced than I’ve ever been that there needs to be a rule protecting catchers at home plate. You aren’t allowed to blast your body full speed into a player at first, second or 3rd base in an attempt to dislodge the ball from an infielder’s glove. Why home plate? Because that’s the way it’s always been? Bullshit. Bochy noted that “these players are getting bigger, stronger and faster.” And what about the facts we now know about the brain and impact? Concussions are being taking more seriously than ever before–the NFL is considering having a freaking neurologist on the sidelines of all games. So either Torre is either too uneducated to know what *the consequences* actually are or he’s been hit in the head so many times he doesn’t even understand what the hell is going on anymore. Which one of those guys do you wanna be, Joe?

And yet Torre is so filled with hubris that he can’t even recommend that the Rules Committee take up the matter? What an ass. He ended his comments by saying, “Well continue to listen….We’ll listen to anything that makes sense.”

That’s just more jibber jabber language designed to demean the intentions of Bochy. The fact is, there needs to be something that protects catchers at the plate from these type of violent collisions.

His decision to not even send this to a committee to discuss it further is reckless, ignorant and short sighted…..

My idea: there are a ton of rules in baseball that have to do with “in the judgment of the umpire*. I think there should be a rule that *in the judgment of the umpire, if the runner makes no attempt to tag home plate he is automatically called out.” This would address the runners who turn themselves into human missiles who obviously have no intent of trying to tag home plate but rather are trying to dislodge the ball from the catchers glove by essentially running him over and hoping for the best (or *worst* which often includes a concussion or some other type of injury). Conversely, the catcher would no longer be allowed to physically seal off the plate. If he sealed off more than 50% of the plate, the runner would be called safe automatically……


Reeeeeetro Game of the Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s August 14th, 1980 and the Giants are playing the Braves. 5,448 showed up to watch Al Hargesheimer take on Larry McWilliams. Ok, so it wasn’t the most exciting pitching match up. For some reason, I always loved Al Hargesheimer. It was probably his name. He only won 5 games in his career, and this was one of them. Moonman pitched 2.2 innings for the save and we won 5-1. Jim Wohlford is now leading off. Hey, that could be his ticket to the big contract, he went 3 for 3 and a walk on this breezy, freezing Thursday evening………

93 Responses

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  1. Giant Head said, on December 16, 2011 at 5:55 am

    You are not allowed to take out the shortstop or second basemen to break up a double play?

    • Flavor said, on December 16, 2011 at 6:07 am

      There are rules that cover it. You can’t go out of the base path. And you have to give the infielder a path to throw the ball, meaning you have to go down, you can’t just run right through him. There are no rules that cover collisions at home plate.

  2. Giant Head said, on December 16, 2011 at 6:01 am

    Point being, runners can try knock into infielders trying to make a play, but infielders don’t attempt to block second base or third base with their bodies.

    You can also question why can a catcher blockl a plate, but other infielders cannot? Catching is a dangerous position and the problem does not require a rule change. Posey should not have put himself in that position to get wiped out and ruin his season when he could have been in front of the plate to make the catch and reach back for the tag or played behind and left of the plate and put the tag down.

    It sounds sensible to want to protect the catcher as the NFL has tried to protect the QB, but don’t you agree this over protection of the QB has changed the game and not necessarily for the better.

    • Flavor said, on December 16, 2011 at 6:10 am

      actually, I’m fine with the rules that are now protecting the QB. And the key word there is *rules*. Why can’t there be a rule, any rule, about how a runner comes into home plate and/or how a catcher is allowed (or not allowed) to block the plate?

    • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 9:48 am

      Blaming Posey for Cousins’ assault is idiocy. Posey WAS NOT BLOCKING THE PLATE. He WAS in front of it. How often must one hear and see that to figger it out? “Reach back for the tag”.. that’s fucking hilarious. He had no fucking opportuinty to make a tag even if he had the ball.

  3. Flavor said, on December 16, 2011 at 6:22 am

    there are a shitload of rules in baseball. Here are the rules that affect the runner.

    As you can see, the phrase “in the judgement of the umpire” is repeated over and over. I don’t see why there can’t be a rule that applies to the runner coming towards home plate, that if he makes no attempt to tag the plate he is automatically called out. This would prevent the runner from turning himself into a human missile……….

  4. dirtnrocksnreno said, on December 16, 2011 at 7:11 am

    I don’t necessarily want a change to the rule but the argument that runners can break up a double play doesn’t hold for me. The fielder pivoting at 2nd can also fire the ball at the runners’ melon as he makes the throw, forcing him to duck. It creates something of a counterbalance to their exposure. The catcher is defenseless.

  5. ewisco said, on December 16, 2011 at 7:37 am

    the other point that flav makes though, is the part about launching yourself at the catcher without any attempt to touch the plate. and that’s what happened to buster. there’s no excuse for that and no missing the point. it’s obvious when you see it and it should be called an out.

  6. ewisco said, on December 16, 2011 at 7:38 am

    GREAT BB of the day too.

  7. DJLoo said, on December 16, 2011 at 8:03 am

    I think the only guy who worships Mays as much as Torre is Joe Morgan. Torre loves to tell Mays stories.

  8. willieD said, on December 16, 2011 at 9:20 am

    torre is FOS. I think guys from his era have this idea that’s how the game was always played yadda yadda. Problem is, baseball has basically legislated old school type of retaliation out of the equation today. If the Giants had beaned Hanley, you’ve got ejections, fines and suspensions for them, and nothing for the dickhead Cousins.
    Umps read pitcher intentions to bean guys, i. e. deliberately attempt to injure a batter, and on the bases, and enforce this stuff all the time. No reason you can’t do the same for a play at the plate.

  9. unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Well, the football argument is a little disingenuous as they are really going overboard in trying to protect players. It’s now to the point that if you are a safety, you can’t hit a WR going over the middle without drawing a penalty. James Harrison’s hit was illegal and should have been dealt with the way they did. But there are numerous calls every game that draw penalties. Larry Grant was flagged for hitting Skelton in the legs trying to sack him. Grant was hit from the side, and was falling, through no intent of his own and he grabbed Skelton’s legs, and incurred a 15 yard penalty. It’s ludicrous. You now have like a 2′ window to hit the QB. Pretty much from the shoulders to the waist.

    But a rule to call guys out when they clearly veer from the basepath to nail a catcher would be easy to implement and enforce. Cousins went out of the baseline to hit Posey. That should be an out. As is not touching the bag when sliding into any other base with the intent to break up a throw from the fielder.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:14 am

      Whether football is going overboard is irrelevant to the discussion as to whether players in a helpless postion should be protected from unnecessary harm. The point is that even football, where the fucking GOAL is to hurt people, has taken the steps to protect players from the kind of hits than Torres endorses.

  10. twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 9:34 am

    As McCarver has said in arguing in for a rule change: “What (Cousins) did, he replaced home plate with the catcher. He had no intent of going into home plate. And the rule says you can do that.” Until the rule is changed it will continue to happen until there is a truly catastrophic injury, perhaps to the runner. If Cousins head is positioned a few inches inches differently, it’s Gerber time for the rest of his his life..
    I’ve pointed out the terrible toll that concussions took on catchers of the 19th century, with many ending up in asylums. It was a mark of courage when a catcher was knocked unconscious but still finished the game. Men like Torres and Sciosca still cling to those neantherthal notions of “courage”..

  11. St said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:14 am

    I agree it’s an issue that needs to be addressed. I also have to admit I don’t know how I would have felt if it had been the other team’s catcher and we scored the winning run? Feel bad for the catcher, but say hey, it’s part of the game?

    I remember this incident and applauding Nate’s hard nosed play.


    I guess I have a different perspective now. Unfortunately it will likely take something worse than a broken leg for the rules to change.

    • Flavor said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:25 am

      this is an example of a play I would also ban with a rule change. But go look at both hits. Nate hits this guy standing up and still manages to touch the plate. Cousins went air born with a single target of the catcher–inflicting as much pain as he could in order to get Posey to drop the ball.
      To me, the Nate take out and the Cousins take out are in the same ball park but Cousins was much much worse…..

    • unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:29 am

      The difference I see in that deal is that the catcher was clearly standing on top of the plate. Plus, he was nowhere near to catching the ball. He was blocking the plate without the ball. Plus, he was standing up. But the case could very well be made that Scheirholtz should have just slid under the catcher, and that the hit was ‘excessive.’ Still and all, the Chinese catcher was pretty much at fault for blocking the plate when the throw wasn’t going to get there nearly in time anyway. In Schierholtz’s defense, I’m sure he didn’t want to slide into the catcher’s shinguards as he was standing up.

      Compare that to the Cousins/Buster play. Posey was off to the side, and the ball got there before Cousins did. There was a clear area to reach home plate without steamrolling Posey, who was down in his crough trying to collect the throw. Cousins was just a guy that was trying to stick with the team. Trying to make a name for himself, so he went out of his way to blast Posey. Weird thing is, the Marlins nosedived after this game, and sunk to the bottom of the standings.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:38 am

      That one is always brought up as if it’s the same. It’s not. Schierholtz is making a straight beeline to the plate, in fact he touches the plate without having to alter his path. He goes back to make sure, but he touched the plate with his right foot. He never leaves the basepath to go after the catcher. And the catcher is blocking the plate before the ball gets there, illegal in MLB

      • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:59 am

        Didn’t see the comments from Chuckles and Craig. I suppose you could make what Nate did illegal, but the catcher also made an illegal play. One other huge difference- the throw. It was high and toward the third base side- the catcher had no play on it without going through Nate..which, if you look closely, he was starting to do. There would have been a collision regardless..

      • St said, on December 16, 2011 at 11:36 am

        I think it’s reviewable. Which highlights the problem of a rule change. Umps would have to look at it from various camera angles. In the last shot, you can argue the catcher moves out in front of the plate to catch the ball. I thought from that angle, Nate went out of the baseline to nail him with a forearm. But the issue isn’t which is worse, but how does an Ump distinguish which is legal and which isn’t.

      • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 12:33 pm

        Relay is absolutely essential for most for those calls. But’s not arguable about one thing- the catcher was blocking the plate without the ball. So whether Nate did anything illegal, the run would count. IMO.

      • unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 12:34 pm

        I didn’t see Craig’s either, but the rule change is simple. If you veer out of the baseline to hit the catcher, you are out.

        As far as reviewing it goes, well, it wouldn’t take that long. Cousins’ case is a clear example of leaving the baseline to hit Posey. If the catcher is blocking the plate without the ball, in front of the plate, then you have the right to try reach the plate. If the base line is open to reach the plate, you score.

      • unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 12:38 pm

        However, at the ump’s discretion, he can call the runner out. As in Schierholtz’s case. That one could be debatable under the new rule. Looking at the highlights of that game, though, there was a lot of tension due to all the USA players getting hit by pitches that game.

      • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 1:09 pm

        Any replay can still get it wrong. But having a rule at all still is a deterrent. Rethinking my postion on Nate’s play- they have to err on the side of saftey- Nate should be out. The purpose of any rule on this is to prevent serious injury.

  12. unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:16 am

    You mean I agree with Tim McCarver?

    I may have to rethink this . . .

    It doesn’t happen all that much, but yeah, someone is going to get permanently disabled.

    Look at the bat thing. Maple bats were rare until Barry Bonds used one to set the single-season HR record (and I can’t even recall seeing one of his bats explode), so players started using them in droves. Hundreds of exploded bats later, and with Tyler Colvin getting a punctured lung while rounding 3rd base and getting pierced with a maple bat shard, Bud’s finally coming around to the idea that maple bats are dangerous. New players coming up can’t use them, but current players that have been using them still can. Good job, Bud. I thik they’re scheduled to get phased out, but I can’t recall the time frame, if there even is one.

  13. twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Maybe a rulle change isn’t neccessary, I forget who first came up with it, but the spiked chest protector should take care of the problem. Nobody’s launching himself at this.

    • EdGdsnInExile said, on December 16, 2011 at 2:04 pm


  14. Kevin said, on December 16, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Bonds sat stoically as U.S. District Judge Susan Illston told baseball’s home run king that he had avoided prison but must spend one month in his two-acre Beverly Hills estate, two years on probation, serve 250 hours of community service and pay a $4,100 fine.

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/16/BAGO1MDGSG.DTL#ixzz1gjUjeLcS

  15. Alleykat said, on December 16, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    To this day,Mike Sciosca will tell you the hardest hit he ever took was when Chili Davis steamrolled him in LA.They both had to be carted off.But that.SOB Sciosca still held on to the ball for the out.Can.t stand LA I will hate them for life,but I did admire Sciosca.s toughness as.the best blocker of HP ever.The dude never dropped a ball in a missle collison at home.

  16. snarkk said, on December 16, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    I’d say 8 years and probably $10 million+ of our taxpayer dollars was well worth the one month of mansion arrest for Bonds. That is, If you’re an idiot US Attorney’s office and zealot IRS investigator out to prove some point, whatever it was. What an absolute waste of prosecutorial, investigator and court time. The judge’s sentence basically slapped the US Attorney’s office upside the head. And, I give it better than even money that the 9th Circuit tosses the obstruction conviction. Meanwhile, not one Wall Street fraudster gets prosecuted for damn near bringing the country to its knees, and now its revealed that the Fed secretly funded them to the tune of hundreds of billions more that we didn’t previously know about. Lovely…

    • unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 3:04 pm

      Not that I’ll ever be a big Martha Stewart fan, but SHE goes to jail over $6,200 and all these Wall St. assholes rape pension funds to the tune of billions of dollars, and they skate?

      • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 3:11 pm

        I’m rather fond of her bundt cake..

  17. Kevin said, on December 16, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    I don’t know which was a more waste of money by our court system. The Bill Clinton sex scandal (Scandal, getting a BJ in the oval office…really)or MLB’s steroid scandal.

  18. EdGdsnInExile said, on December 16, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Flav, you’re proposal makes eminent sense. Given that more video review is being introduced, it should be included.

    Despite having not yet read Torre’s remarks, I’ll add one obviously other fact to the discussion: there’s not a 2B or other player in the league now who’s not build like a college linebacker. The Darrel Thomas’ of Torre and Sciosia’s days don’t exist anymore–OK, well, Eugenio might qualify, but…They can indeed become missiles that cause serious, if not career-ending, injuries.

    • EdGdsnInExile said, on December 16, 2011 at 2:11 pm

      ‘other obvious’–it’s Friday, after all.

  19. twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    There’s not even a sane argument against a rule change to prohibit these hits. “No problem, it’s totally safe!”
    “No one has died yet!” And the latter is the ONLY reason there isn’t a rule change…these people ( like Torre) are idiots and a death or a broken neck or serious injury to a Yankee is what it will take to have a change “make sense” to them..

  20. DJLoo said, on December 16, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Cuddyer’s a Colorado Fuckin’ Rockie – 3yrs / $ 31.5 million

    • willieD said, on December 16, 2011 at 6:25 pm

      No idea where they plan to play this guy, but if it’s anywhere near the OF, they better put Fowler on the Usain bolt training program.

  21. zumie said, on December 16, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    In regard to today’s retro-game:
    Bob Horner’s claim to fame is he hit 4 homeruns in one game. Those were the Braves of the early “super-station” years. I didn’t particularly like their team, but it was cool seeing so much more baseball on TV.
    Cable TV had become widely available by 1980. At some point, Don Sutton joined their broadcast team, and did a pretty good job. I wasn’t a Skip Carey fan. Carey’s son does a good job on the Braves broadcasts these days.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 4:13 pm

      I thought Skip was OK. Sort of a competent Monte Moore.

      • zumie said, on December 16, 2011 at 4:19 pm

        I notice that his son has kept Skip’s signature call going. When a hard hit ball has a chance to get throught the infield, he says: “Hot shawwwwwwwwwwt, base hit!” Or the alternate: “Hot shawwwwwwwwwt, caught by ______ ! (whoever.)

      • zumie said, on December 16, 2011 at 4:20 pm

        “through,” I meant.

  22. unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Willingham tio the Twinkies? Musta missed that. 3 yrs/$21 mill.

    • snarkk said, on December 16, 2011 at 4:54 pm

      2012 is, IMO, the likely final year of the great pitching window. So, the Giants can’t afford another $7M per year? They’ll probably sell that in Panda hats and Baby Giraffe stuffed animals…

  23. unca_chuck said, on December 16, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Shades of

  24. DJLoo said, on December 16, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    I’ve been told that there was a time when immigrants to America were expected to learn English and embarrassed if they were slow to do so…

    • Nipper said, on December 17, 2011 at 7:56 am

      Now it’s the other way around. In the city park I use only non English is the rule.

      • Nipper said, on December 17, 2011 at 8:03 am

        Went to Jack -IN-The-Box at 3 AM and I had to use hand signals. The guy inside pointed to an empty cash register and then upstairs despite the flashing open sign in the window. Hey I was hungry!

      • DJLoo said, on December 17, 2011 at 9:47 am

        The whole world’s upside-down, Reppin…

  25. snarkk said, on December 16, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Report from LA — not only is Kobe PO’d from the Lakers trading Lamar Odom, but today Vanessa is divorcing him. And, no pre-nup, none, nada. When Kobe’s driving the lane, no need to guard him, just yell out Vanessa! and he’ll miss the dunk…

    • Nipper said, on December 17, 2011 at 7:57 am

      Good! Down with the Lakers!

  26. twinfan1 said, on December 16, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Just watched maybe the best game of the 2010 postseason- Game 4 of the NLCS. 6-5, featuring Buster’s big night, big double from Panda, Rowand’s throw, Uribe’s walk off SacFly- great stuff.

  27. snarkk said, on December 16, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    BB is Fernanda Mello, a brazilian, 32.

    • Alleykat said, on December 17, 2011 at 9:37 am

      Sure like to have her under my Christmas tree Snarrk!

    • ewisco said, on December 17, 2011 at 10:48 am

      nice work snarkk!! i wouldn’t have guessed 34’s though.

  28. DJLoo said, on December 17, 2011 at 9:18 am

    I wasn’t crazy about the Melky deal but when I look at his numbers last season, I wonder if we might have gotten ourselves a breakout superstar. I haven’t been able to come up with a player who was ever traded coming off his first 200 hit season.

    • stixwiz said, on December 17, 2011 at 9:44 am

      A “breakout superstar” may be overstating the case just a bit. After all, Melky got a lot of those 200 base raps off Twins and Indians pitching. But i would agree with the notion that he may have hit his stride as a solid performer with the stick right at the age level where MLers usually establish themselves. If he hits .285+, steals 20-plus bases and produces from 150 to 180 runs i’d say SF got decent value for Drrrty. At that level of production, a not unrealistic expectation, Melky would make a significant contribution.

  29. stixwiz said, on December 17, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Omar all over again? Mark Polischuk at MLBTR reports that Vizquel would “go right now” if the Giants hit him with a one year offer. Such a move seems counterintuitive at first glance when you consider that the SS magician is well to the shady side of 40. But as a mentor to Crawford as the best defensive SS over the last couple decades and as a light hitter who gradually upped his status with the stick and as a hitter who might do better against tough lefties than Brandon; his offer is not so easily dismissed. The major question here would be how seriously Sabean and Bochy feel that Burriss can contribute. Omar would be getting his spot if the deal were done.

    • DJLoo said, on December 17, 2011 at 9:44 am

      Can Moises Alou be far behind?

    • Alleykat said, on December 17, 2011 at 10:05 am

      Geez Stix….and some flappers were rippin me for suggesting Varitek who would be a baby compared to Omar and Mota.

      Put me down for Omar though,cause im no fan of limp noodle bat Burriss and only if Varitek comes with him to replace Stewart. 2 real great Veteran Captains both Switchhitters comiing off the bench,spot starts, and cheap for year at a mil or so.Make it so Sabean.

  30. twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 10:27 am

    You both need to change your cereal. If you mean MINOR league deals for both, possibly..

  31. zumie said, on December 17, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Omar couldn’t hit anymore at the end there, when he was with the Giants. In fact, the only time I’ve ever had a REAL big disagreement with a Bochy move was when he started Omar all three of those games in Cleveland a few years ago. Omar was hitting like .160 at the time or something. It was clearly just to let Omar have his big return-to-Cleveland moment. Fine, one game would have sufficed. But Omar started all three games, and that was just wrong. It violated the number one rule of managing- give your team the best chance of winning. Yeah, the Giants were already about 10-15 games out by that point in the season, but still….

  32. dirtnrocksnreno said, on December 17, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Latos out of the division to Cincinnati. His arm will burst into flames soon enough with Dusty handling him. Arizona has been quietly adding pieces here and there. dodgers? Not worthy of comment. MLBTR reports that Beltran has a mystery team with $10M per on the table. I hold on to the delusional hope that it is SF and Sabean is employing his usual doublespeak.

    • DJLoo said, on December 17, 2011 at 11:15 am

      Probably the Yanks, dirt. They’ve been too quiet…

    • St said, on December 17, 2011 at 11:22 am

      Or it’s the usual agent ploy to up the ante.

      • St said, on December 17, 2011 at 11:27 am

        Actually, 10m per is cheap.

  33. twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 11:21 am

    With some action from Colorado and AZ lately, maybe Sabean is back in on Beltran. Maybe.

  34. dirtnrocksnreno said, on December 17, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Hadn’t thought of NY, Loo but I suppose they’re always in to some degree.

    Twin, I thought the same. Beltran is running out of locations that will allow him to compete for a ring.

    A guy like Beltran I would hope has made his cash and truly wants a shot at a championship. Looking at SF’s off season adds and pitching staff in place if he was added the lineup really solidifies. Naive I’m sure but just the fan in me I guess.

  35. St said, on December 17, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Any fans of HS football? My neighborhood HS team Campolindo plays today at noon for the State Div 3 title and a 15-0 record. Quite a yr for a team picked to finish last. Catch em on channel 40.

    Last night’s Bellarmine Div 1 game was pretty entertaining.

    • DJLoo said, on December 17, 2011 at 12:08 pm

      Any hot cheerleaders?

  36. St said, on December 17, 2011 at 12:29 pm


  37. raymond said, on December 17, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Eli Whitty-side…why in the hell did the giants thinking sign eli back?? Stewart has the better arm and presence…AND Hector-Camacho Sanchez can hit and will be up by mid-may!!!

  38. Flavor said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Apparently, it IS a major league deal. 600K if he makes the team, $175 if he doesn’t and goes to the minors. The front office’s obsession with this guy defies logic…….

    • Flavor said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:23 pm

      to be clear, I think that Stew will start out as the back up with Hector waiting in the wings down in AAA. But what the fuck point is it to pay Whitey $175K to play in the minors? And won’t that take at bats away from Hector if they’re both in Fresno?

  39. ewisco said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    i think part of whiteside’s woes last year was because he was hurt and he didn’t talk about it. there was a definite fall off from what we had seen in spot starts before, especially in throwing to second. that could be why management thinks more of him then some.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm

      Whiteside has sucked every year he’s been here.

  40. twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    It’s a minor league deal according to every source that I’ve seen except Shea

    • twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:41 pm

      But whatever, I’ve arranged for a soft landing spot if he does make the team.

  41. Flavor said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    The ‘gate is crediting the AP so that’s probably where Shea got his info. Why doesn’t Shea just fucking call up someone in the front office, you’d think he would have a better connection there than the AP…….

  42. twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Haft seems to infer it’s a Major League, so I dunno.

  43. twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    It’s not just a fascination with Whitey, it obviously extends to any back up catcher who can’t hit a lick. As of now, unless Hector forces his way on the team and/or Panda agrees to some work behind the plate, when Buster sits or plays 1B, once again the 7-8-9 spots will all be pitcher’s spots. I’m ready to endorse Varitek, ferchrissakes.

  44. paulinasia said, on December 17, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    It does seem possible that Sabean might have to rethink “we’re done” given the recent additions that Western division teams have made. Other than Harang, though, seems most of those additions have been on offense. Giants would still seem to have the best pitching. But even though initially I wasn’t terribly in favor of Beltran coming back, kind of hard to imagine they wouldn’t be considering keeping a .300 hitter in the fold…

  45. twinfan1 said, on December 17, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    Link to the right , worst baseball memory..

  46. paulinasia said, on December 17, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    I don’t know, maybe I’m misreading “the market”, but after that ridiculous Pujols signing (of course still awaiting the outcome of the Fielder bonanza), did things normalize a bit with Cuddyer and Rollins both getting 3 years for around $10m a year? That would seem ok for Beltran if he’s also in that tier of players. Seemed the Giants thought he would be asking for more than that. Wonder also if Pagan coming over from NY would affect Beltran’s thinking, not sure if they were friends or not but they seemed to have some kind of mentor/mentee thing going on over there.

  47. DJLoo said, on December 17, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Eli was the back-up catcher on a San Francisco Giant World Championship team. No one else can say that.
    There’s no reason a back-up catcher, earning peanuts, should ever be a whipping boy. He also caught Sanchez no-no and have you forgotten the intimidation of Victorino?

    • Flavor said, on December 17, 2011 at 8:41 pm

      `All of that is true and unforgettable. He also had one of the great nicknames on the team (next to Velez and his *Count Chocula*)– “El Presidente” ~~~~ I’m not sure if you made that up Loo, maybe I did. I know that it came from your post that said something like “Eli Whiteside looks like a president from the 1800’s”. Gold, baby……..
      But he was one of the worst back up catchers in the league. An upgrade was necessary. It still hasn’t happened and I’m worried that we are going to be stuck with the same slop we had backing up Posey last year.

      • DJLoo said, on December 17, 2011 at 8:57 pm

        Definitely a super nickname…

      • Nipper said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:34 am

        Sweating the backup catcher……really BF that’s what they do on the BEAT!

    • Nipper said, on December 18, 2011 at 6:25 am

      I’ll gladly grab some of his peanuts! It beats living down by the creek. Of course the cold canned beans are a delight! Yummy!

  48. Flavor said, on December 17, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Whitey has also made a little over $1,000,000 in his last 2.5 seasons in the big leagues and now he’s going to get paid another $175K to hang out with AAA players. Not too shabby. I hope he thanks God nightly for the lotto ticket Sabean turned his life into. This guy would likely have never seen a major league game if he was in any other organization.

    • Nipper said, on December 18, 2011 at 6:23 am

      With Whitey in the lineup they need a DH. HA!

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