A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Fascination with Tim Tebow

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 18, 2011

The Tebow Phenomenon is interesting to watch each week. Rarely has one player inspired so much debate and interest. I think it’s great for the sport to have so much discussion, however misguided, about one man. I’m not as interested in the actual discussions as I am in WHY Tebow has become such a talked about topic.

Is he a good quarterback? That’s a terribly simplistic question to ask. I suppose you could look at his passer rating. He’s ranked 14th in the league in the traditional passer rating at 83.9. ESPN has a new passer rating this year that’s attempting to compete with the established rating. Personally, I think it’s a gimmick. It’s designed for simple people since 158.3 is a cloogy-looking number. ESPN just goes with a 0-100 scoring system. They factor in more stats to their formula than the traditional rating but the truth is, neither number tells the whole story about the performance of a quarterback. But comparing the two stats is a different discussion for another time. ESPN says that Tebow’s QB performance in the first 3 quarters is a 15. That’s horrendous. In the 4th quarter it’s 94. That’s outstanding.

And that differential is one reason why Tebow is such fodder for blogs and talk shows. How can you play the same position and yet perform between a 15 and a 94 in the same game? Is he horrible or is he outstanding? He doesn’t ever seem to play in between.

Most discussions about him get heated because religious people like to start yapping about his/their faith and that his performance is somehow guided by God. I think that’s funny. What’s God busy doing in the first 3 quarters? Is he stuck in traffic? Cause he sure ain’t helping Tebow out. Any time you get religious nuts entering the discussion by explaining answers with “God stepped in and did  *X*” you are going to see things get heated since most sane people understand how idiotic that sounds.

The reason that Tebow is getting so discussed this year is because of two things: 1) frequency and 2) intensity. The sheer number of *football experts* who went out of their way at the beginning of  the year to declare what an awful QB Tebow is have been spending the last 6-8 weeks trying to explain how it is that such an awful QB is able to win so consistently in the NFL week after week. But the experts were so brutal with their criticism of him and they repeated it with such frequency, that you now have a whole bunch of guys who have to try to explain what’s going on here. Otherwise, they look like idiots. But so far, I haven’t heard a credible explanation from any of them that explains how they could have been so wrong–or even if they are wrong at all…

And that’s the reason that Tebow is such an interesting topic. There is nothing that can explain this. Most people like the world to make sense. They like to be able to point to A or B as a reason that C exists. And in Tebow’s case there just isn’t an explanation except that laughable one about *God taking over in the 4th quarter*.

What most people are missing is that Tebow isn’t winning games any more than Alex Smith is winning games. Teams win and lose games. Quarterbacks don’t win or lose games all by themselves. Last week, in the 4th quarter, supposedly *Tebow Time* it was 3rd and 10 with about a minute to go. Tebow drops back, scurries around, ultimately throwing an incomplete pass at the referee. On 4th down, he rambled around, finally running out of bounds gaining no yards. The Denver kicker came in and kicked a 59 yard field goal. So I don’t want to hear about how brilliant Tebow is. He’s just a man. If anyone deserves credit for all these Bronco wins it’s their defense. They’re outstanding……

Tebow has one thing that separates him from normal qb’s and it’s the same thing that Joe Montana had: he’s the coolest, calmest cat on the field at the most critical time of the game. That contributes to his ability to execute plays. You could argue that it’s because of his faith that he’s able to be so calm and collected and that’s actually something that makes perfect sense…..

And I will be watching the Bronco game today because, just like everyone else, I’m fascinated with this story. To me, it’s the same reason I watch Yankee games. I don’t root for or against them, I’m intrigued by the drama that unfolds after the games end. And the outcome of today’s game will absolutely fuel more Tebow debates on blogs and sports talk shows everywhere. If the Pats destroy the Bronco’s and Tebow checks in with his usual 15 passer rating (for the 1st 3 quarters) everyone will say “See! I’m right! Tebow sucks!”. But if the team pulls out another late win (notice I said *team*)  we get to listen to another week of everyone back-tracking and reaching for answers to explain not just how Tebow could be doing this but how they could have been so wrong with their original criticism of the man.

I hope the Bronco’s pull out a win today. To me, I’d rather see the experts stammer and stutter their way through another week of *explaining* than see them nodding their collective head with an annoying  “I told you so.” –that’s worse than having to listen to the Christians tell us it’s because God swooped down dramatically from above and magically guided the Bronco’s to a win……..

Anyway, Retro Time………


Let’s steamroll to the end of 1980. It’s September 30th and the Dodgers beat us 6-3. Minton and Lavelle combined to butcher the 9th and 10th innings. A young Fernando Valenzuela pitched 2 scoreless (4’s) for the win in relief. Someone named Tom Griffin was our starting pitcher. He combined for 29 starts over a 3 year period and yet I still have no recollection of him…….

66 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. willieD said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Interesting to see what happens to loud mouth Latos in bandbox Cincy, and all the warm weather hitters parks in that division. Let’s see him put up him numbers there like he did in Petco. Funny, but didn’t Harang win a shit load of games for the Reds couple years ago? I wouldn’t be surprised if he did passably well for LA–nothing spectacular, but he knows what he’s doing. I think both reds and pads will miss this guy.
    I don’t watch enough football these days to have an opinion on Tebow, but he really embarrassed the Raiders here in Oaktown. If Broncos wind up winning the division and Hue goes home empty, I’d point to that game as pivotal.
    Sometimes too, your best players are the shits for a while before they get it together. Football can be such a last team with the ball event, and the guys like Unitas and Montana that get it done when they have to make you forget all the stuff that happened before that. Winners, they are.

  2. James said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:14 am

    I no longer follow football closely, and have little sense of whether or not stats have changed to better reflect performance. Your theory that he’s Bobby Douglass with a defense doesn’t quite hold — the Broncos are 22nd in points allowed. They do lead the NFL in rushing yards, yet have the 21st ranked offense. They look like one of those outlier baseball teams that put up a record that doesn’t align with a negative scoring differential. Last year, the Jaguars were 8-8 despite being outscored by 66 points.

    I’d also be amused by his superstitious fans, if it weren’t for the fact that they have the right to vote.

  3. Flavor said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:20 am

    yes, calling their defense “outstanding” was overstating how good they are. They have been very good during the last 8 games of which they’ve won 7. For Tebow to be able to do anything in the 4th Q though, the D has to be doing their part and, for the most part, they have been. Over their last 5 games they’ve allowed 13 pts or less in 4 of them. Not bad…….

  4. twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:28 am

    When push comes to shove, I still think Elway will think of a way to dump him. A good scenario might be Luck to the Colts, Manning to Denver, Teblow to Jacksonville. This year is just the Pet Rock year, Teblow is not an NFL QB.

  5. Flavor said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Interesting take from Collingsworth: “I think the first three quarters are about skill and talent and the raw ability of these incredible athletes in the NFL. And the fourth quarter — when you are dead on your feet, you’re exhausted, you’re out there just fighting for whatever you have and it turns into a fistfight for that last quarter to see who is going to get the thumbs up or the thumbs down on the day — and that’s when Tim Tebow is at his best.”

    • twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:56 am

      That still doesn’t come close to explaining the total suckitude for the first 3 quarters plus of almost all his games. And 7 or 8 games hardly constitiutes enough of a body of work to be proclaiming the guy a winner.

      • Flavor said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:42 am

        the way I read it, he’s saying that other players are more talented with more ability but when the 4th Q comes Tebow reaches down for another gear or something and he ends up beating them that way–kinda like the horses that kill each other off in a speed dual only to get passed late by the closer.
        And I do think that his demeanor in the 4th quarter— that *Joe Coolness* is helping him succeed late in games…….

      • twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 11:22 am

        I know what he was saying. Let’s see what he says when this crashes to earth. As long as dumb ass defensive coordinators let off him the hook like Chicago did, he’ll have some success. They totally shut him down with their zone defense then went to man defense in the last minutes. Put simply- teams will figure it out.

    • James said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:08 am

      Thumbs up, thumbs down, very biblical. How do you crucify a pet rock?

      • James said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:25 am

        West Anstey - Medieval Crucifix

  6. BoulderTom said, on December 18, 2011 at 11:51 am

    James, bravo…bravo!

  7. St said, on December 18, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Reds did give up a lot for Latos. Safe to say it would be somewhat like the Giants giving them Belt, Hector, Dirrty and Hembree?

  8. Alleykat said, on December 18, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    For weeks we have heard so called experts rip Tim Tebow.
    You know the usual suspects like Merrill Hoge, who people convenietly forget was at best an average NFL RB.Guys like Chris Carter, a typical, mouthy WR who drank his way out of Philly and never won anything in his other stops, continues to take pot shots at Tebow on a weekly basis.
    We also hear the game analysts talk about how he doesnt “look like an NFL QB”.
    So what does an NFL QB look like? You mean the guy who as thrown

  9. St said, on December 18, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    I was going to say I thought Bellychic would come up with a clever defense to completely stifle Tebow, but I see NE is last in Pass Defense. Looks like an intriguing match up.

  10. Alleykat said, on December 18, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Shit I hit the post before I finished.
    So what does an NFL QB look like?,The guy whp has thrown only 2 picks in 198 Attemps doesnt look like an NFL QB? Or the guy who is 7-1 as a starter doesnt look like an NFL QB.
    So let me try to understand this….a guy who is playing football and not turnng the ball over isnt an NFL QB, but a reformed “dogkiller” who is constantly injured and turnover machine when he isnt looks like an NFL QB.

  11. twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 12:57 pm


    • James said, on December 18, 2011 at 1:16 pm

      Let’s pray the career ending injury hits before his lucky streak is over. His destiny will be fulfilled and mythology complete.

  12. Del Mar Dennis said, on December 18, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    I think a lot of people, casual fans included, are jealous of Tebow and the peace and serenity that he exudes. Football skills, or lack thereof aside, I think people see Tebow as “The Happy Wanderer,” to quote Tony Soprano (episode 19). Tony tells Dr. Melfi that he feels victimized. While others, like Tebow, “walk around without a care in the world.” Isn’t that what we all strive for? Not a care in the world.

    Bottom line: Tim Tebow’s faith has made him a happy man.
    I know I and many others wish we could say the same.

    God Bless.

    • James said, on December 18, 2011 at 2:03 pm

      Hey, you gotta serve somebody. Myths are just part of being human. I could give a shit about his inner life.

  13. Del Mar Dennis said, on December 18, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    And as I speak, TD Tebow!

    He doesn’t need my blessing.

  14. twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    That spiel is hilarious coming from Death Threat.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on December 18, 2011 at 1:52 pm

      I’m happy to have made you chuckle on this beautiful Sunday afternoon.
      Enjoy the rest of your day. I’m trying. I know one guy who will — Tebow.

  15. twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    And Orton shreds Green Bay. Strange days..

  16. Del Mar Dennis said, on December 18, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    side note: this NFL “horse collar” foul is HORSESHIT. You can yank the back of a player’s (long) hair, but you can’t grab the back of his jersey. If that asinine rule was in effect back when Eric Wright collared Drew Pearson in the ’81 Championship Game, I never woulda seen Pontiac.

  17. zumie said, on December 18, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    New England is bringing some football reality to Denver.

  18. twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    No shame in losing to NE, but they aren’t winning a game like this one throwing 22 times. That’s on Fox.

  19. unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    To me, and maybe I’m wrong (really?), Tebow is a self-hyping, self-serving athlete. Nothing more, nothing less. I mean, how many players bought super bowl ads? One. And he hadn’t played a down in the NFL. The ad was to nominally tout his Christianity, and to proselytize against abortion. At least that was the talk before the ad was aired. Which was the intent. Generate buzz, put forth the agenda behind the scenes, and sit back to watch the clamor that it causes. He’s all disingenuous about it, but it’s all too smarmy and cutesy for my taste. Something Twin said a while ago struck a chord. His talk is all “my teammates” “my guys” “them”. It’s never by name. All this shows is that he thinks it all revolves around him.

    He’s had a good run against some shitty to decent teams. Nothing more, nothing less. Buy the hype as you will, but the guy is Randall Cunningham. He can make some great plays, or he can suck on ice.

    • unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:03 pm

      Well, that’s actually too much credit for Tebow. He’s got a LOOOOOOONG way to go to reach Cunningham status.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:26 pm

      Chuck, you ARE wrong. Tebow is neither a self-hyping nor a self-serving athlete. Did Tebow make a bad choice with those ads earlier in his career? Yes, but I blame that on innocence and bad info and influence from his agents. But bottom line, you’re right about those early ads. He made a mistake. Misguided as it was, that’s on him.

      But, please, Tebow proselytizing as an NFL quarterback? Not today. Chuck, you attended parochial (Catholic) schools such as I. You know the deal. We’re not even talking football any more. Leave Tebow be. He’s bettering the cause.

      I betcha 2/1 you and I couldn’t say the same. Santa couldn’t even help us. Leave Tebow be…

      • unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 6:16 pm

        Dennis, you know NOTHING about Tebow. His ads were the most self-serving load of shit in the history of football. Going by what I’ve seen and heard, he’s getting a ton more hype and face-time than is warranted. Based on nothing but hype and bullshit and his faith.

        Being raised a Catholic lets me see thru the hypocrites pretty easily. He may be a gentle spiritual soul and all that but most outspoken people do it for other reasons. Like NFL contracts, face-time, and ad money.

        Color me cynical.

  20. DJLoo said, on December 18, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Obviously, my Kansas City Chiefs are the best team in football…

  21. unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Jeckyll/Hyde, baby. They are all over the place.

  22. unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Rich Murray, Guy Sularz, Joe Pettini. Ouch and a half.

    • DJLoo said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:07 pm

      Murray, Pettini and Guy – Oh My!

      • Alleykat said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:32 pm

        Jack Perconte?Really? Can you pass the picante salsa please.

  23. twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    I absolutely love that it was Orton who beat the Pack.

  24. Del Mar Dennis said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Here’s my final (maybe) thought on Tim Tebow: he’s going to die with a clear conscience.

    How many of you, self included, can say the same?

    Time’s up!

    • unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 6:18 pm

      How do you know? He’s a little too self-aggrandizing for my taste. He may have sold his soul to the Devil for his success for all you know.

  25. twinfan1 said, on December 18, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    He’s going straight to hell, where all charlatons go.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on December 18, 2011 at 6:30 pm

      I just watched (for the umpteenth time) the Wizard of Oz last night. Professor Marvel, Frank Morgan, he was a charlatan. Tim Tebow is no charlatan. No. No. No. Laugh the day away (with Tim Tebow), in the merry old land of Oz…

      • DJLoo said, on December 18, 2011 at 7:27 pm

        Unfortunately, the film contains a grossly inaccurate depiction of life in Munchkinland. Fuckin’ Hollywood…

  26. willieD said, on December 18, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    “If there’s a hell below/
    we all gonna go.”
    As my fav history teacher at DeAnza college told some girl in the class,
    “I’ll show you around.”

  27. unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Since dogs aren’t allowed in Heaven, I don’t want to go.

    As Bon Scott so prophetically wrote, Hell ain’t a bad place to be . . . .

  28. Flavor said, on December 18, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    I hated to take down San Diggity Dawg’s POTD, but any *Bon Scott* reference has a B-line pass to POTD status and likely a status even beyond that…….

  29. Flavor said, on December 18, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Tebow did his usual shit today—ran a lot combined with limited passing ability. But against a decent team it wasn’t enough and it never will be. No surprise there.
    Denny, all your “he’s happy at the end of the day/wish we all could be like that” rabble is utter bullshit. You’re the angriest most negative stubborn person I’ve ever come across in the blog-world and that is fucking saying something. You have no fucking idea who Tebow is or what makes him happy. For all you know he just paid a black gay male hooker $30 for a blow job in some back alley in Denver. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT TIM TEBOW. You’re so fucking hypocritical, you call out every single mildly poor pass from the QB of the team you’re supposed to like and ignore anything he does well on the football field. Then Tebow comes along and he can do no wrong? What do you say when he throws shit pass after shit pass? What do you say when he fiddles around in the pocket and takes off running because he can’t figure out what to do IN the pocket, even with open receivers? Look, that’s fine if you’re blinded by religion and you just support anyone who is religious like a brain dead lemming off a cliff–I’ve come to expect that from people of ALL religions. But don’t sit here and then tell us you “watch more football that all of us combined” and expect anyone to respect a single word of your analysis about Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Tony Promo or any other football player out there when all it takes is someone to believe in God for you to kneel and bow down to them……

  30. SanDawg said, on December 18, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    It’s an honor going down to a Bon Scott reference. I can remember where I was at Woodland High when Chuck Page told me Reagan had been shot (in the library) and I remember where I was when David Warwick told me Bon Scott had died (in the locker room dressing out for 3rd period PE).
    A good friend from San Jo used to rave about a AC/DC tribute band called “Long Gone Bon” that did the rounds down there.

    “She had the face of an angel smiling with sin, her body a Venus with arms”

    • Big flavor said, on December 18, 2011 at 8:11 pm

      Dude, I too remember exactly where I was when I heard Bon Scott died– listening to a Kiss album in my buddy’s backyard across the street.
      I will say, Brian Johnson did an epic job filling in, no one could replace that voice the way he did.

  31. ewisco said, on December 18, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    somewhere in the late 80’s early 90’s, my 15 year old cousin came to visit. I was living alone in SJ. He was very rebellious, with the whole goth thing going blah, blah, blah. he had his walkman and i asked what he was listening to. He very proudly stated that he was listening to AC/DC Back in Black and NOBODY was listening to that! Back then, I had Voice of the Theater concert speakers in my living room. I very proudly but BiB on the turntable, then Humble Pie (I don’t need no doctor) and some Van Halen etc. We ROCKED that living room, playing our tennis rackets (lord knows where those come from). After that, he thought i might be acceptable. We had a splendid visit.

    • Flavor said, on December 18, 2011 at 8:42 pm

      great post. I, like you, San Dawg and others, can mark my lifetime timeline by the music I listened to. For instance, one of my clearest memories is throwing the sickest screwball in the history of whiffle ball in Luke Cannon’s backyard in the Summer of ’86. How do I recall this? “Shoot to Thrill” was blaring loudly from a nearby stereo……..

      • DJLoo said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:10 pm

        “Luke Cannon” sounds like some comic book hero. The coolest friend name I can remember from childhood was a punchball god named Rigoberto Popa. Straight overhand style. Gives me goosebumps 45 years later.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:07 pm

      Not to pick nits, but if Back in Black is your frame of reference for AC/DC, you missed the best part . . .

  32. DJLoo said, on December 18, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    As I was being driven to my wedding, my friend turned on the car radio.
    First song: “Another One Bites The Dust” (Queen)

    • Nipper said, on December 18, 2011 at 9:11 pm

      I bet Loo sleeps with a loaded gun under his pillow.

    • willieD said, on December 19, 2011 at 6:47 am

      Yeah. There’s a big catholic church and school right behind where I work, weddings all the time during summer. I use that line whenever I see them.

  33. unca_chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    Shit, I remember being in 4th grade and hearing School’s Out for the first time one fine June day in 1973 and I thought, that is the greatest song ever written hands down all-time best ever . . . .

  34. James said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    While the Clash, Sex Pistols, Television, Big Star etc. were on the turntable circa 77, I didn’t banish Bon and Co from the record collection, maybe because of the Vanda and Young heritage. “Let There Be Rock” is where it ended for me. They may not have been Lynryd Skynrd, but they sure beat the hell out of Molly Hatchet.

    • unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:57 pm

      More Songs About Buildings and Food. Not too many of my friends were listening to that. Powerage? Sure. Bebop Deluxe? Yup . . .

      • James said, on December 18, 2011 at 11:04 pm

        Still have my copies of “Axe Victim” (import only!) and Bill Nelson’s solo album, “Northern Dream,” DIY before its time.

      • zumie said, on December 18, 2011 at 11:10 pm

        Yeah, “More Songs…” is a great Talking Heads album. I just really dig the punk and new wave stuff. That music was more exciting and interesting to me than what was playing on mainstream rock radio. The Clash’s “London Calling” and Elvis Costello’s “Armed Forces” were two albums that really got me going on that kind of music. Also, Joe Jackson’s “Look Sharp,” which is an awesome record.

      • unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 11:25 pm

        Fear of Music was sooo out there. That was really killer stuff. The early Clash as well . . .

        Yeah Elvis Costello has one of my all time favorite lines in rock and roll . . .

        “She’s filing her nails while they’re dragging the lake . . .”

  35. zumie said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Warren Hellman passed away today. Terribly sad news. I’m so glad I saw him perform with the Wronglers at Hardly Strictly this year. It’s just a shock to hear he passed away.

    • James said, on December 18, 2011 at 10:50 pm

      Missed a chance to see The Wronglers performing w/ JDG this past summer at Chicago’s equivalent of the Freight and Salvage, opting instead for Robbie Fulks at his regular Monday night gig. One Hardly Strictly was enough for me. Bands like The Old 97s were swallowed up by the expanse, and there were just way too many people. But sad news indeed.

      • zumie said, on December 18, 2011 at 11:03 pm

        I didn’t mind the crowds. I’ve been to every Hardly Strictly. It’s been interesting to see the festival evolve over the years, from how it started.

      • unca chuck said, on December 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm

        No Trains to Heaven, baby!!!! Shit, it’s crazy how much of my youth i associate with music. Axe victim is still one of the best album covers . . .

        Last one I saw was the Grass Valley Bluegrass festival in like 1987. There was a rumor that Jerry and David Grisman were going to show up.

  36. Nipper said, on December 19, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Tebow……what a guy!

  37. twinfan1 said, on December 19, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Well, I guess God didn’t swoop in, He must have been busy in Oakland yesterday…

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: