A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Slow Off Season Stays Slow

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 22, 2011

Dark morning. Haiku morning. Maybe later……

It’s tweets like these that keep this blog quiet:

“The Giants aren’t looking for a free agent to replace Jonathan Sanchez, but are interested in adding pitchers who are willing to accept minor league contracts, tweetsHenry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle.”

Lost amidst the “Melky Hysteria” is the slowly developing but definitely growing “Zito Perturbation”. If we were living in Indonesia, it’d be like if the Tsunami Sirens have gone off. You don’t know why you’re running but you’re running. Fast. Cause it’s coming.

I loved the bloggers (last year) who would tell me, “Aw, you’re being to hard on Zito! He’s a great #5! You’d see that if you weren’t blinded by the money he makes! Forget the contract! Idiot!”. Then he checked in with a 5.87 ERA for the year. The Giants tried to hide him twice on the DL and I actually thought that was a reasonable plan given their options with him. But now he’s back. He is the #5 until the tsunami finally hits the shore.

I’ve refrained from looking at the available free agent pitcher list for the upcoming season. It must be frightening.

“Well-rrendous”. “Supp-marish”…..

And waiting for the cast offs from Spring Training doesn’t seem like a prudent thing to do– with almost every other team lean on pitching I can’t imagine too many rejects that aren’t at least as bad as Zito hitting the waiving wire.

Of course there’s always Eric Surkamp if a horrendous bb/SO ratio strikes your fancy…..

And we haven’t even gotten to the worry warts who predict misery and failure for Ryan Vogelsong (not me, I think he’ll have a fine year)….

But the Zito Implosion is coming. Some would argue it’s already happening, just on another level undetectable by the human ear or eye. And when it does hit, I am not seeing anything that can fill the vast void left in it’s wake.

4 man rotation anyone????????








It’s Sunday, APril 25th, 1982. The Dodgers are throwing the Rookie of the Year at us and we are countering with Rich Gale. I actually always liked Gale, can’t remember why. He only pitched for us one year and he wasn’t very good. He was a big son of a be-atch though, and today that would be enough as we took the Doidgers 6-3 behind a monster 8th inning (5 runs scored) powered by a Hacman grand salami. I have nary a clue who Jose Barrios is or how he made the starting line up. “Enrico Palazzo”, anyone?

Barrios was drafted in ’75 (amateur draft) and didn’t make it to the big club until April 23rd, 1982. Today he got a start and did nothing. His last game in the big leagues would be a couple of weeks later on May 7th. Sometimes, you only get one shot up here………

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  1. willieD said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:26 am

    What was worse than the bloggers who kept saying what a great guy Zito was for sticking around during the Series he wasn’t actually a part of, was listening to K and K defend the guy all year. I’m sure when he finally leaves he’ll be another one of Kruk’s “good Giants.” Uh, no Gorilla.
    Dodgers of 82 with the infield of evil, plus Pedro G, who killed us, Monday Scioscia and Ken Landreaux, who as I remember had a monster hitting streak for them at one time.
    Yesterday retro Pads had Sixto Lezcano, who later became a key member of Harvey’s wallbangers for the Brewers team that got to the Series, then of the AL.

  2. stixwiz said, on December 22, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Flav: Yer coming down a bit hard on Surkamp, not that he didn’t have a bad BB-K ratio in his brief stint. Take a little jaunt into his Minor League stats for last season. There, it appeared that excellent control was a forte, not a disclaimer clause. Personally, my feeling is that he just wasn’t ready for The Show yet. He found himself in jams, facing ML hitters and started to get picky, picky and not trusting his stuff. Perhaps he needs to develop an out pitch in AAA this Spring and early Summer. He does not have a killer FB, so some feel he is not a prospect. So he has to develop his deception and guile. It could be that Surkamp will later be to the rotation something similar to what Hector Sanchez may become for the catching corps.

    As for Zito…nuff said. No use beating on a dead horse.

    • Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 9:23 am

      Stix— I know what his minor lg stats are and it’s possible he just wasn’t ready. But he did start 6 games so it’s not like he had a cup of coffee and then got bounced down. And while the BB/SO ratio was horrendous (17 BB’s, 13 k’s in 26.2 innings) the thing that bummed me out about him was 1) I didn’t see any stud pitch that would separate him from the pack of normal minor leaguers and 2) He didn’t have much control. I’m not just talking about the walks, his ball seemed to go all over the place. If you’ve got no velocity and no stud-pitch (like a wicked change up) then you better have pin point control. I saw none of that in his short time up here. We’ll see. I’m happy to be wrong about him, I WANT to be wrong about him……..

  3. Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 8:50 am

    Zito is finished! Sabean will be ruthless! Of course we all may be wrong but Sabean gets rid of unproductive guys no matter what. History shows this.

  4. twinfan1 said, on December 22, 2011 at 10:02 am

    I haven’t seen anyone predict misery and failure for Vogelsong, just number 4 starter type numbers.
    Here’s a pretty fair scouting report on Surkamp:

    • Big flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 10:57 am

      Thanks. Of course, I’ve read all these. Surkamp didn’t pass my eyeball test. His stuff was underwhelming, visually. He got minor leaguers out like a lot of minor league pitchers do. We’ll see, I guess….

      • twinfan1 said, on December 22, 2011 at 12:48 pm

        Well, not a lot of minor league pitchers had his minor league numbers. But like with everything else, as you say, we’ll see..

  5. SanDawg said, on December 22, 2011 at 10:59 am

    I almost forgot Chili played CF and led off for us quite a few times. Kinda hard to picture when you think of the burly DH he would later become. I was not a big Rich Gale fan, but love the fact he took down Fernando and the Doggers on this retro day.
    Yes, Zito holding down the #5 spot is a scary thought. How many years left on his god-awful deal? 2?

    Flav–you mention the PB area of San Diego occasionally so you may be aware of Mission Bay Golf Course located in the northern edge of PB. It is a short, city course that is lighted and has a strict no-alcohol policy that stems from the days of old when beach hooligans would get in fights and cause all sorts of mayhem out there. I played there with some friends last night and as we got off the course, a group was coming on that included Charley Hoffman and Chris Riley–two SD locals who play on the PGA tour. We chatted them up a little bit and they were just out with some local friends having a good time before heading out on the town. I thought is was pretty cool that these tour guys would show up at a little crap course like that and swing it while home for the holidays.

    • Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 11:32 am

      How the hell did you recognize those guys?

  6. ewisco said, on December 22, 2011 at 11:06 am

    I had a buddy who lived in PB back in the 80’s. we’d hit that track every now and then. i think he was in a league there. he used to kick my ass pretty regularly. weird hitting in the lights though.

  7. SanDawg said, on December 22, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Yeah, the nighttime golf is a trip. In the summer it is pretty fun at night and you’re likely to see some nice looking ladies out there as well. I never got in a fight out there (I’m a lover, not a fighter), but I did play in a group once that carried around a big thermos full of bloody mary’s that we passed amongst us and we got into some brouhaha with the group behind us. No punches were thrown, but angry words were exchanged, golf balls were hit back at them etc… “pretty standard stuff actually” (Dr. Evil voice)

    • Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 11:34 am

      I love that a golf brou-haha includes hitting golf balls back in the direction of the guys you are *brewing* with. More than once I have been in a group that’s been *hit into*. I’ve calmly addressed their ball and sent it 200-250 in a perpendicular direction. Don’t hit into me again, you fuck. Good times……

  8. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 22, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    I’m surprised there was very little or no comment here regarding the recent Chron story on Freddy Sanchez’s progress and his upbeat take on it. Maybe y’all were too busy talking football. Many of you know my history on Freddy: was right outside AT&T Park when the trade was announced, heard it from a subaltern on the Giants staff, and hated the deal. Hated it for a while UNTIL Freddy’s play in the stretch and the postseason in 2010. Game 1 of the World Series: double, double, double. Take that, world. And I thrilled to his fielding clinic and hyperkinetic excitement in Game 5, the clincher. Franchez could make a huge difference next year. I’m rooting for him. We’re counting on him. The Giants must be, too: he does the intro on the e-greeting the team just sent me. Go, Freddy!

    • snarkk said, on December 22, 2011 at 1:01 pm

      Giants definitely need Franchez to be on his game, and staying healthy. People here have ripped him essentially for being hurt, which is a crock for him, and any other player that’s really hurt. This shoulder deal is heavy duty, there’s no guarantee he’s going to come back 100%. I think he won’t be as good D-wise, he won’t be diving for balls as much out of fear of re-injury, and his arm may not regain the former throwing strength. I’ll take him at 90% of before, that would still be a big plus. I shudder at the thought of him getting re-injured, since the current replacements would be Runt and Burriss, and that ain’t cool…

  9. big flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Counting on sanchez to stay healthy is like banking on the lotto to make you rich.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 22, 2011 at 12:57 pm


      • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 3:20 pm

        What kind of keyboard do you have?

  10. twinfan1 said, on December 22, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    I was down on Fruckie due to his reluctance to “report for duty” in 2010. If you recall, Bochy had to finally give him a deadline. But he ended up far exceeding my expectations. I’ll admit to once again having low expectations. I suspect we see a lot more of Burriss and Fontenot than we’d like..

    • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 3:23 pm

      “Low expectations” ……I read a book in high school about someone left at the altar.

  11. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 22, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Well, then, in Martin Lutheran fashion (“sin boldly…”), I will go out on a limb, or ledge, and flat out and boldly predict this of Freddy:

    127 games, .292BA, 14 HRs, 24 doubles, 3 triples, 64 RBIs

  12. ewisco said, on December 22, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    DeRosa signs with Nats. film at 11.

  13. SanDawg said, on December 22, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    I’d take Pawlie’s numbers from Freddy in a second. Hoomers sound a little high to me, but I can see him hitting those other numbers.

    Flav–the guy I was with is a golf nut, so he recognized those guys. Although Hoffman is kind of hard to miss as he has long blonde hair. He’s the guy who is sponsored by Waste Management, which is pretty funny.

  14. snarkk said, on December 22, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    A’s reportedly trade Gio Gonzales to Nats for a bunch of bodies, including some good young pitchers. What the A’s are doing borders on criminal, not that I’m an A’s fan. The Budster needs to settle this thing. Either the A’s go to SJose, or they get purchased, and go somewhere else. Staying in Oakland is not an option….

    • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 3:20 pm

      Snarkk is so pessimistic!

      • snarkk said, on December 22, 2011 at 3:37 pm

        In most cases and for most purposes, I’d say staying in Oakland is pessimistic. And, I lived there in the late ’80s and early ’90s…

  15. snarkk said, on December 22, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Here is a link to a bunch of interesting MLB documents.
    Here is the MLB Constitution and By Laws. Just FYI.

    Click to access MLConsititutionJune2005Update.pdf

    Note the team territories pages 14-16, and that the Angels and Dodgers share the exact same territory definition. If MLB decided Oakland can move to SJose, I would assume the territories for SF and the A’s would merge — just add Alameda and CC counties to the current Giant territory definition, and you’d have the territory to be shared by both…

    • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 3:42 pm

      Snarkk wants to share! It’s the season to be sharing!

  16. DJLoo said, on December 22, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    If I set the over/under on the number of wins Zito gets as a Giant in 2012 at 9.5, which way would you go if you had to make a huge bet?

    • Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:24 pm

      absolutely under. In fact, that bet should be 3/5 with the over at 7/5

  17. Alleykat said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:20 pm


  18. unca_chuck said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Too funny, April 25th, 1982 was my 21st birthday Wasn’t at the game. Smart guy that I am, I headed up to Chico for Pioneer Week. Back when it WAS Pioneer week. A good friend of mine celebrated his 21st birthday April 24th 1982, and he ran a drinking club up there, so it was an immense party. Needless to say, it was a lost weekend and a half . . .

    • shaman_138 said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:09 pm

      You’re a Taurus? That would explain all of your bleeping.

  19. Smokey G said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    This one ought to make everyone’s day.

    Giants are talking minor league deal with Boof Bonzer.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:40 pm

      well, who couldn’t like him just for the name?

      • Smokey G said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:49 pm

        C’mon out and see Boof and Buster.

  20. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    A’s get Brad Peacock, who looked terrific in Syracuse Triple A.

  21. DJLoo said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    When healthy, Zito’s won 11-10-10-9 as a Giant…

  22. DJLoo said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    I’m hearing Fielder to the Mariners rumors…

  23. Smokey G said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    I’m seeing Beltran to St Lou. Just 2 yrs. Will they contend without Al?

    • Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:58 pm

      I think that pitching staff caught lightning in a bottle and I don’t see them contending next year without Pujols (even if they add Beltran)……..

  24. Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Pawlie–Peacock may have indeed looked good to you but the talk shows are blowing up right now–A’s fans are DONE with all this re-building……..
    Loo–Did you happen to catch the number of games Zito LOST in those *healthy* seasons. Besides, those were back in the Correia/MIsch/Palmer days—our starting 5 have come a long way since then. ZIto’s gonna have to bring more than he did in the *healthy* years or he can suck it on the DF’A list……

  25. Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Beltran signs a 2 year deal with the Cards–not sure about the dough yet, but it’s more than a little disappointing that we couldn’t even offer him a 2 year deal……..

    • snarkk said, on December 22, 2011 at 5:05 pm

      If St. Louis gets him on a 2 year, then Giants fans have a right to POd. You give up Wheeler for a Beltran rental, then don’t even try to re-sign him, and that’s essentially what Sabean said. I don’t even like Beltran, but I would have certainly entertained him for a 2 + 1 year type deal, given the state of the Giants offense….

    • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:16 pm

      Who wants to hit in cold SF?

  26. Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Boof has always been horrendous and unless they attached a completely brand new arm on him during TJ surgery the most we will ever be able to expect is some AAA filler innings…….

  27. paulinasia said, on December 22, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Beltran: when I saw Rollins and I think Cuddyer get 3-year deals, which was less time than I thought Beltran was looking for, I figured that trend might inspire SF to offer him 2 or 3 years. Maybe they did, who knows, but it does seem Sabes is sticking to his “we’re done”, which I have hoped isn’t actually true.

    Boof: back a bunch of years, I remember giddily envisioning a young stellar rotation of Bonser, Williams, Foppert, and Ainsworth for years to come…

    Zito: during my occasional meditations, I have replaced chanting “nam myoho renge kyo, nam myoho renge kyo” with “Zito will not be the #5, Zito will not be the #5″….

  28. twinfan1 said, on December 22, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Well, you sure didn’t hear anyone bitching about the Bonser/Pierzynski trade..

  29. DJLoo said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    I’m amazed Beltran didn’t wind up in the AL…

    This article’s a day old, but still worth a look. We need help.


  30. Alleykat said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Beltran got 25 mil for 2 years Fuckin cheapskate Giants.You give Huff 22 mil last year and won.t fork over 3 mil more for a proven hitter,run producer.

    • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:17 pm

      Beltran didn’t want to play here.

  31. snarkk said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    I don’t get the Beltran situation.
    The issue was always number of years, right? So, he takes a 2 year deal. This is a time frame contract that Sabean was saying he wanted. Giants again are rolling the dice with an all pitching, low hitting year (with Franchez and Buster and hope a major part of the calculus). I heard Shooty Babbit ( a Mets scout for the last half dozen years) say on radio that Pagan does not like hitting leadoff. Great….

  32. DJLoo said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    I didn’t think Beltran would get that much $…

    • Flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:39 pm

      13 mil a year was always going to be about the #. but the fact that he only got 2 years surprised me a little. I thought AT LEAST 3 and that maybe some team would be dumb enough to go 5.
      It’s flat wrong that we didn’t get him on a 2 year deal. Shit, what his boyfriend Pagan would have meant to him (and vice versa) should have been enough to do the deal…….

      • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:54 pm

        Takes two to tango.

    • Alleykat said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:46 pm

      Didn.t think they would give Huff that much coin either Loo,but they did.Well I guess I will make my martini alittle stronger right now,shaken not stirred of course.

      • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:55 pm

        Only one?

  33. Alleykat said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Guess El Presidentes sigining capped them out of the Beltran sweepstakes.

  34. twinfan1 said, on December 22, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    I no longer have any interest in what they do or don’t do for this year. I’m not a doomer, I just don’t give a shit. I hope Whiteside does make the team and Buster retires on April 5 to join the clergy.

    • Nipper said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:56 pm

      “I just don’t give a shit.” Twin tired of cleaning up after his dog Zeke.

  35. PawlieKokonuts said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    This from Jayson Stark today:

    “In a year in which they put up fewer runs, over a full season, than any defending World Series champ in history, the Giants scored 570 runs. The Red Sox had 570 by July 28.”


    • DJLoo said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:30 pm

      I’ll take that any time they’re defending World Champs…

    • twinfan1 said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:47 pm

      Boy, I wish we coulda finished up like the Sox last year..

  36. Alleykat said, on December 22, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Besides the Beltran sign,the Cards real key pick up was “Counts Chocula Velez” who somehow managed to go 0-37 for the Dodgers last year.Shit even catcher Stewart had some bunt hits last year.Really sad how far Velez has fallen,to bad he could NEVER bunt for a hit.

    • DJLoo said, on December 22, 2011 at 8:02 pm

      Watch him turn into Lou Brock…

    • Big flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 8:22 pm

      Velez’ 0-37 is astounding for a guy who’s so fast. Big (Flavor) egg on my face for predicting pre season that he would come back to haunt us. Ha, that’s almost funny that he goes 0-37 on the year after I predict that…

  37. twinfan1 said, on December 22, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Shame on Donnie for not making sure he got that hit. Bums were going nowhere and Gino got 8 AB the last month.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 22, 2011 at 8:53 pm

      Christ. Babysitting the 5th option off the bench?


      Got to get him that elusive hit? Christ on a bicycle. Maybe he should have hit the goddamn ball. Or tried to learn how to bunt for a hit.

      • Big flavor said, on December 22, 2011 at 9:17 pm

        Agreed. Twin, your whole thing is play well when you get your chance or don’t play, right? Now you want to gift him a fucking hit? Totally hypocritical on your part….

  38. unca_chuck said, on December 22, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    I’m not trying to be a prick, but criminy, Velez is a big boy. Mattingly has to play who he thinks gives him a shot to win on a given night, not worry about the bench guy riding an 0-fer. Velez got another shot to stick with another team. Wish him well.

    You know what pisses me off?

    Barry Zito 145-124 (43-61 as a Giant?)
    Matt Cain 69-73 (he should beat at least 79-63)

    • zumie said, on December 22, 2011 at 11:42 pm

      “pisses you off,” seriously? Cain is a multi-millionaire with a World Series ring. Cain ought to be feeling sorry for us! (grin)

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