No, it was Not Worth it, Andrew…….
Despite going 5 for 5 with my bowl game picks yesterday I was nearly inconsolable at the end of the night. David Shaw’s decision to play for the FG had me shaking my head violently sideways in non-knowing-dude-head-nod-disapproval. The Stanford D was completely done, every person watching the game could see that. There was NO WAY Shaw should have risked going to overtime. And yet he did. Luck was doing WHATEVER he wanted to do to that defense. After Ok St scored to tie it at 38 I literally could have cared less, there was plenty of time for Luck to win the game for Stanford. Of course, he started to do just that by easily marching them down the field. And then with 52 seconds left and 3 time outs it….all….just….stopped……
You don’t give the ball to a freshman kicker in that situation unless it is literally going to be a straight ahead chip shot—like the one the Ok St kicker got to end the game.
I trust Andrew Luck…..’
I do not trust college kickers, especially a freshman college kicker who has already missed a similar-distanced field goal earlier in the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Besides, think about it: Luck came back to Stanford for 2 things: 1) win a National Championship and 2) win the Heisman. He accomplished neither. The last thing left to make it *worth it* would be to win the Fiesta Bowl in front of a national audience. And I do mean WIN IT. Not kinda win it or be a *part* of the win by setting it up for a freshman kicker. I’m talking about finishing off a 2 minute drive with a touchdown pass that wins the game and puts an epic exclamation point on his storied hall of fame career.
David Shaw SHOULD have known what to do in that situation. He HAD TO HAVE known how this was SUPPOSED to end, right? But there he was, ordering the clock down to 3 seconds and the ball into the middle of the field for his freshman kicker to shank it. And I’ll say it again, Andrew Luck HAS to be the one to win that game last night. Not the fucking freshman kicker.
So when they asked Luck if coming back to Stanford was worth it and he sheepishly says what he has to say, I know what the real answer was: No, it was not worth it. I’m disgusted with David Shaw this morning…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Totally agree, BF. Shaw was totally tone-deaf to ‘the moment.’ I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. Luck had just made that amazing pass with the 5 guys rushing in on him. Settling for the 35 yard FG just had bad news written all over it.
And then to top it off, the conservative play-calling in the OT.
Football coaches are conservative by nature. Shaw was just being himself. Anyway it was a good game and I enjoyed it. Sometimes the ending is not to our choosing.
Only saw the second half, but Luck looked great, and I would have liked to see him get a shot at putting the ball in the end zone off play action. You might draw a safety up and put the game away. He’s smart enough not to try and force a throw that might result in an int. Same with OT–at least take a shot and force OSU to go for 6 if you make it.
Even the OSU move to kick the FG that ended it from in close didn’t make any sense. Punch the ball in and go home while the kicker is playing with the net.
Luck isn’t going to be downgraded for taking an L in his final college game. Shaw, however, has a major rebuild in a tough conference with high scoring offenses. Harbaugh raised standards pretty high and Shaw has a lot of work ahead of him without Andrew Luck around any more.
totally agree, there’s no way Luck throws an INT in that situation. And if he did, then the loss is on him and I can deal with that a lot better than putting it in the hands of a scared kid. That was no chip shot.
I made the same point last night- leaving the game in the hands (uh, foot) of a freshman kicker– with the best QB in college football having driven them down with no resistance ( Luck was 5-5 on the drive and 26-30 on the night), was a terrible decision, which Shaw then compounded with his ridiculous play calling in OT. This was totally a coach’s loss..
Chuck says I’m FOS on this. Will he tell Flavor and Zumie they’re FOS, too? Stay tuned..
Chuck is wrong about this.
I agree…Stanford lost due to the coach’s decision to let his frosh kicker try to win the game. Twin captures it perfectly (Luck was 5-5 on the drive and 26-30 on the night). DOH!
A FOS declaration from Chuck is a badge of honor! I hope he followed with a loud BLEEP!
I hope Chuck shows up for a nice squabble.
Not that this will make you Stanford fans feel any better, but the Georgia coach was even worse in the Outback Bowl vs. Michigan State. If you missed it, after Georgia got an INT to start overtime, the coach didn’t even try to get a first down, instead taking a knee at the 25 on 2nd down to set up a game-winning 42-yard field goal. The kicker missed it, and Michigan St. eventually won in the 3rd overtime.
I agree Mac…and it pissed me off! That is the only game I missed on yesterday (22-7 for the entire series).
Chuckles’ rationale was that every coach would do what Shaw did- actually, with a gassed defense, a great QB on fire, and a freshman kicker… only one would do it. Unfortunately, it was the Stanford coach..
of course, Chuck is citing traditional coaching that you might see in that situation. But that doesn’t mean it HAS to happen that way every time. You consider specific details (already cited by me, Twin, others). It was a terrible decision. Not to mention, you could see how scared the kicker was before he went out there. You HAVE to take that into account, at least notice it, if you’re the coach. That’s your job, *skippy*.
It is all on Shaw, 52 srconds ,3 TO,that is an enternty for Luck.You dont sit on it with the Best QB in the nation who was 16out of 17 in the 2nd half.Especially after the FG kicker missed 2 earlier attempts.Just stupid coaching.
No situation is the same, there is no “traditional” call there. Shaw’s decision would make some sense if he had OSU’s kicker. It would make sense if his QB was Zach Maynard. It would make sense if your name was Bonehead Shaw and you were the Stanford coach..
Just going by those dreaded numbers, Luck had a far better chance throwing a TD pass than Williamson did in making a FG..
Williams had missed one all year from 31-40. If he makes it, no one would blink an eye at the call to do so.
Fire the coach!
Just to play devils advocate…I would liked to have seen them go for a TD, but
It’s not just a INT you worry about. Someone could fumble, Luck could get sacked, they could get called for holding, taking them out of FG range.
All kinds of shit could happen, none more likely than the little shit missing the FG..
The play was the right one. Regardless of the outcome.
What was Willamsons first name Fred? Cause in the end the Cardinals got the “Shaft”.
And, as Willie mentioned, Shaw made things harder for himself in the long run. He ruined the good vibe people had about him; he didn’t win the BCS bowl game, and now he has to rebuild next season. If he has a rough season next year, he’s on the hot seat. The bowl win last night, capping the great season, would have always been a strong thing for him to display in his favor.
Not to completely diminish what the coach accomplished this year, which was a lot, but a lot of fans will be inclined now to think that he won with Harbaugh’s team, with Luck carrying things.
The gap in college and pro sports between winning and losing is HUGE. It just is.
Did you watch Williamson and his routine after he was iced? I’ve seen enough of StarTrek to know he was looking for Scotty to beam him up..
As Bobby Bowden could have told him, relying on college kickers is a dicey thing.
I guaran-damn-tee you 99.8% of all the coaches in college OR the pros run the clock down. A 35 yard FG should be made most of the time. Freshman kicker or no. The kid had missed one FG from that range.
Like Mike is wont to say, the decision to kick is the right one. Regardless of the outcome.
What would I have done? Well, probably ran a couple more plays at least. That much time, you deserve to roll out and take a shot at the end zone. Throw it away if nothing is there. No sack, no grounding. Run up the middle to see if something happens.
Still and all, though, it doesn’t change the fact that nearly every coach out there does the same thing.
I disagree. I think a lot of other coaches would have done things differently in that situation.
Three of the keys being Luck the QB, the 3 timeouts Stanford had, and it being a bowl game that was NOT the national championship game.
I guaran-damn-tee you 99.8% of college coaches with that QB, that kicker, and a gassed defense never make that dunderheaded call…
And make up your mind, Chuckes- are you now saying you WOULDN’T have done what Shaw did?
What I’m saying, Skippy, and I’ll slow down so you understand it, is that even if Stanford runs a couple more plays, they still end up going for the FG. Sure, the defense was gassed, but if Williams makes the FG, Stanford wins. The defense being gassed has nothing to do with the decision to run the clock down and go for the FG.
Criminy.
Frankly I was surprised when OSU won the toss and elected to give the ball to Stanford. BECAUSE Stanford’s defense was tired. As it was, it worked out for Okie St, but more importantly, the play calling by Stanford in OT was shit.
I don’t. If he makes the FG, would anyone blink an eye at the strategy? No. Conservative? Sure.
Like I said, I may have run off a couple more plays, but in the end, you give the kicker the shot.
Chuck is right! Go Chuck ….take on these guys!
This was hardly the “usual” situation. If you have the BEST QB in college football, and a freshman kicker, that’s hardly business as usual. 35 yards is no chip shot in that situation, all things considered.
Sorry UncaC…I think you are barking up the wrong tree. With Luck as your QB (and as Twin pointed out earlier…him going 5-5 on the drive), 3 time outs…you go for the juglar (touchdown…or at least get closer). Agree with Zumie…35 yards for a frosh kicker in that pressure situations is NOT a chip-shot.
Chuckles is right- missing the kick is not what made the decision wrong- it was the fact that the odds on missing the kick were greater than them scoring the TD. See if you can work that using the numbers available, Chuckles.
More bullshit. Fumble, holding call, INT, or any other number of things could have foiled the scoring opportunity.
Luck had already thrown a pick in the game. No angst for him?
As usual, you argue for the sake of it.
“No situation is the same, there is no “traditional” call there.” That is pure unadulterated bullshit, Mike.
What if Williams makes the FG, Mike? Are people climbing the wall wondering why he did that? No.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Sure, college is a bit different than the pros, but still, most coaches do the same thing.
Most coaches don’t have Andrew Luck, and blah blah blah, I’m done debating this.
Shaw feels worse than anyone, anyway. He’ll be replaying that final 50 seconds for many years to come.
So numbskull is saying he would run more plays with no intention of scoring.
Gee, Mike does that ever happen in the game. Only a dullard wouldn’t think so. I suppose they should have thrown 4 times down there. The Mike Martz strategy of giving games away.
The thread is Flavor’s. It’s clear he saying that Shaw is a fucking idiot. Is some reason you won’t take him on? Or anyone else? Everyone knows you are fucking wrong.
Well, mainly because you are the only one acting like a 5 year old, Mikey.
Flav hasn’t rebutted any of my posts. YOU have. Every time.
Shaw may be an idiot, but I still say most coaches make that call.
I still say the decision was the right one. Regardless of the outcome.
The ghost of Bobby Bowden….
oops, didn’t mean for that to post twice.
Dipshit thinks the strategy should be exactly the same with any QB and any kicker..
And then he he says “What would I have done? Well, probably ran a couple more plays at least. That much time, you deserve to roll out and take a shot at the end zone. Throw it away if nothing is there. No sack, no grounding. Run up the middle to see if something happens.”
So he is agreeing that Shaw was wrong..
Chuck, NOBODY agrees with you. So cease the bullshit that I’m the Lone Ranger here.
In the end you give the kicker the shot if what YOU say to try fails. God, you’re dumb. You are taking a shot at the end zone with no intention of succeeding?
Don’t forget Tonto!
Thing is, Mikey, you are the one with his panties in a wad over this.
Flavor said his piece, as did the others. What did they do? Let it go. You on the other hand pull you usual smarmy bullshit namecalling condesention.
Grow up.
Gee, Mikey Is that the criteria now? Yer a real hoot, skippy.
Gee, Mikey. What would you have done? I was never asked what I would have done. I provided that info. I wasn’t hugely impressed with the wasting of all that time, but I think most of the coaches out there play it the same way or something very similar. Like I said, I was much more disappointed with the play calling in OT.
You need to do a little growing up, skippy. You stamp your feet and turn all red when someone disagrees with you.
Asshole, fuckhead, shit-for-brains, cocksucking fuckwad. You are not much more than a troll-baiting little prick these days. Happy New Year Mr. Grinch. Go get bent . . .
BLEEP!
Speaking of missed fieldgoals, here’s a classic, in recognition of Dallas missing the playoffs again this season:
Zumie–this is one of the main reasons I hate Tony Romo. I remember this like it was yesterday– I was sitting on my sister’s couch in Austin, Tx (visiting her) and I was about to close out 5 parlays with this simple kick. I sat there staring at the tv even after I had turned it off with a dumb founded look on my face. I’ve hated the dude ever since then and have relished the fact that he’s sucked in big games his entire career. F-Romo…….
I haven’t even clicked on the UTube video and I know what play it is. Yeah, Romo sucked from that day forward.
Take a look around, Skippy. EVERYONE ELSE has moved on. You cuntinue to take your smary little potshots as you always do until everyone grows tired of it and Flav has to start a new thread.
You turned it into a BFD- as always- then act like you have no part in the argument. You’ve done it for years- with MANY posters. You finally admit your original point was wrong and then attack me for being right.
Quick break from the Stanfoo game.
So I’m changing my Giants calender from Dec. to January. Nov. was DeRosa, December was Torres and Jan. was Dirty. I’m thinking I’d sure hate to be the February poster boy and I turn the page to find Huff. The Giants can’t trade Huff with the year he had and his contract, right? Then I start thinking about the Brewcrew with our own young Travis at the head of the 1B depth chart (or will be if they don’t make any changes) and they might need someone to fill in while their MVP takes a little vacation. I also remembered how Chris Haft mentioned that the Giants had Ludwick stop by last month for a little meet and greet. I wonder if Sabes really put a fork in this little off season? Oh wait, this all started from my calendar, never mind. Back to your regular program ‘As the Luck Runs Out’.
I’d love to see Travis get a shot again.
You and me both Twin. I think he’ll fit pretty well in Milwaukee but he’ll need to put up some good ST numbers to get a decent shot.
anyway we can get mrs. derosa back? calendar or not.
Now your are in full fabrication mode. What I AM these days is a person who will no longer put up with the trolls and scumballs you are the main apologists for. And the fact is you have COMPLETLY changed your tune on Shaw’s decision after you got your ass kicked on it. I’m disgusted with myself for being completely fooled on your character.
Well, I did say earlier that I thought Chuck was wrong, mostly because he was saying it was the correct way to play out the end of the game. It wasn’t. You consider all of the circumstances. Freshman kicker vs the best college QB in the game. If you don’t make a different decision than Shaw made based on that then you might as well just have a computer making the decisions instead of Shaw. “With 52 seconds to go and in a tie game at the 27 yard line 92.7% of coaches center ball, run clock down and attempt field goal”–but computers don’t coach games, people do. I am saying is that it was a DUMB call for all the reasons that have been listed earlier.
In fact, Chuck, you have NO STATISTICAL data that suggests that’s what all college coaches would do in the same situation since you simply don’t have a statistically significant number of situations that matched last night’s EXACT moment: bowl game, freshman kicker who’s already missed one, hall of fame QB in his final drive of his college career driving the ball easily down the field with plenty of time and three time outs”– ok, show me how many situations in the history of college games where that exact situation has happened. If you can say, “Yeah, there’s 50-60 of those exact situations and the coaches ALWAYS did what Shaw did then I will defer to you on this. But you can’t provide that, can you?
Listen, first he says what Shaw did was right. Then he says he’d run more plays, including a shot at end zone before he’d kick. So he’s saying he’d do EXACTLY what everybody else says Shaw should have done before leaving it up to kicker.
Won’t happen but I would love to have WR Justin Blackmon on the Niners.That dude is going to be a flat out stud.Speed to burn,great hands.jump and get any errant throw from Alex,would make a great duo with Crabtree and Davis especially in the red zone and just streching the field for long gains.
I think we need to worry a helluva lot more with dropped passes than errant throws…
This has been an entertaining thread. Almost makes me wish I gave a shit about college sports. Almost.
Bozo, I am thinking SF might pick up Ludwick too. Sabean may have a move or two left. Ross has been in the rumor mill lately. I don’t see him getting 2@$10M though. Dude should just come back to SF.
Dirt, I love Alex to death but I am totally down with him kneeling down twice so Akers can kick a 35 yard FG for the the Super Bowl win..
I like Cody rather than Ludwick..
Twin, good one. Fair enough. I didn’t watch so I don’t have an opinion. just can’t get into the college sports. Not sure why.
True, Ross would be the better choice. Some of the numbers I have seen that he is looking for are just delusional. Can’t blame him though as this is probably his one shot at big dollars. If he comes back to SF i’m sure Bochy will get him in the mix plenty. All he has to do is beat out
Schierholtz
Cody’s video with BW, Lou Seal, and the little kid is the best video since November Rain. BTW, I have a bad feeling in my gut about Wilson that won’t go away. Has anyone seen a medical update on him?
My earliest college football memory is the ND-Michigan State 10-10 tie game in ’66. The details are foggy, but I believe Parseghian was widely criticized afterwards…
Agree Loo . . . I went to a dance/party on New Year’s Eve and everyone is dancing to that song, including me, except I am thinking, “GO GIANTS!” Great catchy tune.
My point in all this is that most coaches would have played it the same way. It’s easy to call the decision stupid in hindsight.
My opinion.
Where do you stand on the Bay of Pigs?
I don’t. I swim in the Bay of Pigs . . .
I mean, really. I hang out here . . .
You already said you wouldn’t have played it the same way. And no, you didn’t say “most”, you said “Every coach plays it that way.”
Just give it up..
I said most, Mikey. 99.8% = most. That would be one out of the 149 Div I and NFL coaches that I cited that wouldn’t do it.
Actually, you said 99.8% of coaches, but who’s counting? (grin)
His post said what I said it said. In fact, he was more adamant earlier
“EVERY COACH in the pros or college does that.” That was from last night.
As will Mike Nolan once Miami is gutted yet again.
You TWICE said “every.” Don’t lie, Chuck.
“Every coach plays it that way.”
“EVERY COACH in the pros or college does that.”
Those are dirtect quotes from you from the last thread.
Ah, my post was directed at Chuck. I never saw your reply until after I posted. The reply feature gets things a little off-kilter sometimes.
I don’t agree at all that most coaches would have played it that way. Some would have, simply because bad coaches coach in a vaccum where they are afraid of critisicm that comes with taking risks and failing. But good coaches understand things like personnel, game situations and momentum. They also understand that a 19 year old kicker who already missed a kick he normally wouldn’t might be feeling nerves. I went nuts when it became apparent they were ignoring nearly a minute on the clock, Luck at QB, a dominant running game and a defense playing w/o confidence. To be clear, a FG would have been fine but you get as close as you can. In that situation it’s not easy to score the TD w/o taking big risks, but it wouldn’t have been tough w/Luck and that running game (yes, I would run the ball on the edge behind those 2 top 15 picks and use those timeouts) to get another 15 yards and set up a game winner short enough to calm those nerves.
Shaw deserves every bit of criticism he’s getting…
Anyone else as surprised as me that Norv Turner didn’t get fired?
There’s time. Bresnahan (Raiders DC) is likely looking for work soon.
As will Mike Nolan
Most coaches would play it that way. Right or wrong.
Excuse the fuck out of me that I said ‘every.’
Fuck, you are a tiresome little prick, Mike.
Typical- get caught in a lie and blame someone else.
This usually when my Ortmeier predicction from 4 years ago comes out..
Look, all you had you had to is give it up. You’ve even contradicted that it was the right decision..
Man, DJ, were you serious with that “November Rain” reference? That’s pretty funny.
Sounds like the Vikes are going to clean house…and that Samurai Mike didn’t do much to help his cause, there.
Not mentioned in all the bullshit- Williamson hurt his leg, missed 3 games, returned for the Big Game and had been 2 for 5 since.
I agree with Loo, as usual. Here’s that video he was talking about. This kid is like 17 years old or so. He’s got a rare disorder and as I understand it, he pays for his medical bills with all these youtube videos. Wilson said they did this on one take.
I like.
Like I said earlier, my favorite New Year Eve’s rap dance song 😉
Maybe this sheds light on Yungo’s year:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/239863.php
Pawlie– I appreciate the link but I can tell you that I know an awful lot about this topic, certainly more than anyone here, and I can tell you with certainty that this wasn’t Andres’ issue. He had access to the adderall.
It was reported that he had difficulties with the the medication in 2011.
I know that. I am disputing what this specific article is about and how this isn’t what andres’ problem was—he had difficulty with the effects and the dosage, he didn’t have a problem getting it.
And I know that- but not everybody might be aware that were problems with his meds.
OK. I’ll go along w/ your take, Magnus. Was just tossing it out there.
That was a cute one. They definitely picked the right guys for the videos and commercials. Cain, Ross, Wilson, Torres… they were all great.
Did someone already mention this: Henry reports that Huff says he’s “ripped” and ready to compete with Belt and Pill for playing time..
Nothing motivates a ballplayer like an expiring contract…
The “contract year”( the notion that players perform better in the final year of a contract ) is a myth. There are plenty of detailed studies on this that anyone can research, but here’s a simple one.
http://tinyurl.com/7tzpmns
Huff is drunk? That’s news?
Or is he saying at the end of the season Bochy and Sabean ripped him a new one?
I give you guys an easy one, no credit at all..
“You can’t believe everything you read on the internet.” – Abraham Lincoln
Just for the heck of it.
Really Clown? He said that????
I think it was on his blog.
Right after he got the new WI FI hooked up to the horse.
Gee, it’s a good thing I’m not a serious football fan and missed the game. But for the record: I agree with Twin. And with Chuck. Both. Or either. Or neither. (I get so confused trying to be OBSEQUIOUS!)
I had to look up “OBSEQUIOUS” in Merriam-Webster and the website asks, “What made you want to look up obsequious? Please tell us where you read or heard it (including the quote, if possible).”
Everyone else had . . .
“John Piper’s series on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.”
“Emerson Essay- Nature: When the rich tax the poor with servility and obsequiousness, they should consider the effect of men reputed to be possessors of nature, on imaginative minds.”
“Obsequiousness as a vice in Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics.”
Me? I have some guy named PawlieKokonuts who writes on a blog for Flappers. 🙂
Zeke is the obsequious one in my house. Mickey took care of that upon their first meeting.
Emerson is always great for a quote, don’t you think? Plus he was not as much of a curmudgeon as his buddy Thoreau. (I mean, all due respect, as Tony Soprano would preface his wackable remarks, but wasn’t Thoreau the Unabomber w/o the bomb? Or is that harsh?) Back to baseball. Yes, obsequiousness is a vice I have to be aware of. . .though the Flap is hardly a breeding ground for this particular shortcoming, it seems.
Blade: I hope you said exactly that to Merriam-Webster!
But of course . . . http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsequious
Now your famous. LQTM.
Nipper, I just saw an ad for perfectmeatloaf.com. I don’t vouch for it but you’re never getting my recipe, so you might as well give it a shot..
https://www.perfectmeatloaf.com/?mid=1344766
Is “perfectmeatloaf” code for anything? i.e., abstaining from naughty self-indulgence? hahahahahahahahahaha
Santorum and Romney almost EXACTLY TIED. America’s pundits are so hungry for the Big Headline, even if one of them won by one vote they’d crown that person the, um, “winner.” Well, two safely apolitical comments/questions from me:
1. Did anyone ask any of the candidates how to pitch to Fidel Castro? Can he still get around on the fastball?
and
2. Is Iowa where the Field of Dreams is? If so, name three players in that Clean, Well-Lighted Place.
I dare you to google Santorum . . .
what if I prefer to Bing? or Bling? or, heck! Alta Vista, baby!
“Richard John “Rick” Santorum (born May 10, 1958) is a lawyer and a former…”
So?
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I just heard that silly *$&^@%#$$ Bachmann give her speech . . . crazy loon acted like she won. What a whack job. Actually, a, b, c, d, e, or f . . . They are all tools and Obama will beat them easily. If he doesn’t then I am moving permanently to Central America.