A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Bad Decisions: Drew Stiner and Ryan Madson

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 11, 2012

So where does Stiner go from here? He was our 43rd round draft choice in the 2011 Amateur Draft that got hit with a 50 game suspension the other day for testing positive for a banned amphetamine. Drafted out of high school in the 43rd round and you’re already banned for 50 games. Ouch. Could be time to go to college instead. I took a look at the 43rd round draft in 2011–there was actually a guy who got a $300,000 signing bonus in that round–Ty Washington, SS, drafted by the Reds. Something tells me they might have had a little leverage on him with that draft spot but I guess they are trying to make sure he signs instead of going to college….

Speaking of the Reds, they just signed Ryan Madson to a 1 year, 8.5 million dollar deal. Not bad scratch for us commoners, but his dumbass agent (Scott Boras) was draggin his feet and fiddling around with a 4 year, 44 million dollar offer with the Phillies a few months back before they finally had it with him and signed Papelbon instead.  Madson is now apparently going the route of Adrian Beltre (sign a 1 year deal with Boston and try to hit it big the next year–which he did with Texas).

Madson is a heck of a pitcher who worked his ass off to get where he is today but I think he didn’t get the best counsel on this. Closers shelf lives can be awfully short, the window for success closes quickly. At 31 years old, you would think he would have parlayed last year’s success into something that could take care of his family for life. Instead his agent negotiated him right out of a deal that could have done just that. I think he’ll have a nice year for the Reds in 2012 and he COULD get the deal he was searching for or at least take one similar to the one he had on the table a couple of months ago.

It’s always nice to see Scott BorASS take a loss like this but I feel badly for Madson who probably could have scored 4 times what he got, at least, if he had just signed quickly with the Phillies….


Retro Action…..

June 27th, 1984. Kind of a wild affair, Giants were leading 5-0 into the 5th when the Reds scored 6 runs to take the lead. The Giants answered back with 5 in the bottom of the 5th with the help of a Chili Davis pinch hit grand slam. Another game where the Giants had 15 hits. I think that’s 2 or 3 recent Retro games from ’84 where the Giants had 15 hits and I’m not doing that on purpose. We must have had some hitters that year though we were in last place as of this game. The Reds had someone named “Vernon Rapp” managing them. No recollection of him at all…..

Giants won this one 14-9

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  1. willieD said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:23 am

    I think boras did screw up Madson, but if he has a decent year there will be plenty of teams interested, esp if he shows is main guy closer material. but why leave Philly unless he’s unhappy?
    Speaking of Philly, I want to ask MacD about St. Joe’s and the situation with the O’Brien kid they won’t let play for UAB. Martelli or the kid FOS? Temple the best Big 5 school this year?
    Al Oliver at basically the end of his long career, could still hit .300, altho tons of GIDPs and no HRs all year. There was something else (besides lack of range at 1b) about him that was an odd stat in that year for SF, but I can’t remember what it was. Line drive machine–I love to watch guys like that hit.

    • EdGdsnInExile said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:46 am

      WillieD, saw your post just after I went to baseball-reference.com to check his stats. I don’t remember his (2/3) year with us at all. But you’re right, I recall him as one of those guys who could get right out of bed and hit.

    • ewisco said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:35 am

      I don’t know. i seem to remember that as the lighest .300 i’d ever seen.

  2. gianthead said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Boras is an evil, evil man. When Madson had 4 years on the table for $44 million to play for the team he had been with and be their closer, he should have jumped on it. Boras screwed him. Why certain players use him because he always has bigger clients on the table (Fielder for Boras this year) is beyond me.

    If I wanted an agent that had my best interest at heart, I would not use the guy that has hundreds of others under contract and is as ruthless as Boras is. I am wondering if Boras is fucking around with Fielder’s contract. Cant understand how Fielder has not decided where he is going…

    • willieD said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:15 am

      I don’t begin to understand the bucks…how much do you f-ing need? Philly has to be one of the best places to play in all of baseball: full house, rabid fans, vet presence , laid back mgr, f/o spends money to help the team stay at top. what f-ing more do you want out of life?

    • Alleykat said, on January 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm

      Yeah GH……Where’s Jerry Maguire when you need him?

  3. Flavor said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:52 am

    I remember Oliver well–dude raked but I was super surprised (as you guys were) that he hit no bombs in his half year with us……
    My bias against players from the 80’s is that they were all coke addicts— something went south, whether it be power, batting average, defense….I just chalk it up to being a coke addict. I’m probably wrong most of the time.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:57 am

      Players got into coke because it was more fun than speed.

      Was it Tim Raines who said he started sliding headfirst so he wouldn’t break his vial of liquid coke he carried in his back pocket?

    • James said, on January 11, 2012 at 12:37 pm

      I remember his stint w/ zero HRs very well. He seemed to hit fly balls to left center the way Rowand hit grounders to third.

  4. unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:55 am

    Ahhh, Danny Gladden. I always liked that guy. The Robby Thompson of the outfield. And this was the one year we had Dusty in the OF . . .

    • twinfan1 said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:53 am

      I’m sure you remember that he scored the winning run in Game 7 of one the greatest WS ever

      • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:03 am

        Yeah. but he was a Twin by then. I was happy for him . . .

      • twinfan1 said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:39 am

        Yeah, that’s why it says “Twins” on his shirt…Jesus, Chuck, it was just a little piece of trivia for those who didn’t remember that

  5. ChiPower said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Boras is a jackass.

    Dodgers get settlement in pissing match with Fox Sports.


    All I know is 38 days until pitchers and catchers report for the Giants. I’m ready for some baseball!

  6. zumie said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Anyone else notice that the Warriors game was blacked out on Comcast last night? They won a thrilling overtime game against Miami, but no TV coverage in my area. The after-midnight replay was even blacked out.

  7. Macdog said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:48 am

    That ’84 team finished last, but as I remember they were a good hitting team and kinda fun to follow. Especially when Gladden came up, he was just dynamite leading off. And then of course the Giants got rid of him and he was hitting grand slams in the World Series for the Twins.

    Sorry Flav, at 1Y/$8.5M, I’m not feeling too sorry for Madson.

    And WillieD, for college hoops I really only follow Rutgers, Seton Hall and Michigan St. (wife’s alma mater), so I have no clue what the St. Joe’s situation is. Oh, and local Monmouth University, where the new coach, King Rice, who played for Dean Smith, is already making Rex Ryan-like pronouncements on how good they’re going to be when he gets his own players. They lost to No. 25 Harvard last night at home, 70-61.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:04 am

      #25 Harvard?

      • Macdog said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:49 am

        Well, at least according to the ESPN/USA Today Coaches poll, not the standard AP one.

  8. Alleykat said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:58 am

    I just remember DUMBSHIT Madson breaking his toe in the Philly dugout against the Giants costing him the 2nd half a couple years ago.What a dipshit.

    • twinfan1 said, on January 11, 2012 at 10:41 am

      Damn, now he’ll never get into heaven..

  9. Bozo said, on January 11, 2012 at 10:10 am

    Off-topic, but maybe fits in the Bad Decisions topic name. The Gold Dust Lounge is being evicted. I think the place has been around since the 30s. I’m pretty sure the owner is brothers with the guy that owns Lefty O’Douls around the corner. Sorry, I just hate to see old school SF bars go down the tubes for another GAP or some shit.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:16 am

      Nooo! That stinks. Defintely one of the good old good ones . . .

      My daughter worked at Lefty’s for a while last year. She loved it, but it was getting in the way of school.

  10. Bozo said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Yeah Chuck. Late 70s early 80s I worked in a store at The Cannery. There was a few times when I’d take the street car from the Sunset to Powell street have a couple of pops at the Gold Dust and then hop the cable car over to work. They were open early, the drinks were cheap and once the bartenders knew you, stiff.

  11. twinfan1 said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Speaking of dumbshits ( Kat referring to Madsen ), how many episodes of House have there been? 100’s maybe? Has it ever occurred to the other doctors that they have NEVER been right?

    • Bozo said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:49 am

      They probably feel the same way as the DA that faced Perry Mason or whatever the team was (Generals?) that faced the Globetrotters.

      • zumie said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:56 am

        Hamilton Berger. He did win ONE case in the Perry Mason series, just to throw a curve at the viewers.

      • zumie said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:58 am

        By the way, if the character’s name is “Hamilton Berger,” not a good sign.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 12:24 pm

        Beats Hamilton Mixer . . .

      • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 12:25 pm

        Don’t know WTF that means, but I crack myself up sometimes . . .


  12. DJLoo said, on January 11, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    I think I once saw Steve Mike-Mayer kick off to Herb Mul-key…

    • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 12:56 pm

      Was Mul-key on the Giants? I vaguely remember that weird name . . .

    • Alleykat said, on January 11, 2012 at 1:25 pm

      Yeah Steve Miss a Mile another chump FG kicker along with Mike (Choker) Cofer.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 1:57 pm

        Don’t forget Wade (right) Richey . . .

        Bruce Gossett was the first kicker I remember as a kid. He wasn’t half bad.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 1:58 pm

        And Cortez the killer . . .

  13. Alleykat said, on January 11, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    My belated Happy Birthday to Willie Stretch McCovey!!!!!
    The pride of Mobile Alabama and the San Francisco Giants Forever!!!!!!!!
    As a kid I was just in awe of Stretch.He was larger then life.It was great watching him flick the ball sidearm between innings with zip on it to all the infielders.Then to see him in the on deck circle swinging that lumber and knowing myself the pitcher is shitting all over his jock strap knowing he is coming up to destroy him.

    • DJLoo said, on January 11, 2012 at 2:16 pm

      I can still see him pounding them off the scoreboard in BP at Shea. Also remember him hitting the flagpole in dead center (in a game). Forget about autographs – he never came anywhere near the stands – Mays either. And he once bunted a double down the LF line against the “McCovey Shift” in a nationally televised game of the week vs. San Diego (1969?). Did you know the correct pronunciation of his name rhymed with “anchovy” but he gave up trying to get announcers to go along with that?

      • TedSpe said, on January 11, 2012 at 2:45 pm

        No, I didn’t know that. Funny. Same with The Bride of Frankenstein herself, Elsa Lanchester. All her professional life people pronounced it Lancaster despite it actually being pronounced exactly as it’s spelt. So she, too, just gave up

      • DJLoo said, on January 11, 2012 at 4:06 pm

        See page 59:


      • TedSpe said, on January 11, 2012 at 4:08 pm


    • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 2:19 pm

      Roger that, Kat…

  14. snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    I’m trying to imagine Stretch hitting while on steroids.
    He might literally have torn the cover off the ball. Or, hit 700 foot home runs…

  15. DJLoo said, on January 11, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    No one could articulate the name Willie McCovey quite like Lindsey Nelson…

  16. stixwiz said, on January 11, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    Nice to see the Giants just re-upped Vogelsong with a 2-year contract. Perhaps this will break the contract logjam with Matt and Timmy. My personal preference would be for Matt to get 5 years and Timmy agree to three. I’m ok with a short leash for Zito as the #5. Who knows, maybe he’ll get the notion he has something to prove (at last!) and goes on to become the best fifth starter in the game. That failing, a bit of AAA action and some good advise and Eric Surkamp might just demonstrate in The Show why he was the most successful starter in the toughest pitching AA division last year.

    • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:55 pm

      I’m up for two more years of Vogie. Obviously, hope he is not a one year wonder…

    • ChiPower said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:40 pm

      I like it, too. With what is out there, 8 mil for two is good value. Giants have an option, too. Sabean said that once ST starts the focus will be on getting something done with Cain. And I like Cain for 4 with an option. Sounds like there is still a void on $$ and length of contract between the team and Timmy. I like Timmy for 2 or 3 with an option, too. 38 days.

  17. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    The stuff we learn here. Thanks, Loo, for that pronunciation nugget regarding McCovey. (Which gives me the opportunity to pontificate the “forte” is, strictly speaking, not pronounced “for-tay,” since it derives from the French and there’s no accent mark on the “e.” Nevertheless, language is organic and adapts, and I’d be only the most supercilious pedant to insist on the older pronunciation, wouldn’t I? So I gave up.)

    I see we signed Vogelsong to a two-year deal with an option for a third. The article by MLB writer Chris Haft nearly plunged me into the throes of deep depression, because he cavalierly speaks of the Giants losing Lincecum and Cain for the long term. DOUBLEYOU-TEE-EFF.

    And speaking of closed bars, is Dino’s still open. I have no idea where it is/was. Downtown? During my first visit to SF, in ’74, I was introduced to this “dance emporium” and spent roughly $1,447 in today’s money adjusted for inflation. But the topless dancers were not just classy and sexy; they were smart. Berkeley chicks. (They weren’t??) Dino’s. Ah.

    • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:31 pm

      In the early 80s while at grad school at Berkeley, I went with a group of testosterones after a winning day at GG Fields into SF for some exploits. Went to Scoma’s and blew a few hundred on wine and Cioppino, then onto the strip joint of Powell just next to the old Chancellor Hotel (the ” Pink Pussycat?”) for some action. We were so drunk, we barely noticed the girls were naked, and all rated about 3 on a scale of 10. Berkeley girls? No, the tittage was too good for that. Faces definitely coulda’ been Stanford, tho;….. :).

    • ChiPower said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:42 pm

      Giants will lock-up Cain to a deal. Timmy is another story. In my opinion…Cain is the priority.

  18. unca_chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Love that Life magazine . . .

  19. snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    With her birthday today, my older Snarkkette turned into a teenager.
    She is a great kid.
    But, as a father, I know I am now officially hosed…

    • Flavor said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:38 pm

      yes, you are hosed. I’m not looking forward to it.

      • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:45 pm

        Shit, at least you could’ve lied to make me feel better…

      • DJLoo said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:52 pm

        The problem for young females (as I see it) is that they are growing up in a world that has convinced them the only thing worth being is “hot”.

      • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 7:00 pm

        It’s hard to avoid Katy Perry, etc., being role models, but I’m definitely going to stress the education thing as much as possible, as long as possible. At minimum, the Snarkkettes should turn out in their 20s to be at least interested Giants fans, though probably not rabid. There’s something to be said for that….

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on January 11, 2012 at 7:14 pm

        Two of my three children are daughters, 14 and 25. They’re fine. In fact, one of the things I most enjoy is how they are so sisterly now, so much equals, despite huge age difference [actually half-sisters via two marriages]. Freudians used to say something like, give me a child for five years and then you can have him or her. Actually, I think it’s more like three years. My point being: if you’ve done a good job of parenting, and it sure sounds as if the folks here have done so, it works out. That’s my sunny view today. tomorrow my view may be darker, but not today. And I firmly believe my children or not my possessions. My job is to nurture wholesome individuals and let them go. (Ahem. Easier said than accomplished. I fully concede that.) Now, back to Giants baseball.

    • twinfan1 said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:45 pm

      Even with me playing Dad and a succession of strippers as Mommy Dearest, my Lisa actually made it to adulthood unscathed. But keep that Maker’s Mark on hand..

      • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:48 pm

        Actually, it’s in hand right now…

      • unca chuck said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:02 pm

        Sports are always a good option. Keeps ’em busy, and gives ’em self esteem to boot.

      • twinfan1 said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:55 pm

        Lisa is a huge sports fan. She worries me as my sister is even better/worse. If they ever get together for a game, I worry they’ll paint their bodies and I’ll have to disown them. So you have it right, Snarkk. They should know that in baseball that runs and not points are scored but they don’t really need to get the cops at the door for a successful “moved the runner to third”…

    • ChiPower said, on January 11, 2012 at 8:43 pm

      It’s all good Snarkk…my baby turned 25 last year. Sure, there are some trying times with any kid growing up…you (and she) will be fine….

      • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 10:28 pm

        OK ChiP. I can barely imagine the Snarkkettes at 25, mostly because I’m trying to not imagine myself another decade+ older. Ha. Thanks for the encouragement. I guess at 25, or whatever age, the kid(s) will always be your “baby”. That’s cool, as long as I’m still “Daddy”…

  20. twinfan1 said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    I can see them signing Matt or Tim long term, but it’s easy to see neither signing. And it has nothing to do with anything but bucks if they do leave. If/when they get to the point where they’re convinced they can’t get done, trade time..hey, if they can get real value we can bitch about the shit pitching. I can dig 200 HRs per year..

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on January 11, 2012 at 7:07 pm

      I was naive about Pujols. Thought he’d be like Jeter or Ripken and stay w/ STL. (Who else qualifies for that rarefied atmosphere? Posada? Yaz? how many modern players? Gibson? Killebrew?) I mean, when you’re talking 180 or 230 or 240 million dollars, does it matter? Are those dollar differences significant? I figured, no, not really, not when you have so much loose change in your jeans. Silly me. So, our sports “hero” figures turn out to be mostly mercenaries. I’m a big boy. I get that. I can take it. After all, even Babe Ruth and Willie Mays were traded, and that was before free agency. Even Juan Marichal ended his career as a Dodger (6 innings), and Duke Snider as a Giant, if I’m not mistaken! (Jackie Robinson had the good sense to retire rather than be traded to the Giants.) But I readily admit to the very un-zenlike quality of wanting to hold on to guys like Lincecum and Cain, forever and ever, amen.

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on January 11, 2012 at 7:08 pm

        …and Willie McCovey, too. He was traded. But he came back.

      • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 11:28 pm

        Seinfeld was right.
        Now, more than ever, we’re rooting for laundry.
        Our laundry is cream colored with black and orange.
        The players’ laundry is green with presidents on it (the material of US bills is cotton plus linen and other washable materials)…

  21. DJLoo said, on January 11, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    I guess that kills any chance I had with Mrs. V…

  22. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 11, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Merriam-Webster, I’ve been served. http://bit.ly/1EipwO

    • zumie said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:49 pm

      “So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose.”

      Ha! That’s a dictionary with some attitude.

  23. St said, on January 11, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Vogelsong deal done. 2 yrs with club option. Worth 8 m

    • snarkk said, on January 11, 2012 at 10:30 pm

      Sounds like a fair deal for both sides. I’m happy for Vogie and family. Great story….

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