A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Knocking Down the Arbitration Cases

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 17, 2012

The Giants avoided arbitration with Angel Pagan yesterday. Too bad, that’s likely the only case they would have WON. They’ve got 6 more to deal with and, unlike Pagan, all 6 had very good years that improved on their previous year: Melky, Casilla, Timmy, Sergio, Pablo and Nate. But how much does an improved year have to do with a raise in arbitration and how much of it just depends on service time?

It’s always kinda odd to me that a player in his arb years makes more money each successive year regardless of how he did the season before. Pagan, for example, made 3.5 million last year. His 2011 season was worse than his 2010 season, that’s not even debatable. And yet the Giants avoid arbitration with him by agreeing to pay 4.85 million with plate appearance incentives that can get him to an even 5 million for the year.

I’m not debating what they ultimately agreed on, Pagan was projected to make 4.70 million in arbitration. From what we’ve heard, he sounds like a bit of a moody dude, probably best to make him happy and not have to go through the arb process where the Giants are forced to point out all his faults in an effort to save a few bucks.

I’m assuming there’s something in the CBA that covers this but I couldn’t find it: Is there a minimum set % increase in salary based on service time? Because that would be the only thing that would explain why Pagan would make 4.85mil in 2012, a 27% salary increase if he doesn’t hit his plate incentives, coming off a worse year than he had in 2011.

Since they are now forever linked, Andres Torres will be an interesting case to watch. He made 2.2mil last year, a number that we all know was far below what he was worth from a WAR standpoint in 2010. But 2011 was pretty much of a lost year for him. Will he get offered a standard percentage raise off the 2.2 mil simply because he’s got another year of service in the bank? I don’t know the answer to this…..

My guess is that Torres would make somewhere around 3.2 million considering his service time and if he went through the arbitration process. However, that’s just a guess.  If correct, the Giants are shelling out about 2 million more for Pagan, a clear indication that they think he’s more likely than Torres to have a bounce back year in 2012. I happen to agree with them though I could easily see being wrong about that……

It will be interesting to see how the remaining 6 arbitration cases go for the Giants. I’d like to see Timmy go to arbitration just because it would be an electric circus to watch play out. If I’m Bobby Evans, I take a trip to visit Pablo and if he’s still in good shape I’d offer him a multi year deal and try to buy out some of his remaining years. The other 4 guys I think I’d let go through the arb process though I understand the advantages to agreeing outside of arbitration……..


Retro GAME OF THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something interesting I’ve stumbled upon doing the RGOTD– Without all of the new teams (Colorado, Florida and Arizona) and sans interleague play, it’s remarkable how often the SAME TEAMS keep coming up in the schedule. As promised, I am skipping through ’85 at a brisk pace. Today is May 31st and we are playing the Phillies. I have no recollection of Ricky Adams but he was our starting 3rd baseman on this day. Krukow pitched 8 solid and the Giants got bombs from Davis and Adams (his first) to lead the way to a 4-3 victory over a pretty bad Philly team. Attendance was bad, as expected, only 7.755 die hards showed up…….

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  1. dirtnrocksnreno said, on January 17, 2012 at 7:06 am

    I was just on MLBTR and it looks like the Giants were busy and avoided arbitration with Cabrera and Casilla leaving Schierholtz, Sandoval, Romo and Lincecum. With Sabean’s standard operating procedure I can see that shrinking to 2 of the remaining 4 right before the deadline. Lincecum seems intent on going to arbitration and I’m sure the player’s association is too.

  2. Bozo said, on January 17, 2012 at 7:17 am

    From last night.
    “Bozo, have you given a how do you like me now shout out to your nola buddies?”
    Nope Willie, I’m just letting it lay there like something hot and steamy.

  3. willieD said, on January 17, 2012 at 7:31 am

    Good one, B. I liked Ludwick couple years ago but he seemed to have lost it in Stl; they went after Holliday because he could better protect Pujols, and the guy hasn’t been the same player since. smith I don’t see doing too much for the A’s, and even if he did Beane would flip the guy, like the Pads will do if Quentin is healthy and hits at all for them.
    But..willingham is one of the few guys that actually did OK for them, and I would have taken a shot at him for that reason alone. Sure he’s a liability in LF, but he can’t be any worse than Burrell was, and imo is going to be a more productive hitter than anyone else we have in the OF.
    As Twin said, Giants appear to believe they have multiple options for the OF, tho all seem to have definite limitations of where they can play and what they can do. Maybe that’s one for room b: who best plays where and how do they fit into the LU?

  4. Alleykat said, on January 17, 2012 at 7:55 am

    Gary Rajsich cleanup? No wonder they lost over 100 games….

  5. Flavor said, on January 17, 2012 at 8:02 am

    I just listened to Kuip show on KNBR– they replayed Kruk’s prediction from the other day—shit if that fucker didn’t nail the call of how the Niner game was going to end. “It’s gonna end with the niners winning it on a pass from Smith to Vernon Davis with no time left on the clock.”
    that’s pretty incredible…..

    • Kevin said, on January 17, 2012 at 11:31 am

      Yeah I heard that too. what a call to make. Now Kruk needs to make that call with the SF Giants!! ha ha. maybe a little tuffer to do.

  6. zumie said, on January 17, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Gary Rajsich?? Now you’re just making this stuff up. (grin)

  7. DJLoo said, on January 17, 2012 at 10:35 am

    I’m pretty sure Rajsich was part of the Jack Clark deal with St. Louis. I remember him making an incredible sliding catch on the RF line at Shea. Probably the highlight of his career…

    • Alleykat said, on January 17, 2012 at 12:24 pm

      Loo….I know that Stiff David Green was part of that horrible trade for the “Ripper ” think we got Jose Uribe as well,atleast he was serviceable player.

  8. Bozo said, on January 17, 2012 at 11:33 am

    I couldn’t remember Rajsich or Ricky Adams, so I looked them up. Each guy only played in 50 some odd games for us. Both guys played from 82 – 85, 1985 being their only time as Giants and last in MLB. Rajsich had 3 career HRs, Adams 4. Rajsich was born on October 28 in 1954, Ricky Adams died on October 28 of last year.
    I’m officially weirded out now.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2012 at 11:54 am

      Were you born on October 28th, Bozo?

      • Bozo said, on January 17, 2012 at 12:15 pm

        No Chuck, my birthday was this weekend. 10/28 doesn’t strike me as a special date for anything, but for some reason this just weirded me out. Maybe they were pals, maybe they hated each other but in my addled brain it seems like they were linked somehow.
        Sooo (changing the subject), how bout dem Niners.

  9. unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Well, happy birthday. That is odd, though. I don’t remember either of those guys either.

  10. ewisco said, on January 17, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    I was going to a lot of games in the mid eighties and i don’t remember those guys either. i did know back a beer or three but still . . .

    • ewisco said, on January 17, 2012 at 12:37 pm

      that’s “knock back”. i knowed it be.

  11. Alleykat said, on January 17, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Sure it wasn’t Gary Radnich sneaking into the LU for this game??

  12. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 17, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    Magnus, don’t you “owe” it to the Flap to make some kind of tie-in to Jeff Leonard on one of these retro games? Just an eponymous type of suggestion.

    • Flavor said, on January 17, 2012 at 8:13 pm

      excellent point. But we’re only at ’85. Leonard is coming. The Baseball Bloggers Alliance wants me to join them and I said I would. The dude running it said he almost didn’t ask me since he’s a huge Cardinal fan and he can’t stand to look at a blog titled “one flap down”.
      Anyway, they have a bunch of super cool blog links that you guys will like. I’ve avoided this type of *linking* in the past but I’ve decided to do it now. Forthcoming…….

  13. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 17, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    AP says Panda has a three-year deal.

  14. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    One-year pact for Nate.

  15. DJLoo said, on January 17, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    Lincecum offered record $17M, asks for $21.5M
    NEW YORK, Tue Jan 17, 09:49 PM

    Tim Lincecum asked San Francisco for $21.5 million in arbitration, just shy of the record for a player, and the Giants offered him a club-record $17 million Tuesday on a dizzying day when 79 players agreed to contracts.
    The two-time NL Cy Young Award winner was among 54 players who exchanged figures with their teams, and his request fell short of the record $22 million requested by Roger Clemens from Houston when he became a free agent and accepted the Astros’ arbitration offer before the 2005 season.

    At the exchange of arbitration figures, Lincecum set a mark among players with less than six years in the majors, topping Derek Jeter’s $18.5 million submission in 2001. And the Giants’ offer broke the 11-year-old club mark of $14.25 million offered by the Yankees to Jeter that winter.

    “I’m overall optimistic that we’ll find common ground without a hearing room,” Bobby Evans, Giants vice president of baseball operations, said before seeing Lincecum’s filing numbers. “It’s a process that begins long before today in terms of conversations about possible deals that work for both sides. That process has continued in a mutual fashion. At this point we haven’t reached a conclusion.”
    Lincecum is eligible for free agency after the 2013 season.

  16. unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    $20 mill ought to do it.

  17. snarkk said, on January 17, 2012 at 9:06 pm

    Panda inked to a 3 year deal to take him out of his arb years, but no report by Schulman on the $ in the deal. The national media (CBSsports.com) also outworked him on scooping the Lincecum arb submission $ parameters….

    • snarkk said, on January 17, 2012 at 9:08 pm

      I just saw Baggs’ info. Panda 3 years at $17.15M total. That’ll pay for a lot of Nutrisystems…

      • Big flavor said, on January 17, 2012 at 9:11 pm

        Bullshit comment, he earned this deal.

      • snarkk said, on January 17, 2012 at 9:16 pm

        Of course he earned it, the comment had zilch to say he didn’t. He’ll continuously be on a conditioning program for the foreseeable future, particularly in the offseason…

  18. snarkk said, on January 17, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    Lincecum looks like he’s not going to ink a LT deal to take him through the first coupla FA years. Whether that’s his idea or his people are floating huge numbers to make that happen that Baer doesn’t like is unclear from what I’ve read. If he wants to be a FA in two seasons, more power to him. It’s a calculated risk, and he’ll lose big time if he gets injured in the interim, though about $40 million for the two years should certainly cushion that possible loss. But, if he sails along anywhere near where he’s been, he’ll be set for a huge payday in 2014. I’m just going to enjoy watching him as long as he’s here, and whatever happens, happens. His year to year contract situation should satisfy all those folks that argue that huge LT deals for pitchers are crazy — ala Zito as Exhibit A or Kevin Brown. He’s already got a WS ring, I think he wants to be on a team that scores runs more than the money, or maybe he just wants to go home to Seattle. He’ll get the huge money wherever he goes…

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