A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Value of Major League Teams

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 29, 2012

My mind was blown this morning when I saw the Dodgers have narrowed down the list of prospective ownership groups. Bring the big wallet if you want to roll with these cats. The bids are all north of 1 billion dollars. Currently the high bid is 1.5 billion with rumors it might go as high as 1.7 BILLION. Bud Selig just creamed himself. This will directly effect the Giants some day. Any ownership group dropping 1.7 bil on their new toy won’t have a problem in the world with a 200 million dollar yearly payroll and paying off the luxury tax with change found in their couch cushions. Get ready for the *Yankees West*. As long as Coletti is GMing I’m not too worried about it, but what about when the new group hires a competent GM? It’s really hard to miss when your payroll is 200 million. Or more. Side Note: Very bummed that the big winner in all of this is going to be Frank McCourt…….

Here’s a list of the value of mlb teams according to Forbes . This list came out last March. Expect a new, adjusted one this March with the Dodgers leap frogging the Red Sox…..

1. Yankees 1.7 billion

2. Red Sox 912 mil

3. Dodgers 800 mil

4. Cubs 773 mil

5. Mets 743 mil

6. Phillies 609 mil

7. Giants 563 mil

8. Rangers 561 mil

9. Angels 554 mil

10. White Sox 526 mil

11. St Louis 518 mil

12. Twins 490 mil

13. Braves 482 mil

14. Astros 474 mil

skipping some of these, I’m logging this by manually…..

26. Royals 351 mil

27. Toronto 337 mil

28. Tampa 331 mil

29. Oakland 307 mil

30. Pirates 304 mil

_______________________________________________________________

RGOTD

It’s August 24th, 1986. The Polish Prince was dealin’ today, we steam rolled The Mets 10-1. Kruk went 20-9 this season.

56 Responses

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  1. Nipper said, on January 29, 2012 at 7:30 am

    Giants have Larry Baer, Brian Sabean, and Bruce Bochy to lead a stable, winning organization and team. The Dodgers will always be around to be a wonderful rival.

    • Big flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 8:23 am

      Nip, pouring gas on a firestorm once again!

  2. Giant Head said, on January 29, 2012 at 8:41 am

    The A’s are worth $300 mill? Aint life grand???

    I was thinking about the Theriot signing further and maybe made this point already, this may be some insurance not just to compete against Fontenot, but in case Crawford flops in Spring, maybe Theriot comes out starting at short…

    • twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:04 am

      No shit. It was all about Crawford.

    • Alleykat said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:10 am

      Yeah GH…..That wouldn’t suprise me at all. You know with Boch ,he never gives any young guy a starting job, that’s why Huff andwith of course his 11 bills will start over Belt as well as he rots on the bench, with a couple bones thrown his way per week….So Crawford already has lost his LH bats and might lose more with Theriot being a Vet.

      • twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:46 am

        Crawford was given a couple hundred AB last year and “responded” with a .204 BA. And while he’s a good defensive SS, he ain’t no Ozzie-which he’d have to be for them to carry that “bat”. They’d be insane not to have a back up plan.

  3. Macdog said, on January 29, 2012 at 8:54 am

    No doubt the Dodgers are a sleeping gia . . . er, they’re a potential monster in MLB, with one of the biggest stadiums and a humongous TV market. But they had the best everyday player and the best pitcher in the NL last year and still finished behind the Giants, so until they get their act together I’m not losing much sleep over the Bums. I just hope Cuban isn’t the one who ends up as owner, because that guy will stop at nothing to buy a championship, which he finally got for the Mavs.

    Great RGOTD. Krukow used to own the Mets. I think ’86 was the year he beat the Mets four times, not bad since the Mets lost only 50-some games that year. Although with Heep, Mazzilli and Hearn, this wasn’t exactly the “A” lineup. Hmm, I wonder why Strawberry wasn’t in the lineup?

  4. Alleykat said, on January 29, 2012 at 8:57 am

    My wallet has mothballs flying out of it…..Chris Brown makes my list as Least Favorite Giantt.And it’s not cause of his talent.The dude could play,even made an AS team.But he was such a HYPERCONDRIAC it.drove everybody nuts.Once told.the skipper Roger Craig ,
    Can’t play today skip.Craig alittle miffed asked why?
    “I slept on my bed wrong and woke up with a Sprained Eye brow” Classic!

    • twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:09 am

      “Chris Brown lived in Houston, Texas with his wife Lisa and their two children, Paris Brown and Gordon Pickett, after retirement. In 2004, Brown worked in Iraq driving an 18-wheel truck delivering diesel fuel for Halliburton. He took fire on numerous occasions, including in a convoy that was attacked on April 9, 2004, in which six Halliburton drivers and one soldier were killed and another driver kidnapped and later released.[1] By 2006, Brown had returned to the United States.”
      He died after suffering burns in a house fire.He was 45 years of age. Police have never determined if his death was a homicide, suicide, or an accident.

  5. DJLoo said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Chris Brown hit one of the longest homeruns I ever saw in person at Shea in a great Giant victory on Preakness Day 1985. Right up there with Kingman hitting the schoolbus, McCovey hitting the flagpole, and GlennAllen Hill clearing that stupid apple. That game also featured my great friend “Buzzsaw” Rodriguez choking a Met fan during the 7th inning stretch. If you messed with Loo in the ’80’s you answered to BR…

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:44 am

      If this is not POTD, I’m AWOL.

    • twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:52 am

      TORONTO—This time, there can be no doubting the seriousness of Roberto Clemente’s injuries. Roberto Clemente, one of the most talented baseball players of his time — and, until recent years, one of the most unappreciated of superstars — is dead.

      Clemente, who spent most of his 18 years as a big leaguer defending himself against insinuations that he was a hypochondriac — that he was the type of athlete who would apply a cast to a hangnail — lost his life on a mission of mercy.

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:58 am

        The Clemente biography by Pulitzer writer David Maraniss covers that issue well. Clemente was perhaps the last of true sports heroes.

    • Flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:38 am

      what ever happened to big ‘ol BR? How about a “Where is he now?” post……

  6. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Note that the value of the teams typically, if not always, rises, if I am not mistaken, in the long run (i.e., when the team is sold). This was one of the issues at the heart of the contentious strike years. The owners were always crying poverty. That might be true year-to-year, which makes most teams a stupid investment EXCEPT that the value of their initial investment always, or almost always, rises stunningly. As for the Forbes list above, I’d say the Giants were skewed high coming off the WS win. The Cardinals would be higher now, you would think, and the Mets much lower. But would YOU invest in one of those lower-tier teams? Typically, you can’t anyway. When my little brother was about 12, my older brother and I bought him one share of Anheuser-Busch for his birthday [which was yesterday] because he was a Cards fan. Got a dividend check of about 15 cents every quarter. And deposited it. But being an owner he once wrote to Auggie Busch complaining about some trade. Should’ve kept the share.

  7. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 29, 2012 at 9:52 am

    I’m surprised the Giants are that high. It has to be because they own their stadium. Billionaires’ Club, to use the Snarkk sobriquet.

    • DJLoo said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:10 am

      In the last year or two, I’ve noticed that the word “typically” has almost completely replaced “usually” in the Englsh language. When “sobriquet” replaces “nickname” I’m leaving the country…

  8. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Well, Flavor lists team values. It should be kept in mind that that’s different from profit. For instance, for 2009, those poor small market A’s made 22.1 million. The Giants made 23.5 million. The Yankees 24.9 Million. Most Profitable?Marlins- over 46 million.

  9. Alleykat said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Twin, 2things….What’s your take on Heath Hembree getting a shot in the BP this year over Runzler who just walks to many. And maybe the Giants switching Panik to 2B in the future.

  10. willieD said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:27 am

    Interesting that Brown and Straw both come up in the same thread, as both are from the same hood in south central. I read a neat book about them and others who came up from this area and the issues they faced later in life.
    Runzler has got to be one of rag’s priorities. they either have to figure out if he can fill a spot somewhere in the pen besides mop up duty, or go in another direction. Last year he was ineffective late game, just not enough command to warrant crunch time appearances, and the fielding was awful.

    • Nipper said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:39 am

      Runzler is a bad name for a pitcher.

  11. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:36 am

    First-the Chris Brown deal- the “sprained eye” story is about the 50th variation on that incident and, after 20+ years, the ONLY thing brought up about him- even though he was an extremely talented, if troubled, young player. Maybe people will remember him more fondly if they think of his time in Iraq .

    • Nipper said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:41 am

      He was important playere in that trade with San Diego.

  12. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Kat, I would think they want Hembree closing in Fresno. They’ve already discussed moving Panik to 2B. Not because of Crawford but because many think he doesn’t the arm for SS. Maybe he slept on it wrong.

  13. Flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:43 am

    Krukow was asked who he would name “Player with most unrealized talent” about a month ago and he said Chris Brown. He went on to discuss what a hypocondriac he was. Kruk was visibly disturbed about the guy and went off on him for at least a minute (radio time, that’s a long time). I’m thinking, “Gawd, Kruk is making a fool of himself, this guy died in a war.” He ends his hatchet job by saying, “He passed away while in Iraq–really a sad life” (or something very close to this).
    I sat there at a red light with my mouth open unable to believe that Krukow could sound so stupid and clueless at the same time.

  14. zumie said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:47 am

    I’m all for honoring Chris Brown’s service in Iraq, but he was a frustration to the Giants organization and fans when he played for them. The players’ frustration with him resulted in leaks to the media, which further fueled the fans’ perceptions of him. That doesn’t justify media leaks from the players. I’m generally against that kind of thing. “Leaking” generally comes off as kind of gutless, like they didn’t have the guts to confront the player directly.

  15. zumie said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:52 am

    By the way, I, in no way, honor Haliburton itself. The military-industrial complex at its most evil.

  16. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Chris served in Iraq for Halliburton annd came under fire several times, including an attack where 7 men died. However, he died in Texas from burns suffered in a housefire…
    No doubt Chris was a frustration to the team, but after 20 years and his subsequent fate, I think it’s time to forget the “slept on the eye” story as the sum and substance of his life..

  17. Alleykat said, on January 29, 2012 at 11:21 am

    I try to forget the David Green for Jack Clark trade as well.But Clark was “The Man with the Swagger”….Green was just a stiff from the Domincan who nobody knew his true age,which of course was older then the Giants thought…

  18. Blackandorange said, on January 29, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    I don’t understand how the Dodgers can be worth so much more than the Giants. Both teams own their stadiums, but Chavez Ravine is 40 years older and not nearly as nice as AT&T (not to mention AT&T sits on much more valuable land). The Giants also have a higher payroll. Obviously LA is a bigger media market, but the Bay Area isn’t exactly tiny (9 million or so). Both teams also share their market with a regional rival. I don’t understand how the market value of the two franchises can be so different. Could someone shed more light on this?

    • Flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      the cable deals that each team has is the difference (I’m guessing). Same reason the Yanks are worth so much (The Yes Network–the Yankees started and own that (or at least they own a lot of it) and the Yes Network alone is worth like a billion (or more).

    • Flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 12:24 pm

      Also, I think the Dodgers own the stadium and all the land around it

    • Blackandorange said, on January 29, 2012 at 1:30 pm

      ^My understanding is that Frank McCourt bought the surrounding land through a separate subsidiary corporation so that it could be used for office/retail/housing development in the future (unrelated to any actual baseball stuff). Would that still be included as part of the franchise value if it’s basically a separate business venture?

      The Yankee’s high value makes sense because they have a brand-new stadium and their own network, but the Dodgers only have a broadcast deal with Fox Sports (similar to the Giants deal with Comcast).

      Is there something I’m missing here? How can the dodgers possibly be worth over a billion dollars? I don’t get it.

      • Big flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 1:57 pm

        Big diff between Fox and Comcast

      • Big flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 2:16 pm

        But truth is, I dont fucking know either

  19. Alleykat said, on January 29, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    10 Giants I would of rooted for if they were alive today, just for their cool and crazy names….
    Ace Adams
    Dasher Troy
    Hooks Wiltse
    Stump Wiedman
    Cannonball Titcomb
    Blondy Ryan
    Slim Sailee
    Slick Castleman
    Bumpus Jones
    Clyde Kluttz..my personal favorite
    Just a couple “Live Giants”
    Champ Summers
    Brandon Puffer….No relation to Timmeh..

    Slick Castleman

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on January 29, 2012 at 7:25 pm

      you can’t make this stuff up, can you?

      • Alleykat said, on January 29, 2012 at 8:17 pm

        No wish I could Pawlie.These guys mostly played in the late 1800 early 1900 for the NY Giants..Googled alltime Giant players who played for the clubs.

  20. Macdog said, on January 29, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Came across this story through Facebook, it’s an interview with Giants’ catching prospect Mike Murray, who played HS ball in Jersey and went to Wake Forest. I don’t know if he’ll make it to the Bigs, but as far as hitting goes, he seems to know what he’s doing.

    http://mlbreports.com/2012/01/29/murray-interview/

    • Alleykat said, on January 29, 2012 at 1:59 pm

      Nice article Mac Dog…..Kid has the right Moxie and attitude.Of course add him to the never ending list of Giant 1B/C of the future.

  21. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    So now there are too many?

  22. PawlieKokonuts said, on January 29, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    The feckin top 5 list keeps haunting me. Oddly, I don’t recall seeing Buster Posey on anyone’s list. How quick they forget. Or Gary Lavelle. Or Randy Moffitt. Or Mike McCormick. Or Jackie Brandt. or Ruben Gomez. Or Paul Giel. Or Joey Amalfitano. Or Ozzie Virgil. Or Andre Rodgers. Or Tito Fuentes. Or Danny O’Connell. Or Ed Bressoud. Or Hobie Landrith. Or Mike Ivie. Or Tom O’Malley. Or Jack Sanford. Or Billy Pierce. Or Don Taussig. I tellya, it haunts me.

    • zumie said, on January 29, 2012 at 6:27 pm

      He’s on my list. I posted mine late at night, which is probably why you missed it.
      1. Bobby Bonds
      2. Tim Lincecum
      3. Will Clark
      4. Matt Cain
      5. Buster Posey

    • twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 6:57 pm

      Probably because of Flavor’s list, most people thought mostly of past players. I like that some not-so-greats get recognized, they make up the fabric of the game. Maybe you’re joking, but your list might be the best ,Pawlie..

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on January 29, 2012 at 7:24 pm

        thanks, Twin; no doubt, some of it was strutting my scrapbook-based knowledge of obscure players, but I concur that one need not have been a star to qualify; and I’m always with you on how dear to our hearts Vungo was/is. (So why not on my first list?). IT HAUNTS ME. funny things about the list haunt me. As I’ve posted here long ago and more than once, fond memories are tricky. I will never forget Larry Herndon running in from the outfield covering third or participating in a rundown. whatever it was, he was there by sheer rookie elan. Maybe The Book said he was wrong, but who cares? And what about the two or three astounding catches that Rajai Davis made and his running feats? One catch was against the Pirates…

      • twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 11:20 pm

        Couldn’t sleep, Pawlie. Getting up to read your posts is a pleasure. Paul Giel, as you know, was one of the great athletes in Minnesota history, stirred up a lot of memories. As did many of the names on your list.
        I’ll try to sleep again, just can’t get that insanely low evaluation of the Giants worth out of my head. Somehow, as with everything, Baer must be behind it. ‘night..

  23. snarkk said, on January 29, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    I think the Giants value per Forbes is too low. It may be net of stadium debt, which if so, is not the proper way to think of market value, i.e, what somebody would pay for the organization. I think the entire Giants organization has a market value of well north of $600M, likely even over $700M. The stadium and land alone are north of $300M, and that doesn’t even include the value of the parking lot across the street, which is worth millions, since it may be the site of the future Warriors arena. The Giants cash flow has to be quite strong, when you consider Spring Training income and player contracts’ depreciation, which you do when valuing any business. If you assume just a free cash flow of $40M, which I think is way low, and a cap rate of 12%, which to me is not far off in this case, that adds another $333M to the mix, totaling about $633M, let’s say $650M. I think that number is very solid, and low, as it excludes the parking lot value, and the value of the Scottsdale complex. Compare this. Lacob bought the Warriors over a year ago for $450M. That includes NO owned stadium, only a 5 year or so leasehold interest in Oracle arena, and not even near the TV and radio deals the Giants have. Add $300M+ for ATT Park to that, and you already get $750M, excluding the values of the ATT parking lot and the Scottsdale complex. The Giants partnership has/had to buy out BowTie on his exit, and he supposedly had well in excess of 10% of the team. Put it this way, the partnership has or had to come up with a huge chunk of cash to pay him off. If the Giants put the organization up for sale tomorrow, would the billionaires club sell it for $563M to Cuban? NO FREAKIN’ WAY. Add another $200M to that, and maybe you’re getting “in the ballpark”…

  24. zumie said, on January 29, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    The Pro Bowl is an embarrassment of half-hearted effort; but a great basketball game going on between Dallas and San Antonio.

  25. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    Oddly, Forbes neglected to run their numbers by Snarkk.

    • snarkk said, on January 29, 2012 at 6:36 pm

      Because they’re wrong. Way wrong. The bids coming in are well over a billion for the Dodgers. Forbes says a year ago the Dodgers were worth $800M. McCourt drove the team into the toilet last season, and now the team is worth well over $300M more that Forbes said a year ago? Forbes is full of crap. I deal with finance and valuation all the time on professional level. The Giants are worth far, far more than $563M…

      • Flavor said, on January 29, 2012 at 8:03 pm

        you’ve made a very compelling argument that the values are too low. I’m tepidly on board. But since when has ANY team sold for 1.5 or 1.7 billion? Teams get bought and sold all the time across all the major sports. They go 400-500-600 million maybe. Now we are looking at 1.5 billion? None of it makes any sense to me……

      • twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 10:50 pm

        Forbes just may have access to more data than the Snarkker. But really, don’t you think the Snarkkmeister owes it to sports fans everywhere to share the complete figures he has used to arrive at this compelling argument that challanges those of this rag?

  26. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    I said they neglected to check with you on this. It’s too bad you can’t reveal your true idenity so that we can confront that worthless rag with your findings…

  27. twinfan1 said, on January 29, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Here’s a sample of a man who did his homework. You may agree or disagree with Smith and/or Forbes but the arguments are a tad more compelling than idle boasts from the Snarkkenstein..
    http://economics.about.com/library/weekly/aa043004g.htm


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