A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

How Deep Are the Giants? *Skin Deep* at least According to Jenkins

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on March 7, 2012

Jenkins wrote an article at the Chron today that suggested the team lacked depth and that it was *shallow*. He called the team a “fragile product” and included a quote from a major league scout who said “when it gets late…..I’m not sure the Giants scare anybody.” He also said “the Giants bench would be one of the weakest in the league” and that another Freddy Sanchez set back would *be devastating at second base*. He spent a few paragraphs worrying about Zito. There were other quotes but you get the point…

I’ve already blogged recently about my feelings about Freddy Sanchez—there would be nothing *devastating* about replacing him with Theriot (and some Fontenot). It would be a mild drop off at worst. And in some cases, it would improve the position since Theriot can steal you a bag and both players are healthy enough to play every day and throw a baseball without risk of their arms falling off. You can’t say the same for Freddy, at least at this point in his career……

Regarding the bench: It does look a little light, especially late in a game. But that is an area you could easily improve by sending Nate BACK to the bench and having Belt start. He’s far more effective coming off the bench, both as a pinch hitter and a late inning defensive replacement.

Another way to improve the bench with a *never gonna happen* idea: Have Freddy Sanchez come off the bench and start Theriot at 2nd base. Freddy can hit right now, his problem is, he can’t throw. I am 98.47% convinced that even if he gets healthy enough to play 2nd every day, at some point he’s going to re-injure himself. I also think he’s going to be a general liability in the field because he can’t throw. Having him come off the bench as a pinch hitter would preserve his fragile body and give us a good bat to use late in the game…..

But I get that the likelihood of that happening is just about zero……

Now, back to Nate. If he stays the starter I’m about 83.67% sure that the Giants will send Belt down to Fresno to get regular at bats. Unless Huff really implodes this Spring I see the Giants giving him the starting 1-bag job to open the season (and I disagree that there is any REAL competition going on at first base. The Giants are saying there is, but something polarizing would have to happen for their to be a change on opening day– ie, Belt has a monster Spring and Huff has a terrible one)…So, if all that goes down the way I suspect it will, then yes, you are now probably are talking about a weak bench made up of guys like Blanco, Burriss, Pill (pure conjecture that he would be a power hitting clutch pinch hitter) etc. All I’m saying is that it doesn’t NEED to go down like that if you do the Belt start/Nate bench thing (or the shocking consideration of sending Freddy to the bench)….

Jenkins spent the last third of his article discussing Zito. He didn’t really slam him, he just described him as who he is and seemed to infer that this was another *shallow* part of the team—but that is really a misguided point since almost all 5th starters are liabilities. We more than make up for our 5th guy with our 1-4……

I think the Giants can still get by with a weak bench. Remember who are designated hitter was in the World Series vs the Angels? It was Shingo. So we had a weak bench that year and still made the World Series…..

What I don’t think we can get by with is an injury to Pablo or Posey–certainly both going down would be devastating since we have nothing behind them at their respective positions. But now I’m just worrying about bad luck and that’s not something anyone should spend much time worrying about. If it happens, THEN I’ll worry about it.

Bottom line: I just don’t think the Giants are as *shallow* as Jenkins is suggesting they are………

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  1. willieD said, on March 7, 2012 at 7:18 am

    well, juan uribe and andres torres weren’t too highly thought of when SF gave them a shot, either. You don’t need 12 guys that can hit, just get enough out of the 8 that are in the starting LU given SF pitching staff.
    I don’t share the luv of Theriot, but if you get enough out of the “something to prove” guys—i’m not a fluke melk/last year was a fluke pagan and huff, combined with panda posey belt FS, then the bench is kind of a moot point. As Twin said, speed and D will help more in long run.
    AZ was pretty lucky to get a good couple months out of Hill that likely won’t happen again, and a full season of Golds/Kubel might not be more like what we get out of Nate–eventually they come back to earth and you realize why they aren’t full time players. See what they get out of their bench, and pen this year.
    I also think Cahill is going to miss pitching half year in the mausoleum, with all that foul territory and dead night time air on fly balls to the OF. The ones that landed in A’s OF glove will wind up in the pool in the desert.

  2. Bozo said, on March 7, 2012 at 7:20 am

    The feeling I get about Franchez is he’s kinda a spark for the other guys. 2010 was a great year for Torres and he seemed to get fired up with the little guy hitting behind him (again, just my gut feeling), Jenkins isn’t the first one to mention how much of a loss he was or would be. So maybe there is something about the guy we don’t see in the box scores, the dude was a batting champ so I suspect he knows a thing about hitting. I don’t know any of this for a fact so go ahead and rip me a new one if you want, but if he can make the throws I would prefer he was out there until the wheels came off (if/when he gets hurt again) .

    • Nipper said, on March 7, 2012 at 7:27 am

      Bozo right again!

  3. willieD said, on March 7, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Few days ago there were some wOBA numbers up here on 2b guys, so I looked up numbers on FG for last two years. FS were .327 and .315, with Theriot at .286 and .292. FS OPS numbers .730 ish last couple, Theriot at .630/.660. t has hit 3 HRs in his last 1100 ABs—if this guy has to play anywhere, SF offense suffers, imo. T was actually a minus WAR guy in 2010, and is not a good SS.
    Interestingly enough, couple days ago FG did a power ranking on 2b, and while SF was near the bottom (along with Dodgers and Pads), AZ wasn’t much better. If FS can handle being out there most of the year, SF should be OK, though they might have to hit the “panik button” at some point in near future.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 9:25 am

      Didn’t see wOBA numbers right handed, but Theriot is a career .300 hitter against lefties, over .300 last year as well. His OBP is over .350 from that side, and his OPS is .775. He absolutely has to play SS against LHers regardless of defense. If you don’t pay attention to splits, you just don’t get the full story.

  4. snarkk said, on March 7, 2012 at 8:57 am

    I would not at all be surprised to see Franchez start the season on the DL. Also, Posey’s situation is clearly in flux. He just started running bases, fer Kreissakes. I hope Sanchez keeps hitting like a monster and forces himself onto the roster as the backup C. I have a feeling Buster is not going to catch more than about 110 games, and may skip a lot of ’em early in the season with a day on day off kind of thing as they feel around for how his ankle is going to react…

  5. twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 9:14 am

    Belt is not going back down, he will be the first baseman. The battle is between Nate and Huff ( Aubrey would play LF). The other battle is between Pill and one of the speed guys, with Pill having the early advantage but going down soon.
    But where Bochy has to make his stand is with Hector- we may be looking at a kid who will only hit .250 or so up here but that’s 50 more than either of the incumbent backups will. Perhaps another option is moving Nate for a catcher who can hit a lick..they can’t survive with 3 sure outs in the LU again.
    Fruckie? He had his best year since 2007 in 2010 and actually improved on his infamously horrrible pitch selection , and his defense was stellar.I think we should remember that year, I just don’t see him being more than adequate if he even makes it back. We let him go because he didn’t have a position but I’d take Matt Downs in a nanosecond right now..

    • big flavor said, on March 7, 2012 at 10:03 am

      well, if it goes down like that (Belt at first and Nate and Huff are battling for an OF spot) I will give you huge props because that’s not what the Giants are saying is going on. Bochy has stated the OF is set with Pagan/Melk/Nate and that there is a battle at first base. As I said, I don’t think the Giants are being honest about this *first base battle* but maybe there is actually one going one there. We’ll see.
      Personally, I’ll be shocked if Huff starts in the OF on opening day. I am almost certain he’ll be at first base…..

      • twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 10:20 am

        What I’ve seen is that Nate has the job to lose, not that it’s his regardless. Maybe Huff will start at 1B, then Belt starts in left when Nate shows he’s the old Nate. The main point is not where Huff and Belt start, just that I think they both *will* start.
        A guy would go broke real fucking fast if he bet on the truth on what any manager says for public consumption. But I will say this- if Belt is not in the opening day LU, you can add my disapproval of Bochy’s decision to that list you seem to have of when this homie calls him out.

  6. Kevin said, on March 7, 2012 at 9:19 am

    I am not worried about any of the Giants at this point, well maybe a little bit about Posey, that ankle…anyway, until ST progresses there isn’t enough out there to judge what the Giants have and don’t have. And even then Sanchez, Posey, etc aren’t going all out for ST. I think until May 1 is when we will know what the Giants have and have not. My biggest beef is Zito is still a starter!! Granted #5 but still. I think he belongs in the pen, that way the Giants don’t have to make up some injury excuse and put him on the DL. But I doubt Bochy would ever consider such a thing. With that said, I think Zito is lucky to go .500 this year. Of course with the Giants new players we just don’t know what kind of run support the pitching staff is going to get. If this offense can generate 3-4 runs instead of the 1-2 from last year that would be huge.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 9:27 am

      They were bad but not that bad, Kevin. They averaged 3.5 RPG…

    • snarkk said, on March 7, 2012 at 9:58 am

      Zito can’t be a Pen guy. Pen guy’s generally need stuff to be effective. Plus, the Zitman takes forever to warm up — not good for a Pen guy. Anyway, Mota’s the designated long man…

    • Alleykat said, on March 7, 2012 at 1:30 pm

      No problem with a Zito.start Kevin, just.remember every 5th night is a 5th of your favorite spirits!

  7. unca_chuck said, on March 7, 2012 at 10:09 am

    When will the Zito mystery injury occur?

    I’d say the before/after would be somewhere around March 25th.

  8. unca_chuck said, on March 7, 2012 at 10:12 am

    The Giants are maybe a bit thin. As are half the the other teams out there.

    If they stay relatively injury free, they should be fine. If not, oh well. They’ll have to likely do things they don’t want to. Meaning trade a starter. Or just ride out the season and hope the unknowns come up and produce.

    • St said, on March 7, 2012 at 10:32 am

      As in starting pitching? Pretty damn thin there.

  9. twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Man, when Zitboy throws 82 and he’s getting praise, this staff is in a world of hurt. It’s hard to imagine who the fuck they were counting on to replace that evil headcase…the headcase being Dirty Sanchez

    • ewisco said, on March 7, 2012 at 12:34 pm

      The radar gun they were using also had Hembree in the low 90’s so they’re thinking the gun was a little slow.

  10. snarkk said, on March 7, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Every ST they come up with a positive spin on Zito. This time he spent the offseason bulking up and changing the windup under the tutelage of Tom House. At least he’s making an effort to stop the bleeding. I just don’t see how anyone with a lick of baseball sense can hope a guy who’s sucked for 5 years will suddenly pull out of the nosedive. Maybe Vogelsong has some extra komeback karma to give him…

  11. dirtnrocksnomo said, on March 7, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Pagan and Cabrera are dynamic additions to the outfield and I think they are generally overlooked in analysis of SF and their approach to 2012. Sanchez is going to go down at some point but pieces are in place to fill the gap. I don’t know how Belt can be overlooked by management. Other than Posey’s health I think he is the X factor to the season. If Posey isn’t 100% when they break camp how about signing Pudge Rodriguez with Hector Sanchez backing up?

    • twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 11:45 am

      They’re hoping Pagan rebounds and Cabrera shows last year was not a career year. Projections from James and Craig’s fave Shandler have both being adequate at best. If they fool the experts, we’re laughing. If merely adequate is what we get, it’s on our power guys- Pablo, Belt, Huff, and we hope Buster. SS, just end the misery and let Panik learn on the job. Same with Culberson, although I’d see how Gillaspie looks with a 2B glove. By midseason, Brown takes over in CF, which should be about the time Pagan has his 6th error and 5th pout…

  12. Vince Cestone said, on March 7, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Jenkins severely underestimated this year’s team and he will be quite surprise. Like dirtrocksnomo said, they are dynamic players who WILL make a difference and WILL give the Giants energy. This year’s offense is definitely better than last year’s and should prove suffice in the Giants’ bid to win the NL West. They now have a good top of the order, three switch-hitters in fact.

  13. DJLoo said, on March 7, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Snark’s right about Zito. Every year it’s some dopey new innovation. Next year he’s gonna try shitting through his cock.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 4:36 pm

      Anyone who has ever paid attention is right about Zito. And I am totally confident that I am the only poster here who has NEVER thought he was back, would be back, or should be wanted back. He is fucking evil and I’ve said it for five years. The only worse than a shitty outing for Zito is a good one, as it dooms us to even more of his devil ways…

    • Bozo said, on March 7, 2012 at 5:03 pm

      Being able to shit through your cock and win twenty is a good thing. Being able to shit through your cock and lose twenty, not so good.

      • Flavor said, on March 7, 2012 at 5:56 pm

        being able to shit through your cock and performing this unusual feat somewhere in a Castro movie theater on a Friday night is a freaking guaranteed income producer………

  14. snarkk said, on March 7, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    Nobody’s yet been proved wrong arguing the worst about Zitoid’s performance and where he’s headed. I do claim the longest, best and most consistent ripping of Rohand. So far for Miami, he’s Oh for 3, with one K. Sounds about right…

    • snarkk said, on March 7, 2012 at 5:56 pm

      I know BF, I said I wouldn’t follow him in Miami.
      I feel ashamed. I may need to spend time in a Rohand rehab clinic…

    • Flavor said, on March 7, 2012 at 5:57 pm

      actually, 0-3 with 3 lame, weak ground out rollovers to third base is what sounds exactly right……..

    • twinfan1 said, on March 7, 2012 at 6:31 pm

      You definitely can claim the Rohand prize.

  15. zumie said, on March 7, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    Keeping Whitey or Stew ONLY makes sense if the Giants are planning to bring H. Sanchez up in a couple of months as the back-up. It HAS to be that, right???

  16. Flavor said, on March 7, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Chuck, what’s that you say? OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ***********NEW POST++++++++++++++++NEW POST**************NEW POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. unca_chuck said, on March 7, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    Does bold font scare you, Flav?


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