A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Mendoza Would Fit Right in This Year……..

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on April 21, 2012

As everyone knows, The Mendoza Line is used as the definition of incompetent hitting. Mario Mendoza, a shortstop for 9 years in the major leagues, had a career batting average of .215. Today, the term *The Mendoza Line* refers to a batting average under .200. I bet that somewhere, Big Mario is doing a slow burn about getting cheated out of those precious .15 batting points….

But whatever, if you’re hitting below .200 you are degraded and embarrassed with comments like, “Dude, Crawford is hitting below The Mendoza Line.” Ouch. And it doesn’t really even matter if you’re hitting above .200 because if you’re close to it you get comments like, “My God Crawford is a bad hitter. He’s hitting .205. He’s almost below The Mendoza Line!!! Bahahahahahaha!!!!!!”

The horror…..

As an owner of several (currently under performing) fantasy teams I keep track of pretty much every hitter in baseball. And what I’ve been struck by this season is how many players seem to be hitting under the dreaded Mendoza Line. I hadn’t bothered to confirm if it’s more or less than normal until this morning. And I don’t even know what a *normal* number of Mendoza Line batters is anyway. But even without a frame of reference, this list surprised me:

I had to shrink the page down to 90% just so I could capture the entire list with my trusty *snipping tool*. Take a look at that list. That is some serious collective failure. And most of those guys aren’t within a country mile of the Mendoza Line. They’re all looking up at Brandon Belt (currently hitting .200) and saying, “Man, that dude might be saddled with a fat wife but check out that batting average! Some day, I hope that’s me…”

I decided to see how many Mendoza Line Transgressors there were last season and I couldn’t snip and paste that list into this thread because there was no such list to snip and paste. The lowest batting average in the major leagues last year was Vernon Wells at .218. Of course, they only listed players with a qualified number of at bats. But my first list was also drawn from those who qualified this year.

So then I decided to look at team batting averages. I assumed that no collective TEAM could be batting under .200 so I decided to just look at how many teams are batting under .240 this year. Here they are:

Man, 10 teams? And three of them are batting under Mario’s actual career batting line? What is going on here?

For a point of reference, I checked how this compared to 2011. Two teams batted under .240 for the year: San Diego at .237 and the Mariners at .233. I’m assuming you are all as shocked as I was to not see the Giants on that list……

In 2010, 1 team hit under .240: Again, the hapless Mariners. They were a seaworthy bunch, but they couldn’t hit a lick. 🙂

In 2009, no team hit under .240….

And yet in 2012, there are 10 teams hitting under .240. What gives? I’d love to get to the end of this thread with some plausible theories as to why the hitters are so collectively bad this year but I don’t have any. And that’s where you people come in as I had the baton off to you in 3….2…..1

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  1. snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Is Huff still playing for SF?

  2. DJLoo said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    A second rate little leaguer would’ve covered second base…

  3. Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Huff broke to first on that play. And now we lose it on Posey getting busted up that causes a wild throw.
    Only fitting.

  4. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    I can understand Huff not being able to turn the DP, that’s technique. But to not even go to 2nd to receive a throw? Come on.

  5. zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Once again we are reminded that the catcher is a completely open target, with no no rules at all regarding contact against the catcher.

  6. Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Everything else aside, we committed three more errors. It’s becoming a habit.

  7. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Bummer about the ending of that game. But I’m still just in awe of how stupid Aubry Huff is. He did understand he was playing 2nd base, right? Jesus, breaking for first base? It’s impossible to consider how Huff could have such an unreal brain fart on that play….

  8. Wilcojoe said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Unfuckingbelievable…Huff should be DFA’d immediately…This teams defense is going to be its demise.

  9. Bozo said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Well that was one weird ass game. I think that might qualify as epic in the weird ass game book.

  10. snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    This game was a total clusterfuck, other than Voggy throwing pretty darn well.
    Huff has his head up his ass, seriously. His tenure here should be hanging by a thread.
    A Babe Ruth league player would know to break to second, Huff breaks to first?
    And there are serious issues with this defense….

  11. Wilcojoe said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Arias should be up here ASAP…I think Pill could be sent down unless they decide to send down Otero.

    • snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:15 pm

      They need all the Pen arms they can get, they’ve burned through a few the last two games. But, Arias could be possible soon. The defensive meltdown (other than Huff’s last one) is astonishing….

  12. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Honestly, I’m even trying to figure out how Bochy came up with *Huff to 2nd*. Wouldn’t Belt, a younger, hopefully smarter, better athlete, have been a better choice?

    • zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:21 pm

      Posey was another option, but probably the thought of a baserunner rolling up Posey’s leg ruled that out.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:21 pm

      Greg Papa speculated keeping Hector in to C and moving Buster to 2B.
      Theriot being sick really hurt the club.

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 5:47 pm

      Bochy disagrees with you.

  13. snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    What is wrong with Theriot, anyway?…

  14. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    the ONLY thing that makes sense is that Huff wasn’t totally into the game mentally at that point. He went into *react mode*. Because if he was INTO this game, his FIRST FUCKING THOUGHT (or at least one of 2 or 3) should be “ground ball to short I go to 2nd”.
    It’s also entirely possible that he’s an imbecile…….

    • snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:29 pm

      BF, there is NO excuse for that play, other than he had his head up his ass. Seriously.
      If you’re a 34 whatever year old MLB player, regardless of where you normally have played, you MUST know what to at least TRY to do in that situation.
      To me, and I count myself as a real fan of Huff in the past, that was the last straw for this dude. If he doesn’t stage a miracle offensive comeback ASAP, he needs to be outta here…

      • Nipper said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:37 pm

        A Huff’in shame!

  15. PGrove said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Arias is having trouble fielding at Fresno so far. Maybe he’s just not focused, eh? Career minor numbers at SS are pretty bad. He’s been used a lot more at 2b.

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:27 pm

      At least he can hit, and despite the company line, Crawford isn’t playing all that well either.

  16. gianthead said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    What the fuck was that for an ending??? How is that not interference on Harrison for kicking Posey???? With his right ankle planted, we are lucky that did not end up with an injured ankle there. I dont care if you can try take out a middle infielder trying to break up a double play, but once a runner is forced out at home with a catcher totally exposed with his back to the runner, how can you take out a catcher’s leg or ankle…bullshit!!

    If Posey was two feet in front of the plate, are you allowed to still take him out??? The Giants should file a protest with the league to protect Posey.

    Am I mistaken, but wasn’t Pill still available to play second instead of Huff? That runner was also out at first, we should have been out of the inning…

    • zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:51 pm

      The “old school” response towards Hairston would be that tomorrow he takes a pitch in the ribs.

      • gianthead said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:54 pm

        totally, but a-hole is probably not getting a start, but I am sure there are Giants looking at that play and taking a mental note for the next time they cross paths…what a way to get me pissed before the Sharks even start to choke their game tonight…

    • zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 1:54 pm

      “If Posey was two feet in front of the plate, are you allowed to still take him out???”

      The answer is yes. It’s ridiculous and dangerous to have no rules regarding any of this stuff at homeplate, given what we know now about concussions, and the size and speed of the players, etc.

      • gianthead said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:03 pm

        I was not in favor of changing the rules for plays at the plate, but that was not even a play at the plate…

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:15 pm

        Kuip said on the postgame that if H Jr. didn’t attempt that hook slide that he would of had some splainin’ to do. The radio guys didn’t have a problem with the slide and neither did I.

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:11 pm

      Pill was not available- he had been announced as a pinch hitter, then replaced by Belt. That put him out of the game.

  17. gianthead said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    another thing pissing me off is my starting fantasty pitchers keep getting screwed out of wins with blwn frickin saves…Lidge blowing it for Strasburg today….and I had Voggy going as well. I thought he was going to pull out a win as well until the 7th:(

  18. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Huff “cratered” ( just for you Loo) completely in the last week. Up should be Arias and Kieschnick, DFA Huff and option Crawford. I’m presuming that Theriot doesn’t need to be DL’ed.

    • zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:21 pm

      It’s doubtful they would release Huff this early, the big contract and all. It may be just a coincidence that Mr. Bow Tie was forced out a few weeks after Rowand was released. Or maybe not a coincidence.

      • snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:27 pm

        Then he needs to go down with an “injury”.
        Bad ABs, bad defense, head up his ass, what else is left?
        Right now, he isn’t within an area code of helping this club in any meaningful way…

      • zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:31 pm

        He’s forever one of the many heroes of 2010, but he seems done as a ballplayer. The Giants have been very patient waiting for him to bounce back for over a year now, and it’s just not happening.

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:35 pm

        Well, that settles it. It was a coincidence or it wasn’t a coincidence..I woiuldn’t have expected they’d release him this early either, but he’s been so dreadful in every way this last week that I wouldn’t rule it out now. He might have some takers in trade if we ate at least half his contract

  19. Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Snakes getting hit with more injuries — placed Daniel Hudson of the 15-Day with rt. shoulder impingement.
    It’s getting easier for the Dodgers each and every day.

    • zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:32 pm

      The Dodgers have played a fluff schedule so far. The only good team they’ve played is the Brewers, and they lost two of three to the Brewers. We don’t know yet how good the Dodgers are.

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:39 pm

      The Menace is on his Dodger schtick only because he knows how annoying it is for Giants’ fans.

  20. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    I’m guessing that Pilates ad deal that Huff was looking to score took a pretty big hit today

    • snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:45 pm

      Maybe there’s an opening for the Marlboro Man…

  21. stixwiz said, on April 21, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    This loss is clearly on Bochy. He started Huff again and in the Enforcer role-five hole. Though there was the excuse of a depleted bullpen (except for a fresh Otero) the situation in the top of the seventh with a runner in scoring position, two outs and a tie score AND with recently reinstated Vogelsong at 95 pitches, clearly called for a pinch hitter. If any apologist wants to argue, i’ll be glad to oblige. Only possible excuse for Bruce is he’s been ordered, for the reason of financial considerations and some bits of nostalgia, to play the man who was almost unarguably the worst 1B in the Majors last year. But still no solid reason not to p.h. in the 7th.

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:08 pm

      Referring to anyone who supports Bochy’s decisoion as an “apologist” is nonsense. I think an explaination of your ever increasing animus toward Bochy is more appropriate, Stix.

    • snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:22 pm

      Whoa, that’s some Boch vituperation there. I wouldn’t go as far as you, but I like the passion.
      Plenty to question Bochy on regarding many moves today, leaving Voggy in there just one. He was at 95 pitches, only his second season start, and he’d been throwing long counts the last inning. Certainly reasonable to have PH in for him in a close game. Other side is they’re down a position player with Theriot out, Voggy hits a little, and the Pen was used a lot the night before, he probably figured he could possibly get another inning out of Voggy. My main beef with him was not walking the bases loaded with Pelfrey on deck to set up the DP and make the Mets take Pelfrey out of the game, since he was dealing on the Giants. That made no sense, and of course, then you get the hit knocking in two runs…

  22. Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Phillip Humber is riding Pleasantly Perfect for the ChiSox today up at Emerald Downs.
    He just passed the 7F pole. Another 1/4 mile to go.

  23. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    The loss was on the players… as pointed out- it was a tie game, two out, Vogelsong pitching well ( 95 pitches is NOTHING), he’s a good hitter. It clearly did not call for a pinch hitter-and no one even mentioned it until Vogelsong gave up runs in the bottom of the inning. Typical blogsight.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:09 pm

      It was questioned by every single Comcast guy.Marty Lurie thought it was the right mice, at the time, to leave Voggy in to save the taxed bullpen. LQTM.

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:13 pm

        And they were wrong. Those guys aren’t immune to bloggersight. If Vogelsong hadn’t given up the runs in the bottom of the inning- some, but only a very few, would have questioned it all.

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:16 pm

        Marty just said it again. Lurie is parroting my reasoning. Not sure that’s the best thing in the world.

  24. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    And Twin, enough with the tired “none of the bloggers voiced their displeasure until AFTER the decision.” it’s nearly impossible to enter a dissenting opinion before the play is played out. Personally, I was in the other room when it happened. I would have questioned the decision at the time but wouldn’t have tried to blog my opinion before Voggy batted. Not enough time.

    • snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:26 pm

      Thank you. Baseball isn’t baseball without second guessing the manager or the GM. Before twittershit and blogging, people second guessed the fucking day after, let alone a shocking 10 minutes later after you finish your beer or finish taking a dump. We can’t second guess without hitting the disagree button immediately?

  25. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Pay attention: I’m not talking about just before or after the decision- it wasn’t mentioned until the bopttom of the inning after Vogelsong gave up runs. I think even the slowest bitcher had ample time to voice their displeasure before that.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:22 pm

      I made my comment in between innings.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:23 pm

      No you pay attention: no one here is subject to some random cut off time that you set for anyone here to have an opinion that isn’t valid and respected. Im trying to squeeze time into my busy day to watch a fucking baseball gm and I’m not worrying about missing a cut off time that you arbitrarily set to voice my opinions. No one here has to do that.

  26. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Top of 7th- Vogelsong strikes out.
    Bottom of 7th:
    Bay Singles
    Duda walks
    Thole out on sac bunt

    Tejada doubles, scoring two
    Bitching about not hitting for Vogelsong commences . Zumie at (12:18)

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:31 pm

      Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 12:03 pm

      I’m gonna say if we didn’t have this “Closer by Committee” and Bochy had to use ‘em all last night, he woulda PH for Vogey there. Another case in point when we miss Wilson.

      You should know better. I’m the first one to always bitch.

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:34 pm

        That’s faulty conjecture on why he didn’t PH for Vogelsong. Hardly the same as saying he was wrong not to.

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:45 pm

        Not only is it beneath you do admit you were wrong about the chronology of my comment regarding Bochy’s non-decision to PH, but by spinning it as “conjecture” you can’t even admit I was bitching about it. Sad.

  27. Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    PERFECT GAME!!! But I want to see that check swing again. That ball was 2 1/2 ft outside.
    But given the circumstances I would have rung him up too.

    • snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:29 pm

      Hey, the umps royally F’d up that Galarraga Pfect game.
      No way they’re blowing this one…

  28. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    I’m pointing out a perfectly valid issue- that the bitchers waited until Vogelsong gave up runs until they said anything about it. The reason doesn’t have shit to do with their busy busy days- they woern’t thinking the decision was wrong until Vogelsong gave up the runs.
    If Dennis is the only one to bitch earlier, it’s because he bitches about everything ferchrissakes..

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:38 pm

      No. Me having an opinion about a decision and not blogging about it doesnt invalidate the opinion. If I voice it later, so be it. It’s only an issue if I have the opinion and then change it later based on the outcome. Which I didn’t do and I don’t do. The Flap vets have earned the credit to voice their opinions about what they thought should have happened even after the outcome. You don’t post all your opinions prior to the outcomes do you? No, you just wait till others do and then hammer them on it as if the outcome was the sole decider of their opinion pre-outcome. Fuck that.

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:46 pm

        Your take is reasonable if it was just after Vogelsong struck out. It has no validity at all when the first comments are only after he gives up runs later. Everyone has availed themselves of Blog Potato Hindsight, including me. I’s wrongo and when it’s at blatant as this it should be pointed out.

      • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:59 pm

        It absolutely has validity as long as the blogger isn’t changing his opinion based on the outcome. As I have said, a Flap vet has earned benefit of the doubt here. And I am asking you, and anyone else who might do it, to knock off the criticism of a blogger just because they failed to get their opinion in before the outcome. You constantly discrediting them inhibits potential posts (something I’m looking to encourage, not inhibit)…

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:03 pm

        Whatever. As I say below below, awesome call by Loo on Huff. That man is uncanny.

  29. snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    I think the closer by committee will be a fairly short deal. Casilla gave up a lucky hit in the hole yesterday, then with 3 lefties due up, Bochy panicked and pulled him to play the lefty on lefty thing. If he’s a closer candidate, let him close or phucking phail at least a little. If you play the lefty right thing on every batter in the 8th and 9th in every close game you’ll run out of arms pretty quick, let alone tax the shit out of all the relievers getting warm every night. They’ll get a closer via trade or bring Hembree up by end of May. Wilson’s absence is already is F’ing things up with the Pen…

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:05 pm

      And if they have to play a DH on Monday because of tomorrow’s rain, they’re going to need another starter for Friday. I’d imagine Bochy would start Mota and make it a “pen game.” Unless of course they call up a SP and DFA Huff.

      • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:07 pm

        They would play the double header (or the single gm) on July 2nd in NY on both team’s off day before the Giants play the Nats.

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:13 pm

        The doubleheader would be Monday, weather permitting. July 2 is a make up date only if can’t get all 4 in. If they’re able to play a DH Monday, they will.

  30. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    I agree, *in hindsight*, that he pulled Casilla too quickly. Also too quick is the panty wringing about how much Wilson is missed. And no one supported Wilson more than I have. I think I’d give it all a little longer before freaking out.
    See, one should at least acknowdge their opinion has been influenced by the outcome. What one *would* have

    said is not relevant. ” Hey, I called it right away, ask Zeke” doesn’t cut it. BTW, awesome call at 1137 Loo. How do you do it?

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:11 pm

      The Loo thing was a joke. And you’re missing the point. What I’m saying is that I trust a Flap vet, if they say they thought it before the outcome then so be it. If I have to start worrying about dumbasses who change their opinion based on the outcome and then come to my blog to crow about it to earn false praise, well, that’s just not something I’m gonna spend any time worrying about.

  31. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    “The Loo thing was a joke” I know that. Nice thing to do for your pal.

  32. stixwiz said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    On an alternative blog i called the p.h. question before Vogie even came up to bat. So basically i was queasy going into it. Vogie had an extended spring. He hadn’t had much exposure yet. Under those circumstances 95 pitches IS a lot. And nobody can claim Otero was not fresh for the seventh as he did not pitch last night. Also, a couple of those who did threw only a few pitches. We’re not exactly talking the Marichal-Spahn 16 inning outing here.

    What’s all this be kind to Bochy nonsense? Again, unless he is/was under orders he had no goddamn excuse to trot Huff n’ Puff out there again ~ particularly in the Enforcer slot.

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:23 pm

      Who said “be kind to Bochy”. Don’t make shit up, Stix. I did say that your animus toward him is not warranted.

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:30 pm

      Well, you wondered about it. You didn’t say you disagreed. Better than most, though. At least you commented at all about it before the Mets scored their runs in the bottom of the inning. As To Huff, his performance today, particularly being totally not “with it” when he moved to second, should be enough to trade or DFA him. But there have been plenty of good reasons to play him until now- the good/bad year trend, the fact that he had a poor April in 2010 also, and yes-11 million bucks…

  33. Del Mar Dennis said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    It’s the Bobby Valentine’s Day Massacre. Up 9-0, his Sox now trail the Yanks 14-9.
    He should just do the honorable thing and commit suicide in the dugout.

    • Nipper said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:32 pm


    • Nipper said, on April 21, 2012 at 4:36 pm

      What are you drinking today, Dennis? All I have is a jug of burgundy. Ran out of my Pabsts. Old Mil is long gone. VO is dry!

  34. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    Humber, eh? He and Carlos Gomez were supposed to be the key guys for the Twins in the Santana trade. I remember thinking then that neither would make it with the Twins but Humber was going to do something special for Chicago one day..

  35. snarkk said, on April 21, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    This whole mini thread on WHEN you voice an opinion on a move or a call is complete and utter bullshit and a total waste of time. All the fans on this blog, certainly the regulars, have a right to voice their opinion, regardless of it being milliseconds before the next pitch or whether it’s the next day because they were in their car hearing the game on the radio, or they were slopping rigatoni into their kid’s bowl at the time and hearing Miller on the radio describe the play then thought “WTF isn’t he PHing here for Voggy”, but didn’t immediately drop the rigatoni bowl to go to the computer to post and “register” the question. This isn’t fucking Jeopardy, we are not on the clock. If calling out agreement or disagreement with a manager’s move or a coaches play call in real time mattered, we wouldn’t have sportstalk shows. Hell, we wouldn’t talk about sports at all, and we wouldn’t enjoy the damn game very much. Timing of your opinion matters not one whit as to its validity unless you assume the opinion giver has some agenda or ulterior motive. I don’t assume that of anyone here. It’s not as if we’re all here trying to make money or points in giving our views — if it were so then this blog would be a sham and a complete joke. I got on here because I liked the give and take about such things and different opinions of real, rabid Giants fans, even when they disagree with mine. They can be stupid or good viewpoints in my opinion, but I never doubt that they are given with feeling and with no ulterior motives. I want to have discussion about the Giants with guys that know the players and the game, not about some procedure about how and when to register your viewpoint. I don’t know anyone here personally, but i’ve been around the block, and from what I read of just about everybody here, I assume nobody that regularly posts is shallow enough to try to make points by lying about whether and when they agreed or disagreed with some dumbass or brilliant move by Bochy or Dusty or Harbaugh. The above thread tangent today is the type that is driving me to post now on an irregular basis. See you next week…

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 5:53 pm

      you seem to basically be agreeing with my point—-but the reason I made the point was to stop the discouragement of posts. And then you end your post by saying the tangent of the thread is why you’re posting less. If I didn’t bring it up would that have been better?

  36. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    Bullshit. It is totally 100 percent obvious that the comments at 12:18, made after the Mets scored twice, were only voiced in hindsight displeasure because not hitting for Vogelsong backfired. It would be no BFD if the poster just acknowledged it. “Gee, I was slopping Rigatoni and done forgot all about it until the Mets went ahead.” Sell it to Room B. My point was correct- and stop with the fabrication that it was about not objecting immediately. Again, the timing made it perfectly clear- you waited for the outcome to object. You were fine with it until then.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 5:55 pm

      Twin, enjoy your posts today denouncing all of this but I am telling you (and anyone else who does it in the future) that I’m not ok with any condemnation of others’ posts based on some arbitrary time-stamp that was missed by the poster. I will delete comments by those who break this rule starting tomorrow…….

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:19 pm

        Well, you know it had nothing to do with an “arbitrary time stamp”, it had to do with “misremembering” that they disagreed until the Mets went ahead . You say you disagreed, but you didn’t post about it IMMEDIATELY after the Mets scored twice. I suspect you knew how it would look- exactly how I said it looked.So you were wise enough not to do it. Someone said that Fleming disagreed with it immediately. Irrelevant to my point- there’s an argument that he should have hit for Vogelsong- but the argument doesn’t begin with the Mets going ahead in the bottom of the inning.

      • blade3colorado said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:24 pm

        Flav’s post makes sense. Thank you. I was watching 10 year old girls play softball today (my cousin’s daughter’s team). They lost not because the other team out hit them, but because the other team was able to accumulate more walks then them. Hey, that’s how these games go at that age. Interesting factoid about little girls softball – they have a mini mercy rule every inning where the team scoring 5 runs automatically takes the field and allows the other team to bat.

        However, I digress . . ,.

        I missed the game, but if I want to make a comment on a play after the fact, I think I or anyone else should be allowed to make it (in other words, not be criticized). By the by, I bet that the so-called “lurkers” would be more encouraged to post and less likely to lurk, if we (including myself) would be a bit more thoughtful about our comments. Moreover, criticize the opinion, but not the person making the opinion. Except Bozo . . . There is always room for a “FUCK YOU BOZO!”

        WHO LOVES YA JOHN? 😉

  37. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    If one is foolish enough to only disagree with a decision after it didn’t work, I think it’s totally fair to point that out. And it is totally fair and hardly a condemnation of the commenter. But it’s been decreed that it’s not allowed so that’s how it will be.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:42 pm

      I don’t think it has anything to do with disagreeing with a decision ONLY after an outcome has occurred. I think it’s more likely that a blogger thought something and then when it came to pass, especially if it was a negative outcome, decided to blog their disapproval about it—it’s cathartic. If you’re going to accuse a poster of blogging an opinion after the fact for some sort of extraneous gain then you would probably want to start with someone other than Zumie who couldn’t care less about that stuff. He’s as pure of a Giants fan as you can get. The dude is milling around San Jose Giants games for gawd’s sake 🙂
      I want this place to always be a place to vent about the team or celebrate it’s successes. Either is fine and persecution of their innocent posts will no longer be tolerated…….

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:01 pm

        I never said shit about Zumie. If his comment was one of the ones made in hindsight, I still never attacked, named, or defamed him. My post was persecuted, not his.

      • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:05 pm

        see my post below.

  38. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    And no one interfered with anyone’s right to “make a comment on a play after the fact”. . except my right to factually note that certain comments were made with the benefit of hindsight.

  39. PawlieKokonuts said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    Kind of a strange day at Citi. I went in around 2nd or 3rd inning because there was a logistical problem w/ someone i was supposed to meet. I said screw it, went in, and left his ticket at will call, near the phony Jackie Robinson [he was never a Met] rotunda. My guy ambled in around the 5th. Nice seats $25 bucks each up top behind the plate. I always like the view behind the plate. I can’t believe that sloppy 9th, for both teams. I left w/ a shoulder shrug kind of reaction. LOTS of Giants fans all over. I handed out cards about my book to many of them. A section in the outfield, maybe 138, was people w/ all orange; maybe the folks from Finnerty’s. OH! I did meet Macdog before the game. He came right up to me! Very pleasant fellow. We got a Giants fan to take some pictures. The strange thing? Someone tells me after the game that Huff played second. You know what, maybe I knew it or heard it during the game but I must have dismissed it as a psychotic fugue. After the game, in the parking lot, I mused to some drunken SF fan that Bochy was overmanaging. Maybe I’m overimagining. There were quite a few hot chicks worth imagining over at the game and around the stadium. When I was standing next to one TALL young lady in the will call line, I barely resisted saying, “My, those are marvelous breasts, and they are right at about eye level. Wow!” But I resisted. Then I drove to CT on 95N listening to the Red Sox whip the Yanks 9-0. But as I headed to Booby V’s hometown, Boston’s fortunes reversed. I had a hot-oil pizza at the immortal Colony Bar & Grill next to an angry Red Sox fan as it was 15-9 Yanks in the 9th. Bobby V may not win any sort of election in Stamford, certainly not in Chicopee, Mass.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:57 pm

      fantastic post as always. So you didn’t see Huff at 2nd base in the bottom of the 9th? I was curious to know your opinion of his positioning which everyone said was too far away from 2nd (in addition to his bumblefuck move towards first base when that ball was hit).
      Question: Why was Huff so far off 2nd base? Isn’t that something the coaches should be paying attention too? They position the outfielders all the time. And they do so with the infield, too. So when they put an imbecile out there who has never played 2nd before, what was the coaching staff thinking when they let him play a mile off 2nd? It wouldn’t have changed anything since Huff bolted to first when the ball was hit, but it was curious that he was so far off 2nd base for the duration of that inning…….
      What should we call that Huff side-bolt to first base? That move needs a nickname. Back in college, if you were too hammered to stick around the bar you would pull a *silent boogie* and your friends wouldn’t realize you’d left till later. What if we call this the *stage left boogie*? the *bumblefuck boogie*? Maybe a name without the word *boogie* in it?

    • blade3colorado said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:04 pm

      There are many types of breasts out there, but until now, many people experienced problems communicating what particular breasts were like until now…

      . . Itty bitty titties
      ()() Little breasts
      (.)(.) Nice breasts
      (o)(o) Perfect breasts
      (D)(D) Bullets
      (O)(O) Handful breasts
      (~0~)(~0~) Stretch mark breasts
      \o/.\o/ Grandma’s breasts
      [o][o] Breasts during a mammogram
      * ^ * Flat chest
      (+0(+0) Fake silicone breasts
      (*)(*) High nipple breasts
      (@)(@) Big nipple breasts
      oo A cups
      {O}{O} D cups
      (^)(^) Cold breasts
      (<)(<) Perky breasts
      (o)(O) Lopsided breasts
      (Q)(O) Pierced breasts
      (p)(p) Hanging tassels breasts
      (-)(-) Flat against the shower door breasts
      lollol Android breasts
      ($)($) Jenny McCarthy's breasts
      (ooo) Total Recall breasts (she had three!)
      (O)A(O) Tit fucked breasts

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:16 pm

        you have too much time on your hands, instead of breasts in them

      • blade3colorado said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:19 pm

        Sigh . . . quite true.

  40. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    This is the comment started this shit storm:
    “The loss was on the players… as pointed out- it was a tie game, two out, Vogelsong pitching well ( 95 pitches is NOTHING), he’s a good hitter. It clearly did not call for a pinch hitter-and no one even mentioned it until Vogelsong gave up runs in the bottom of the inning. Typical blogsight.”

    No blogger is attacked, named, or defamed. It is totally disingenous nonsense that there was anything out of line in the post. As I said, if one is foolish enough to only disagree with Bochy after the Mets score in the bottom of the inning, of course it will properly be viewed as hindsight. But Flavor and Snark view that post as if I’d defamed the poster’s mothers.Singling out my comment was WRONG. How is that vanilla post wrong and this typical bullshit in response OK?
    ” Bull fucking shit. Go ahead run on second in the 7th is a PHing scenario. As Z pointed out, it wasn’t well received on the radio. But since you say it shouldn’t have been considered that makes it right. Go grab a shovel a clean up your own bullshit”
    Look at the frigging thread, the interference was with my right to a valid opinion.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:04 pm

      I never even read Z’s post and still haven’t. Don’t know what he said or when he said it. You are correct that the highlighted blog post by you is what kickstarted all of this but it wasn’t that single post. I’ve just been getting tired of it for a while now and decided to intervene.
      There’s no shit storm, I’m not mad or anything as I hope you can tell. I’m just laying the ground work NOW: If a blogger here at the Flap comments negatively on a blogger who has posted an opinion that has occurred after an outcome, I will be deleting that post. Simple, really……..

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:19 pm

        It’s a total fabrication that this is common- I may have said something about it last fucking year. I heard you about the deleting. Pretty selective considering there are far more objectionable posts, but the standard seems to be that if the comment sides with your POV, it’s cool. Anyway, I’ll post as usual- smart, informed, usually right. You can delete what you don’t like.

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:26 pm

        Z’s post was no BFD and neither was my post that only referred to it . The posts that were out of the line were the subsequent ones attacking mine.

  41. PawlieKokonuts said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    DJLoo’s account of yesterday’s game is a model of Hemingway-ish concision.

    Here’s the thing about Huff’s non-play: Oh, we saw it! We saw it. My publisher and I talked about it, all right. We said, whatthefuckwasthat? I thought Crawford bobbled, as the jerk in front of us said, but Jim and I said, no one was covering second! What!? We saw it but did not fathom what was happening. Sort of like those Mount Rushmore breasts staring at me earlier from the monumental statuesque hottie with the aviators. If she only knew what I was thinking. But I think she did. Which makes it worse.
    p.s. on one dribbler that got by Lopez it looked like they could’ve charged three errors. We lead the majors in errors. Give me Blanco! (Mets are very high on Nieunenenendeuevenhiussluisenzie.)

  42. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:36 pm

    I didn’t hear what he said, I’m sure someone can distort it for me, but Huff at least had the guts to take questions on the move toward first.

  43. Macdog said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    My turn. A bizarrely eventful day at Citi Field, to say the least. As Pawlie said, I met up with him before the game when I recognized him in the crowd after I veered off from the designated meeting place. We then got a Giants fan (and yes, there were a lot of them) to take our picture, and I hope Pawlie’s came out on his camera because I guess the guy didn’t know how to take one with my phone. We then parted to go into the stadium as it was close to game time, although we did exchange a few texts during the game.

    As for the game, I’ve never seen in person a more comical 9th inning — or 1 1/2 innings if I want to count the Mets’ baserunning blunders in the 8th. And I was well aware who — or maybe what — was playing 2nd. In the end, all I could do was just shake my head and laugh at the absurdity of it all.

    When my friend and I returned to Jersey, the day wasn’t quite over. We went to a sports bar in Roselle called Central Park where none other than Daniel Murphy was signing autographs. I was hoping to tell Murphy, who’s not exactly known for his fielding prowess, that at least he wasn’t the worst second baseman on the field today, but didn’t get the chance. So I just took a picture from afar and went back to the bar to watch hockey and the Yanks’ ridiculous comeback.

    Despite the outcome, it was very much a pleasant day for this Giants fan.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 8:12 pm

      Great post. I wish I could have met you guys out there, a Flapper Intersection is always *good times*……

  44. Bozo said, on April 21, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    Holy shit flappers. After that weird ass game I cooked some dogs and watched a weird movie. I just logged back on to write a lame joke (After that game and on a scale of one to David Hasselhoff, how drunk are you guys getting?). But this thread just blew up. Damn, if I didn’t know better I’d say we just lost the seventh game of the series. I think Blade has the right idea (and DMD who created it), just tell me to get fucked and move on.
    On that note I’m going to bed, but not before hoping you all had a happy Record Store day AND a happy World Circus Day despite the loss.

  45. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    It’s always nice to read the posts from people who were at the game. I envy you. I miss that as much as anything. Nice post, good to see you laugh, the proper response to such a bizarre but entertaining game.

    • Macdog said, on April 21, 2012 at 8:32 pm

      It was just such a beautiful day outside, the kind that’s perfect for going out to a ballgame, that I wasn’t about to let a tough loss like that bring me down. And since I’m at work most Saturdays, that made going out to a game even more satisfying.

      One more little detail. The minute we stepped off the subway I’m getting heckled by an old woman wearing a Rusty Staub jersey. She says something like, “We’re gonna pound the Giants today,” and I’m thinking WTF is this, but can’t help myself and blurt out, “Yeah, just like last night.” At least I didn’t run into her after the game.

      • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 8:43 pm

        perfect. This one is going into the POTD archives.

  46. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    I think Bozo the Fucking Clown just broke a streak of about 67 DJLoo POTD’s. It could have easily been MacDog or Pawlie. Or me. Baha.
    I’ll tell you, one of the best sidebar’s of this blog is the face-2-face’s that you guys end up having in our 3-D world. I fucking love it. I’ve met several Flappers but I know that there are others who make a face-2-face encounter happen all the time. It’s *1 louder*…..

  47. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    Those guys always make great posts. Many of us do when we’re sharing our love for the game or our experiences with it. A post from Paulinasia could be POTD everytime he posts. Any of those guys, really. Plus Blade, others I’ve missed. Except mine, they all deserve to be POTD far more often than they are.

    • blade3colorado said, on April 21, 2012 at 9:15 pm

      “Except mine . . . ”

      Don’t make me laugh . . . Shit Twin, your posts are gold every time you say something specifically about baseball. Actually, your baseball posts are frequently a metaphor for life. However, how much fun would it be if Flav selected your posts as POTD every day? Not much. This isn’t to say – as you pointed out – that others don’t post good stuff. Not going to speak for anyone else, but frankly, you’ve forgotten more baseball than I probably will ever know (and I knew that after a couple of weeks of frequenting this site initially three years ago). That’s a fact and I am not blowing up your tires to make you feel good.

      Just being honest, but the other shit you sometimes post that is occasionally negative or critical of other posters, isn’t you, i.e., more times than not, I end up attributing it to your chronic pain that no one can understand except yourself.

      Good night Twin. Good night Flappers.

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 9:58 pm

        I’ve never used my condition as an exuse for anything here and I won’t start now. I know that many probably have serious issues themselves but haven’t been so bold as to bore everyone else with it. I’m cranky because I’m a cranky guy I guess. I’ve mostly lived alone ( by choice) through it all so I do win all the arguments with Zeke and Mickey. I appreciate you, Pawlie, all of the others who I miraculously don’t seem to argue with. I may be more or less responsible for a particular tiff, but this much is true: my “opponent” is a man who *loves* an argument. Zumie might be the only exception and I’m sorry he and I are on the outs. I wish the blog were more about the love of the game we all share and less of what I consider the petty bullshit- OMG, Melky should bat fifth- we’re DOOMED. Anyway, the second guessing seems to be what the people want, who am I to argue? Thanks for all your kind words Steve, they mean a lot to me..

      • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 10:18 pm

        I do think most people would see a bigger picture than today’s line up and the manager’s decisions, as they see more baseball and perhaps aging has something to do with it too. Not everyone is the same but I can’t think of a subject that I’m not more liberal about now than when I was when grinding out a living. I’m trying to think of about how many games my teams have lost in 50 years. Maybe close to 4,000. I can’t honestly say I remember one that the manager lost.. OK maybe one. Against the A’s- The Little Dictator ( Mauch) was the Twinkie manager. Tie game, A’s up, bottom of the ninth. One runner got on. So he loaded the bases with two walks. Brought every body in who he could legally bring in. Pitcher got so flustered-first pitch ten feet over the catchers head. Game over..

  48. Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    I just re-read the *best of—POTD*—sad that I don’t update that more often. It started out as a vote and that was dumb so i scrapped it. Then I let it slide for a year. Lately I’ve been getting back into it, noticing it, honoring it. My favorite thing about this blog is reading something that has me doing a *knowing dude head nod* and saying “that was fucking perfect.” And I want to preserve those on the main page…….

  49. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    If there was a POTD and also a Joke of the Day… well, that won’t happen.

    • Flavor said, on April 21, 2012 at 9:04 pm

      The POTD is often just a quick-hit thing. Loo dominates those. That’s why I want to start filing the *best of–POTD’s* and I’m going to. I’ve loved doing this but I’m done at the end of this year and I want to save the *best of the bests* in one section……..

  50. twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    Alnost everybody had great posts in my “Baseball as Therapy” page, although you criticized the title. I saved it but have no idea how to repost it. There are probably ten “Best ofs” there . Oh well.

  51. zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    TF, I made it clear I was driving in a car during that Vogelsong at-bat. It would have actually been ILLEGAL for me to post my displeasure with Bochy’s decision at the time. (grin)

    • twinfan1 said, on April 21, 2012 at 10:01 pm

      Well, I’m happy you chose to save lives…

  52. paulinasia said, on April 21, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    Now 11:45am Sunday morning in Saigon, 9:45pm Sat. in the Bay Area, and after a loss, Flappers often disappear into that good night by now, so perhaps I’m just talkin’ to myself, but hell, I do that all the time anyway. I hate the fucking Mets. I’ve always hated the fucking Mets. Growing up as a young Jersey boy idolizing the Mantle/Maris Yanks and then those no good newcomers, the Mets? What kind of name is that. The Jets? The Nets? Have you idiots no imagination? All my boyhood friends became Met fans, so obnoxious, especially when they beat Baltimore in ’69, and then of course later in my life living in Boston, watching the Sox cough it up to… the fucking Mets. I still cannot watch a replay of the ball going through Buckner’s legs while Ray Fucking Knight dances around 3rd base to home.

    And what weird shit seemingly continues to happen when SF plays the Mets.. bad calls, brain farts deluxe… Benitez double-balking, which mercifully resulted in his release… the grossly incorrect “out” call on Ishi at the plate that one game we should’ve won (and the umpire amazingly stupidly said afterwards something like “well, I was watching the catcher and he gave it a good effort, so I called the runner out”. Huh?). Now Huff acting on years of instinct (so he says) moving the wrong way (yo, dude, my little league coach drummed it into our heads to ALWAYS, before every pitch, envision in your mind what you will do if the ball is hit here, hit there, hit anywhere), and some bad calls at first base, all seemingly going against the Giants, yada yada yada….

    Sounds like some rainouts coming, but if they get to play two more, I really really hope Tim and Madbum just grind those shits into the ground, take the series, and get the hell out of the Big Flush. Fucking Mets.

    Thanks, I feel better now. Baseball as therapy? How ’bout Flap as therapy for baseball, sometimes…

    • zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 10:14 pm

      For many years, that Northeast trip for the Giants was a nightmare. It was usually a NY, Philly, Montreal roadtrip and it was always full of losses for the Giants, it seemed like.

  53. zumie said, on April 21, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    I rather enjoyed Halliday losing today. He wasn’t all that sharp against the Giants, and the ump gave him a wide Glavine-esque strikezone later in the Giants game, after Halliday whined about calls.

  54. eddacker said, on April 21, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    Tell me if this is ‘baseball memories as therapy” cause it did my mind some good when I read it.
    Matt Berry on Lincecum:

    Remember, we’ve seen stretches from Lincecum like this before: In four starts from Aug. 10-27, 2010, he allowed six, five, four and four earned runs. He followed up that by going 5-1 with a 1.94 ERA in September, then helped pitch the Giants to a World Series title by winning four of his five starts with a WHIP of 0.92 while striking out 43 batters in 37 playoff innings.

  55. twinfan1 said, on April 22, 2012 at 8:36 am

    Edd, it is correct about that August but the details are far worse. He was 0-5, 7.82 ERA. All of the peripheral numbers were just as awful. So while it’s absolutely correct that he turned it around and pitched brilliantly to lead them to the title, stretches like he had in August are not OK, just as this one isn’t. Since we won the West on the final day of the season, his August could very easily have doomed their hopes. A pitcher of his stature does have to figure things out a lot sooner than he did in 2010. There’s a school of thought that says he doesn’t rate criticism becauseof his contributions but that’s poppycock- if anything he should be held to a higher standard than less talented pichers.This year isn’t as bad as in 2010 when it was heresy to criticize his August performance, most people are now realizing that he’s not God, that would be Tebow..

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