A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Differing Definitions of *Close*

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 11, 2012

Another bad Lincecum loss brought out the typical responses from Bochy, Timmy, radio host guys, etc. “He’s thhhhhhhhis close! He’s juuuuuuuuuuust about there! Just one more tiny tweak….”

The only problem is that they’ve been saying the exact same thing for about 8 weeks now. And after 8 weeks of hearing the same nonsense  it’s time to consider an alternative position: maybe Tim isn’t as close as everyone keeps saying he is…..

He continues to have very little command. Major league hitters are NOT going to chase balls tailing away from them at their eye level or balls that bounce four feet in front of them. They might chase once in a while. But they’re going to let most of them go by and will usually be able to work the count in their favor. You simply can’t pitch an entire game and win with the suspect command that Lincecum brings to the mound each and every start……..

Timmy’s fastball is about the same as Voggy’s. Nothing too special, both hover around 90-91. But you don’t see Voggy miss so badly with so many pitches as you see with Lincecum. Voggy throws the ball exactly where he wants it to go.

And the ONE thing I’ll give the *velocit-ologists* is that Timmy got away for too long with NOT having good command because he had such an electric fastball. He probably never had to have *Voggy focus* in a game where every pitch you make is methodically played out in your mind before you throw it.

And I’ve got no idea if Lincecum can ever do what Voggy does in terms of focus and execution. The only thing I do know is he’s not *this  close* to being able to do it…………

 

208 Responses

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  1. blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:50 am

    Weatherproof games: Nationals-Blue Jays, Red Sox-Marlins

    There are just two games played in roof-less stadiums on Monday. Yankees-Braves could be delayed by a pretty heavy thunderstorm arriving in Atlanta around 9 p.m., but the rest of the night’s forecast calls for low-70s temperatures and minimal winds (5-7 mph). Angels-Dodgers will actually be a bit chilly for California standards in June, with temperatures in the mid-60s. But L.A. will experience mostly clear skies with winds at less than 5 mph.

  2. willieD said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:07 am

    His previous start you could argue he had one bad inning, gave up 4 runs to a bad team and then shut them down; yesterday he had only one good one, vs. a good hitting team, and gave up 5 early again.
    The Z comparisons are kind of eerie (team doesn’t win or play well behind him, ERA is way high, lot of walks and baserunners, bad body language), and TL even sounds like him sometimes (trust my stuff). Since a suitable replacement doesn’t seem to be at hand if you skip a start, SF is stuck running the both of them out there. Next start for TL is back in the hometown Seattle, double edged sword, I think.
    But, Sf staff over all is pretty solid top to bottom. Give Pablo some time to get timing back, melk recovers from hamstring, LU ilooks better with nate and arias on the bench as backups, plus hector.

  3. Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:13 am

    The Freak is freaky bad.

    • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:17 am

      Pablo is BIG!

  4. Alleykat said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:26 am

    Right now I would move Tim to the 3rd spot in the rotation,no need for him to go against other teams #1.Rotation would go Cain(1) Bum(2) Freak(3) Vogy(4) Zits (5)

  5. gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:36 am

    I need some serious advice friends….

    I am in a Death Pool and it is now to 28 of us for $11K…I have not used the Giants yet and only 11 of the other 27 still have the Giants alive.

    Do I take them this week???? Zito and Lincecum both get just one start. Three games at home against Houston (who has not been playing badly) and then 3 in Seattle. 2 Bum starts for the week…

    I feel confident we can take two at home and at elast one on the road. You need to play just .500 baseball to survive for that week…what say you? Stick with the Mighty Orange and Black???

    • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:55 am

      They’ll take 4 of 6.

      • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:02 am

        That is how I see it…

      • chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:53 pm

        I agree.

  6. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:54 am

    Well, it appears they are going to stick with him in the rotation and I don’t have a huge problem with that, but his control and “command” are quite obviously the main issue (which, also obviously, make 91 MPH an issue). I’d suspect that his head problem will disappear when his command returns. I’d skip a start or two, Loux or Hacker should be able to handle that, and have him work with Rags and/or Daddy. Right now he’s battling “here we go again syndrome” which is why Bochy was absolutely 100 percent correct in leaving him in against Hamilton.

    As Bruce said:
    “I know I’m taking a risk there,’’ Bochy said. “I thought it would be big for (Lincecum) to get an out.” It’s not like he was gassed- he isn’t getting over making the killing pitch by avoiding the possibility. But it will be better for him and better for the team to let him take a deep breath and work on his problems away from the arena.
    IMHFO..

  7. Bomber said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:55 am

    Put Lincecom’s ego aside and put him in the pen for now. He can work on “executing his pitches” and hopefully get it together. I agree with what Flavor said several starts ago, he throws too many off speed pitches instead of his fastball. He must of thrown a dozen pitches in the dirt yesterday that Posey had to block. Maybe being in the pen will force him to throw stikes and he’ll come back in the second half like the old Timmy. Right now, he’s costing us the division. He has no confidence right now so putting him in the bullpen isn’t going to hurt his confindence.

  8. gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Let’s give him a start at home in Seattle….I think it is a matter of getting ahead of hitters. People are not biting on his off-speed and splitter for the strike out pitch and then he kept getting behind yesterday and going full counts.

    My sion and I were talking about the Pagan trade yesterday in context of losing Rmairez, but can anyone argue that may have been the steal of the year??? Melky is a pretty good dividend…I bow down to you Sabean. I love me soem Pagan Dirt!

    We need a bat for the seocnd half…thoughts? First base and or outfield hitters available?

    • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:20 am

      Who do you propose they replace in the OF? Actually, the Jed Lowrie idea is a good one-but 1. Houston has to be amenable to the idea and 2. He’s being grossly over valued here. Or Epstein grossly under valued him. So maybe we should look to the Cubbies as trading partners.

      • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:42 am

        I am not necessarily thinking of a starter, a veteran hitter with some power that can come off the bench…al sort of Patt Burrell in 2010…

  9. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:11 am

    He’s throwing his fastball slightly more than half the time- so while the chart Craig posted yesterday shows than his velocity hasn’t changed all that much since 2010, neither has his pitch selection. He’s not throwing more off speed pitches. Fastball percentage was 54.6 percent in 2010, 53.9 percent this year, less than one pitch difference per 100 pitches..

    • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:45 am

      his fastballs seem to be more up this year and on a flatter plain…does anyone of these blog sites track pitch location?

  10. Bomber said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:25 am

    They’re not swinging at his offspeed stuff when it’s way out of the strike zone so he has to make an adjustment. I think he should throw more fastballs. I saw a couple guys yesterday take fastballs right down the middle because they were waiting for a change up which is what Hamilton hit for the double. But that’s interesting to know that he’s throwing the same selection of pitches as last year.

    • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:46 am

      seems to me that is what happened to Zito on Friday, he kept trying to get his change-up over and the Rangers were waiting on it…

  11. Hemelvaart said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:33 am

    .

    • DJLoo said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:49 am

      Chuck: I believe mayonnaise is very good on a ham sandwich as long as a tomato and some sort of cheese are also present. Otherwise, mustard is definitely the way to go. I hope we can still be friends.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:58 am

        One needs to be more specific- brands, gentlemen.

      • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:20 am

        mayonnaise is full of fat. Eggs and oil is what you are eating.

      • Bozo said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:50 pm

        Hellmans on the East Coast, Best Foods on the West.

    • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:35 am

      I totally disagree! And further more, most sane people would too!

    • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:06 pm

      Are you an old fart?

  12. Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:49 am

    The Giants are 32-16 this year when Lincecum doesn’t start……

    • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:56 am

      That’s why I said long ago that his performance (and the defense) were why they weren’t leading the division.

  13. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Frankly, my theory that Zito stole Tim’s mojo as Tim slept is probably the best one out there.

  14. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Off to the dentist soon. Really- I’m not one to bitch but giving me a toothache so bad that I’d willingly agree to be shot to alleviate it…is laying it on a bit thick, Big Guy.

  15. zumie said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Yes, the Giants not being in firstplace is all Tim’s fault. It’s not Sandoval’s fault for missing a month, or some infield guys hitting .230, or firstbasemen who can’t hit homeruns. It’s all the fault of the guy who pitches every fifth day and gives up 5 runs.

    • zumie said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:36 am

      And even when he gives up less than 5 runs, it’s still all his fault. And even if bad team defense causes it to be 5 runs, it’s still all his fault

      • DJLoo said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:58 am

        Good points, zumie. Just look at his FIP…

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:58 am

        Zumie, you may not want it to mean anything but his 6 ERA does not lie. Simple fact is that the other pitchers have had the same obstacles. Yes, his performance-and I did say the defense- are why they’re in second place.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:13 am

        So the word is that he’s just been unlucky? Actually, I’m happy to go with that. Craig is a HUGE saberdude and since FIP is Tim’s TRUE ERA, he’s well ahead of the Zitter. So Denny- just send me the hundred now. It’s over, pal.

        Tim FIP 3.66
        Zitman 4.64

        It *is* funny, though, how guys bring up stats they have never ever wever mentioned in their whole life.

  16. unca_chuck said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Well, when you look at the other 4 starters (and their records), something’s up. Injuries happen, slumps, blah blah blah. Tim’s suckiness is baffling, though. He’s now the Zito of the rotation. He gets the first 2 outs in 5 pitches, then walks the bases loaded and it takes 25 pitches to get the last out of the 1st inning. The tone was set. Hitters are waiting til Tim is forced to hit the plate. Hamilton waiting on the changeup is a prime example. Like Bochy said, he left Timmy in there to HELP him get over his problems, not pull him at the first sign of trouble. Yeah, a double-edged sword. The point being, Bochy showing confidence in Timmy when even he himself doesn’t have it goes a long way toward helping him. Even if short-term it didn’t.

    All that being said, the biggest issue is he isn’t giving the team a shot to win the games he pitches in.

    I think he should definitely skip a start, but he is probably chomping (sic) at the bit to pitch at home in Seattle.

  17. unca_chuck said, on June 11, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Maybe Timmy should get married. . . .

    • snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:16 am

      He’s got a dog.
      No nagging, no complaints, loyal even if your ERA balloons, and works for food…

      • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:36 am

        Dogs are certainly more loyal.

    • unca_chuck said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:26 am

      It worked (relatively) for Zito . . .

      • snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:34 am

        When his ERA balloons later this season, then what? Divorce?…

    • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:28 am

      He is the onlly starter not married and something has worked to get Zito him to re-focus. Is it marriage? The Bum, Cain and Posey even are all young guys married….I’m just saying…we know Timmy enjoys his burgers and other things…

      • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:33 am

        Ballplayers get divorced too.

    • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:32 am

      Bad idea. Wives cost money.

  18. gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:29 am

    OK, I got Twin’s enndorsement to go with the Giants this week in the Death Pool…others?

    • blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:43 am

      Are you kidding GH? Go with it . . . Houston and Seattle are the closest to sure things as you are going to get in this life.

      • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:59 am

        i just need 3 wins! so I think it is a lock as well…

    • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:48 am

      You don’t want to go with me, GH. I’m always wrong…
      Looking at the FIP stat a little more, it says that Tim has pitched better than Vogelsong. Let’s get one thing clear- no one here pays more attention to the numbers than I do, and I’m familiar with *most* Saberstats..but there is not a sane person in the universe who can say with a straight face that Tim has pitched better than Vogelsong. I’m not going to bust a gut looking for it, but FIP has a huge flaw somewhere..
      So with that said, I’m honest- I have to give the ERA lead back to the Zit..

    • chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:03 pm

      As mentioned ealier…I would “lock and load” on that shit. I expect the Gigantes to take 4 of 6.

  19. Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:35 am

    If only Pablo gets back into shape! I hate fat third basemen. A fat DH is okay. Perhaps he’s a AL guy.

  20. snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Houston’s going with two LHPs in this upcoming series. I wouldn’t book an SF series win at all, especially if Melky isn’t playing. If he’s still nursing the leg on the bench, 1 of 3 is more likely…

  21. blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Off topic . . . If anyone is planning to go see the movie Prometheus, save your money. No idea what it costs in California to see a first run 3D movie, but here they hosed everyone for $16 a head. I wont give away spoilers, but this movie, which is a quasi-prequel of Alien, is so disjointed that you end up leaving the theater with more questions, than answers. Any expectations for being; a. Scared shitless; b. Entertained; or, c. Impressed with the characters and/or story line – will not be met. In short, the characters are not developed and consequently, you could give a rat’s ass if they live or die. In conclusion, this movie was actually laughed at in certain parts, e.g., aftermath of the surgery, because it was totally unbelievable.

    Back to baseball . . .

    • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:03 pm

      good, saved me some money

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:16 pm

      Sounds like it is set up perfectly for a sequel. Some people I know really liked it.

      Hey, did you send me an e-mail linking to financial topics last week? I got a randon e-mail from you and have not opened it for fear you were hacked.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:18 pm

        Dirt delete it. Yeah, someone hacked my email account and had a link attached. Good that you didn’t open it. I changed my password, did a malware and anti-virus scan as well.

    • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:03 pm

      Thumbs down……way down…..or way way down.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:11 pm

        Umm . . . Probably just “thumbs down.” Cinematography was good. Sound was terrible (hard to understand the characters, especially the main character, Dr. Shaw (Noomi Rapace who is Swedish and speaks English with an accent . . . or, at least I could tell).

  22. Irish Kevin said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Ah the Timmy talk. What I am wondering is what has happened to talking to his dad, usually the press has interviewed/talked about his dad when Tim has struggled. What I have not seen talked about is the fact that Texas had two shut outs against the Giants. That appears to be as much of a problem as Timmy’s starts.

  23. Irish Kevin said, on June 11, 2012 at 11:54 am

    If the game had been oh say a 5-4 loss, then yes the talk should be all Tim. Texas had 14 hits on Friday and 8 hits yesterday. Giants had 5 and 3 respectfully in those two games

    • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:13 pm

      Fine, they should be 3-10 in his starts..
      BTW, they’ve scored 4 or more in 7 of his starts. He’s won *one* of those.

      • Irish Kevin said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm

        Good point. I was just pointing out that the offense wasn’t exactly kranking out runs this weekend.

  24. gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    No Melky..no offnse…

    • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:12 pm

      It’s so totally completely early to say that, it’s ridiculous.

      • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:15 pm

        Just in terms of just these two losses this weekend…not having him hurt our offensive production…just relax for once…

      • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:19 pm

        I think everything with this team is right on track…we are in second and just half game behind the Braves (I did not relaize they have been playing as well as they have) for the wild card lead. So we would be in the playoffs if the season ended today. I am pretty good with that.

        Add a veteran bat and maybe a bullpen arm and I think we are as capable of making a run as we were in 2010….

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:24 pm

        I’m relaxed, pal, just correcting one of your hundreds of misstatements. If you meant this weekend-say it.

  25. gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Snarkk…if you dont take the Giants, what team would you go with this week? Lots of bad options..AZ is in Texas, Nats in Toronto….Dodgers playing Angels…

    • snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:40 pm

      GHead, I’m no good at the other random teams. Don’t know enough, don’t care. I’d stick with advice the other guys give here, they have more time and pay way more attention to the other teams. My point was the Giants are not great against lefties this year, and Houston has scheduled to go with two (Happ and Wandy Rodriguez) in the last two games of the series. Plus, Melky being in or out and in doubt adds a significant wild card aspect to the next several games..

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:52 pm

        ” My point was the Giants are not great against lefties this year”

        Except for the fact that it isn’t true, good point.

      • chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:10 pm

        I found the stat…Giants are 13-6 against LH starters this year. In my book, those are not bad numbers.

  26. Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    GH– I wouldn’t go with the Giants. First of all, if Melky isn’t back then our offense could be awful again. Plus, you get the L with Timmy if he makes his start vs Sea. And Houston isn’t incompetent, remember last year what they did to us with an all-AAA line up?
    It looks to good to be true, go with another team.

    • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:08 pm

      as mentioned before, only 12 of the 28 remaining can take the Giants…so if they survive and the majority of the 12 take the Giants, I can pray for the rest of the league to tank…

  27. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Folks who need to relax are the usuals who are in perpetiual panic mode about the offense. I will explain it again- they’re not going to hit much at home (15th in the NL)-and didn’t when Melky was playing. They will pitch well at home, OK-most of them (2.61 ERA). On the road, they’ll hit much better (4th) and pitch worse (4.12). See? If you don’t have unrealistic expectations, you’ll enjoy baseball a heck of a lot more.

    • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:01 pm

      Dennis demands results!

    • gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:06 pm

      They were also without Panda for a long spell….Blanco is hitting great, Theriot had been on fire, add in a healthy Panda and Melky and solid Pagan and if Posey can get some power back, that is a pretty good 1-5…one more bat…

      • chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:12 pm

        WHO is the bat, and what exactly are you going to give up to get it?

  28. Irish Kevin said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Okay, so I am learning all about stats and what not reading this blogg, really appreciate the education. So I need help with the acronyms, driving me crazy, so a little help here, oh and yes I know the obvious ones, ISO?, wOBA=on base average but what does the little w mean. and wRC?? thanks to everyone who is smarter than a 5th grader.

    167 PA, 6.0 BB%, 16.8 K%, .124 ISO, .317 wOBA, 95 wRC+

    • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:55 pm

      Craig can tell you all about wRC+. In theory 100 is average.

  29. Bozo said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Off day. I’m taking my mind off Timmy and Melky. These photos were a nice break for me.

    http://life.time.com/icons/never-seen-photos-willie-mays/#1

    • chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm

      Nice picts, John…thanks for sharing. I needed something…I get depressed on days the Giants do not play…

  30. Irish Kevin said, on June 11, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Oh, and I am reading this blogg? don’t know exactly what it is, I just clicked on this link in a sports article took me here, called Bay City Ball. Anyone read/heard of this site.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 11, 2012 at 2:52 pm

      Yes, Kevin. It’s a good site.

  31. gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Also, the Giants schedule for this death pool is not great for the next month to 6 weeks, best week would be late July when they have the Padres and Dodgers at home, but I doubt the way this year has gone that the pool will last till late July. So this may be the best time to go with the Giants…

  32. gianthead said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    OK, Tampa has 3 games against the Mets and 3 against the Marlins at home after just sweeping them in Miami…would probably be the safer choice….

  33. eddacker said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    KEVIN:
    This should get your feet wet; it is a pay site, but the glossary is free
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/glossary/index.php?context=all&category=true

    I believe small w means “weighted” meaning there is an adjustment value for that statistic, but I do not have these values memorised, and the ones I do I forgot.

    🙂

    • Irish Kevin said, on June 11, 2012 at 1:53 pm

      Cool thanks

  34. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Anybody who hasn’t should go over to the Baseball as Therapy and Food pages. Or go even if you’ve been before. Both are antidotes for a gloomy off day.

    • chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 2:40 pm

      Michael – I “googled” it but not having any luck. You have a link?

      I just want to say on the note of therapy…I can be having a really shitty day, and come here and shoot the shit with you guys about the greatest game ever played, and I always feel better.

      I love this site and chapping ball (and life) with all you SOBs.

      It will be one sad fucking day when Flavor shuts this bad boy down…but let’s not think about that, right now.

      • Nipper said, on June 11, 2012 at 3:08 pm

        Flapper will never shut down. BF wants to be appreciated.

    • TedSpe said, on June 11, 2012 at 3:11 pm

      chi, I’m not sure if you’re kidding or not so just in case you’re not, twin is referring to the sub-sections right here on the Flap under “Room B and Other Outstanding Stuff”. Look for the titles
      •An Ex-Giant Watch List
      •Baseball as Therapy
      •BB of the Day!
      ◦BBOTD***POTD(!)
      •Beat the Streak! Flavor’s Current Streak: 0. Flavor’s Longest streak: 19
      •Most Memorable Food Experience
      •POTD–Best Of….
      •The Flap Fantasy Baseball Standings
      •The Story of A Sun Dressed Goddess

      • chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 3:30 pm

        Ted – nope…me being dense. On that note I’ll give myself a big huge DOH! 😉

        When I did the search, I did get a hit on some of the previous posts from the Flap…one of them had your description of your first game, etc. Great stuff.

  35. zumie said, on June 11, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    For not having a Giants game today, there’s a good double-header of baseball in Braves/Yankees followed by Dodgers/Angels. All four of those could be playoff teams. Hopefully the Dodgers’ playoff status, if they make it, is as a wild card, with the Giants kicking back for a few days as division winners.

    • Salty Dog said, on June 11, 2012 at 5:45 pm

      I don’t see those games listed on my TV guide? You have some special dish?

  36. chipower9 said, on June 11, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Hopefully, the Dodger’s playoff status is “time for you fuckers to break out your golf clubs and fishing poles.” NO PLAYOFFS for DA BUMS!

    • zumie said, on June 11, 2012 at 3:40 pm

      Yeah, what’s up with the Dodgers winning games with their patchwork lineup? That stuff needs to start collapsing. Dodgers going into Philly and sweeping 4 is about as annoying a thing as can happen in baseball. It seems the Giants are always CHASING in the last several years. 2010 we caught the Padres at the end. But always chasing someone different. 2011 the D-Backs. The Dodgers this year….

      • TedSpe said, on June 11, 2012 at 4:09 pm

        The Giants got the whole chasing thing down to a science. Just like Pepe Le Pew

  37. DJLoo said, on June 11, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Just on adrenalin, I’ll bet Tim will consistently hit 93 on the gun in Seattle and top out at 94-95…

  38. Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    Chi– I’m not shutting this place down, I’m just going to be re-structuring it. Once I hit post 1000 I’m done. I think I’m around 775 right now. Anyway, i’ll step down (maybe I’ll manage the BBOTD page and the Flap Fantasy league). Between now and post 1000 I’m going to put together a stable of authors who can post a thread when they want and co-manage the moderator shit. It’ll be 10-12 flap vets who express interest. Right now it’s twin, Snarkk and Dirt but I’m sure others will want to join them. I’ll keep paying for the yearly stuff (it’s barely anything, like $50-60 a year) and I’ll keep Ultimate Administrator powers in case all hell breaks loose or I change my mind after I retire and want to come back.
    I still enjoy running the blog for all the reasons I always did– it’s my favorite hobby that gets me out of real life for a while. But the time I once had to put to it just isn’t there like the “old days”.
    No rush, but if any of you vets want to be “editors” shoot me an email. The Flap will live on after I’m gone. It’ll be like the Enterprise after Kirk left. LQTM

    • blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 5:48 pm

      Picard sucks, albeit, I do like his haircut. 🙂

      • snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 5:57 pm

        Blade, I liked Picard. He was analytical, and compassionate, and hairless.
        But, Kirk did get the babes…

      • Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:02 pm

        I didnt watch too much of new gen but I did thoroughly enjoy when Pickard would say, “make it so, number 1.” Classy. Easy guy to follow into battle. But Kirk? Shit, even in between banging green bitches he still fried himSelf some Klingon ass by the end of the show. Spock knew who buttered his bread….

      • blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:08 pm

        For logical brain power, Spock’s my man. If truth be known, he deserved to be Captain of the enterprise, but Vulcan prejudice was such, that even his EEO complaint went nowhere.

      • TedSpe said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:26 pm

        hahahahaha

  39. snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    Right now Bochy is like Kirk: “Dammit Sabes, I need more powerrrr!!! And, the Freak’s run out of dilithium crystals — get some — NOW! Meanwhile, Uhuru, meet me in my cabin — I’ll bring the Arcturian brandy”..

  40. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Speaking of restructuring, I like the response whenever I do a food page, so might make that a regular page- restaurant reviews can be submitted, recipes, just shooting the breeze on barbecue, “Mom’s”, food disasters, whatver. What do you think, Craig, everybody?

    • snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 5:59 pm

      I’m in, if we can post and share about wine and beer and spirits, too, at least a little. In sum, I’m for ’em…

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:03 pm

        Sure, as I long as I can rate the world’s fine 2% milks without getting called a pussy.

      • unca_chuck said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:03 pm

        Oh. Milks. I thought you said milfs.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:16 pm

        I wouldn’t want to give Denny ideas. You really have no idea how I look out for you, Chuck. ( I don’t know if this should be a grin, a wink, or a smirk)_

      • snarkk said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:22 pm

        If it’s Milfs, they gotta be 100% for me.
        Of what, I dunno, but it’s gotta be 100%.
        As for milk, I’m into skin, uh, skim…

  41. unca_chuck said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Yeah, Kirk could always be counted on for scoring some intergalactic strange.

    Who can forget the green chick from Venus?

    Sure, count me if. That is if I pass muster . . .

    • Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:14 pm

      Yeah, I figured you were a given. WillieD would want to do it. I would hope Pawlie would guest write in between radio and tv spots. Blade would be the weatherman. Nip could handle the one-liner threads. Loo would be a presence impossible to ignore. Edd and AsianPaul could handle international correspondence. MacDog and Bozo could man the eastern quadrant. All this is just off the top of my head of course. There are clearly other flap vets who might be interested and have a personal angle to bring to the blog. That’s the essence of it. I don’t think I’ve ever once wrote a thread about what happened in the game. I just write about shit that interests me. Then you guys take it from there.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:26 pm

        See, I can help you with some of that mundane ballgame stuff. For instance, yesterday several Giants worked on their tans, many brewskies were sold, and the RF ball dude scored the phone number of a Gilf…

      • Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:38 pm

        It’s all ballgame stuff, Twin. It’s just that there’s a lot of shit that makes up the “ballgame.” Everyone has the stuff they’re interested in. Dirt got me started thinking about the “stable of authors.” And it will make this place better. Obviously everyone has grown tired of the one-way I write. New blood. New sound. Multiple voices. But not for another 225 threads. 🙂

      • DJLoo said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:51 pm

        That 225 should take you right about to Inauguration Day…

      • blade3colorado said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:55 pm

        Flav = Ted Baxter . . . “It all started at a 500 watt radio station in Fresno, California.”

      • Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:57 pm

        Well, that’s if I don’t delete any threads– and I haven’t in a long time. Maybe a year. But what if I start churning out 2-3 of these bad boys every day? Do the math on that Mr DJ Loo!!!!!!
        I’ll see if I can run it through the winter since I know I, and I alone, can keep the Winter interesting and fresh. Tits and haiku’s help with that.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 7:08 pm

        Actually, that was sort of a take on yesterday’s game. 5-0, yada yada..Thanks, though, for the help on what baseball means.

  42. Bozo said, on June 11, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    “Obviously everyone has grown tired of the one-way I write.”

    Flav, sometimes the thread is just a starting point for us knuckleheads to file through our cobwebs. It sure as hell doesn’t mean I’m/we’re tired of the way you write or the topics you use at lead ins.
    It just means to blow it out your ass. Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

    • Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 7:02 pm

      Well, it’s always just a starting point, right? Sometimes I’ll thread something out there, go to work for the day, and be surprised that no one made a single comment about the super critical all important life sustaining point I made when I was half out of it at 5am that morning.
      But like I said, everyone’s into their own thing.

      • TedSpe said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:47 pm

        Obviously everyone has grown tired of the one-way I write
        ————————————————————————————————-
        Bullshit. We luvs ya Flav. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

      • chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:40 am

        Nah, never tired of the lead-ins, but I agree with John…blow it out your ass! JK…I can see the stable of authors things working (not be be confused with a stable of hotties or MILFs….). 😉

  43. unca_chuck said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    Tits and a haiku, two bits . . .

    • TedSpe said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:43 pm

      Sung by the whorehouse…Quartet
      Did you get a hard-on?…Not yet
      Are ya gonna get one?..You bet

      I imagine someday I will be mentally older than 9.

      • Flavor said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:47 pm

        there’s always a place at the flap for those circa (~) 9 years old, Ted. 9 years old is a big part of my life, dude. I act 9, I’ve got a 9 year old, there’s you and this place. All good….

      • TedSpe said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:48 pm

        That’s why we us ya Flav. Thanks

      • TedSpe said, on June 11, 2012 at 8:49 pm

        us ya???
        Luvs ya

  44. SanDawg said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    If you haven’t checked out this latest post from the Merc, give it a look. Its Theriot talking about the different managers he has played for. Makes me like Theriot a tad more. Unfortunately, it also makes me hate LaRussa a little less—–which sucks as I really love to hate me some Tony LaRussa.

    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/giants/2012/06/11/theriot-settles-in-at-2b-reflects-on-lessons-from-la-russa-and-co/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+giantsextra+%28Giants+Extra%29

  45. twinfan1 said, on June 11, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    FYI, it is not correct that I will be a contributor to “Page A” after Craig turns over the reins to others. It’s possible I would continue Room B if asked. There will be plenty of wonderful writers to keep things fresh. File this in “Who asked?” but I just wanted to correct what Craig said about me being in on the this.
    For those who are interested, BTW, Mickey might actually be improving some-he ate a little for the first time in

    days. It was a bit of a jolt to see Loo mention FIP- it’s also a very serious disease that cats may acquire. It’s what what ails Mickey.
    G’night.

  46. eddacker said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:16 am

    good news about the cat, twinfan
    Well, if I had managed to be awake in the wee hours of the night I could have contributed to the “off-day” banter. Proof that sports fans can be friends, too. Great stuff here, as always.

    PS I just watched the new (2009) Star Trek movie and enjoyed it. And, of course, there is James T. enjoying a green Orion cadet.

  47. Nipper said, on June 12, 2012 at 7:34 am

    I hope Dennis isn’t rolling around on some sawdust floor somewhere.

    • unca_chuck said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:00 am

      No, he’s back in the van, Nipper.

      • Nipper said, on June 12, 2012 at 10:18 am

        At least he can stay dry!

  48. ewisco said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Flav, don’t go toward the light!! Come Back!!

    • TedSpe said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:34 am

      There is no death for the Flap. There is only a transition to a different sphere of consciousness. The Flap is not like those other it’s with. The Flap is a living presence in their spiritual earthbound plain. They are attracted to the one thing about The Flap that is different from themselves – its lifeforce. It is very strong. It gives off its own illumination. It is a light that implies life and memory of love and home and Mays, McCovey, Bonds, Clark and earthly pleasures, something they desperately desire but can’t have anymore. Right now, The Flap’s the closest thing to that, and that is a terrible distraction from the real LIGHT that has finally come for them. You understand me? These souls, who for whatever reason are not at rest, are also not aware that they have passed on. They’re not part of consciousness as we know it. They linger in a perpetual dreamstate, a nightmare from which they can not awake. Inside the spectral light is salvation, a window to the next plain. They must pass through this membrane where friends are waiting to guide them to new destinies. The Flap must help them cross over, but for now The Flap will only hear Craig’s voice. Now hold on to yourselves… There’s one more thing. A terrible presence is in there with The Flap. So much rage, so much betrayal, I’ve never sensed anything like it. I don’t know what hovers over this blog, but it was strong enough to punch a hole into this world and try to take The Flap away from us. It keeps The Flap very close to it and away from the spectral light. It LIES to oneflapdown77, it tells it things only a Giants fan could understand. It has been using The Flap to restrain the others. To Flavor Nation, it simply IS another Giants fan. To us, it is the BEAST. It is….the depraved denizens of The Splash

      • chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:45 am

        That is awesome, Ted. I think I’ll go astral project into the Flap dimension for a couple of hours…maybe, if I am lucky, I will brush elbows and exchange stories with Giants legends of old…

      • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:56 am

        Ted: I have an air tight alibi.

      • ewisco said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:01 pm

        for a second, i thought you were talking about the souls of dodger fans.

      • TedSpe said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:32 pm

        They’re interchangeable ewisco

  49. chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:46 am

    BTW…loved the Star Trek “sub-thread” great stuff, gents…had me LMAO a couple of times…

  50. twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Well, I guess he quit early..
    OK, today’s thread: Last year means NOTHING
    Some were cautioning yesterday that because Houston played us well last year, we should be extra wary this year. Well, it first needs to be said that every team in baseball-including many minor league teams- can win a series against anybody.But it has nothing to do with how the teams fared against each other the previous year. Don’t even need to look at Saberstats- only 2 players who started the last Astros game last year will likely start tonight ( Sandoval, Belt).
    The other starters were Torres, Keppinger, Huff, Orlando Cabrera, Beltran, Whitey. Don’t need to look at who played for Houston, irrelevant.
    Point being: of course Houston should not be taken lightly, no team should- but has nothing at all to do with the previous year’s results.
    Tonight: Bumgarner/Norris
    Huge edge SF on paper-this one should hold up on the field

  51. willieD said, on June 12, 2012 at 10:05 am

    maybe LA winning the Cup will make sharks fans not feel so bad. Sure, they couldn’t beat em, but nobody else could either. Lot of teams that did well reg season got bounced pretty hard/early in playoffs, including defending cup champs. Saw this one on another blog, but I love it: “tough time to be a boston fan.”

    • chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 10:43 am

      “maybe LA winning the Cup will make sharks fans not feel so bad.” Fuck that! This is not unlike waiting for years-and-years for the Giants to win the World Series. Until the Sharks hoist Lord Stanley’s Cup…there is nothing to diminish the pain.

      But, it didn’t bother me that L.A. won the cup…I was actually kind of happy for them (and the fact that Sutter used to coach the Sharks).

      But enough of that noise…all other sports are secondary to baseball (IMNSHO)…and we are in the middle of another glorious baseball season. Paw Rugg on the bump for Los Gigantes today (for those who remember the Hillbillly Bears…does Paw Rugg not look like Bumgarner and vice-versa…).

      • TedSpe said, on June 12, 2012 at 10:52 am

        The Hillbilly Bears/hahahah/”mowrmowrmowrgonna get my shotgun mowrmowrmowr blooooow his head off mowrmowrmowr

  52. Bozo said, on June 12, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Hey Flav, I was only kidding with the Blow it out your ass post last night.

    • chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 10:43 am

      It was pretty funny, tho…

  53. blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Weatherproof games: Nationals-Blue Jays, Red Sox-Marlins and Padres-Mariners

    Pirates-Orioles are expected to be hit with thunderstorms midway through their series opener, but the storms should not cause a postponement. Yankees-Braves will probably see the Turner Field grounds crew roll out the tarp in the middle innings, but the delay won’t be lengthy. Diamondbacks-Rangers should be able to complete their game before the rain arrives in Arlington, but they could be looking at a late-inning delay to start their series.

  54. blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Bum should be a fairly good bet against the ‘stros, albeit, he has not as effective against right-handed hitters this season, allowing 62 hits in 232 at-bats (.267 BA), including all eight of his home runs.

  55. willieD said, on June 12, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Over on FG site was an article by d cameron entitled “buyers-sellers-holders” about what category teams fall into, the timing of making a move now or later, and factoring in the added WC into which teams would do what. Comments after are great too, bring up interesting points (tho mostly about Nats). Two teams we face next, Stros and Ms, would definitely be sellers.
    so…where would uprgrade what you have if you are SF? And, anything interesting on either of these two that might be worthwhile additions to what we have? Do the “seller” teams really have anything worth buying?

    • blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 11:31 am

      I’ve already endorsed a deal for Lowrie. I have him on one of my FL teams and he is playing great ball for the Astros. Regarding the Mariners, grab Ackley . . . he is an unbelievable “buy low” candidate due to his mediocre season. He was lights out last year and his draft pedigree is Gold. Even with his down year, I doubt that Seattle would be stupid enough to get rid of him. Anywho, those are the two players that I would try to trade for.

  56. blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Lincecum’s fastball velocity has been an oft-cited reason for his struggles. So you can judge for yourself, here are his per-start averages, going from Start No. 1 to 13: 90.0 90.8, 90.0, 89.8, 88.8, 89.7, 91.1, 89.5, 89.9, 91.7, 90.6, 91.0, 90.3.

    • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 12:19 pm

      It’s not as simple as saying it’s velocity or not. 90-91 is plenty if he throws it where wants to, even 95 is not enough if he doesn’t. It seems there is a nuance there that many are missing- 90/91 is just batting practice if he has no command of it.
      So, if one follows- it is velocity and it isn’t.

  57. twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Lowrie: we have no inkling that Astros would trade him. If they would, it’s worth pursuing. But as I’ve pointed out- he’s been grossly overvalued here. Nate and the Crawdad would have been plenty, but Kieschnick’s injury derails that. Despite struggling, Peguero is still highly regarded, he and Mudbug would be more than enough to get it done.

    First base:

    Possible, but with 7 weeks before the deadline, too soon to say they’d consider a trade. Youklis is only a consideration if the Sox eat almost all of his salary, and he’s very possibly done anyway. Worth very little but still a consideration because I’d have to say that Pablo could use a back up now.I think his situation is very tenuous for a couple dozen reasons. Flavor mentioned Derrek Lee and he’s said to be considering returning, but he wants a lot of money and I don’t SF paying 20 million or so for him- that’s what they’d be paying, in essence.
    Most likely- they deal for another veteran middle infielder and a reliever. Longshot but not to ruled out: Pablo traded to AL.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 12, 2012 at 12:58 pm

      It is really hard for me to see Sandoval being traded but if he was he what do you think he would bring back in return?

  58. snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    The lack of power on the Giants will, I think, eventually catch up with them to stop them from a division win, if not bolstered before the deadline, or maybe find a way to play Hector a lot more. SF is at 35 HRs for the season, dregs of the NL next to the Pads at 34. Dodgers only have 43, but Kemp has been out a lot. Plus, LA’s slg is better at .394 (8th in NL) compared to Giants at .379 (14th). Shudder to think what would happen to Giants slg. if Melky were out for an extended period. Hopefully, Panda being back will bring up the HR and slg numbers that were depressed in his absence, but even with him, the team is underpowered with an OF that does not hit many, and Posey essentially the only other guy that hits ’em out. Any HR in a game these days is like a godsend to the pitching staff. SF runs scored is sitting at 11th in NL 3.92 rpg. Dodgers are 4th with a 4.35 rpg, that’s a huge differential. If SF can bring that up to around 8th and just over 4 rpg, with their pitching they should be good to go for at least a WC spot…

    • chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:02 pm

      SLG is a good stat, but like most, it is not the end-all be-all stat. Some of the aruguments against SLG is: is a double really worth twice as much as a single? A triple three times? Many have argued that it is a flawed stat.

      Anyway, I beg to differ…I think the Giant can continue to win by playing small ball, being agressive on the basepaths (taking the extra bag, etc.), but they must ALSO play very good D, and continue to get very good pitching.

      Believe me, I would like to see them add a bat (20-25 HRs and 80+ RBIs), but I do not believe that it is necessary for them to win the division.

  59. unca_chuck said, on June 12, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Lotsa time left. Guys just need to healthy up for the summer.

    As far as Timmy jim goes, it seems that when he tries to throw hard, they all go up and in (to a RH hitter).

    Is it the dreaded arm slot? Release point? I don’t frigging know, but SOME of this does seem to be mechanical.

  60. dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 12, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    All the talk about Lincecum’s mindset, control, velocity, etc. Maybe he’s injured. It is hard to tell with his unorthodox delivery but he’s looked strange to me coming off the mound more than a couple of times.

    • Bozo said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:29 pm

      I haven’t really checked it out much, but I did notice in the First inning, when he walked everyone, his right foot was in front of the rubber. While the second inning, when he struck em out, it seemed to be on the rubber. Much more practiced eyes than mine have been looking at tape so I doubt that’s it. It seemed to me his pitches were rising in the first but sinking some in the second, so I was thinking it might be how he was landing on the mound or something.

    • zumie said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:30 pm

      He seems to be falling off farther to the left sometimes than usual, with a little hop step, too, sometimes. I don’t remember that happening as much in the past.

  61. Flavor said, on June 12, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    I’ll get a thread up in a few hours. Twin or Snarkk, I think both of you have access to post a thread, knock yerself put if you want to take a swing at it today

  62. zumie said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Someone asked how I see games on TV….I have the MLB package on DirectTV satellite.
    How about the Angels coming back to beat the Dodgers last night? Groovy!
    —–
    Also finished the Hatfield and McCoy mini-series on the History Channel. Pretty well done, and I guess with some actual historical accuracy here and there.

  63. twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    You can’t talk about their HR and slugging numbers without making a distinction between home and road numbers. If you don’t you’re presenting a biased argument designed to fit an erroneous and preconceived notion. We are tied for 4th in HR on the road, and are 2nd in slugging. I have no idea why some are so resistant to an extremely significant difference- but don’t fear , I will remind all about the intentional distortion each time it’s presented.

    • Nipper said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:01 pm

      Being “erroneous” and having “preconceived notions” is as common as apple pie on the web.

    • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:29 pm

      Of course anybody CAN talk about comparing teams aggregate power stats. YOU can make a distinction between home and away on all stats as much as you want. Go for it. If the power splits away are as you say, then that means SF’s power stats at ATT are obviously worse than the opposition’s — and that brings down the aggregate stats to where they are. Texas’ power display over the past weekend vs. the Giants lack of same is an obvious example. Why not just claim all aggregate stats are worthless because they don’t show each team’s home and away performance irregularities? Presenting the numbers as they are is not “intentional distortion”, they exist and are true as I presented. I made an opinion about what they may portend. BF is quite right on calling you out on seeing nefarious intent where none exists. Only Dos Equis’ most interesting man in the world can tell the palm reader to “be careful”…

      • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:03 pm

        I’ve explaioned this a kazillion times and it’s very simple; they are not goping to hit well at home so get used to it. they will pitch well at home. They will well on the road and pitch about a run and half worse. I’ve provide the numbers before-they are not arguable. And I haven’t read whatever this latest “calling out” is and I don’t intend to- Craig is never right to call me out.
        “Why not just claim all aggregate stats are worthless because they don’t show each team’s home and away performance irregularities?” They do show that, you really need a primer.

      • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:12 pm

        You’re right, aggregate stats are meaningless.
        That’s why the players get paid largely based on them…

      • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:13 pm

        “If the power splits away are as you say, then that means SF’s power stats at ATT are obviously worse than the opposition’s — and that brings down the aggregate stats to where they are” I’ve never cited aggregate stats, WTF are you even talking about? The numbers for SF at home are theirs, nobody else’s numbers at ATT affect those.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:13 pm

        It appeared that you thought “aggregate” stats in this case meant the offensive numbers at ATT for both us and the visitors-combined. no other way to construe this gobble-de-gook:
        “If the power splits away are as you say, then that means SF’s power stats at ATT are obviously worse than the opposition’s — and that brings down the aggregate stats to where they are” Actually, visitors hit worse than we do at ATT across the board- even slugging and OPS- only HRs do we get buried.

  64. chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Thanks, Michael. And again, here is the “ballpark factor” stats.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

    The point (opinion) I was making (and I still stand behind it) in regards to snarkk’s comment (lack of power on the Giants part will eventually catch up with them) was that I do not think the Giants need to change things up (hit more HRs or increase the SLG) significantly to win the West.

    • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:50 pm

      Then we disagree. The team plays half at home, half on the road. They may be able to sneak into a WC spot without a power upgrade by the deadline, and that is the position I guessed they will be in at the end, but I am of the opinion they can’t win the division with such low overall power, regardless of whether Timmy finds himself. This team has more speed, but it looks now like maybe 40-50 fewer HRs than the 2010 squad. I would sacrifice one speedster for a guy, regardless of position, that can hit 25 HRs. Like Beltran, I think it likely that Sabes will again try to upgrade power sometime before the deadline…

  65. chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Interesting that some of the ball parks that are often referred to as “bandboxes” are actually below the 1.0 threshold (therefore rate as a park where the pitcher has the advantage), such as Minute Maid (Houston) at 21st and Citizens (Philly) at 22nd.

    • Nipper said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:23 pm

      Juiced Park in Houston would be a cute name.

  66. blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Justin Havens of ESPN Stats & Information points out, it’s the impact of Lincecum’s lost fastball velocity on his changeup that is perhaps most responsible for his poor performance. Consider that the difference in average velocity between his fastball and changeup this season is 7.0 mph; last season it was 8.5. Opposing hitters’ numbers have approved accordingly: He has surrendered a .237 batting average, .770 OPS and 9.5 percent walk rate on changeups in 2012, after .160, .490 and 6.0 in 2011.

    For me, that is quite a difference. You’re welcome to discount the obvious loss of fastball velocity, but unless Lincecum can restore some of that lost fastball velocity, i.e., improving the separation in speed between the two pitches, there’s not much hope of him restoring his status as an “Ace” in my opinion.

    Personally, I think there is NO chance of that happening. Right now, we are all viewing the deterioration in Timmy’s status as the Giants number one starter. Quite frankly, I have voiced that this would happen in before the end of his current contract. I had no idea that it would happen this quickly. Last year, was the “plateau” year and this year he is definitely in decline. In short, the 2 year contract is looking like a mistake, but better that, then the alternative of what the Giants wanted to grant him (4-5 years) or what Tim and his agent wanted (8 years . . . OMG!).

    So, what do you hope for? Me, I am hoping that he can string some great starts together and they trade him, whereby they get some semblance of value in return. Currently, you wouldn’t be able to get much for him.

    • blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:13 pm

      Delete “in”

      “. . . in before the end . . .”

  67. eddacker said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Blade quoted: “Justin Havens of ESPN Stats & Information points out, it’s the impact of Lincecum’s lost fastball velocity on his changeup that is perhaps most responsible for his poor performance.”

    I have been saying this all along. Whether it is speed or location, without being able to throw the dart at any time for a strike, his slnk, cut or change is not going to be as effective. Especially because many of those pitches are out of the strike zone when he is dominating batters. When a hit me fastball and/or an off-speed pitch firmly in the strike zone is the only way to avoid walks it is not Seabiscuit on form..

    MEGA BIG FLAVOR SHADY has already addressed the injury theory and I do not think the ‘rubber-band’ is all stretched out. It may take longer than anyone wants, but he will be back.

  68. chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    Well, the numbers are there (velocity diff) between FB and CHG, but I don’t think it is the be-all-end-all to Timmy be an effective pitcher.

    I think the issue is more a lack of control and command. I read a piece the other day where the author (and I paraphrase) stated that Timmy may have to re-invent himself (and this has been discussed by others, too). The analogy was Greg Maddux. Maddux too lost his fastball velocity after a couple of years, but with exquisite command and ability to mix his pitches, he remained a dominant pitcher.

    I think with the proper adjustments, Timmy can still be an effective pitcher. Dominant? An ace? Probably not, but still effective.

    I agree that we are lucky that the contract was only two years.

    Even if Tim strings together some quality starts (as mentioned by Blade), I am unsure the Giants would get a lot in return at this point. And, to be honest, I do not think the Giants would trade him, anyway.

  69. chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    For those clamoring for “another bat” I thought Shea’s piece from today was a good read…

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/11/SPVM1P0BP5.DTL

  70. snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    All the opinions out there about why Timmeh is sucking — I’ll add another one. Not an opinion, really, but a theory that has little basis in fact, as do most. In the offseason, Timmeh embarked, reportedly, on a fairly aggressive swimming regimen in a counter current pool, or whatever. So, he conditioned in that way, which apparently aided in dropping his weight. What does swimming do to the back and arm and leg muscles used to pitch a baseball? Especially in a motion so rooted in flexibility as his? With the US Open here this week, I harken back to years ago when Johnny Miller was the top PGA dog, and he spent the golf winter offseason doing weight work and heavy outdoor exercise, thus bulking up, thinking it would help him hit the ball farther. To his chagrin, his next season sucked, which he blamed on being too bulked up, and inflexible for a proper golf swing. Maybe this swimming thing has messed up Timmeh’s flexibility needed to make that crazy motion as repeatable and controllable as needed….

    • TedSpe said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm

      I don’t know. I’ve heard swimming is the one exercise that has no drawbacks or harmful side affects. Mainly because while you’re using your muscles the water is massaging them simultaneously. In fact, I remember distinctly hearing Buster Crabbe say that in an interview with Bob Wilkins on Creature Features

      • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:13 pm

        Well, that settles it then.
        What was Buster Crabbe’s WHIP?…

      • blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:13 pm

        It has to be accurate and the “gospel” if it was on Creature Features.

        🙂

    • chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:13 pm

      Well, there was the year when conditioning (or lack-thereof) was blamed for Timmy’s woes. And he made some adjustments, and they worked. I still see the lack of command (and control) as the principal reason for his problems (and not the loss of velocity on the fastball). So, the question becomes “what” is contributing to the lack of command? Loss of velocity is a normal occurance for almost all pitchers. Many continue being effective after losing a few MPH on their heater (I use Maddux as case a case in point…he touched 93 or so regularly in his first couple of years…but saw a noticeable decline in velocity afterwards).

      • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:20 pm

        I’m with you on this, ChiP. Since we all are told ad nauseum that there is nothing physically WRONG with him, I’ve figured along with a natural loss of some heat on the FB, it’s mostly a mental deal. But, your point is well taken, and as I’ve thought about it, just because he’s supposedly physically OK, doesn’t mean he’s not physically DIFFERENT from past years. So, what could be different? Lost weight. Different type of conditioning in the offseason = swimming? Those are the two main things I can think of that could impact his flexibility, balance and motion, and hence throw off his command. And, once the command is off for a period of time, the mental thing comes into play. I just think they need to skip start him after Seattle, and see if that helps. They did it to Cain, Sanchez and Zito in the past, so why not?…

    • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:23 pm

      His lack of control and command are not theories…
      But I find it amusing that none of the people who trashed me for saying his double-double diet was not good for him are acknowledging that Tim confirmed it. And with him saying he gained over 20 pounds due to it, it also destroys the absurd claim that he was just an “occasional” pigger outer.

      • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:32 pm

        I think he’s getting bad advice about weight.
        Now that he’s lost weight coming into this season, he’s gotten far worse. When a small guy like him drops 20, it’s huge as a percentage of his body weight, and likely impacts strength. If Panda dropped 20 from 270, it’s good, but not nearly enough.
        Timmeh needs to put some back on…

      • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm

        I’ve said that- and where that can definitely be a factor is obviously stamina. We’ve seen games when he hit 93MPH in the first inning and never did it again.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:54 pm

        Actually, you are absolutely correct that diet is important (i.e., I’ve never trashed you for that), since I believe it unequivocally. Diet is one aspect that everyone should pay attention too, especially athletes. It is something we all have control over.

        I wont try to convert anyone here, but in the last 12 months, I have been evolving from a carnivore to vegetarian to a vegan diet. Still not there though, as I still consume some dairy products (e.g., cheese and cream for my coffee). The evidence/information available is irrefutable that an animal and dairy based diet will kill (cancer) you slowly. Second, it has everything to do with energy – you feel much better if you are on a plant based diet. Absolute bullshit that you can’t acquire the protein (we take in way too much already) or Calcium (propaganda from the dairy industry) you need. B-12 and D are probably the only supplements you need if you are on a vegan diet. In any event, what you said about Timmy’s diet has credence and I would not discount it or make fun of anyone who says that.

    • ewisco said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:48 pm

      I was a competitive swimmer for ten years (Ladera Oaks and Santa Clara Swim Club, 7th in the US, 11th in the world 400 Medley Relay). It will loosen and lengthen muscles, not tighten them. I was incredibly flexible (not so much anymore!). Actually sounds like a perfect exercise for a pitcher.

      • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:06 pm

        Sounds good.
        Zito is banned by contract from surfing, apparently, and he swore the surfing helped his pitching — I think it was the repeated pulling against the water to get out to the break. So why isn’t ‘t every friggin pitcher near water in the offseason on a swimming regimen?…

      • TedSpe said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:33 pm

        Well, not everyone knows *how* to swim

      • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:36 pm

        Good one… 🙂

  71. chipower9 said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Melky is back in the line-up:

    1. Blanco (L) CF
    2. Theriot (R) 2B
    3. Cabrera (S) LF
    4. Posey (R) C
    5. Sandoval (S) 3B
    6. Schierholtz (L) RF
    7. Belt (L) 1B
    8. Crawford (L) SS
    9. Bumgarner (R) P

  72. DJLoo said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    I firmly believe that the Giants have kept Huff this long because he is mentally ill and they care about him.
    I also think he might be gone before the upcoming road trip…

    • twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:27 pm

      They’ve kept Huff because they won’t commit to Belt. This isn’t a argument saying they should or shouldn’t.

    • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:37 pm

      Mentally ill? That’s pretty strong. Although depression is such an illness, the term you use is a little broad and kind of unfair to use, IMO. Anyway, I’ll venture this guess — he’ll get some DH time on the upcoming AL parks trip. If he doesn’t pull out of the baseball funk, I think he’s gone before the deadline or if SF falls to 7 or 8 back of LA…

  73. Alleykat said, on June 12, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Damm Frank Cady died…Green Acres …. Sam Drucker general store owner..At the ripe old age of 96…RIP

    • DJLoo said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:00 pm

      I’m not sure I can go on…

    • TedSpe said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:01 pm

      That’s too bad. R.I.P. My mom met him in the ’50’s when she was an extra in the Kirk Douglas movie THE INDIAN FIGHTER when it filmed in Bend, Oregon. Hooterville Forever !!

  74. snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    We seem to talk here a lot about physical conditioning of the players. And, the scope of the role in it that the team plays. No wonder, it’s important. Maybe that can be the subject of a thread someday — physical conditioning, the role of team and player. I’ll do a little research, after my Burger and Branch…

  75. twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Why don’t you do a page? So we don’t get too many pages, I’ll take my therapy page down if you want to. Looks like everybody shot their wad on it already.

    • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:34 pm

      Leave yours up. If I do it, I’ll need a bit of time to see what’s out there on the topic. I don’t want to put a POS thread out there as my first one. I’m particularly interested in the practicalities of private trainers vs. team staff. Tomorrow I’m out to Olympic with the older Snarkkette to see a practice round and buy a coupla outrageously priced memorabilia trinkets or hats. Then, the in-laws are in through Sunday. Maybe next week sometime, since BF already gave a green light…

      • snarkk said, on June 12, 2012 at 4:50 pm

        As for putting out a second thread, that one can be a POS… 🙂


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