A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Quelle Surprises?

Posted in Uncategorized by pawliekokonuts on July 3, 2012

Surprise. According to the Online Etymological Dictionary, “surprise” came to us in English by way of the Frogs, I mean the French:

Late 14c., “unexpected attack or capture,” from M.Fr. surprise “a taking unawares,” from noun use of pp. of O.Fr. surprendre “to overtake,” from sur- “over” (see sur-) + prendre “to take,” from L. prendere, contracted from prehendere “to grasp, seize” (see prehensile). Meaning “something unexpected” first recorded 1590s, that of “feeling caused by something unexpected” is c.1600. Meaning “fancy dish” is attested from 1708.

What is sweeter, or more painful, than surprise? Bishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, and many others, speak of “the God of surprises.” A friend of mine, Joe Bergin, gave his retirement sermon as an Episcopal priest using that theme. Jay Bruce improbably missing Angel Pagan’s fly ball on Sunday was a gift from the gods and goddesses of surprises. Quelle surprise! It’s a surprise we celebrate. Undoubtedly Jay Bruce and Reds fans felt punished by the gods and goddesses of surprise.

You might easily say the huge, unforgettable sweet pleasure of 2010 was how much of a surprise it was. How was it that the Giants won it all in a year when others supposedly had more talent, skills, and drive?

Which brings me to this year. What are the biggest surprises of the 2012 season thus far [in medias res, as classicists at Edddddddacker’s Oxbridge might say]? Here’s my surprise short list (SSL):

1. The Time of Troubles for Tim Lincecum. I am hoping the worst is over, but the duration and dire drama of his slump were alarming.

2. Ryan Vogelsong’s 2011 performance is not a fluke. He’s for real. Really for real.

3. I thought Freddy would be back.

4. Barry Zito’s performance being this good even this late in the season.

5. Melky.

6. Brian Wilson being sidelined for the whole year and Santiago Casilla doing so superbly.

7. Speed. The Giants with speed?

Speaking of surprises, the Sun Dressed Goddess was a chimera, a dream, an illusion, a trickster. She surprised us into thinking she was an oracle. We were led by lust, not wisdom. Surprise, surprise. Who will surprisingly take her place?

What would you add to the list of surprises for the 2012 season?

p.s. You Francophones, does my title need an S added to “quelle”? RIBBIT.

p.p.s. Time for my meds.

221 Responses

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  1. blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    K and K excuse # 101 – He never got into rhythm.*

    * I thought jazz musicians only had rhythm.

  2. pawliekokonuts said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    I am going to dare speak the unspeakable: have pundits back in SF broached the taboo of taboos? Would you trade Timmy? Where? For whom? (I feel like I have stained a white dress shirt with ketchup just asking this.)

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:39 pm

      Why? Perfectly legitimate question in my opinion. Yes, I would trade him. Outside the division. For whom will take a bit more thought . . . Good topic for one of the “Stable Boys.”

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:41 pm

      Besides, Flavor’s new Code of Conduct explicitly prohibits that a fellow Flapper can not be tortured, including enhanced interrogation techniques such as water-boarding.

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:02 pm

        I love water boarding and all forms of torture for that matter. Hell. If it were up to me, I’d make that shit standard practice. I’m partial to the pillory myself. Strap ’em in, and let the fun begin…
        .50 a rock, and three for $1. I’d have Chuck Barris MC the shit, and the ratings would go through the roof.

    • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:59 pm

      Who would even take him? Am I nuts, but why do I think anybody who thinks somebody would trade for Timmy without us eating most of the contract should just have us trade Huff too! Yeah, everybody wants Timmy like everybody wants Huff.

    • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:02 pm

      BTW, nice opening post Kokonut.

  3. blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:42 pm

    Wow! 19-0 CWS over Texas . . . Would have thought that score was transposed.

  4. Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    1:25 rain delay. Seriously, they shoulda white flagged this shit.

    “If the battle for civilization comes down to the wimps versus the barbarians, the barbarians are going to win.”
    ~Thomas Sowell

    Like I said, if you’re gonna lose, you might as well white flag the shit.

    • zumie said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:55 pm

      Some people aren’t quitters.

      • zumiee said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:04 pm

        And not sure what the Sowell quote is supposed to mean. Tim’s a wimp? That’s pretty ignorant. Tim blocked the plate with Billingsley barrelling in on him a few days ago. Tim wants to win out there. There’s not a lack of heart or effort. He just can’t control his pitches sometimes for some reason. He’s not consistent.

  5. twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    Why woud they trade him now, with his value at an all-time low and undoubedly having to eat some salary? I don’t think it makes sense at all. If they could get Alex Rios that’s one thing… I think I’m kidding.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:01 pm

      True, he wouldn’t get you much right now. So, you think he is going to get better? How much better? Cy Young better? Yeah, I can see a couple of starts where he is winning, coupled with the Giants out of the pennant race, then you make a move . . . However, the question is legit. However, I will clarify – If the Giants do not make the playoffs or they sputter in the playoffs, then you trade him in the off season. He has shown zip, nada, zero this season to think he will ever get back to being Tim “Cy Young” Lincecum or anywhere close to that level.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:10 pm

        Off season is an entirely 100% different question.

    • DJLoo said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:03 pm

      What if you had to make a post-season roster today? Zito over Tim?

      • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:05 pm

        No, they both go Loo . . . Someone else would be left off.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:19 pm

        Before today Zits would have been off again. After? I dunno- but neither of them are going instead of Cain, Bumgarner, or Vogie. If you mean a reliever, maybe both go.

  6. DJLoo said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    DMD: I remember being physically nauseous hearing about the Cloninger game back in ’66. If I remember correctly, there was one other thing unusual about that game by today’s standards. A player actually played while his child was being born. Generally that’s what they did back then. The player was Felipe Alou. The baby’s name was Moises…

    Another great moment in trivia brought to you by DJLoo.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:17 pm

      No wonder Flav bestows “Gold” upon every one of your posts. Can’t get that shit nowhere else.
      Speaking of shit, how bout one of your Yonkers specials? I remember that one night you gave Flav and me a hot tip and did the play by play over the internet. What should have taken approx. 1:58.2, lasted over 5 mins. I’m still not sure if our (Jay) Trotter ever crossed the finish line.

      Oh well, nothing ventured…nothing ventured. 😀

  7. ewisco said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    you can see what happens when you bring in one of your setup guys in a non-setup situation. you would think that boch would know by now.

  8. zumiee said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    The Padres got a nice thing going against the D-Backs at the moment, 7-0.

  9. Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    My biggest surprises this year. Not much on the Giants, Melky and a catcher, Sanchez, stepping up as a back-up catcher with a bat was a good thing. But trading Sanchez for anything was worth the trade, the fact it was Melky was just sweet.

    The commish never seems to run out of ideas I don’t like. 1: The one game extra play-off. I might be able to talk myself into making sense of that for the extra tickets it will probably sell in September from more teams being involved in the play-off races. But #2 is just bizarre. Inter league all year because of odd teams in each league. I’m hearing his next trick is to have the DH in the NL.

    • zumiee said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:19 pm

      Interleague all season is a necessity if you have 15 teams in each league. They had to fix the imbalance. It was ridiculous to have 4 teams in the AL West, and 6 teams in the NL Central.

      • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:26 pm

        I understand your point but it doesn’t mean I like it. They should just add two teams, have 4 divisions of 4 teams in each league. There are your extra teams in the play-offs. That way Oklahoma City and San Antonio can get teams while the A’s will still have nowhere to go!

      • zumiee said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:30 pm

        Next year’s schedule does sort of take away the last bit of anything special about interleague play. It truly becomes just sort of routine.

      • zumiee said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:34 pm

        Granted, there’ll stil be the occasional cool things, like an NL team getting to play in Yankee stadium, that sort of thing. But it’s never been particularly efficient. In all the years of interleague play, how many games have the Giants played in Yankee stadium so far?

  10. manny said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    The D-Backs worry me more in the long run than the Dodgers.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:25 pm


  11. zumiee said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Sheesh, what happened to the vaunted NL pitching tonight? Scores: 13-12, 8-7, 10-3, 11-1, 9-3….

  12. Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    Who’s the big PUSSY that has Jordan Zimmermann on his Flap fantasy team?
    I bet he’s gonna vote for Ronald Regan in this year’s election.

    • zumiee said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:32 pm

      Somewhere there’s a therapist that’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.

  13. Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    “Lincecum ended the day with a 6.08 ERA. He ranks 89th out of 90 major league pitchers that have made at least 15 starts.” I’m tellin’ ya, if he just got a goddamn haircut…

  14. Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    Seriously, when things are going this bad, why wouldn’t he cut his goddamn hair? Whether he’s superstitous or not, Tim needs to try something. Anything. Please.

    • Flavor said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:48 pm

      He did cut his hair, earlier this season. He should continue to try things that might actually affect his performance. Cutting his fucking hair isn’t one of those things. He could start by lobbying for the right to pitch against only shitty teams. That, of course, won’t fly in the playoffs.
      If the playoffs started tomorrow, I think Zito gets left off and Tim is in, just for what he’s done in the PS. And I think the rotation goes Cain, Bum, Voggy and Timmy would get Game 4.
      Just my 2 cents.

      • DJLoo said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:52 pm

        How about an afro?

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:55 pm

        I think you’re partially correct. That would be the starting four, but something tells me Bochy would Keep Zito on the roster as a reliever and waste a goddamn spot. Bochy would “make good” for Zito’s playoff omission in 2010. But let’s not but the cart before the horse. Let’s make the postseason first, THEN worry about our 25-man roster.

    • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:58 pm

      I think you and I and BF are the only one’s here who voted for Zito over Timmy, in your CSNBA poll, to have a better ERA at the end of the year. Did anybody else vote for Zito?

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:16 pm

        Berger, I think you, Flav and I are the lone “13 Percenters” on the Flap.
        At least the ones who’ll admit that that voted for Zito. That actually hurts to say that.
        Now I know how the people who voted for Jimmy Carter feel like.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:22 pm

        How would you Zito people feel if he lost out, but only because Lincecum was lights out the rest of the way? As much as I totally distrust Zito, if he pulled off what he’s never done here- pitch reasonably well for a full season, I would have zero problem with him having the lower ERA if Tim was also pitching well.

  15. DJLoo said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    The Giants came to Yankee Stadium only once for interleague play that I can remember, Zumie. I think it was 2002. Bonds put one in the upper deck in a day game on the weekend…

    • Macdog said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:12 pm

      I went to the third game of that series. It should’ve been a classic matchup — Bonds vs. Clemens — but chicken-shit Torre ruined it by walking Bonds every time he came up.

  16. Sportdude said, on July 3, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    Lets step back from the cliff. Of course anythings possible, but to go from one of the best “1st 5 years” of all time to the worst pitcher in the league? He may not win anymore Cy Youngs, but he will bounce back. He will have an ERA in the high 3’s by year end. He wins 4 times in July. Write it down so I come back to it in 3 weeks!

    • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:12 pm

      I love your positive vibes. I wish I could feel them too. I believe Timmy will get better. I don’t think he is done, but he is not a 20 mil pitcher anymore unless he gets very serious about his weight and conditioning. And even then I have doubts because his delivery is so complex.

  17. Sportdude said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    DLoo My wife and I went to the game the night before upper deck shot. 6/72003..I know the date because they were selling shirts with Bonds on it. Historic 1st regular season game for SF in NY since the move west. We flew in, went straight to the stadium from the hotel. The NY fans were amazingly gracious. I was stunned by how many Giants fans were there..My one and only trip the Yankee stadium..

    • DJLoo said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:11 pm

      I was there too, Sport. Don’t remember one thing about the game (including the year) other than my shitty seats way out in LF…

  18. twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    I’ve thought about it since this was asked earlier. Before tonight Tim would have been on the roster, Zits out. Now, they’d both stay. Depending on the match ups, either one could start with the other at the ready. If they advance, one is out.IMO.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm

      But both being on the roster is a goddam waste of a spot, no?

      • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:27 pm

        I’m telling you what they would do and if there’s one area where I excel- it’s knowing what they’ll do with roster spots, call ups, etc. As much as I thnk Kontos looks to be a keeper, Tim or Zits over George is a fucking no brainer.

      • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:39 pm

        I don’t know how smart Kontos is. He comes in, throws two beauties, and then throws an 0-2 pitch over the middle. The 1st two pitches snapped, the 3rd was a lazy pitch. Two runs scored. The progression did not make any sense. You expect more from a pro. More thought and more competitiveness would help that guy. Hopefully that was just a brain fart and he is better than that.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:54 pm

        What does throwing a bad pitch have to with being smart? Dumb would be if he tried to throw the bad pitch. He hung a pitch, but he didn’t TRY to. Cy Young won over 500 games and probably hung 1000 pitches. Matt Cain probably hung minimum half a dozen in the perfecto. How many times have seen a guy JUST miss a hanger? ALL the time. This has nothing to do with George’s brain, his competitiveness, none of that-he threw a bad pitch..

      • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:06 pm

        I hope you are correct. I did not think that pitch was a hanger, I think it was just a poor selection. A lot of our pitchers seem to get too much plate on 0-2. It drives me nuts. If that was the pitch Kontos wanted he should have at least set it up by throwing a high hard one above the zone to give the hitter a harder time timing it. But the pitch he threw on 0-2 is typically used as a sneaky curve to steal strike one. It was not a good choice for a hitter in protect mode. That was a gift.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:17 pm

        Well, if you really think that was the pitch he wanted to throw, there’s not much to discuss. Part of the problem, IMO, is Hector, and I love the kid. I’m just not sure George was going to throw the desired pitch in that situation- a bouncer. Any of the pitchers would be more confident doing that wih Buster.

  19. Alleykat said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    Fuck this gamee was over before it started.No way Timmy was gonna hold up in that heat.My ? was why is Bochy pulling Panda in this game,when this is the time he needs to go 9 and lose extra poundage,these type games he could be dropping a shit load of Chalupa’s off that belly.

    • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:41 pm

      Did you see the play Panda made on the bunt that was popped up this weekend ? If you did, you’d lay off the insults.

  20. ewisco said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    i’ve been thinking about PK’s topic all day and i’ve struggled. I’ve thought about blanco, but i remember that he came into spring as the mvp of the Venezuelan league, had recovered from an injured wrist and had a good spring. so nice, but not terribly surprising. Posey: can he make it back, can he play everyday? I remember that BF ran a few pieces talking about how hard it was for a catcher to come back from that kind of injury and play a lot (ref. Joe Mauer) but it doesn’t really surprise me that he’s back. i think bochy has handled him really well. Hector not a surprise, he’s an improvement over whitey/stewart but he doesn’t impress me as much as he impresses others. Belt and crawford, not really surprising though BC obviously struggled out of the gate defensively which was a surprise but easily explained by rookie nerves. Theriot is a bit of a surprise, though a key player to a world series winner, so. Timmy a surprise, though how many of us have always figured he was a pitch away from trouble, we just thought it would be injury before just plain ineffective. Vogey’s continued excellence is a bit of a surprise. maybe, as i write this, he becomes my pick. Pablo getting fat and in trouble is a bit of a surprise but again, that writing was on the wall as well. Zito, he just loves to torment us so not a surprise there. the relievers have been a bit of a surprise as affeldt and lopez have struggled in spots where i didn’t expect them to. Casilla not really a surprise after last year. wilson hurt, not a surprise. melky and pagan, we weren’t sure what we were getting exactly so they were a bit of a surprise. But it seems to me that i go into the season with a fairly clear picture of what i’m dealing with, watching/listening/reading about ST games, so not really terribly surprised this year about this team. I will say that I *am* surprised about the nats and the pirates and to some degree philly. and i guess that’s where i keep coming back to: not surprised by the components of my team but am surprised by other teams who’s components i’m not really familiar with.

    • DJLoo said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:20 pm

      I’m surprised anyone can type that much…

    • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:37 pm

      I’m surprised by how many people always seem to think Affeldt is pitching poorly even when he’s pitching well. That’s not really directed at you,Ewisco, you just reminded me of it. He’s been very good this year-certainly better any except Romo and Casilla.

      • ewisco said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:08 pm

        not “badly” but there’s been hiccups. which is to be expected with mere mortals but it worries me.

  21. Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    I’m surprised to see an 8:05 start tomorrow. I don’t remember seeing that happen before.

    • tedspe said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:37 pm

      It’s called “time zones”
      Berger..ya gotta get out more

  22. blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Dennis is full of shit again. Your Pussy Flap team is in 1st place, but don’t act like you know more than anyone else here, especially about you being the “Lone Ranger” regarding Zits. As much as I hate to say it – I indicated he was a good 4-5 starter before the season began and he has been more than that to date. In short, the ERA thing is a slam dunk for him vs.Timmy.

    Of course, this doesn’t excuse the Giants for the outrageous contract they signed him to and within a nano second of me hearing about it on the news, I was vehemently against it . . . However, shit happens and you move on. In other words, it’s a waste of time to whine about something that happened years ago.

    The easy bet is saying that Barry is going to beat Timmy in ERA this year. How about this one . . . Will Timmy be here next season? I say no.

    • Berger said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:44 pm

      Are you thinking trade? Who would take on that contract with the way he is performing? Are you saying he has a good 2nd half and we use the opportunity to trade him? Do tell!

      • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:54 pm

        Berger, I doubt he will have a “good” 2nd half. That being said, he might string a few quality games together. Regardless, this is how I think it plays out insofar as your question . . .

        If we are in the hunt for the playoffs, Timmy obviously stays (as I said in an earlier post this evening). In my opinion, he only has to show his ability to strike out batters. Other aspects of his game that have gone south wont matter as much as him being able to still strike out batters. Why? Simply because GMs think anyone is still salvageable if they still have an “arm.” So, who would be the likely candidates that would take on his contract? All the usual suspects, e.g., Yankees, Boston, Texas, Angels and Phillies. Twenty million for one year is nothing for these teams. Pitching is always at a premium in MLB. If that is so, you are asking yourself, “Then why would the Giants trade him?” Simply because they have pitching and can afford to lose him, especially with what he will STILL want as far as a future contract is concerned.

    • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:07 pm

      Denny loves him some Zito, Steve..as far as trading Tim in the off season, you are basing everything on the presumption that he will not recover to pitch well. And you probably won’t understand this- but the worse he pitches, the less likely it is they would even consider trading him.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:16 pm

        Mike, I really think that he will continue to strike out people . . . Him being wild (walks), high ERA and WHIP are things that GMs will overlook, similar to what happened with Sanchez, i.e., KC thought they had a “live arm” and Dirrrrrty’s propensity to walk people was something they could correct, so they made the trade. I think something similar will occur with Tim.

        Hey, even if it doesn’t happen, we’re both right about the Giants not signing him for more than a 2 year contract. In fact, as I said earlier, I overestimated his abilities to even live up to that contract. Regardless, everyone here thought we were nuts to say that and it turns out we were right. I think Flav and a couple of other Flappers also thought his outrageous demands were delusional too. In any event, thank God we didn’t sign him to a 5 year contract, much less the 8 year contract him and his agent were demanding.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:39 pm

        Well, I’m not saying teams won’t want him even if he doesn’t pitch well, I’m saying we wouldn’t even entertain offers if he didn’t. The obvious caveat would be if we got offered Stanton and Nicole’s hotter sister..otherwise, they’d put him on a conditioning program and go to ST with a new start.

  23. Trent said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    Tim seems the most obvious surprise. On the positive side, there’s no one in the category of a 2010 Torres or 2011 Vogelsong. Few saw those coming. Blanco started out like one, but has become about what one would expect. Melky Pagan Posey Craw Belt Theriot Hector…reasonable to expect or predict their numbers.

    • tedspe said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:54 pm

      Trent, there’s a thing called a ,
      Use it sometimes 😉

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:56 pm

      Trent, I get your point and mostly agree with it. However, NO ONE expected Melky to have the year he is having. No one.

  24. tedspe said, on July 3, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    Ewisco, save that for your day. You might be dried out by then (insert gay-ass smiley face)

    • ewisco said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:12 pm

      oh just you wait. i’ll have angels weeping, men harrumphing ( i didn’t get an hurrumph outta that guy!) and women genuflecting.

      or not.

      nighty night you flappers you.

      • tedspe said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:34 pm

        haha!! I believe you!!

  25. blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    Pffffft! As the Tedster says, “Good Night Gentlemen and Miscreants” (insert question mark)*

    * Well, it’s something like that.

    • tedspe said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:44 pm

      Well, if nothing else..it’s an homage so thanks blade.
      Goodnight, gentlemen (question mark)

  26. willieD said, on July 3, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Apologies to any of you fantasy guys that have aceves, but I gotta admit I get a kick out of watching the low budget A’s kick Boston’s ass. High priced sox come into oaktown, score 3 runs in two games and drop them both. Just like in stew’s days, their cojones shrivel up here.

  27. eddacker said, on July 4, 2012 at 12:47 am

    Tim’s problems are mental. Not sure what could be done physically, but twin may.

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