A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

How Many Bad Lincecum Spring Starts Before You Start Worrying?

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on February 26, 2013

I, like most of you, could give less than 1 percent about spring training performances. I do think, though, that if you have a bunch of shitty pitching lines in the spring it’s a reason to worry about you going into the season. Of course, Barry Zito blew that theory out of the water last year after he pitched like Todd Van Poppel on a bad day for an entire spring only to stroll into Coors Field and throw a shutout.

Still, anything that becomes a pattern worries me. Timmy’s inability to get through 2 innings today (1.2, 4 hits, 0 bb’s, 1 K) is not the way to kick off his bounce back season. I couldn’t find his pitch selection/speeds at mlb.com. But whatever, it’s his first start of the spring. He said all the right things afterwards about *hitting all his spots* and how good he felt *mechanically* and the ball is coming out differently this year (in a + way) as opposed to last year.

And then he said something weird: “Last year, I didn’t have the will to sustain my pitching. I wasn’t strong enough. Now I feel like I am.”

I get it, he’s been working out and adding muscle. It’s better than his In and Out diet from 2011 and HAS to be better than his swimmer-training thing that led to the weight loss and a pitching line that included the worst ERA, by a mile, of any NL qualified starting pitcher last season.

But he used the word *will* which, as I’m translating what he probably meant, has a definition of, in part, a “desire to see something happen.” So either Timmy doesn’t understand the definition or he just wasn’t that motivated to *sustain* his pitching last year. But I’ll let our resident wordsmith Pawlie Kokonuts break the meaning of that sentence down (if he wants to).

And Timmy might want to look up the definition of the word *sustain* because it doesn’t really fit in that sentence, especially as it’s connected to the word *will*…….

I’m optimistic about Timmy’s 2013 season as of today. Mostly because I think that his increased strength will help him pitch longer in games. And maybe that’s partially what he meant with his quote……

But the rope I’m extending him is “Zito-like”, at least when compared to the length of Zito’s rope coming out of Spring Training last year. He better get his sh!t together because Bochy isn’t going to keep trotting him out there every fifth day like last year. This year, he’s gonna have to bring something more than a couple of shiny Cy Young trophies out the mound with him. He’s going to have to produce……..

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  1. Flavor said, on February 26, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    at least as far as today’s puss-NBA goes, that was a pretty decent brawl in the Dub’s game. And I liked Beed’s attitude that started it. He’s been a nice surprise this year (since I thought he was completely done prior to this season)

    • Flavor said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:30 am

      my bad, that was Lee, not beeds. Still Biedren’s has been half way decent this year.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:55 am

        Lee was sort of a puss about that. Got up in the dude’s kithcen then retreated to the bench as Curry gets thrown around like a rag doll.

  2. zumiee said, on February 26, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    Tim’s a concern, but a lot of starting pitchers look sketchy early in Spring Training. Kershaw and Billingsley got a little roughed up this week.
    —–
    Regarding being at Opening Days…..I think I was at Opening Day in 1984. And our seats were in the upper deck in centerfield. Pretty worthless seats for baseball, other than being able to say I was there, and just kind of share in the general good vibe of being there. In those seats, we couldn’t see the ball at all. We could only try to judge what was happening by watching how the fielders moved.

  3. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 26, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    So you’re saying Lincecum isn’t a Rhodes scholar? Sweet Jesus. He cut his hair. What more do you want?

    First start. Not worried. Yet.

  4. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 26, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    I’m more worried about Pill hitting 2 bombs today and reigniting the 1b platoon.

  5. Alleykat said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Didnt walk a guy,three 38 pitches 22 strikes.Nothing great,nothing bad.Topped out at 93.Got his work in,no worries from me.

    • chipower9 said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:38 am

      All good points, Kat. No worries now…but if he strings together a series of sub-par outings, it will be a mild pause for concern (especially if that happens once the season starts)…

  6. Flavor said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    not sure why there’s an ad showing up. They aren’t supposed to be showing ads on my site (and not because I didn’t upgrade to their bullshit upgrade. I had a deal with them when I got here that I don’t ever want ads on this site and they agreed to it at the time because of the traffic). So either we’ve dropped off the traffic map or someone at wordpress hit the wrong fucking button…….

    • zumiee said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:19 pm

      I’m not seeing the ad. What is it?

      • DJLoo said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:22 pm

        I’m seeing an ad for Vagisil, zumiee.

  7. Alleykat said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    If a team should have alittle concern of a player it should be the Angels.
    Rookie sensation Mike Trout,shows up to camp packing 241 lbs. Must of been hanging out with the Panda some this off-season.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:21 pm

      “Must of been hanging out with the Panda some this off-season.”
      Hangin’ out with the WS MVP would be a good career move for the kid..

  8. DJLoo said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    What are you worried about? You worry too much. Everything is beautiful.

  9. chipower9 said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    Like Dirt…not worried…yet.

  10. twinfan1 said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    I’m worried that Brett Tomko will be our opening day pitcher in 2024…

  11. DJLoo said, on February 26, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Look out Rusty Kuntz. The Winnipeg Jets have a guy named Grant Clitsome.

    • Macdog said, on February 26, 2013 at 9:17 pm

      Does he always shoot for the 5-hole?

  12. Bozo said, on February 27, 2013 at 5:29 am

    I’m probably wrong about this, but I just don’t remember Tim having a great Spring. I do remember that last year he kept saying he wasn’t worried about ST numbers and he’d be ready for for the season on opening day. I even recall Boch saying something like it wasn’t that easy, that it wasn’t like turning on a light switch and all would be right when the season started. So I see the conditioning this winter as a very good thing. No, he hasn’t picked up a few MPH and as far as I know, he’s not spotting the ball like Maddux but my gut says he’s going to have a good year.
    So I’m not worried at the moment about his Spring numbers. If he has a slow start, I don’t think the Giants will hesitate in putting him in the pen this year to work things out. Although, that would mean Chad Gaudin, come on down.

    • Flavor said, on February 27, 2013 at 5:54 am

      you are correct. His best spring was 2009 when he sported a 4.03 ERA. All other springs were worse, some ERA’s in the 6’s. Of course, Tim’s ERA for the 2012 regular season was 5.18 so…..

  13. Flavor said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:22 am

    Getting Timmy straight is a fairly huge concern. The Giants went 14-0 in Zito’s last 14 starts. Let that sink in for a sec. Anyone think that’s happening again? If Timmy stays in the shitter and Zito ends up meeting him there, we are fucked….

    • pawliekokonuts said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:48 am

      as in *screwed and that’s an understatement* Then again, who knows what anonymous other miracles are percolating: 35 homers from Belt??? Pence, .334 BA?????

    • willedav said, on February 27, 2013 at 7:36 am

      that was my doom take on what to worry about thread; other half being Sf would need to score more runs than last year (without all star melk for first half) to win. Your ? about how many crummy starts he (or anyone else for that matter) is allowed makes me think of another one—who would take the hill in their place as an SP?

      • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:57 am

        The Giants scored 4 RPG with the Fraudster, over 5 without him.

  14. eddacker said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:23 am

    Six
    If after six ST starts the freak, the rubber band man, timmeh two shoes is not hitting his spots, getting his Ks, and going more than four innings?
    Then I worry.

  15. eddacker said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:34 am

    I been hearing a lot of Pill and none of Belt. I know they will need Brett during the classic, but where is Brandon? The Belt video from a week ago on CSBA doesn’t play for me. 😦

    • chipower9 said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:45 am

      Belt had a hit that drove in 2 run yesterday. It is early…and in my opinion…way to early to begin hand-wringing over a possible platoon at 1st (Belt, Pill, Posey), etc. Even if Pill tears it up, Belt is going to be the Opening Day starter at 1st. Book it.

      • Flavor said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:58 am

        that’s not even a bet offered to book. He’s got the job unless he gets hurt. Pill is fighting for a bench position and he knows it.

      • eddacker said, on February 27, 2013 at 5:05 pm

        Yeah, if pill is not back at Fresno he is on the bench at best. It was just that I had not heard belt’s name mentioned but had heard pill’s often lately. Is there a place to get ST “summaries”?

  16. pawliekokonuts said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:45 am

    You beat me to it. I was about to email you to ask permission to throw up a thread. The topic would have been precisely what you cited: Timmy Lincecum’s troubling word use and what it might mean. If I am to be bothered by Pablo Sandoval’s weight, I need to be at least as bothered by Tim Lincecum’s *weighty* words. It’s highly troubling to see a player of Timmy’s caliber and success talk like that about “will.” Maybe he needs a spokeperson, but my take on his Vocabulary 101 coursework yields an unsettling translation: “I gave up, I lost interest, I stopped trying.” Okay, okay, let’s say that is harsh, overstated. Still. It sends the wrong signals to this reader. Maybe it’s part and parcel of a lack of confidence when things went poorly. No surprise there. But c’mon. Buck up. To answer your topic: I’d start getting concerned March 31 if we are in for another round of this. Bochy is great at sending not-so-subtle signals. Early last year he publicly chastised Timmy for not covering a base in a game that was spiralling downhill. None of this is shocking to us. We all saw it and talked of it. Too many times, Timmy looked downtrodden, his whole demeanor showed it. That made the sudden move to the bullpen all the more brilliant, though risky. Sheesh.

  17. twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:13 am

    Things I’m not worried or care much about :

    Doogie’s first ST inning
    His words
    Pablo’s weight
    How Pill hits this Spring
    How anybody hits this Spring
    How the Giants are going to score 6 runs a game over the Zen Mushster’s last 14 games this year
    How Whitey is doing

    • chipower9 said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:47 am

      I agree with Michael. I especially am not going to read too much into Tim’s words. It is a contract year. He knows WTF he needs to do. Sit back and relax and enjoy some ST baseball is what I say…

  18. willedav said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Twin, yes the giants did score more runs and went on a great tear last two months without melk. But that also included other world numbers from scutaro and great finishes by belt and crawford that imo aren’t sustainable over long haul. My *doom* take is that if SP such as zito and lincecum (and/or vogs) are 4.00 and above, giants are going to have to score more runs to win (esp at home) and in melk’s place you’ve got blanco and torres.
    You have to figure a drop off for scut from .360, and I don’t see an all star .360 performance like we got from melk during first half in the likes of pence blanco torres or anyone else that might replace him in the LU. Like him or not melk was a factor in SF success vs. LHP. Again, this is just me dooming up a *worst case scenario*–pitching is worse, bats go back into torture mode.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:57 am

      Well, you also don’t expect improvement from Pence, or improvement over the first half performances of the Brandon’s, you forget Panda’s hamate bone injury.. it’s all doom and gloom and don’t forget to doom over the pen getting over worked again- WHICH HAS NEVER HAPPENED…

      • chipower9 said, on February 27, 2013 at 11:53 am

        Willie – not saying your points are not valid concerns. We all know this team is predominantly built on pitching (from the starters through the bullpen). It is one of the better pitching staffs in the majors. If a couple of starters falter, sure there will be consequences. Same with the bats. But, until it happens, I am not going to doom on it. This team has the pieces to go deep again…yes, to win the whole damned thing. So, I am ready to sit back and see what happens…IMNSHO it is just too damned early to be dooming. Spring is about new beginnings, and hope for the best. Come June or July and we’re 10 games out and a couple of starters/hitters are in the tank, that is a different story. For now, I am going to enjoy the ride, and hope for the best.

  19. Bozo said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Off topic – I admit I don’t follow the Warrior’s or the NBA at all anymore. So, I imagine I’m the last one here to know that Pater Guber, an owner for the Warrior’s is also one of the owners for the Dodgers. In my head, that is fucked up, I mean FUCKED UP!

    • unca_chuck said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:48 am

      They don’t call him goober for nothin’.

    • chipower9 said, on February 27, 2013 at 11:55 am

      I agree…it is what it is, but it is FUCKED-UP! Oh, and by the way…FUCK THE STOOPID FUCKING FUCK Dodgers! Really, FUCK THEM!

  20. unca_chuck said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:48 am

    In other news:

    The Merc’s Tim Kawakami reports the Niners will receive a second-round pick this year and “a similar pick” from KC in 2014 in a trade for Alex Smith.

    The star-crossed Smith era has come to an end. Given the weirdness that swirled around him, and the strange goings-on that seemd to keep the Niners tied to Alex, the perfect storm of a shitty draft class, a non-existent FA market, and the fact Smith blossomed at the right time gave the Niners the best possibler situation in trading him. He, like Joe Montana, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, and Steve DeBerg before him, will go from the Niners to the KC Chiefs.

    .

  21. unca_chuck said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:53 am

    As far as Timmy goes, I think we all saw what he talked about. He looked lost and beat most of the time on the mound last year. His body language was defeatist at best. I’m sure it pretty much snow-balled and he couldn’t right himself. In the middle of the bullshit, it gets hard to get outside the problem and figure it out.

    Encouraging WAS the relief work he did in the playoffs. I’m sure it gives him something to build on. Maybe it did come too easy too early for him. He’s having to reinvent himself a little. Nothing drastic, but he now knows it’s going to be more about mental toughness than physical ability.

  22. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:58 am

    So what is considered acceptable for Lincecum this season? 10 wins a mid 3 ERA and 170+ SO? Seems like a low bar for a former 2x Cy winner but I would take it.

  23. twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Doogie has had horrible horrible eating and training habits. He did well in relief because he could go out. If he’s in better shape this year, he’ll be fine. And he needs a leash after dark.

    • zumiee said, on February 27, 2013 at 12:41 pm

      Your “Doogie” nickname for him is officially tiresome.

      • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 5:56 pm

        Nah, it’s perfect, Zoomie. Here Doogie smirks incognito…

      • snarkk said, on February 27, 2013 at 10:16 pm

        Plenty of smirky names for Timmeh, but when it comes to fat Panda who almost has an MI running from first to home, hey, don’t touch. Interesting…

  24. unca_chuck said, on February 27, 2013 at 10:46 am

    I’d say 14 wins is certainly in his wheelhouse. K’s shouldn’t be as important to Timmy’s success as they once were. Mid 3’s would be good as well. I think he can go around 3 and a quarter.

    But I’m optimistic . . .

  25. Salty said, on February 27, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Well, winning 10 last yr with a bloated ERA, logic says an era in the 3’s nets Tim at least 3-4 more wins. I’d take him on my fantasy team. Belt Pence and Panda, too. Not as bullish on the guys with the shiny new contracts (Pagan Scutaro Affeldt).

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 27, 2013 at 11:42 am

      Agree with you on Belt, Sandival and Pence. I think Pagan will be fine but have doubts about Scutaro. The LF platoon isn’t exactly inspiring confidence but I am not too worried there. There are possible internal solutions and the mide season Sabean upgrade.

  26. unca_chuck said, on February 27, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Tim did go 16-10 with a mid 3 era back on ’10 . . .

    He dropped it about 0.70 in 2011 and ended up 13-14.

    Decent run support, yadda yadda yadda . . .

  27. twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    In case you missed it, I’m now a drooler. Can I post about the babes again?

    http://zekesplace.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/quick-update/

  28. chipower9 said, on February 27, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    I really do not have doubts about Scutaro. Now, not sure what the rest of you are expecting, but no way I expect what he did at the end of the year last year, and I don’t believe he was signed with those expectations. Scutaro is the prototypical pro. He was signed for stability over the next year or two until the Giants figure out 2nd base for the future. The guy has really never had a “shitty” year. If he stays healthy and puts up numbers near his lifetime averages (.276 .340 .391 .731) with 10 bombs and 60ish RBIs…it will all be good. And almost every year, he has been right there. He was also brought back to provide leadership and as an example to the younger players how you go about playing this game.

  29. zumiee said, on February 27, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    “has had horrible horrible eating and training habits….If he’s in better shape this year, he’ll be fine. And he needs a leash after dark.”

    That’s actually pretty funny. TF says all the things about Lincecum he won’t say about Sandoval.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 1:18 pm

      Pablo has two MVP series under his “belt”. He had a better year. dude. What’s funny is how you let it go how badly Timmy was trashed by others.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 1:26 pm

      BTW, FIP is a reliable and more accurate indicator of how a pitcher performed than ERA . So while Timmy had a poor year, he was better than the Zen Mushster who had the third worst FIP among qualified starters. (Doogie was 10th worst)…

      • zumiee said, on February 27, 2013 at 1:27 pm

        So we have to hear “Doogie” all season? Great.

      • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 1:40 pm

        You have me confiused with someone else. It’s “Doogie” for now. I think I’ll go with Nate for awhile. He’s does look kinda geeky.

      • snarkk said, on February 27, 2013 at 10:18 pm

        Plenty of rips for a guy with 2 Cys, but a guy who ate himself out of 2010 postseason appearances, hey, that’s off fuckin limits. Spare me…

  30. chipower9 said, on February 27, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Wheeler with a minor strain following BP…

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130227&content_id=42040696&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

    He is slated to be the Opening Day starter for the Mutt’s AAA team.

    Also, not sure how many saw this…nice comparitive breakdown between the Giants and Bums.

    http://www.sfgate.com/giants/jenkins/article/Comparing-the-Giants-and-Dodgers-4311195.php

    Lastly, there was an article on sfgate earlier about the history of the Giants. I got distracted by work (hate it when that happens), and did not get a chance to read it. And damned if I can find it now…it seems to have evaporated. Anyone else see it?

  31. twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    I think I have “Nate” at 13-9 3.50 ( FIP is NOT a predictive stat, it reflects what the pitcher can control, so those figures aren’t out yet)
    Zits 11-11 4.30

    • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 2:01 pm

      BTW, I got Flavor an autographed BARRY ZITO AUTOGRAPH JUST MINORS SACRAMENTO RIVER CATS card to ease the pain

      bz

  32. Bozo said, on February 27, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    I’m surprised that this ST game seems so lightly attended. Pill, just seems like a ST monster, time for a trade? Pagan just killed that one.

    • zumiee said, on February 27, 2013 at 3:20 pm

      The ballpark graphic in the MLB.com Gameday looks like something somebody built in a cornfield, hoping the ghost of Joe Jackson would show up. Must be their “generic” Spring Training ballpark graphic.

    • Macdog said, on February 27, 2013 at 3:30 pm

      MLB network is showing it on tape delay. Just caught the 6th — yeah, Pagan crushed it. Pill, too, with his triple.

      • zumiee said, on February 27, 2013 at 3:44 pm

        I’m not at home at the moment, but have it on the DVR.
        —-
        Anyone else see Schierholtz’s HR for the Cubs the other day? Could be a lot of playing time for him in Cub-land this season.

  33. eddacker said, on February 27, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Thanks Guys, lots of info we miss here. Or don’t have the timme to chase down.
    Go Gigantes!
    Early spring training and many are ready to proclaim the end of time for this team/player/season. Think I’ll sit back and watch

    • twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:54 pm

      Really, we’re going to be terrible. Zito, Romo, Casilla , Mijares all sucked today. We’re fucked…well, we have Pill and Bond..

  34. twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Craig, will you send me an Email at twinfan1@hotmail.com ?
    The other one is down.

  35. twinfan1 said, on February 27, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Actually, Lincecum used the leash line himself when he let it slip that he over indulged when he missed that ASG. It turns out the lad wasn’t being slandered at all-as many insisted ..
    As I posted earlier-if he eats right and keeps in the shape he’ll be fine, IMO…Pablo is coming off a good September, great October, and great winter.
    Buen apetito !

    ps

  36. salty said, on February 27, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Curry is unreal tonight…

  37. salty said, on February 27, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Wow!

  38. Macdog said, on February 27, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    What a show tonight by Stephen Curry. As my daughter said, “He is amazing.” And this guy wasn’t an All-Star?

  39. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    I mostly use my ipad so I’m not sure if it is just me but this site has been acting weird all week. Now the links to last comments is gone.

  40. willedav said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    I know I’ve thrown out some doomer posts, but really, SF could just as easily romp the division right out of the gate and be 40-18 in June, coast their way to 95, and make Magic’s dodgers as irrelevant as his Lakers.
    starters dominate, pen is lights out and shortens the game, pence pablo posey whack HRs on pace for 25-30 each and defense remains solid. As Dylan put it, “I think it can be very easily done.”

  41. TedSpe said, on February 27, 2013 at 8:38 pm
      I like Giants. Ted, only pawn in Giants mythology
  42. tedspe said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    As a child, according to my mother, I ate horse meat.
    Often

    • snarkk said, on February 27, 2013 at 10:19 pm

      Then, you need to go to Europe right now. Plenty available, by accident…

      • tedspe said, on February 27, 2013 at 10:41 pm

        We did it on purpose. And it was…delicious

      • tedspe said, on February 27, 2013 at 10:42 pm

        Black Beauty, Flicka, Trigger…whenever I hear those names? My only thought?
        Yum

  43. blade3colorado said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Hey all . . . I survived the jungle barely. One of the few times I was on this RTW trip where I wished I was somewhere else – like a Giants spring training game. New blog post tells why . . .

    http://aroundtheworldwithblade.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/chaing-mai-thailand-northern-mountain-trek-its-not-what-you-think-or-what-the-brochure-describes/

  44. tedspe said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    cronk

  45. tedspe said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    I was born a poor black child…

  46. tedspe said, on February 27, 2013 at 9:38 pm

  47. paulinasia said, on February 28, 2013 at 8:04 am

    Steve, sounds like you were miserable. Wishing you were somewhere else, when you’re traveling, is not a good thing. Go with it, dude, especially while you’re in Asia. But I won’t say “It’s the journey, not the destination”, even though that’s often true and probably how you should be looking at it as you go. I hate that saying. Sometimes it really IS the destination….. I’m thinking you’re thinking somewhere along Sukhumvit a few days from now… 🙂 Hope you enjoy the hot springs around Pai, interesting country up there….

  48. twinfan1 said, on February 28, 2013 at 8:10 am

    New post.


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