A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Timmy vs Dirrrrrty and Comparing Their Filthy Sh!t

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on March 23, 2013

I’m not going to be able to speak from an educated place on this till I look at both their velocities once the regular season starts, but that’s not going to stop me from writing this thread…..

Timmy looked fine in his first spring start (93-94mph) from a couple of weeks ago. And I’ve seen none of Dirrrrrrty’s numbers this spring other than what they show at mlb.com.

But let’s throw this out there right now: 93-94 mph  just isn’t a speed that dominates anymore. In 1988 it did. But the number of guys throwing 94+ and WAY+ is off the charts in 2013. It’s actually fantastic support for evidence of steroid use today. Timmy threw his fastball, on average, 94.2 mph when he first came into the league in 2007. It’s dropped every year since then, ultimately settling at 90.4 in 2012. And I know he threw it harder than his average in ’07 at certain points in the game or the season, as well as ’12, but losing 4mph’s has left the rest of his pitching repertoire sadly lacking. And this is a theory from the end of last season, not from anything he’s done in spring training this year, a known time that he uses for tune ups and whatnot (I almost said *stuff* and now I’m regretting it since *whatnot* is even dumber than *stuff*).
Timmy and Dirrrrrrty have some things in common. Dirrrrty still has his sick sh!t but he’s said many times that he’ll never give in to a hitter. Top Secret Message to The Dirrrrrtiest: hitters read the sh!t you say. And they see the sh!t you throw, it passes right by them. And they’ve realized that they can’t hit your filthiest sh!t but they have no problem letting it pass harmlessly by as the ump calls it a ball. Very quickly, batter after batter, the hitter works the count in his favor. Dirrrrty is 2-0, 3-1 on every hitter. He’s either stupid or stubborn that he doesn’t understand this……..
Timmy is only similar to Dirrrrty from the standpoint of where his pitches ultimately land. I think Dirrrrty has better control than Timmy but he just refuses to ever give in and will NEVER throw the ball into the zone. It’s stupid, because his sh!t is so wicked, but he’s got his plan and he’ll never change it. He will never adapt. We talked about that earlier today with Sabean. And that’s why he’s fucked now.
I don’t think Timmy could locate his pitches if he was trying. And I think he was trying A LOT last year to locate them. His mechanics are so complicated and he got by with his dominant fastball for so long, that he just never had to do it at the big league level. And now he’s struggling because of it. Dirrrrty has better natural sh!t than Timmy but Timmy would know how to use Dirrrrty’s sh!t a lot better than Dirrrrrrrty if he had it. But he doesn’t have it.


This sh!t really is that simple…….

21 Responses

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  1. JBat said, on March 23, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    Sanchez has better control than Lincecum? Really? Sanchez career BB/9 = 5, Lincecum = 3.5. Neither is stellar, but Dirty’s truly sucks. K/9 Tim = 9.8,m Sanchez = 9.1. Pretty close there, but I’m not sure where you were going with this post. Sanchez is a career meatball, Lincecum is, well, you know. You can have all the filthy shit in the world, but when a guy is weak between the ears like Sanchez he ends up 39-55 after 7 years with more goodness to come I’m sure. Lincecum’s performance in the playoffs alone indicates that he’s far from toast. Dirty has better natural stuff? NO FUCKING WAY. //rant

    • Flavor said, on March 23, 2013 at 7:56 pm

      I’m not comparing their careers, that’s what idiots do, I’m comparing where I think they are today. And I prefaced the thread by saying I didn’t have any info on their velocities this spring. And I never said Sanchez had better control than Timmy. I said he was a more stubborn pitcher with his location. Dirrrrty is intentionally throwing his filthy pitches out of the zone. Lincecum is doing it because he has poor location……..
      I don’t have a number to rate “natural stuff” but with Timmy flailing away with his lost gas and Dirrrrrty flailing away with his lost approach to pitching, I think it’s pretty clear where I was going with this post.

      • JBat said, on March 24, 2013 at 10:24 am

        You said Dirty has better control, but intentionally throw out of the zone, so as not to “give in.” I think he just has shit control, because only a moron would continue to walk guys at a rate of 5 per 9 IP. Lincecum has poor control; I still can’t get my mind around that one. He doesn’t intentionally throw his change with the idea that it will end up out of the zone? After the hitter has flailed at it? I’m just not buying your argument. I’ll stand by what I said about Lincecum’s performance in the post season. He was dominant, AFTER a regular season of struggles. That is what he’s still capable of and I think we’ll see a strong bounce-back season this year.

        And to me comparing two pitchers in different stratospheres like this while throwing down a bottle of booze is what idiots do.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:38 pm

      Having control problems is not a sign of being “weak between the ears”. Dirrty says some things that don’t go over well, but he seems to be exceptionally shy and his English is poor. Maybe he *is* finished, we’ll see, but his fastball velocity in his last outing was back up to where it was before his fall from grace.

      • JBat said, on March 24, 2013 at 10:17 am

        No, but being consistently rattled when things don’t go your way is. Sanchez is nothing more than Atlee Hammaker part 2.

  2. twinfan1 said, on March 23, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    Well, Jonathan’s velocity also took a hit last year- he averaged 89+ … taking into account that his injury was same one he suffered here (biceps), I’m still going with injury being at least one cuprit in his fall off. I don’t think his sudden and total loss of effectiveness can be explained by his words.

    • Flavor said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:04 pm

      it doesn’t have to be explained by the words he says. His injury is certainly a part of this complicated fall from grace. It just should be noted that he hasn’t adapted to the hitters who continue to watch his filthy sh!t pass harmlessly by.

      • twinfan1 said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:18 pm

        Well, that’s one take.. but we all know that injury can affect mechanics.
        In any case, I don’t buy this meatball stuff..
        I’ll be interested how it goes tomorrow. Based on his last two outings, I’d be surprised if the Bucs don’t guarantee him a spot. If they don’t, he’ll be snapped up quickly, IMO.

      • Flavor said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:32 pm

        “Snapped up quickly” is some fierce conjecture. If they release him, that’ll be 3 different teams bailing on him in a year’s time– guys like that are “labeled” not “snapped up quickly.”
        But I’m happy to look at a list of players who suddenly broke out with their 4th team after 3 others let ’em go in the previous year’s time …

      • DJLoo said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:42 pm

        Lou Piniella?

      • twinfan1 said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm

        It’s probably academic after his last two outings. I’d be shocked, given the Buc’s situation that he’d be released.

  3. DJLoo said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    Lefties get 1,000 chances. Some seem to pitch forever. Darren Oliver pitched against the Giants in the first inter-league game ever. I think even he’s still around…

  4. DJLoo said, on March 23, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Dodgers would’ve given up on Koufax if he was a righty.

  5. xoot said, on March 23, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    As a Giant, Sanchez used to stick with the FB whenever he got into trouble. I remember screaming at the tv one night when he got to 20 FBs in a row. I don’t believe he was outside the zone by design.

    Lincecum got into a similar, although not quite so extreme, pattern last year when he was in trouble. When he’s strong and loose, however, LIncecum uses his off-speed stuff well, especialy when he’s in trouble. He did so today, in theearly innings I was able to watch. HIs FB was sailing up, but his change ups and curves were down and nasty and getting swing through SOs. The hanger to Cespedes was just a mistake.

    For all the analysis we focus on Lincecum’s windup and mechanics, truth is Sanchez’s 3/4 side-sling delivery deserves just as much scrutiny. When he’s off just a touch, he’ really off. As to his head, I always got the impression that he’s a smart enough but very emotional guy who has trouble turning anger to his advantage. Lincecum’s probably no smarter, and just as emotional, but he can channel that anger. I’d go with Lincecum. Years from now he’ll still be getting those swing-thrus when he needs them. But I’ll bet he’ll never pitch a no hitter.

  6. snarkk said, on March 23, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Cal loses to Syracuse by half a dozen essentially. Cal is short one very good player, either a big guy or a point guard, and they’d be in the round of 16. I said before that Crabbe and Cobbs had to hit their shots to win. They didn’t. In a big way. They were lost, invisible. Between ’em, 13 points. Crabbe tends to disappear sometimes, and he did tonite. 8 points, and he looked like he was in the ozone with some of his play. That just won’t get it done. Oregon blasted St. Looey, so they and Ariz (smoked Hahvad) are the only Pac 12 left. How did Cal beat the Ducks twice? Indiana should win tomorrow and be next for the ‘cuse. The Hoosiers will wipe the floor with ’em…

  7. twinfan1 said, on March 23, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Craig knows that there’s not exactly a stat for his search request. It’s irrelevant, anyway. What EVERYBODY does know is that lefties with a history of “missing bats” are given lots of chances.
    JSanchez has had problems letting getting squeezed affect him, so of course, he get squeezed even more. I just totally object to the “basket case” kind of talk.He is, as Xoot says, an emotional guy and he’s got control problems. People who want to go the basket case route might want to reaquaint themselves what the term really means ( aside from the quite offensive quadruple amputee meaning) ..the term and it’s synonyms as applied to Jonathan are not only insulting, they are not correct.

  8. Alleykat said, on March 23, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Well Jonathan Sanchez is on the right team.Since the Pirates haven’t had a “WINNING” season in oh ,let me use a sun dial,compass,Raiders of the Ark Expedition …19 Loooooong Straight Years!!! If he nearly sniffed a .500 Season,the Pirates would have a parade along the Alegemy River for him.
    He has nothing to lose and every thing to gain pitching for the worse team annually in baseball.

  9. Macdog said, on March 23, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    The Royals had eight straight losing seasons (now nine) and only one winning season since ’95 going into 2012, so that didn’t exactly work out for Sanchez last year.

  10. zumiee said, on March 23, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    ” the Alegemy River”

    I shudder to think what you’d do with “Monongahela.” (grin)

  11. Bozo said, on March 24, 2013 at 6:01 am

    Timmy is a freak. With all the talk about his FB the dude still averages a K per inning.
    As already noted here, Sanchez is a lefty he’ll get a gig. Look at Shawn Estes, 13 years, with an average ERA and WHIP of 4.74 and 1.557. Thirteen years of that shit and he still got calls. Hell, Sanchez could always end up as the new John Yandle and pitch until he’s 60. http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/andrew-baggarly/extra-baggs-giants-welcome-58-year-old-pitcher-camp-etc

  12. twinfan1 said, on March 24, 2013 at 8:15 am

    There was concern by Righetti at the end of 2010 that Jonathan had lost a couple MPH on his fastball. His detractors play up the head case nonsense to explain his fall off but his position coach was concerned that he’d pitched 213 innings, 50 more than his previous high. And indeed, his velocity on his fastball dipped below 90 in 2011(89.7) and 2012 (89.1). Meanwhile, his change-up velocity rose. Last year, it averaged 83.2. The drop in fastball velocity made that pitch easier to hit and the higher speed on the change made it easier to detect- resulting in fewer swing throughs on both pitches. The biceps injury has been blamed for the problem, as has mechanics, or age. What’s encouraging for Dirrrty is that he was throwing his fastball at 90/91 in his last outing. Look, he’s never going to be a control guy but he had become an effectively-wild pitcher by 2010, instead of the wildly ineffective one of his earlier years and after May of 2011. We’ll know today whether he makes the Buc squad- he could grab the 5th rotation spot or a relief position. Otherwise, he’s said he’ll opt out and look to catch on with another team. I don’t think he’ll need to worry about it.

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