A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

How to turn 1 million into 786 million in Less than 90 Years

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on March 27, 2013

I went to the Forbes website to see just how much Bud’s Machine is churning out these days. Not surprisingly, everyone is making gobs of money. The Yankees are worth 2.3 billion, the Dodgers check in at 1.6 bills, and the Giants are worth 786 million, up 22%. Even the lowly A’s have been raking in the cash seeing their value increase a whopping 46% from last year to 468 million. Their revenue last year was 173 million. Their 2012 team payroll was 52.8 million so even with Wolfe reluctantly paying the hot dog guys and the parking lot attendees, he still made out pretty good last year….

Got me to thinking about how much Giants teams have sold for over the years. The team has changed hands at least a dozen times over it’s history. There were 4 or 5 owners before Charles Stoneham but I didn’t feel like looking up all of them so I started with C-Stone. He purchased the Giants for $1,000,000 from Harry Hempstead who had bought the franchise in 1912 from his father in law.

Charles died in 1936 and his son Horace was the lucky heir. He held ownership of the team for 40 years until he sold it to Bob Lurie in 1976 for $8,000,000. Stoneham was set to sell the team to a brewery in Toronto but Lurie stepped in to save the team and keep them in SF.

Lurie would pull a *Horace* 16 years later when he tried to sell the team to an investment group in Florida 115 million. Thankfully, major league baseball stepped in and nixed the deal forcing Lurie to sell the team to local investors. Can you imagine Bud forcing something like that? Peter Magowan stepped up and bought the team for a cool hundred mil.

At this point we’re getting into “managing partners” and in 2008 Peter-Mag’s stepped down and handed the reigns to Bill Neukom who took over as the principal shareholder and lead investor of the team. As all of you know, The ‘Nuke stepped down in 2011 giving way to the new CEO Larry Baer. Charles B Johnson bought additional shares of the Giants at the time to own 25% of the team and became the largest individual shareholder.

And now Forbes says they’re worth 786 MILLION dollars with the loan on the stadium set to get paid off in 2017.

I think they’re probably worth a lot more than that……

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  1. zumiee said, on March 27, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    It’s becoming more and more quaint to speak of a team “owner.” A lot of times they are investment groups, and it’s not real clear sometimes who’s calling what about things. The Giants group dumped Bow-tie, and still came out smelling like roses winning the championship last year. Larry Baer seems like the ideal guy for the Giants organization’s role that they have for him. He’s the middle man between the “money people” and the “baseball people.” He can speak both languages and do the translation and diplomacy. On a personal level, he seems very “car salesman-y” to me. And the camera shots in the crowd usually show him talking the ear off of whoever’s sitting near him. But the bottom line is…..he seems to be someone who REALLY wants to win, and not just make money for the organization. He “gets it” in that regard, concerning the fans, I think.

  2. zumiee said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    The problem for Giants fans during all those Stoneham years, if I’m correct on this, is that the baseball team was the source of the Stonehams’ income. Not a good scenario for fans when the team is the owner’s only business. It tends to lead to a pretty limited budget for the team, and often bad decisions, like trades that are made for money reasons and not baseball reasons.

  3. zumiee said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    “SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. — Giants manager Bruce Bochy sounded upbeat about Pablo Sandoval’s troublesome right elbow, indicating Tuesday that the switch-hitting third baseman’s chances of playing in Monday’s season opener at Los Angeles had improved.

    Bochy said that Sandoval might try “light work” Wednesday — either hitting off a tee or playing light catch, or possibly both activities.

    “There’s progress,” Bochy said of Sandoval, who hasn’t played since March 16 while dealing with an irritated nerve in his elbow. “… I will say we’re a lot more optimistic than we were two days ago about him going on Opening Day.”

    Backup catcher Hector Sanchez, who has been bothered by right shoulder soreness through much of Spring Training, also moved closer to full health by catching Matt Cain’s simulated game. Sanchez unleashed several throws to second base from behind the plate. Some went awry, but a few were accurate.

    “He showed a lot of arm strength,” Bochy said in approval.”

    • Flavor said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:24 pm

      Yup, looking ok for now. We’ll see.
      BTW, not sure if you (any of you) caught Kruk’s morning show on KNBR but he talked exclusively about Sandoval’s injury as being a bone chip.

      • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:36 pm

        I thought we didn’t trust Dr. Kruk.

  4. twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Pablo did take BP and throw today. Now they’ll see how he comes out of it. *So far* the doomsday scenarios aren’t coming to pass,

    • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:37 pm

      Maybe a tie-breaking bet would be in order on how much medical work Pablo’s elbow will require this season. On a scale of 1 to 100 — 1 being ice, 100 being amputation — what level of treatment will he need? I guess 15, and he’ll never go on the DL because of it. But I’m feeling optimistic.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:58 pm

      I hate to make guesses on that type of thing. *But* as I noted before when the “loose body” remarks were pointed out, surgery is not always the preferred treatment. It depends on the pain and the size of the chip(s ). A lot of people seem to forget that *any* surgery involves risk and if doctors think other options can treat the injury, that’s the prudent course, IMO.
      With all that said, I’ll go with amputation of the wrong arm..

      • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 5:22 pm

        ah ha! scale of 1 to 200

  5. salty said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    Noooonan had 3 hits today…single double and a triple…would be sweet to see him grab that other utility job and possibly become a starter down the road.

    • zumiee said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:35 pm

      It’ll probably be years before he would have a chance to start. Hopefully, the starting infield is already set for the next 3 or so years.

      • zumiee said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:37 pm

        Unless you meant he’ll become “trade bait” at some point, which could happen. He would be a prime trade piece in that kind of scenario.

      • salty said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:49 pm

        Well, by down the road I meant 2-3 yrs. See how he develops, how Scutaro holds up and how Panik comes along.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:38 pm

      I wouldn’t count on Scooter starting for 3 years.

  6. salty said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    And Belt with another hr…yawn.

    • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:38 pm

      Peguero, too, right?

    • zumiee said, on March 27, 2013 at 4:40 pm

      If Belt has a great season at the plate, the Giants could comfortably win the division by 10+ games.

  7. Flavor said, on March 27, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Just got off the ph with the NBC guy–talked for about 30 minutes. He’s a Red Sox fan living in NY, we’re the same age, so we had a lot of common parallels at least as it relates to our lives today and our baseball history growing up. He’s running the piece Mon, he thinks, and if he does I’ll forward you guys the link.
    Near the end of the conversation, I asked him how he started working at NBC and he said he worked for Chase and got laid off in 2005. He had some time on his hands and hadn’t started his family yet so he started blogging about baseball. His buddy was doing the same thing at gawker and scored him a job there and then he ended up at NBC. Not a bad way to manufacture a career out of being unemployed…..
    I’ll wait to see if this story gets published before I post his name.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on March 27, 2013 at 6:47 pm

      What a world. Did he say how he tracked you down? It’s a small, small world, smaller than ever. I like this thread of events. Keep us posted. #networking

  8. Alleykat said, on March 27, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Actually the A ‘s made more revenue then the Giants last year.Wolfe is no way selling the team now while he is banking a profit.

    • Flavor said, on March 27, 2013 at 5:25 pm

      If I was an A’s fan and I read what the A’s revenue was last year I would be fucking pissed as shit. They battled their team into the playoffs but fell short. Meanwhile, their owner was raking in the dough and spending no money at the same time………

      • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 5:45 pm

        Under the new CBA, the top 15 teams (based on market, I guess) gradually lose the setoff they get against their revenue sharing obligations. By 2016, the top 15 will have no deductions to offset what they owe the bottom 15. The A’s and Giants are tied at 7th in the top 15, but next to the A’s name is the phrase “exempt until new stadium.”

        In other words, the moment the A’s start a season in a new park, they switch from being revenue-sharing receivers to being revenue-sharing payors. I’m beginning to think wolff/fisher don’t really want a new stadium at all.

      • Flavor said, on March 27, 2013 at 6:11 pm

        that’s actually a fantastic perspective that I hadn’t thought of before. He doesn’t want a new stadium, it would cut into the free money he gets from the other owners.

      • Chico said, on March 27, 2013 at 6:50 pm

        Haha! I was thinking the same thing. . Some of the more informed A’s fans are onto him.. I’m friends with one of the guys who does ‘A’s fan radio’ – he hates Wolff’s guts..

      • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:10 pm

        The 2012-16 CBA terms on revenue sharing are complex. see bizofbaseball.com (offering the CBA & a memo summarizing it; the list of the top and bottom 15 teams is at Attachment 26 to the CBA) Bottom line, however, is clear: mlb has made a bunch of concessions to the A’s to keep wolff/fisher flush while the behind-the-scenes territorial rights negotiations sputter along.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:13 pm

      more revenue? or more profit? I’m not a financial wizard, or even a Grishamesque bestselling author, but I know those two things are different.

      • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:27 pm

        I think the A’s netted more revenue than did the Giants, if you add in the A’s rev-sharing amt from mlb. But that’s not the whole story, certainly.

  9. PawlieKokonuts said, on March 27, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    No discussion of San Francisco Giants ownership is complete without the name of Bud Herseth, the Arizona cattleman/meat packer — not the Chicago symphony trumpeter. Ol’ Bud Herseth may’ve been a bit rough around the edges, but he kept the Giants from moving to Toronto. Bob Lurie needed him. We did too. Thanks, Bud.

  10. Bozo said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Even though Peter Magowan stepped down as the CEO (I still think this was a Bonds related MLB penalty) he still owned a large part of the Giants, I thought when Bill Neukom sold his share, Peter became the largest share holder (buying most of Neukom’s shares and also the Burns share being distributed to the kids). Not so?

    • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:26 pm

      Neukom sold to Johnson, I think.

      • Flavor said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:54 pm

        Nuke just stepped down, and I know he sold shares but I don’t think it was all to CJ. Who sold what to who went down at the board meeting and we’ll probably never know all of those details

      • xoot said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:16 pm

        Well, Neuk got nuked. They forced him to sell his controlling shares. Still, last year Neuk was the guy in charge of presenting the Giants’ position at the mlb owners meeting where they heard arguments over the A’s move to San Jose. These mogul machinations are hard to track, especially without any inside info.

  11. PawlieKokonuts said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    Magnus, give us a reminder: when are those individual stat predictions due? Post here, or in an email to you?

    • Flavor said, on March 27, 2013 at 7:56 pm

      March 31st…
      And I’m no accountant, but taking the revenue and balancing it against payroll, if we’re talking about an MLB team, is probably a decent ballpark.
      The A’s are hardly alone in this, the Astros and the Royals were > 100 mil in rev too (with a significantly lower team payroll)

  12. twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    Z mentioned Horace Stoneham. Horace had some rough years in the 1970’s and even before then made some poor trades but he also amassed some of the greatest players of any era- and he did bring the team here for us to enjoy ( he was originally planning to move them to Minnesota, BTW). Family owned teams who rely on the team as their source of income are a thing of the past, which I cnsider a mixed blessing. I think the advent of free agency pretty much spelled doom for those family businesses and while it benefitted the players it also meant that fans would no longer develop the identification with the guys who more and have become traveling mercenaries. I knew many of the Griffith clan who owned and ran the Twins and while Calvin was a noted skinflint he also genuinely loved his ballplayers and all of his employees. I don’t long for those days but I do wish that baseball had evolved in a such a way that the players had been rewarded financially as they are now but that some way was constucted that there was more stability in restricting movement. And that the family owned franchises could have survived. These investor owned and run teams leave me cold.
    I’m not really disagreing with what Z said, just ruminating on it a bit.

    • Chico said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:30 pm

      Twin, Alliemaedows on the Splash isn’t Soph. It’s WBB, aka BF.. Just thought I’d let you know.

      • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:36 pm

        Sure posts like like Soph. But no biggie either way. Those two actually have some entertaiment value, unlike most of the trolls..

      • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:52 pm

        I never saw WBB post on the 49er blog, this Allie one does.

    • Chico said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:50 pm

      Yeah, nothing is more entertaining than waking up to see all of your posts arbitrarily removed.. I can’t stand that asshole.

      • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:57 pm

        He had some good nicknames. As much as I love me my Travis, “Whiffikawa” was brilliant.

      • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 9:01 pm

        That Mossback and Molly are two I’d pay to see drawn and quartered.

      • Chico said, on March 27, 2013 at 9:01 pm

        Yep.. He’s not a stupid guy, he’s actually quite witty (Cal grad). He’s got a few other handles there, one called ‘poli’ something and of course, sabeansdwarfs.

      • Chico said, on March 27, 2013 at 9:09 pm

        Can’t stand them either. Molly got blocked but Mossback is back as Mossbach, or something like that.. I’m going to do my best to avoid the Splash this year.. Definitely a double standard going on w/giants/a’s blogs.. VK and his little nut swingers. . Looking forward to this season!

      • twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 9:16 pm

        Well, I ‘d like to see the Splash re-captured by SF fans but VK hates the Giants so that will never happen.

      • Chico said, on March 27, 2013 at 9:22 pm

        Yep.. VK sure is a piece of work.. He’s the head asshole over there.

    • Chico said, on March 27, 2013 at 9:19 pm

      Yeah, but if you look at the writing style – “We approach opening day with trepidation and tempered optimism.” — that’s classic WBB.. I know he hates football, so I’m stumped there, but I’m positive it’s WBB..

      http://www.sfgate.com/profile/?User=alliemeadows21&plckUserId=alliemeadows21 Notice no spelling errors.. He’s doing an ok job of playing Soph, but it’s pretty obvious it’s him.

      Compare that to this: http://www.sfgate.com/profile/?plckPersonaPage=PersonaHome&plckUserId=ninergal1&User=ninergal1

      Plus, the comments are being deleted again – classic WBB.. Now I just confused myself. Can’t stand the trolls.

  13. twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    Haven’t seen other moves involving ex-Giants, but I did see that Travis didn’t make the O’s and apparently will report to their AAA team.DeRosa has had a big Spring with the Jays and seems to have regained some pop. As far as I can tell, Velez and Burriss are still kicking and Nate and Frandsen and are locks.

  14. dirtnrocksnomo said, on March 27, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    Flavor,I thought you might enjoy this if you haven’t seen it already.


    • Flavor said, on March 28, 2013 at 6:02 am

      I hadn’t seen that. If it has to do with hockey, there’s a good chance I didn’t see it.
      But that was a fantastic video. Always loved me some Mr T.

  15. twinfan1 said, on March 27, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    That was a neat video- the woman interviewing him was great-and hot. Mr. T looked propped up but the old fart….well, I won’t spoil it.

  16. chipower9 said, on March 28, 2013 at 8:53 am


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