A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Identifying the Point of Failure With the Pitching Staff

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 13, 2013

It’s too general to just say “our pitching is the problem.” It’s certainly not ALL the pitching that’s the problem. So, what’s working?

The back end of the bullpen is fine. Lopez, Affeldt and Romo are all good.

Chad Gaudin has been magnificent. A starting pitcher who’s attacking the zone? It’s almost unheard of from Giants starters this year. But he’s been the model for them. They just refuse to model him.

Cain, despite one horrendous inning in St Louis, has been fine, too. He’s getting through 7 or into the 7th in most of his starts since the beginning of May. It might not be 125 million worth, but it’s still something we’ll take if it means he’s handing the ball to one of the back-end 3.

Now, what ISN’T working?

We all know what isn’t working. Bumgarner has been shaky lately but still better than Zito or Timmy. Zito hasn’t made it through 7 since May 5th. Surprisingly, Lincecum has made it through 7 in half his starts. It’s the *other half* that have been the problem.

And with Gaudin now in the rotation, it seems to me that the most critical indicator of success needs to be NOT handing the ball to whoever is currently posing as our “long man”. And that would be Ramirez, Rosario, Kontos (he’ll be back, you know it) or Mijares. I trust none of them to stop an inning from getting out of control. Each of them could be nicknamed “Gas Can Man”. I know J-Mij has a sparkling ERA but he gives up a lot of hits. Starting an inning is one thing, but bringing him in with men on base is not a pathway to success.

And it’s hardly rocket science to say “avoid the long man”. If you’re calling on him it’s because the starting pitcher is sucking. Mostly, we’ve had adequate long men over the last couple of seasons. Mota was great and Gaudin was super. Sadly, we now have suspect long men.

And I *suspect* that most long men in the league are suspect. They aren’t like a 6th man in basketball. They are pitchers who, typically, aren’t good enough to crack the starting 5. So this is a problem that most teams have. We just haven’t had to deal with it because our starting pitching has been so good for so many years.

Bottom line: this bedraggled group of long men isn’t going to suddenly get any better. They are, at best, mop up men. Asking them to keep a game close, consistently, is going to be a losing return.

The way to fix this:

Trade for another starting pitcher NOW. It can be an innings eater, it doesn’t have to be Cliff Lee. After this mythical man is acquired, send Timmy to the bullpen immediately and have him do that *super reliever* thing he did so well in the playoffs last year. He did it then, he can do it again.

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  1. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Another thing: Why has Buster only thrown out 6 of 42 runners this year? (I got that from mlb.com but baseball-ref says he’s thrown out 8 this year). 18 in a row have stolen on him. You can’t put all 18 of those on Lincecum’s slow delivery home. What is going on? He’s got a cannon for an arm and his throws are accurate. I haven’t looked up his stats for throwing runners out but it had to have been better last year……..

    • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 8:47 am

      ok, just looked it up.
      2010: 37%^
      2011: 36%
      2012: 30%
      2013: 18%
      Why is he getting worse every year? I would think a young catcher would get BETTER, not worse.

      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 8:58 am

        You know…I was not aware of this, but it is a damned good question. Fatigue? I mean really, what else could it be?

  2. chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Nice thread Flav. We have all been kicking the tires on this for some time, but I like the way you broke it down. Yeah, Bumgarner has had some rough starts of late (last 28 days – 5 starts, 1-3, 6.14 ERA, 1.295 WHIP). But I am really not worried about him and am confident he will come around.

    I have been saying for some time they need a starter (and this goes back to before Vogey got hurt). With each start by Tim, or each “road start” by Zito, this becomes more readily apparent.

    And I think they need not only a starter (and I agree with your synopsis on what is needed here…it doesn’t have to be Cliff Lee), but they need another “long-guy” (think Gaudin).

    As I posted late last night (in reponse to Blade’s Mel Gibson ledge video), I am nowhere near seeking out the nearest ledge, but something has to give SOON on the pitching. The Giants are three back, and lucky as hell not to be back by more.

    Brian Sabean…paging Brian Sabean. Please pick up the Red Bat Phone. This is NOT an exercise. I repeat…this is NOT an exercise.

    • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:00 am

      that was a great ledge scene Blade posted– I had forgotten how it ended. Classic.

  3. willedav said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Heard Miller on post game last night talking about how, again, PNC was a chamber of horrors for SF. Hope Pit can hang but I have a feeling same 5 teams as last year in NL are gonna wind up in playoffs.
    Therefore it behooves Giants to win the West…so our goal is stay ahead of the DBax. Healthy I still think we are better team–golds is their only clear edge among position players, our pen is much better, and I think Corbin kid comes back to earth. LA got to him for 4 runs by 5th inning last night in a game that could have been his second L of the season had SF won the earlier one from the weekend.
    It might not last, but as well as he’s done you can’t move Gaudin back to long guy, unless a proven SP is acquired. Tim to the pen would only be for an inning as RH set up guy, right? I don’t see it happening, Z has done well enough at home to stick too I’d imagine. Barring a phantom injury I don’t see Bochy bailing on these guys, whether that seems like the right move to us or not.

    • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:18 am

      fans questioned Bochy moving him to *super reliever* in the playoffs last year and he was invaluable. If Bochy sticks with the long men he’s got this will end badly. And I think for whatever reason, relieving is something Timmy is better at right now. Whether it’s a focus issue or an endurance issue, or he allows himself to throw harder since he knows it’s just a couple of innings, max–I don’t know. But starting pitching doesn’t seem to be his thing anymore…….

      • willedav said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:46 am

        Tim as a long guy, brought in middle of an inning with guys on base? I don’t think bochy does that to him. Machi I could see being most reliable in that situation. My guess is Tim would be a start the inning fresh set up guy in to throw 1 inning maybe 4-5 outs max, ala Casilla or Affeldt. Just imo, and I certainly think he could thrive there, and I think Bochy really wants him to thrive and do well here.
        As you mention tho, having to use the long guy in the first place is larger issue to me, so picking up one more proven vet (before Vogs returns) would have to predate Tim to the pen.

      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:38 am

        I could see Tim coming in to throw an inning, or two. The handwriting is on the wall…it has been there long enough…Flavor nailed it…I too think Tim is more suited to throw from the pen at this point.

  4. Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:21 am

    It seems to me that I’ve heard the Starters blame their blow up innings on losing their concentration, quite a bit this year. I’d like to know if they ever lose their concentration and have an awesome inning (Dude, I was playing out of my head today)? I’d also like to know what gets them distracted? I mean, your standing by yourself on a mound, facing a guy with a bat, and suddenly you start thinking of surfing or something? It’s not like they’re in the OF and haven’t had a ball hit to them in awhile, the pitcher is holding the damn ball and starts every play, yet for some reason they start thinking of a Man Vs Food episode? I just don’t get it.

  5. willedav said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Funny to see Twin’s report on Giants used to bes, with Velez and his .800 OPS in AAA, probably his ceiling. Speaking of, noticed Nate hit his 8th bomb yesterday for Cubs. Always thought warm weather NL central team his best spot, with a chance to play in other yards with friendly confines. Too bad Stros moved out of that division; maybe Nate hangs around there long enough for Cubs to contend for something other than 4th place.
    Noticed also increased urging from Henry and Bags for Hembree, something mentioned here days ago by a bunch of us. Can’t hurt, but as Flav mentioned in today thread the bigger issue to having to go long guys in the 5th inning in the first place. Baggs mostly lets Z off the hook, but Miller said he couldn’t get anyone at top of the LU out all day yesterday. After SF tied it he immediately loaded the bases with one out (K of Mac) by giving up 2 hits and a walk. He gave up 11 hits in 4 2/3, number of which Miller described as “line drive base hit”…that ain’t all bad luck BABIP.

    • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:59 am

      As somebody said on the radio, the top 3 in the Bucs lineup yesterday went 8 of 9 against Zits. The Giants first three? Hurt, in the dugout. Still, they could have won that game, especially after coming back to make it 4-4. Zito has been infamous while a Giant, IMO, for not holding the opposition to zilch the very next at bat after the Giants tie or go ahead, which is a momentum turner. I don’t have a stat on it, but that’s my remembrance of many of his outings. Yesterday, it happened again. You scratch and claw to get back to 4-4, then boom, Zito gives it away and you’re back to being down 6-4, then 8-4 after Mijares couldn’t close the frame out…

  6. twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:39 am

    “Long guy” is a bit of misnomer these days. Three innings is about the most the long guy goes, and 2 is usually the most we’ll see. Anyway, as Craig notes and I’ve also posted (and others I’m sure), if the long guy is a key to success we ain’t having successs.
    Actually those “long guys” sucked last year, too. Mota was bad, Loux imploded quickly, and Otero and Edlefsen were awful….
    I’m still having a hard time buying that the other shoe isn’t going to drop for Gaudin soon and I don’t think Timmy is going to the pen or Zito gets eaten by his guppy. We’d better hit…and hit some more…

    • Nipper said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:26 pm

      I concur.

  7. snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Cain has been getting back to form the last two starts, but he pretty much sucked all season before that. He was a gopher ball machine before the last two starts, and still is tied for 3rd in the NL starters for most HRs given up with 13. His WHIP is pretty decent at 1.19, but the ERA over 5 is terrible, and that’s after the two good starts recently. If you suck balls for one bad inning, a really bad inning, for a lot of your starts, then you suck and you’re not doing your job. Getting guys out in the other innings after one horrendous one doesn’t cut it. So, I’m hopeful his suckage is over and he’ll get back into form like the last two starts, but he has certainly been IMO, a significant part of the pitching problem so far. I agree that Sabes has to be working on getting a starter in here ASAP. That would allow Tim to go to the Pen, as Blade has called for, and drop one of the gas cans. As for those 4 “long men” mentioned — yeah, they are less than optimal. Bring Hembree up for a look see — if they don’t, geez, how bad does the Pen have to get to where he is an option? The other guys are at 91 Octane levels right now, maybe Hembree is at 89, that’s an improvement. Giving up 20 runs in 2 games to the Buccos, who have been averaging well under 4 rpg, has to be a slap upside the head to the Sabestrust to move quickly to right the ship on this pitching staff…

    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:42 am

      I think it is a given (question is when) that Sabes gets a starter. If he does, do you really think Tim goes to the pen before Gaudin? I think that would be the best move for the team, but would Bochy do that?

      • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 11:20 am

        Before, I didn’t think they would. But, when get another starter, I don’t see why not. Tim is not coming back to this team next season as a starter. The only way he might come back is as a Pen guy, so they might as well try it again as per last season’s playoffs. I’d say either way, he’s gone anyway somewhere else next year, so just try it…

      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:37 pm

        I agree. Just wondering (and I think it is more WHEN they get another starter…not IF) if they would send Tim to the pen before Gaudin…

  8. Alleykat said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Get me my man Jeremy Hellickson!
    Dude will eat up the innings and pitch well at AT&T and a new league IMO.

  9. twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:02 am

    They’re missing Casillla more than we may think. If he was here, they could be using Machi as the 2 to 3 inning guy. They could be forced to bring up Hembree soon.

    • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:22 am

      I agree losing Casilla hurt. I would be surprised if he’s back before mid-late July. That’s a problem…

  10. snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Giants are scoring 4.33 runs per game so far, 7th in the NL. That is plenty for them to win this division, if they have starting pitching doing its job. Clearly, the pitching is the issue that has to be addressed. Gyros are 13th in ERA, 9th in WHIP, 7th in HRs given up, 5th highest in BBs given up, 5th highest in Ks induced, 7th in BA against. So, they need to throw more strikes, and stop these big innings. According to the Merc, the Giants have given up 10 or more runs in 7 of the 64 games so far. That’s the highest total in the NL and is already more than the 6 such games from all last season. They gave up 10 runs 5 times each in 2011 and 2010. The Giants have given up at least 7 runs 15 times this season, 12 being roadies. They’re 2-13 in those games…

    • James said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:31 am

      To put an exclamation of sorts on this, every starter has a ballpark adjusted ERA below league average. The starting pitching has been an abomination, and talk of the bullpen and the offense, and even the defense, is a red herring in a discussion of major points of failure.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 11:22 am

        100 is average, for those who might not be familiar with ERA+, or ” ballpark adjusted ERA”. Lower is worse:

        MadBum 96
        Timmy 74
        Zits 72
        Cain 68
        Vogelsong 48

        Gaudin’s is 149 total, don’t know what it is in his two starts, probably a bit over 100.

  11. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Casilla going down and Gaudin moving to the rotation was one of the main reasons that I was so concerned about the bullpen a couple of weeks ago. Gaudin filling a spot just created another hole–a hole that has not been filled. Casilla’s role has also not been filled. The Giants can win games if the starters need to be pulled early, but not with the middle/long relief crew they’ve got right now.

  12. chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Here is another stat that exemplifies how bad the pitching is (this compliments of my friend Rain Man Mike).

    Giants have lost 3 games this year when they scored at least 8 runs.

    They lost only 4 such games over the entire span of 2010-2012.

  13. willedav said, on June 13, 2013 at 10:48 am

    pleading total ignorance here (not an oxymoron): the golf tournament is at site called Merion, where they have been worried about rain later in the day and it had been raining before. Any chance this affects SF game tonite?
    Didn’t Kobe play HS ball at *Lower Merion*? Where is that?

    • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 11:03 am

      Merion is in a western suburb of Philly called Ardmore. Pittsburgh is on the other (western) side of Pennsylvania, about 300 miles away. Still, I’m reading that there’s a hellacious amount of storm activity in the entire region…

      • willedav said, on June 13, 2013 at 11:25 am

        thx. I thought Kobe had been in Philly, that’s where his dad was from. Always liked Big 5 teams, iconic gyms and coaches, tough players.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 11:38 am

        Chances of rain for Pittsburgh for 7 P.M. and later is 30% according to the Weather Channel. Any heavy rain should be earlier.

      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:40 pm

        Not sure which way the storms are moving…if to the East (based on this current doppler shot) they should be ok.


      • Carl Spackler said, on June 13, 2013 at 1:25 pm

        I don’t think the heavy stuff is going to come down for quite a while.

  14. Irish Kevin said, on June 13, 2013 at 11:24 am

    as mentioned above The Giants first three? Hurt, in the dugout, I think the Giants should not panick just yet about their team. If/when Pagan, Pable get back I think the Giants will be okay. I think the pitching will improve. Timmy has a gem and then into the tank on the next start?? WTF happened. And lets face it the Giants need to be able to win on the road. and with all three working, Pitching, Hitting, Defense. Otherwise the it wont’ matter if they make the playoffs or not!

    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:42 pm

      Tim has been pulling these fucking shenanigans for a year-plus. It’s well past the time for his ass to go to the bullpen. Sabes has to be burning up the phone lines looking for a starter….

      And I agree…I am not panicking at all, but they do need to address the pitching…that shit is not going to sort itself out (IMNSHO)…

      • twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm

        Shenanigans ? That’s a new one, Chi.

  15. blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    I just watched/listened to a Buster Olney video clip regarding the Atlanta Braves pitching staff, which has been outstanding all year. They have a dilemma that is complex, with all five starters pitching great, who do they drop to the bullpen when Brandon Beachy comes back from the DL (possibly next week)?

    Per Buster . . .

    1. Mike Minor – No way he gets dropped to the bullpen.
    2. Tim Hudson – Again, no way it happens to him, but more to do with the fact that he is older and has seniority.
    3. Kris Medlen – Arguably has been their best starter, so again unlikely that he goes down to the bullpen.
    4. Julio Teheran – He will probably be the one that goes down to the bullpen . . . However . . .

    5. Paul Maholm – Could possibly be vulnerable . . . not to being sent to the bullpen, but as trade bait. His salary is $6.5 million this year and he’s 30 years old. He knows the NL and he is in a different division from the Giants. In short, along with the Norris, Garza, Hellickson, etc., possibilities, I add this name to the list.

    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:43 pm

      Fuck them and their “pitching woes!” You want to see pitching problems…bring your ass over to SF, Onley. I never have liked Onley…

    • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 1:58 pm

      Blade, what could Atlanta need that the Giants have and would be willing to give? I don’t know Atlanta very well, other than their pretty damn good all around. I don’t see much in the Giants high minors or on the big squad that is very attractive for trade bait. The low minor pitchers seem to me to be the top trade bait in the organization, and we need those guys to stay IN the organization, IMO, so that at least one, maybe 2 actually pans out into a ML pitcher…

  16. Nipper said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    My online fellow flappers this too shall pass.

  17. twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF

    2. Brandon Crawford (L) SS

    3. Buster Posey (R) C

    4. Hunter Pence (R) RF

    5. Brandon Belt (L) 1B

    6. Andres Torres (S) LF

    7. Joaquin Arias (R) 3B

    8. Nick Noonan (L) 2B

    9. Matt Cain (R) P

    Gametime Forecast: 63°F • Mostly Cloudy • 6%PoP

    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:44 pm

      I like Mudbug in the 2 hole (esp. with Scoots being out)…

    • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 12:59 pm

      I like Noonan in the 8 hole. Unfortunately, I like it when it’s a Fresno LU

      • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:13 pm

        He has been a “bit” overmatched at the plate. I’m with Salty (below) on why not Abreu? Didn’t he get 3 hits yesterday?…

    • twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 1:07 pm

      Well, the “B” LU scored 8, maybe the “C” will be OK, too.

  18. twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Henry noted that Belt’s infield single was the 2nd hit Liriano had given up to a LH hitter this year. When informed about it, Belt said “speeed never slumps”

    Dunning and Hector up, Ramirez DFA’ed, Pill down.

  19. salty said, on June 13, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    What did Abreu do wrong? He hits RHP as well as L. His leg still not 100%?

  20. snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Thanx for comin’, Ramon Ramirez. Kuiper this morning on KNBR nearly predicted that, but not in so many words. Don’t know jack about Dunning. Stats show in 36 IP for the Grizz this season, he’s at a .281 BA against. At least he’s not Ramirez. I thought Hector was still hurt. What’re we doing with 3 catchers? Is Buster going to play 1b again? Don’t know why they bring Pill up. He doesn’t play, or get many ABs. They ought to trade him for a long shot outfielder at A level or something…

  21. unca_chuck said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Dunning? Never heard of him. Not even here.

    • salty said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:42 pm

      I guess you were at lunch. 🙂

      salty said, on June 12, 2013 at 11:45 am

      Zeetso does seem to rise to the occasion when things look hopeless. Maybe.
      Looking for help from AAA….Hembree’s.last 10 appearances 6 ERA. Dunning?? Rosario another look?

  22. snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Just looked at Baggs’ tweets, he’s surmising like I did that with Hector up, they’ll play Buster more at 1b. Hell, maybe they’re going to trade Belt to get a pitcher, I wouldn’t be shocked, since he’s one of the few that’s young with potential, and Bochy’s probably tired of dealing with him. But, then who plays 1b?…

    • unca_chuck said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:24 pm


      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:40 pm

        I could see that (Belt traded for an arm) and Pill platooning 1st with Buster. They are going to have to give up something to get a decent starter. I don’t think Pill gets you the return you are looking for in a starter, and as others mentioned above, I don’t want to trade any of the young arms.

  23. blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Snarkk, in answer to your question regarding the Braves . . . We would definitely have to give up an elite position player. I have said this many times in the past – that you don’t get something for nothing. Take a look at their lineup – it stinks. The only exceptions are Freeman, J. Upton, and (maybe) Chris Johnson. The rest of that team is slumping big time. Uggla is finished. Put a fork in him. Their short stop sucks. McCann stinks as well. The other Upton is a disaster. Heyward is HR or bust. They have plenty of holes in my opinion.

    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:42 pm

      Fuck that. I think Sabes will find an arm that fits the need (4 or 5 guy) without giving up an “elite” position player. When you say elite, who on the Giants qualifies? Is Belt an elite player? Just wanting to understand what you mean by that term, Steve.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:50 pm

        Belt isn’t an “elite” player yet, but he could be one day, so perhaps that is the wrong word . . . Yeah, I could see him as a trading chip. When you say “fuck that” and yet say the GMen have to do something, please explain Chi . . . The Houston, Chicago (Cubs), or Atlanta GMs aren’t going to say to Sabes, “Uhh, yeah – let me bend over while you fuck me in the ass.” Any Flapper that thinks you are going to get a Hellickson, Norris, Garza, or one of the Braves pitchers for someone less than a Belt, Pence, Pagan, Crawford, or Panda is smoking some good shit. In fact, it will probably take more than one of our players to consummate a deal. Other than Buster and Panda, no one on our position roster rates a one on one with these pitchers.

      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:18 pm

        I meant “fuck that” in trading an “elite player” for an arm. I agree…I would not call Belt and elite player. Posey, Pence, Panda…those are elite players in my book. So, the “fuck that” was not directed at you, Steve. Just that no way I would trade a top-level player for an arm. Belt…would have to consider it.

  24. salty said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I can’t see them dealing Belt. That just fills one hole and creates another. I think it will be prospects or no deal. Besides his potential and GG defense, Belt isn’t arb elig until 15 and FA till 18. You want to keep him to offset some of the pricey contracts.

    • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:53 pm

      He’s a frickin’ first baseman, not a 5 tool center fielder. In my opinion, he does not have “untouchable” on his locker.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 2:56 pm

        “Orioles minor-league first baseman Travis Ishikawa, who was not in the lineup for Triple-A Norfolk Thursday, is expected to opt out of his minor-league deal on Saturday, the Baltimore Sun reports.

        Ishikawa has recorded a hit in six of his last seven games in the minors. He hit .316 with seven homers and 31 RBI in 49 games played.”

        Shit, bring him back . . . Travis is a good utility player in my opinion.

      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:20 pm

        Belt is not untouchable in my book either. I would prefer NOT to deal him, but as you have said Steve…you don’t get something for nothing. Salt – no way in hell I want to trade top prospects (especially pitchers). I would rather deal Belt than a top pitching prospect.

      • salty said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:38 pm

        Did I use the word “top”?

  25. blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Here is another “nut” like me who thinks the Giants will be looking to trade for a starting pitcher . . .



    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:22 pm

      Well, if you’re a nut for thinking so (I’ve been in the nuthouse for over a month). I saw this article…actually think I shared it a couple of days ago.

  26. sandog said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Gary Brown for RA Dickey. Let’s do this!

    • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:25 pm

      I would do that trade every day and twice on Sunday. 🙂

    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:26 pm

      Unless Toronto was looking to dump salary, I see no way in hell they would do this. Plus, he will be 39 in October, and has 12 mil owed to him each of the next two years, and a 1 mil buyout in ’16. When pigs fly…

      And even if the pigs did fly, not sure I want him with his age/salary.

      I would rather see (and expect to see) Sabes get like a 4 or 5 guy that isn’t going to cost an arm and leg.

  27. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Today is the one year anniversary of one of the greatest predictions the world has ever known

  28. twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    Steve: Who doesn’t think they’re not looking for a starting pitcher? And who called you a nut? i”ll have Zeke bite him..
    And contenders aren’t dealing starting pitchers, people..
    And Pill is not platooning with Posey- for one thing, it’s not a frigging platoon since they’re both RHed- AND the reason Pill was sent dowsn is because of Belt hitting LHers well…
    And here’s another reason- PILL SUCKS…

    • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:26 pm


      • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm

        People who smile all the time are sometimes suspected of being nuts.

  29. unca_chuck said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Belt is certainly not untouchable, but with little behind him, I’d hate to see them go that route. Pposey/Pill is a shitty solution.

  30. chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Yeah, I was off-base in even thinking of Pill/Posey sharing 1B duties.

    It is also the one year anniversary of Matty dealing his Perfecto. Matty on the bump tonight…

  31. chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    And I agree, Pill sucks.

  32. chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Hey, if they dealt Belt, maybe Villalona can come up and play 1B. (Calm the hell down…I am just kidding!)

    • twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:48 pm

      Hell, I just noted Angel’s HRs and Craig’s PC lit up like a pinball machine.. ( it’s a little feature I built into his computer, you should see it when I talk “xFIP” 😉

  33. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    If the Giants did want to take a stab with Dickey I doubt it would cost Brown. A low level prospect should do it. Toronto would do it just to get rid of the salary. Remember, they’re usually pretty frugal figuring, year in and year out, that they have no shot at the AL East title. This year, sensing weakness from the 2 powerhouses, they went for it with their big trade and taking on a bunch of salary. Oops. That didn’t work. The owner is probably telling the GM to pull the ripcord NOW

    • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:47 pm

      Seems that most teams are ripping Dickey this season, except for the Giants. The guy’s almost 40, with gobs of salary due. Not the best choice, no way Sabes does that. It’s the Nolasco and Norris types he has to be after…

      • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:51 pm

        well it could be the Giants are what cure him or it could be the NL. If it’s the NL, it could be worth doing.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 3:54 pm

        Hey, I don’t see this deal being made either . . . But, I would do it for a Gary Brown. His age is a non-issue. He throws a knuckle ball, not a heater. Shit, he could probably do that until he is 50.

      • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm

        I am with snarkk on this one. I am not interested, and would be VERY surprised if he is even on Sabean’s radar.

  34. snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Let’s get real here. Cain and Bum are the only two starters for sure back next season. The other 3 could all be gone, most likely at least 2 will (my guess is Voggy is back if he comes out of his rehab pitching OK). So, Sabes has to pick up one starter now, a guy he can control for a year or two, not a rental, to help fill out the rotation for next year, at least. Norris (signed thru only this year, but I think due for another arb year) fits that bill. Nolasco is a FA at end of this season, so he won’t command as much if he were under control next year, but the Yankees are supposedly in the hunt for him, so the price will go up because of those idiots. Nolasco is making $11.5M this year, so he would not be cheap to extend. He’s 30…

    • chipower9 said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm

      Well, don’t be surprised if the Giants pick-up Zeet’s option (18 mil…GULP)…How Vogey comes back will have some bearing on that (as you have mentioned, snarkk)…

      • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:10 pm

        Sheezus Chi, if Zito continues his home (success) vs. roadie (disaster) recipe, I don’t see how it makes any sense to pick up that option. There MUST be other pitchers out there that are better at 50% of that price. Here’s a list of 2014 FA pitchers as of 5/14/13 per MLB Trade Rumors, with (age). Notice how large Zito’s buyout is compared to the others, even Santana. Boy, did McGowan get bent over by Borassss…

        Bronson Arroyo (37)
        Scott Baker (32)
        Erik Bedard (35)
        Nick Blackburn (32) – $8MM club option
        A.J. Burnett (37)
        Chris Capuano (35) – $8MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
        Chris Carpenter (39)
        Bruce Chen (37)
        Bartolo Colon (41)
        Aaron Cook (35)
        Jorge De La Rosa (33)
        Scott Feldman (30)
        Gavin Floyd (31)
        Jeff Francis (33)
        Armando Galarraga (32)
        Freddy Garcia (37)
        Jon Garland (34)
        Matt Garza (30)
        Roy Halladay (37) – $20MM vesting option
        Jason Hammel (31)
        Aaron Harang (36) – $7MM+ mutual option with a $2MM buyout
        Rich Harden (32)
        Dan Haren (33)
        Roberto Hernandez (33)
        Tim Hudson (38)
        Phil Hughes (28)
        Ubaldo Jimenez (30) – may void $8MM option for 2014
        Josh Johnson (30)
        Jeff Karstens (31)
        Scott Kazmir (30)
        Hiroki Kuroda (39)
        Jon Lester (30) – $13MM club option with a $250K buyout
        Colby Lewis (34)
        Ted Lilly (38)
        Tim Lincecum (30)
        Derek Lowe (41)
        Paul Maholm (32)
        Shaun Marcum (32)
        Jason Marquis (35)
        Daisuke Matsuzaka (33)
        Brett Myers (33) – club option
        Ricky Nolasco (31)
        Roy Oswalt (35)
        Mike Pelfrey (30)
        Andy Pettitte (42)
        Wandy Rodriguez (35) – $13MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
        Jonathan Sanchez (31)
        Ervin Santana (31)
        Johan Santana (34) – $25MM club option with a $5.5MM buyout
        Joe Saunders (33) – mutual option
        James Shields (32) – $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout
        Tim Stauffer (32)
        Jason Vargas (31)
        Ryan Vogelsong (36) – $6.5MM club option with a $300K buyout
        Edinson Volquez (30)
        Tsuyoshi Wada (33) – $5MM club option
        Jake Westbrook (36) — $9.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout.
        Chien-Ming Wang (34)
        Suk-min Yoon (27)
        Chris Young (35)
        Barry Zito (36) – $18MM vesting option with a $7MM buyout

    • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm

      BTW, Nolasco’s ERA and WHIP this season are at 3.80 and 1.20.
      Norris is at 3.47 and 1.42…

  35. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    pathetic collective result from Pence, Belt and Torres.

  36. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    interesting comments from Hurdle about his pitching staff:
    The Pirates, like every other team in the major leagues, also keep a count on how many pitches each member of their pitching staff throws, whether they are thrown in games, during side sessions or warming up.
    However, Hurdle, in a bit of surprise, revealed earlier this week that he is no longer going to be a slave to pitch counts. He said is going to rely more on feel and game situations in deciding when to remove his starting pitchers.
    “I’m not paying attention to the number of pitches anymore — the rest of the year, for anybody,” Hurdle said.
    So why would an organization so reliant on advanced statistical metrics eschew what many baseball people believe is one of the most important statistics?
    “I don’t want anybody looking in the rearview mirror at 95 pitches wondering, ‘How many do I have left?’ Just pitch” Hurdle said. “If you have to have a number, pitch seven full innings and we’ll figure it out from there. I think the pitchers will welcome it,”

  37. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    bad luck for the Rox. They lost Cargo and Fowler to weird injuries. How long is unknown

    • salty said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:35 pm

      Watch out for those pesky Padres.

      • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:39 pm

        I picked ’em second to the Giants, then after the first two weeks skid, I thought they were done. Maybe not…

    • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:38 pm

      Tulo has bad ribs, too. That guy is always hurt. Cargo’ x-rays on his foot negative, looks like a bruise, day to day. Fowler hit on the hand by a pitch, no word yet on extent. The NL West is looking like the walking wounded division — this friggin’ division will go down to the last few days of the season…

  38. salty said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    Brown has gone 10-19, 4 dbls, 2 hrs in his last 4 games. I dunno. Maybe Tucson sucks or he’s finally shaking his slump.

    • Macdog said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:38 pm

      Trade him now while his value is high!

      • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:39 pm


      • snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:40 pm

        Crap, get him up here to pitch…

  39. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    In the 14th the A’s are 5 for 43 today. Ouch

    • Macdog said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:00 pm

      While the Yanks have stranded the equivalent of San Leandro’s population.

  40. Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Damn TV keeps beeping some kinda warning, glad I’m watching the game on the computer.

  41. Macdog said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    They’re going to the third overtime in Oakland.

  42. eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    I know I said I wasn’t going to do this this season, but damn-it I am a giants’ fan and win or lose I gotta be there with my team.

  43. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    It appears as if Matt Cain enjoys pitching on June 13th’s

  44. eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    It was during the 2010 season, before we all knew what was going to happen, that several here stated we had a 3 year window to get a WS with the pitchers we had then. 2013 was spoken of as the season we needed to re-group. Earlier this season we started to show some offense to address that. We also had avoided the injury riddled season with one notable exception. And now we have added the “run-down-interference” play.
    Go Gigantes!

  45. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    Alvarez got fucked there, he had no where to go

    • Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:35 pm

      Craw was a magician on that one.

  46. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Edd, hanging in there closing in on 2am. Nice. Gamer. How quiet is the street outside?

    • eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:38 pm

      Dead – if only these Brits knew what they are missing.


      • Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:42 pm

        Alright edd.

  47. Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    What a weird inning.

    • eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:42 pm

      Arias wants some playing time; not sure how hitting pence helps that though.

      • Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:44 pm

        I think Pence is supposed to look out for that kinda thing. Still all in all. I’ll take it.

  48. Alleykat said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    Shit if Busters pct of throwing out runners is only at 18% it would only get worse by acquiring Dickey a knuckle baller chucker.No chance ever for him to throw out a runner
    And has Posey even caught one?
    Mayne Dickey in the Allstar game and I’m sure he needed a glove larger then Fred Lewis which of course did him no good.
    Maybe the Monster glove in LF at AT&T might help.

    • Macdog said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:51 pm

      Mets fans think LaRussa picked Cain over Dickey to start last year’s All-Star Game because Posey didn’t want to catch Dickey.

      • Alleykat said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:59 pm

        Agree Macdog.
        Dickey had the better numbers of Cain,but I’m sure even LaRussa felt better starting the battery mates of Matt & Buster.
        No brainer IMO.

  49. Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    Blanco is having some fun tonight.

  50. Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    Yee Haw!!

    • Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:58 pm

      That was for the Pence dinger.

  51. Macdog said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    That should end the sus-PENCE!

  52. SanDawg said, on June 13, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    Boy, this was just what the Dr. ordered.

  53. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    Under Pants is having a real nice season for us

  54. eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    And from nowhere the team plays its ass off, injuries and all.
    The weird, wonderful, willie wonka factory that is baseball.

  55. SanDawg said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    We have a Brandon Inge sighting! I’m glad to see he’s still in the league.

  56. Macdog said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    It took awhile, but the A’s sweep the Yanks!

  57. eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Chavez goes 5.2 innings for the win.
    each team used 7 pitchers (14 total) and only 5 total pinch hitters, what a difference the DH makes?

  58. WilcoJoe said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    The flapalozza is Sept 7th?

    • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:40 pm

      yup. You coming out? How you been Joe?

      • WilcoJoe said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:53 pm

        Seriously considering it. Been too long since I have been to a Giants game not in Houston. 2006 last time i was there.

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:07 pm

        I do NOT rule it out. Repeat: do not rule it out.

      • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:10 pm

        it’s gonna be a blast. I know Zumiee, Chi and Ewisco are going and Blade and Pawlie might make it, San Dawg and Snarkk are also in. Not sure about Willie D and Ted but they came to the last Flapalozza. Might be forgetting someone or two. We’re meeting in the field club level, Those tickets are going >$100 but you can always easily score one the day of the game for less.
        Although if you fly out here you might want to get that set before hand 🙂

  59. Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Good job Matt.

  60. Macdog said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Somebody wanna tell Javy it’s 9-0?

    • Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:50 pm

      I would think the Dodgers might want to assist in his recovery as well.

      • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:02 pm

        fuck them. They’re already locked into a lawsuit that will take years to unfold. The Giants could and should help him with whatever his care needs are for the rest of his life. If they’re gonna parade him out at a game (granted, it was on the big screen) then they shouldn’t mind taking care of this guys needs when the cameras are *off*

      • Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:15 pm

        Agreed. But I also think the sale of the Dodgers should have included these monies. I’m not sure what the Giants as a team have done for him but I know Affeldt has been involved with the family since it happened.

    • twinfan1 said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:24 pm

      I posted about that yesterday, Craig.,
      But the more people know about it the better.

      twinfan1 said, on June 12, 2013 at 12:26 pm

      “On the subject of brain injuries and the toll they take, if you haven’t heard: Bryan Stow is at home- and that’s not all good news. I believe it’s his sister who posted this message in the link below. While his family is happy he is at home, the post tells of a familiar tale of our medical system and the insurance industry- Bryan was kicked out of the care facility when the insurance company stopped paying for it and is now at home still needing 24-hour care, which is also not covered by insurance.
      I’m sure the Dodgers and the Giants are both aware of this, but I will be contacting both anyway. I hope that other fans will do the same. His loving family will of course take wonderful care of him within their means but the man needs skilled care at home as well. I’d hope that the teams help them.


      • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:26 pm

        missed your post, sorry. I;m glad the family came out with this publicly that will put enough pressure on the Giants to do something.
        The Dodgers?
        No way, the new owners are gonna hide behind this being McCourt’s problem and I think we all know what McCourt’s response will be.
        crickets chirping……..

  61. Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    I don’t know how to find this stat, but it *feels* like there have been more 16/17/18/19 inning games this year than ever before. Anyone know where to see that stat?

  62. Alleykat said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    How fucked up is our medical insurance company’s when Bryan Stow’s family are now are their own,while these 2fuckin punk ass thugs get their insurance in jail.
    They should use both of those punks usable organs on Bryan’s full recovery.May those 2 rot in “HELL”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  63. PawlieKokonuts said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    I could not even get a look at a score until now. I am sometimes too volatile in my fan moods; I own that. Probably overstating the impact of a 9-0 lead in a game that is not over, but it strikes me as huge, big, ginormous: for the pitching, the hitting, the defense, the morale, the W-L record, the road trip, the team, the season, the state, the Bay Area, Giants Nation, and the cosmos.

    • eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:29 pm

      Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Owning my sometimes moods. On my hometown blog they were talking about how they do not like hash-tags and one gal said: “why do they call it hash, it was the lbs. sign when I was young.” And I went on a 2 paragraph explanation on the #1 reason £ is a pound sign, etc.

      Hope she received it in the spirit it was given.

  64. blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    Tulo has a broken rib and is projected to be on put on the DL (which I predicted – easy call) . . . At least 3-4 weeks, if not more. Gonzales and Fowler are banged up, but fine. Day to day for them.

    • Flavor said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:12 pm

      wow, that’s lot of firepower to lose in one day.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:19 pm

        Yeah Flav, Fowler still might be put on the DL, but he sounded confident that the swelling on his finger would decrease quickly, where he might only miss a game or two.

  65. eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Double digit runs, JFeld for the close.

  66. eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Be great to get some of this offense for Madison in Atlanta 2moronite

  67. Bozo said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:25 pm


  68. unca_chuck said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    PIttsburgh is usually a house of horrors for the G’s. Atl, isn’t. I don’t think. I think we take 2 of 3.

    • eddacker said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:31 pm

      and an Irishman takes the U.S. Open. what a week-end! then get out your cucumber sandwiches ’cause here comes Wimbledon.

  69. Nipper said, on June 13, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    Offense……I like it. More, more, more please.

  70. snarkk said, on June 13, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    I missed the entire game. Older Snarkette graduating (promoted) from middle school, onto high school this fall. Sheezus, seems like last week I was changing her dipes, and rocking her to sleep in between bouts of dastardly colic. I’m watching these young boys now, they are stupid fuks. I want them away from her. We all went out to PF Changs for Asian food, the older Snarkette’s choice. Not as good as the local Thai place, but what the hell? Mrs. Snarkk and I presented her with the iPhone gift to head into high school. She was jazzed, of course, since she’s one of the last ones in her “group” to get a phone, so we parents were on the shit list. But, we consider it a reward for things very well done in middle school. In our parenting universe, kids don’t just get stuff for doing jack sheeeit. Anyway, we saw in the booth nearby a good friend of the older Snarkette, plus her family, and also a 15 year old girl, another friend, that has leukemia. She’s been on/off chemo now for about 2 years. Was in remission, now things are uncertain, and she has to home school with all the BS she has to put up with. A cute young girl of that age with essentially a buzz cut on her noggin from chemo is a little unnerving, and just damn, well, not right. Plus, this last weekend, a very good girlfriend of older Snarkette, only 14, had to have brain surgery for a stroke, brought on by earlier surgery about 6 weeks ago for brain cysts. Mrs. Snarkk stayed with our friend, the single mother, at Oakland Children’s during the surgery. The girl is conscious now, things are looking maybe OK, her left side paralysis seems to be abated, but still iffy. I swear to Keereist, I am thankful my Snarkettes are just healthy. Every other damn thing about them is gravy. Go Giants, we got the 3-3 headed to Hotlanta, that’s just fine. Off to a Makers nightcap and a thanks for good health, so far, of my Snarkettes. Good health can NEVER be taken for granted…

    • blade3colorado said, on June 14, 2013 at 6:25 am

      Excellent post snarkk. I dated a woman 6 years ago that had a beautiful teen age daughter that had cancer. She went through chemo and eventually had a rib removed that was cancerous. She recovered. Fast forward a few years later (after her mom and I broke up), her mom called and told me that her daughter had passed away from this cancer that I thought she had licked. Sad. Life is short and that point is driven home when a young person is taken from us.

      You are an anachronism from our “Greatest Generation,” where children never got something for nothing. In other words, I admire the fact that you tell your kids they have to earn everything they get. Why? Simply because that’s how the frickin’ world works. Good job Tom!

  71. SanDawg said, on June 14, 2013 at 6:52 am

    Wow. Just finishing off a bowl of cereal before heading out the door to MY daughter’s 8th grade promotion and thought I’d log on to see if anything got posted on the night shift.
    Great stuff Snarkk, and obviously timely for me. Have a good morning fellas.

    • blade3colorado said, on June 14, 2013 at 7:01 am

      Another great post. Congrats SD . . . Have fun too!

  72. willedav said, on June 14, 2013 at 7:15 am

    I like Twin’s post from 9:39..”we better hit.” Hey, if SPs are scuffling, you take them off the hook by getting as many runs (and playing good D) as you can. We ain’t getting Marichal in his prime back–we got who we got right now. They give up one, you get two. They give up 4, you gotta get 5 (or 4.3) to win.
    Right now only real diff btw us and AZ is how well they have done on the road, and it seems that often comes down to SF pitching splits. Road parks that aren’t going to hold down runs like ours should mean more fun times for our hitters too….like yesterday.

    • Nipper said, on June 15, 2013 at 2:29 pm

      Wisdom from Willie D!

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