A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Marlins Continue Their Dominance of Us and Pa-GONE

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 21, 2013

“Eight in a row against the world champs…”

I know it’s the first time we’ve seen them this year, but they finished 29 games below .500 last year so it’s not like we were facing a better team last season. I didn’t really sweat Affeldt’s pitch to Ozuna when he had him 0-2. It’s not like he threw the ball over the plate. The maddening issue with the game was the impotent, putrid at bats we had against a pitcher that’s been bent over by the rest of the National League hitters.

And while we should be getting The Panda back (I’m setting the o/u at 3.5 pounds gained since last game played) we have likely lost the Crazy Horse for a long, long time. Strangely, for me, the news of his collapse  on the way to first base in Stockton last night didn’t devastate me. I mean, of course I felt badly for him. But Pagan hasn’t really been here all year even when he was playing. And the flip side is we get to find out what Perez can do for us long term. It’s going to be a tough balance for him, his electricity is infectious but he’s got to take his foot off the gas pedal in his at bats a little. Otherwise, he’s never going to see a strike to swing at again.

But whatever we lose at the plate with Pagan out and some combo of Torres/Perez/Blanco we certainly gain on defense in both LF and CF. So Pa-GONE for the next couple of months doesn’t equate to devastation. Yet. Let’s see how it plays out, who steps up, etc…..

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  1. Bozo said, on June 21, 2013 at 6:56 am

    According to MLB.com “The Marlins haven’t lost a series in San Francisco since they dropped two of three in July 2009”. That is a head scratcher for me.

  2. willedav said, on June 21, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Nolasco vs. Lincecum tonite…tell me who you would rather have on the mound?
    I understand how expensive front line SPs are going to be, but when you can fill the yard for mid week day game vs. the Pads and attract damn near as many to watch a night game vs. Marlins, the dough is rolling in.
    For the Giants, it shouldn’t be about the money, but instead the quality of the product. Imo, that’s what is killing them—paying out top dollar for the utter mediocrity of Z and Lincecum.

  3. xoot said, on June 21, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Before the game the papa/blue/laskey yakkers predicted a terrible pitching performance from the 0-5 Koehler and BP at the plate for the Giants. Yeah, that developed exactly as foretold.

    But I share the cautious optimism. One of Pagan’s best contributions early this year was the energy he injected into the games. Perez, in his own rookie way, looks like he can do that and more.

  4. chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 8:18 am

    I was swapping texts with a couple of friends last night, and that was my message exactly when the news on Pagan broke…”looks like Pagan is Pa-GONE!” I have the same attitude, Flavor. This just gives the team more time to evaluate Perez, and I also agree that he needs to turn the volume down a few notches on his ABs. The guy can hit…he just needs to learn to show a little patience at the plate.

    Just texted my friend Mike (Demp28). He was saying how he would have left Rosario in instead of bringing in (his words…Aff-uck). Players go through periods and scuffle. Affeldt is going through one now…I’m not sweating it.

    Many of you have probably seen the piece by Baggs on Gaudin (bruised) and the prospect of a Nolasco trade. Here is an excerpt:

    “The Marlins are laying the groundwork for a Nolasco deal, according to Juan Rodriguez of the Sun-Sentinel. As Juan writes, if the Marlins get what they want, they’re ready to pull the trigger.

    They’ll get less and less for Nolasco the closer they get to the trade deadline, so I wouldn’t expect any team to meet their price now. But hey, Freddy Sanchez and Mike Fontenot switched clubhouses at AT&T Park when they were traded in the middle of a series here. You never know.”

    If this can go down without the Giants sending any top prospects, I say Getter Done, now.

    Here’s the complete article:

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/andrew-baggarly/extra-baggs-gaudin-black-and-blue-nolasco-talks-trade-etc

    • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 9:54 am

      Juan has been a pretty good minor league hitter and excellent defender , his future here is as a role player. He’s been a welcome sparkplug..

  5. chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Yeah, not sure what it is with the Giants and the Marlins…certainly a head-scratcher. I had said with the way the Giants are playing at home, that I felt a 5-2 homestand would be considered a success. Well, with the Fish taking game one, the Giants need to take the next three to win the homestand 5-2. Come on…it’s the FUCKING Marlins.

    Supposedly Nolasco’s agent and the Giants have a good relationship (agent also represents Freddy S.). Eat the rest of that salary and get Nolasco’s ass over to the home clubhouse right now.

  6. unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 8:49 am

    The pisser is the pen has been blowing leads with regularity lately. Affeldt threw 2 pitches in a row that he shouldn’t have. Ozuna fouled off the 1st one, but didn’t on the 2nd one.

    • chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 9:16 am

      Hmmm…well, he certainly disagrees with you. Affeldt says outside of the pitch where he hit the batter that each of the pitches was exactly what he wanted to throw (location-wise, too).

      http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/affeldt-pitch-i-got-beat-was-pitch-i-wanted

      As I mentioned earlier…Affeldt is scufflying right now, but I am not sweating it…I think he’ll come around. I was more concerned with our offense (as Flavor mentions the NL had been all over Koehler…riding him like a Ho on payday), and yet he looked like Cy fucking Young for seven innings against our bats.

    • unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 9:30 am

      He can disagree all he wants. He shouldn’t be leaving pitches up in that situation. He did it twice. Yeah, we are banged up, yeah, you don’t win them all. But these blown leads are getting to me. Especially to a team like the Marlins.

      Say what you want about the anemic bats, the Giants had the lead in the 8th inning and squandered it.

      • unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 9:32 am

        I mean, there’s no diff if the score was 6-5 or if the score was 1-0. Affeldt blew it. He hit the 1st batter he faced, and then left shit up to Ozuna.

      • salty said, on June 21, 2013 at 9:42 am

        I also thought it was a bad 0-2 pitch…If that was where be wanted it, the scouting report was faulty. 😉

      • chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:01 am

        I get it. I don’t like the blown leads either. But everyone (pitchers and position players) go through stints like this. I’m just not worried about Affeldt at this point.

        And I’m not tripping on where they are as a team. They are two back even while having key guys out, etc. If they can play .500 ball on the upcoming roadie (Sherpas and Bums), then 15 of their 25 in July are at home. They get healthy and put the pedal to the metal. That’s my call right now. Time will tell.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:26 am

        Chi is correct on this, IMO. As far as the scouting report, Osuna very rarely goes the opposite way The hit batter was the pitch Affeldt regretted,.as he acknowledged. Considering the options Bochy has with Casilla out, Affeldt is the best in that spot, again IMO. He’s had a rough stretch, as all relievers do. He’s still a guy I want out there in tough situations.

      • xoot said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:21 pm

        If the 0-2 pitch had been lower, it would’ve been perfect for that count.

  7. PawlieKokonuts said, on June 21, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Not a conspiracy guy, but I doubt we’ll ever get the full Pagan story. If I see Larry Baer in Cooperstown this weekend, should I bring it up? No.

    • chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 9:08 am

      Perhaps only after you offer him a drink (and he accepts) and you get him “loosened-up” a bit. 😉

  8. salty said, on June 21, 2013 at 9:32 am

    “I’m setting the o/u at 3.5 pounds….”

    Giants are saying Panda has lost weight…

    • unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:17 am

      I’d go 3.5 oz.

      • blade3colorado said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:33 am

        That much, huh?

      • unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:40 am

        Well, they showed him taking grounders, and he didn’t look any different. I guess that’s a good thing. He didn’t balloon up . . .

      • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:44 am

        I saw what you saw, Chuckles. No one could possibly tell from that video if he gained 30 pounds or lost 30 pounds.

      • unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 11:36 am

        I think I’d be able to tell if Pablo gained 30 lb.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:01 pm

        “I think I’d be able to tell if Pablo gained 30 lb.” Not from that video of him taking grounders.

      • unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 3:29 pm

        Fuck Mike. If he gained 30 lb, he’d look like the Pillsbury dough boy. Do you have to refute every motherfucking post in existence?

    • Flavor said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:40 am

      I don’t believe anything the Giants say about stuff like this…….

      • snarkk said, on June 21, 2013 at 3:17 pm

        I take everything and anything the Giants say about players medical issues with a sack of salt. Pagan’s injury went from no biggie/no DL to day to day and then backdated 15 day DL to ready last weekend to now who knows — out for another month or more, or maybe even surgery. Giants might as well be a hockey team and just tell us whether something is a lower or upper body injury, and that’s all…

  9. James said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Just for the heck of it observation: like last year, Belt and Sandoval are having basically the same year at the plate.

    • chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 11:09 am

      Which plate is that for Pablito? The Blue Plate (special)???

      Just kidding…I believe (not sure if it was SanDawg or someone else) who said both he and his sister saw Pablo recently (within the last month), and that he looked “fit.”

      He comes back and plays a good 3rd and knocks the cover off the ball…I really don’t give a shit what he weighs. But I do get that if he is carry-around extra pounds that this takes its toll on your joints (knees, ankles, etc.) and also your ticker. I can’t imagine that his weight is not a topic of conversation when it comes time to discuss an extension/new contract.

      At this point I just want to see the dude playing some productive ball and contributing to some wins.

  10. twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 10:55 am

    I’ll go with the under… what’s the prize and who’s gonna weigh him 😉

  11. unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 11:38 am

    With Shamu out of the tank, he can stop by Marine World. . . .

    • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:05 pm

      The story we need to hear is the “Pagan Tale”:. which leg was he limping on last night?

  12. zumiee said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Before the Marlins series started, I was thinking that anything less than 3 out of 4 was a disaster; so now the Giants need to win 3 in a row. 🙂

    • chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:38 pm

      That is why I said had said that I thought 5-2 would be a successful home stand.

      2 of 3 from the Friars. Check.

      And then 3 out of 4 from the Fish. Uh…yeah…they will need to win the next three.

  13. Macdog said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    I don’t get why there’s some animus here toward Pagan. Yes, Perez is an upgrade in CF, but that’s where it ends. Pagan, IMO, is greatly missed in the lineup. Carl Steward summed it up best on the Pav blog:

    “It’s probably more of a psychological loss for the Giants than anything, because they have covered his loss reasonably well offensively and defensively. But Pagan brings an unmistakeable fire to the club that is missed beyond statisical means of measurement. The performance of Juan Perez in center field has been all well and good, and Gregor Blanco’s job in the leadoff spot has beeen serviceable if not outstanding.

    “But it just seems like something valuable is missing without Pagan. His swagger rubs off, and his hard-nosed play sets a tone, as Brandon Belt noted after the game. He’s the sparkplug, and instead of being back in the lineup this weekend and throughout that challenging roadie, the Giants have to Band-aid it again and hope for the best.”

    • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:26 pm

      His play has been substandard.

    • chipower9 said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm

      Well, I don’t see his play as “significantly” sub-standard. Yes, his numbers are a bit under his lifetime averages.

      I would tend to agree with Pav…the team misses him for more than what he puts up in the box score. I certainly think the team is better when he is healthy and he is in the line-up on a regular basis…stats be damned.

      And if memory serves correctly, most here thought that it was a good signing when the Giants extended him.

    • blade3colorado said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:57 pm

      Agree with Mac . . . He is indispensable in my opinion. Sheesh, the last play he was here for will be vivid in my mind forever (inside the park HR). Without him last year, no championship. Also, the dude is injured and I don’t see him dogging it ever – this time or any other time. His run to 1st base and coming up lame last night is all the proof I need to know that this is a serious injury. ‘Nuff said.

  14. twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    He’s been the worst lead off hitter of those who have batted there and the worst CFer of those who have played there. I would expect that his teammates suppport him- as they would and do when any starter goes down.

    • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 12:59 pm

      Pav said “Gregor Blanco’s job in the leadoff spot has beeen serviceable if not outstanding.”
      Blanco has been heads and shoulders better in the lead off spot, Not even close. The numbers do matter. Even Vungo has been better there when he’s batted lead off against LHers since Pagan went AWOL.

      Numbers as the leadoff hitter:
      Blanco .286 BA .345 OBP .748 OPS
      Pagan .263 BA .315 OBP .692 OPS
      Torres .333 BA .405 OBP .821 OPS

      • Bozo said, on June 21, 2013 at 2:12 pm

        I think it would be fair to mention that Pagan has had 186 ABs batting in the leadoff slot, whereas Blanco has had 84 ABs and Torres 36.
        In that slot Pagan has created 54 runs (24 RBIs and 30 R) and also had 6 SB,
        Blanco has created 17 runs (9 RBIs and 8 R) with 4 SBs,
        Torres has created 5 runs (3 RBIs and 2R) with 0 SBs.

        If my numbers are correct, I can see where some players see Pagan as a sparkplug not to mention how jacked up he seems to get in the dugout.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 3:09 pm

        OBP, slugging pct, and BA are more reliable for judging individual performance. It *is* fair to note that Pagan has batted more in the leadoff spot but that doesn’t neccessarly help his case. It’s a matter of opinion as to how Blanco and Torres would perform if given Pagan’s at bats, it’s a matter of fact they’ve both been better in the opportunities they’ve had in the leadoff spot ( as far as what they can indivually control)..
        But I do understand the sentiment for Pagan, he became a driving force last year the plate and was respectable in the field.

      • Bozo said, on June 21, 2013 at 4:31 pm

        I wasn’t disagreeing with you..But in my mind having 150 less at bats really does make it “a matter of opinion”.
        You don’t agree that the number of ABs should have being included with your numbers for a more fair comparison?

      • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 5:18 pm

        He’s been worse more often 😉
        I did point out Vungo’s AB’s. But seriously, it’s not opinion that they’ve been better as I stated it: ” in the opportunities they’ve had in the leadoff spot..”
        But most of all I have no intention of arguing with you, John. I think my position is entirely supportable, and I understand yours, as well. BTW, you inspired me to grow Broccolli Rabe this year and we’ve been enjoying it for a couple of weeks. The hot weather is about to finish it off, though.

      • Bozo said, on June 21, 2013 at 6:13 pm

        “He’s been worse more often ” and Yungo (not sure why you call him Vungo) has been productive less often.
        So glad to hear about your garden, hey I wonder if you could humor me on something? I have an O/U bet on how many times you’ve heard the term “Fuck You, Asshole”? I went with over a thousand, was I close?

      • sandy said, on June 21, 2013 at 6:31 pm

        must be the booze.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 6:41 pm

        I was joklig about “worse more often” and not joking about the Broccoli Rabe, I never meant to insult you about the delicious sounding sandwich in the first place..
        . Pretty much everybody has called Andres “Vungo” because that was what it was said to be according to the press guide,until he said differently.But it just stuck. It’s now “Yungo” for me, Bozo.
        Now, on your next question: actually no one has ever said that to me, nor would they have any reason to, John.

  15. unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Since Gregor Blanco’s my BFOTT (best friend on the team), I’d have to agree with Mike . . .

    (insert gay-ass smiley face here)

  16. twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    I was joking about which leg he was limping on…but it’s inescapable that he’s played much worse than he did last year, he’s down across the board and by a LOT. If he were ready now, he should bat 7th and play LF.

  17. unca_chuck said, on June 21, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    He ain’t ready, and that will never happen.

    • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 1:54 pm

      I said “should”. If I think it will happen, I’d say “would” or “will”..

  18. James said, on June 21, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    I’ll believe Pagan has been missed when Timmy and Zito say his absence has hurt their pitching efforts.

  19. Nipper said, on June 21, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    He’s GONE! Forget him and move on.

    • Bozo said, on June 21, 2013 at 4:46 pm

      Hey Nipper, how’s it going?

  20. twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF

    2. Marco Scutaro (R) 2B

    3. Buster Posey (R) 1B

    4. Hunter Pence (R) RF

    5. Hector Sanchez (S) C

    6. Joaquin Arias (R) SS

    7. Andres Torres (S) LF

    8. Nick Noonan (L) 3B

    9. Tim Lincecum (L) P

  21. James said, on June 21, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    The team’s offensive production has so far remained steady through all of the injuries. Are Pablo and Scutaro anti-sparkplugs?

    • James said, on June 21, 2013 at 3:40 pm

      Ok, I am nearly ready to ask for editing rights.

      • twinfan1 said, on June 21, 2013 at 4:20 pm

        I will be glad to edit your post for you. Did you mean to say ” As always, twinfan1 is correct?” 😉

      • James said, on June 21, 2013 at 5:31 pm

        I can repay your kindness by going so far as to say “twinfan1 is never ‘wrong'” 🙂


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