A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Did Sabean Screw Up in the Off Season?

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 8, 2013

Did we fail to improve our team enough this year? Sabean brought back the same team in 2013 and he did the same thing in 2011. Should it be a surprise that this team is 7 games under .500? Do you wish Sabean had done more to improve the team?

When Harbaugh was hired by Stanford he put up a HUGE banner that stretched the entire end zone of the practice field. It says “You are getting better or you are getting worse. You never stay the same.”

It’s a great point.

Is this something Sabean needs to learn?

82 Responses

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  1. Nipper said, on July 8, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Healthy players would help. A Pablo that is in shape would be nice. Cain staying away from the blow-up innings would be a positive. Lincecum being consistent would be a great benefit.

  2. paulinasia said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:00 am

    We weren’t questioning the make up of this team back in May when they were pitching worse than last year but hitting better. Remember all those come from behind wins? Great fun! That seems like ages ago. And yet, other than Pagan, the lineup is pretty much the same; the same as when it was 8 games over .500 sometime in May, the same as when they won the Series last year. The only criticism Sabean should’ve gotten was the length of contracts for Pagan and Scutaro, IMO. Now, though, different story. The team obviously needs to *get better*, both for this year, and next. I still trust Sabes will do that. It’s on the existing players to get their heads out of their asses and start hitting and fielding better.

  3. chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:05 am

    I don’t know…I was pretty happy with the team that started the season. Nipper makes good points…I think where we are at this point in the season is more a reflection on the players than anything else.

    Hell, at this point it is easy to play devil’s advocate and say “damn, if Sabean had only added a starter, OFer (name your position of choice), we would not be in this position.” I don’t buy it.

    Obviously there was a lot of thought and discussion between Sabean and his crew (Evans, Tidrow, etc.), which included Bochy and his staff, and they decided to roll the dice with this team.

    I will go back to a comment I made on the last thread that points to one of the things killing the team right now (in addition to the abysmal numbers with RISP). This had to do with the 9th inning yesterday. There was not only the initial error by Buster, but then the bad decision to flip the ball (I saw a post-game interview with him, and he owned it), but on the come-backer, Romo checks/holds the runner at 3rd, and then spins to start what potentially could have been an inning-ending DP, but no one was at 2nd. So, in addition to not being able to drive in runs, there is the seemingly lack of ability to play solid fundamental ball.

    Outside of the injuries, I still put this (state of the team) more on the players than on Sabean not improving the team.

  4. snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:21 am

    You can’t get a lot better or change a lot of things in an offseason when your minor league cupboard is shockingly bare of real MLB-level talent. The screw up occured before in not properly drafting, signing and developing impact players in your system that are pushing to get onto your 25-man…

    • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:38 am

      Acquiring free agents is not dependant on the farm system.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:47 am

        Tell that to Billy Beane. He’s got the A’s in first place the last two seasons while continually re-stocking with farmhands; and they’re just bringing up their 25 year old 2009 first rounder 2nd baseman to start tomorrow in Pittsburgh. Chances are he will do well and stick…

      • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:20 am

        Oh- other than the one as a talent-less scrubini with the A’s, how many rings does Beane have with that brilliant strategy of drafting stars to shine with other teams?
        “they’re just bringing up their 25 year old 2009 first rounder 2nd baseman to start tomorrow in Pittsburgh. Chances are he will do well and stick…” uh, you mean like Weeks did? You know, their *2008* first rounder second baseman…

    • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:09 am

      That doesn’t have a single thing to do with the fact that acquiring free agents is not dependant on the farm system.You said: “You can’t get a lot better or change a lot of things in an offseason when your minor league cupboard is shockingly bare of real MLB-level talent.”.. without getting into an argument about the talent in our farm system, the quoted statement is completely false.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:07 pm

        Acquiring FAs has zilch to do with the health of your farm system? Your conclusion is a total non sequitur. It’s absurd. If your farm system is bare, you acquire FAs to fill holes out of necessity, else you suck. No organization wants to be in that position, it’s risky and costly. If you have a steady stream of prospects coming up and performing, you pick and choose FAs to put you over the top…

      • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:31 pm

        The statement was in response to your completely false ” “You can’t get a lot better or change a lot of things in an offseason when your minor league cupboard is shockingly bare of real MLB-level talent.”..
        No successful team is built exclusively through the draft but in fact our present team is heavily populated with draftees, as I’ve outlined below and previously.In recent years Sabean has done what every consistent contender has to do: build through the draft, trades, and free agents.
        You’ve been totally obesssed of late with a temporary low rating of our system and your absurd suggestion that other teams have a constant supply of future All-Stars ready to step in and Pipp the injured.
        A good guy for a realistic look at our system and others is John Sickels, one of the best, IMO. And no, it’s not a polly look.


  5. twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Well, we were pretty much all happy about it on prediction day. I think Paul was the only one who didn’t pick us to win the division and he still had us winning 90+ games.( there was a since banned user who picked us 2nd but still in the playoffs) So I’m afraid there’s no one to say he told us so…we were all in.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:46 am

      I’m still all in (like the rest of us I presume).

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:03 am

        I’m near the ledge, Blade. This Mets series is a bellwether for me. The Mets are not great, but playing better lately, and good starters. If the Giants can’t win this series, I”m not asking for a sweep, I’m fully on the ledge pending any Sabes moves in the next weeks. There’s no sugar coating of 50+ games playing the worst ball in the majors…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:08 am

        Fortunately, everyone not named the Snakes are also playing crappy baseball.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:10 am

        By the by, you should see the comments in the Denver Post the last few days in regard to the Rockies and Nuggets. Fans are about to storm the bastille with pitchforks and torches.

      • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:14 am

        I’m nowhere near looking for ledges, but I may have to start digging around to find my pitchfork and torches.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:20 am


      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:37 am

        Would it be a sign of even more frustration and desperation; or indecision — to get out on the ledge WITH pitchforks and torches?… 😉

      • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:12 pm

        I’m busting out the pitchforks and torches to storm the Castle (24 Willie Mays Plaza)…specifically the office of one Brian Sabean, to demand that he have faith (like the faith of the Flappers) and that he goes and gets the pieces that return our Giants to the promise land.

  6. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:38 am

    The 2011 team would have been fine barring Posey’s injury. This team was doing fine this year until the big rash of injuries. So, no. Sabes did what everyone was pretty much advocating. And that was to keep Pagan and Scutaro and lock down Matty and Posey. The deals were what they were. Argue those as you will. At the time in 2010 EVERYONE wanted Huff back. Easy to look back and say WTF with Scutaro and a 3 year deal, balky back, etc. but like Mike said, most were on board with keeping the team intact last March.

    Again, I think Bochy could very well get the axe if this team continues to play sloppy-ass baseball. It isn’t just the errors in the field, it’s the lack of fundamentals. Whether it’s Timmy not covering home, no one covering 2nd on a potential DP, or the baserunning lapses, this team is completely out of whack and is playing like a last place team, not the defending champs.

    It probably won;t happen, but if this team continues to roll at a 10-22 clip, and they are 15 under .500 by the end of July, Sabes could pull the trigger.

  7. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:42 am

    No one has a crystal ball. As Chi, Paul, and Nip pointed out – we were happy with this team going into the season.

    Snarkk, 99.9999% of the time I agree with you, including what you said about Romo acting more professional with regard to blowing off reporters. They are people too, just like the fans. Or, is that corporations? . . .

    Anywho, I definitely disagree with you regarding the minor league cupboard you maintain should be brimming with talent. They won two frickin’ World Series in 3 years dude and except for a relatively brief dry spell after Bonds left, they have been contenders in most of the millennium. In my mind, minor league players can/should be used as “currency” to improve the team, unless they are “CAN’T MISS” like Lincecum was. The Wheeler and Beltran trade was a calculated risk and not too many people were complaining when that trade went down.

    I think the Giants and Sabean are doing an outstanding job in all aspects of running the organization. They aren’t perfect, but along with JC, I “worship” at the feet of this current Giants ownership and management team every morning, giving thanks to the 2 World Series they brought to San Francisco fans.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:56 am

      I was up for Sabes re-signing Scutaro, signing Pence. Yep. And, Pagan. Like the rest of us. My point in this process is that what other choices were there? Not internally-developed players. No there, there. We’ve seen the parade of our so-called most ready call ups already — Noonan, Peguero, Perez, Pill, now Gillespie. Pfffft. So, when the injury bug hits and the cupboard is bare below to replace the injured with capable players — I’m not even asking for star rookies — what’s the answer? Trade what few prospects you have to stop the bleeding now? That just leads to an even bigger hole in the next few years in the farm system and the big squad. Next off season the Giants are going to offload Zito and Tim and use that money to restock for need at position players and starters. That’s OK, but with no impact minor leaguers on the immediate horizon, that turns into a crapshoot and a real risky proposition for success. Blade, what do I have to do to get that final .0001? :)…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:06 am

        Hehehe . . . For me to know and you to find out. Grin.

        “Trade what few prospects you have to stop the bleeding now? That just leads to an even bigger hole in the next few years in the farm system and the big squad.”

        Without example situations, I agree with your statement snarkk. Regardless, I trust Sabes to be circumspect and exercise due diligence when he makes any trade decision.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:28 am

        My knowledge of the Giants farm system is not that deep, I admit. I don’t have time or inclination to study it; but we all know it’s rated poorly. The most talked about prospects are always Brown, Panik, Crick, Blackburn, Stratton, that seems to be the short list. We’ve already seen the parade of guys up this year, I don’t consider any of them prospects — trade any or all of them, I don’t care. Those others above, I would not trade now in the position we’re in. 7 games under .500 beyond the midpoint of the season is just not good. Not a death sentence in a bad division, but that poor of a performance is hard to expect to turn around, particularly with a rotation that has been rocky, and all the injuries. My position is don’t make a trade now that won’t matter. I suspect Sabes will make some move, but not a big one, because he figures this team could go either way, north or south. Some years you just have to take your lumps. This looks like it could be one of ’em…

  8. Flavor said, on July 8, 2013 at 10:51 am

    I largely agree with all you guys but wanted to use the Harbaugh quote so there ya go

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:00 am

      ‘”What’s the deal” with Harbs seen at an A’s game last week, or the week before?
      Is he bandwagoning?…

  9. chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Two world series titles in three years has spoiled our asses, and set our expectations high. And there is nothing wrong with high expectations. I agree with most in saying that overall (and I am talking the past 10 or 15 years), Sabean and crew have done a good job of putting a competitive team on the field. Some teams (the A’s) do it through their farm. Some (Giants) find another way to skin that cat.

    As Blade said…I trust Sabes to make the required moves (or non-moves).

    Now where the hell did I put that pitchfork and those torches!!??

  10. snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Bonds was at the game yesterday. They should have signed him for one day and put him at 1B. 😉
    He couldn’t have botched that grounder much worse than Buster, and would probably have at least hit a liner or two off Kershaw…

  11. twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Sandoval, Wilson, Romo are all home grown All-Stars ( or sooon to be, in Romo’s case) . 2 CYs, an MVP, a World Series MVP. Belt and Crawford are young guys who many believe have All-Star potential. Scooter was NLCS MVP and a 2013 All-Star thanks to the trade of home grown product Culberson. Pence for home grown players Joseph and Schierholtz.
    Sabean has also added pieces thru other trades and free agency and deadline magic ( in most cases ), but the farm system and his development of it is why we’re still basking. I’m not getting this year’s draft and there’s not the next Posey or MadBum at the ready, but I think I’ll join the other reasonable folks here and have a little faith…

    • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:54 am

      Thanks . . . I was thinking the same thing (below).

    • salty said, on July 8, 2013 at 12:27 pm

      Excellent cap.

    • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 12:37 pm

      You nailed it, Michael (as you do more often than not).

  12. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Am I loony toons in thinking that the Giants have actually been outstanding in the draft? In recent years, few MLB teams have had more success with their first-round draft picks than the Giants in my opinion. Led by former draft picks like Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Sergio Romo and Madison Bumgarner, the Giants’ skill at drafting and developing young talent has been the key factor in them winning two of the last three World Series. Yes, I get that things haven’t always been that way, however. The Giants, like pretty much every other team, have plenty of former draft picks that didn’t work out. For every Buster Posey, there’s a Nate Bump or Boof Bonser (great names though, huh?).

    • xoot said, on July 8, 2013 at 12:50 pm

      I agree, although your list of draft picks includes four first rounders and Romo, a 28th rounder. The Giants picked Lincecum and Bumgarner 10th in their drafts, and Posey 5th in his. The Giants also were smart enough to grab both Cain and MadBum out of high school. And Twin’s post above lays out a thorough argument in support of the Giants general success at finding and developing and dealing home-grown talent in the post-Bonds era. Now, if they’d just dip into that Cuban defector pool . . . .

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:32 pm

      Look to the near future. What home grown talent is COMING UP soon to replenish this team? The farm system is not ranked near the dumpster fire by all the ratings organizations for no reason. A good organization consistently develops internal talent, it doesn’t have stretches of several years of holes in the pipeline…

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:01 pm

        Of course teams can lose pressure in the pipeline. It can happen when you have a run of terrific winning seasons and your first round slot is set at the reverse order of your finish. Look at how deep the Giants have been picking in the first round since they started winning this time around–the four years 09-12. (Wheeler was a 6th pick in the first round in 09. Earliest picks since then have been 20, 24, 29 and 49.) I realize that Cain was 25th pick or something like that in 2002, but scouting of high school players has improved substantially since the Moneyball year. And Buster, Bumgarner and Lincecum were all top ten picks.

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:13 pm

        Also, I’m having trouble finding a rating organization, other than Bleacher Report, that has ranked the farm systems since the draft this year. The rankings that proliferated when ST started seem a bit outdated.

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:18 pm

        mlb’s prospect watch still has Yasiel Puig rated 62nd and Kyle Crick 71st.

      • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:44 pm

        A 25th overall pick has about a 75 percent bust rate. The Angels struck it rich with Trout, but as a rule, if you’re picking at the back end of the drafting order, you’re drafting a fine young man who will do quite well tending bar one day…

  13. chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Seven under .500 and 6.5 back, and it took Zona running-off a little 5 game win streak to help put us there.

    Shit, there’s 75 left to play, and Sabean may just surprise us all and go shopping. Anyway, I couldn’t find that fucking misplaced pitchfork or the torches, so I think I will just bask in the memories of two World Series titles in three years, a couple of parades, etc. and bask my ass off until game time.

    Just remember, it could be worse…you could be Cubbie, Astro, or Brewers fans…

    Just saying…

  14. salty said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    In addition to the rings, we were spoiled with guys like Buster Tim Pablo Bum, quick rise, all of whom hit the ground running. The bar was set high for prospects. I do think that had a affect on their treatment of Belt, though I don’t think its been as bad as portrayed. Still, after what he did in the minors, there was good reason to expect him to be All Star material quicker. Same perhaps with Brown after his A ball year. Wheeler was expected to quickly join Then rotation. Now Crick is being compared to Cain, who made his debut at 20.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:36 pm

      Without being too repetitive, Belt was brought up too soon, and dumped into a situation to produce at the MLB level. And, during this OJT as a major leaguer, management fucked with his swing, too. JT Snow said he was rushed up. Freddie Freeman is on the NL All Star 5 pick em list. He had one full AA and AAA season each and something like 1000 more minor league plate appearances than Belt before he was brought up. Belt had very limited stints in AA and AAA. He’s not Will Clark, but expectations were heaped on him like he was…

  15. zumiee said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    This Mets series is obviously a huge series for the Giants, and a large indication of what’s ahead, one way or the other. And the Wheeler game is lying in the weeds like some kind of potential nightmare snake. Getting shut down by Wheeler would be the icing on a 2013 crap cake. And stop me before I mix more metaphors.
    Yeah, my dauber’s down. 😦

    • Flavor said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:20 pm

      I thinking Wheeler isn’t gonna shut us down. 16k’s vs 13 walks in 21 innings doesn’t scare me

    • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:33 pm

      What makes the Mets series any larger than any upcoming game/series? I don’t buy it. There are 75 games left, the Giants remedy for all that ails is to start winning games (especially in their division) and to win series. You win series everything else takes care of itself. I would say the four game series that follows (against Dago) is bigger than the Mets series. And the Zona series post the All Star break is going to be big, too.

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:44 pm

        My reasoning is the math on that. The D-Backs are playing the Dodgers, so the potential to fall behind one of those teams more.

      • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:10 pm

        I don’t think you can get caught up in that…not with so many games left to be played. If anything, it is big because it is the first after losing a series they could have won.

        Again, you win games, and more importantly, series, and everything else takes care of itself.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:41 pm

        At some point, you have to win games. The number of “games left” starts dwindling, and the number of clubs you have to overtake is high. Giants have to win the div or go home, a wild card looks clearly improbable already…

  16. zumiee said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Actually the biggest metaphor of the season so far is the Giants batting out of order in the first inning the other day, costing them a run. In its own way, that’s classic. If you’re going to go down the tubes, go spectacularly.

    • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:29 pm

      They won the game regardless of batting out of order.

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:42 pm

        Which is good, because Bochy would have had a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm

        I still don’t really get his “splainin on how it happened. Miscommunication between the “electronic” board and the official linups. OK, somebody entered something wrong somewhere, and didn’t catch it. The mystery is whom. Bochy fell on the sword, which he obviously had to do…

      • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:14 pm

        lqtm…yep, Splain that one, Brian.

  17. zumiee said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    And regarding Romo….Mariano Rivera sat there yesterday and answered all the questions after giving up the game-winning HR to Balt. The problem when a player ducks out after not doing well is that the reporters go seeking out other players, and the other players have to deal with the reporters or duck out.
    My wife doesn’t particularly like Romo. Her question about Romo is “Why does he shoot God after getting a save?”
    I have no idea.

  18. salty said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    I’m looking forward to seeing the much hyped Wheeler and have zero regrets about that move, no matter what he does. Wish him well, just not against us. It was a calculated gamble that didn’t pay off.
    I like what Sabean said. You don’t fret about it, you go out and find another one.

    • zumiee said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:52 pm

      I agree with you totally, Salty. I don’t mean to give the impression I don’t agree with that.

      • salty said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:14 pm

        No prob Zumiee.

  19. Macdog said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    I don’t know how many of you have seen Harvey pitch, but this guy’s the real deal. He’s got all the pitches, excellent control and knows exactly what he’s doing out there. My biggest concern tonight isn’t whether or not the Giants can win, it’s whether they can even get a hit since Harvey’s already flirted with a no-no a couple times this season. And the funny thing is that it’s put even more pressure on Wheeler to try and match the high standard of success set by Harvey.

    • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:08 pm

      No doubt…Harvey is a stud. Giants with their anemic bats have their work cut out for them. It’s time for the bats to come alive.

    • salty said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:16 pm

      Pablo needs to visualize Verlander and game one.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:08 pm

        He could also visualize a plate of vegetables rather than whatever it is he’s eating…

  20. sandog said, on July 8, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    It’s funny that Zum mentions the batting out of order thing. Yesterday afternoon I took my daughter and her best friend (they’re both 13) to the beach for some skateboarding and a swim. Afterward, we went to Hodad’s–a popular burger place down here. Her friend knows I’m a big Giants fan and out of the blue she started giving me shit about the Giants batting out of order. “Way to go Giants—batting out of order” It was actually pretty funny that this 13 year old girl who, to my mind, pays little attention to team sports, was giving me crap about that blunder—but it did seem to put a bow tie on what a rough stretch this has been.

  21. twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Not all prospects hit the ground running- Timmy had a mediocre first year (24 starts)- so much so that renowned couch GMs Twinfan and BigFlavor urged that he be traded for… yep, Alex Rios..Now? We’d probably have to throw in a prospect and a few million bucks to get the deal done. But I doubt any of us are wishing we’d done it then.I’ve knocked the little stoner reprobate and Craig sure has, as well.But I love the wee whippet and who among us will forget the thrills he’s given us? I have no idea where I’m going with this, maybe just saw a chance to get “wee whippet” into a sentence… oh, I know- Wheeler. I have my view on why I believe it was a bad trade, but it’s been discussed enough.After Wednesday I wish Zack well- I’m not one who thinks it would be a good thing that Wheeler turned out to be a bust. I think I said this about Alderson after the Fruckie trade. I’ll presume that Sabean answers to the board and I’m just not seeing this rationale “Hey, remember Zack Wheeler? You know, the dude I drafted 6th in the first round in ’09? Yeah, that guy, the dude I said was better than Trout? Well, really good news. I was totally wrong, he sucks..”

  22. chipower9 said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Wow…when it rains, it pours. Arias to the DL – appendectomy. Noonan called-up.

  23. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Shit, yer kidding. Sabes musta broke a mirror while walking under a ladder. This is getting crazy.

  24. snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    I kinda chuckle when I hear how great Sabes has been (Marty Lurie) over time at offloading garbage minor leaguers that didn’t amount to much post-trade with their new team, for guys that have helped here in SF. OK, at one level that makes sense. But, on another, Sabes was the guy that drafted and developed these garbage guys in the first place, so they took up space in the system that better players, keepers, would have taken, had he selected better players. Yes, I know you can’t draft a winner every pick. But at some point the current low state of the minors has to be recognized rather than rationalized with past exploits; and it is reasonable to ask why it is so now as a part of evaluating the front office going forward…

  25. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    They need (or perhaps, we need) to move on. Injuries are part of the game. Again, we haven’t had nearly the injuries other clubs have had this year or any year in recent memory, that our divisional foes have had. Dodgers? Anyone heard of Matt Kemp? How about Crawford? Not going to go through the laundry list of stars they have lost, but it’s been a lot. Rockies? How about Tulo (just about every year). Sheesh, the Rocks have lost him, Fowler, and Cargo on the SAME DAY this season. Yesterday, they lost Oswalt (DL) and Cargo (day to day) to injuries in the game against the Snakes.

    I’m certain the players recognize this is part of the game and they rarely use that as an excuse. Why? First, it’s self defeating and second, no one in the division is going to give a rat’s ass. Anywho, the screw has turned on us this season (as it did in 2011 when Posey went down for the season). Over the last few seasons, I doubt there is a team in MLB that has been as fortunate as our pitching staff has been in avoiding injury.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:29 pm

      Blade, you are spot on about the pitching staff lack of injuries. A very BIG reason for the success. You’re there — how does this Tulo guy get hurt so often and for so long? The guy looks like a specimen, immune to injury, yet there it is. Is there any juicing scuttlebutt?…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:35 pm

        Well, first off – did you see Flavor’s comment about another SS making a dive yesterday during a play? He said that “Tulo would have exploded on impact” if he had done the same thing. LMAO. Sorry, had to mention that one . . . I wont get into the science of living and playing baseball at altitude, since I have explained this before in detail, but the Rockies are more prone to fatigue, injury, sleep apnea (only a slight decrease in oxygen will cause this), and significant performance swings (home vs. road trips and it’s different for the pitchers – who perform generally well on the road; and the hitters – who perform better at home).

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:11 pm

        Yeah, I did see that comment by BF, pretty funny. Was Helton injured a lot, too, in his earlier days? Maybe you’re right and that altitude thing is uncool for sports health at that high, repetitive level. Do the Nuggets or Avalanche have an inordinate number of injuries compared to the rest of their leagues?…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:22 pm

        No and for different reasons. In Basketball, the Nuggets have a cardio advantage, yet they aren’t able to take advantage of it for a couple of reasons. The main reason is that ALL basketball players are in excellent cardio condition. You can also substitute freely to compensate for the altitude effect. Regarding injuries, the basketball schedule is a grind, but not as bad as baseball with games almost every day. They have time to recuperate between games.

        For football, again it is an advantage, but it’s somewhat minimized by substitution. Frankly, I have no idea about the fatigue and injury factors for football players at altitude. In short, no one mentions it here (sports writers and fans) except for baseball. When we call the players “Sherpas” and the park Cape Coors, it’s for a reason. Baseball here is crazy and frankly, in my opinion – a failed experiment that they should shut down.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:30 pm

        Sheez, I didn’t even think of the Broncos. The AFC West is so off my radar. I don’t follow ’em much, but with all their turnover, I don’t see how the Raiduhs might win more than 6, at best, this season. Their Head Coach Dennis Whatzhizname seems to be in over his head. A comparison of him to Harbaugh is comical…

  26. blade3colorado said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    “Again, you win games, and more importantly, series, and everything else takes care of itself.”

    Before I forget . . . Great post Chi, especially the line above. Exactly!

  27. Rooster said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Hey, hey G’s fans – good to see you all still going at it here in BF’s own private “Splash” – just got back from camping out down the coast in Carlsbad, so missed the Sat & Sun games – looks like the Dodgers gave away Sat’s game with the 3 unearned – shoulda been a sweep.
    Anyways, congrats on the 2nd WS win last season – I really thought Giants were doomed after going down 0-2 to Cincy – hell of a run they put on after that.
    Obviously I got out of blogging a few years back, but when the Dodgers-Giants get together I still remember way back all those years ago when I came across all you nuts @ the Splash. Lucky for you guys BF took the best of the posters from there and brought ’em here – just been browsing back thru the weekend posts and you guys got a great spot here for talkin’ hardball.
    Just to answer your question BF – the one from a couple posts back about am I bothered about the Dodgers not winning a WS in so long? It’s been so long I’ve grown kinda used to it to tell you the truth. I still remember vividly where I was when Gibby hit that HR off Eck and limped around the bases – remember it like it was yesterday – also remember that that would have never happened if Scioscia hadn’t popped one out off Gooden and the Mets in the NLCS to keep that series going.
    Does it bother me that the Dodgers haven’t won a WS since then?
    I don’t really think much about it – I watch the games when I can – which isn’t nearly as much as I used to be able to when I first met you guys – and I still root for them to win, but I don’t put expectations on them to do so. I still read the box-scores every morning – check on how Loney’s doing over with the Rays (still hitting above .300 ! unfuckingbelievable) – yes I still get the Times delivered every morning – I’ll be doing that ’till the day I die – just love the old-school box-scores in the morning paper.
    So, yeah, I wouldn’t say it really bothers me all that much – If they don’t have a good enough team to make the playoffs, so be it – I’ll watch the MLB playoffs anyway, I love good baseball – and sure it would be great for the Dodgers to make the playoffs and win, but you have to play good baseball to get there – Dodgers have come close (Phillies had their number) recently but haven’t been able to close the deal.
    Giants 2 out of the last 3 – that’s gotta feel good.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:58 pm

      Rooster, weren’t you “Gloating” before, or do I have that wrong?…

  28. twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF

    2. Marco Scutaro (R) 2B

    3. Brandon Belt (L) 1B

    4. Buster Posey (R) C

    5. Pablo Sandoval (S) 3B

    6. Hunter Pence (R) RF

    7. Brandon Crawford (L) SS

    8. Andres Torres (S) LF

    9. Tim Lincecum (L) P

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2013 at 4:44 pm

      Wow, Pence down, Belt up in the LU. I don’t think Belt has ever hit 3rd. WTF not?
      And, Pence has just cratered at the plate, so WTF not just give him a day off? I believe he’s started every game…

      • twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2013 at 5:15 pm

        Belt is 1-4 in the 3 spot- he’s never started a game in the 3. Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why he’s hitting .190 in the 5, with a decent sample, 116 AB, .291 OBP.584 OPS.
        In the 6 he’s at .295 with a .366 OBP, 846 OPS. (441 ABs)

        Full line in the 6: 441 AB 35 doubles 1 triple 15 HR 60 RBI .295 BA .366 OBP .846 OPS 120 OPS+

  29. […] Rooster said, on July 8, 2013 at 3:31 pm (Edit) […]

  30. Flavor said, on July 8, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    new post

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