A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

A 16th Inning Thud

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 9, 2013

Gold stars for those who made it till the end of that game (and the last page of last night’s thread): Snarkk, Chi, Zumiee, Salty, Sportsdude, Xoot, Edd and MacDog….

Belt, 0-8 with 5 k’s. Pffffftttttttt….

And just in case you wanna sprinkle a lil’ extra sugar on your cereal there’s this: Jeff Francoeur, come on down!

Wow. I don’t have anything to say since I didn’t see the game. So I’ll just leave you with this video and pray that somewhere at that bar last night someone videotaped SanDawg singing this. If so, please forward ASAP (don’t sweat the chick my man, you live in San Diego):

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  1. blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 6:58 am

    Flav, I always thought the best way to wake up in the morning was with a hot woman giving you a blow job . . . Finding out that the Gmen lost an epic battle in extra innings is outside my Top 10 Wakie Wakie List.

  2. Alleykat said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:11 am

    Watching the Giants is like watching 2 turtles getting it on…

  3. Bozo said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:14 am

    Cintia Dicker.

  4. denniszu said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:46 am

    I made it till 2:20am… but wasn’t surprised when the morning came.
    I don’t even want to know how it went down…..
    It may be time to look for the Bible…

  5. willedav said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:47 am

    props to all who stayed, including fans (james and bro?)..I bailed after 13th when Gillespie grounded out. SF pen threw 8 shutout innings before losing it on unearned run. Belt, ugh. Lincecum brilliant all pitches working.
    Btw, I had mentioned Torres close up vision before, only because the same type of shit used to happen to me late in my softball career (20 yrs ago). Esp night games, I had trouble tracking it the closer ball got to the glove. Last night he was right there in time and in position to make the sliding grab, tho runner on 3b would have scored anyway. Giants burned again by the one bad inning defensively.
    I’d agree with Paul, Noonan (like a lot of the call ups) is overmatched at this level and doesn’t belong here. But re: the A’s, most of their better players on current roster were brought in by trade or FA–Colon, Balfour, crisp, lowrie, Reddick. Most of the position players like the Sogards of the world have sucked. they are rolling now though.

    • willedav said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:20 am

      last sentence should read “…position players brought up through farm system…” Moss played for red sox and Pirates before, Jaso came from Seattle. Donaldson was originally a cub and came to A’s in ’08 deal that involved Gaudin among others. Last year he hit .240 and had been back up C, before exploding this season. Beane’s farm system has been largely underwhelming for a long time for position players (save Cargo whom he dumped off in Holiday deal), esp on IF.

    • chipower9 said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:39 am

      He was right there, but didn’t even get leather on the ball. And it was more than one bad inning defensively…there was the Torres snafu, and then Crawford booting the ball for an unearned run in the 16th. Painful, to say the least.

  6. Nipper said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:10 am

    This house is underwater and sinking rapidly.

  7. chipower9 said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:44 am

    If Sunday’s game (losing to the Bums in the 9th) was a punch in the gut (and I was there to witness that in person, and then had a three hour ride home on the lead sled), then last night’s debacle was a kick in the nuts. Just when you think they have hit rock bottom…

    It was a very good game. Tim (as Willie mentions) had all his pitches working. He deserved better than a ND…fuck, he deserved the win. I really thought after four innings we would get to their bullpen, but Harvey hung-tough and gutted it through the 7th. I think he threw something like 120 pitches. Shit, Bochy even had Zito warming-up in the pen.

    Pablo just looks absolutely lost as fuck. Belt, hit the ball hard his first two ABs…but 0-8. The team as a whole just sucked-ass again with RISP.

    Screw the pitchfork and torches…I may be looking for a ledge sometime soon. Just kidding…lots of ball left, but they really must start winning games, and series, SOON.

  8. Flavor said, on July 9, 2013 at 9:44 am

    WillieD– I am hoping against hope that your theory on Torres is incorrect. If they Giants medicos haven’t ruled that out yet then it would signify total incompetence on their part. But your theory makes perfect sense, thanks for sharing it.

    • chipower9 said, on July 9, 2013 at 9:53 am

      Agree…you would think they would have gone through any possible issues (sight, drugs for his ADD situation, etc.). If not, yeah, they all need to be fired.

    • xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:36 am

      I thought vision might be the problem the first time I saw Torres get in position to make a play and then let the ball fly right by. Eyesight issues shut my baseball career down in HS, although I could still read, drive and spy sets on the horizon just fine.

    • snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:53 am

      I don’t know what it is, but Torres’ defense sucks balls. This is a trend, there’s no way to sugar coat it. He’s making me get fond memories of Freddles’ defensive skills. If they had anybody better, he wouldn’t be playing out there…

    • chipower9 said, on July 9, 2013 at 12:01 pm

      I agree. I brought up Torres (and Blanco) some time ago…basically saying that neither are starting OF material IMO. And I know that Twin has brought up that Blanco is a better defender than Pagan, but stats be damned…I am missing Crazy Horse right now. Not everything that a player contributes can be attributed to stats. I think he brought a lot more to the table than you get from Baseball Reference or any of the other stat houses.

      • snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 12:57 pm

        With you, Chi. I think the loss of Pagan was incalculable. Not stats alone can his loss be assessed. He brought an energy that is sorely missed…

  9. James said, on July 9, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Yes, we were there to witness all 35 strikeouts. And we helped keep the seagulls off of the field by clapping when prompted by the jumbotron, an unexpected duty. I hope all of you appreciated our effort.

    • chipower9 said, on July 9, 2013 at 9:52 am

      Wow…so you were one of the dozen left in the stands. Thanks for your efforts. What a brutal ass loss!

  10. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Yeah, watched til the bitter end. The pisser (as usual) was the wasted opportunities before the booted grounder by Crawfish.

    James, I saw that when they showed something on the big screen.

    I’m waiting for an Alfred Hitchcock night at the ballyard . . .

  11. snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:16 am

    And the big move IS — Jeff Frenchy. Hey, he’s cheap, he’s available, he won’t cost any prospects, he, uh, he’s not really very good…

  12. snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:24 am

    This non-scoring streak is just bizarre. Maybe Sabes was misquoted yesterday. He supposedly said this might be a “bad penny” year, but maybe he actually said “Brad Penny” year — large and lumbering…

  13. blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Well, the silver lining in my opinion is that the pitching is back – No one can really deny that. Now the bats and defense need to catch up.

    • snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:42 am

      Yes, pitching was fine last night. Pen was great after Tim, and Tim was very good, let down by defense again and minimal run support…

  14. blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Blanco 1fer8. Wow! Belt 0fer8. Double Wow!

    • blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:37 am

      Brandon Belt may have had his worst hitting game ever (or, rather non-hitting game). Per ESPN:


      • chipower9 said, on July 9, 2013 at 12:07 pm

        Pence 1 for 5.
        Panda 1 for 6.

        18 LOB.

        1-15 RISP.

        Blah de fucking blah blah. This trend is getting really fucking old.

        I keep saying there is no way they do not break out of this funk any day now. Well…I’m still waiting for “any day.”

    • snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 11:46 am

      Blanco is wearing down as a season goes along and he plays a lot. Just like last season. He’s not equipped to be an everyday player. My take on Belt is that for some reason he’s getting too selective now, he’s looking for perfect pitches, and the called strikes are piling up, frequently putting him behind in the count. Then, he’s got to swing at the pitcher’s pitch to make something happen…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 11:51 am

        Yeah, he had 5 SOs just last night. Unbelievable.

  15. snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Baggs on current online chat at CSNBA says management is not the only one “furious” at Pablo for his out of control weight and that he thinks Giants will trade him this offseason or let him go after his contract is done after next season. I’ve asked him who else is “furious”. And, I think he’ll get traded, they won’t let him go and get nothing for him…

    • snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 11:05 am

      Baggs hasn’t responded to my question, but to a similar one noted below, he won’t give details, but clearly is intimating not all is well in the clubhouse, and the players are pissed at Pablo. I’m thinking that part of this funk has to do with some stuff going on behind the scenes in the clubhouse, which our milquetoast media can’t or won’t report…
      So far you’ve told us there’s “dirty laundry” in the Giants’ clubhouse and that “more than management” is mad at Sandoval. Stop teasing us and spill the details. Are the players mad at Pablo too?
      38 Minutes Ago
      from http://www.csnbayarea.com

      Mike Murphy and his staff do a great job with the laundry. So do Matt Cain, Buster Posey, Dave Righetti, Bruce Bochy and the many, many professionals in that room who realize the importance of keeping a solid front.

      • xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 11:37 am

        As usual, Baggs is as far out in front as he can be and still past the guards at the clubhouse door.

      • WilcoJoe said, on July 9, 2013 at 6:24 pm

        Many here scoffed at my idea a couple weeks back that the Giants could be sellers at the deadline…Twin was correct in that the Giants don’t have much to offer. As surprised as I would be to see it happen, I would love to know what we could get for Panda…Panda in pinstripes anyone?

  16. PawlieKokonuts said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:48 am

    I stopped watching TV at 2 at end of 12 then took a peak via my laptop at the 13th, when we failed to score with two men on, if I recall. As with others, I winced at what smoke arising from the carnage I’d see this morning. Existential sigh.

  17. snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 10:49 am

    What does picking a guy off the scrapheap on the downside like Jeff Frenchy hitting near the Mendoza line say about your OFers at AAA? Channeling Pat the Bat seems like a longshot…

    • unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2013 at 11:36 am

      Well, Pat the Bat worked out pretty well in the end. As did Huff and Scoots,

      I get the OFer thing, but really, the team has a pretty good amount of homegrown talent. It’s hard to hit the draft every year. Shit, what’s the success rate for MLB drafts? 15%?

  18. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Ahhh. Nickelback. Taking the mantle of supremely overrated rock band from Canada away from Rush . . .

  19. xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Francoeur won’t cost a dime and might add some offense. I’d just as soon see him in LF for a while intead of Pill/Gillespie/Torres. Or Belt. Nady was just a blip last year, but he shook things up slightly, if only because the other side had to pay some attention to his bat.

    This year is starting to look more like 2009 than 2011. The Giants made some moves in 2009; some eventually panned out (Freddy S), some didn’t (GARko). They dumped the chumps and moved on. 2010 was a more extreme version of the same approach, but with fewer real failures. (Anyone remember Jose Guillen?) Sabean should grab what he can, to help this season but possibly to prepare for next, as well.

  20. snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Getting Francoeur from the dumpster dive is free. OK. But, you get what you pay for. Sabes is signaling now that he’s not going to do much at the deadline. He’s hoping one guy “might” get charged up from a change in scenerey, and then change the chemistry of the clubhouse morgue. Worth a shot since it costs nothing. I suppose he’ll play LF, tho’ as far as I know he’s mostly played RF in his career, with that gun arm he has. He might run into one once in a while, but seriously, we can’t expect this guy’s bat to ignite. He’s a career K artist. What he could do is spell Pence for a game or two. He needs to sit. 3 for his last 42. Brutal…

    • xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 12:28 pm

      Nady’d had a bit more experience in LF than Francoeur, but not much. And it’s true, Pence does need a break now and then. But Torrres need quite a few.

      Wonder where Buster will be tonight — 1B again, then a day game off?

      • blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 12:36 pm

        He will not play today, especially after 16 innings last night.

  21. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    If they pull Belt, even after his epic 0fer, and play Posey at 1st, I’ll be furious. Sit Pence.

  22. chipower9 said, on July 9, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    Even with the 0fer, I think Belt should bat 3rd again. It’s not like it is a foreign spot in the line-up for him…he hit there at UT, and I believe for most of his minor league ABs.

    • snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 1:57 pm

      Agreed, and the hand wringing should stop about Belt. He’s the 1bman. Play him this season, quit jacking him around with LHPs and so forth, and just go with him. There’s no alternative to him in the minors, and they’re not going to bring a 1bman in. He crapped in his hat last night, but Posey’s the only one hitting any better the last month. If Belt ends up backpedaling and hits .240 or something for the year, then they need to address it in the offseason — trade him out for whatever they can get, as long as they have a 1b plan. It looks like there will be a lot of re-tooling this coming offseason. Likely goners are Blanco, Torres, Quiroz, Miijares, Panda, Kontos, Zito, Tim, Rosario, and maybe Pence…

  23. xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    I didn’t suggest Posey at 1B tonight because I like to see him there. I’d rather see him rest tonight and then play every game to the break. Problem is, of course — he’s basically the offense. Maybe without him the others will respond to the pressure to produce, in a positive way. Maybe.

  24. blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    “Likely goners are Blanco, Torres, Quiroz, Miijares, Panda, Kontos, Zito, Tim, Rosario, and maybe Pence.”

    I have no problem with this list, unless the following happens:

    1. Pence stays, if he plays to his career averages for the 2nd half.

    2. Tim continues to play well and GETS REASONABLE about a future long term contract with the Giants.

    3. Panda apologizes to the front office, team, fans, and goes on a diet, where it is readily apparent he is serious about being a MLB player for the long haul.

    4. Get rid of the rest of this flotsam.

    These are the pitchers I would consider adding to the roster, either now or for next season:

    Francisco Rodriguez – He is closing now for the Brewers and doing a great job. Per ESPN, “In his 22 appearances, he has shown no reason for anyone to believe he can’t still close, or at least pitch at a high level in a late-inning role, meaning the Brewers got a valuable trade chip for practically nothing.”

    John Axford – He’s also available from the Brewers (who are sellers this season). Past 26 games: 8 holds, 0.40 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 22 K’s in 22 2/3 innings.

    Travis Wood – Wood hasn’t won since May 30, even though he’s made six straight quality starts. Despite just five wins overall, Wood has been a pleasant surprise, sporting a 2.69 ERA and 0.98 WHIP over 110.1 innings. Cubs indicate that he is available.

    Matt Garza – Cubs want to trade him as well. He is injury prone though (3 separate stints on the DL for last 3 seasons). Big red flag on the potential wear/tear to his arm due to an over reliance on his slider (23.4%).

    Steve Cishek – He has racked up 12 saves since June 8.

    Position players I will have to think about . . .

    • sandy said, on July 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm

      I’m sure Brian anxiously awaits your call. 😉

      • blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm

        Yo Sandy . . . How is the &^%$#@* Dodger fan emeritus? Seriously, I hope you are well. 🙂

  25. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    I’m not really addressing you either, Xoot, it’s just my frustration (and Snarkk’s) with Belt’s yo-yoing in and out of the lineup. I’ve been saying for a while that when they want to rest Posey by not catching, let him have the day off. Belt has proven to be able to hit LHers yet they still switch him out all the time.

  26. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    The shoe drops (per Zach Links):

    5:07pm: Major League Baseball is expected to suspend Ryan Braun, Alex Rodriguez, and as many as 20 players connected to the Biogenesis clinic sometime after next week’s All-Star break, several sources told T.J. Quinn and Mike Fish of ESPN.com. Commissioner Bud Selig’s office is considering 100-game bans for Braun and Rodriguez, the punishment for a second offense, despite neither player receiving a previous suspension for violating MLB drug rules.

    Suspensions appear to be a certainty for both players and the only issue in question is the length of time that they’ll be sidelined. One source said that the league’s argument would be that they, and possibly other players, committed multiple offenses by receiving PEDs from Tony Bosch’s clinic and lying about it.

    As Quinn explains on Twitter, suspensions are usually levied, appealed, and ruled upon by an arbitrator months later before becoming public, but MLB is allowed to announce suspensions publicly because case has been public. Players who appeal the forthcoming suspensions may continue playing until an arbitrator rules, however.

    Braun, who has repeatedly denied using PEDs, refused to answer questions during a recent meeting with the league office about his connection to Bosch, according to sources. A source said that A-Rod has not been interviewed, but a meeting is expected to take place this week.

    Late last month, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reported that suspensions were likely in the Biogenesis case. Nelson Cruz, Everth Cabrera, Jhonny Peralta, Jesus Montero, and Bartolo Colon were among the other players linked to Biogenesis in the initial report.

  27. blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Here are 3 players (all outfielders, with Choo and Ellsbury having CF experience, i.e., they can play any outfield position) we should consider in the off season. All will be free agents next year.

    Shin-Soo Choo – AVG R HR RBI SB
    .272 57 12 29 9

    The 30-year-old should command a deal close to 4 years, $52 million and quite possibly B.J. Upton money for a 5 year, $75.25 million contract based upon his consistent track record. Upton was 28 and the “bet” was that he would improve. To date, that is wasted money. With Choo, you know what you are getting.

    Jacoby Ellsbury – AVG R HR RBI SB
    .301 55 2 30 36

    The 29 year old CF is having a down year (for him), i.e., no power this season (32 HR in 2011). In short, he would be a bargain. It would still take over $65 million at 5 years to sign him.

    Nate McLouth – AVG R HR RBI SB
    .281 51 6 15 24

    I guestimate the 31 year old left fielder could be had for a three-year deal in the neighborhood of $30-36 million.

    • Bozo said, on July 9, 2013 at 3:55 pm

      The Sox may move Ellsbury this year.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 9, 2013 at 4:04 pm

        You’re right John . . . I heard the same thing that he is on the trading block. If our offense could show some life, it might give Sabes the incentive to add him. He basically would fill our “Pagan” role for the rest of the season.

  28. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Cool that Braun and Rodriguez are looking at 100 game suspensions.

    • Flavor said, on July 9, 2013 at 6:33 pm

      beyond cool. I LOVE it.

      • xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 6:54 pm

        20 others are reported to be on the list. It’s a strange investigation. mlb filed a lawsuit in Fla. just to obtain discovery. The defendants cooperated. The union hasn’t made a peep. Most labor lawyers I know are asking, wtf isn’t that stuff subject to the CBA grievance procedures? Probably is. So, apparently, the union’s complicit in the litigation blitzkrieg. It’ll be interesting to see the full list of players they’re after.

      • Flavor said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:00 pm

        don’t you think there will be a long appeals process?

      • xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:07 pm

        No. There’s nothing going on in the litigation except discovery — mlb’s getting all the clinic’s documents, and cooperation. If the union doesn’t intervene and try to shut it down, there’s nothing to appeal. mlb seems to be ready to suspend these players by fiat. Strange thing.

      • xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:11 pm

        Here’s what one alleged expert thinks. http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-ends-do-not-justify-means-in-mlbs.html

      • Flavor said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:11 pm

        thanks. This is fascinating.

      • xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:16 pm

        The players probably do have the right to appeal their suspensions, but I don’t know how long that process will drag things out. It’ll be amazing to see two dozen players appealing simultaneously.

  29. Bozo said, on July 9, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    So no one wanted to go with Cintia Dicker to take their mind off of last night’s game, OK. How about some Bluegrass? “It takes a worried man to sing a worried song”, nope? What about changing the lyrics? “It takes a Giant’s fan to sing, Bye Bye Baby”, Hmm… how about, it takes a drunken sot to sit through sixteen innings of rot? Sorry still working on it.

  30. sandy said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Where’s the line up? Twinfan?

    Tanaka in left? That warrants a new thread.

    • Flavor said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:01 pm

      He couldn’t throw from 2nd to 1st so I’m kinda stoked to see what happens when he has to hit the cutoff man from the warning track……..

  31. Flavor said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    G. Blanco
    K. Tanaka
    M. Scutaro
    P. Sandoval
    H. Pence
    B. Belt
    B. Crawford
    G. Quiroz
    B. Zito

    Is this the worst LU we’ve fielded since 2008?

    I’m gonna set the O/U of runs we score at 1.5 tonight……

  32. Bozo said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Tanaka was a Hamfighter, so that’s a plus. But the best is when you click on his name on the baseball press line-up you get Barry Bonds stats. Now that would be a huge plus.


  33. xoot said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Tanaka’s the man!

  34. James said, on July 9, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Now that is a smile to make you feel a little joy.

  35. Flavor said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    A weird wild game in Detroit. Verlander pitched and the White Sox banged out 23 hits in the game.
    Rios with 6 hits.
    Nolasco shutting down AZ in the 5th 2-0. Yeah, we couldn’t have used him. What most aren’t crediting is that he was playing for the freaking Marlins and having a very good year–probably his best year ever. Now he’s in LA playing for a team that has fans, energy, a LU, etc…He could win 10 games from here on out.

    • zumiee said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:37 pm

      B’bye for Arizona. They had a nice little half a season.

  36. PawlieKokonuts said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    I put up a new thread. Or thought I did. I’ll see if I can find it in cyberspace.

  37. Bozo said, on July 9, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    I know I shouldn’t wish for any more Mets sniffing around the Dish, but Quiroz kinda looks like a Mack truck back there. I doubt the Giants have encouraged the Qman into thinking swipe tag so I’m thinking a collision play with him might be entertaining.

  38. snarkk said, on July 9, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    If Bartolo Colon gets suspended again, I wonder if Susan Slusser will mention it in her fawning reports of his amazing feats at the age of 40…

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