A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Yasiel Puig: MVP? Lol!

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on August 18, 2013

Sadly, there is talk that Puig will get serious consideration for NL MVP. To that I say, “hogwash.” I’m not sure if Puig is even MVP on his own team. As much as I hate to admit it, Eye Goggle Boy has had a spectacular year. But he’s been injured and has played in even less games than Puig (58 < 65).

To even have this debate you have to acknowledge that MVP isn’t just about identifying the best offensive player. It also has to be about picking the player who is most valuable to a team in contention. WAR does a decent enough job of breaking that down and HanLoser has Puig beat 3.8 > 3.0. If you say, “yeah, but the Dodgers didn’t start winning until Puig got here!” you would have to be ignoring the fact that HanPussy returned from injury at the same time Puig got called up (June 3rd). So giving Puig credit for igniting this unfortunate run for the Dodgers is not accurate.

Personally, I think the NL MVP, if we were crowning that guy today, should be either Andrew McCutchen or Paul Goldschmidt. Both are the anchors for their teams, both teams are in contention (although AZ is fading) and both players actually, you know, played all season (unlike Puig or Eye Goggle Head who have half the at bats of McCutch or Goldshit). I would throw Carlos Gomez into the discussion but he refuses to stop crashing into outfield walls. Also, Milwaukee sucks and if you’re going to win MVP and play on a bad team your stats have to be absurdly better than stand-out players on good teams (at least, in my opinion).

Admittedly, the NL MVP race is a little light this year. It’s probably the reason that we are hearing this “Puig for MVP” nonsense. I’m hoping he comes in second place and then strikes out in all his playoff at bats (a distinct possibility).

62 Responses

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  1. PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:55 am

    I like me my Andrew McCutchen. BREAKING: Miguel Tejada suspended 105 games. Adderall.

    • Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:18 am

      that broke yesterday, kokonuts. Apparently, the dope had a prescription but let it lapse. #idiot.

  2. blade3colorado said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:07 am

    I have “GoldMember” on my FL team, so I have been following him all year and I think he deserves consideration. I love how McCutchen goes about his business and I think he is worthy of the award.

    Joey Votto is arguably the best hitter in the National League, but in my mind, the other two players (Goldie and McCutch) will trump him.

    I would have given Tulo consideration earlier this season, but as usual the injury prone SS got hurt again this year. Equally important, he is batting just .222 (22-for-99) since returning from the DL on July 11. His fielding has been inconsistent as well. Next.

    No Dodger position player is worthy of being discussed for the MVP this year. This isn’t because I dislike Dodgers vehemently, but because I think they are all a bunch of prima donnas and/or on the DL too much.

  3. Alleykat said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:52 am

    As much as a despise the Dodgers and no pitcher should be considered over a “EVERDAY POSTION PLAYER..Clayton Kershaw could be in the hunt.
    Joey Votto though his RBI total is low (57?) He is up near the top in alot of catergorys ,runs,walks,OBP,SLG,Avg, highest line-drive pct.
    My choice if he lights it up and they pass Cards or Pirates.
    McCutchen and Goldfinger will split the writers votes and lose out.
    Longshots I like with no chance..Freeman & Sequra
    ..

    • zumiee said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:55 am

      I would think it’s more likely the Dodger players would split the vote, and McCutcheon gets it.
      Timmy got one of his CYs because two Cardinal pitchers split the vote.

      • blade3colorado said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:57 am

        Agree Zum – players on different teams never split the vote.

  4. zumiee said, on August 18, 2013 at 10:20 am

    The Dodgers are hitting on all cylinders at the moment. The Dodger fans are finally seeing what Juan Uribe can contribute. I thought Uribe was done, but he’s a comeback player of the year candidate.
    I don’t think it’s just wishful thinking that the Dodgers could fall apart in the playoffs. Their pitching has been lights-out lately, but can it continue? What if Han-Ram has a cold playoff series? Puig is on the journey back to Earth. That might just be the wear and tear of the season. And it seemed like he was doing more damage with the outside pitches earlier in the season. Is he trying to pull the ball too much now? Seems like the kind of thing a young power hitter would slide into.

  5. Macdog said, on August 18, 2013 at 10:23 am

    This Marlins pitcher has thrown more to 1st than to home. And Pence just showed why.

  6. Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Twin is partying with his wife (her bday) and their mutual friend today so he’ll be focused on all that. He’s having some trouble with his hands but I’m sure he’ll make today a great success. For the record, he votes McCutchen for MVP

  7. Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Miggy has now hit 13 hr’s in his last 8 games–Bondsian

  8. PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 11:03 am

    ESPN’s Research Notes: “Hunter Pence’s first-inning home run was calculated at 459 feet, tied for the longest at Marlins Park this year (Juan Francisco on April 10). It’s also tied for the second-longest home run ever hit at Marlins Park (Giancarlo Stanton, 462 feet on May 21, 2012).” (At least this really is BREAKING news.)

  9. PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Do the Marlins play “Chances Are” for J. Mathis’s walkup music?

  10. twinfan1 said, on August 18, 2013 at 11:51 am

    chi, i did the ‘outline’ you requested for tonight’s dinner. it’s on my blog.
    enjoy the game, guys.

  11. snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 11:52 am

    I dislike the Chavez Latriners as much as any, but I have to hand it to ’em. You can’t win 42 out of 50 without playing some serious ball. That matches a record set in the 40s by some WWII era Cardinal team, nobody better over a 50 game stretch since. That’s .804 ball, which is about as crazy good as it gets. They might, might blow their wad and run into the playoffs out of steam. I’m not counting on that. The ’84 Tigers were outstanding the entire year including a steamroll through the playoffs and WS. LA started out poorly, but they were hurt. They’re not hurt the last 50, and the starting pitching looks like it is going to last. Anytime you go into a playoff series with Kershaw, you’ve got a leg up…

  12. Macdog said, on August 18, 2013 at 11:59 am

    BREAKING: The Phillie scored a run for Ryne Sandberg!

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 12:22 pm

      I, um, like the collective “Phillie,” as The Jazz or — help me — what others? But such a snooty name won’t go over on Broad Street.

  13. snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Why in mid-August is Posey not playing 2 games out of 3 with the Marlins? Is he hurt? Is his ankle a problem? Is he gassed already at age 26? WTF? I don’t think Bengielena ever missed 2 out of 3 games by manager decision, and he wasn’t exactly in great shape. For $167 million, this seems weird to me, and nobody seems to think much about it…

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 12:17 pm

      Bochy says he wants to rest him before the long flight and the next 16 days of games without a break.

      • snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 12:23 pm

        If that’s it, I call BS. He’s the MVP, fergawdsakes. I call his ankle has problems, and they’re not saying anything…

  14. snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    And, as I post that, Hector botches it, and the go ahead runner scores. Hector has a long way to go on defense. Earlier he had catcher’s interference, and that ultimately resulted in a run…

  15. eddacker said, on August 18, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    despite having the gmen play so off their game this season I have to see the dogers doing well.
    torture

  16. PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Magnus, NYT has a big story on Russell Baze, “the winningest jockey in American history. Yet his name is familiar to only the most avid followers of horse racing.” A full-page, dramatic photo of him on a horse graces the opening of the sports section in one of the most stunning graphic displays in sports journalism I’ve ever seen. Want me to snag it from the coffee shop and send it to you?

    • blade3colorado said, on August 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm

      Pawlie, yes – grab it (he was at the gym with me and I think he might be running errands).

      Surprised about them saying that Russell Baze is “familiar to only the most avid followers of horse racing” for two reasons: 1. I have heard of him and I know jack about horse racing; and, 2. Perhaps, the reason I am familiar with him – he is practically a legend in the bay area (albeit, ask Flav about him with regard to his performance, since he follows the races. SanDawg too should pipe in).

    • Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 3:24 pm

      Pawlie– it’s cool, I’m not that interested in that stuff. And while I respect Russell The Muscle (that’s what they call him because of how strong he is (or was) with his rides in the stretch) I’m not a huge fan. Most horse players aren’t and that’s really got nothing to do with Baze, he’s a totally stand up guy. The reason is, he gets hammered at the windows every time he gets on a horse–he wins at a fantastic rate (28-32% depending on the meet) but that means 70% of the time or so he’s failing as a short priced favorite.
      And when he wins the payout is usually low because he’s almost always on the favorite in NorCal.
      But I respect the hell out of Russell and, as I recall, his daughters are H-O-T

  17. snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Torres. His so-called defense is the opposition’s best friend. Sheezus. That run likely costs us the game. I don’t see a good reason why this guy is around. Get Peguero up…

    • Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm

      I heard that one on the radio, sounded bad (at least the way Miller described it)

      • snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 4:26 pm

        You can look on the replay at mlb.com, if interested. He couldn’t make up his mind to go for it or play it on the bounce, so he does neither — he crow hops twice with a bad angle then decides to make a dive at the last second and it hits him in the chest after hitting the ground, then skips way into LF, away from Blanco backing up. Torres didn’t even get a glove on it. If he just takes it on a bounce, and fires into third, the runner at second doesn’t try to advance to third. But, the runner sees the ball bouncing into never never land in LF now, so he continues on from second to home. The screwup cost the winning run. Lurie trashed Torres for it after the game, as he should have. How many more times do we have to put up with his bullshit defense? Not much longer, hopefully…

  18. snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Stumblin’, bumblin’ loss.
    Unfortunately, all too common this year. At least they battled, showed offense, and made it a game…

  19. Rooster said, on August 18, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    I haven’t heard much at all, if any, that I can remember of Puig getting serious consideration for MVP. I don’t see that happening at all. Rookie of the Year, MAYBE, but not MVP.

  20. SanDawg said, on August 18, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    I went to the Padre game today. Very entertaining, back and forth game with some nice plays by both sides in the outfield and then a walk-off home by Will Venable to end it. He’s got 17 bombs now. I’m sure you fantasy dudes are hip to that, but that number snuck up on me.
    @Blade-I’m a pretty low level horse player, but yes, I know Russell Baze. Didn’t know he was in the running for winningest jockey of all time.
    Glad to see Pence, Panda, Blanco all have multiple hit games. Hector as well. I like Hector’s bat and still think he could be a good asset for us down the road.
    I’m gonna go make a salad and watch Meet The Press on TIVO, but I’ll pass along a trivia question I heard at the game today.
    This player was the first player in the modern era to wear a moustache and also the first black player to share a room on the road with a white player. Can you name him?

    • Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 6:34 pm

      that’s fairly impossible for me to answer, I keep only loose awareness of the beginning of the modern era. How about a Freddy Patek trivia Q or something else from the 70’s?

  21. SanDawg said, on August 18, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    …according to a guy in our group at the game, the answer is Reggie Jackson.
    C’mon Flav, you can’t get more 70’s than The Superduperstar!

  22. Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    I just watched the Torres bumblefuck. I mean, wow. Maybe because he had just been inserted into the game on a double switch explains at least a piece of this but man, horrible, horrible……..
    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_08_18_sfnmlb_miamlb_1&mode=video

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 7:15 pm

      I watched it four times, maybe five. 1. I think he lost it for a second in the lights or sun or whatever they have down in that stadium. 2. I am fairly certain he either slipped for a split-second or had a hitch like a hamstring pull. 3. He was probably a fraction of a second late in picking it up. [Vision problem? Previously brought up here.] 4. It would have been a very decent catch if he had made it. Should 80% of all MLB center fielders have caught it? Perhaps. I still stand by my guy Torres.

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 7:26 pm

        It was do or die. An outfielder has a tenth of a second to go for it or not. It didn’t work. It could have. It has before. Easy to critique it after the fact. One of the pleasures of sitting in the outfield bleachers is to gain a greater respect for what all MLB outfielders do. There’s a lot of ground to cover. I’ve played outfield. Not very well.

  23. PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    I’m reading that AZ has 27 wins in their last AB, by far the most in MLB. And 36 comeback wins (ranked 2nd). Those numbers say, “Be at least a little nervous, L.A.”

  24. Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    What am I missing I thought the 60 min arat story was on tonight.

    • SanDawg said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:02 pm

      Yeah, your bum steer had me tuning in. As is usually the case, I was glad I watched anyway.
      Pawlie–I think your take on the Torres play is dead on. He’s had many bad moments in the field this year–I wouldn’t rank that one as one of his worst. Funny you mention bleachers, as I was in Row 1 today in right center on a day where both CFs and RFs had some tough chances. I heard the kid Lagares could pick it, and he did make a nice play on a gapper to the track.
      I’ve always loved watching the interaction between the outfielders when I have a seat like that. Watch ’em warm each other up each inning, see if they congratulate the other guy on a nice play, give each other a knowing dude nod after a rough play, signal the outs to one another etc… At one point the Pads did a double switch and Venable (playing CF) warmed up the new left fielder. When they were done, there wasn’t the usual person stationed by the foul line to receive the warm up ball from Venable. He turned around and did a long, underhand toss. I thought he was throwing it to someone in the stands. Turns out, he was throwing it to someone in the bullpen. He left the toss short though, and it was going to hit high on the wall and come back on the playing field. Whoever the guy on the receiving end was, jumped up from the bullpen side, reached over at the apex of his jump, and snagged the ball before it hit the wall. Denorfia was standing right there and both he and Venable gave the guy a few hearty glove-claps. It was pretty impressive display of athleticism and hand-eye by that masked man.
      Just one of those funny little bits you only catch when you attend a game in person.

  25. Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Pawlie I liked your take on the Torres fuck up but I personally disagree with it. He was hesitating the way a guy like Trout (and others) don’t do. Especially at that point in the game. As I said, it might have been because he had just come into the gm on a double switch.
    But to me, that was a reaction of an outfielder that was a reaction from the most average of outfielders. He tried to get there. As he got near he realized he overestimated his chance of getting there. Then, instead of making a quick decision to minimize damage (which a skilled major league OF should be able to do) he panicked and fucked the entire play (and the game) up.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:02 pm

      I’m willing to concede your point and Snarkk’s. I am. I especially am willing to agree on your 2nd paragraph, above. NEVERTHELESS, I maintain it was not that cut-and-dried in my view. More accurately, yes, he could have made a quick decision to minimize the damage but was COMMITTED. You could reliably argue that ego got in the way. Or foolhardy courage. Or a misunderstanding of your own skills and capacities. At any rate, it’s a split-second call and you can say he made the wrong call, a call only a third-rate OFer would make. I concede all that. I think all outfielders suffer that fate sometime. All of them. When it works, as it has very often for Gregor Blanco, including twice in Game 1 of the WS that I saw in person from the bleachers, you’re a hero. when it doesn’t work, you always look bad. Unfortunately, from what I discern from those who see more games than I do, it has not worked too often for Andres Torres in 2013.

      • Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:28 pm

        well, he’s older now and i don’t doubt his effort for a second. i don’t think he’s the brightest bulb in the clubhouse though. And it wouldn’t be a huge surprise that he was trying to make a play his body once made a couple of years ago only to realize, at the last second, that his body couldn’t quite do that spectacular play he was once able to do. And frankly, as I’m typing this, that’s really got nothing to do with intelligence. That’s just a dude holding on to what he thought he was able to do longer than he was actually able to do it…….
        Ali did that, too…..
        Trout will do it some day…..

  26. SanDawg said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    The RF bleachers at Petco are a trip. There is a guy out there in a friar outfit who calls himself “The Dancing Friar.” He is not an officially sanctioned team mascot, just a guy who gets dressed up and hangs out in the standing room area behind where I was sitting today. He has a standard set of dances and chants etc that he runs through most every game for several years now. I find myself laughing at him more than with him, but at any rate, he does lend some extra entertainment value to the game. For example, they play “Girls” by Beastie Boys during guess the attendance and he has this bit he does where he struts around to the xylophone intro the whole time. Its ridiculous, I’m embarrassed for him, but its making me laugh again just typing this. (By the way, I used to kill the room at little kid birthday parties when I would play that “Girls” riff on one of those Fisher-Price xylophones every toddler has. It would sound damn near indentical to the actual song)

    • Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:21 pm

      I’m hoping that one day you have the presence of mind to video the dancing dude and send it to me. PLEASE…..Although if I’m ranking videos I want you to send me, this future dancing dude vid is a distant second to you singing “Rockstar” koraoke in a bar just before that chick and you bid adieu……

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:32 pm

      If you are bringing these talents to Orange Sombrero Night, a splendid time is assured for all.

  27. SanDawg said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    So it must be a usual bit for the Dancing Friar to do a welcome chant for each Padre in the field during the top of the 1st. He and his followers launched right in and Denorfia (RF) quickly gave them a wave. I thought it was just a RF thing, but then they moved on to Venable and he also acknowledged them. Forsythe was playing LF and I got distracted and never saw if he responded. Then I was amazed when they moved on the infield and Alonso, then Gyorko and even the guys at SS and 3rd gave a wave. It was maybe 5-7 guys chanting–and not real loud, but damn if all those guys didn’t hear it and respond. Then they started chanting Hundley’s name and I’ll be a son-of-a-bitch if he didn’t stick out his throwing hand between pitches while “in the squat” (insert annoying Krukow voice). I was blown away by the whole thing.
    FYI–both Hundley and Gyorko look to me to be dead-pull right hand hitters. Sabes—if you’re out there somewhere, file that away for future reference. They look to me like great fits for ATT.

    • Flavor said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:30 pm

      hey, we are tightening up Flapalooza 3.0, what day are you coming in?

  28. PawlieKokonuts said, on August 18, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    xoot,
    All due respect — as TV mobsters say — but the McCann piece in SI that you linked us to didn’t do much for me. I agree with the comment by “woocane” below it. I stand by my assertion that the full suspension will not be upheld. (Mind you, I am not commenting either way on whether A-Rod did “it.”) I almost don’t care. I do care about due process and think he may have gotten short-changed on that. SPEAKING OF DUE PROCESS, the current issue of The New Yorker has an article on civil asset forfeiture in America. Holy mackerel! You wouldn’t believe what “they” can do to you without even charging you with a crime. Astounding. I devoured that issue on vacation. It’s a great mystery to me: does The New Yorker simply have some great issues cover-to-cover? Or did I make a virtue of necessity because it was the only copy I brought with me???

    • xoot said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:42 pm

      The arbitration issues are a bit murky, Pawlie. Both the JDA (Joint Drug Agreement) and the CBA (Collective Bargaining A) are in play, but it’s not clear to what extent. Things are further complicated by the union’s apparent cooperation in (or, at least, deference to) the Biogenesis litigation and investigation.

      The arbitrator (or arbitration panel, if either side requests a panel) is bound to follow the contracts. That’s the extent to which “due process” factors in. The contracts can determine due fucking process, thank you.

    • xoot said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm

      Oh, and I read that piece in the New Yorker the other day while I was soothing my knees on the elliptical aerobic machine. Very frightening, for people who can’t afford lawyers.

      • xoot said, on August 18, 2013 at 10:16 pm

        And, all due respect, crying due process don’t mean much. The ARat case is about bidness, in a very complex and expensive way. I don’t much care for bidness, in any way. Nor can I stomach abuses of due process that screw over powerless poor people. But the failure to distinguish the differences between the rich and the poor, and to cry due proces generally, smacks of weak minded weak ass liberalism.

  29. snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    I’m not buying the Torres blinded by the lights anymore. He can’t be blinded by lights wherever he plays. BF is onto something at his 8:28. He’s lost speed, but he hasn’t compensated. You look at this replay, he decides too late whether to dive or play on the hop. So, he ends up diving at the last second after an indecision crow hopped bad angle and doesn’t even glove the ball. An OFer has to realize the situation BEFORE the play. 8th inning, tie game, you either must be sure you dive and make the play on a liner, else you play it on the bounce and fire into 3rd so that you keep the runner on first from going to third. Because if you fukup the dive play, the runner can score the likely winning run. A runner on 2nd with one out and batters facing your pen is far better than the winning run scored. Only, the worst case scenario happened. No excuses…

    • SanDawg said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:17 pm

      I don’t know about the lights excuse, but I do agree with Pawlie’s assertion that he lost his footing for a split second just as the ball got there and that compounded everything. He’s had a few plays this year where my reaction was that he went away from the obvious, logical choice on how to play the ball and fucked it up bigtime. To me, this play doesn’t fit an that category. It was a tough call on how to play it and then he slipped while being indecisive.
      Good Lord, we’re chewing this thing to death. I hate to see what the blog would have looked like if we were in the race and he blew that play.

      • snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 9:36 pm

        Dawg, we or I wouldn’t be chewing it to death if it were the first time this happened. This is the umpteenth time, and most have been costly, this time in Torres’ supposed CF comfort zone. Torres won’t be here next season, to be sure. Blanco, maybe as a 5th OFer. But, the LF situation has to be plugged with a real MLB quality LFer, no more platooning OF positions with two guys who both are not major league quality, everyday OFers. Assuming CF is patrolled by a healthy Pagan. Looking forward to the Rsox and Pirates games. I hope we give them some quality opposition…

  30. unca_chuck said, on August 18, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    Yikes. Just saw the replay. Stagger or no, he fucked it up royally. Either sell out or play the hop. The pisser is, if he whiffs, a la the play the Marlin CF did the other day, Blanco was there to back it up. As it was he goalied it into never never land. Much worse than it sounded on the radio.

  31. snarkk said, on August 18, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    I’m heading to the Pirates game this Saturday…


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