A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Race for the PC is in High Gear!

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 5, 2013

I’m actually really looking forward to the A’s game tonight. Huh. I don’t think I’ve ever said those words before. Anyway, Sonny Gray vs Verlander is a match up I’d pay to watch. Of course, it’s free on tv so that won’t be happening. I’d really like to see David Price shove a box of the Colonel’s best fried chicken down Lackey’s throat–I don’t like that guy. If I were a betting man I’d take the under in both of those games…..

Regarding the PC, you’re on your own figuring out who’s in the lead. I can’t make sense of the mess I posted in the last thread. I’ll clean it up for sure for the NLCS and the ALCS.

ps– A-ROID is an idiot. There’s just no other way to put it….

71 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. unca_chuck said, on October 5, 2013 at 8:31 am

    I would dig the turntable, Twin. Didn’t see the need to post about it, though.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:43 am

      I was just trying to get an idea of the interest level. I’ll post on the prizes again after the division series are over. I’ll leave the USB turntable as the second place prize.

  2. blade3colorado said, on October 5, 2013 at 8:59 am

    The A’s struck out 16 times in all, a franchise record in a postseason game. That’s not going to get them very far in the postseason. Only the 1st game, but If Gray, et. al., don’t even the series tonight against Verlander, it’s doubtful they’ll do better when they return to Detroit.

    • Alleykat said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:30 am

      Yeah Im with you on that Blade.
      16 K’s is crazy for a team that usually shows a better eye at plate.Scherzer was on his game though,and my pick easily to win the Cy,so I will give them this one as only Cespedes.figured him out with a triple and got stranded,and the “Bomb” that I felt would of turned it back around,but Detroit’s BP shut them down cold with K’s as well.
      Like BF said….Yeah I would pay to go see this matchup,Verlander vs Gray!!
      Sonny Gray has awesome stuff,just hope he can control his emotions in his 1st playoff start.If so he will battle Verlander pitch for pitch.Critical game for A’s,cant go back to Motown down 2.

  3. twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 10:24 am

    There’s no cooler baseball sight than a home run into the second deck, better yet the third deck. One without a tarp, that is. Seriously, even mccovey cove can’t beat a towering blast into a sea of *fans*. forget fenway, wrigley, the old yankee stadium, tiger stadium was the best.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 11:06 am

      see the two light towers above left field? it was about there, maybe a little left of the left tower,that killebrew hit a ball completely out of tiger stadium. he was the first to ever do that. Harmon was a soft spoken, kind man. Here’s a video at a tribute for Harmon after he passed away. a hobbled, 75 years old ‘mudcat’ grant sang a moving rendition of ‘what a wonderful world’, accompanied on guitar by tony oliva’s son. mudcat really was a fine singer in his younger years. he’s lost a little but it’s a very moving tribute to his old friend…

  4. blade3colorado said, on October 5, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Tony Oliva could do no wrong back in the day . . . Along with Mays, he was probably my non-Giants favorite player in the 1960s. Dude could rake and also had some pop, as well as speed. He played his entire career with the Twins and I still think he should be in the HOF (5 top 10 finishes in the MVP, including 3 top 4 finishes; ROY, 8 AS, GG). Two bum knees slowed him down though in the latter part of his career (he’s replaced both). Still alive too . . . Great column about Tony by Patrick Reusse.


    • blade3colorado said, on October 5, 2013 at 11:55 am

      Thanks for sharing about Harmon . . . Another favorite player.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 12:39 pm

      steve- tony hit me in the nose with a ball once- seriously. it was the day that billly martin arranged to let me shag balls with the guys before their game with the yankees in new york. before they went to the outfield, the players would play pepper or just play catch by the dugout. i was standing around thinking i was not part of that. then i turned halfway around, and tony threw me a pretty good fastball. didn’t break my nose, no blood, just hurt like hell. he sort of giggled, not mean-like, he was embarassed for me. he did trot out with me- to right field in yankee stadium!!! it was unbelievably awesome. i did catch one fungo, the only one hit to me. then i got out of dodge and just soaked it all in from the rf line. i was still thinking of that throw that hit me and mortified that *pretty girls* would be laughing at me from the stands if i muffed a flyball 😦
      that was ’65, the year they played the dodgers in the world series. that year would turn out to be perhaps *the* seminal year in my 66 year stay here. there were a few of the guys who are still dear to me- martin, then a coach, most of all. killebrew, jim kaat, zoilo versalles, jim merritt..
      you’re right about oliva- before he began to have knee trouble he was a *real* 5-tool guy. and so graceful. then when his career was near it’s end, it hurt to even watch him run, his knees were turned inward and it was a wonder he could even walk. i see from the piece by reusse that he now has 2 artificial knees. lots of memories for me thinking of those days decades ago. good piece by reusse, btw. good sportswriter.,.

      • blade3colorado said, on October 5, 2013 at 1:32 pm

        Awesome story Twin. Did the catch out in right field occur before a game between the Twins and the Yanks? Sounds like it, if fans (“pretty girls”) were out there. Yeah, I would have been nervous out there too. No doubt.

        Rod Carew was Tony’s room mate on the road in the later part of his career and Rod confirmed how much pain Tony was in,”Late at night, I would hear Tony moaning and groaning . . . He would get up a number of times during the night to ice his knees, not being able to sleep due to his knees causing him so much pain.” Tony was an excellent hitter in a “pitchers era,” one year being only one of three players to hit over .300. Oliva also was elected to the All-Star game his first eight seasons, surpassing Joe DiMaggio’s previous record of six. I hope this “Senior Committee” or whatever they call themselves elect Tony one of these years. He truly deserves it in my opinion.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 1:55 pm

        I won’t go into the whole story, i’ve bored folks with it too many times already. in short, my dad arranged for me to take a road trip with the twins in ’65. detroit/cleveland/new york. billy martin took a liking to me and set up the deal for me to join the players for the fungo session. i wore one of frank quilici’s uniforms. sam mele was the manager then and was less than thrilled about the whole thing, but billy pretty much did what he wanted. not in defiance, he’d just talk mele into it. sam was the polar opposite of martin- an easy going, mellow kind of man.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 2:12 pm

        to your question- yes, it was before a twins/yankee game. i don’t remember the date of the game, it was either the 10th,11th, or 12th of august. what’s weird is that i’ve always remembered the road trip as starting in detroit and ending in ny, actually it was the opposite.

  5. twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    well, nice talking to you, steve…
    watching the boston/tampa game. after loney’s 2 run double, i started thinking about 1st basemen.. the slugging first baseman is the stereotype, the mcgwire’s, pujols, fielder those guys. but there have been many of a different type- the stylish defensive specialists- keith hernandez, snow, wes parker, olerud, loney, and many more. farther back is my favorite- the ozzie smith of first sackers-vic power. vic was truly a magician in the field and had some hot dog in him as well. real name- Victor Felipe Pellot Pove.
    we’re still not sure if belt is going to be a 25-30 hr guy here but if he cuts down on his k’s, and gets into the .290-.300 ba range with 18-20 dingers, gg defense, i’d be fine with that. or he still has a chance to be the even rarer commodity- the slick fielding slugger- gil hogdes, mattingly in the prime of his career, dare i say-the ‘thrill’- but will wasn’t really a slugger of the stereotypical type- for most of his career he was a 15 hr type, .300 hitter- and a very underrated ( by some) defender. raise your hand if you’d take will’s numbers from belt…

    • blade3colorado said, on October 5, 2013 at 4:32 pm

      Running errands (getting ready for a trip to Prescott, Arizona on Tuesday). Not too many Flappers around today. Probably watching the college games. Me? I am going to watch another couple of episodes of Breaking Bad. Yes, I am addicted. I will probably finish season 2 NLT Monday. Ha. Anywho, you enjoy your day as well Twin. Question regarding Billy Martin – did he ever share any personal stuff with you, e.g., being traded from the Yankees, his time in New York with Mickey and Whitey, etc.? I would imagine because you were so young back then, most of what you shared were observations of him and surface stuff (if only because he was an adult and you were a teen). Did you ever see him lose his temper? Just wondering . . . thanks.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 6:11 pm

        steve-billy didn’t talk much about his yankee days- although at the ‘golden bowl’ restaurant in cleveland i was at his table for dinner and he got pretty sloshed and did talk about his buddies- ford and mantle. you know, mantle and billy had the big reps as drinkers but ford was a heavy, heavy drinker- he missed starts after nights of drinking. but mostly i remember not stories, but how nice he was to me. on the plane to ny, one of the ‘stews’ was getting hit on by jim merritt. a little later she sat down in a seat next to me, then got up and was talking to billy and my dad. merritt was in the seat in front of me. after the stewardess finished talking with martin, she came back and sat next to me again, then merritt stood up and leaned over his seat back and asked the stew ‘where are we going tonight, babe?’ she turned to me and said ‘where *are* we going, michael’?
        i think i came to somewhere over pennsylvania πŸ˜‰ i’m almost certain that billy arranged that, just as he did the fungo shagging in ny. my dad gave me 100 bucks for the night. we stayed for a few innings of the game, then went to eddie condon’s jazz club, somwhere for corned beef sandwiches ( even then 100 bucks didn’t go too far in nyc. ) had a couple drinks ( you could drink at 18 in ny), and ended up on her stoop. didn’t get invited in but we smooched for awhile on the stoop. i was completely out of my gourd and asked her to marry me !!!! she was quite nice and said ‘maybe one day’. then i left her at her door and never saw her again. pretty much a great night…
        billy was a carouser back then and later in life he spun totally out of control with with his drinking. my goodness, he looked like a corpse towards the end. but my memories of him were of how he treated me like a king…

  6. James said, on October 5, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    Sonny Gray’s adolescent mustache stands quite in contrast to the Sox’s survivalist beards.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 7:16 pm

      the duck dynasty look is not a good one for a baseball player, imo. remember from a while back when many of the ballplayers had the castro street look.? the players had zero clue…

      • James said, on October 5, 2013 at 7:37 pm

        And yet baseball didn’t become an acknowledged camp favorite . . . . If only it had coincided with the steroid era.

  7. Alleykat said, on October 5, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    Nothing like a killer DP/strike em throw em out to squash that Tigers threat.

  8. blade3colorado said, on October 5, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Again, great stories Twin. I just came across this . . . http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/9771645/reggie-jackson-denies-disparaging-quote-thurman-munson-autobiography

    IMO Jackson comes off as an egotistical liar and buffoon, especially where he wishes he was playing today. What a tool.

  9. twinfan1 said, on October 5, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    goodnight steve, kat, james, lurkers… steve- billy had many, many faults, but you’re right about reggie- jackson was a liar- billy was not. he wore out his welcome because of his mercurial temper. no doubt his drinking also played into that and he overworked his pitchers. but he had no patience for guys who didn’t play all out all the time, and all too often reggie didn’t hustle.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 5, 2013 at 8:46 pm

      Agree. Billy didn’t suffer fools gladly and I loved how competitive he was. Good night all.

  10. Alleykat said, on October 5, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    Good nite Twin,Blade,James,lurkers…Sue Ellen,Ma,Pa,John Boy,last one to bed turns out the kerosene lamps.

  11. unca_chuck said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    Good night loon-boy . . .

  12. Macdog said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    The playoffs are my Introduction to Athletics Baseball. I’ve never even heard of this A’s pitcher, and all he’s done is completely shut down the Tigers for 8 innings. Impressive stuff.

  13. Rooster said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    I’m guessing most here have already heard this:


    • James said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:53 pm

      Unsurprisingly, I think this is a complete misreading of what the Giants need. I’d spend on nothing but pitching, within the given budget numbers. I think that case only became stronger by the conclusion of the season (although the staff finally had an acceptable month in Sept, the first one all year). The Giants offensive numbers adjusted for the extraordinary 11% league wide downturn in runs scored show that there was very little, if any, relative drop off in the position players performance at the plate against the league as a whole. In fact, they had the second highest OPS+ in the league. Conversely, this drop off only underscores the complete and utter catastrophe the pitching wrought on this team.

      Doing the same math on the 2012 runs allowed numbers as I did a little while ago on the runs scored numbers:

      649 X .89 = 578 runs

      In other words, if the Giants pitchers had performed as well against the league in 2013 as they did in 2012, they would have given up about 578 runs.

      The actual runs given up total was 691 . . . 691(!). That is just fucking horrible.

      BTW, the team everyone most everyone is rooting for, the Bucs finished with the exact same record as the Giants did a year ago, 94-68, beating the Pythagorean projection by 6 games, just like your 2012 WS champs. Here is the Pirate’s 2013 run differential:

      634 runs scored, 577 runs allowed.

      The Giants scored 629 runs. Had the pitchers performed as they did last, the team’s run differential would have been almost identical to the Pirates’ this year. This year;s failure is 100% on the pitching. Spending huge $$$ on a first baseman to rectify that problem is irrational.

  14. Alleykat said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    A’s win the A’s wiiiiiiiiiinnnnnn!!!!!

  15. Alleykat said, on October 5, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    What I love about postseason baseball any no-name can come up huge.
    C Steven Voght? Off the scrap-heat picked up by the A’s in june.And he gets the biggest hit he will ever get again.”THE GAME WINNER”
    Party Hardy Steve,well done.

  16. unca_chuck said, on October 5, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    What I hate about AL baseball. 1-0 game lasts 3 and a half hours. You kiddin’ me?

  17. snarkk said, on October 5, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    Had a nice Bday in the wine country. Some good wine, good scenery, a great dinner and a serendipitous 5- minute sit down with a Giants broadcaster. Details tomorrow…

    • Flavor said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:07 am

      looking forward to that. Turn it into a thread please.

  18. blade3colorado said, on October 6, 2013 at 7:47 am

    Wrong James. This is why – All of the current pitchers on the Giants staff have experienced success at the MLB level. They are all relatively young, except for Vogelsong and Zito, both of whom the Giants have either released (Zito) or will probably sign at a reduced contract (Voggy). I expect Cain, Lincecum and Bumgarner to have better seasons than they had this season. This doesn’t mean that I think they should not go after a pitcher. Of course they should. They can also sign Voggy at a reduced price or elevate someone from the minor leagues.

    Now, this is the part which is key to my point . . . The Giants had one position slot that failed completely – left field. Now pay attention here . . . There is NO amount of platooning or minor league in-house promotions which will adequately fix this. Do you understand this? A redux of Torres, Blanco, or any of the other fixes attempted last season WILL NOT WORK.

    To say that it is “irrational” to upgrade the offense (i.e., a 1st base upgrade, with Belt moving to left field) is a big mistake in my opinion. They must upgrade the offense because there is no one else in the system capable of providing the additional runs they had in 2012. Until you can unequivocally tell us where they will find these “mystery runs,” I’m not buying what you are selling.

  19. unca_chuck said, on October 6, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Right, blade. I see the pitching rebounding as a much more likely scenario rather than them standing pat and getting anything from LF.

  20. unca_chuck said, on October 6, 2013 at 8:20 am

    I mean, it isn’t an either/or scenario, bit that’s kinda what James is saying.

  21. unca_chuck said, on October 6, 2013 at 8:21 am

    The biggest problem this team had was lack of depth. The bench was painfully thin.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 6, 2013 at 9:52 am

      Yes, very good point Chuck. In fact, Sabean said the same thing.

  22. Nipper said, on October 6, 2013 at 8:58 am

    So far, the A’s don’t grab me. Perhaps it’s Billy Beane. Perhaps it’s their crap colors. Perhaps their crap ballpark. Their colorless manager and their players seem so minor league. Maybe if they beat Detroit in Detroit it will send a spark of interest through my dubious brain.

  23. James said, on October 6, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Blade, Chuck, relative to the rest of the league, the Giants offense was as good in 2013 as it was in 2012, even with Blanco/Torres in LF. It was as good or better than some of this year’s NL playoff teams. Blanco may not get any better, but the likelihood that Sandoval, Pagan, Belt, Posey, and Pence will collectively be more productive next year is not bad. Adding one other productive bat to the line up will not make that much difference to the team. If they had scored 670 runs this year, they still would have been under 500.

    One other calculation I didn’t do was to adjust the Giants 2013 runs allowed into 2012 values.

    691 X 1.11 = 767 runs allowed.

    In other words, the 2012 team would have finished well under 500 with this year’s staff performance.

    Note that the 2012 staff was not even that good. It was basically in the middle of the NL pack. I say this to again underscore that the utter catastrophe the 2013 pitching was is still not fully being recognized.

    Let’s say Cain returns to form. Sabes basically has to assume this, or he may as well raise the white flag next year. Or he could try to trade him. That still leaves 3 rotation spots that have no candidates who are likely to perform at the level the team needs to contend again. Timmy is neither a lock to return nor is he likely to be much better than a 5. A repeat of his 2013 performance would not even cut it as a #5, IMO, not for a starter at AT&T. Look at the Dodgers’ pitching stats. That’s what the Giants need to worry about.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 6, 2013 at 9:49 am

      “Timmy is neither a lock to return nor is he likely to be much better than a 5.”

      That is the MOST ludicrous statement I have ever heard. Just based on his no-hitter and strikeouts, he was a slam dunk 4. Hilarious James. By the by, his peripheral numbers indicate that he is doing much right (as compared to the year before, when he was terrible) and is on the cusp of “getting it.” Will this translate to a Cy Young year? I absolutely doubt that, but he has a chance to be a good 2 or 3 pitcher . . . and who wouldn’t want to take the risk of that versus getting some wuss like Garza who is either on the DL or having anxiety attacks when facing American League clubs? Hey, don’t get me wrong – If the Giants sign Garza, I will be all in, because I think the Phone Park is one of the few parks he would be successful in. Moreover, he slots as an NL pitcher.

      Now again, pay attention – As Chuck stated already, why does this have to be an A or B choice insofar as choosing between a pitcher or hitter? Please answer that. In my opinion, THEY NEED BOTH JAMES. However, as both Chuck and I stated, I have much more faith in the pitching rebounding than the hitting. it was pathetic what Posey hit in the 2nd half; the shape Sandoval was in during the 1st half and the resulting disaster of a season he had overall; and as we already mentioned, “The Black Hole” in left field.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 10:30 am

        5th offensively among nl 3rd basemen in almost all offensive categories is hardly a ‘disaster’, steve.i agree with james insofar as our offense is far more likely to improve in 2014 than the pitching. pagan’s september was encouraging -his 2012 is needed- posey should be counted to rebound, and pablo’s second half showed his improved conditioning, (.294 ba/.371 obp/.814 ops,improved defense). as far as timmy, if he went for the one year qualifying offer, i’d do it- otherwise, enjoy seattle.

      • blade3colorado said, on October 6, 2013 at 10:49 am

        Twin, we have a difference of opinion here – I think so highly of Sandoval that a 5th place finish in NL offensive categories is a disaster. In my mind, HE SHOULD BE ONE OF THE TOP 5 3RD BASEMAN IN ALL OF MLB. He has shown so much potential in the past and has fulfilled that potential only occasionally.

        Just my take, but next year is a “tell” year on whether he wants to do the work necessary to be the BEST of the best or mediocre, with only flashes of brilliance. Equally important, the Giants should use him as a trade chip if he ever again shows up out of shape in Spring training, as he has done at least twice in his career. Like I said, next year is critical for him.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 10:54 am

        steve, i completely agree that pablo should be better- but your statement about ‘disaster’ was way over the top. as far as a trade chip- he’s a good trade chip if he reports *in* shape…

      • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:05 am

        trading sandoval would mean they’d have to get a 3rd base upgrade or play posey there and get a catcher who would out hit pablo. neither scenario has much chance of happening.

      • blade3colorado said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:21 am

        Not necessarily. Arias can play there. I do get it with regard to his value being higher if he plays better. However, perhaps the larger factor (in my mind anyway) is the message he provides ownership, managerial staff, and most important, the players . . . Specifically, “Look at me – I’m am getting over on these chumps repeatedly and they are still going to pay me.” Again, my opinion – I was charitable with regard to describing him as a “disaster,” because he is worse – a “cancer” that influences the team, especially Latin players. Hey, I might be the Lone Ranger here, but cats like that destroy team chemistry and I think that this still matters. Not necessarily the “Bonds” type of attitude, where despite him being a punk ass bitch to fans, media and other players, he was ALWAYS ready to play. He left it on the field.

        Again, just me, but Pablo can play with Prince Fielder or another tub of lard if that’s how he is going to roll (no pun intended). Twin, in many ways this is related to what we were discussing last night with regard to Martin and Reggie Jackson. That’s why I am fascinated with dudes like Martin. I love that old school “give no quarter and leave everything on the field” mentality. Conversely, I really dislike tools like Jackson, who get along by talent alone. Granted, Pablo plays hard when he isn’t on the DL, but I suspect his DL stints are partially due to being out of shape. If allowed to continue, it will get worse, not better.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:59 am

        arias? he’s a hacker to put pablo to shames, he has no power and he has a sub-.300 obp. please. i’m not going to address the panda bashing, i’m enjoying my day.

  24. twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 10:03 am

    moving belt to lf is not a given if abreu is signed. he might be moved in a package for a real ofer or a top flight starting pitcher. we have exactly proven two mlb caliber starting pitchers ( timmy is not ours) . as blade has pointed out, garza had a poor finish in 2013, santana( who had been my choice among the free agent pitchers) would cost a 1st round pick and 15 million per year, and then we’re left with the bronson arroyos of the world- my heart be still. our number one need (if abreu is signed) is a top of the line starting pitcher and we aren’t getting that in free agency. belt was and still would be our most desirable trade chip, with romo-sorry, james- he would bring the top flight starting pitcher. so my revised acquisitions if abreu is signed would be the starting pitcher, an additional starting pitcher ( jason vargas), uribe, and a vet reliever. i’ll think about the pitchers i want in my new scenario and get back to sabean and you guys with my choices ;-). yes, this means that blanco and perez would be the lf platoon.

  25. willedav said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:02 am

    I lean toward James side of the argument. ATT is a pitcher friendly yard–for the Giants to have 12th most runs allowed in the league and be down there with the Brewers in pitching stats should not happen, and imo contributed greatly to their .500 record at home, another thing that should not happen.
    Sure I’d like to get more production from 3b, C, and LF, but with better pitching I could live with what we have at SS and one more bat. The playoff teams in the NL all had the top pitching stats in the league and Giants need to get a lot closer to those numbers. I can handle the torture games, win or lose.
    Dodgers rotation this year was scary good and the pen is pretty tough too tho I’m not sure Mattingly knows what he is doing, as in running League and Marmol out there. Casilla Hembree Romo Lopez Affeldt is solid but with 3 SPs that put up numbers as good or better than Bum, that’s the most significant area I’d address.

  26. James said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Blade, the offense was not a disaster in 2013. They were better than the Pirates and the Braves.

    Runs scored in MLB were the lowest since 1992, and are back to the levels of the 70s and 80s. The Giants offense in 2013 was perfectly fine, and I expect it will be again in 2014. The core players are pretty young.

    As for Timmy, well, Dan Haren still strikes out a lot of hitters, too.

    I agree TF, if they do soon sign Abreu, then they should package Belt for a SP in addition to signing another number 3 starter. I’m not sure that all of the the extra shuffling will yield a better overall result than signing 2-3 free agents. Beyond liking Belt a lot, I think the ‘we need our own new breed Island Stud” anxiety is kinda pathetic.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:27 am

      Hilarious comparing them to the Pirates. The Pirates offense SUCKS! Read and learn James . . .


      • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:25 pm

        the bucs won 94 games with that poor offense and a 3.26 team era- ours was 4.00.

  27. Flavor said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:14 am

    “the Giants offense was perfectly fine in 2013…”–James
    There isn’t a disagreement on the blog over this. You are simply the only person in the world who would have this take. Nobody, unless they had an agenda, would make this claim. NOBODY lol

  28. James said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Blade, PNC park is not that friendly to hitters. Their offense was ok for where they play, and in tandem with a pretty good staff, got them into the playoffs.

    Relativistic arguments make people weary, especially when they get repeated over and over again. That doesn’t necessarily diminish their truth.

    718 runs scored last year is equivalent to 630 runs scored this year. Relative to the rest of the league, the offense performed the same in 2013 as it did in 2012. The pitching completely collapsed this year.

    BF, my agenda is to provide a take based on the lens through which I interpret the team’s performance (it’s been pretty much the same over many years now), and to discuss/argue about it with whoever is interested. I was pointing out in 2012 already that the pitching wasn’t really as good as it was cracked up to be, and that relative to the rest of the league, the offense was much better than the absolute numbers indicate.

    If I’m genuinely pissing you and others off, I’ll stop with this discussion. I await Snarkk’s report.

    • Flavor said, on October 6, 2013 at 11:58 am

      you aren’t pissing me off, I find it amusing more than anything else. If you told Sabean and Bochy that the “2013 offense was perfectly fine” they would nod at you and then slowly start to move away

      • James said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:08 pm

        If I told the guys who crunch numbers for Sabes the same thing, they’d give me a Knowing Dude head nod and then tell me to shut the fuck up. πŸ™‚

  29. twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    they need 3 starting pitchers ideally, 2 for *sure*. they need that *plus* a full year from pagan, better years from ss, panda, and posey. if they sign abreu- get the pitching first, make the decision on whether they trade belt or move him to left, and go from there. imo. the take from james is *always* worth considering.. he provides an angle and knowlege that may be open to argument but is indispensble here, imo.

    • Flavor said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:16 pm

      so you support the claim that “the offense was perfectly fine in 2013”?

      • James said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:21 pm

        A question to you, BF: do you disagree with the claim that, if the Giants pitching staff had performed in 2013 as they did in 2012, 629 runs scored would have been good enough to keep the Giants in contention all year and would have possibly landed them a playoff spot?

      • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:28 pm

        ‘so you support the claim that β€œthe offense was perfectly fine in 2013β€³?
        i didn’t say that.

      • Flavor said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:33 pm

        I don’t look at it that way. Different year, different variables, different everything. The year was lost BECAUSE the offense sucked shit in the entire 2nd half of the season outside of a couple of games where they scored 9+ runs. Then it went back to 01–1-2-0-1-2-3 per game.
        And Twin, I didn’t say you said that. I asked if you support the claim made by James that “the 2013 offense was perfectly fine.” I don’t expect you to answer, I just wanted to highlight how absurd that claim was and whether you were going to ignore it or support it.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:26 pm

      wrong place.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:39 pm

      well, *so* i support it infers that i do. but no biggie. they need improved years from those players i’ve mentioned, better defense, at least a couple pitchers, and better hitting. that pretty much covers it πŸ˜‰

  30. blade3colorado said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    You can go around and around about the Giants pitching staff needing improvement all you want. No one is arguing that. Capisce? James you can give your “what ifs” until the cows come home with regard to comparing the Giants offense to the sorry offense of the Pirates and how if only the Giants had a 2012 redux of their pitching staff, all would be well. Uhh huh. OK, how about this . . .

    The Boston Red Sox scored 853 runs and runs scored against them was 656. “Well, gee Mr. Rogers, how’d they win their division by 5.5 games by giving up so many runs?” In other words James – your way to win is ONLY ONE WAY, NOT THE ONLY WAY. What’s more important than RS and RA is ensuring that your RS is more than your RA stat, as only one team in the National League missed the playoffs (Washington); and, two teams in the American League (Kansas city and Rangers) missed with that equation in place.

  31. twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    i think it’s a reasonable argument as to which ‘side of the ball’ we need most. but unless crawford is going somewhere, they’re probably set at 7 of the 8 positions, whether it’s abreu or belt at first. if they’re both here- the starting spots are set. like it or not. so at best, they’re getting a lfer and a utilty player or two to improve the offense. that’s just the reality of it.

  32. Nipper said, on October 6, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Giants need a third baseman that stays in shape, stays out of trouble and is committed to a MLB career. Is Pablo the man? I doubt it. Damn good hitter but perhaps in the wrong league. Oh and his promises to correct his shortcomings are not credible. If you were in business, would you buy his act? Would you bet the mortgage on him?

    • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 1:09 pm

      damn, you’re really putting the pedal to the metal lately, nip. fact is, late or not, panda made midseason efforts to improve his conditioning and *it showed*. *if* he does show up in poor shape, i’m sure the team will deal with it. *if*.

  33. snarkk said, on October 6, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    New thread will be up in about 1/2 hour…

    • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 1:19 pm

      looking forward to the dinner report…

  34. Alleykat said, on October 6, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Well im not totally sold at 2B with Scoots /age 38/mallet finger/ sore back/crappy D
    I would like to see what it might take to get 2B Howie Kendricks,who the Angels might peddle this winter.Worth a look imo,younger,speed,better D.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 6, 2013 at 2:45 pm

      well, i’m not sold either, but i don’t see them getting second baseman with 2 years and 13 million tied up in scooter. he’d be the guy they replace with a utility guy from in the system or outside, imo.

  35. snarkk said, on October 6, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    New thread up…

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: