A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Dream is Dead

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 18, 2013

………At least the one I had about signing Abreu and then trading Belt, Crick and Romo for David Price. The White Sox gave Abreu 6 years/68 million. That was pretty close to my guess of 5 years/60 million. You knew he was going to get more than Puig based off his success in LA and the number of teams competing for Abreu. Sabean abhors competition ever since Boras hoodwinked him into an extra 30 million or so on Zito’s deal  so I didn’t really think we had a legitimate chance of signing him. But dreaming about it wasn’t too far fetched.

Whatever, he’s much better suited for the American League anyway. He can DH as his girth grows. And getting bigger is a realistic concern for a guy who’s weight is already bumping up against the brink of acceptability.

And, with a GM who doesn’t want to part with prospects of value I think there’s no chance we would ever see Sabean offer up the likely 3 top prospects that it will take to get Price.

So, I guess it’s time for a new dream……

What would a package of Arias, Affeldt, Villalona, Pill, Linden and Monell net us? You know that’s a puzzle that Sabean is trying to put together…..

81 Responses

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  1. willedav said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:03 am

    Trading Belt or even moving him to LF isn’t something I looked forward to. By end of season he seemed to have figured things out and was bringing more power too. His defense is very good, he’s young and inexpensive. Belt to me seems like the type of guy to build around in the middle of the order.
    The hefty amount of talent you’d have to give up for a Price also has to be weighed against the fact that you only control him for 2 years and then he’s an FA all over again. So whomever leaves in a deal it has to be at a position where you think he can be adequately replaced somehow. Romo I could see falling into that category; others such as Sandoval, a lot less.
    It’s interesting the baseball gods have given Matheny and his team a chance at redemption for last year. Reds and Braves so far have failed to take similar advantage. One will have a new mgr., and the other will lose some players and likely look different at a couple positions next year.

  2. chipower9 said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:16 am

    What would that package get us? IMO nothing along the lines of what most of the regulars here think the team needs. I think the bullpen needs a tune-up, and dumping Affeldt really doesn’t do much for you. You must replace him, and you only save 6 mil a year. Arias is a decent enough utility guy, but he isn’t an earth-shaker. Pill, Linden…AAAA all the way. Villalona – don’t see him becoming an important part of our system, and I think most teams would probably agree. Monell? Maybe if someone really needs a young catcher to groom, but the times I saw him, I was unimpressed. Again…all that said, I don’t see that package doing much.

    If you are going to do a trade, and expect an important piece (starting pitcher or decent OFer), then I think you have to give up the likes of a Romo, Belt, etc.

    I agree with WillieD on Belt for all the reasons he mentions. I would hang on to him.

    • Flavor said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:31 am

      Maybe it didn’t come across in text, but I was being sarcastic

      • chipower9 said, on October 18, 2013 at 10:45 am

        Or maybe (most likely) I was brain-dead from not having my morning coffee, yet. 😉

  3. chipower9 said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:19 am

    And with that (my previous post) I think the FA market is going to be the place where you see most of the pieces added. Maybe Romo and some decent prospects for a solid OFer, but that is it.

    It will be an interesting off-season. I think one of the keys to Sabean being successful at putting together a solid team is that the payroll is going to have to increase (not to YankMee or Bum heights…but it is going to have to increase to add a couple of starters, a bullpen piece or two, and an OFer).

  4. willedav said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Chron last few days has had articles on specialization of kids sports like Snarkk and I talked about few threads ago. Even a private school coach from Serra is complaining about it, which is ironic in that private school coaches often run such programs on the side for middle school age kids which allows them to *attract* the better players to their HS. to be fair, public school HS coaches do the same thing–play off season club for us to improve your game and make sure you can keep a spot on the team. And the threat isn’t just implied.
    Unfortunately, all sports do this nowadays and the columns have done a pretty good job of pointing out the negative factors. I think one of strong arguments they make concern injuries due to repetitive stress and time taken away from proper conditioning. I’ve coached kids who play on Asian club teams during the spring and AAU on other weekends throughout summer. I’ve recommended they cut back on hardwood time playing and do more conditioning, to strengthen core legs and upper body, especially for girls.
    As the columns pointed out, the chance of going D-1 is infinitesimal and scholarships in most sports are limiited, and if you want to continue to play in college at D-2 or D-3, there aren’t any scholarships available anyway so they don’t care how much AAU you played. At some point very early in their lives kids are going to realize they are only gonna play for fun, and I hope they are still physically OK and mentally not burned out on the sport by overdoing it at too young an age.
    The stories on Wed about the boy with Tommy John surgery at 16 and the VB girl who quite the sport going through physical therapy for back and shoulder issues as a senior in HS are frightening.

    • zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:35 am

      Well said, Willie. Great insights there.

  5. willedav said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:54 am

    I’d also still be hesitant on dropping $68 mil on the Cuban guys. Even someone as talented as Cespedes suffered a noticeable drop off at the plate 2013. He’s not a very accomplished OF either and hasn’t been able to stay healthy. Would seem to be classic case of a guy Beane dumps off in a year or two if he doesn’t improve.
    I can see the Sox trying to do anything to improve the offense and keep the fanbase happy, but imo this guy could just as easily be out of baseball in 6 years. And with a Soriano type deal he’d be tough to trade if it turns out he is only a .260 hitter with power.

  6. twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:59 am

    good morning.
    1. abreu- i was never in favor of giving that kind of money to a reserve second baseman in the first place. wait a minute, zeke is trying to say something- ‘not THAT abreu, dummy’..
    2. sorry about that
    3. ok- jose dariel abreu- 6 years is a long time for a guy who has received mixed ‘reviews’- i think grant brisbee summed up one report thusly- ‘maybe he’s Brett Pill without the athleticism’. funny stuff…*or* a ‘latter-day Andres Galarraga’. the white sox will have to find out…
    4. trading belt- still not out of the picture. there are exactly ZERO top flight ( as in a 1 or 2) starting pitchers on the free agent market- and we need one. and belt is easily the best, if not the only, position player trade chip we have who could be the centerpiece in a trade for that top of the line pitcher. i love belt but one of the reasons he’s such an attractive trade chip is that as good as he may become ,his ceiling at at&t is probably lower than it is *anywhere* else.
    5. october 15, 2015- president obama praises democrat and republican leaders for hashing out a compromise that will avert the 7th government shut down since 2013…

  7. Nipper said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:00 am

    Yeah don’t fall in love with the Cubans. Many won’t do shit in the long run.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 10:34 am

      castro had a pretty good run until his quad cane limited his range to his left side…

  8. twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:13 am

    ‘What would a package of Arias, Affeldt, Villalona, Pill, Linden and Monell net us?’ i knew bf was being sarcastic but he nailed a wonderful example of the typical dunderheaded splash blog winter air trade that would net us price *and* wil myers…

  9. salty said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:16 am

    There’s a Cuban 2b Giants are looking at but so are the Bums.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:42 am

      and i did forget pitcher masahiro tanaka but at about a 60 mill posting fee and at least that much for a 5 year contract, he’s an unlikely target, especially with yankees already set to pounce.

  10. salty said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Curious to see Wacha pitch tonight. Amazing how quickly he developed for the Cards. Interesting he was taken one spot (19th) before Giants took Chris Stratton, who I gather is a couple of years away.

  11. zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:30 am

    The Red Sox are probably like the Giants were to a lot of baseball fans these past few years. Not appearing to be the best team on paper, but something magical happens on the field. Well, it’s not magic, of course, it’s well-played baseball, an absolutely solid team identity, approach, and chemistry, and catching a few breaks.
    Of the teams left, I’m still pulling for Detroit, but Boston has grown on me a little.

    • snarkk said, on October 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm

      They’ve got beards, too. Uehara is their closer and he’s done well, but has no track record of being this good, he’s 38 and his deal is done after the WSeries. Wilson’s beard would fit in well there…

  12. zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:33 am

    A special website set up for Cardinal fans:

  13. twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 10:25 am

    yeah, after last year i’m sure card fans are a little nervous. on the other hand, kershaw was 7 months old the last time the bums made it to the ws. they’re so desperate for a spark that it’s being reported that donnie plans to limp when he goes out with the line up card..

  14. Bozo said, on October 18, 2013 at 10:56 am

    The Giants probably knew this beforehand, but according to Baggs, Tim is saying nyuk nyuk nyuk to the Giants two year offer and wants to test the free agency waters.


    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 11:25 am

      word is sabes is close to a deal with the granny from santa rosa. ‘she’s a solid vet and besides, we couldn’t get honey boo boo’

      • Bozo said, on October 18, 2013 at 11:43 am

        She must be a lefty.

    • snarkk said, on October 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm

      Can’t blame Lincecum one bit. He’s been a huge draw for the Giants, they’ve made a ton of money off him. Who among us wouldn’t see what the market wants to pay us, were we in his position? I think I said before it was 70-30 he’s gone. I’ll go with 80-20 now, and I hope I’m wrong…

      • Nipper said, on October 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm

        Snarkk you’re never wrong. Goodbye Timmy.

  15. Alleykat said, on October 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Well Timmeh might as well sign with the Dogpile now.
    Once they pick up Price too,they will have 4 CY Young starters and Ryu.
    Then Sabes will get the table scraps…Ricky Nolasco.

    • Nipper said, on October 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm


  16. zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    The demonstrably arrogant thing some of the Dodgers do is kind of a two-edged sword. I think of 3 of the most demonstrably arrogant teams I can remember: the ’85 Chicago Bears, the ’80s Miami Hurricanes, and the early ’90 Dallas Cowboys. They all won championships, and then imploded for a generation or more. That level of showboating attitude brings a crumble of the structural integrity of an organization, IMO. The players will keep pushing the envelope on behavior, and some kind of rot sets in for an organization.
    Just my opinion on that.

  17. snarkk said, on October 18, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    The Giants chance of getting Price is slim and none. I doubt they’ll even get into the bidding. That’s just not the Giants style, to get into a bidding war over money or prospects. If BowTie were still around, maybe. Not now. They nabbed Pence early just to avoid that situation. If I were the Rays, to trade Price to SF I’d ask for Crick plus the world, and Sabes would just hang up. That is, if he even called. Besides, Crick could be the next Price or Cain, and he won’t cost $20+M a year. Who knows, they might bring Crick up mid-season 2014 if he does well at Richmond…

    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 1:52 pm

      there seems to be a view that if sabean doesn’t get the flavour de jour ( no reference to our bf is intended), that he was remiss- even a casual search for the scouting reports on abreu make a 6 year contract way out of line for a 27 yo one tool player- even if that one tool is incredible power. you take that risk for a couple years, no way for 6.
      as to price, we’re talking trade- if the rays want too much- find another trade partner. i mused over timmy a couple weeks ago- and i agreed that he’ll probably go- but for different reasons- imo he has more chance now of being a decent 5 than a good 3 and 28-30 million for 2 years is a huge overpay. risk/reward again.

  18. twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    standings reminder as we go into the weekend games.

    8 points (salty and chi)- these guys really want it. they’ve offered me a grand for the 500 buck pc. look, i’m a man of principle……………………..i’ll take nine hundred…
    7 points ( rooster)- a couple dozen careful examinations of the contest rules and i still can’t find anything disqualifying barnyard fowl from participation
    6 points (birddog)- sly dog sittin’ in the catbird seat
    5 points( macdog, denny)-if the cards and sox can close it out, we’ll have a 5 man and one thanksiving dinner race for the prizes
    4 points (boxhead, unca chuck, sportsdude) – look up- see those guys up there? they’re good men and an average bird. you’d break their hearts if you come from behind and take the win. i heard that- ‘screw them’ is not a gentlemanly thing to say..
    3 points( wes, wilcojoe, kevin, kat) -in the running for a mattel kruise-o-matic tablet with dr. dan the bandage man ebook reader
    2 points ( manny, pawlie, winder, blade, flavor) – is there a kinder, gentler way to say ‘ grab some pine, meat?’ i didn’t think so. sorry guys.
    1 point- (snarkk, dawg)- snarkk will be representing dawg and himself in a ‘wrongful feet up’ lawsuit. hey, i told both of you guys- the ‘costanza rule’ ain’t gonna work..

    i’ll update the standings after the weekend. remember to send your world series picks to michael.scott2@mchsi.com your picks should include your pick for the world series winner, how many games it takes, and a tie breaker. i can’t find what craig said it would be, i’ll post that when he lets me know- or maybe one of you remembers it. you have from the completion of the alcs on the 20th until 1 pm pacific october 23th to send me your picks. if it’s ok with bf i’ll do two threads after the weekend= one with the updated standings after the weekend and one after i get all the ws picks.

    • Flavor said, on October 18, 2013 at 4:44 pm

      Tie breaker; total # of runs scored in World Series by both teams

      • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:12 pm

        gotcha, chi thought it was that,

  19. Irish Kevin said, on October 18, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    I am a little behind the times, but the Chron has pics of the the 1989 earthquake, including pics of CS. I had forgotten how devastating that Earthquake was.

  20. Alleykat said, on October 18, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Twin…Any chance I can upgrade my Mattel kruise- o-matic and Dr.Dan the bandage man tablet, for a Wham- O Air blaster?
    Great fun as a kid,use to drive my sister crazy blowing her hair to shreds.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 4:46 pm

      sorry, i got a special deal from the ‘pope’- that’s what we insiders call ron popeil. he gave me a few kruise- o-matics if i’d the take the rest of his tuna squeezers off his hands. but i see that the wham- O air blaster was pulled from the shelves when the some of the evil little bastards found novel ways to deploy their new weapon- like blowing out the ear drums of their playmates… PERFECT! i want one! that paper boy has hurled his last newspaper in my pond.
      maybe my favorite invention of ron’s is the GLH-9: hair in a can: as seen on tv!


  21. chipower9 said, on October 18, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    I cannot find anything on the tie-breaker either, but believe it was total runs scored in the World Series by both teams.

    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 2:45 pm

      that’s what we’ll make it, then.

  22. Nipper said, on October 18, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Giants would be wise to stay away from a long term deal with any pitcher. Players come and go so please no tears if Timmy leaves for another destination. It’s unbecoming of a tough flapper fan.

    • snarkk said, on October 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm

      Well Nippy you’re a little late on the Cain deal, aren’t you?
      No tears here if Timmy goes, but a couple of tumblers of Scotch for a proper send off, should it happen. Is that OK?…

      • Alleykat said, on October 18, 2013 at 4:36 pm

        I’ ll drink to that Snarkk..
        Maybe a few shots of Fireball Cinnamon Whiskey!!!!

  23. Alleykat said, on October 18, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    I’m diggin the hair in a can Twin, I assume it will grow you a mustache and beard.
    Should order a can for that A’s pitcher Sonny Gray.
    2 favorites of Ronny for me was the Popeil Pocket Fisherman (son of a bitch worked well backpacking.
    And The Ron Ronco Rotisserie (set it and forget it) Now that Bad Boy is the “BOMB”” 15 lb Turkey 3 Hours spinning like Harry’s Hofbrau window display comes out perfect.Vegetables in a basket spinning great too.Prime Rib,chickens anything this bad boy did the job!!!

    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 5:45 pm

      ‘I assume it will grow you a mustache and beard’ you bet it will! and if you don’t like it- it’s a snap to remove in 12 easy monthly steps. caution- no open flames within 7 city blocks during each removal step.

  24. sinceseventy8 said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Top 10 Reasons the Giants didn’t sign Jose Daniel Abreu:

    #10 Earl Haffler told them he was a Dominican in a Cuban wrapper
    #9 He can’t play left field
    #8 They are scared of another Osvaldo Fernandez incident
    #7 They knew he was destined to be a DH (that’s for you Nipper)
    #6 Larry Baer couldn’t convince ownership that a Cuban sandwich would be the next garlic fries
    #5 They found out he wasn’t Bobby’s son
    #4 They thought he was a pitcher named Chapman
    #3 The Sox promised to trade Paul Konerko for two Ball Dudes so he could end his career in SF
    #2 They didn’t want to rename Triples Alley, Bat-Flips Alley
    #1 Twerking

    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:10 pm

      if they would have moved him to lf- two triples alleys!
      great list, 78.

      • sinceseventy8 said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:14 pm

        2 for sure … who plays LF if they should happen to sign Ellsbury? If they cannot sign a power hitter that is. Personally I would have Ellsbury, Crazy Horse, Pence L to R. Not a bad OF.

  25. James said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    Did I just see Beltran make a choking gesture towards Kershaw?

    Clayton was probably rusty from the 4 days’ rest.

    • zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:46 pm


  26. Macdog said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    I think that last throw by Puig went over the arch.

    • zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:51 pm

      Awesome inning. 🙂

  27. zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    Puig played some lousy rightfield that inning. You can’t cheat the baseball gods. It’ll help Puig realize there are things he needs to learn.

  28. Macdog said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    This little Puigie made another error.

    • James said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:29 pm

      66 . . . His cloven hooves shall be revealed!

  29. Alleykat said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    I am so “Fuckin Stoked ” that the Dogpile are getting their Asses smoked tonight!!!

  30. twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    if cards hold on tonight and the sox close it out tomorrow, denny shoots up from 5 points to 9. that would probably create a tie with salty and rooster with chi and birdog at 8 points and chuck and macdog at 7. this is predicated, as above, if the cards and sox both close it out in 6. that would make it 7 guys with a great shot at winning. kudos to craig for coming up a format that gives so many players a real chance of winning.

    • Flavor said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:49 pm

      I’m assuming you mean that Denny can shoot up 4 points to 9 since 5 points isn’t possible in these 2 series.

      • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:01 pm

        no-he has 5 now and 4 makes 9. i didn’t say he shot up 5-i said he would shoot up from 5 to 9. thanks for checking on me, though. sometimes i do transpose numbers nowadays

      • Flavor said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:13 pm

        Got it. I read it wrong

  31. Bozo said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    How was my math so far off? I had the Cards winning 3-0. Damn.

  32. Flavor said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    This Puig guy is no longer gonna be a problem……

  33. James said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    If it is Cards and Sox, the 2 best offenses in baseball will be in the WS. Worth noting only because pitching doesn’t always win championships.

    If only those beards were Leninist . . . .

    • James said, on October 18, 2013 at 7:52 pm

      I should emend that: the best offensive teams in each league will be in the WS.

      • zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:03 pm

        A Cards/Sox series would be the hardest for me to watch, though. The irony is, if the Dodgers had made the World Series, I would have been more likely to watch it, to root against them. I’m sure I’ll end up watching some of it, anyway. It’s baseball.

    • wswins said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:14 pm

      not always- just about 99% of the time

      • James said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:30 pm

        More like 50%,WSW!

      • wswins said, on October 19, 2013 at 8:44 am


  34. zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    How about that interview with Two-trips. When asked about Puig, he said something like “We’re trying to teach him things. That’s all I can say.” Gotta work on Puig’s “coachability factor.” 🙂

  35. Nipper said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Too bad for Rooster…..

    • zumiee said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:10 pm

      The Curse of Reagan. What can we say?

    • wswins said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:11 pm


    • twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:15 pm

      he’ll probably be tied for 1st in the contest after tomorrow. he’s waited 25 years for a championship, if he wins he can watch highlights of it on his new pc…

  36. twinfan1 said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    goodnight all. good day again.

  37. Macdog said, on October 18, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    The Art Dealers ended up with a forgery.

  38. gianthead said, on October 18, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    The order in the universe has been restored…

  39. willedav said, on October 19, 2013 at 7:35 am

    The Red Sox are never gonna grow on me, but there is something to be said for what a Jonny Gomes brings to a team. Certainly not the best player out there, but someone who sure makes a difference.
    How ironic is it that Wacha is the guy STL drafted with their pick for letting Pujols walk? All he did was outduel the great Kershaw, twice.
    You can spend all you want and have the best team on paper, but it doesn’t guarantee shit.
    F-ing awesome.

  40. wswins said, on October 19, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Just a shame roosters don’t have long enough tails to go between their legs…

  41. twinfan1 said, on October 19, 2013 at 9:48 am

    st. louis has hit .210 in the post season with a 2.34 team era. boston has hit .242 with a 3.16 team era. detroit has hit .245 in the post season with a team era of 2.66.

  42. twinfan1 said, on October 19, 2013 at 10:20 am

    just pointing out that in the postseason the pitching has carried the three teams left, not their hitting.

  43. twinfan1 said, on October 19, 2013 at 10:48 am

    in far more important baseball news, the homeplate collision involving alex avila and david ross(also a catcher) in the playoffs seems to have convinced many that the rules have to be changed to ban such collisions. there aren’t any details that i’ve seen as to what the rule would say, but it seems certain that it will addressed in the off season and according to buster olney,one mlb exec told him ‘I don’t know who could argue to keep it.’ ( referring to the rule allowing such collisions to take place)…
    both players involved in the collision have suffered concussions earlier this year as the result of homeplate collisions.as usual, any new rule will be a pr move rather than a heartfelt concern for the health of the players. with even goodall’s ‘house of pain and terror’ adopting rules changes to address the costs of concussions to long term brain health, mlb will be shamed into acting.

    • Flavor said, on October 19, 2013 at 10:57 am

      As long as dunderhead Torre has anything to say about it, I’ll believe a rule change when I see it

      • twinfan1 said, on October 19, 2013 at 11:27 am

        i’m optimistic but hardly convinced that a rule change will come about- torre and too many others seem to think these are macho displays of courage. but after the overwhelming evidence about concussions and long term effects on the brain forced the nfl to act ( as we know, they had shamefully denied the medical findings), more and more minds are being changed. we’ll see. but i think a ban is possible by the 2014 season.

  44. twinfan1 said, on October 19, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    update going into tonights game:

    7-rooster, denny
    6-birddog, chuck,macdog
    5-kevin, kat
    4-boxhead,sportsdude, wilcojoe,flavor
    3-wes,manny,blade,San DiggityDawg
    1- snarkk

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