A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Richie Incognito, He Is No More

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 4, 2013

The bullying situation in Miami has to be an isolated incident, right? Or is this what goes on in other NFL locker rooms? You can argue that it’s too absurd to happen in other NFL locker rooms but everyone knows that Bounty-Gate wasn’t just about the Saints. That stuff happens in all locker rooms to this day.

Here’s an example of what this POS Incognito said to Martin in a voice mail:

incognito

And I don’t want to hear about this being football and it’s just hazing, and how NFL locker rooms are different than other work places. This is a fucking work place and Martin has to put up with this type of bullshit? No way. And all the dopes calling into KNBR saying he should have fought Incognito, even if he lost, to protect his reputation need to go back to prison where they came from. The rest of us will live in society……

The Dolphins had this cretin on a 6 player leadership committee. So either the Miami coach is totally clueless with no feel for the dynamics of his team or he’s a disgusting human who supported this type of behavior. Putting him on a leadership committee? 

And is there a bigger piece of shit pussy than a bully who calls out a guy half his weight in a twitter rant? Answer: there isn’t.

pussytweeter

Here’s some past *weirdo* stuff tweeted out by Incognito about Martin:

http://extramustard.si.com/2013/11/04/richie-incognitos-twitter-history-with-jonathan-martin/

Anyway, “Meathead” doesn’t begin to describe this stupid fuck.

meathead

87 Responses

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  1. snarkk said, on November 4, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    I heard it reported that Martin paid this dude and his vet buds last year $15K towards a trip to Vegas, as some kind of rookie payment thing, and Martin didn’t even go, he just paid to keep this POS out of his face. That’s some krazy krap right there. OK, yeah, sure here’s $15K just to go away? This situation is totally bogus. Sounds like the management knew, and didn’t do anything until Martin left the squad and it went viral. And, I wonder how that ‘roids and PEDs testing is doing in the NFL?…

  2. Nipper said, on November 4, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    No comment.

  3. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 12:12 am

    Food for thought article on the changing winds in hiring MLB managers…
    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/63684142/

    • Chipower9 said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:54 am

      Good read, snarkk – thanks for sharing.

  4. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 12:18 am

    Will we ever get a friggin’ quality outfielder from our system?…
    From Schulman:
    “Prospect injured: Gustavo Cabrera, a 17-year-old outfielder whom the Giants signed last year for $1.3 million, is sidelined indefinitely after a freak accident at his home in the Dominican Republic severely injured his right hand.
    Cabrera slipped and braced himself on a glass door or table and “pretty near severed almost everything you can sever in your arm,” Evans said.
    Cabrera flew to San Francisco for surgery and will miss at least a year. Evans said the injury is not career-threatening.”

    • Bozo said, on November 5, 2013 at 5:39 am

      Baseball America’s Ben Badler broke the story and saw pictures of the injury, which he described as “gruesome” and “graphic.”
      “Cabrera appeared to nearly lose his right hand,” Badler wrote.
      Giants farm director Fred Stanley confirmed Cabrera’s injury, saying it was his understanding that Cabrera likely would be able to play in 2014, and the injury would not threaten his career. “He wasn’t going to Augusta anyway,” Stanley said of the 17-year-old center fielder. “He was going to the Arizona League and that doesn’t start till June. So he’s got eight months. I’m betting he’ll be 100 percent by that time.”

      So if I get this right, the kid almost cut off his hand but the Giants think he might be back by June. I don’t know if this is related, but Fred Stanley also just resigned “Without getting into a whole bunch of stuff, it’s better I say it’s time for me to step away,” said Stanley, who resigned before the Giants could make a decision whether to extend his contract. Hmmm, what the fuck is going on down on the farm?

      And snarkk’s question about a quality OFer through our system seems to be getting more valid each year. Cabrera was a long way away but with Gary Brown becoming a Marvin Bernard wannabe and another high-profile signee, outfielder Rafael Rodriguez, who received $2.55 million in 2009 and after four years is now considered a non-prospect, you gotta wonder.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2013 at 6:56 am

        Amazing what medical science can achieve today . . . As recently as a decade ago, if you severed nerves and ligaments running through the carpal tunnel, there wasn’t much a surgeon could do for you, i.e., the primary nerves controlling your five fingers (median and ulnar) would be toast; usually resulting in “claw” or “ape” hand even in the event they were able to save your hand from amputation.

  5. blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2013 at 6:51 am

    Very nice summary of the “Incognito” story Flavor. I came upon this story while I was reviewing some basketball players for my 2 fantasy leagues and Fan Duel tournament yesterday . . . Fast forward to the rest of the evening, I was mesmerized and fascinated by reading numerous articles and columns about this stupid fuck and his interaction with Martin, other players, former coaches (Spagnoula sp?), law enforcement, etc. How does someone like this have a job in the NFL, much less any workplace? If you get a chance, catch the ESPN round table analysis video clip, where Bill Polian is spot on discussing this idiot. Keown also writes a great column about this situation:

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9926888/miami-dolphins-kept-richie-incognito-control

    Especially like this excerpt from the Keown column where he summarizes his take on this situation . . .

    “The Dolphins’ situation appears to be a systemic breakdown, with the older men at the top unable — or unwilling — to police the younger men below.

    Either that or a small part of them thought Martin was getting what he deserved, that Incognito was simply taking care of business, making sure the culture gets what the culture demands.”

    • Chipower9 said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:14 am

      Good read, Steve…thanks for sharing.

  6. Bozo said, on November 5, 2013 at 7:21 am

    Sounds like Incognito will be looking for a job soon.
    “He’s done,” a ranking club source told the Miami Herald Monday. “There are procedures in place and everyone wants to be fair. The NFL is involved. But from a club perspective he’ll never play another game here.”

  7. willedav said, on November 5, 2013 at 8:26 am

    Sad to say but I’ve seen subtler but just as effective forms of stuff like this in HS, on girls teams no less. Incoming frosh getting silent treatment and being frozen out by upper classmen who aren’t in favor of them taking a friend’s spot on the team (regardless of talent), so they deliberately sabotage it. And of course, off the court situation is worse for younger kid who is made to know her place in no uncertain terms.
    I actually saw evidence of this on a guys varsity team with a talented frosh G I helped coach while in college. Head guy stopped practice one day and told his seniors to knock the BS off. He later told me the seniors were one of worst groups he’d ever coached in 30 yrs. and the frosh went on to have a fine HS career once they left.
    One of the responsibilities of captains is to be liaison with coaching staff–help get messages across channels and issues resolved privately. Obviously in Miami that wasn’t the case, where the *leadership* group apparently had carte blanche to intimidate however they chose. Sounds like there is more to it than one bad apple.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2013 at 8:45 am

      Actually Willie, Incognito was part of Miami’s 6 player leadership group (they called it a council), i.e., the fox was in the hen house.

  8. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Bill Romanowski related his hazing as a 49er and said he finally fought a guy who dogged him for ll of camp and the first 6 games (unnamed). He said he took him down down with 5 punches.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2013 at 8:31 am

      Of course, he was roiding at the time.

      • snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:45 am

        Maybe it was an assistant equipment manager…

  9. willedav said, on November 5, 2013 at 8:34 am

    On lighter note I saw that Clips beat Rockets 137-118 last night. Wow, score sounds like something out of the Iceman’s Spurs vs. Alex English with Doug Moe coaching Nuggets era; each team had a 40 pt quarter which must have been fun to watch. If someone resurrects Artis Gilmore’s fro I could actually watch more of nba. 89-74 games like Sat with pacers-cavs, no.

  10. PawlieKokonuts said, on November 5, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Having been bullied, I recoil at this stuff. I never did care for any of that locker room towel-snapping shit.

    In good news, I just learned today that WORLD SERIOUS is one of three finalists for the Central New York Book Awards, Non-Fiction. Now, I don’t know if three books, four books, or fifty-nine books were submitted for consideration. Still grateful nevertheless. I’ll know if I won at a dinner on December 5, to be attended with Yankee Stadium Game Mystery Woman, all dolled up, I anticipate.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:58 am

      That’s fantastic, Pawlie. I see that a book of your poetry “Tipp Hill Litanies” had also been nominated. Do I have your permission to say I “knew you when”?
      World seriously, congatulations!

  11. twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:34 am

    It would take a book, not a blog comment, to detail the NFL’s and the team’s complicity in condoning if not actively promoting the hazing and bullying that are common place in locker rooms and practice fields everywhere. One would have to have been born on the planet Gooberania to not belive that the Dolphins were fully aware of what was going on. Clearly the sudden suspension and investigation are PR moves undertaken only because the details came to full light late Sunday- despite many incidents that the team clearly had to be aware of. Earlier on Sunday the team was in full denial, a spokesperson issued this statement “The notion of bullying is based on speculation and has not been presented to us as a concern from Jonathan or anyone else internally.”
    The outrageous nature of Incognito’s behavior and his long history of deviant conduct will actually serve the NFL well as they will now paint Incognito as a lone wacko and the prevalence of this locker room “bonding ritual” to promote “team chemistry” will go unexamined.
    This is not to say that Incognito isn’t a very extreme example and it’s not to say that what Martin endured is commonplace. I remember from back in the old Splash days where virtually everything was allowed, we used to joke that Kershner let us all in the “locker room” and locked the doors and closed his ears. The NFL, the colleges, even the high schools treat their locker rooms the same way. And I’d bet that if a poll of players where the respondents were promised anonymity was conducted, Martin would be the villain, the snitch. Incognito? The ‘hate crime” investigation will go nowhere, the Dolphin’s will release him, he’ll serve a supension- and be back on the field by 2015, if not 2014. Martin will be an outcast wherever he goes. And the hazing and bullying will continue. Good line from “A few Good Men” from Cruise’s character Lt. Daniel Kaffee- “I want you to know that I think the whole fucking bunch of you are certifiably insane. This code of honor of yours makes me want to beat the shit out of somebody.”
    And so it goes..

  12. Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Bullying as an adult, that is so much crap. Totally agree Flav, When I was growing up, I hung out with construction guys, roofers etc. and not one of them treated my like shit. Yeah I got all the shit little jobs as the rookie, but that goes on with any job. Miami needs to pay him to go away. bye bye, see ya, wouldn’t want to be ya.

  13. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Very likely this Ingnoramito guy was not alone in Miami doing what he was doing, he just went over the top and was stoopid enough to leave evidence on twitter and incredibly, voicemail. Some circles of ex or current NFL players are defending Ignoramito, and dissing the victim as essentially a wuss. Not unexpected from a culture where Sunday barbarism is the routine. Stories out on radio today where this has gone on in some form or another in many other lockerrooms. Although coaches like Walsh and Holmgren would not tolerate it and said so. The thing that surprised me was the size of the payoffs in Miami. I might understand where rookies as a group have to pay for a group big feed at the House of Prime Rib or some such, but one guy paying $15K to vets so they can go to Vegas? Apparently this nut forced rookies to buy vets expensive jetskis, too. That’s crossed the line somehow into extortion territory. No doubt with the media frenzy on this, more will be forthcoming out of Miami. Looks like the entire organization will need a housecleaning…

  14. Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:45 am

    To further this conversation though, and this really concerns the latest Bullying in schools. What is the difference between bullying and teasing someone?? very fine line?? or is it pretty defined. In todays social media world are words enough to be called bullying?? the whole sticks and stones thing comes to mind. in my day for guys that were getting teased/bullied, we were pretty much told to suck it up, be a man. Now every child who cannot handle criticism, teased etc, well they are called sensitive and we should protect them as best we can. Well what is going to happen when the child becomes an adult in the real world, where people can be cruel in a whole new way. And what do we do with the bully, teaser??

    • willedav said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:08 am

      In sports world and elsewhere, there are lines that can’t be crossed, and of course once something is said out loud it can’t be taken back. Right thoughts, right actions, kids and adults have to learn this from someone.
      Kids in sports are hardly immune from it, esp the newer or lesser talented kids that are easily made to feel inferior, while the more highly skilled often get away with bad behavior because they can play at higher level.
      In this case the rookie is supposed to be subservient and do what he is told and *pay his dues* to join the club.
      I’m not into all the celebration stuff I see in pro sports, because of the trickle down affect. What golden tate did on his TD did makes me cringe, and hopefully Carroll made him aware that’s not how to act. Kids see that BS and think it’s cool to go out and strut their stuff, show up others and embarrass them. bugs me.

    • Chipower9 said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:21 am

      “Well what is going to happen when the child becomes an adult in the real world, where people can be cruel in a whole new way?” Well, in today’s society, what happens often is the victim/one being bullied get’s themself a gun and takes justice into their own hands.

      • snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:39 am

        Maybe Martin figured Incognito might go over the edge at some point into violence, and figured he’d get outta there before that happened…

      • willedav said, on November 5, 2013 at 11:15 am

        or worse, the victims kills themselves like that young girl who jumped off tower did. when faced with stuff from enemies at school and elsewhere like, “No one likes you. drink bleach and die”, they feel they have no avenue to escape and just be themselves, while the perps parents are on that big river in Egypt and glossing over it.

      • Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2013 at 12:59 pm

        ah, but the bully also tries to become an authority figure, cop, sheriff, security guard, where they can continue to be bullies.

    • Bozo said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:57 am

      I don’t think that bully’s will cease to exist or that teasing will stop, but if the culture has changed by the time the child is an adult, maybe threats of someone wanting to shit in his mouth won’t be happening.

  15. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:54 am

    I had a high school basketball coach that was abusive. To only certain players, including me. Not much I could do about it as a kid, at least then. Nowadays, he probably couldn’t get away with it. Looking back, the guy clearly had personal issues. There is discipline and coaching, and then there is repeated verbal and psychological abuse for the sake of it, the enjoyment of it. I was a pretty stoic kid and took it, didn’t fight back. Maybe he took that as a sign of weakness and just kept pouring it on. That’s one reason why I don’t take kindly to people seeing some kind of weakness or lack of effort in body language with Brandon Belt. It can be wildly misconstrued. I was a pretty decent player, too. I only played one year — I would have played more, but for that idiot. Who wants to be verbally brutalized every day for 5 months for no reason, especially at 16 years old? Guy died at a fairly early age. I didn’t grieve. He didn’t force me to buy him a jet ski, I’ll give him that…

  16. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Where is the NFLPA? Who are they going to support? Incognito will have a beef of some sort with the team for his suspension. Martin will want support from the union for his case about the bullying. The union seems to be in a tight space on this one, because it knows this kind of crap is pervasive…

  17. twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:43 am

    I know that Pawlie is too modest to do this himself- here’s a link to a video of Pawlie discussing his book of poetry about the Syracuse neighborhood Tipperary Hill, a “personal meditation on memory, identity, character, and place.”
    http://tinyurl.com/mck55lf

    It’s available at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on November 5, 2013 at 1:44 pm

      I can neither run nor hide. (Tnx.)

      • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 3:57 pm

        Hey, I didn’t tell them about the “incident” at Burnet Park with the married….uh, well, it was nothing really…

    • Chipower9 said, on November 6, 2013 at 9:00 am

      Thanks for sharing, Michael. And very cool props to you Pawlie (looking quite dapper with the bow tie…Billy would be proud…you just need the shit-kickers to match up fully with him). 😉

  18. Chipower9 said, on November 5, 2013 at 10:58 am

    I get it that the rookie hazing shit goes on, and it will continue to go on after this is over. Regardless, the tweets and voicemails go to show what a total fuckwad (and dumbass) Incognito is.

    I can get the having the rookies carry the “My Little Pony” pink backpacks, and picking-up the tab for dinner (one-time occasion), but this shit is outlandish. I hope this is the exception and not the norm.

    What a piece of shit…I won’t even give him the benefit of calling him inhuman, as he should not be considered a “human being.”

    I am a firm believer in Karma…and Incognito will get his…

  19. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 11:24 am

    From a practical standpoint, if you’re a coaching staff, how can you let this kind of crap go on in your lockerroom, where guys on the OLine during the season are openly dissing and verbally taunting and baiting one of their own OLinemen? The OLine is probably the key group of players that you want as cohesive and communicative as possible, else your QB is getting pounded constantly under a pile of 300 lb. dudes like Justin Smith. I don’t get it…

    • Flavor said, on November 5, 2013 at 12:09 pm

      This is what I don’t get. The OL are the dudes holding hands to the line. If Martin missed a block what did Incognito say in the huddle? And how could that ever be a part of how cohesive that unit is supposed to be?

  20. twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Denny and Chuck will be receiving their prizes today. In the event that either of them needs my help, I have a recording on my answering machine for today that says “Computer man no speak any language”…

  21. Alleykat said, on November 5, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Lawerene Jackson a former NFL DE said:
    “Hate is a strong word I don’t care to use, but when it comes to Incognito it is appropriate “.
    He is the type of guy you just want to go up to and spit in his face!!!

  22. Alleykat said, on November 5, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    Not suprised, the name “Richie Incognito”,is really “Dick in Desquise”

  23. SanDawg said, on November 5, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Congrats to Pawlie on the well-deserved honors coming in!
    Just finished re-reading “Ball Four” a couple of days ago. I first read it when I was maybe 13 or so and it was enjoyable to read it again as an adult. This edition included the “Ball 5” edition, which wasn’t as entertaining as I expected. He did talk a bit about the game where he beat the Giants in his comeback in ’78. I remember how pissed the Giants were in the paper the next day after that loss—and he touched on that as well.
    @ Chuck—glad you saw Mattie and were able to find a grill to fire up. If you haven’t any magic words to lay on him to get him motivated to get on with the next phase of his life—feel free to share them!
    I’n holding out hope the Giants find a way to bring back Voggy. And I’m not happy to hear that The Chicken (Fred Stanley) abruptly resigned. Who’s next to go—Dick Tidrow?? I love that we have had a few fringe American Leaguers from my youth on our payroll the past several years.

    • Macdog said, on November 5, 2013 at 9:09 pm

      Oh man, SD, I completely forgot about that Bouton game. Yet another low point in Giants 70s fandom. Maybe that’s what winning two World Series has done — slowly eradicate the bad memories from all those dreadful seasons.

  24. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Maybe with a new Farm director, the Giants can internally develop one major league outfielder in the next decade…

    • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 3:23 pm

      Why is it a BFD? They’ve won two World Series with Burrell, Torres, Ross, RoHAND, Pagan, Pence,Blanco… and Nate. They’ve developed pitchers, an MVP catcher, the Brandons, and Pablo.
      As to the outfielders, I think that list covers it- they don’t put much stock in drafting outfielders- probably because they are maybe the most unpredictable to rate.
      Here are the first round outfielders taken in the 2009 draft: Dustin Ackley,Donavan Tate,A. J. Pollock,Jared Mitchell, Mike Trout, Reymond Fuentes,Slade Heathcott,Brett Jackson,Tim Wheeler…obviously Trout jumps out but there isn’t a single player among the rest who has amounted to anything. Ackley is the only other major leaguer and he sucks. They all suck. And they were all 1st rounders drafted with high hopes—Peguero, Perez, and Kieshnick( sp ) are better than each and every one of them not named Trout. Drafting outfielders isn’t a crap shoot, it’s a, I dunno- a “shit shoot”?
      With that said, I think you’ll see Williamson in LF here by 2015. I know- you’ll believe it when you see it. I understand.

      • snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 5:31 pm

        It would be nice to develop even ONE, since they don’t cost much the first few years as a major leaguer. If they had, gawd forbid, even two of their own farm kids as outfielders, the Giants would not have to pay $90 + $40 million = $130 million for two outfielders, and not even know who the 3rd one is going to be as they head into 2014. Even a “shit shoot” should develop ONE outfielder in two decades…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 6:42 pm

        I don’t disagree about the lack of outfielders. My post about the 2009 draft was to demonstrate how tough it is-and those were all first round choices. Hell, even the Cards had to go get a couple of guys (Beltran, Holliday). Anyway, maybe I’ll be right for a change and Williamson will break the barrier…

  25. snarkk said, on November 5, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    Chuck, re: your earlier comment on Romanowski, I heard Romo say this afternoon that he was bullied by Haley, and that’s who Romo alleged to have taken out when he’d had enough of the rookie razzing. Wasn’t close to the level of hazing we’ve seen in this Incognito deal. I’d guess there’s some exaggeration all around by Romo. Even if Charles razzed him, Haley doesn’t seem to me to be the type or size that would let Romo get the better of him…

  26. blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    I think because we have such a great outfield legacy, with Mays, (both) Bonds, Ott, Maddox, Matthews, etc., that we expect the organization to produce outstanding outfielders for the parent club. Personally, I could give a rat’s ass about the minutia of whether we have great pitchers, infielders, and/or a combination of the aforementioned to win baseball World Series. I am all about winning and we have won 2 of those babies in a relatively short time. Fuck, I don’t even know how to define or compare “short time” with what most of us went through for upwards of 50 plus years waiting and waiting for a championship.

    Frankly, I am down with however the Giants brain trust does it. They have earned (nearly . . . hehehe) a life time pass in my mind.

  27. Flavor said, on November 5, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    of course, now the real shit starts to drip out. This story is gonna be like an onion–the more you peel it back, the more it stinks.
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-miami-dolphins-hazing-1106-20131105,0,1628986.story

    • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 6:52 pm

      Incognito was a leader on the team and coaches looked to him in that light? That tells all we need to know about the values that the team wanted to propagate. This is a guy with *serious* issues dating back more than a decade. It’s the old mob mentality with coaches and front office-
      “Do what you have to. I don’t wanna know”.

  28. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Twin, got the turntable. Thanks agina. Haven’t had time to play with it.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2013 at 7:34 pm

      Agina? Got to love these stupid fucking iPads and their autocorrect.

      • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 7:43 pm

        Geez, at first I thought you were calling me the “c ” word. You’re welcome, litoris.

  29. Del Mar Dennis (@DelMarDennis) said, on November 5, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    I got Twin’s computer earlier this afternoon but I think it’s busted.
    All I get is a brown screen that says, “UPS Ground.”

    • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2013 at 7:50 pm

      Did you boot it up? Wait- no no no- don’t kick it. Sheesh, you newbies. You don’t kick it when it won’t boot- you kick it when it freezes. Blue Screen- keyboard through the window. Here, this is how the pros do it

  30. willedav said, on November 6, 2013 at 8:31 am

    On the cbs baseball site is a column headlined by Heyman, the guy Loo said was always wrong, where he and 5 others predict where top 10 FAs wind up. One guy says Giants get Tanaka (“Yankees need him but SF will get him”) and two say they get Garza. One who said Garza would wind up elsewhere said he’d do better back in NL but AL teams will offer more $$$.
    I know both of these guy will cost $$$, but I’d bet the house they would give you better than Lincecum.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 9:23 am

      IMO the Giants are relying on Lincecum to be at least a #3 level starter. I think they should be thinking of him as a #4 at best.And I think they’re counting on Cain’s 2013 to be an outlier and not a sign of decline( there are a lot of pitches in Matt’s arm). I hope I’m wrong that they seem to be looking at the Arroyo/Nolasco types and not the front end of the rotation pitchers. My best guess is that they get Arroyo and let Vogelsong( if they strike a new deal), Petit, Surkamp, and maybe Escobar vie for the 5. In which case they better be right about Cain and Lincecum or we’ll be fighting it out with the Abominable Snowmen again.

      • snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 10:09 am

        The Cain contract in its out years may end up looking like the Zito contract…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 10:41 am

        But hey, then we can hope he’ll pitch a bitchin’ postseason game in 2017…

      • snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 10:48 am

        I hope it’s just the “out” years, and not the “mid” years…

  31. willedav said, on November 6, 2013 at 9:09 am

    A different way to look at b-ball stats–my old coach used to post a plus points chart in locker room day after a game. Plus point were made FG, made FT, rebound steal block assist and something he called recovery for picking up a loose ball, causing a jump, etc. Minuses were missed FT, turnovers and fouls. Not perfect, but for a guy that only got in at garbage time, couple plus pts meant a lot.
    So… for Kings last night, Cousins total for above was 8. His counterpart at C, Horford had 24. 8? in 29 minutes? He shot 2 FTs the whole night, and had 5 fouls vs. 6 rebounds. Malone is gonna need way more than that out of his $$$$million dollar guy. and the contract thing: when push comes to shove/him or me, as it inevitably will, who stays/leaves? I don’t see this working out well for anyone.

  32. Chipower9 said, on November 6, 2013 at 9:17 am

    I don’t follow Heyman that much…but I sure as hell hope he is right on the Tanaka thing.

    Check out this short YouTube video of him. His shit is NASTY….great movement. His splitter is unreal…

  33. snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 10:14 am

    I’ve read the posting fee alone for Tanaka will be $60M. Add another $60M on top for his deal. Are the Giants willing to add another Cain deal to the “budget”? And, I believe the posting fee is all up front. Nothing in the current Giants MO says that kind of spending will happen for a guy who hasn’t pitched one AB in MLB. If they do it, then that would be a clear shot across the bow of the SS Dodgers…

    • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 12:29 pm

      Well, with the Bums and the Yanks seen to be major bidders for Tanaka, Sabean might ask Charles Johnson to forego the monthly delivery from the Caviar House & Prunier for 2014 and pony up the posting fee..

  34. twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Heyman is no better or worse than the vast majority of baseball writers. He seems to be disliked here more than the most because of a perception that he hates the Giants. When the topic about the worst/most annoying/etc. baseball fans came up, I browsed about and SF fans were almost always among the most disliked. The consensus: we’re whiners. And it’s not possible to refute that. We’re world class whiners. Then there’s the Charddonai sipping charge. That one is totally unfounded. There may be a few Chardbonnay sippers ( see, we can’t even spell Charrddonnay right without an online dictionary at hand). Anyway, we’re no different than other fans in what we sip during games- it’s half pints of LIKKER. Half pints being the only size we can smuggle in in between our wive’s breasts. And I’ll add this- if your wife can snuggle a fifth in there and it stays put, keep her… OK, I’m off topic, albeit delightfully so- then there’s the blackberry thing- we have them there- no self respecting Giants’ fan would be caught dead with a fucking blackberry- Z10, Z30, Z1,000,000- Blackberry is dead. In fact, yapping on any phone during the game is just soooooooooooooo passé. Unless you suspect that your uncle may be calling from a downed jetliner, the phone stays in your holster.
    So to recap- we’re whiners but we’re just as inebriated as Philly fans and we KNOW phones. Nobody knows phones like we do. Ahh- mine is vibrating- there’s that, too..

  35. snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 10:22 am

    OK, so the Miami media outlets now report that the Miami coaching staff ASKED Incognito to “toughen up” Martin. If true, the Miami head coach conveniently left out that little tidbit of info in his presser the other day. Whether they knew the crazy, over the top stuff he was doing to accomplish the task is yet to be discovered. Plus, it seems none of the Miami players are willing to publicly back up Martin, in fact some of the black players are backing up Incognito in this, basically saying they felt Incognito was more black and one of their own than Martin — who is mixed race. Bizarro world going on right now in that organization. Could it be that other NFL teams are this dysfunctional, but we just never see it?…

    • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 11:16 am

      I commented on this a little bit last night- they say that Incognito was a leader on the team, that, as you say, he was asked by the coach(es) to toughen up Martin. Fucking Richie Incognito has been a known outta control wacko since his college days and probably as far back as inception. That he was considered a leader and a guy that could be trusted with anything except the weekly HGH delivery just shows the type of character the Miami people admired in a player. And obviously Miami is not the only team with that kind of thinking. Those recordings of then NO defensive coordinator Greg Williams were chilling- taking out Crabtree’s ACL, cash money to incapacitate Alex Smith, head hits on Gore..
      Then there’s the utterly contemptible denials of the long term damage from concussions- and the NFL’s culpability in the often disastrous life altering and sometimes fatal issues that players suffered as a result of the league’s inaction in the face of inarguable proof of the long term damage that brain injuries often cause.
      But alas, the Incognito “situation” will be dealt with as an abberration and life will go on as it is now in “It’s a Wonderful Life Unless You’re One Of The Forty Five Hundred”…and counting..

    • snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 11:32 am

      There’s obviously been a lot of ugly stuff going on in that Miami organization at least recently. It stinks to us outsiders when it comes to light. But, it doesn’t come to light much, and apparently some of these teams treat this kind of whacko behavior as NFL normal or near normal. I wonder if the local Miami media “insiders” knew all this when it was happening, and didn’t make a peep until Martin went AWOL and they then felt free to go with it. I wouldn’t be surprised at that. The NFL is making billions off the broken bodies of its players, but at least they get paid. IMO, the major colllege football game and NCAA is more rotten. They exploit their players, get billions, and the players get squat for their broken bodies and concussions. The “free education” argument IMO is laughable for the bulk of the players, most of whom don’t belong in a college classroom, or if they actually go, are directed into bullshit classes. Another day for that whole rant, with I’m sad to say, Cal under Tedford being one of the big violators…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 11:53 am

        Well, take a peek at my 1:39 on the last thread, if you care to. The NFL/College/”student/athlete” triangle is a total fraud. i.e., I agree with you.

  36. Chipower9 said, on November 6, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    From snarkk’s comment: “Plus, it seems none of the Miami players are willing to publicly back up Martin, in fact some of the black players are backing up Incognito in this, basically saying they felt Incognito was more black and one of their own than Martin — who is mixed race.”

    WTF…this is NOT a race issue (or at least it did not appear to be so at first). This is about bullying and hazing…and treating a fellow human with respect (or not if your the dickhead Incognito). I hope Incognito and the Miami coaching staff go down in flames…fuck them.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 1:53 pm

      I’m sure it’s a ‘pussy’ issue- which transcends any racial concerns. Black or white, being a MAN- a manly man, a studly man, a REAL MAN, is what the deal is. Incognito, as can be shown from the Miami player’s reactions and his recognition as a leader, is that REAL MAN….and Martin, for whatever reasons, seems to have been thought of as a pussy, a weirdo. Just think of how placekickers are generally thought of, Martin was a fat pussy placekicker who needed to be toughened up by the clubhouse leader- a “manly” pyschopath. Ferchrissakes, Romanowski is a frigging commentator on Comcast- he should be in jail. What this should teach us, as much as anything, is that despite the phony PR hue and cry condemning Incognito- his kind of man is the Face of the NFL…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 2:11 pm

        Well, I’m Mr. Blabbermouth the last couple days. I’ll give you guys a break for a bit. See ya in a minute or two 😉

    • snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 6:54 pm

      Well, Chi, I dunno if it’s partly a race issue, but I’m only repeating what I’ve heard today. Some of the Miami black players are reported backing Incognito because he’s felt to be more “black” than Martin, so there’s more rapport with him, not Martin. Some of it apparently is coming out of the fact that Martin is from an upper class upbringing and is out of Stanford, therefore even though he’s of mixed race, the class thing somehow trumps the fact that Incognito (not upper class) is a putz. I can’t explain how that all works or whether it makes any sense (doesn’t to me), it’s just what I’ve heard today. Also, I heard a report today that Martin, several months ago, played the now infamous, vulgar/racial/threatening voicemail to some of his player colleagues, and laughed about it. For what that report is worth, there it is. What I do get out of all this is that it’s one of the craziest, convoluted sports stories to come out in a long time…

  37. Nipper said, on November 6, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    When do pitchers and catchers report? I’m tired of football and refuse to worry about the Warriors. The Sharks bore me. What’s a guy to do? Women’s volleyball…?

    • Irish Kevin said, on November 6, 2013 at 4:01 pm

      well Nipper you could help me out and worry about the Sacramento Kings!

    • snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 6:59 pm

      Women’s volleyball does have its ups and downs…

  38. sinceseventy8 said, on November 6, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    I was bullied early on in life in middle school, never beaten to a pulp or anything but picked on. Too skinny, pizza face, too quiet, whatever. It never really got to me for one reason – I could go home & everything was ok. That’s all that really mattered back then, I could take the being picked on. I have great parents, not everyone has that luxury. My Dad is a WWII vet & just turned 90, he hates violence & taught me that it was wrong. But he did teach me there is a line that people can’t cross, as I got older I learned how to take that advice. My Mom was a nurse. Both retired. Bullies are the most insecure people among us. In many ways the opposite of the people they pick on but in many ways a lot the same, they just deal with things differently. I think about those days once in a while & wonder how those guys that bullied me are doing. Hopefully they grew up, I know I did – in more way than one.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm

      Such a great post, 78. It’s my personal POTD.

    • sinceseventy8 said, on November 6, 2013 at 5:56 pm

      Thank you – that means a lot.

  39. twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    I just saw that the Seatttle interview was the first for Wotus since 2006- when the Giants hired Bochy and the Padres chose Black. No problem there, they’re both excellent managers. But no interviews in 6 years? That’s a disgrace.

    • snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 7:01 pm

      With the hiring-the-most-recent-retired-player-preferably-catcher trend going on, I think Wotus has pretty much no shot at any managing jobs in the foreseeable future. He can hope Bochy decides immediately to go fishing off Cabo as his next career, but that’s probably a long shot…

  40. snarkk said, on November 6, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Mrs. snarkk and I frequently ask the snarkettes if they are being bullied, or if THEY are bullying someone. We make a kind of fun game out of it, but keep it in front of us. We keep track as best we can of their use of their laptops and the older one’s iPhone (she was the last of her friends to get one). The older one has a contract with us on parameters of her phone use, and we’re sticking with it. A year and a half ago, a freshman girl in one of the local high schools, after some bullying and some kind of fall out with a pseudo boyfriend, figured her life was done, sat on the train tracks 1/4 mile from the school and waited for the next freight. The conductor couldn’t stop in time, and that was that for a 14 year old. Gone. This bullying stuff is just all over the place, and the girls can be particularly vicious…

  41. twinfan1 said, on November 6, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    I don’t remember much bullying when I was growing up. I guess the closest was my sister. But she was the oldest and bullying the younger siblings is part of the job description for older sisters. Brother Bill and I did try to get her and get her good, though. There was a creek that ran through the woods that was part of our yard and we had little overnight “camping trips”. This was our pre-teen years. Well, the evil plot Bill and I cooked up was to propose a wienie roast for the camp dinner in what we were sure would be the end of the bullying forever. Bill had caught a plump salamander that he had pre-roasted and I slipped into Sharen’s bun while Bill created some sort of diversion. It almost worked. She actually had the bun to open mouth- the anticipation we felt was like none we would ever have for as long as we lived- which would have been about 2 minutes if Sharen had bit into the juicy morsel. Instead, she looked down- why? why? why? and let out a blood curdling scream that would do Fay Wray proud. After much commotion and some big time fleeing action from the boys, our last camping trip with Sis ended. As did any activity outside of the house for a month. Grounded!
    Postnote- she’s 68 now- and when she’s here- I do as she says.

  42. paulinasia said, on November 6, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    Craig, if you’re ever compiling a “best of ___” (fill in the blank with the name of any particular Flapper) list, look no further than this thread for Michael. Quite the entertaining, upbeat, free-flowing string of Twinisms, all day long. Good stuff, Michael. 🙂

    • twinfan1 said, on November 7, 2013 at 11:32 am

      Thank you, Paul. So how are you doing? You had gone through some troubling times. I hope it’s better now. You know that you can always talk to me.
      michael.scott2@mchsi.com


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