A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Hot Stove Stuff on a Broken Back Burner Plus the Myth of *failing to execute*

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 11, 2013

I just read that the Giants are *open* to trading for starting pitching which is a little like me saying I’m open to the idea of buying a 5 million dollar house as long as the owner is willing to take 10K for it. We are simply not good trading partners. Our most desirable (only?) trade chips that would/could bring anything mlb ready/coveted are Panda, Belt, Romo and Crick. And while I would jizz in my pants if I hear that we traded Crick et al for David Price, I’m not holding my breath. Sabes don’t roll that way. Panda’s stock is low and trading Belt just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me unless someone sends us something of huge value and I just don’t think the market is that for Belt. Of course, I’d be happy to be proven wrong. And Romo, clearly a top 7 or 8 MLB closer, is still a closer and it’s rare that a top closer ends up getting traded.  I think most teams are of the opinion that you can plug a lot of guys into the closer role so why pay for it?

So I am not optimistic that a trade for a mlb ready starting pitcher is forthcoming—there are just too many other teams who have the same need who will pay more than we will.


PET PEEVE–NON BASEBALL VARIETY: I am sick to death of football players using the excuse of “we just failed to execute” as the reason for losing. You mean you failed to execute those plays you ran in practice at half speed sometimes without contact? Shocking that it didn’t go down in the game like it went down in practice! Just call it like it is: you either got beat by a better team, or luck or a better game plan or better scheme. Those are the only reasons. “Failing to execute” is the puss-way out of answering a question from the press. And no one *pusses* his way out more often than our own Colin Kaepernick. Same with Harbs. As far as their interviews go, I’ve got no use for either of them……

But the Niners will be fine as soon as they find some legit NFL receivers. We don’t have a single guy who can consistently beat a cornerback 1:1 (especially deep). Our one long threat chance yesterday (a perfect throw from Kap that was dropped by *rookie*) went to a tight end. If sending the slow, white tight end deep is your deep threat, the rest of the receivers should just quit the game………

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  1. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Well, maybe we could try the ole Splash trade strategy- a whole bunch of guys we don’t want for one guy we do want. We’ve all seen those trades- Pill, Bond, Edlefsen, Loux, and Carter Jurica for Price. Not good enough? Damn, you drive a hard bargain- OK, OK- I’ll throw in Mitch Lively…

    • Flavor said, on November 11, 2013 at 3:27 pm

      I give Sabes credit, he pawned off Alderson for Glass Sanchez and Voggy for Schmidt. And Torres for Pagan was a coup.
      So maybe he’s got another one of those up his sleeve…..

      • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2013 at 4:17 pm

        Culberson for Scooter and Joseph, Rosin, and Nate for Pence wasn’t too shabby, either…
        As to the “failed to execute”, I agree. “I sucked” works for me… the wide outs- wide receivers are the deepest group in every draft. They should invite a shitload of them for airfare and 3 squares and try them out. But why doesn’t Harbaugh like throwing to the backs? I know they don’t want to overwork Gore but he’s a terrific receiver. They could get match up mismatches if they spread him out occasionally. And James and Hunter were used in college- not a lot, but enough to show they can catch the ball. That seems to be a neglected offensive weaopon- especially with the WR shortage..

      • Flavor said, on November 11, 2013 at 4:46 pm

        what sucked was the timing of the Crabby injury. Had it happened earlier they could have targeted a WR in the draft. For instance, Keenan Allen had to have been on their board and they could have taken him instead of the tight end who bisqueted the long bomb perfect throw yesterday……

      • snarkk said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:51 pm

        Being a Cal guy, I was on Chuck’s blog before the draft saying Baalke should draft Keenan Allen. Size, speed, hands. I’d seen him play live 4 or 5 times, if he could make his half-brother look good throwing, you know he was good. Of course Baalke ignored my advice. Now, Allen is looking like a prime time receiver; meanwhile the Niners are still jacking off to Kyle Williams. Kyle Williams or Keenan Allen? Your choice…

  2. Flavor said, on November 11, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    This McCann nonsense has to end. Baggs did one of his pro/con things on him today. Left out as a *con* is that this dude has hit around around .240 over his last 2 seasons (795 at bats). I haven’t checked his BABIP yet but .240 over 2 full seasons is not *hundred million dollar+ worthy*. Especially to play first base (a place he’s never played).
    End the madness…..

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:52 pm


      • Chipower9 said, on November 13, 2013 at 3:28 pm

        I third the motion to throw the bum out on his fucking ear…

  3. Alleykat said, on November 11, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    The least Harbaugh should of done after losing Davis was to get LMJ in there in the slot.Dude is the fastest player in the team ferchrissakes.
    Boldin is only a possession reciever and with Davis out,Carolina could easily double him with no other threat.Its ridiculous, how easy teams can shut down our pathetic passing offense.

    • Flavor said, on November 11, 2013 at 4:47 pm

      LMJ sucks, he’s another wasted draft pick.

    • Flavor said, on November 11, 2013 at 4:49 pm

      well, our receivers suck. Boldin’s ok, if you can scheme him open. But P-Manning wouldn’t have thrown for 200 yards yesterday vs Carolina with the motley crew the Niners have running around out there……

  4. Flavor said, on November 11, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    What was Mike James? A 6th rd pick this year? That beats the 2nd round wasted pick of LaMichael 2 years ago.
    Harb’s and Baalke have some serious hit and misses in the draft

  5. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    I’m more on the get-rid-of-Roman train. I’ve never seen a less imaginative passing game since the Jimmy-Hat days. We threw deep ONCE. In the 4th quarter. We threw ONE slant. In the 4th quarter. They NEVER speed up the offensive tempo. It’s all too methodical, and every play uses up the entire play clock. And then some. 98& of the passing plays are 8 yard outs. There is no read and react.No hot reads. It’s all 5 step drop, methodical plays that we don’t block forn.

    For all the talk of this sophisticated offense, it is really boring.

  6. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    Drafting WRs for the 49ers is like the Giants drafting OFers. A black hole of futility…

    • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm

      I loved Keenan Allen in the draft. Shit, they shoulda kept Lavelle Hawkins.

      • Flavor said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:11 pm

        why should the Niners throw deep? The db’s are painted on to the backs of our shitty WR’s. And the only guy they tried to hook up with long was the rookie back up tight end? That tells you all you need to know about our receivers……

      • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2013 at 8:41 pm

        Because if you never do it, the field defended gets much smaller. Fuck it. 3rd and long, throw a 50 yard pick. It’s just like a punt. You may get a PI call.

        The point being if you never show it, you can play the WRs very tight. Think that’s happening now? This was Nolan’s and Singletary’s problem.

  7. TedSpe said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    And while I would jizz in my pants if I hear that we traded Crick et al for David Price, I’m not holding my breath
    Well, that just painted a picture I wish I hadn’t seen

    • Irish Kevin said, on November 12, 2013 at 10:28 am

      Flave needs to put the thumbs up, thumbs down on peoples posts, that was definitely a thumbs up!! ha ha ha

  8. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    This might be heresy, but one can’t put it all on Roman- for one thing, Harbaugh should be overseeing everything on offense- and CK looks befuddled against good defenses. And no- I’m not wanting #11. He’s where he belongs and so is CK- Colin took the league by storm but teams adjust- he’ll figure it out. They didn’t do him any favors by not bringing in a vet to back him up and provide some advice. And they have to set him free, he seems to be under wraps. Where’s the pistol? Have I missed it or are they abandoning it?

    • tedspe said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:33 pm

      Where’s the pistol? You mean they used to shoot guys what had bad games?

  9. tedspe said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    Good evening, gentlemen(?),
    I apologize for my truancy as of late. Busy at work, arguing with Federal regulators who literally called me “inadecquate” to the point of considering a new occupation. Plus a Halloween play, 3 shows a night, that completely drained me. But after a week or so I realized “Holy shit!! I haven’t been to The Flap in, like, forever!!??”
    So I’m back to annoy you one and all once again. And just to remind you what an annoying S.O.B. i can be, allow me to share the following:

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:54 pm

      Looks like my Netflix next choice has been decided…

      • tedspe said, on November 11, 2013 at 8:09 pm

        Sorry, snarkk. For reasons I don’t understand, not available yet. I’ve been waiting a year for this bad boy (girl?)

    • chipower9 said, on November 13, 2013 at 3:36 pm

      Zombies. T & A…more T & A… bring it one.

      Good to see you on the Flap, Ted.

  10. Del Mar Dennis (@DelMarDennis) said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Guess who just made his first comment using his new Twin Computer? This thing is juiced. It’s like I replaced my old Johnnie LeMaster computer with the new Barry Bonds model. 😀

    • tedspe said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:35 pm

      And people say steroids are bad for you. Sheesh

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:48 pm

      About time. I was about to send Igor to pick it up- seriously, I’m delighted that you have it up and running and that it pleases you. Enjoy.

  11. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Nice to see you and anytime you want to bring a Zoomboobykins along with you, by all means, please do so.

    • tedspe said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:36 pm

      Always a pleasure. How’ya doing, twin?

      • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:51 pm

        Take a peek at my blog. By and large, real good. You? It sounds like it’s been hectic.

      • tedspe said, on November 11, 2013 at 7:54 pm

        I’ll do that.
        Yeah, I’m having a lot of first world problems so it’s a little disingenuous to bitch. But still—ain’t fun

  12. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Night Ted, night all.

    • tedspe said, on November 11, 2013 at 8:53 pm

      Night, twin

  13. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    At least Lavelle Hawkins had speed. I don’t understand why they cut him. And I simply do not understand how inept this passing game is. TB has shitty WRs and they went deep numerous times tonight.

    This offense is playing not to lose. They stopped running after the Hunter fumble, and everything was 6 yard outs. If you don’t at least try to go deep the field you defend gets small. FUCK IT. Throw it deep just to show that you can do it. If you are sofa king scared to do it, overthrow it by 10 yards. Thirty five 8 yard outs aren’t going to work when you KNOW the offense is not going to throw deep.

    Granted you have to have some time to throw deep, but EVERY pass play takes 5 seconds to develop. One slant. One deep ball. Brilliant. This shit is looking just like the Jimmy hat offense. The Hostler offense before him. Boring. Stop the run, stop the Niners.

    3rd down conversions are the big indicator of ineptitude. Look at the 3 losses and you have 9-41 in 3rd down conversions.

  14. snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Braves moving to a new stadium in a few years. They can lose playoffs in the new one, too…

    • Nipper said, on November 12, 2013 at 1:44 am

      I thought they were called “ballparks.” Damn I’m behind the times. No smart phone, no fancy computer how am I going to keep up with Dennis?

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 12, 2013 at 9:59 am

      Looks like the taxpayers of Georgia will be fleeced again.

  15. Macdog said, on November 12, 2013 at 8:38 am

    Looks like Marlon Byrd is signing a 2-year deal with the Phillies, the team that originally drafted him.

  16. salty said, on November 12, 2013 at 9:09 am

    According to Schulman, no to Tanaka and any pitcher costing them their 1st rnd pick.
    Amen to that.

  17. Nipper said, on November 12, 2013 at 9:34 am

    I agree with Flavor…….No to pusses!

  18. Bozo said, on November 12, 2013 at 9:45 am

    MLB Trade Rumors – Giants.
    Hudson didn’t like the Braves offer and is now willing to move across the country to pitch for the right team.
    Gammons says the Giants are getting a lot of calls on Panda.
    Giants interested in Hudson or Haren at a 1 year deal with $s higher then what you’d expect.


    • snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 10:38 am

      So, are the Giants more willing to give up Panda for a pitcher than give up more money and a pick for an unknown youngster that may never amount to anything?…

    • twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 11:13 am

      The Giants are getting a lot of calls on Panda but have not shown a willingness to trade him-for one of the reasons I’ve given- they don’t have a suitable replacement.
      The reason they’re looking to bow out of the Tanaka bidding is said to be that only the team that wins the posting fee war will be able to negotiate with him. There had been a proposal to allow the top 3 negotiate.
      A writer at BP had written a piece saying that Ellsbury would be our best acquistion, now Heyman is reporting that the team is concerned about Pagan’s leg injuries and might be amenableb to moving him to LF and taking a look at Ellsbury or trading for Span. Heyman also threw Ubaldo, Garza, and Santana into the pitcher pool- a deep pool now.
      Bottom line-a lot of misdirection and flat out lunacy out there. The latest word: the Giants are kicking the tires on 23 outfielders, 34 pitchers, and 11 utility infielders… and that’s just Heyman’s list…

      • snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 11:19 am

        Well, duh, yeah they don’t have a replacement for Panda. Like no replacements ready down below for virtually every position…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 11:46 am

        No need for the “duh” comment directed at me. There’s not much anywhere that replaces without downgrading third base – there are 10 FA third basemen by my count- all of them are downgrades. And sorry, Kat- Matt is a downgrade- now and forever.

  19. Bozo said, on November 12, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Putting a rest to Brian McCann – from Fox.
    Giants fans shouldn’t bother sketching Opening Day lineups with free agent Brian McCann at catcher and icon Buster Posey at first base. Giants assistant GM Bobby Evans told me Monday that Posey moving from catcher to first base on a full-time basis is “not in the discussion.”

    Hey, what if they put McCann at first? Sorry Flav, I couldn’t help it.

    • snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 10:43 am

      Of course moving Posey to first is in their discussions, or to third. Given their hitting issues, everything should be in the discussion…

    • twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 12:17 pm

      Let’s say they move Posey to first, I presume that moves Belt to left. And who catches? Sanchez, McCann, who? If one looks at it- there’s no upside to the moves- we get defensive downgrades at first and left field while maintaining the offense from Posey and Belt. And the positional offensive upgrade in LF (from Blanco/Torres) would be more than offset by the positional downgrade offensively regardless of who catches. Bottom line- overall a switch as outlined would hurt the team defensively while providing no net gain offensively.

      • chipower9 said, on November 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm

        You nailed it in my book…I agree.

    • Bozo said, on November 12, 2013 at 1:04 pm

      I still say, we could solve many positional problems by just trading Posey. Short and long term, IMO.

  20. blade3colorado said, on November 12, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Byrd can contact his lab and get off the juice, now that he signed his 2 year $16 million dollar contract with the Phils. Frickin’ hilarious . . .

  21. snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 10:50 am

    The Giants may pick up a middle of the roader FA like Garza, because they can stomach the cheddar needed to sign him. Then, they’ll pick up an older, scrap heap guy like Hudson. That fills out the 5. Then, in ST, they’ll put Gaudin, Petit or whomever they can vacuum off the available list to audition for the #6 and the guy to go down to Fresno to stay in shape in case somebody blows out an elbow. That’s the MO. And, a less than stellar replacement or a complimentary guy to play LF, on the cheap. This is the Giants way. They’re not going to blow a wad for 2+ years on pitchers they don’t know when there are several youngsters down below that may be ready soon. Position player upgrades not valued enough to spend the cash necessary to get them in here, even though this team makes money like the US Mint. The “budget” will be up slightly over last year, in the end, with no big leap in roster quality; they’ll bank on the hope that the hitters will come around after a down year, and they’ll be able to compete for a WC birth…

    • blade3colorado said, on November 12, 2013 at 11:02 am

      By some experts, Garza is no “middle of the roader” and will be the 1st or 2nd top free agent pitching prospect and will command top coin to sign. However, I get your drift, Garza will probably do an epic fail if he stays in the American League. However, I have also heard that the Angels are so afraid that their pitching is putrid, they will make every effort to re-sign him.

      I go back and forth on Hudson. His ERA was really bad last season, but perhaps more important, his WHIP was very good. Consequently, he might squeeze out another good season, especially playing in the Phone Park. Same deal for Garza, i.e., the Phone Park is one of the few stadiums he would do well in. However, his situation is like the Denzel Washington scene in Training Day, “C’mon now, who wanna get paid? Who wanna get paid?” . . . and Garza will have his hand up.

      • snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 11:22 am

        ATT should improve any pitcher’s stat line from wherever he’s coming from. Unless you’re Armando. That’s a given…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 12:07 pm

        Steve, Hudson’s ERA was 3.97- not good, but second best compared to our starters. Garza wouldn’t be my choice for the second guy, but like I commented earlier- this is a no brainer for Sabean. It’s not possible to do anything but upgrade the rotation no matter which FAs he chooses.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 12, 2013 at 12:28 pm

        Yeah, his ERA has ballooned this year, compared to previous years . . . More interested in his WHIP, which is still quite good. Just his age gives me pause.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 11:39 am

      Snarkk, if they get Garza and Hudson that would surpass even the most optimistic scenarios. Fercrissakes, based on last year’s performances, they’d bump Cain and Timmy down.to the 4 and 5 starters. Do it. In fact, there may be a dozen or more FA agent pitchers who would upgrade what we got from every starter except MadBum. This is a no brainer winter for Sabean as far as starting pitchers. Arroyo, Burnett, Colon, Feldman,Garza,Haren,Hudson, Tanaka, Jimenez, Johnson. Kuroda, Maholm, Nolasco, ESantana, Vargas,Haren. That’s 16 guys, assign each a number. Without looking, pick any 2 of 16 numbers. Regardless of the numbers you pick, you’ve upgraded the rotation.

      • snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 12:25 pm

        Hudson helps, as long as the one year price is within reason. He’ll cost more than Voggy, but he’s better, assuming his injury is healed . Plus, the Giants improve by just not having to face him twice. Arroyo would be more than decent, he’d do well at ATT coming from the Cincy bandbox where he was an HR machine. He’d hopefully be a “young” 37. 2 years max on him, one preferable, but he’ll get two from somebody…

  22. snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 10:58 am

    These website columnists are great about FA talks. The agents must be ghost writing. Seems like 2 out of every 3 FAs are rumored to be going to the Yanks…

  23. snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Strange to me. After that weird presser with Colletti, Donny is back with LA, sans his best buddy as bench coach. I figured after that presser and firing of his buddy, he’d be cut. No extension, either, which he seemed to demand. Wallach now his bench coach. Meaning, IMO, Wallach is the next manager if there’s a hiccup outta the box next season.

    And Lloyd McClendon the new manager in Seattle? He’s been hitting coach in Detroit for half a decade, big deal. But, key is he’s got Pittsburgh ties with the Seattle GM. So, Wotus is denied again…

  24. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 12, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    I haven’t seen much mention of The Groper Gaudin. If The Giants are looking for cheap arms I would think he is on their radar.

  25. salty said, on November 12, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Don’t they need him to at least be there to continue to counsel Timmy?

  26. Flavor said, on November 12, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    I think we sign Voggy for 3 mil for a year. Giants figure the market will be light on him and they’re right. And after Timmy got 35, SF wasn’t interested in paying Vog’s 6. I dint fault them for wanting to save a few mil.
    After they re-sign Voggy (and if they don’t that probably guarantees a spot for Petit) I do think we sign one of the 16 listed by Twin, probably to a 2 year deal. I could see Haren as a good partner if he can pass his physical. If so, just a year deal for him.
    And Gaudin is anyone’s guess. It’s like he just disappeared. Carpel tunnel can linger but they sure shut him down early with what appeared to be no chance for a return late last season. I seem to remember comments from him that sounded like he wasn’t too happy about that. Maybe all the groppin’ got to the brass and they figured they could find another pitcher who could restrain himself from grabbin’ tits at the ER….

    • twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:17 pm

      I read somewhere that they’re likely to wait on Vogelsong until they’re done with their other dealings in the market. He may not like it but it’s business and he might be a last resort for filling out the rotation.

  27. salty said, on November 12, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    I get a tad worried when Sabean starts throwing around big bucks on FA’s. The track record is not good. In general, pricey FA’s disappoint.
    Stick to 1-2 yrs. Work a clever trade or sign another reclamation project ala Vogelsong and Gaudin. Kasmir and Ubaldo were both one a year ago. Maybe Petit can be that guy for a year.

    • salty said, on November 12, 2013 at 5:26 pm

      In short, buy undervalued instead of guys who value has soared because of one good season.

  28. twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    One day on Chuck’s blog and I have a raging headache. It’s not Chuck, it’s football itself I think. With baseball, a guy boots a grounder, he boots a grounder. If it’s football, there are 23 different takes on why one play didn’t work. It’s mind numbing. I think I’ll resume my absence there, to the delight of the regulars.

    • Flavor said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:14 pm

      and then a whole week has to go by before a new game’s conclusion replaces the game you’re arguing about. That’s the other thing about football– the debate is usually on who fucked up the last game and what could have been done differently. Guys get raked over the coals for an entire week before they have a chance at redemption. In baseball, a debate usually crops up after prolonged slumping by a player and each day there’s a new game for that slump to end.
      And there aren’t too many underlying numbers to debate in football (at least I haven’t seen anyone at Chuck’s blog bring up any of them). So it usually just comes down to debating a game plan or the call by the OC or just ragging on a guy for missing a play or two. That should get over with in about 2 or 3 back and forths. But it goes on forever with the football fans. So yeah I can see how that would get old real fast……

      • Flavor said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:15 pm

        and none of this is a critique of Chuck’s blog, it’s the only football blog I ever blog at (though I do admit to frequenting some of the Bleacher Report blogs for up-2-date injury news and general opinions of how non-Niner players are predicted to do for the upcoming week….

      • twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:30 pm

        I’m just as much a part of what pisses me off about football blogs as anyone else. I give myself a headache. And geez- take a look at all the ex-jocks and blondes at ESPN, Fox, the NFL channel. I’ve been ‘cover two-ed” to death if the zone blitz didn’t do me in first. I know that the game is more complicated than it used to be but at it’s core it’s still- keep ahold of the ball and hit them harder than they hit you…
        And who’s bringing the brewskis…

  29. snarkk said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    I like baseball far better than football. For the story lines, the ups and downs of a season, the slumps, the streaks, the poetry, the spring turning to summer. The daily ebb and flow, not the 6 day handwringing and mind numbing analysis in between Sundays. What I do dislike about baseball, and what I like about football, is football is more of a current meritocracy. No guaranteed contracts, though top players do get a good bit of a deal guaranteed now. Guaranteed deals in baseball screw things up. You turn to crap in the middle of your contract, you either hang around and fuckup the team, or you get cut and you still are a drag on the team budget until the deal is done. Football, you perform or you’re outta here ASAP, and the rest of your deal is terminated — like real life. The guaranteed baseball deals can totally F up an organization for several years, like Zito’s deal depressed the Giants ability to make moves. If Zito were Kyle Williams, he’d have gotten cut a year and half into his deal when he was a totally useless drag on the team. Onward and upward. There should be MORE guarantees or at least more safety net in football because of the high injury risk, yet it’s the other way around. To me, baseball would be more interesting with more in-season player moves if there were no or limited numbers of guaranteed deals…

    • Flavor said, on November 12, 2013 at 7:01 pm

      the guaranteed deals fueled (and continue to fuel) the steroid use. The money of those deals got too big to NOT take the risk. It is simple as pie to beat a test for steroids for all but the broke and the stupid. Guys quit taking them for health concerns, not fear of getting busted. Get the big guaranteed deal and quick the cycles. Bonus: nut sack enlarges to adult size again….

  30. PawlieKokonuts said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    Hi, TedSpe. I still can’t get out of my head that image of Magnus mopping your brow at the Public House on a hot Saturday in September.

    • Flavor said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:57 pm

      Haha, he didn’t even flinch when I did it. Classic moment.

  31. twinfan1 said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    Hi Pawlie and Good Night to all. “Cover Two” here means one blanket and one comforter…

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on November 12, 2013 at 7:27 pm

      Hi, Mike. In publishing, cover 2 is the opposite side of cover 1, the front of the book — for what THAT is worth.

  32. foothillsryan said, on November 13, 2013 at 6:42 am

    What good fun and plenty baseball talkin’ going on here! I’d jizz in my pants if the tanks weren’t empty. Give me a couple of days.

    I don’t think trading for pitching makes a lot of sense for the Giants when the home park should, in theory, lure pitchers (like Josh Johnson) on short deals.

    Hearing that the Giants have no plans to move Posey (as of yet), makes me want to put the breaks on any faux Belt trades. Sorry, no Starling Marte. And no Jose Bautista. Yeah what would you think of trading Belt for that guy?

    As for the big fellah at third, how about shipping him to the White Sox and getting back Gordon Beckham and some pitcher, then signing up Casey McGehee. Beckham has played third, drafted just after Posey. See if McGehee can do some of what he was doing in Japan.

    But alas, I think they’re going to hope for the best in Sandoval’s walk year.

    Sabean can’t afford ‘failure to execute’.

  33. twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Yeah, Foots- one of the joys of the Hot Stove League is answering the question : “Which player who won’t be traded would you trade for if he might/could/would/maybe be traded?” Don’t get me wrong, I love it. It beats that MLBTR category, “Minor Moves”- like this earth shaker from this morning- the Dodgers “have signed catcher J.C. Boscan to a minor-league deal and invited him to spring training, MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes tweets. Boscan hit .232/.297/.270 in 258 plate appearances for the Cubs’ Triple-A Iowa affiliate in 2013. He has 30 career big-league plate appearances.”
    OMG, Sabes is on the hot seat with *that* one!
    But let’s see here, Foots- Seeing “if McGehee can do some of what he was doing in Japan” is a safer bet than sticking with Sandoval in his walk year? But wait- there’s more! Gordon Beckham! Foots, the search for downgrades is at fever pitch with that gem..
    Let’s get this train back on the track, Foots. Now look, no partisan homie stuff, just honest answers: would you trade Belt for Kyle Skipworth ? Before you answer, remember this, it’s important- Kyle was drafted *just after Buster*!!!!


    • foothillsryan said, on November 13, 2013 at 1:49 pm

      Trade Belt for who?

      • twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 2:07 pm

        Is that a serious question?

      • twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 3:47 pm

        I was just joking around, playing off of your comment about Beckham. Kyle was the guy drafted in the spot immediately following Buster.

      • foothillsryan said, on November 13, 2013 at 4:58 pm

        That pick didn’t pan out too good for the fish. I know what you were doing. Beckham and a decent arm/ backend starter would not be a bad return for KFP48.

      • twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 5:11 pm

        Why in the world why they want Beckham? Certainly not to be the regular third baseman.

  34. zumiee said, on November 13, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Great line from Coach John McKay in the Tampa Bay Buccaneer’s first season. Their record was something like 0-10 at the time.
    During the postgame press conference after yet another loss-
    Reporter: “How do you feel about your team’s execution?”
    McKay: “I’m all for it.”

  35. zumiee said, on November 13, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Snarkk, I hear your point about sports contracts. The difference, though, is that the baseball players hang together and win their strikes, but the NFL players cave in on their strikes, especially the biggest one in ’87.

    • snarkk said, on November 13, 2013 at 10:37 am

      I agree, it’s union strength. Hey, the way the old contracts were with the reserve clause, that was wrong. Now, it’s gone way way too far on the other side. It makes no sense that one season into a a 5-year, $80 million deal with some pitcher, he tears a labrum or a rotator cuff, and he’s done, but you have to pay him the balance of the deal — there’s not even some method of making an injury settlement for less than the balance still due. Or, if he just loses it and can’t get anybody out two years into the deal– hey, you can’t cut him without still paying the whole contract. Such as the $22M the Dbacks had to pay Russ Ortiz when they cut him. It’s just nonsensical…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 11:20 am

        Forgotten in this is the control MLB owners have over their players in the first 6 years of their careers when the even the greatest players are routinely underpaid compared to lesser players with more “tenure”- and this during a period when their performance is often at it’s peak. Additionally, if there is to be a “exit stragegy” for owners when the player isn’t performing as anticipated, there should be an avenue for players to seek a better deal in the market when their performance is above what the contract has anticipated. And the guarantee is a measure of security and there is a dollar value in that security. Without it, the team would have to put up more upfront money.

      • snarkk said, on November 13, 2013 at 2:47 pm

        I agree with what you said, and the early years of minimum salary. Still, I think baseball would benefit from some way other than guaranteed deals for the guys that make it to the MLB level. It would help lower budget teams the most IMO, because if they are stuck with what turns into an albatross guaranteed deal (along the lines you said earlier of signing a star to keep butts in the seats), that team can’t just turn around and get somebody else like the Yanks and Rsox do when they screw up a signing. Those lower budget teams can be hosed for quite a while by a bad deal. Anyway, the MLBPA will never get rid of guaranteed deals now, so why not offer something like this:
        Increase the MLB roster sizes to 27 or to 30 or some such, but those last 2 to 5 spots over 25 are non-guaranteed players that can be released at will like NFL players. Their minimum deals are lower than the current minimums for guys on the 25, whose guaranteed status is unchanged. The extra spots are sort of like an NFL taxi/practice squad. That gives teams some flexibility with performance of the extra players, and gives the Union 60 to 300 more bodies at the MLB level…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 3:33 pm

        Well, I don’t disagree that there should be a better way- including a salary *botttom*. You’ve got some good ideas in there.

  36. Irish Kevin said, on November 13, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Ah, baseball or Football. I like them both. but if I had to choose one it would be Baseball. longer season, a game almost everyday. Football has changed so much since the Niners won all their SB’s. Salary capp is probably what hurt football the most. Now unless you can keep players healthy your team is probably not going to win a SB or go to the playoffs. And forget about using a Backup QB to take you all the way. There will never ever be another Dynasty in Football. Sad but true. If a team wins one every 10 years or so the league is happy. I would love to see Baseball put in a Hard salary capp. with penalties for going over. But that will never happen.

  37. twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 10:31 am

    The differences in how revenue is divided, salary cap vs. no salary cap, the difference in the number of players on the rosters… and many other factors contribute to the NFL structure favoring the owners and MLB favoring the players, as far as salaries are concerned. Simply put, it’s in the nature of the business that MLB owners award bigger contracts and guaranteed contracts to it’s players vs. the NFL structure where the owners have a more stable and guaranteed revenue before a game is even played. I believe that 80% of revenue is divided equally among the 32 NFL teams vs. 25% in MLB. So with MLB teams having a far less stable source of revenue, many teams rely on winning to generate revenue and without the restraint of a salary cap will award huge guaranteed contracts to “impact” players in the hopes of generating future revenue by virtue of regular playoff appearances. NFL owners don’t have that need due to the large guaranteed revenue and salary cap.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 12:07 pm

      This is all my opinion, of course, based on my understanding of these complicated matters. In any case, there is good and bad in how each league handles salaries for their talent. And although pro sports leagues enjoy many concessions from congress in how they conduct business, it’s still not kosher to void a contract because it’s not going as anticipated. The potential for abuse is staggering.

  38. snarkk said, on November 13, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    Former Raider and NFL announcer Todd Christensen dead at 57. Too young to go…

  39. sinceseventy8 said, on November 13, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    Christensen was definitely too young. Raiders were my first team for whatever reason. Was in a candy store with my parents, mid 70’s where they served sundaes in football helmets. My Dad asked what team did I want & I said the Raiders. He said what color are the helmets & I said green … wrong. Must have been thinking all Oakland teams wore green. So I got my sundae with the facemask & stickers that had to be applied at home. Putting on the stickers didn’t go so well from what I remember. Favorite player was Mark van Eeghen. I then fell in love with the Niners in the early 80’s & stuck with them for a decade. Admittedly, part of my Niners love was as an antithesis to my NY Giants fan father. Just at that age where if he said white I said black & if he said up I said down. Great games between those teams back then. Great times. I came around to the NYG eventually but still have an affinity for both Bay Area teams to this day. Not typical for a kid from Upstate NY.

  40. twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    I never liked the Raiders but I liked Todd, probably because he was so un-Raider like, and definitely not your prototypical TE. He really didn’t fit any typical profile. I enjoyed him as an announcer as well. 57, my goodness, that really is young. I feel sad and lucky at the same time when a man like Todd passes away before his time..

  41. Alleykat said, on November 13, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    I would compare Todd Christensen to Russ Francis.
    2 goofy guys that played the game different then most.
    Had their share of banging gals and partying to the Max as well.
    Both great TE for along time.
    RIP Todd.

  42. twinfan1 said, on November 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    No surprise- Scherzer and Kershaw win the CYs. Darvis and Iwakuma were 2nd and 3rd behind Scherzer. Wainwright and Jose Fernandez were 2nd and 3rd in the NL.

  43. TedSpe said, on November 13, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Hi, TedSpe. I still can’t get out of my head that image of Magnus mopping your brow at the Public House on a hot Saturday in September.

    Flavor said, on November 12, 2013 at 6:57 pm
    Haha, he didn’t even flinch when I did it. Classic moment

    Classic and yet true

  44. tedspe said, on November 13, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    Still a little upset the Giants aren’t pursuing that Japanese pitching dude.

  45. tedspe said, on November 13, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    Wowza. I was post #100 on this thread.
    That means I get the booby prize. And based on the low budget here, the booby prize ain’t the booby ya’ll been thinking a booby is what a booby prize should be. That being said, I like typing the word “booby”

    • Alleykat said, on November 13, 2013 at 10:39 pm

      Yeah clear Ted, as the booby. prize is Anna who the Giants figure on as there 5th 5tarter right now.

  46. foothillsryan said, on November 14, 2013 at 8:29 am

    This is for Michael/Twinfan:

    “why in the world would they want Beckham”

    I don’t know. He’s be a throw in, hole filler. I like him because I’m biased by watching him and Buster Posey duke it out for the NCAA homerun crown back in the day. I feel like there’s some pop in the bat that is latent, maybe some injuries. He’d be a good utility guy that can shift around the diamond. Maybe he finds a groove, he’s not that old.

    A hypothetical trade for Panda wouldn’t bring that much, so I suggest Beckham thrown in a with a back of rotation pitching prospect. Giants could use one of those right now. They have nobody to step in so they are going to burn some cash on an uninspiring FA for fifth starter.

    I think that covers it. Fire away!

    • twinfan1 said, on November 14, 2013 at 9:00 am

      Right spot.
      If they trade him they need a suitable replacment and they need more than “back of rotation pitching prospect”.Look, making hypothetical trade proposals is fine, but try making one that has even a remote possibilty of either happening or would make some sense. This doesn’t meet either criteria. It does nothing to address who who would play third and it brings us a utility infielder and “back of rotation pitching prospect”- two pieces that are readily available without giving up anybody. And if a trade of Panda wouldn’t bring much, they won’t make a trade. And your evaluation of the FA back of the rotation starters is absurdly negative- there are at least 10 or 12 who would be good 4′s or acceptable 3′s- and a few who have upsides as 2′s.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 14, 2013 at 9:36 am

      An example of a trade that *would* make sense (if the Cards were able to reach an agreement on a 2 or 3 year deal with Panda, and Garcia received a favorable health prognosis):
      Pablo and Surkamp for Freese and Jaimie Garcia. The Giants would also sign a FA starting pitcher and a utility infielder.

      • foothillsryan said, on November 14, 2013 at 11:12 am

        I could say this would never happen, but who knows.

      • twinfan1 said, on November 14, 2013 at 1:00 pm

        “that has even a remote possibilty of either happening or would make some sense.” If you’re going to try making light of what I say, try to get it right.
        It’s a trade that would make sense.

  47. blade3colorado said, on November 14, 2013 at 8:49 am

    One of the best Joe Posnanski columns I have ever read about Pete Rose (I still love the guy) . . . here is an excerpt (the link follows):

    “Obsessed. He would sit in the dugout when his team was at bat and chatter incessantly and calculate stats in his mind and and think about lines he could use with reporters after the game. He closely watched teammates and looked for ways to help them — every teammate, seemingly, has a story about advice Rose offered. To this day, Rose is still ticked off that Ken Griffey took the advice of Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench and decided t sit on the last day of the 1976 to protect his batting title (Bill Madlock got four hits and took it away from Griffey, who entered the game late but could not salvage the title).

    “No offense to Joe and Johnny, they were two of the greatest players this game has ever known,” Rose grumbles. “But what the (bleep) do they know about winning a batting title? I know about winning batting titles. I would have told Griffey to start the game and WIN his batting title. He should have asked me.”


    • snarkk said, on November 14, 2013 at 10:51 am

      Rose was in the clubhouse/dugout. Why didn’t he just say something himself? I don’t believe much of anything Pete Rose says, unless it’s the line on a game. He’s probably got that right…

      • blade3colorado said, on November 14, 2013 at 11:23 am

        Do you agree he should be in the HOF, despite his poor attempts at apologizing for lying and betting on the game of baseball (before answering this – remember we’re talking about an uneducated baseball player, not a senator, president, drug cartel czar, mass murderer, etc.)?

  48. twinfan1 said, on November 14, 2013 at 8:59 am

    Wrong spot.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 14, 2013 at 9:28 am

      No, feel free to rent that spot. For the next 30 days, we are offering a “move in” special, where you only have to put down half the deposit and only 1st months rent. We also have another deal “rent to buy” . . .

  49. unca_chuck said, on November 14, 2013 at 11:31 am

    IMO, he’ll never pay his debt. He was a manager who bet on games. He lied about it for 14 years and only came clean to shill his book. Which in my mind is the cheesiest thing imaginable.

    Who’s to say he didn’t bet against his team?

    • blade3colorado said, on November 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm

      So Chuck, I guess you don’t believe in forgiveness, 2nd chances, or redemption?

  50. Ray Troper said, on November 14, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    How about Darrin Ruf for Hector Sanchez. If he played a full season, Ruf would hit 25-30
    HRs. If Carlos Ruiz walks, Phillies need a catcher.

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