Tim Hudson, Come on Down!
I like the signing, Huddy is a bridge to Crick et al (or just: Crick). Any 2 year deal is fantastic and it’s not our money so who cares how much they spend over 2 years? I’ve gotten several texts from my idiot A’s friends who’ve mocked the Lincecum and Huddy deals but they’re looking at this from a broken perspective. Every A’s fan looks at the dollar attached to the contract, regardless of the context. Newsflash: there’s so much money infused from the new tv deal that ANY team could increase their spending and still have dough left over. Even Beane could do this and he looks under the couch cushions at the office every night.
To win at the mlb level in today’s world you need to limit the long term deals. Sabean has finalized 2 FANTASTIC two 2 year deals so far this off season. I couldn’t be happier with these signings. Hopefully Voggy takes a pauper’s deal and he comes back as the #5. Or maybe he doesn’t, who cares, Sabean has brilliantly filled out the 3/4 and any team in either league would take Petit as a #5. And Gaudin is still gently grabbing titties in the ER to stay off the DL next year……
Huddy comes with some risk, that’s beyond obvious. He’s done ok at ATT: 52 innings, 3.81 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, .256 batting average against. But his ERAx was 97 last year, the lowest of his career, and that’s not very good—-that’s a number adjusted to his ballpark. 100 is the league average. He’s been well above 100 for most of his career.
But I am supporting this deal, as I did the Lincecum deal, and will stand up and admit I’m wrong if proven so. That rarely happens though……
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Look at it this wayward they get Tim and Tim for 2 yrs for about what it would have cost just for the posting fee on the Samarai.
POTD
I see where you’re coming from Salty but Tanaka, Cain, MadBum, and the Tims could have been killer.
From what I’ve read Vogie will be an option if they can’t strike a deal with an “outside” starter. Frankly there are several possible 4/5 guys who are safer options- but they will much more expensive. Maybe it will depend on the LF decision. I have heard practically nothing about Gaudin, it’s like he was never here. Maybe there’s more to his off field troubles, I don’t know.But he was a relevation last year, waaaay better than I figured, that’s for sure. Baggarly reports this on the LF situation-
“The Giants don’t like any of the free agent options to fill their hole in left field and will look to trade for outfield help at the Winter Meetings, CSNBayArea.com’s Andrew Baggarly reports. The club could end up settling for a left-handed hitter to platoon with Gregor Blanco in left.”
Even though they could afford a pretty good LF FA signing my feeling too, is that the options are pretty limited and the two best ones are leggers looking for long-term relationships. That’s a flashing amber to me. So the trade option may indeed be the best way to go on that front. If the hitter swings a LH bat, then he better be more a slash hitter, piling up the doubles to the gaps, rather than a slugger whose drives will mostly expire in Death Valley in RCF. Exception would be if there’s one out there who’s pretty much a dead-pull hitter who murders mistakes inside ~ a left-handed Bob Allison if you would.
Here’s where the San Jose Five come in. It’s a rarity that five starters from one team in a league comprised of well over four teams happen to be rated as top-20. With Cain signed for half of forever and MadBum likely to be around for quite awhile, that would leave two surplus starter prospects from one roster alone. There are more with potential at the three lower minors affiliates ~ some relievers as well who have high upsides. Then there’s Hector as part of sandwich if the trade partner needs a better option for starting catcher and is willing to toss their just adequate incumbent into the deal.
Though he’d not be a candidate for my #1 LF option i remain intrigued by Josh Willingham who the Twins might salary dump for a pitching prospect or two,not necessarily top shelf either. Role Player. Occasional starts for six innings or so and a very dangerous bat off the bench. Waaay down season in ’13 but not too long in the tooth yet. Being part of a dynamic team might be just the tonic a return to the NL might represent.
Whatever comes down after today’s Sabean strike the Giants are back in the NLW race as the team has landed two returning FA’s to plug in #3 pitcher and 99-RBI RFer and now has more than adequately filled in the #4 Rotation slot. The interstices between some very capable players have narrowed considerably from the gaping holes which seemed to loom in mid-September. It is more than a passing possibility that Sabean will strike again. Maybe one more domino could fall resulting from the Hudson signing. Though he’s been kissy-kissy with the Evil Empire, Javier Lopez wants to pitch for a winner. A third ring might present a nice tone to his middle ear.
I commented on the “it’s like Gaudin was never there” angle a week ago. And it’s dead on and not totally surprising based off how they shut him down and his reaction to it
I guess I missed your report.
Good night Salty. As always, good posts from you, short and sweet.
Stayed up for the end of the Carolina game. I guess Brady doesn’t get every call after all…
GNight Stix, Salty.
YEah, that one replaces the Brooks call as the worst of the weekend.
Lizzie, Cristy, Karen, Linda, Deb, Cynthia.. these are the women at my grocery store. They’ve all been there as long as I’ve been here. They know me, they’ve seen me when I was well and they’ve seen me when my hair fell out, seen me when I walked in and when I’ve been wheeled in. They’ve seen the paramedics take Merna away, and when they drove me away. When I weighed 200, when I weighed 120. When I had to point to the vegetable I wanted. Christy has cleaned my house, she’s brought me wood. Lizzie has brought our groceries home. Deb has brought preserves and delicious little buns. They’ve packed my food basket for me and put in my lap for my ride home in the scooter. They’ve cried for us when it was dark and laughed with us when the sun came back out. I’m telling you all of this because Cynthia did a nice thing for me today and it made me laugh. And because I’ll never see a young girl again, one who was “all that” and more than all that. She didn’t die- not that I know of, she’s just gone away and thinking of these wonderful young women makes me feel a little better. I love to see them, they remind me of what love is all about and why that even when life just seems, just seems SO hard, there are beautiful people who will make you want to go on just to see them smile and hope it’s because they’re happy to see you too.
As you all probably saw, Zumiee and I had some contentious exchanges and I think you should know that he’ll be back soon and we’ve hit the “reset button” on our blog relationship. He’s such a valuable part of this community that I was delighted to find that he agreed with me to start over. But first I have to take a break myself, for the last several days, (weeks?) I’ve been posting all over the WWW like I had to store words for the winter. You guys deserve a break, the prizes have all been delivered- so I think I’ll spend a little more time by the pond-which is crystal clear this time of year, watching the fish dart about before they get ready to hibernate for the winter is a lovely way to spend some time after yelling at the paperboy-again. The fish have been trained long ago to swim to the pond’s edge when I tap my fingers on the water and they eat from my hand. Quite delightful. See ya later.
I’m disappointed. I was hoping you and Zumiee could develop a robust feud. These blogs get too chummy and boring. Next you guys will be exchanging holiday cheers! Damn!
poetic
Michael, the Flap doth not need a break from you, but if you need a break, pond-side, late autumn, fish peacefully nibbling the food in your hands, well, that sounds rather delightful indeed (as perhaps your Dad also would’ve said, delightedly so). Don’t stay away too long…
One of our rivals (not), is trying to keep up with the Jones. Per USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, he reports that the Rockies have signed LaTroy Hawkins to a one-year, $2.25 million contract. The deal also includes a $2.25 million option for 2015 that contains a $250,000 buyout. Nightengale also notes that Hawkins is expected to serve as the Rockies’ closer, pushing Rex Brothers back to a setup role. Hawkins is coming off a nice season that saw him put up a 2.93 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, and 55/10 K/BB ratio over 70 2/3 innings. Still, he’ll turn 41 next month and isn’t exactly landing in a spot where we should expect a ton of success. Personally, I think Brothers would be a better choice for closer, but whatever. Hawkins played for the Rockies in 2007 . . . and they got rid of him. Ha.
Obviously, you guys don’t read the Denver Post, but the fans are skewering the Monforts (owners) for their “do nothing” attempts to improve the team, e.g., they tried to sign mediocre catcher Ruiz of the Phils and failed; and, they also said they proposed $63 million to the Cuban, Abreu, but can’t prove it (anyone can say that). Pfffttt . . .
By the by, I loved the line about Beane “. . . looks under the couch cushions at the office every night.” I hope you don’t mind Flav, but I used it in a letter to the editor at the Denver Post with regard to the Rockies owners (Monforts). 😉
no prob, let me know if it gets published.
I mispoke Flav, it was a comment to an article, i.e., “Prior to last season, Hawkins was just about out of options and baseball, until he signed a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training with the Mets. Fast forward to last season, he did well and gets props for that. However, he will be 41 years old 4 days before Christmas and I wonder how much he still has in the tank? Regardless, it’s a good signing by the Rockies, i.e., it costs them a measly $2.5 million.
Who knows? The Monforts might find some more quarters under the couch cushions at their office and sign another stiff or reclamation project from MLB’s free agent dumpster.”
Did anyone else here know that Hudson is 6’1″ and 174 lbs.? I had no idea he was that skinny.
He was Tim Lincecum before there was a Tim Lincecum
So what’s the Flapper’s take on Josh Johnson? There’s a 1 year deal for a pitcher that Sabean has available to sign.
unnecessary at this point. With 4/5th’s of the rotation set, they should be able to find someone who isn’t held together with rubber bands.
From what I read he’d like to play for a NL West coast team and would prefer playing for the Giants or Pads. I think I read where he would be willing to sign for a discount for either team (7-10 mil is a discount?). My guess is he wants to come back in a pitchers ball park. I don’t know, he might be one of those surprises that everyone looks at each other and says, who woulda thunk. But if the Giants were to go for it, I’d sure hope they have some insurance around.
It would probably make it even harder for Blade to trade him in FL when his arm falls off.
I’m just hoping a majority of Mulders grounders go to the left side of the infield.
I would prefer Arroyo over what I percieve to fit the Giant’s remaining budget for pitching. Haren would be OK for a year, too. But I think, if the money was right (certainly less than the 13.75 mil he made with the Jays last year) he might be worth a flyer for one year. He has stated that the Giants and Dago are his top choices.
Stix – I thought your post at 5:41 last night (on Hudson) was right on and well stated. Absolutely agree.
Surprised at the $$, but I think Hudson turned down $9 mil from the Braves, so it was gonna take more anyway.
I wish SF had gone with more quality than quantity…I’d rather be in on a top of the rotation guy (including Tanaka) than filling out the back end to compete with what LA has going for them.
So after Bum, there is Cain Lincecum Hudson and then some combo of Vogs (ugh) Petit (fluke or no?) Surkamp (BP). Hudson and Tim finished well but still had very high ERAs and Cain had a most un-Cain like season; healthy and fully staffed pen (with Lopez and Affledt) becomes all the more critical, imo.
I agree, Willie. For quite a while I was saying I thought the Giants needed two SPs, and one of them needed to be a top of the rotaiton guy (1/2). Doesn’t look like they’ll get that, but I think they’ll round-out the rotation with another acquisition that is not Vogey.
And I agree with all that said, the bullpen is going to be crucial. I know there is interest in Lopez, but he has said he will give the Giants a chance to match any offers he gets. Getting him back would be huge, IMO.
Be careful for what you ask RE: Hudson’s ground ball propensity. Pablo and Scoots will need to tighten-up their D (the team overall will need to do this). They ranked 14th in the NL in fielding last year, and 25th in the Majors.
I do love that aspect of Hudson’s game, and his K/9 was up last year, too.
I did not see mention on the last thread, and not that it is important, but that list of suitors who were chasing Hudson supposedly also included the A’s (they wanted him pretty bad).
I didn’t mention them specifically, but I indicated “15 teams” wanted him, with the Red Sox wanting him badly.
Yep…saw your mention of “15 teams.” But supposedly, the A’s were one of the finalist (may have come down to us and them). I have heard that our offer was better financially. So for those who think the Giants over-paid, well, you either pay the market price (which is what I believe they paid), or you lose out on the opportunity. I think it an important enough signing, that I am ok with the $$, and love the two year deal (as many others stated, too).
The proof will be next season, but in my opinion this was a tremendous bargain and I think Sabean made one of his best acquisitions EVER. Why? I base this evaluation on the “heated” market place for pitching – everyone wants it; Hudson’s outstanding record of past achievement; his excellent record in the 2nd half of last season; not overpaying (as he did for Lincecum); and, signing him for 2 years, which minimizes the damage if Hudson does a face plant. All in all, Sabes did quite well.
I want to question the apparent focus of Sabes and likely others on limiting signings to a short number of years for protection against “face plants”. OK, I get the concept. But, where does this strategy eventually lead? The players that are going to be thrown into the market for short term contracts are guys that are old, oft-injured, just not very good, or have been injured and seen as reclamation projects so the player himself will take a short term deal to see if he can re-prove himself. Any or all of the above. That is, these are all guys that seem to have attributes giving them a propensity to actually “face plant” over the short term of the deal. Players that will be thrown into a market for longer-term deals with be younger, in good shape with low history of injury, and good to top of the line talent. If they face plant, it’s likely it will be because of unpredictable injury or their production falls off for whatever reason in the latter years of the deal. So, isn’t focusing on signing guys for short term deals a way towards getting a “face plant” self-fulfilling prophecy? If I go to the market and buy my meat totally from the bin with the expiration date of today, isn’t it more likely I’ll get some bad stuff I have to throw out or that will make me sick, as opposed to the fresh meat section? This is a real question, and not leveled just at the Huddy signing…
Huddy may not get as much an ATT improvement to his bidness as many do, since he’s not a fly ball pitcher. A grounder at ATT is like a grounder anywhere else. It’s the D behind him that’s more to the point. He’ll do fine with balls hit at SS and 1b (if Belt is there). Panda is good to very good depending on his waistline and his bone chips. And Scutaro is below average over at 2nd. BTW, why isn’t Panda getting his bone chips removed in the offseason?…
Hudson said he chose AT&T park cause he wanted to advance past the 1st Round of the playoffs for the 1st time in his career.
Lol’s in that statement.
Quick shout out to San Dawg: St. Mary’s of Moraga signed a guy Evan fitzner from Francis Parker School of Diego to letter of intent, listed as 6-10 215. AKA *flaco* I guess. Seen or heard anything on this guy?
They have 24 hour fitness down there, right? Even if it’s alongside killer tacqueria…bro best get busy.
I think short term deals make sense for free agent pitchers coming to ATT park. It’s what I’ve always wanted Sabean to do— pay for pitchers who WANT to come pitch in our park, DRAFT hitters who HAVE to play for us. There is no face plant at 2 years that will drag down the team like an anchor the way Zito and Rowand did. If someone face plants during a 2 year deal, you just move on to the next guy and give him 2 years. And the fact is, there are pitchers looking to re-build their value, each and every year. What better place to do so than ATT?
And the 2 year deals are all part of the plan– bridge the pitching staff to 2015 when Crick and others will start arriving.
Agree. I would add that I do not believe you can treat all 2-year deals (pitchers, or not) the same. Each situation/player is going to be different, and needs to be evaluated individually. Overall, I absolutely like the tact of the 2 year deals….especially this year with the pitching situation being what it is…
Yeah, no brainer in my opinion.
Even the Yankees are wising up, e.g., Randy Levine and Hal Steinbrenner told Jay Z and Cano to pound sand and not to contact them until they each took a “reality pill” on their 10 year $310 million contract proposal.
Well, I have ranted to many times about my dislike of going after old guys. So I will just not say anything about this. I will say that I dislike the thoughts here that the Giants will have a platoon in left Field. WTF?? Flav and alll, I hear ya about the Giants pitching, that there are up and comers. But have not heard one word about an up and coming LF, RF, CF. Granted the Giants have RF and CF locked up for 2+ years but still where are the position players the Giants are going to need. I said I would not comment on old guys. well…maybe just one… Scuts isn’t exactly a spring chicken at 2nd base. I sure wish the Giants would start developing any position player.
They have tried Took 2 in the first rd last yr, Panik before that. Its a crap shoot.
I won’t re-re-re-blah blah my tirade on lack of in-house OFers. It does frost me, though. Other teams seem to develop OFers in-house, so as Harbs said “what’s the deal?”. I dread another LF platoon, but that’s probably going to happen. The fact is I don’t think Sabean and the Giants value outfielder talent very much. Objectively, after 15 years of the SOS with no in-house developed “good” OF talent, that HAS to be the case. The Giants as an organization don’t really care much about drafting and developing OF talent. There can’t be any other conclusion, other than this organization is just incompetent when it comes to OFers. Above, BF said DRAFT hitters so they have to play at ATT, and SIGN FA pitchers that want to play here. I’ve carried that torch as a needed organization goal basically since I’ve posted on the Flap. But, they use their top choices to DRAFT pitchers to beat the band, and then SIGN hitters to fill in the position lineup. So, there’s no accident you end up with paying a lot for OFers coming from outside the org, and with a platoon in at least one OF position (now LF) of less than stellar hitting talents…
I could give a rats ass as long as they win another title. And really, as long as they are competitive and can make a legit run at the post-season, I’m cool with the direction that has been taken.
Read a few minutes ago where Hudson’s agent had 11 offers.
Giants and Lopez are “very close” to signing a new deal.
Going back through old drafts can be a fun process, if only to look at all the bizarre selections. If you’re old enough, you might remember how much hype 1989 No. 1 overall selection Ben McDonald arrived with when the Orioles selected him. The 2005 first round was the best, so far, this century, with Justin Upton, Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Bruan,Troy Tulowitzki, Andrew McCutchen, Jay Bruce and Jacoby Ellsbury all selected.
The Padres probably wish they didn’t take Matt Bush No. 1 overall in 2004. He’s on track to be the third No. 1 overall pick to never reach the majors joining Steve Chilcott and the Yankees’ famous flop, Brien Taylor. By the by, so while the Mets drafted Chilcott, a high school catcher who never reached the majors, they left Arizona State outfielder Reggie Jackson for the A’s to take with the second pick.
My point? Snarkk, this isn’t football or basketball, where the NFL and NBA have colleges as their de facto minor leagues. In baseball, the draft is for players that will – for the most part – be immediately placed in a minor league. Consequently, to think the Giants or any MLB team doesn’t “. . . really care much about drafting and developing OF talent (much less any position/pitcher talent)” is just not so in my opinion. I guess we will have to agree to disagree . . .
Blade, having ZERO good, starting OFers coming up to the SF big club for over 15 years cannot be explained by random chance. IMO. So, either that’s not a priority for SF, or the organization is incompetent at that skill. If somebody has stats on the other clubs bringing up starting OF talent from their minors over the last 20 years, I’d like to see them and be proved wrong that this is very unusual. I’m happy we just won two WS, that’s not the issue here. I’d like to know why this organization can’t develop major league quality outfielders, which would seem to me a fundamental organizational skill for a position that makes up 3/8 of your hitting lineup…
If the regulars produce like they SHOULD, then the LFer will probably be in the 7 hole. Locking-up two SPs and Lopez, IMNSHO, are much more important. And the age thing with Hudson (until he proves us differently) is a non-issue.
http://zekesplace.wordpress.com/2013/11/19/140/
I’ll be there for a couple weeks at least. I hope Craig will be OK with me linking to new posts as before. No baseball, no football, just *whatever*- and updates on what we’re up to. Please stop in- all mellow all day.
I went to Urban Dictionary today and its word of the day is: “rosterbating: Being so content with your fantasy football roster that you feel the urge to masturbate to it.”
I’ve had such an affliction hit me a couple of times this year already at fanduel.com
My earlier speculation that the signing of Hudson may have had a salutary effect on the possible return of Javier Lopez may have a bit of carry.
Various sources are reporting that the supreme loogie and SF are close to a multi-year agreement which would seriously solidify the bullpen. If indeed the Hudson signing was instrumental Javier and his agent may well have reckoned that Hudson’s ability to pitch deep into games would mean that a higher percentage of Lopez’ appearances would occur in the closing innings rather than, say, in the fifth or sixth innings. Also, of course, the addition of a quality starter means that the Giants are once again a contender, which would reverberate with a nicely toned ring in the southpaw’s inner ear.
Should the deal get finalized Sabean will have done his due diligence in seeing that key contributors are returned to the fold from the vagaries of Free Agency. With that, the money-ball aspect would be in the safe-deposit box, meaning that Giants fans may soon sense whispers of trade-winds blowing out to Left.
I had read Javier wanted to be closer to his home in Virginia, which is why the Nats were attractive. Not to be too cynical, but I’m guessing like most, he was convinced otherwise with the sound of cha ching cha ching….
From baggs…”Sabean said he wouldn’t pursue more than one additional starter because he believes Yusmeiro Petit can provide depth and the GM is “really banking” that left-handed prospect Edwin Escobar will be big-league ready in the near future.”
Oops I missed read that. So they are going to sign one more in addition to Hudson.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/giants-near-agreement-lopez-prioritize-pitching-over-lf
Good article salty . . . Thanks! It looks like a likely scenario for left field is a platoon with fill in the blank. If this is the case, I am hoping that a better alternative is that Roger Kieschnick or Juan Perez WOW at spring training. Not likely, but one can hope. Perez is 27 and Kieschnick is 26 – In my opinion, next season is “do or die” for these two guys showing that they are MLB ball players.
It’s obvious to me they aren’t…
Yes, the odds are that they will only be annual minor league call ups.
Yeah, in the case of Kieschnocks, I think they may have seen enough. His one attribute, power? awol. At least with Perez he showed great D and speed. And he hit .277/.320/.466 when brought back in Sept.
Sure Twin, link-away whenever you like. Enjoy the fishes. Catch you on the flip side.
Josh Johnson signs 1 year deal for 8mil with San Diego.Throw in an extra 1.25 mil if he makes 26 starts.
Not much of a risk for SD as well since Toronto didn’t offer him a qualifying offer, so they don’t lose a draft pick.
Could of worked that deal for us,but no biggie to me.Still would prefer Arroyo over him.Even Haren .Though it will cost us more.Though if Johnson stays healthy and that’s a big “IF”,8 mil for a 5th starter might have helped add extra coin toward our LF sweepstakes.
Pandavision…
http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/video-pablo-sandovals-offseason-workouts
Is he training for football?
So what’s going on today? Lopez is almost signed, Arroyo and Vogs are still in play for our 5. We still need to address the OF. I doubt we have the cash for a Ellsbury or Choo and I don’t think that SF wants to give up their draft pick. Even though I picked Hart in the earlier poll, I wonder about his knees in the OF and I think he’ll probably stay with the Brew crew anyway. Would the Giants take a chance on a PED guy like Nelson Cruz? Does the Grandy Man and Mclouth being LHed keep them completely out of the conversation? Picking up Chris Young is just adding another 4th OFer, and we already have that, plus the dude has worn numbers 24 and 25 and that ain’t gonna happen. Sounds to me like we need to make a trade for that OF slot…
I know the OF spots have been filled by trades due to lack of in house talent, but that’s what Sabes has been very good at, going all the way back to Reggie Sanders, Kenny Lofton, Ellis burks, Randy Winn, and picking up likes of Burrell and Cody ross off waivers. Pagan and Pence deals were fantastic.
And look around at rest of division–Ethier and Crawford, Cargo and Cuddyer were all traded/signed as FA.
Meanwhile SF has drafted outstanding pitching, Posey Belt Sando–couple Cys and an MVP while winning the big one twice.
Wow, watched Jahii Carson of Ariz St. get 40 last night as Sun Devils got comeback W at Thomas and Mack vs. UNLV. It’s always fun to watch a guy score 40, but he did it in less than the 48 of an NBA game and added 7 assists. ASU has a big 7 ft lefty hook shooting C and another transfer forward Jermaine something that got 20.
Oregon off to great start along with U of A–Pac should be entertaining conference, including locals.