A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Building Another Pathetic Offense, By Brian Sabean

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 21, 2013

Still kind of reeling from the Fielder/Kinsler trade. Not sure what Texas is doing but if you don’t care about money I guess it’s a move that could work out in their favor. On the flip side of that bold trade, we had Larry Baer trying to shift fan’s focus away from any off season moves that might acquire a starting left fielder by saying: “In 2010 and 2012 LF was basically a platoon situation too and we went and got help mid season (Burrell, Ross, Pence).” I think that is a dangerous path to travel. The Giants couldn’t be any thinner at pretty much every non-pitching position. One guy goes down, we’re screwed. Heck, we might be screwed if they all manage to stay up.

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  1. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 21, 2013 at 7:10 am

    Doesn’t this leave Moreland without a spot in Texass? Supposedly the Rangers are deep with prospects so I don’t know what might entice them but Moreland has a low OBP, strikes out a lot but hits for power. A Sabean kinda player.

  2. blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 7:10 am

    I would imagine that Baer sees the Giants position players improving overall from last year’s pathetic performance . . . Posey approaching his MVP 2012 year; Panda avoiding Denny’s “Grand Slam” breakfast menu and Golden Corral “All ya can eat” dinner buffet; Belt channeling Lou Gehrig (or at least Freddie Freeman); Pagan not slipping on any banana peels; Scutaro extending his fountain of youth contract with the Devil; Crawford having a clue about lefties; and fill in the blank left fielder(s) approaching the league average in fielding and hitting.

  3. Bozo said, on November 21, 2013 at 7:36 am

    I guess the Giants haven’t given up on Gary Brown since they added him to the 40 man. Also added were AA 3B Adam Duvall, single A RHP Hunter Strickland and low A RHP Kendry Flores .

    Now if the Giants are only worried that someone would take Brown, does that mean we have a potential trade partner?

  4. Bozo said, on November 21, 2013 at 7:46 am

    Hey, with the Tigers getting Kinsler maybe we can get Omar Infante for our bench. That’s who I wanted to get.

  5. willedav said, on November 21, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Fielder I’m sure Texas hopes would put up better numbers in their yard than he did in D. with the $30 mil D is kicking in, they wind up paying almost as much for Kinsler, who isn’t hitting 25 bombs. Once they had to play without Cruz Texas offense fell apart, so this is how they address it.
    Giants lack of depth has cost them dearly in the btw Series W years. Would you take Uribe on multi year deal? Where would you play him?
    Great post by Blade 7:10 btw. Baer is ridiculous as usual.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 21, 2013 at 9:42 am

      I dig UUuuuribe, I think he’s one of those glue guys in the clubhouse that the club has to have and he’s a good player but no on a multiyear deal for him. I’m guessing that SF wants Panik to man 2b in 2015 with Scutaro taking over the utility role. I wouldn’t mind seeing Abraeu return. They kept him around long enough last year to get healthy and finally play some games. He’s got some pop. Why not bring him back instead?

  6. snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Well said, BF. Not to diss Lopez, but the guy pitches maybe every other game, at best, to one batter, maybe two. I’m glad he’s back, but I’m not popping agates over it. A left fielder, last I looked, plays 9 innings at least, for 162 games, with 4 ABs per game. The Giants better have an idea of what they’re going to do out there. Baer’s talk = Blanco and we’ll figure it out later seems a little underwhelming. If SF had gotten Bird, I’d feel better, and he’s no great shakes. Two years at $8M per doesn’t seem that bad for a decent hitting LFer with some pop and RHed, given this FA market. I’m hoping they’re keeping quiet and some good, under the radar thing is in process for LF…

  7. salty said, on November 21, 2013 at 9:34 am

    James should be nodding his approval with the emphasis on pitching.
    No matter who is in left, the pitching will determine how far they go. Just consider when they won it all, they were ranked 1st and 5th in era. Last yr 27th.

    • willedav said, on November 21, 2013 at 9:58 am

      Agreed, and depth of PS too me is even more important than LU. Losing Affeldt and the injury plus suckitude of Vogs and Zito meant guys like Mijares and Kontos were in there way too much. Having to plug in Groper to fill an SP spot was great for rotation but screwed up the pen. Get all the hitters you want, but bottom line SPs have to improve and hold the runs down way lower than 2013. I think Sf with good pitching and D can handle LA.
      Lopez has 2 rings and he’s earned them. Who else do you want pitching to Agon with 2 on 2 out late game? He fills a role and a need in the pen–hope Hembree can do the same.

  8. stixwiz said, on November 21, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Baer is well known for being full of fluff n’ feathers. Could be a smokescreen as Sabean’s M.O. is to keep those cards close to the vest till he strikes. Still think a trade for a credible LFer is quietly in the works. Giants still have that glut of starter prospects rising through the system and keep developing chokepoints on catching prospects. Anyone ever notice that the three most sought-after slots are starters, catchers and shortstops? SF may be fair to partly middling in shortstops, but quite long-suited in the other two ~ almost embarrassingly so.

    Sabes may still be targeting that fifth starter slot first, now that Lopez is all but cemented into place. Methinks the tradewinds will be ablowing come the Winter Meetings, not so far off.

  9. Alleykat said, on November 21, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Well Bochy has said he would prefer a “Set LU” and LF is not one ofthe them.So maybe he gets thru to management on this one,and he gets his Christmas list completed at the Winter meetings.

  10. salty said, on November 21, 2013 at 10:12 am

    It won’t be easy or come cheap trading for a quality OF who can both hit with power and field. I think mgmt is just being realistic.

    • stixwiz said, on November 21, 2013 at 11:21 am

      The hit for power thing is a bit secondary, i think. Preference here would be for a RH batter good for 25-30 doubles and 12-15 dingers, with some RBI cred. There should be a few of them around and if over 33 Y.O. or so, should not cost two arms and a leg ~ unless those limbs happen to be relatively surplus to projected team needs.

      • salty said, on November 21, 2013 at 11:39 am

        Stix, agree, a 12-15 hr type would be fine. Not sure there are many of them avail. Several teams are looking for corner Ofers.
        Deadline might be their best shot when teams are shedding salary.

  11. unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 10:15 am

    I think (hope) they are done with pitching. And, as much as me and Gregor go back, I hope we do more than a RH platooner in LF. Blanco is great as the late-inning-defensive-replacement-PH-PR guy, but we need a full-time guy. Frigging Willingham? Someone has to fill the Pat-the-Bat role this year.

    • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 10:41 am

      I said get Willingham 2 years ago after he finished with the A’s. I think…

    • unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:06 pm

      I wanted Ibanez 4 years ago. That and $5.00 gets you a soy-mochachino-half-decaff latte.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:08 pm

        With foam.

      • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:19 pm

        Mark Ibanez is still on Channel 2… 😉

      • unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:51 pm

        And Larry Biel is back.

        Or maybe I am?

  12. unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 10:16 am

    They can fill the 5th starter role with the spare parts they have lying around.

    • stixwiz said, on November 21, 2013 at 11:24 am

      True, but building some depth in pitching is always a plus. With Petit, Surkamp and Escobar in a temporary holding-pattern the team would be well-covered for injuries and such should a fifth starter not be too long-term.

  13. unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    If nothing at all happens, they’ll re-sign Vogie and re-sign Gaudin after he enters and exits the witness protection program. Petit will hang in Fresville til needed.

    • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:20 pm

      I assume there is a rehab program for groping…

  14. Bozo said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    How about Nick Markakis for Clayton Blackburn? A Baggs speculation from his chat yesterday.

    Also, Baggs said that he heard the Giants would be comfortable offering Vogs a low ball offer of 2 mil with incentives that could take it to 5.

    Here’s the whole chat if anyone is interested.

  15. Alleykat said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    If we don’t care about D out in LF till 8th and 9th innings (Senor Blanco) and we all want the pop from a RH hitter who hits for average and will give us 20-25 Bombs and 80plus RBI’S then lets go after Billy Butler from the Royals,who is said to be available this winter.A Pat Burrell guy in LF but will produce good numbers.

  16. blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    I don’t have any interest in Arroyo, but for those of you who do, ESPN’s David Schoenfield writes a column supporting the Giants alleged pursuit of Arroyo.


    Me? In my opinion, this guy is “Barry lite,” i.e., he throws as slow (or as fast) as Barry, gives up more home runs than Barry, is older than Barry, and just for general “shit and giggles” principles, HE PLAYS A FRICKIN’ GUITAR LIKE BARRY AND THAT MAKES ME EVEN MORE ADAMANT ABOUT NOT SIGNING HIS ASS!

    • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:01 pm

      He’d throw far fewer HRs at ATT compared to the Reds launching pad. Flyball guy…

      • blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:42 pm

        Ironically, you would think that, but as the column points out – most of the homeruns he gave up weren’t at the band box he played at in Cincy, but rather at other parks. Nevertheless, yes, the Phone Park would help him. Still don’t like him, especially for what he wants in his next contract. Let someone else overpay.

      • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm

        ATT’s an improvement for HR reduction vs. every other yard, essentially. I’m not pining for the guy, but I think he’d be a decent 4, a great 5. If it’s him vs. Voggy, there’s no comparison given how Voggy dropped off the map the last season and a half. Sorry Voggy…

  17. Chipower9 said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    I think the priority at this point has to be another starter…preferably one whose initials are not Ryan Vogelsong. I am still hopeful for Arroyo (and he has publicly said he would love to come here and pitch in our yard). $$ and length of contract will determine whether or not that shakes out.

    I can almost guarantee you, that even if the Giants trade for an OFer, it will be someone who ultimately will platoon (I know…many of you cringe at the word) with Blanco (not saying I like that…but realistically, that is probably what will end up happening).

    • unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 1:58 pm

      Is Arroyo a flyball pitcher? As in do they stay in the yard? He could work on a one and an option but I have no idea what he expexcts to get. .

      • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:42 pm

        They don’t stay much inside the Red’s bandbox. They’d stay more inside ATT. How much more is anybody’s guess — maybe 1/3 less HRs given up at home?

  18. salty said, on November 21, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    I thought I read teams were prepared to go 3 yrs for Arroyo?? Heck, Moyer won 20 at age 38 and 21 at age 40.
    Blade, Think the key diff between Zenmeister and Arroyo is control.

  19. Chipower9 said, on November 21, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Arroyo does give-up some HRs, but with 81 games played in spacious Phone Park Yard, and another almost 40 in LA and SD, I would think his HR totals would come down after playing in that bandbox in Cincy.

    He does have good control, and also has been quite durable (199+ innings in each of the past 9 years).

    I would prefer 2 and an option…not sure what he wants. I heard rumors he was wanting something akin to Tim’s contract. Fuck that.

  20. Chipower9 said, on November 21, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    And on a separate, but Bay Area-related note, can someone explain to me how the Warriors just cannot seem to beat the Memphis Griz? WTH is up with that???

    • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:04 pm

      They didn’t have Curry, out with a concussion,. Also, no backup point guard, Tony whatever, also hurt. Iggy was the point guard, and that’s not gonna work. They still could’ve won it if Iggy makes the final shot. No biggy IMO they lost last night in OT…

      • Chipower9 said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:56 pm

        Yeah, it was more a “get the monkey off your back” thing (11 straight losses to the same team has to start wearing on ya).

  21. Alleykat said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    Blade..The thing about Arroyo that I’ve mentioned before is that he has been durable, a innings eater, 9 straight years over 200 innings which would have a great effect helping the BP out in a long season.
    Yeah he plays guitar but he won’t get strings for it till he signs and only then can play it only in Flannery’s band for Bryan Stow benefit.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 3:55 pm

      Too late now, but I would have rather seen the GMen give J. Johnson a comparable San Diego type contract for one year, where it is low risk, high reward versus what Arroyo is going to get (i.e., likely a 3 year with option contract minimally).

  22. Alleykat said, on November 21, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    Yeah Blade, but it never to late to bring back Todd Wellemeyer,with “High Risk and No Reward “

    • blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 4:27 pm

      How about we get someone that has demonstrable stuff, such as Scott Kazmir, who probably wont cost an arm and a leg. Dude got robbed of the AL Comeback Player of the Year.

      • Alleykat said, on November 21, 2013 at 5:37 pm

        I could be down for Kazmir Blade
        Balance out the rotation some.I Like 2 lefty’s starting. Kazmir bounced back strong last year,so why not try and get him on the cheap?

  23. snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Nobody’s talking about Voggy. Maybe he’s done for the Giants? I’m one who’s for saying siyonara, thanx for the memories, you got your ring, we’re moving on…

    • blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 4:48 pm

      The only caveat I would have to this course of action would be to exhaust all other alternatives (or failure to sign a free agent or trade), then sign him on a minor league “make or cut” contract with a team option at no more than half what his $6.5 million previous option was. Anywho, something along those lines. .

  24. blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Wow! I like Lopez, but am shocked his agent was able to get a $13 million, three-year contract.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 6:21 pm

      I’m Specifically referring to the 3 year part . . . I was fairly certain they would go 2 years max.

      • Flavor said, on November 21, 2013 at 6:27 pm

        Didn’t Affeldt get a 3 year deal too? I’m not sure, can’t recall and don’t feel like looking it up.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 21, 2013 at 6:30 pm

        Yeah he did. 3/18.

  25. blade3colorado said, on November 21, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    This is what bugs me . . . With each team gaining about $25 million in additional revenue in 2014 from national TV contracts – plus the Giants’ own local cable deal with CSN, doesn’t it seem as if the Giants can afford to reload? If you recall, the Giants signed a 25-year deal with Comcast Sports Net before the 2008 season. It’s actually a partnership agreement. Rather than accept a set payment for broadcast rights every year, the Giants actually get a big chunk of the total revenue each year. I’ve heard that figure at 30 percent and 33 percent.

    How much is that in cold cash? I have no fucking idea. Those numbers are proprietary. Snarkk (or anyone else), do you know?

    I do know this – the Rangers get about $80 million per season (I just read this). The SF bay area is the fifth or sixth largest market in the U.S. For reference, the Texas Rangers have the fifth or sixth largest market and Los Angeles is the No. 2 television market in the country. So, let’s say that the Giants get somewhere around the same amount as the Texas Rangers, i.e., $80 million dollars annually. No where near the $7 billion over 25 years the Bums get.

    No idea where I am going with this, but earlier this year, the Chronicle wrote a column about the aforementioned and I am posting this last part . . .

    “I asked Giants president Larry Baer yesterday if, even with the ability to boost TV revenues by charging more for the product over time, the 25-year deal will be an albatross that makes the Giants fall behind as other teams sign more lucrative, traditional contracts for broadcast rights.

    “No,” he said, “we feel we can keep up.”

    You can decide for yourself whether to believe him or not. But two reminders: 1, Baer cut his teeth working at CBS, so he knows television. 2, the Giants are pretty good at figuring out how to maximize revenues.”


    • snarkk said, on November 21, 2013 at 10:48 pm

      Blade, the Giants OWN something around 30% of CSNBayArea. So, their equity interest in the regional network gives them more income beyond a piece of just the advertising income of the Giants broadcasts. Every time there’s a commercial for college football, baseball, basketball, talk show post game, the Warriors games, Sharks games, whatever there is 365 days a year on CSNBA, the Giants get a slice of that revenue. How much revenue CSNBA pulls in every year, I dunno. But, it’s got to be substantial. So, the Giants have various revenue streams, from game tix to licensing products, to ads at the ballpark, to concessions, parking and a slice of CSNBA. That ‘s why when I hear “budget” I want to scream…

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