A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Big Flavor’s HOF Voting Card

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 26, 2013

It’s that time of year again. Hall of Fame voter time. As an esteemed member of the Baseball Bloggers Alliance, I have the great honor of being able to cast a vote–well, a more accurate description is that they say if you don’t vote they kick you out of the Alliance. So, without further ado, here are this year’s hopefuls with my vote next to each name.

Moises Alou– negative

Jeff Bagwell– negative

Armando Benitez– laughing to hard to type “negative”

Craig Biggio– negative

Barry Bonds– YES

Sean Casey– negative

Roger Clemens– YES

Ray Durham— negative for *Ray from across the Bay*

Eric Gagne– negative

Tom Glavine– YES

Luis Gonzalez–negative

Jaque Jones–negative

Todd Jones–negative

Jeff Kent– YES

Paul LoDuca–negative (though I greatly enjoy him @ TVG

Greg Maddux— YES

Edgar Martinez-negative

Don Mattingly– Negative

Fred McGriff–negative

Mark McGwire— negative

Jack Morris– YES

Mike MUssina–negative

Hideo Nomo– negative

Rafael Palmiero–negative

Mike Piazza– negative

Tim Raines–YES

Kenny Rogers–negative

Curt Shilling– negative

Big Sexy Sexton–negative

Lee Smith–YES

JT Snow– negative (maybe BAHOF)

Sammy Sosa– negative

Frank Thomas-YES

Mike Timlin–negative

Allan Trammell– negative

Larry Walker– YES

There it is. Nothing to controversial (except maybe Walker). They say you can’t vote for more than 10 and I hit 10 on the nose. Thoughts?

60 Responses

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  1. pawliekokonuts said, on December 26, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Without looking at any statistics (why be confused by facts?), I think I have to insist on Piazza and MAYBE Edgar Martinez, shuffling off Clemens (just because) and Walker (again, just because).

    Happy Feast of St. Stephen, you Dead-heads!

  2. zumiee said, on December 26, 2013 at 10:21 am

    If other steroid guys make it in, then McGwire has to get in, too. His numbers are Hall of Fame numbers.

    • chipower9 said, on December 26, 2013 at 10:27 am

      Hard to argue that.

  3. chipower9 said, on December 26, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Even though he was a hated Dodger, I agree with Pawlie and think Piazza is a definite Yes.

    Good one, Pawlie on St. Stephens…


  4. Flavor said, on December 26, 2013 at 10:56 am

    yeah Zumie, I see that point. I’d probably switch out Raines for McGwire. But, I’ve already sent it in so, it stands.

    • willedav said, on December 26, 2013 at 11:58 am

      Leaving raines in is good, much more complete player than Mac or Sosa. I’m not up on Walker or Thomas, but nice call on Lee Smith and Morris.
      I tend to disagree with the *strictly numbers* argument. Sosa was an explosive power hitter for a few years, otherwise strictly average, and I’d say the same for Mac. Bonds could do it all as a youngster, and in SF was just incredibly successful and fearsome presence hitter, among best of all time.
      It would be cool to see him and Maddux both go in–even the great Maddux had his struggles with Bonds.

  5. blade3colorado said, on December 26, 2013 at 11:21 am

    I like your picks, but NO on Walker, albeit, probably not for the reasons you might think. Sure, Walker’s numbers were inflated some by Coors Field. Walker’s home/road splits, in particular, exhibit a fascinating symmetry: Home: 1.068 OPS, Away: .865 OPS, Overall: .965 OPS

    The reason I don’t like him is 3-fold: 1. He was injury prone and missed significant playing time; 2. One World Series and he made no difference in the Rockies loss; and, 3. He AVOIDED Randy Johnson like the plague . . . Actually, he was afraid of him and almost always took the day off when Randy pitched. it was written about frequently in the Denver Post.

  6. unca_chuck said, on December 26, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    I don’t think McGwire should get in. If you inflate numbers for the * era, then he don’t belong for all the crappy years he had around the roided ones. Same goes for Sosa. They were the poster boys for decent players inflating their power numbers due to roids. Same with Schill(ing). Bonds/Clemens make it in due to already being great before the roids.

    .263 BA? Fuck McGwire. He batted .201 in 1991 for God’s sake. He’s the reason lots of deserving guys won’t get in. His (and Sosa’s) shadows loom large because they were good to above average players who got more power through chemical intake. Yeah, Bonds did as well, but he had already established himself as a great player. Take out the roids and McGwire is Brady Anderson. Sosa is Larry Walker. A guy with good numbers, but nothing like what he got out of roiding.

  7. Nipper said, on December 26, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    BONDS on pure ability. Still this will open the floodgates for the juicers in years to come. I’m glad I don’t have a vote.

  8. snarkk said, on December 26, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Sorry, but the HOF has now become a joke.
    Three managers sail into the HOF like they’re on Cleopatra’s royal barge, but the ‘roided players they managed that helped them get tons of those wins are persona non grata in the HOF. It’s stoopid. Take the vote away from these idiot baseball writers, many of whom knowingly enabled the steroid era, and then we can talk. BTW, how do we know Maddux and Glavine weren’t doing PEDs?…

  9. ewisco said, on December 26, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    clemens is a joke. he was done when he left boston and clearly started roiding either that last year in boston but definitely by the time he got to toronto. EVERYTHING after that is suspect. before that: two cy’s but never a big-game pitcher (ask dave stewart). just a punk ass with a drug problem. why no one threw at him when he was in the national league i’ll never understand. As for the rest, morris (definition of a big game pitcher), maddux but my jury is still out on glavine. maybe kent and piazza, probably raines. and the manager thing IS a joke. so really can’t get excited about any of it other than i can’t stand RC.

    • Nipper said, on December 27, 2013 at 5:56 am

      He once threw at Bonds.

  10. blade3colorado said, on December 26, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Happy to see the Memphis Grizzlies signing guard Seth Curry, who had been playing with the Santa Cruz Warriors of the NBA Development League.The 6-foot-1 Curry averaged 21.3 points, 3.5 rebounds, 7.8 assists and 1.58 steals on 43.9 percent shooting in 37.3 minutes in 12 games for Santa Cruz this season. Would love to see him replicate what his big brother is doing. Sheesh, all the Curry’s (dad Dell) have a knack for scoring, especially from 3 point range.

  11. zumiee said, on December 26, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    I agree there are a lot of loathsome things about McGwire, but the numbers are Hall of Fame numbers. 580 homeruns, 1400 RBIs, and a career OBP of nearly .400. Sure, it was steroid-based, but that’s the era; so if other steroiders go in, he has to go in, IMO, or it becomes an impossibly messed up situation, with voters having to estimate when guys did or didn’t start using them, and then stopped or didn’t stop using them. That’s an impossible judgment for voters to make, IMO.

  12. dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 26, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Pretty much agree with your list. I think Piazza and E Martinez should get the nod but if your point is ten I guess they could go another year.

    I always liked Raines. He is one of those guys with less shine because of the greatness of his contemporary, The Rickey. To me those two illustrate the Hall of Fame versus Hall of Pretty Good. Rickey is a no doubter. Raines? Any other era maybe people don’t think twice but he suffers from playing at the time of one of the all time best players.

  13. DJLoo said, on December 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Bonds And Kent.
    Fuck the rest of ’em.

  14. Macdog said, on December 26, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    Sad news: Paul Blair died.

    BALTIMORE (AP) — Paul Blair, the eight-time Gold Glove center fielder who helped the Baltimore Orioles win World Series titles in 1966 and 1970, has died. He was 69.

    Blair died Thursday night at Sinai Hospital of Baltimore, according to a hospital spokeswoman.

    Blair was with the Orioles from 1964-76. He then played for the New York Yankees — winning World Series in 1977 and 1978 — and the Cincinnati Reds.

    In 17 seasons in the majors, he hit .250 with 134 home runs, 620 RBIs and 171 stolen bases. Blair appeared in six World Series, two All-Star games and won Gold Gloves in 1967 and 1969-75.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 26, 2013 at 7:50 pm

      Damn, that’s awfully young to die. RIP Paul Blair.

  15. DJLoo said, on December 26, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    An all time great CF. Right up there with Mays and Flood back then.
    One by one they go.

  16. DJLoo said, on December 26, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    Blair hit the ball that Agee flagged down in right center in Game 3 of the ’69 series.

  17. Macdog said, on December 26, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    Another fun fact: Blair was the one who took over in RF after Billy Martin yanked Reggie Jackson in that ’77 game at Fenway.

    • DJLoo said, on December 26, 2013 at 8:31 pm

      Good one, Mac!

  18. Nipper said, on December 27, 2013 at 5:52 am

    The writers who can make the jump are working for Comcast. Remember when writers meant something important? Just think in a few short years kids will ask their parents, what’s a newspaper?

  19. willedav said, on December 27, 2013 at 7:41 am

    O’s were my fav team in the AL during years of Yankee dominance, esp once they got Frank Robinson. Blair was a cool under radar player and excellent defender like Belanger. Pitching was usually top notch, including pen guys.
    I always liked the old smiling bird in the middle over white hat, too.
    My buddy in HS was White Sox fan, dug Agee and all their pitching (Peters, Horlen, etc.) Bonds played for them one year I think and almost got 40/40 didn’t he?

    • willedav said, on December 27, 2013 at 8:03 am

      nope, with Angels late 70s. almost did it with Giants ’73, 39/43. Sox home pinstripe/black hat was cool uni tho. Shorts, no.

      Hey Nip, friend of mine got me a sample 3 pack of coffee from Trader Joes—working on a Kenyan medium roast right now, also Viet dark and Peruvian medium. Step up from Yuban, trust me. And the label doesn’t say 30 wt.

  20. willedav said, on December 27, 2013 at 8:15 am

    Since I brought up unis and hats, my godson is up here visiting from Diego. Former die hard Giants fan he now is all in on Pads, and wore a dark brown Pads hat with just SD initials in yellow. Btw, he isn’t too high on Chase Headley either.
    He follows a blog down there, *Gaslamp* I think, and he showed me some things on it from his iPad that had pix of their old unis, including the brown with the brown/yellow hat. First words out of my mouth were *Nate Colbert*…but man I thought the various combos of those unis were freaking hideous. Fun to see the old pix before Diego went to the dark blue.

    • Bozo said, on December 27, 2013 at 1:03 pm

      Weren’t the old unis called the Taco Bell uniforms?

  21. chipower9 said, on December 27, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Those brown/yellow unis were some of the worst. White Sox with shorts were awful, too. The Indians had some that were almost all red (tops and pants) that were butt ugly, too (mid 70s). Astros with horizontal stripes (70s-80s) were right there, too.

  22. stixwiz said, on December 27, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Damn! Whacked out weather most everywhere this season. Here in the wild, frozen Northwoods of Manysnowta i’m currently looking out at clear skies and the landscape is basking in +35 degrees of ABOVE zero temps. My head even started working a bit again. But hold your hats gang…

    Low tomorrow night is projected for 29 degrees BELOW zero. That 36-40 hour switcheroo is more bipolar than a room full of yo-yos. Even in nice winters we almost never get thawing days between Christmas and New Years. 64 degree temperature variations in that short a time span. Think about it. Oh, we get steady-state stuff for a few days at the turn of the year. High Sunday will be around 9 below and all nights through New Year’s Eve will go past twenty below. Eases up some with the New Year for a few days with mostly above zero days and nights at low double-digits minus.

    Is this all from geo-engineering (HAARP/chemtrails et al) working overtime, or is Mama Nature herself getting peeved and petulant? Only your hairdresser knows for sure and he/she ain’t tellin. My woodpiles suffer and so do the outdoor cats. Macouzho loves it, though. His fur thickened out this Fall into a magnificent pile and he’s always right there when i venture outdoors. Good day for that today. Maybe get back on board here this evening. Meanwhile there are shrubs to prune and more snow to heap against the walls of the old shack. Free insulation, dontcha know.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 27, 2013 at 10:33 am

      I’m sure Sandawg has a closet full of those weirdy brown hats with the yellow front. Man, almost as bad as our v-neck 70’s unis.

      Jesus. You hunkering down foir the duration, Stix? That’s avalanche weather if you are near any hills.

  23. chipower9 said, on December 27, 2013 at 10:24 am

    I don’t know how ya do it, Stix. Wishing you and the cats a healthy and happy new year. Stay warm.

    And to answer your question I think it is all about Mama Nature being flat-out pissed off…

  24. chipower9 said, on December 27, 2013 at 10:26 am

    And while you are experiencing cold the likes that are unfit for human habitation, the Bay Area is experiencing record high temperatures…go figure.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 27, 2013 at 10:33 am

      Would love to go skiing, but we’ve had little snow.

  25. twinfan1 said, on December 27, 2013 at 11:25 am

    New Post
    Brats, ‘Que, and Dungeness Crab…


  26. Bozo said, on December 27, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    For those Willie Mays fans out there. Apparently, Hallmark makes specialty Christmas ornaments. My wife gave me one from 2012 that was Willie making the catch. She found it on a discount table at a local Hallmark store.. Makes for a fine christmas tree decoration. Hope everyone had a good one, cheers.

    • chipower9 said, on December 27, 2013 at 1:44 pm

      I bought two of these probably three or four years ago…one for me, and one for my daughter. I also bought a Jackie Robinson one at the same time. It is one of my favorite ornaments.

  27. chipower9 said, on December 27, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    The Willie Mays one is one of my favorites…

  28. blade3colorado said, on December 27, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Good article by Chris Haft about our Giants . . . http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/news/article/sf/giants-hoping-2014-is-a-bounce-back-year?ymd=20131226&content_id=66133476&vkey=news_sf

    • blade3colorado said, on December 27, 2013 at 1:58 pm

      Addendum – Call this article my Christmas wish list to the fat guy with a beard. Of course, I’ve done my part by being good (umm, at least that’s what she said last nigh . . . umm, nevermind).

    • stixwiz said, on December 27, 2013 at 3:53 pm

      Blade: Thanx for the link. Haft lays it out pretty straight. He might could have explored the Hudson and Morse additions at more depth. However, he did hit on several of the more important factors in a possible resurgence.

      I’d love to see some truly in-depth assessments of the current state of the team. Based on those two aforementioned additions essential improvements in both the rotation and lengthening of the lineup at the most needful spot; the Giants have done their due diligence in a thoughtful, conservative and businesslike manner. Hudson and Morse could prove critical to a vastly improved team with both an occasional stopper and a lurking game-changer. Team should be noticeably improved in close contests with nearly matched opponents.

      Then there’s the bounceback factor: There is hunger: Panda and his looming Free-Agency; Posey feeling a big need to get back into the swing of things; Pagan Baby yearning for a season with only one or two minor injuries at most; Pence earning that contract; Belt finally arriving as a serious All-Star candidate; Cain getting off to a good start; Timmy demonstrating he’s still got it, even with diminished heat; Vogie making good for one last swat at the pinata; Affeldt overcoming his proneness to injuries and a young reliever or two letting the world know that they have the stuff to stick in The Show.

      Lottsa talent on that team. Should the many moving parts slide into the type of synchromesh this outfit demonstrated twice already in the current decade we could be looking at a squad which brushes off the cobwebs and goes on to dominate the rest of the league the way they did their own NLW last season.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 27, 2013 at 5:14 pm

        Good point regarding your last sentence . . . We did well against the NL West, but did a face plant against the rest of the NL, particularly the Central Division.

  29. unca_chuck said, on December 27, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Not sure if they are planning a big blow out before the blowup, but here’s tour info.


    • WilcoJoe said, on December 27, 2013 at 5:32 pm

      Have the Giants considered holding their fan fest there? I would probably fly out for that.

      • snarkk said, on December 27, 2013 at 6:27 pm

        I heard Marty Lurie the other day say the chance of that is slim to none. Maybe a separate “fest” though, might be arranged if enough people show an interest. No chance apparently of a last baseball game there as an end to Spring Training. Cost too much to change the field, and the seats for football are apparently messed up, not easily able to move back into RF for a baseball configuration. Or, at least that’s the line they’re giving…

  30. blade3colorado said, on December 27, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    “Cost too much to change the field, and the seats for football are apparently messed up, not easily able to move back into RF for a baseball configuration.”

    This is the way we did it when I was a kid – For bases, we used t-shirts, extra gloves, or card board. Usually, we never had more than 4-5 kids on each pick up team, so we would use 2nd base as the foul line (anything to the right of 2nd base was fair) and an infield hit to 3rd or short, you threw to the pitcher for the infield out.

    Any questions? 😉

  31. Bozo said, on December 27, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    Here’s hoping our 3rd base coach heals up from the chip party in his knee. We (k)need that guy running with the Pandas, Sharks, Giraffes, Hunters and Crazy Horses all the way home. Get well Flan.

  32. Macdog said, on December 27, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    I’m guessing no one here went to the Fight Hunger Bowl.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 28, 2013 at 7:50 am

      Nope. Went out to dinner instead.

      • Nipper said, on December 28, 2013 at 8:19 am

        Chuck was fighting hunger! His own.

  33. willedav said, on December 28, 2013 at 7:50 am

    One last thing about the O’s—they passed on Balfour, so they still need a closer.
    Might not be Sabes rolls, but I’d love to have Balfour at back end throwing heat, and Romo is a damn site more reliable than Fernando Rodney. I’m not so sure Scuts is gonna hold up and be a productive player, at least with the bat. Package Romo with someone and you might get a solid middle IF above the level of Kelly Johnson or willie bloomquist.

    • Nipper said, on December 28, 2013 at 8:20 am

      Wille D as GM? Must be drinking some strong coffee.

  34. zumiee said, on December 28, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Puig arrested for reckless driving.
    “I’m so surprised,” said no one ever.

    • paulinasia said, on December 28, 2013 at 5:34 pm

      Yeah, saw that. 110 mph, that’s some serious speed…..

      • James said, on December 28, 2013 at 7:49 pm

        James Dean was only doing 85-90 . . . .

      • unca_chuck said, on December 28, 2013 at 8:48 pm

        Puig was on the freeway.

        JD was on a two lane blacktop

      • xoot said, on December 28, 2013 at 10:45 pm

        Dean was driving into a setting sun

      • unca_chuck said, on December 29, 2013 at 9:33 am

        In more ways than one . . .

  35. DJLoo said, on December 28, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    The car was on PEDs.

  36. James said, on December 28, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    I could get behind Jack Morris in the HOF, despite his only above average career, if he had just shown a little more personal vulnerability. As it is, ol’ pizza face tough guy wasn’t nearly as good as the Stanford dude on the ballot. He was, however, pretty much the same as another Detroit fav, Mickey Lolich.

    Mickey is the very first player I remember being touted as a baseball hero after the 68 WS. He doesn’t belong in the HOF any more than Jack does.

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