THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Time For a Different Set of Voters

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 10, 2014

A good, solid mockery of the BBWAA is making the rounds on the internet. And they deserve it. There is no reason that covering 140 games of baseball a year should automatically qualify you to vote on who goes to the Hall of Fame and who doesn’t. So who SHOULD be able to cast a vote?

Former players? This could work if they were players who played in the era of HOF-eligible player. But what would count as “played in the era”? How many years would you need to qualify? And what if you played your entire career in the other league?

Fans? No way. Then it gets turned into an all-star vote and you’d have way too many “Marvin Benard’s” getting in.

A panel of 9 voters? Kinda like a Supreme Court. Not sure who the 9 would be. I still think 9 (or 12 or whatever) would be better than the 571 or so that get to cast a vote now).

I also think that no matter who gets a vote, it has to come from people who saw the player actually play. You can’t just look at the back of a baseball card AND make a silly determination of character when you didn’t watch the player play regularly. So if you need this as a qualification, who gets to vote? Writers who covered the player during their career? And what happens if the writer is dead or in the loony bin? Does he/she still get a vote?




33 Responses

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  1. chipower9 said, on January 10, 2014 at 6:55 am

    Good topic, Flav, and interesting that I was just pondering this very subject. I have given a bit of thought to this, mainly as I am just thoroughly disgusted with the current process. And while I feel the process definitely needs to change, I, like you, do not have the answers. But I have some ideas that I will share.

    Anyway, what really lit me off this morning was a comment by Brian Murphy on KNBR. I listen to KNBR regularly (way to and from work, and while I out an about, etc.). But I listen not because I think most of the blowhards on there are all that, but because the station covers the teams that I follow (Giants, Niners, Shark, Dubs, etc.).

    So Murphy goes off on this semi-tirade about the fans that are all over the BBWAA. He goes on about “the fans don’t know what the hell they are talking about in skewering the writers.” He also talks about how “the writers I know are thoughtful, and put a lot into their votes,” etc. (major sausage sucking here on his part). It just really set me off. I wish I would have been in the studio with him, because I would have had more than a few choice words for his sorry ass. Fuck him. On this topic, I think he has his head buried up Selig’s ass.

    Regarding my thoughts on this topic; perhaps the votes should be a “blend.” The writers will still get their vote. The fans get ONE vote each. And perhaps a panel of players and managers also get a vote. I know it will never happen, but at least from this you would get a perspective across the spectrum of those who watch and love baseball.

    Anyway, great thread, and sorry for the prolonged rant. The whole Murphy thing just crawled up my ass big time this morning. And lastly, I know that nothing with change until Fuckwad Selig is out of the commish’s office. Hopefully when that day comes, we will see some type of change for the better. End of rant. (Insert gay-ass smiley face here.)

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 2:32 pm

      I heard that, I had a similar reaction. Murphy is an ex-beat writer for the A’s. So, though he didn’t say it, he was personally insulted by the BBWAA bashing, IMO, so that’s why he acted butt-hurt. I generally like the dude, he’s one of the best of a sorry lot on KNBR, but sometimes he goes off on a tangent. He’s virulently against the fan “wave” at games. I really don’t care for it, but it doesn’t set me off into tirades. It does to him…

  2. Bozo said, on January 10, 2014 at 7:26 am

    First, I don’t know or care who Brian Murphy is, so I’m with Chi on this, fuck him.
    I say take the vote completely away from the writers, I’ve heard way to many “I’m not sure if he broke a rule so I won’t vote for any of them” type shite, if you’re not sure who is a hall of famer from just watching them play, you don’t get a vote. Plus, with the writers walking on egg shells while covering their beat, pay back might just be withholding a vote (hey, if they can lump all PED players together, I can lump all the writers into a vindictive asshole category).
    To continue what stix suggested the other day, I think it should be the GMs and Managers period, two votes per team is enough votes. Between the two leagues they’ve pretty much got all the eligible players covered. I know the managers and GMs could also hold some sort of grudge, but I would tend to trust them more on who belongs and who doesn’t. The Big Hurt before Bonds? Fuck me with a Selig gummed Polish dog.

  3. willedav said, on January 10, 2014 at 7:28 am

    Agree, chi but I’m with wisc–the HOF is so f-ed up I’m beyond caring. I can’t believe anyone who ever saw Bonds play doesn’t think he is a HOFer, just on the eye test. Younger days he could run and field, and as a hitter unmatched for hitting for avg. and power. F-Frank Thomas…I’d like to know what Glavine and Maddux thought about having to face Bonds all those years they dominated the NL.

    Nip, 4 AM? I’ve been watching too much good b-ball to be up that early. Last night alone was great game UA and UCLA, Santa Clara St. Mary’s won on a long 3 with 1.2 seconds left, cal takes down Oregon on the road and scores 96. saw Colorado beat Oregon and SDSU edge Boise.
    Poor Stanford lost on a night when refs called 50 fouls and there were 60 FTs. By contrast Santa Clara shot 2 FTs the whole night and there were only 29 fouls called the whole game. Let em play, eh? Dawkins does not have enough depth with injuries to win a game like that even when Randle gets 30. NIT, I’m afraid, and alumni will demand his head on a platter.
    And tonite I will watch some kids I coached play HS. The public schools around here play quad games Friday nights, when both boys and girls varsity and JVs all play in the same gym on the same night, starting early afternoon and ending with 7:30 or 8 varsity game.

  4. unca_chuck said, on January 10, 2014 at 7:32 am

    Heard that Dan LeBatard was stripped of his vote for selling it to deadspin.

    We might be on to something here. Ban, say, 499 more and whittle the panel down to somewhere around 50-100 and not limit the number of players you can vote for. And why is it only writers? Why not broadcasters? Or announcers?

    • willedav said, on January 10, 2014 at 7:56 am

      Not sure where I read it, but someone said Miller is on record saying he would NOT vote for Bonds. hmmn.

      • willedav said, on January 10, 2014 at 8:02 am

        It was in Killion’s short column yesterdays Chron, where she admits that she combined with fellow village idiot Purdy of the Merc to leave off Biggio, who was short by 2 votes.
        Here’s her quote: “I guarantee you, Bonds and Clemens would still not get in if the voting was done by (1) fans, (2) broadcasters, such as Jon Miller (on record as saying he would not vote for Bonds)…”

      • wswin said, on January 10, 2014 at 9:15 am

        Does she mean the 42000 who stood and cheered for BB when he broke the HR record? Does she mean the sold out ballparks across the nation when he was chasing it? does she mean the opposing fans ballparks booing the pitchers who didn’t pitch to him? Wtf is she talking about?

      • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 2:51 pm

        For the life of me, I fail to see what Ann Killion ads to the sportswriting scene. She’s vapid, and focuses on tangential issues, IMO, to get a rise out of readers. She voted for 4 guys on her HOF ballot. Four. Including Maddux, Thomas, Raines and Lee Smith. What a combo. No vote for Glavine, or anybody else. Her idiotic ballot made somebody’s list of top idiotic ballots.
        She clearly has a vendetta against Bonds, probably he insulted her on more than one occasion (as if she were the only one), and she can’t shake it, just like Gwen Knapp. Knapp’s reports while still with the Chron on the Bonds trial weren’t actual reporting, they were character assassination editorials on Bonds dripping with not even thinly-veiled disdain…

  5. wswin said, on January 10, 2014 at 9:11 am

    The same question as the thread today…

  6. Bozo said, on January 10, 2014 at 9:36 am

    Speaking of Hall of Famers, Happy Birthday Stretch!

    • salty said, on January 10, 2014 at 9:47 am

      Second that.
      Wonder if he reads the flap?

      • Chipower9 said, on January 10, 2014 at 11:14 am

        And a third…I’ll tip one in Stretch’s honor tonight…

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 2:41 pm

      Happy Bday, Stretch!…

  7. salty said, on January 10, 2014 at 9:44 am

    The steroid issue would divide fans, mgrs, GM’s announcers, former players etc, not just writers. And all would also have personal biases. There’s no perfect solution. I think the writers pre steroid, usually got it right over time. A few like Raines have been unjustly excluded, but whether its mgrs or players, there will always be controversy. Fans have proven they are the least objective.

  8. stixwiz said, on January 10, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Just in on the wire: Another ride on the D-Train for Fresno (most likely) as S.F. once again spins the bottle with talented but command-challenged Dontrelle Willis. So is this one actually a move where they have someone who thinks he can get Dontrelle back in the groove, or is it making a move just to appear to be doing something?

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 2:34 pm

      Spring training arm…

  9. twinfan1 said, on January 10, 2014 at 11:10 am

    There is one solution and few are going to like it- the computer. Yes, humans would decide on the input but statheads are just *barely* human. Seriously, it could work- a reasonable set of qualifications could be set. WAR would factor in but not be the sole arbiter. I haven’t worked it all out yet, my Blogticulator Pro 2014 ver.1 is in for a tune up ( it put Vernon Wells in the Hall just before he was DFA’ed) In the meantime, have some squirrel brains- they taste just like chicken brains..

  10. snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    Let’s see now. Yesterday, the “writers” let in Maddux, Glavine and the Big Hurt. Do you really need to be a 10+ year baseball writer to have voted those guys in? Anybody who followed baseball for any length of time and who can mark an “X” would have voted for those three. Duh. What special knowledge and experience did it take for the writers to figure out those three? None. It’s long since past the time when this HOF vote is taken from the “writers”. The wealth of info out there, along with all the TV and video, means anybody that pays attention to baseball and is of goodwill can accurately reflect who should be a HOFer. The Lebetard deal shows it. The fans filled out his ballot. 9 of 10 names on it were the same as Baggarly’s ballot. So, what did Baggarly’s “expertise” add to his vote? NOTHING…

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 3:21 pm

      BTW, Baggarly said today on KNBR that when he first got his HOF vote, he was voting when some players still eligible were players that he never personally saw play. He didn’t recuse himself from voting for them. Why then would his vote on them be any more informed than a non-BBWAA member?…

    • Flavor said, on January 10, 2014 at 5:00 pm

      100% TOTALLY agree with this post

  11. snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    More info on idiotic HOF balloting by those great BBWAA members…

  12. blade3colorado said, on January 10, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    I am going to call my theory “Carrie.” Essentially, the Carrie theory goes like this . . . All writers were nerds In high school and they have these attributes:

    1. The majority of Nerds are believers in Star Trek, a mysterious religion based around an old space expedition. Nerds will flock thousandfold to conventions, where they will dress up as their Gods and perform strange and terrible rituals. There is no official head of the Nerd religion, though the announcer at the convention is treated as a nominal leader.

    2. Nerds can come in all races (the Asian from The Revenge of the Nerds), colors (Steve Urkel), shapes and sizes. There are Nerd girls too, like the one from the movie She’s All That.

    3. The following is the list of places owned by nerds:
    * Internet – Internet is probably one of the places where you are most likely to be attacked by nerds.
    * Net Cafe – Do not spill anything on computers occupied by nerds. In a second, they will attack you like the Star Wars Kid.
    * Comic Book Stores – Every once and a while someone will walk in looking for a good story, but they are mostly ruled by nerds. Do not attempt to take anything limited edition, or they will eat you whole.

    4. Memorize a complicated work, such as pi, the Periodic table, and 7th-dimensional algebra, and pretend as though people care.

    5. Understand the workings of Facebook, but have little use for it, for they have no friends.

    6. Buy a device, such as a smoke detector, for the sole purpose of taking it apart

    7. As an extension of the above scenario, attempt to take it apart to figure out how it works, although it is unnecessary, as people have already built it!

    8. Care about balls of gas located light years away from us.

    9. Care about an extinction of a species that does little good to mankind.

    10. Do everything important in the world, such as become baseball writers, actors, write books, make the best TV shows, drinks, I-phones, websites and companies making billions of dollars.

    Addendum: The Term Geek, as opposed to nerd, in the modern world, may apply to any normal human of which are mid way between being a nerd and a “cool person”. This delicate balance is withheld by the modern geeks determination to fit in to many worlds, and to be the bridge between the social gap. Many geeks in the modern world have aspects of both lives, while they may enjoy wallowing in the odd computer related activity, they also have a social side, and one that does not only include the company of other nerds.
    Many geeks these days are often considered attractive/cute/funny/sexy etc etc by the opposite sex, of which we are talking about “normal” females, and not NERD females. The reason for this is because of their compassionate loving sense, along with the manly sense of being. It is also because they are fed up of the typical stereotyped males of today, Chavs, Pikeys etc. Geeks of today are well rounded, normal people. 🙂

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 10, 2014 at 3:17 pm

      lqtm. Nerds…lulz

  13. snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    Killion did not vote for Glavine. Here is her reasoning:
    “Greg Maddux was, in my mind, the ultimate slam-dunk. Tom Glavine probably benefited from being intrinsically linked with Maddux. But Glavine wasn’t nearly as great, which is why I voted for Maddux and decided Glavine could wait.”
    Read that again. Does that make ANY sense? Glavine won 305 games. How did being “intrinsically linked with Maddux”, whatever that means, help him win any one of the 305 games he won? Did the oppo hitters not notice that Glavine was pitching, not Maddux? Killion just decided, what the hey, Glavine “could wait”. Absolutely stunning idiocy.
    If you dare, read the rest of her crap rationale. It’s mind boggling…

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 3:25 pm

      Here’s another gem from her rationale:
      “Trending the wrong way: Barry Bonds, and his evil twin Roger Clemens.” No personal bias there…

  14. unca_chuck said, on January 10, 2014 at 3:16 pm

    Like leaving out McCovey because he was ‘intrinsically’ linked to Mays. So, teammates aren’t worthy regardless of overwhelming numbers?

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 3:43 pm

      Some of these idiot BBWAA people did not and apparently will not vote for Kent because they somehow link him to Bonds’ taint. No matter that Bonds and Kent hated each other, and Kent made no secret of his disdain for ‘roiding. Seriously, many of these BBWAA people are intellectually warped somehow…

      • Bozo said, on January 10, 2014 at 5:15 pm

        Not to mention that Kent was an asshole to the media as well. Some folks have said that Bonds and his personalities were about the same.

  15. snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    If you want to send a HOF voting complaint to the HOF, here you go…

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 5:13 pm

      I checked the BBWAA site. There is no way to contact them from the site. Wonder why?…

  16. Flavor said, on January 10, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    Murph (of “Murph and Mac”) got on a serious soapbox this morning chastising anyone who questioned the BBWAA. He goes on and on about how these are the people who are doing the *work* and that we shouldn’t question them since we never did “the work.” How stupid is that? The only thing that a BBWAA writer has on a guy like me is his clubhouse pass. That’s it. And I would put the research I do on these players up against what anyone in the BBWAA is doing (research wise). So Jeff Passan talking to players with their cocks dangling during the interview is a reason to honor his opinion over mine? Fuck that.

    • snarkk said, on January 10, 2014 at 6:23 pm

      I sent Murph a note that the BBWAA is a self righteous, bloviating group that has made the HOF voting a joke. I linked him on the Killion article, and said that was Exhibit A. He’s probably buds with her, and will be pissed at that. I’ll be interested if I get a rise out of him and he responds. Passan is 33, born in 1980. Maddux started in MLB in 1986. So, I was watching Maddux pitch when Passan was in first grade. Where was Passan when Will Clark ripped that Slam off Maddux in the ’89 playoffs — in the rumpus room playing with his Hot Wheels? But, hey Passan is a BBWAA member, so he’s more qualified than I am and all the Flappers here to say Maddux is a HOFer, right? What a load of rubbish…

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