THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Figuring Out the Cause of all of These TJ’s

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on March 19, 2014

Listened to a very interesting Kruk segment on KNBR this morning about his take on what is causing all of these elbow injuries to pitchers. I had always attributed it to young pitchers playing year round and never giving their arm a break. Slowly, attrition on the elbow is inevitable.

But Krukow offered a different explanation that seemed quite plausible. He said that when he was a kid, pitchers threw like 2 pitches— fastball and curveball. Bruce Sutter (Kruk’s name, I’m sure it was someone else)  introduced the split finger fastball and that pitch became quite popular. And Greg Maddux, among others, popularized the change up and cutter.

Kruk said that all of these new pitches, over the years, are responsible for too much stress on the elbow region because the pitcher has to speed up their arm speed to properly throw them.

Anyway, it made sense to me. And if that’s truly the cause, I’m not sure there’s a way to fix this unless they stop throwing the pitches. Right?


On another note, if you are supportive of Bryan Stow, check out how this tragedy has affected Tim Flannery. Powerful 5 minute video. “Live Riveted”. It’s great advice.


121 Responses

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  1. zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 9:14 am

    It seemed like there was an arms race of sorts (no pun intended), with lots of batters from the 1980s-2000s juicing up, pitchers had to “up their game” to get these guys out. A pitcher NEEDED all those pitches. And now, the young pitchers who can be major league-ready in a hurry are getting the big media attention. Strausburg and Harvey are cases of these young guys blowing people’s minds with their pitching “stuff,” but blowing their arms out in the process.
    All pitchers are going to want to do everything they can to get to the “bigs” and get some of that “Bumgarner money.” 🙂 🙂

    • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 9:30 am

      Nicely done!

    • Chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 11:29 am

      Awesome. I know a number of Flappers really could care less about ST ball, but this video does a nice job of encapsulating exactly why I love to go down to Scottsdale every year (that and it is a short break doing something with my daughter about which we are passionate). Thanks for sharing, Flav. Love it. GO GIANTS!

  2. zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 9:21 am

    San Dawg, you’re pretty rough on ol’ Kuiper. 🙂
    Actually, my wife would fully agree with you. She thinks he has kind of a “Debbie Downer” voice and personality, to reference the Saturday Night Live character. I don’t really hear it in the same way, but I do agree Kuiper seems to come to life more doing radio. The non-stop narrative of doing radio play-by-play seems to enliven him more. With Krukow, on TV, he kind of slides into more of a kick-back mode. And, of course, on the post-game rap, he goes completely comatose.

    • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 9:24 am

      Where I think Kuiper can be brilliant on TV, with Krukow, is in the running commentaries on people in the crowd. They create little storylines better than anybody in the business.

    • snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 11:40 am

      Post-game, Kuiper may be comatose, but he still eats and drinks while he’s doing it. Really unprofessional — I don’t need to hear lip smacking and soda pop sucking while discussing Pagan’s effort in legging out a triple…

  3. Flavor said, on March 19, 2014 at 9:33 am

    Personally, I think Kuip has one of the best HR calls of all time……..
    Regarding Vogelsong, it’s time to fire off the alarms. Three starts and he’s sucked. 15 innings, 25 hits? They’re hitting .362 off him.
    He does have 10K’s to 2 bb’s. Still, the balls that are going through the zone are getting punished and he’s running out of time to get right again……..

    • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 9:39 am

      Yeah, I like Kuiper’s homerun call a lot, too. A Giant, hitting a big homerun during a night game at AT&T, with Kuiper’s great call, and the crowd going crazy in the background….that’s awesome stuff.

    • snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 10:29 am

      Regarding Voggy, he’s got two more ST starts to figure something out. If he doesn’t, how long do the Giants go with him into the season hoping he can right the ship? I say he should have a short leash of 4, maybe 5 starts, tops. If he’s still struggling like a Zito clone at the end of that, they’ll have to make a decision. This division is too competitive to have Voggy limp through half a season…

  4. zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Yeah, the plan B for the Vogey spot in the rotation better be staying on alert.

    • snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 10:25 am

      The plan B is obviously Escobar. He didn’t look exactly ready for the big stage in his ST starts so far. So, he better find his MLB game real soon. He and the Giants may need it….

      • twinfan1 said, on March 20, 2014 at 10:48 am

        I think the progression would be Petit or Huff (both out of options) and then Escobar.

  5. dirtnrocksnomo said, on March 19, 2014 at 10:00 am

    I don’t know about all the other stuff but I do remember playing in LL and maybe one kid threw a curve ball. Up until high school you didn’t really see specialty pitches.

    Regarding Kuip. He’s alright. His homerun call is good but still not better than Adios Pelota! I find Kruk increasingly unbearable. I just prefer Miller.

  6. Alleykat said, on March 19, 2014 at 10:28 am

    Sliders are the most strain put on a pitchers arm causing the most injuries IMO. Probably why Romo is just getting lit at times this Spring,as he experience with other pitches.
    Just pray his main pitch the slider, and his arm hold out for the season with his frail body takin abuse.

  7. unca_chuck said, on March 19, 2014 at 11:22 am

    Kruk and Kuip are worlds better than 80% of the other announcers out there. Yeah, they get tiresome and tedious at times, but Christ, they’ve been together for YEARS. How many stories are out there that they can go to?

    And part of the problem is the wealth of announcers that have rolled through here. Hodges and Simmons, Greenwald, Bill King, Wayne Walker, the last Niner guys who’s name I can’t recall . . .

  8. chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 11:41 am

    I like both Kruk and Kuip. They can get a bit too homery, but agree with Charlie…they’re better’n 80% of the other announcers out there. And agree with earlier posts…love Kuip’s HR call. There is one from last year (maybe two years ago)…extra inning game….cannot recall who hit the bomb, but he did his usual “he hits it high…he hits it deep…that ball is outta here, and we are GOING HOME!” Love that call.

    I know it is only ST ball, but I am alarmed by Vogey’s past couple of starts. snarkk – not sure Escobar is the immediate “Plan B.” He was just optioned to AAA camp. He will probably be back up, but who knows when. But neither he or Petit’s ST numbers are anything to make you stand-up and take notice.

    Petit – 5 games, 1 start, 8.0 IP, 15 H, 11 R, 7 ER, 7.88 ERA, 2.00 WHIP.

    Escobar – 4 games, 3 starts, 6 IP, 6 H, 6 R/ER, 5.19 ERA, 1.62 WHIP.

    I was telling my friend Mike this is exactly why I was SO PISSED that the Giants did not add another arm with ML experience as a potential 5th. A short leash is certainly in order…agree with snarkk…4-5 starts, MAX.

    RE: the mini Flapalooza. I am interested. Just keep us posted on the date, or is it already locked-and-loaded on 4/25? And if this does go down, I think we definitely need to plan a major Flapalooza for later in the year, and inquire about getting the Hack Man to join us.

    • snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 11:50 am

      Yep, Chi. There were some of us here anyway that did not want Voggy back under any circumstances, and did not understand his getting cut, paid off for the non-exercised option, then re-signed for the guaranteed $5M. ST is still ST, but so far, he’s done nothing to change my opinion that he’s done…

      • chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 2:26 pm

        Yeah, I was not on board with Vogey coming back. There were a number of FA pitchers with ML experience for two years that to me, were ALL better options.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 20, 2014 at 10:59 am

      We all recognize the folly of putting much stock in ST stats, then go out and put too much stock in them. Vogelsong’s last start was plug ugly but it was just a continuation of last year’s train wreck. On the other of the spectrum, I’d be very wary of Hicks’ numbers.

  9. chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Overall, the Giants have the best. Between the homers K&K, Miller is right up there with the best. Love him doing Scully in Japanese. And Dave Fleming has, IMO, really turned into a nice announcer.

  10. chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    Forgot to mention the Flan video. That was great. Love Flannery…probably my overall favorite guy in the organization.

  11. WilcoJoe said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    Agree regarding Kuip having one of the best HR calls in the game…The “this game is over” on the walk off’s is Hall of Fame worthy IMO…I also agree with Zumie that some of their best work is done when they discuss the action in the stands….They actually have toned it down some over the years. I remember in the late 90’s when they would pick on fat, shirtless guys eating in the stands at the Stick…Kuiper had a little bit of Don Rickles in him, that would leave me doing the proverbial horse laugh…I think with the advent of cell phones, they couldn’t pick on people as much without getting called out for it, by relatives and friends of the unsuspecting victims…By the way, what ever happened to the moose man? He used to sit in the right field arcade at the Stick…That guy got more camera time than Bonds.

  12. WilcoJoe said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    I dig Flemmimg as well…I just have a hard time taking him serious because of his age. I think it was Twin that said, he needs to age some, so he can actually have some stories to tell…I couldn’t agree more.

    • WilcoJoe said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:28 pm

      Of course I remember being surprised at how young Jon Miller was when he joined the Giants…Having seen him on the ESPN telecasts, I thought that he was in his early sixties…I think he was like 45 when he came home to San Francisco.

  13. Bozo said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    I love that Airstream helped sponsor Flan’s tour.

    Kruk and Kuip don’t bother me much, sometimes I zone them out but sometimes I zone out when I’m at a game. I’m not a big fan of Flemming, couldn’t/can’t stand Ted Robinson and even though Miller is very good, my favorite is still Hank Greenwald.

    • WilcoJoe said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:44 pm

      I couldn’t stand Ted Robinson either. He used to have this annoying way of annuciating certain words. Something about the way he would put too much emphasis on certain words, always rubbed me the wrong way…Agree about Hank…I still dream about falling asleep to his voice calling Giant games late into the night.

      • twinfan1 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:09 am

        I think that Ted is one of the very best in any sport he does. The worst? Angel ( sorry, Chuck), Papa ( except when he did basketball). Best studio host-Barry Tomkins. Worst studio analyst- no contest, Estes. Kruk and Kuip- comfy. The absolute best ever here- Bill King.

    • twinfan1 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:14 am

      David Glass, OMG. Tim Ryan is very good. Eric Davis destroyed any cred he might have had with his giggle fest after the Catch 3.

  14. Alleykat said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Well I’m one of the one that thinks Vogs is done, and he’s proving it this spring.
    He can spin it like a lot pitchers, that I’m feeling good and just need to fine tune my mechanics (well he’s missing a spark plug or 2,and about to seize the engine with no oil,and he’s definitely running on fumes)
    Bochy has to see some life support out of him soon, or find another 5th starter or start drinking a 5th..

  15. chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    Hard to believe, but Fleming has 10 years under his belt with Log Gigantes. (He started in 2004). Yeah, Miller was around 45 or 46 when he came back to the Giants in 1997. Never was a big Ted Robinson fan either, Clown. Greenwald was good, but I’d take Miller any day.

    • Bozo said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:56 pm

      Chi-Many people would agree with you on Miller over Hank and he is very good, but Hank’s style just fit me better. I don’t know if this is still true, but for awhile Hank was working A’s games while the Giants had some numb nuts from Oaktown (don’t remember his name), that was just wrong, man.

      • chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 2:29 pm

        John – Don’t get me wrong…Greenwald is up there with my all-time favorite Giant announcers. But I would take Miller over him. I admire and have much respect for both of them. Was it Ron Fairly that the Giants had calling games for a while? Whoever it was…they sucked balls, big time.

      • Bozo said, on March 19, 2014 at 2:42 pm

        Fairly was the color guy to Greenwald for awhile.

      • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:25 pm

        Fairly was the play-by-play guy during the ’87 and ’88 seasons, when Greenwald was gone for a couple of seasons. Fairly was just terribly mediocre. He was awful to endure after having great ones there before him.

      • Bozo said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:36 pm

        Fairly was so bad it got to be kinda funny. I forgot that he did the play by play for awhile.

  16. zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    I rate the Giants broadcasts teams very high, but I’ve come to like a few of the other broadcast teams around the majors, too. I like the Mets crew; I can’t think of the play-by-play guy’s name, he does a very good job. And Darling and Hernandez are solid analyst guys. I might be practically alone on this around here, but I like Hawk Harrelson on the White Sox games. I’m generally not a fan of big “homer” broadcasters, but for some reason I find him interesting as a broadcaster. And Steve Stone does solid work as analyst.
    My least favorite are the Yankees and Red Sox broadcasters. That Yankees guy and his “See ya!” homerun call can take a hike. And his little vomitous cutesy individual homerun calls are awfull. Texeria “sends a Tex message!” Seriously, that broadcaster really sucks, but the Yankee fans are too busy sniffing Jeter’s jockstrap to notice. And the Red Sox crew, well, Jerry Remy is horrible, but there’s no reason heaping anything on him anymore, now that his son was arrested for brutally murdering a woman. Remy seemed like a broken man in the last interview I saw with him. Who knows when he’ll get back to broadcasting.

    • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 12:54 pm

      According to the internets, Remy is back broadcasting this ST. Going back to work can be the best therapy sometimes.
      He’s not good at his job, though. Ouch, that feels harsh saying that now, though.

    • Macdog said, on March 19, 2014 at 1:06 pm

      Gary Cohen is the Mets play-by-play guy, and yes, he does a fine job. He also does hoops for Seton Hall, and will be calling all four NCAA games from Buffalo on radio tomorrow.

      As for the Yanks, that was two different announcers you referred to, both an abhorrent listen. Michael Kay is the annoying “See ya!” guy who does the TV games, and John Sterling is the even more annoying one with the “little vomitous cutesy individual homerun calls” on the radio.

  17. wswin said, on March 19, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    Thanks for both those vids Flav…outstanding

  18. snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 2:02 pm

    Hank Greenwald bored me to tears, sorry. His announcing style seemed to me too clinical, even his storytelling efforts, which some folks seemed to really like. His son sounds similarly boring, unfortunately. Lon was and always will be my favorite with that great sense of dry humor, and he called the games objectively. If the Giants stunk, he said so. Miller next, though he’s IMO technically better at PbP than Lon ever was. The one year Lon and Al Michaels worked Giants radio 1976, was baseball radio heaven, to me. The team was crap, but the broadcasts were gold. I have no idea if/how they got along with mike off, but on air, they were great. I don’t have one all time least favorite. Art Eckman, Wayne Hagin, Ron Fairly and David Glass are all in the running. Might be the same guy. Though David Glass has actually been mayor of Petaluma for quite a while. And, Lindsay Nelson never fit, too East Coast or something. McCarver on TV that one year? Blech. Here’s a comprehensive list of Gyros’ announcers:

    • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:08 pm

      Thanks for the link; it’s very cool to see that list. I didn’t realize how close I came to hearing Hodges on a broadcast, but barely missed him. He was scheduled to do occasional broadcasts during the ’71 season, but died suddenly near the beginning of the season.

  19. unca_chuck said, on March 19, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    I loved Greenwald mainly because I still liked listening even though 80% of the games he broadcast were nightmares. Michaels was great back then. There’s an old pic of Michaels and Simmons in some SF eatery after a game. They got laughs showing it last year I think.

    Lon grew agitating as hell as he got older as would describe something so long, you had no idea what the hell was going on. He’s talking about some shit, and you can hear the crowd going nuts in the background. Miller does that sometimes as well. Gets too wordy for his own good. But Miller is top notch.

    • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:18 pm

      I was real happy for Lon that he was the 49er broadcaster to call the ’88 season. He got to experience that amazing season. And, of course, his call of the famous Steve Young run that season against the Vikings is one of the great calls of all time. Not so much the words themselves, but the emotion in his voice. Lon would get so excited, and the voice would start to crack and crumble, and it was just so genuine and heart-felt sounding.

      • zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:20 pm

        Yeah, I know I’ve posted this before, but I couldn’t resist! It’s too fantastic!

      • chipower9 said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:37 pm

        I agree…one of the best calls ever…

      • unca_chuck said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:58 pm

        My favorite part is when he stops talking entirely to catch his breath. I was at that game (sitting in the wrong end zone) and didn’t hear the call til the drive home.

      • unca_chuck said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:59 pm

        Hey! They edited the silence out of that clip. Between the 20 and the 5, Lon’s speechless.

      • WilcoJoe said, on March 19, 2014 at 4:04 pm

        Agreed…I could listen to that a hundred times over and get goose bumps every time.

      • snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 10:58 pm

        Stram had it called right early in the final drive. He called out Dallas playing 7 Dbacks, and Walsh running against it to force the Dbacks to make a tackle. Good line blocking. Lenville Elliot doing it, sheezus. Every pass except the final TD to Clark was closely contested, Joe threw it on the money, or he missed entirely with no chance for a pick. What a game, what a moment in time. Classic. Hell, even Jim Tunney was the umpire. Would I take Walsh over the current coaches despite them going to 3 title games in a row? In a heartbeat. I didn’t see any TOs necessary in that final drive to get the play calls right. Play called in, huddle up, get to the line, do the play. Why is it so hard now?…

  20. zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    Thanks for the info on the NY broadcasters, Macdog. It’s nice having the names that go with the voices.

  21. Alleykat said, on March 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    The only entertainment value Lindsay Nelson offered was seeing what extremely “Loud Polyester Suits” he would throw on to broadcast games!!
    Sure he shopped at a thrift store for those hideous outfits…

    • twinfan1 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:27 am

      Lindsay was a very good baseball announcer. Just a bad fit here. But the worst fit was Harry Holy Cow when he did the A’s.

  22. zumiee said, on March 19, 2014 at 4:00 pm

    Thanks for the Tim Flannery video, BF. That’s excellent.

  23. unca_chuck said, on March 19, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    And yes, I live riveted. To my couch . . .

    (excellent stuff tho)

  24. DJLoo said, on March 19, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    I think announcers of losing teams can get a little beaten down…

  25. blade3colorado said, on March 19, 2014 at 7:30 pm

    I grew up with Lon Simmons and Hank Greenwald. Like Chuck and Bozo, I liked Greenwald because if the games were shit (and they often were), Greenwald’s wry sense of understated humor, which often was sarcastic and biting, was worth listening to. I am not exactly certain why the Giants and him parted, but I heard that the Giants brass got tired of him criticizing the team. If this is the case, tough cheese – they sucked and he rightly said so (again, in his understated way) when they frequently were face planted by other teams. Meh.

    I also like Miller, Kuip, and Kruk, albeit, not nearly as much as Hank and Lon. Also agree with many of you who’ve said we have had some very, very good announcing teams on both sides of the bay. For my money, the best announcer in basketball and football is Bill King. No one can convince me otherwise (especially, in basketball). Dude had a steel trap mind and his words were like a Mozart symphony.

    Vogs is done in my opinion. I went back and forth on him during the off season. I absolutely didn’t want him when the hot stove season started, then was ok with the signing at the end of the hot stove season. Now, I want him gone. Two starts max in the regular season to prove himself. The Giants brass shouldn’t tell him this or the anxiety will get to him, but after two consecutive shitty starts, they should release him or send him down on some mystery DL minor league assignment. I hope the check book is open after the All Star break – I suspect we will need ownership to add reinforcements if the Giants are floundering . . .

    • chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 8:55 am

      Yeah Steve – there were a number of us who didn’t want Voggy back and stated this back then and on this thread. I think he is done, too. Hoping Escobar catches fire in minor league camp. He struggled a bit in Scottsdale, but had flashes of looking really good. He started the game my daughter and I saw against the Bums at Camelback Mountain (Bum’s yard). Had a rough first inning, but then settled down and look pretty damned good.

      Either he or Petit are going to have to be ready…I don’t see them making a move for a 5th if Voggy flounders…it will be Petit (who has had his own issues in camp) or Escobar.

      • blade3colorado said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:10 pm

        Yes, that would be awesome if Escobar could perform in case Voggy does a face plant this season. I just hope the Giants don’t give him a long leash. Voggy should be released or sent to the minors after 2 games of futility in my opinion.

    • chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 8:56 am

      I think if the Giants are in the hunt at the break and need some reinforcements, the money will be there…but only if they are in the hunt.

      • blade3colorado said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:13 pm

        Yes, I left out that part about being in the hunt . . . Good point. Sabes will not spin his wheels for additional players if they Giants are floundering at mid-season. It didn’t make sense last year and certainly doesn’t this season. By the by, if this roster goes belly up, that’s it for the 2012 “WS Team.” I expect wholesale changes in 2015, if this team doesn’t do squat. I will be pissed otherwise . . .

  26. SanDawg said, on March 19, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    I could talk/blog about announcers all day. Lots of great posts by you guys on the topic. Yeah, I laid it on a little thick about Kuip. I don’t think he’s terrible or anything like that, but he comes across to me as way less prepared than Miller or Flem, and the humorous bits he does with Kruk (Ugly Finder, Pop-Up Dance etc..) irritate me. I thought Greenwald and Simmons were both pretty good. I really like Miller and Flem is my favorite. I think Steve Blass does a great job for the Pirates and I actually don’t mind the D-backs guys.

    …and add me to the list of people totally down with ripping up Bum’s contract. It would be a classy move and I think it is just the right thing to do. Has there been any media hype about how underpaid he is? If not, its only a matter of time before that starts being a hot topic. The Giants would be smart to get out in front of that.

    • DJLoo said, on March 19, 2014 at 7:36 pm

      Good Dawg!

    • WilcoJoe said, on March 20, 2014 at 8:40 am

      If Bum begins to have a Cy Young type year, I think it will quickly become a national story. It’s too mind boggling otherwise.

    • chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 8:59 am

      I just don’t see it happening this year. I mean seriously, the guy is ONE year into a five year deal. As I mentioned earlier, there are incentives, options…it’s not like a lot of thought wasn’t put into the contract, and Bum and his agent signed it. I say after three years in (after the 2015 season) you consider a new deal. And maybe after this year at the absolute earliest (this if he is top 3 in the running for the Cy). Just my thoughts.

  27. unca_chuck said, on March 19, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    Bummie’s fine. He just signed the deal, and he’s set for a while. He ain’t complaining anyway. No need to do anything for a couple years. He signed the deal with his eyes (and nostrils) open.

    As far as Kuip goes, he did miss a lot of shit last year that he never did before. It seems as if he’s mailing it in a little. I don’t mind that much. Overall they are solid. I mean I dreaded the playoffs because my cable and radio were like 20 seconds off so I couldn’t turn Fox down and listen to the radio.

    • snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 10:01 pm

      Agreed. Kuip and Miller have been making little mistakes the last season or so. Wrong names, flubbing the calls, a little lost once in a while, etc. Small, but noticeable. Still fine, though, I’m not pining for the return of Joe Angel…

  28. salty said, on March 19, 2014 at 10:46 pm

    I enjoy watching with the mute on.

  29. snarkk said, on March 19, 2014 at 11:09 pm

    I know this is football, but zumiee started it. 😉
    I don’t really care about Kansas City football, but this is some classic stuff right here, outta Super Bowl IV. Hank Stramm was a bit of a preener, but the dude knew his football, and this is hilarious. Harbs should take a lesson in sideline behavior…

  30. Alleykat said, on March 20, 2014 at 12:08 am

    Hank Stram would steal the milk money from his own mom!He was sly as a fox, yet always the motivaitor the way he works the refs, and line judges, and chain markers, to get a call, or extra foot on the spot to keep the chains moving forward towards the goal line at all costs…

  31. willedav said, on March 20, 2014 at 7:41 am

    I liked Greenwald too; one of the *brass* who didn’t was none other than Larry Baer who s-canned Greenwald’s buddy David Glass too. Hank wrote a pretty good auto-bio, good read.
    Kuip is losing it, calling guys by wrong names, but generally less annoying than Kruk’s homerism to me.
    Sunday TBS guys I like would be Smoltz and Darling.

    Hank Stram was an easy guy to dislike if you were a Raider fan, but he was shrewd guy who knew talent when he saw it and how best to use it. Madden tells stories about getting in his head that are pretty funny. One centers around Stram complaining Raiders over watered the field to slow them down, a fact Madden disputes because drainage there was crummy anyway. But it didn’t stop him from telling Stram that Field crew let sprinklers run all night and he was sorry and wouldn’t let it happen again. Or that exterminators hadn’t been able to clear all the rats out of KC locker room in time (another complete falsehood that never happened) for them to dress, which of course freaked out all the players before game time.

  32. WilcoJoe said, on March 20, 2014 at 8:45 am

    According to Wiki, Orioles owner Peter Angelos let Jon Miller walk in large part to his candid criticism of the 0’s. Apparently he wanted an announcer who “bled more orange and black.”

  33. chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:10 am

    So, any movement on a mini-Flapalooza on the 25th?

    • zumiee said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:15 am

      I’m all for it!

    • twinfan1 said, on March 20, 2014 at 2:27 pm

      See what I mean? Ciao Bello…

  34. zumiee said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:21 am

    I read Greenwald’s book that Willie mentioned. It’s worthing looking for. Interesting that one of his big heroes is Douglas MacArthur. Greenwald went to the Philippines and walked in the water on the beach where the famous photo of MacArthur was taken of him striding ashore on his promised return.

    • zumiee said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:25 am

      There’s an awesome unforgettable depiction of MacArthur in Neal Stephenson’s novel “Cryptonomicon.” The scene is a Pynchon-esque description of bombs falling on the beach, and MacArthur never breaking stride, and barking out orders. Kind of like the Duvall character in “Apocalypse Now.”

  35. Macdog said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:24 am

    March Madness is underway, hopefully to carry us through these last couple weeks before baseball starts. Final Four picks anyone? I’ve got Florida, Michigan State, Louisville and Arizona. And the only reason I took the Wildcats is because it’s hard to find anyone else much better out of that bracket.

    • zumiee said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:27 am

      I’m pulling for Arizona, a western team to win it.

    • WilcoJoe said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:38 am

      I got Florida, Michigan St, Arizona and Duke. Florida over Duke…I tried to enter Buffett’s billion dollar challenge this morning, but registration was closed…Not a fan of this new “first round” that started on Tuesday…That really threw me off.

      • snarkk said, on March 20, 2014 at 10:05 am

        Buffet’s thing is reportedly a data mining scam for Quicken Loans…

      • WilcoJoe said, on March 20, 2014 at 10:38 am

        Yep…chance of winning the billion dollars =100 Gazillion to 1…chance of being cold called daily for a home refinance for the next five years = even money.

      • WilcoJoe said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:25 am

        I had Dayton beating Ohio State…Just think, I would be tied for first in the Billion dollar bracket 😉

    • Bozo said, on March 20, 2014 at 10:16 am

      Mac, I have the same final four with Florida over Louisville to win. I picked AZ in the West because their fans should show up in San Diego and Anaheim and yeah, not much else in the bracket (although I do like Creighton a bit).

    • chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:49 am

      I’ve got Kansas, Michigan State, Arizona, and Louisville.

      • chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:51 am

        I have Michigan State over Louisville in the final.

  36. zumiee said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Speaking of books… author, Lucius Shepard, that isn’t all that well-known to the public overall, but is very good, passed away this week. He’s a big name in the sci-fi/fantasy genre. I think his stuff is terrific. I met him at a couple of book-signings. He seemed like a really nice guy, and weathered by the storms of life.

  37. zumiee said, on March 20, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Is anyone up for posting on the Flap during the Dodger/D-Back game late Friday night? Early Sat. morning, really, 1 AM Pacific time. It’ll be like watching a midnight movie, back in the day.

  38. Alleykat said, on March 20, 2014 at 10:16 am

    Just gruesome what happened to Adolis Chapman yesterday!
    100 mph, and hitting him flush in the face with no time at all to react!
    Thoughts and prayers for him and his family!
    There going to be changes eventually and that corny huge cap protector they want the pitchers to use ain’t the answer! There gonna need a full face guard hockey shield!!
    That line drive ricocheted into the 3B box and they immediatley called the game as they should have in ST,both teams were in total distraught..

    • Macdog said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:45 am

      That Chapman play was terribly frightening. Just read he’ll have surgery to insert a plate in his head to repair the fractures above his nose and left eye, but, incredibly, he should be able to return in a couple months. “He has a very mild concussion, no other brain injury, his eye’s fine,” Red medical director Dr. Tim Kremchek said. “He’s a very lucky guy.”

    • chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:56 am

      Yeah, I saw the aftermath of that shot…and where the ball ended up. Glad to hear that he will be okay. My daughter and I saw him throw 3 innings (guess the Reds were trying to stretch him out) against the Giants in their yard in Goodyear. He had some nasty stuff….

  39. unca_chuck said, on March 20, 2014 at 10:28 am

    Shit, I didn’t hear about that. Dude’s a pretty awesome pitcher.

    Chuck, I’ll see if Sandawg is coming up on the 25th. I think it’s up in the air at this point if he can make it or not.

    • chipower9 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:57 am

      Cool, keep me posted, Charlie…

  40. willedav said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:30 am

    Dayton flyers take out intra state rival Ohio St in great game, exciting finish, good for the A-10.
    Nobody likes Shockers huh? Guys can play I’m telling you.
    Like to see if anyone emerges as Cindy type team like Fla Gulf Coast last year. Of course they wound up in NIT this year and lost, and the guy who coached them wound up at USC and went 2-16 in conference.

    • willedav said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:41 am

      Only drag was having to put up with Raftery and Lundquist. Vern isn’t so bad but dang, these guys must have been there with peach baskets.

      • Macdog said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:43 am

        Raftery is an absolute delight to listen to.

      • willedav said, on March 20, 2014 at 12:09 pm

        Mac he knows his stuff, but all the little cutesy name rhyming jokes are lame. “The Kiss???”
        I’ll tell you who is truly annoying, Bill Walton. Last night during NIT game with USF he’s going on about attending Dead concerts at Golden Gate Park while the game is going end to end. Still talks about majoring in *Library Studies* while at UCLA and Wooden stuff in general. F, it was 45 yrs ago.
        Flems was on a lot out here and did Mtn West tourney, he’s pretty good, maybe better than baseball.

      • Macdog said, on March 20, 2014 at 12:24 pm

        Haha, yeah, he does have his pet phrases. “Onions” is my favorite. And I completely agree about Walton. I’ll never forget looking forward to going to the Nets-Lakers ’02 final in NJ just so I wouldn’t have to listen to Walton doing the games on TV.

      • snarkk said, on March 20, 2014 at 12:36 pm

        Send it in, Jerome!…

  41. twinfan1 said, on March 20, 2014 at 11:30 am


  42. willedav said, on March 20, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    Harvard hanging tough with Cincy, 2 pt lead with 7 to go. Lot of Stanford bloggers unhappy with Dawkins regime are up on Amaker. I dunno, maybe Ivy League is his level, coaching and recruiting vs. guys who wind up on wall St. as opposed to one and dones headed for NBA.

    • Macdog said, on March 20, 2014 at 1:29 pm

      Not a good day for the big boys from Ohio.

      • willedav said, on March 20, 2014 at 1:36 pm

        yep. dreaded 5/12 match up. Maybe one of those guys is next Jeremy Lin.

  43. snarkk said, on March 20, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    These 12/5 “upsets” are upsets only if one thinks that the rankings and polls are accurate during the season, the RPI means a lot, and the NCAA selection committee is doing these seedings based on nothing but perceived merit (such as Pitino vs. his former player in round 1). I don’t buy any of those propositions…

  44. snarkk said, on March 20, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    Now A-Fraud won’t even pay his lawyers for helping him get his suspension reduced 50 games and saving him about $6 million. If you won’t pay your lawyer who just made you money, that is really low… 😉

    • unca_chuck said, on March 20, 2014 at 3:50 pm

      A-Rod’s douching it up to the bitter end. Good for him.

  45. zumiee said, on March 20, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    Giants/Pads game is on the MLB network tonight, live, at 7:00 Pacific Time, I think. I don’t know if it’s on the Comcast Channel or not, or the local NBC affiliate.

  46. WilcoJoe said, on March 20, 2014 at 4:11 pm

    Well I am officially 7/7 so far in my meaningless bracket…Wonder if ‘Ol man Buffett would have made me a take it or leave it offer?

    • WilcoJoe said, on March 20, 2014 at 4:16 pm

      You can follow my progress on the Quicken Loans Billion $ Bracket sorry registration is full app…I am “joe’s fabulous bracket” in the Hook ’em Texas fans pool.

  47. DJLoo said, on March 20, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    “Thoughts and prayers” last for about as long as it takes to type it. Possibly the most annoying cliche of the last decade. No picking on you, Kat.

    • DJLoo said, on March 20, 2014 at 4:26 pm

      “Not” picking on you.

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