A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Winning With Your Bench Guys

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on May 31, 2014

It’s almost as if Bochy is bored or something. Tired of merely winning games, now he’s trotting out line ups like this just to challenge himself:


If Wacha and the Cardinals can’t beat that motley crew it’s time to go back to the drawing board in St Louey.

A special treat: We get to see Oscar Taveras’ major league debut. This guy is the epitome of a minor league “crown jewel”. Super excited to get a look at him in his first game…….

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  1. blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 9:48 am

    GMen have 10 consecutive upcoming games against sub-.500 teams after this series with St. Louis is complete. Wacha is good, but as I have indicated before, the Cards hitters have been scuffling this season. So maybe they steal another win St. Louis???

    Yeah, I am looking forward to seeing Taveras, albeit, most of today I will be out hiking – so I will catch him another day . . . Agree with you that Taveras is a jewel . . . Him and Springer are the elite rookies this season (Abreu is too, if you discount what he did in Cuba). Anywho, these 2 guys are so good that they were drafted in all FL leagues I am in (anticipating their early arrival to the bigs).

    • blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 9:51 am

      By the by, a nice feel good column about the Giants from one of my favorite ESPN writers, Chad Dotson.
      His column is where I got the 10 game sub .500 competition line from. 🙂


      • James said, on May 31, 2014 at 10:51 am

        A nice article, but it repeats stuff that simply misses the immediate reality. The “weak” 2013 team had scored 5 more runs than this year’s team after the same number of games. The 2012 team scored 718 runs. This year’s team projects to score about the same number as the 2012 team. What’s startling about the Giants this year so far isn’t the run production — it’s the pitching. They are on pace to give up about 560 runs. If they keep that up, as I’ve lovingly and tediously pointed out many times, the offense could “crater” just as it did last year, and the team would still win 90 games.

    • Nipper said, on May 31, 2014 at 10:34 am

      Lets not get greedy.

  2. stickman said, on May 31, 2014 at 10:47 am

    Resting three key players, comprising roughly half of the firepower does seem a bit strange. But who knows, maybe the current high will effect todays lineup too. Will SF face Cueto next week? He’s the only top ERA starter whom the Giants haven’t had their way with (or at least sweated a bunch) yet. So far we can count Wainwright, Atlanta’s Persian Cat and good old Opie down there in LaLaLand.

    One could see, going into the season, that the Giants were capable of developing an intriguing offense this season. But it’s doubtful whether any of us were counting on 8 dingers from Hicks and just a couple less from Crawford, to say nothing of heavy RBI totals from our backup catcher. Key to this offense is that they have developed a winning culture of keeping on keeping on to the point where any of 8 guys in the lineup can cause an eruption. In that role, Pagan Baby especially stands out.

    • snarkk said, on May 31, 2014 at 10:56 am

      As it stands now, Giants will miss Cueto. Good for chances of getting a win, but I hope they see him in SF. They need to see him at least once to get a taste of his stuff for possible playoff familiarity…

  3. snarkk said, on May 31, 2014 at 10:54 am

    Bochy figures it worked before — sending out the white flag scrubs against a toughass pitcher, while getting some guys a day off — and they still won. Maybe Petit in this pitching mismatch catches lighting in a bottle, who knows? This thing with Posey and “nerve irritation” in the back is getting more mysterious. Marty Lurie said as much a few minutes ago, even mentioned the word “disc” in a hoping-it’s-not-that kind of way. Maybe he’s hearing rumors, dunno. Didn’t Tiger had nerve irritation in his back — before getting a disc operation? I’m crossing my fingers it’s not a disc. But, seriously. Put Posey on the DL, get whatever treatment is needed, and bring Quiroz or whoever up here to spell Hector once every 4 games or so. Hector’s not used to catching this much. He’s going to start losing D sharpness if Posey sits out while not actually on the DL. If Hector goes down in a game, does Posey come in? I hate the way the Giants put a guy on de facto DL for a week, don’t get a replacement body up, and they’re down a position man or two to the opposition in multiple games…

    • snarkk said, on May 31, 2014 at 11:03 am

      Bochy just said in pre-game chat that there’s a “chance” Buster plays tomorrow…

  4. ewisco said, on May 31, 2014 at 11:43 am

    usually bochy waits until sunday to mail it in.

  5. snarkk said, on May 31, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    What’s with Wacha hitting Blanco on purpose?…

    • zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 12:36 pm

      Probably retaliation for Wong getting hit yesterday. Although Wong actually kind of swung into the ball.

  6. Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    That dude has a beeeeautiful swing.

    • zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 12:49 pm

      I didn’t get Petit’s approach there, or maybe it was Hector. Tavarez seemed late on fastballs in his first AB, and then Petit gives up a homer in the second AB on a hanging slider. I know, I’m probably just second-guessing, but, hey, that’s part of being a fan. 🙂

    • snarkk said, on May 31, 2014 at 1:01 pm

      When will the Giants ever have any OFers in the minors that can hit like this Tavares dude apparently can? 2025? 2030?…

      • Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 2:57 pm

        It’s amazing how the Cardinals just keep on churning out top notch home grown talent every year. As much as I dislike them it’s easy to respect them……

  7. zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    It was frustrating watching Adrianza’s AB in the 5th. Let’s break down that AB:
    1. He fakes a bunt on the first pitch, and takes a fastball down the middle. Why fake the bunt there? Why not just BUNT! It was a great pitch to bunt on, use his speed, etc.
    2. He takes a big swing on the second pitch and misses.
    3. He takes a big swing on the third pitch and pops out to the infield.
    I don’t get his approach. He needs to bunt sometimes, and shorten his swing on his other ABs. Use his speed. I know, I’m repeating myself on this. I just hate to see him waste ABs. I’m a little envious of what the Dodgers have going with Gordon, and I’d like to see somebody, anybody on the Giants commit to a speed-game approach. The likely candidates for the Giants are Adrianza and Blanco. Blanco seems to have shortened his swing, and has stopped hitting a bunch of flyballs and striking out so much, and has raised his batting average a bunch. That’s great to see.

  8. zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    As K&K mentioned, the rain probably gets Wacha out of the game, and the game could be quite different when it resumes.

    • zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 1:23 pm

      Rain delay wasn’t long enough. It’s still Wacha pitching.

  9. Macdog said, on May 31, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    Hopefully this second rain delay will be it for Wacha.

  10. Macdog said, on May 31, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    Well, that didn’t matter. The Giants put, what, 2 balls in play in the last 3 innings?

  11. stickman said, on May 31, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    So we absorb our 20th loss. Welcome to the full club with this one. Oh well. A third of our lineup awol and our #6 starter doesn’t do too terribly awfully bad vs the Cards and their best prospect since Albert the Great parking a hanging slider. Hudson Terraplane tomorrow. Some posters were fretting a StL sweep. Others of us were hoping for a split. We already got that and Huddy in 20 hours or so. Big lead in the division while our less than front liners hold em to two runs over 8. Not exceptionally shabby. Thinking we’re still in their heads from ’10 and ’12 and the first couple games in this series. We go get em tomorrow and the Reds will not be looking forward to the next three.

  12. Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Damn, just saw that the Cards took Wacha one pick before us in 2012. We then took Stratton. I bet Sabean woulda taken Wacha, right? They sure as hell would take him now.

    • zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 4:45 pm

      Yeah, I read somewhere the Giants had their eye on Wacha in that draft. That Cards’ pick, of course, was originally an Angels’ pick, obtained from the Angels as compensation for Pujols signing with the Angels.
      Who knows what the Angels would have done with that pick. Maybe they would have taken Wacha, too, or maybe not.
      Who knows how Stratton will turn out. Maybe he’ll be a good one. Or not.

  13. Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    this is a very cool slo-mo shot in the rain of Taveras getting his first hit in the big leagues. Man, that is about a big a swing as you can put on, right? lol

    • zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 4:50 pm

      He missed a chance to do a doosh-bag Puig bat-flip at the end of the swing.
      Tavares hit that thing in the rain. If Petit could have stalled on the mound a little more, the umps were getting ready to delay the game. 🙂

  14. Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    Eric Karros was jacking all over his mic after Kemp rolled a ground ball through the infield for a 2 out RBi hit. It’s really shocking how far Kemp has fallen if Karros is jacking off to such a normal hit….

    • blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 4:59 pm

      In one of my leagues, Kemp is on the waiver wire. HAHAHA.

    • DJLoo said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:07 pm

      Flav: Don’t know if you’re rooting for CC to take the Triple Crown, but if it means anything to you, I’ve just been told by an impeccable source that his owners are absolutely despicable assholes. I like the horse but am now firmly against. BTW, tomorrow I get to run(?) down the Belmont stretch in their annual 5k charity event after the races. Gonna stay off the rail which has been a little deep lately.

      • Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:17 pm

        I can say that, without question, his trainer is all good. I’ve had beers with his son many times, they are good people. I’ll ignore the info on the owners because the Sherman’s are top notch people…….

      • Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:18 pm

        by the way, I’ll pay $50 for a video of you running the track tomorrow. Will paypal immediately upon receipt. This is a real offer! lqtm

      • DJLoo said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:26 pm

        You want the pan shot or the head-on?

      • Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:42 pm

        I absolutely want the head on and would pay $100 for that. Gotta be able to dq you and I KNOW you’re gonna be pulling out all the stops tomorrow!

  15. zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:00 pm

    MadBum had quite a month of May: 5-0, 2.07 ERA.
    Maybe a future playoff match-up, MadBum vs. Wainwright. The Giants made a nice statement yesterday regarding that match-up.
    Today Wacha defeated our #6 starter, with the Giants starting a bunch of subs. That’s a lesser statement.

    The off-day on Monday pushes the Cain/Petit start to next Saturday. Hopefully Cain is ready; but Petit did a pretty nice job today. Mostly kept the ball down, and was throwing lots of strikes.

    • DJLoo said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:09 pm

      He throws too many strikes. That’s his problem. Did you see the 0-2 to Taveras his first time up?

  16. zumiee said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    Coincidentally, in the MLB draft that’s happening in a week or so, the Giants have the 14th pick, and the Angels have the 15th pick. The Giants have a chance to get some revenge for the 2012 draft. 🙂

  17. Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    another total fuck up by a manager with the challenge system— Hurdle challenged a totally borderline call in the first, lost, now he can’t challenge that obvious catch by Marte in LF. Managers are either totally stupid or advised by more totally stupid…..

    • DJLoo said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:25 pm

      Baseball Reference now provides manager’s stats on challenges – scroll halfway down this page for Bochy:


      • Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:41 pm

        so he’s done better than the league average which is 45%. I swear to God, I would hit 90% if I was making the call. It isn’t that hard, just don’t challenge the bang-bang inconclusive ones. And yet time and time again, the thumbs up comes from the dugout to challenge. Baseball players are just stupid, I think…..

  18. Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    Decided to peek at Stratton’s stats now that I realize we were a pick away from Wacha. After doing pretty well in the SALLY he has struggled at San Jose. 10 starts, 5.09 ERA, still striking out a batter an inning but he’s no Wacha.
    Isn’t that a bitch? One pick here or there makes all the difference. My favorite SF Giant draft trivia question is “Who was taken the pick after The Giants took Tony Tocato with the 17th pick in the first round of the 1998 draft?”
    ….CC Sabathia, who played his entire career in their own fucking backyard.
    No worries though, we snagged Nate Bump a few picks later with the 25th pick……

  19. Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 6:40 pm

    Did Hurdle just give up after he lost the freaking challenge? Who leaves their pitcher in for 3.1 innings, 11 hits and 11 runs? Apparently, Hurdle was all in on that first inning challenge…..
    If Brandon Cumpton was wondering what the Pirates organization thought of him, well, he just shouldn’t wonder anymore…..

    • blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 6:46 pm

      Yeah, and he pulled McCutchen from the game too. Fucker. I had him on my FD team tonight. Fortunately, HanRam (sorry guys, but this is about money) scored me 21 points tonight. The most I think I have ever received from a position player in Fan Duel, not named a pitcher.

      • Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 7:10 pm

        nice. I faded HanRam today. If you didn’t have him in the pm games you lose. Eh, whatever. I’ve got angles a plenty for tomorrow’s card….

      • blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 7:31 pm

        Only Ross and Revere did jack shit for me this morning. I have 6 of 9 players starting in these last 3 games as we speak. Smly is key – he disappears, I wont have a chance.

      • blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 8:41 pm

        Well Smly is on pitch 97 and not even out of the 4th inning. So much for winning any money this evening. Pfffftttt!

  20. blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    Exciting Spurs and Thunder game . . . Spurs were down 49-42 at half and are now tied with the Thunder (49 a piece).

    • Flavor said, on May 31, 2014 at 7:07 pm

      I can honestly say that I haven’t watched a quarter of NBA playoffs since the Dubs were eliminated. Fair weather fan, I guess. Maybe I’l catch some of the finals…..

      • blade3colorado said, on May 31, 2014 at 8:37 pm

        Happy for the Spurs. Sounds like the Spurs have 4 days to rest before going against the Heat. Durant is a warrior. I think he played 52 minutes tonight. I feel bad for him. Thunder has no bench though and Durant has little help besides Westbrook, Ibaka and Jackson. Five frickin’ points from their bench. Pathetic.

  21. snarkk said, on May 31, 2014 at 10:50 pm

    NBA is a joke. What other league has the same two teams vying for the championship in consecutive years? Maybe 5 or 6, tops, NBA teams have a shot at the championship…

  22. Nipper said, on June 1, 2014 at 2:18 am

    Spurs over the Heat. My two cents.

  23. zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 3:57 am

    This mock draft has the Giants picking a pitcher:

    • zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 4:12 am

      Here’s their analysis of Hoffman:

      “Jeff Hoffman’s Player Profile

      Fastball – Hoffman’s fastball is a dynamic pitch when he’s on point, sitting in the mid 90’s and will occasionally touch 98. A few times this summer he’s been more 92-94, but based on his body type many scouts believe he’ll be the former more often. Will occasionally run in on right-handed pitchers, and if he commands it better it can become a truly special pitch.

      Curve/Slider – The coup de grace of Hoffman’s arsenal is his curve ball, a hammer of a pitch that has drawn Adam Wainwright comparisons. It has true 12-6 break, with good spin and he maintains his arm speed through the pitch. Hoffman also throws a decent slider that will flash average, but it’s the weakest of his four pitches.

      Change – Hoffman’s change will also flash plus, sitting in the low 80’s with good fade and arm speed, though scouts tell me he doesn’t have great feel for the pitch yet.

      Command – Hoffman right now is the prime example of a pitcher having good control and not great command. He generally keeps the ball in the strike zone, but he sometimes struggles with location and hitting his spots. He does have a clean delivery, though, and repeats his delivery fairly well, too.”

  24. zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 4:07 am

    Bleacher Report predicts a pitcher, too, but someone different:

    “Projected Picks

    RHP Dylan Cease, Milton (Georgia) HS

    RHP Grant Holmes, Conway (South Carolina) HS

    RHP Touki Toussaint, Coral Springs (Florida) Christian Academy


    There’s no question as to whether or not the San Francisco Giants are going to target a high school pitcher with this pick, only which prep arm the team has highest on its board.

    While he’s not quite as projectable as others due to his size (6’2″, 200 pounds), Grant Holmes is the overwhelming choice for the Giants, who have had some success with undersized right-handed pitchers before (see Lincecum, Tim).

    Per Baseball America:

    Holmes has some of the best present stuff in the class. He came out sitting 93-96 mph, touching 98 early in the season and then 91-94 in some later starts. His power curveball is one of the top breaking balls in the country, a plus pitch that flashes better. On the showcase circuit, Holmes was primarily a two-pitch pitcher with a seldom-used changeup. But the offering has become a legitimate above-average weapon that could become plus.”

  25. salty said, on June 1, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Sleepless night, Zumie? 😉

    Definitely a pitcher heavy draft, as Evans was saying the other day, doubt they get an impact OF’er to fill a need.

  26. unca_chuck said, on June 1, 2014 at 8:42 am

    Snarkk, the Heat is going to be the representative from the east as long as they stay together. The west is little more up for grabs.

    • willedav said, on June 1, 2014 at 9:43 am

      Interesting to see what happens if Spurs do win it. Lot of their fans afraid Duncan retires and takes Pop with him.

  27. willedav said, on June 1, 2014 at 9:41 am

    kinda funny (maybe) but Posey and Sandoval have exact same OPS .730 at this point in season. Pablo with better slugging (and more HRs and ribbies) Posey with better OB.
    Tho I can’t stand today version, the A’s of mid 70s being celebrated this weekend were a team I enjoyed watching–young Reggie, Joe Rudi, Bando, Campaneris and all the pitching…and of course Fosse before he became a sleep inducing broadcaster. Not easy to beat Big Red Machine in those days.

  28. Bozo said, on June 1, 2014 at 10:54 am

    I missed yesterday’s game, probably not a bad one to miss. Looking forward to a win today and on to Ohio.

  29. SanDawg said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:40 am

    Nice first inning–with even Arias getting in on the act!

    I like Mike Shannon, the Cards radio guy. However, listening to him call the action when the Giants are taking it to the Cards is great stuff. He just sounds so bummed out. Back in the day, his calls when Barry went deep on the Redbirds were just so full of bitterness—I used to love hearing him.
    I was just listening to him call the first inning today.

    • willedav said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:44 am

      yeah. Flav and his headlines, winning with the bench—when’s the last time Arias drove in a run, let alone 2?
      Nice shot from Posey too after top of order set the table.

  30. zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:45 am

    I raised an eyebrow at Blanco batting 5th, but can’t argue with the results of that inning. 🙂

  31. zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:47 am

    “Sleepless night, Zumie?”

    Ha! Yeah, Salty, I get insomnia occasionally. 🙂

  32. Bozo said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Send another nine to the plate in the Second?
    The game is on TV back here and for whatever reason I’m getting the K & K feed.

    • zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:52 am

      Speaking of TV, I have no idea what’s going on with the Saturday Fox baseball game of the week in my area. It’s on my MLB package, but not on my local Fox affiliate. That seems weird.

      • zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:53 am

        And actually, it’s great, because all the games during the “Fox time slot” on Saturday are no longer blacked out on the MLB package, apparently.

      • Bozo said, on June 1, 2014 at 12:00 pm

        Yeah Zum, I’ve noticed that. My cable has added mlb tv with the local sports station (Nats and Orioles) and also we’re getting the Fox thing you mentioned and TBS/TNT (not just the Braves anymore).

  33. zumiee said, on June 1, 2014 at 11:57 am

    Alright, I’m raising my eyebrow again at Blanco batting 5th.

  34. Bozo said, on June 1, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    I like Pagan batting every inning.

  35. Bozo said, on June 1, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    I didn’t think I could like Hudson more than I did, besides his playing, he’s one class act in my book.

    • SanDawg said, on June 1, 2014 at 12:47 pm

      Totally agree. That was a nice move by him.

  36. SanDawg said, on June 1, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    A shout out to Irish Kevin, as KNBR used that trivia question today about pitchers coming the Giants and having a sub 2.0 era after 10 starts. The last one to do it was Reuter, and others named were Mike Caldwell, Doyle Alexander, and Dave LaPoint! Great bit of trivia!
    I’ll give you one more I heard this weekend…………every conceivable inter-league matchup has now taken place at one point since inter-league play started EXCEPT for the Padres visiting Toronto.

  37. Flavor said, on June 1, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    new thread

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