THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Shady Evening Post, By Big Flavor

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 4, 2014

I love Rich Aurilia, always will. And I think it’s rad that he’s actually doing something with a career after baseball that doesn’t have anything to do with baseball. But I can’t support him re-tweeting a review of his wine that uses the word “pretty”. lol. Even if he just hit 90 points for the first time. You’re a baseball player god dammit, baseball players don’t use the word “pretty” unless they’re trying to score a whore past their prime in a bar that’s beneath them…..

richie

____________________

Now for some baseball talk: I am against signing The Panda. 100 percent >

I have been against signing him for a long time. We got the best years out of him. Celebrate that, don’t pay 100+ million for shit that’s already happened. I love him for what he’s done, will never forget him, but I don’t want to watch him play 5 more years, into his 30’s, while he’s fat and living off the back end of his baseball card. I do think Sabean will try to resign him, although his star power and post season production might sway dumb GM’s into overpaying. I will just sit back and hope the latter unfolds. You don’t pay 120 million and hope a guy won’t get fat(ter) and keep producing in the playoffs (if you get there) into his 30’s. Pay that type of money to someone who will be consistent and take you over the top. This year, that’s a pitcher. #freePanda

Play *anyone* at third base and sign a monster pitcher. That’s what this team needs to keep it going for the next 2 years. And keeping it going for 2 years at a time is all you can hope a team will do in this age of baseball……..

You’ll all champion me at the top of Flap Mountain after his demise, as long as we don’t sign him, trust me. Be the guy who laughs at the Yankees for fucking this up.Unfortunately, likely, you’re all still hammered off this 3rd trophy. But handing over 100+ mil to Sandoval is not the answer. Trust me and throw this thread in my face in the future if I’m wrong. It’ll be here, just like me. I’m rarely wrong.

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136 Responses

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  1. snarkk said, on November 4, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    I’m not going to disagree with you. Starting pitching looks problematic next year and several years beyond. Needs some kind of FA injection of talent. As for Pablo, I wouldn’t mind seeing him back for a reasonable price and length of deal. If he wants the Giants to trump the RSox, I hope it won’t happen. I don’t want to see a fat, injured Panda lug around a post-30 waistline on a $20M/year tab. If he leaves, I’ll miss him, but the Giants will move on. If so, I just hope they don’t fall to a 3b manned by some Edgardo Alfonso type, or a Jose Castillo look-alike. Pablo leaving now IMO would mean Posey manning 3b a lot sooner…

  2. paulinasia said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:04 pm

    To sign Pablo or not to sign Pablo is huge and needs to be decided first and soon because anything else the team does in this off-season will be affected by it. “We got the best years out of him. Celebrate that, don’t pay 100+ million for shit that’s already happened.” Completely agree with that. But I find myself, perhaps erroneously, and only time will tell, believing that at age 28, there still could and likely will be good production from him; it ain’t all in the rearview mirror… yet. If Sabean believes that, then I think he will indeed try to sign Pablo, maybe around 4 years, not 5, and maybe around $20m per, not more than that. 4 years at $80m, I would do. This team struggles too often to score runs; I just don’t see how you replace Pablo’s production (especially in the post-season, which, let’s face it, is always the team’s goal). Will other teams offer more than that? Apparently. Will Pablo go for the dough, or, as he’s hinted, prefer to remain a Giant, even if it means less money and fewer years? The kindling is laid in the wood burner, and the match is about to be struck….

  3. sfsarge said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:09 pm

    I’m into re-signing him, but not for what the market would demand for him. And it looks like 5/100 is a pretty universally accepted starting point. I don’t want anything more than 3, but I could live with 4. As far as pitchers are concerned, the only one out there I really like is Sherzer. Don’t see any big splashes like that coming down though. But, I think Sabes will probably go with an arm thsat would be a decent 3/4 guy. But hey, that’s why he gets paid the big bucks.

  4. unca_chuck said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    Panda was a train wreck for long stretches of this season. One where he was finally healthy for the whole thing, Is that worth a huge deal?

    Man, I don;t know,. I’d do 5/100 mainly because there’s no one out there who can do what he does, even if his hitting is scattershot, They can afford to eat the deal later on with all the goddamn merchandise sales he’s generated. If it turns into a BoSox/Yankees bidding war? Adios, Gordo . . .

  5. James said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    One of your top posts, BF.

    Their pitching problem isn’t bigger going into next year than it was after 2013. Cain, Lincecum, Zito, and Vogey all sucked big time — the starting pitching was an absolute fucking, unmitigated disaster in 2013.

  6. unca_chuck said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    I don’t think there is a one in 10,000 shot that Posey plays 3rd base.

    • sfsarge said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:28 pm

      So, you’re saying there’s a chance?

  7. James said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:33 pm

    I’d like to see another lefty in the rotation. The O’s Chen is an unspectacular arm who would probably put up better numbers at ATT, but I just saw that there’s a team option for under $5M.

  8. zumiee said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    I’ve always appreciated how Sandoval has never (to my knowledge) complained publicly about the ballpark robbing his batting numbers. At the risk of using the “c” word again, I think one of the keys to the Giants’ chemistry is having hitters that don’t complain publicly about the ballpark. Pablo hits a 420 foot fly-out to triple’s alley and just kind of shrugs it off. Huff did that well, too, in ’10. The ballpark favors the pitchers, and the Giants hitters have to accept that, and know that the park has been a key to winning championships. All that to say, I hope the Giants re-sign Pablo, but I would only go as high as 5 years/90 million.

    • James said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:49 pm

      I do wonder if all those 60s Giants teams that finished second actually had the right chemistry, but were foiled by the playoff structure.

      • zumiee said, on November 4, 2014 at 11:05 pm

        Actually, from what I’ve read, they had lousy chemistry. I don’t know if it affected their on-field play, but there was racial tension in their clubhouse, especially when Alvin Dark was manager. He was a very divisive character. That was true of a lot of teams in those days. Baseball was integrated, but there were still issues regarding race on teams at that time.

      • wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:03 am

        what playoff structure?

      • James said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:03 pm

        Well, yes, wsw . . . 🙂

  9. James said, on November 4, 2014 at 10:43 pm

    An entire IF of above average, age 28 and under players is damn appealing. I won’t complain if they do sign Pablo . . . .

  10. Macdog said, on November 4, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    Maybe Pablo signs with Yanks just so he’ll look thinner wearing pinstripes. Or is that with horizontal stripes?

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:05 pm

      lmao…good one, Mac.

  11. Macdog said, on November 4, 2014 at 11:34 pm

    Three of a kind: https://twitter.com/SFGiants/status/529747466006966272/photo/1

  12. zumiee said, on November 4, 2014 at 11:53 pm

    The Dodgers are hiring Farhan Zaidi as their General Manager. I’d never heard of the guy. He was Assistant GM in Oakland.
    Hey Dodger fan, how do you feel about that hire?:

    Who the fuck is Farhan Zaidi?

    by Jack Huber on Nov 4, 2014 | 7:35 PM reply

    • DJLoo said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:00 am

      Isn’t he the guy that assassinated RFK?

  13. zumiee said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:01 am

    Brian Wilson says to the Dodgers: “I’ll be showing up next season, and you’ll be paying me 10 million dollars.”

    LQTM.

    • paulinasia said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:19 am

      Yeah, I’m still chuckling at that one too, Zum.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:09 pm

      That was some of the best baseball news of the year…Wilson exercising his player’s option. Gotta love the bumbinos…

  14. paulinasia said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:19 am

    As for pitching, I might be in the minority about this, but they might really need just 1 addition (albeit, a very strong addition, front end of the rotation). Bum, Cain, and Hudson (probably on a shorter leash in 2015) should be fine. Petit has been great in his role, but how often do you need that role? Less often than every 5th day, i’d say, so I’d put Petit in the rotation. Thus, need 1 addition. Voggie? I think they’ve ridden that horse as far as they can. Peavy? I was “all in” on Peavy until he proclaimed his man-love for the Cubs before face-planting in game 6, so fuck him. Timmy cannot be trusted (until he proves otherwise; maybe he could take over Petit’s long-man role). I doubt that 1 addition would be a Sherzer, but I trust Sabes to find the right guy. And remember, some of Sabes’ trades have been better than his signings, so we could see a nifty little trade in the off-season.

  15. Flavor said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:02 am

    Hey, who doesn’t like Pablo? I love Pablo. I appreciate what he’s done. But what is his national image? He’s seen as some type of modern-day Reggie Jackson. In fact, he’s probably seen as something better than that because of the strength of his last 2 post seasons. Can you imagine the media pressure on teams like Boston and NY to sign this guy?
    And we all know that his last 2 post seasons is just simply not who he is. And he’s only getting older. And, likely, fatter. But even if he stays in reasonable shape, do you want to watch him produce average numbers for long stretches of the season for 100+ mil?
    Not me.
    And the argument of “who will play 3rd?” is dumb. If we sign a dominant pitcher with that $ I don’t really care who plays 3rd. Find a “David Freese” or even a “Pedro Feliz.” Our offense sucks anyway, it’s not like it would suck that much more with a guy like that manning 3rd. In fact, for long stretches of the last TWO regular seasons, Panda WAS that guy (minus the big bucks he was pulling in at the Dugout Store with those dumb Panda hats that Loo wants to affix to his next lady). lqtm…

  16. Bozo said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:12 am

    I really think the three-year, $40 million offer the Giants made at the start of the year was really about all they were willing to go. I think they would be willing to go more in dollars (65 – 70 mil?) but not much more in years (club option for 4th year). So I assume the Panda will sign a huge, long term deal with the Red Sox.

    Who will the Giants get? I’m not sure, Sabean did say Posey would not be playing Third next year, so we’ll see. One thing that Sabes says, and since the Rowand deal seems to have stuck with, anyone he signs for longer than a year has to want to be in SF. That, added with an evaluation of what a player brings to the table and keeping a core group, seems to be the winning formula for the Giants. I also think that is how they’ve approached re-signing players, so with that, these are my guesses for our own FAs.

    Panda – the Giants will stay within their comfort zone for the amount of years, if Pablo wants to go for the gold (I wouldn’t blame him), fans can store those Panda hats next to the Bonds rubber chickens.

    Morse – Although I don’t agree with this, the Giants will probably offer him a two year deal. I’m not sure if the money will be enough because AL teams needing a DH will be on the hunt.

    Vogs – Like last year, he’ll probably be put on the back burner until the Giants see what is out there. If he stays it would probably be for another one year deal.

    Romo – I think the split may have already happened.

    I didn’t really go out on a limb on any of that, did I?

    • Nipper said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:18 am

      Bozo you’re always on a limb and I got this itch to try out my new power saw. Damn this is going to be fun!

    • Bozo said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:06 am

      Nipper has an itch and a power saw, this could get messy.

    • wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:06 am

      Romo told MLB radio he wants to be here…there is no split.

      • Bozo said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:31 am

        I’m glad you settled that ws. I’m ok with Romo, looked to me like he was a team player after losing his closing job, but I thought there hadn’t been any contract talks at all with him this year, no? If he isn’t looking for Closer money maybe there isn’t a split, but if he is…

  17. pawliekokonuts said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:48 am

    My heart tugs toward keeping Panda, but it’s hard to refute your case. Pitching, pitching, pitching. Plus, we sure have a habit for over-rewarding past success — well, so does all of baseball.

  18. pawliekokonuts said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:54 am

    So, Joe Maddon offered to buy everyone in the room a shot and a beer as the Cubs’ new manager. I imagine Rick Renteria was not present. I’m just glad Maddon won’t be managing the Dodgers. BTW, I am told that any joint in Philly offers the “citywide special” at happy hour, a shot and a beer. OK. Back to my regularly scheduled recovery regime.

  19. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:07 am

    Unfortunately for Richie, Bochy only drinks wines rated 94 and above so “pretty” ain’t gonna cut it in the Giants clubhouse.

    I like Sandoval and hope they keep him. 5 @$100M should be the ceiling though. Yeah, that’s a lot of dough but that’s what it will take so i fall in the if someone will give it to him he’s worth it camp. With Hudson and Lincecum coming off the books next year I think the Giants can swing it along with another decent arm. Unfortunately I don’t think Sandoval will go for the $100M. When I hear “I want to retire a Giant” it tells me he wants the long term deal and no way the club should go beyond 5 years. So sign Cueto already.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:16 pm

      Hudson is not coming off the books, Dirt. He is signed for 12 mil. next year (23 mil deal that paid him 11 this year).

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:21 pm

        That’s what I mean, chi. Next year. At the end of the year. Along with Lincecum.

  20. willedav said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:23 am

    Sorry Flav but you and I don’t see eye to eye on Sandoval. Yes, his power numbers have dropped but I think he is a fine 3b and solid middle order bat. He hit over .300 as a LH batter and over .300 in clean up spot as Giants were middle of pack in NL (definitely not piece of shit) for runs scored, BA OB and slugging. If you are not going to re-sign Morse, who had second highest OPS on the team after Posey (and yes higher than Pence), then you are taking 2 bats out of the LU—result being fewer runs scored, guaranteed. Why weaken what you have with pitching being problematic and #1 area of concern?

    I think it very much matters who replaces him, both defensively and offensively, and there simply aren’t quality 3b out there. Chase Headley is the poor man’s Sandoval–he’ll cost you at least half of what you would pay Pablo, and is worse at the plate. He had one good year at SD and sucked ever since. If he didn’t like hitting at Petco he isn’t gonna like ATT much better. Duffy and Arias? pls, none of those guys are getting near .700 OPS and are likely not as good in the field either. Why f-up a solid IF you already have? Are you asking Sabes to go get a LF, 3b, and a couple pitchers in an off season where offense is already hard to come by? Last time Sabes had issues on IF Giants wound up likes of Jose Castillo and Miguel Tejada, Font, and OCab.

    This isn’t anything personal, but the *fat fuck* stuff bothers me. I think the idea he gets fat and happy and balloons up with a nice contract is ridiculous and insulting. Giants challenged him to get in better shape before 2014 and he did, on his own, at least to the point that SF was OK with it. If Bochy felt he was in good enough baseball shape to play him all year, I’m not gonna argue with that.
    We saw him rake during post season against some of best pitching staffs around—how much did he weigh? 250, 260 280? No one here knows, and I don’t care as long as he plays well.

    • DJLoo said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:45 am

      I used to think the late Tony Gwynn would’ve hit .400 if he was in shape, but maybe losing weight would mess with the hitting mechanics of the heavier guys. It might decrease the circumference of their swing or something.

    • Flavor said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:58 am

      WD– I’m going to disagree with some major parts of your post. The Giants didn’t “challenge” him to get in better shape. He did it for $$$$, pure and simple. The Giants have been EXASPERATED with his lack of conditioning for years and it wasn’t till he had his walk-year come up that he finally did something about it. So to think he’ll get fat again once he signs a big deal as an older, aging player is something totally in the realm of consideration.
      Secondly, Pablo has an old body for his age. He’s an old 28. That is not even arguable. You don’t carry all that weight around your entire life and not have it drag heavily on your organs and joints. Losing it for 8 months doesn’t reverse all of that. It simply doesn’t. I’d put his body more like a 33 year old, at least, than 28. So if you want to give him 5 years just know that there are massive risks involved that no one is making up. His past history suggests he won’t keep the weight off, there was a clear obvious reason why he lost the weight (for $$$$) and he’s got the oldest 28 year old body of anyone out there. And remember, this guy has played baseball year round his entire life. OLD 28, man. Everything I just said is fact, not conjecture…..

      • willedav said, on November 5, 2014 at 8:35 am

        His body held up well enough this year for over 600 PAs, second on team only to iron man Pence, plus post season, where he was in the LU every day, raking and playing top flight D. He was obviously in good enough condition to still be going strong at end of year when he was one of better players out there.
        So whatever pre season and in season conditioning he did worked OK, supervised by Giants staff or not
        If you don’t think he can or will maintain that going forward, I understand.

  21. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 8:42 am

    Yeah, I’m in the 5/100 crowd as well. I don’t think they should go higher, and I’m about 80% sure he’ll get a better offer, so it’s a done deal regardless. Fuck the money though. These owners are rolling in dough, and have been prudent about doling it out, so they can go after Pablo and still get a pitcher.

    Dismissing Pablo’s production is fine until we have a guy like Perez manning 3rd. Then it becomes a big problem. We are always one injury away from going into the doldrums of no-hit-land, and we certainly saw that this year. If Pablo falls apart at 40, fine. He’s got 5 years in him. If not? Oh well. Charlie can crank out more Panda hats to cover it.

    • zumiee said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:05 am

      If the Giants don’t re-sign Pablo I’m a-scared at what we could end up with at 3B. I love me some Sabean, but he’s been known to dumpster-dive a time or two.

  22. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:13 am

    Between Affeldt, Hudson, Lincecum & Scuttaro that’s $41.6M+ coming off the books at the end of next year. You probably only have Affeldt with a chance of coming back but even then findings arms is a front office strength so maybe not. With 3M fans a year and merchandise flying off the shelves it is hard for me to believe the club can’t retain Sandoval and add an arm. That basically leave LF to address.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:22 pm

      I agree, Dirt. They can, and will afford both Pablo and an arm. I don’t think it will be a top of the rotation guy, but Sabes, Evans and Tidrow will find someone serviceable to fill the hole.

  23. zumiee said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:14 am

    Dodger fans are divided over their new GM:

    bobbie17 says:
    November 5, 2014 at 8:43 am
    You think this stuff makes a difference? It’s THE PLAYERS. For me, only desperate teams make these moves. We are acting like the Cubs. Great. The Cubs of the West. Giants must be laughing all the way to the bank. I can’t believe a lot of you think this makes a difference. Nice headlines. Just like the Dodgers.

    Log in to Reply ◦ Mark TImmons says:
    November 5, 2014 at 9:57 am

    Yes, I think this makes a big difference!

    Log in to Reply ■ Badger says:
    November 5, 2014 at 11:45 am

    b17’s point is valid. How do we change a twice times Division winner into a late season hungry, PERFORMING, team in the coming years?

    Log in to Reply artieboy says:
    November 5, 2014 at 12:01 pm
    DePodesta came from Oakland. Of course different owner, different tv deal. Hopefully he does well. MIT graduate, PhD in economics…awesome is right. My kind of guy. Wonder what his dissertation was on?

    • zumiee said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:14 am

      “Wonder what his dissertation was on?”

      LQTM.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:44 am

        That one had me laughing out loud.

        THe thing is, the Dodgers look like they’ll just continue to throw money at their perceived problems.

      • James said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:49 am

        I think it was called “Elastic Markets, Marginal Costs and The Laffer Curve: A Study on the Effects of Clubhouse Chemistry and Panda Hat Prices”

      • zumiee said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:38 am

        🙂

      • pawliekokonuts said, on November 5, 2014 at 11:15 am

        James garners an EPOTD, an Erudite Post of the Day

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:24 pm

        Yep…that one had me LMAO. Fuck the fucking fuck bums.

  24. wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:10 am

    I said it last year and I’ll say it again now regardless of “the market”. No way does Panda deserve a Pence contract… Pence wanted to be here too, and signed before free agency.. has Panda?.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:26 am

      Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.

      • wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 11:50 am

        I should have said the years… 5 is a very long time.

  25. salty said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:10 am

    I dont know chuck. Maybe that’s why they are hiring from the A’s brain trust.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:55 am

      Well, the Dogs will likely have a few defections in the next few months. Curious to see what they do about it.

  26. stickman said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:56 am

    NO WAY to a 5 year deal for Sandoval. Just too many extended risks in such a scenario. But if i were in Sabean’s position i’d offer him $65M for three years ~ up from $40, mind you. Firm offer. No bends or twists, but maybe with a two-year club option for, say, $35M. Meaning: If Panda really, truly likes being a Giant, he will get his $100M for 5 years, IF he performs and stays in shape. Otherwise, that $25M uptick in the 3-year offer is a helluva fine reward for services rendered and does put him in position to re-sign for that extra bump for another two, or seek greener pastures at age 31. To me this scenario is win-win. AND the team can afford it.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:28 pm

      I have said a number of times recently that the team will sign him, Stix. And I think it could be for five. Four with a club option is my preference. But I like your spin of 3/65 with the 2/35 as option money. If Pablo is motivated and does well, as you state, it ends up as a five year gig anyway.

  27. twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2014 at 11:01 am

    If Pence is the energizer, Posey the Face of the Franchise, MadBum the heart, Panda is the soul. Pay the man, his worth goes well beyond the numbers- which are excellent when factoring in his defense. I’ve heard a lot of- “I’d go four, but 5 years is too many” What the fuck is that? If he’s producing after 4 years, everybody would be bitching that he didn’t get a 5th. The decision should come down to whether they want him at all, not for how long.
    IMO.

    • pawliekokonuts said, on November 5, 2014 at 11:18 am

      Now you got me leaning Panda-ward. I gotta say, I’d sure find it hard to see him in another uniform. Sentiment aside, it’s all a bit of a poker game, and I’ll place my bets on Sabes. Those rings on his fingers speak volumes.

    • wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 11:53 am

      Mike… he could show he “wants to stay”…..he doesn’t need 5 years for that…he’s young and could have another great payday….he’s practically worthless 20 to 25% of the time… against LH now…

      • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2014 at 1:03 pm

        Those L/R splits are often very fluid year to year. This year’s splits are what is “worthless” in negotiating a contract. He’s been very respectable against LHers in his career.

      • wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 1:58 pm

        This game is “what have you done lately”, and lately he stinks against LH….and also lately not much power…Whatever the brass does I’ll be behind them that’s just the way I roll, but I’m hoping no more than 3 at no more than 17.5M per…

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:33 pm

        Wins, I want some of whatever you are smoking. There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL that Pablo takes a three year deal at 17 per. Fuck, he will probably get offered six and 120 from the god damned red sox. I think the LEAST he would take is 4/80 and he would want any option to player option.

  28. James said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    One minor point in defense of Panda’s stats: the post season isn’t like spring training, a series of games that don’t count when evaluating a player’s overall productivity in a given year. There’s no reason not to factor those stats into his overall numbers for 2012 and 14. Too lazy to do the math, but those figures improve his season stats not a whole lot, but more than a little.

  29. Alleykat said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    Sabes always take cares of his W/S champs in general, that being said, Panda hopefully goes for 4 years,at 4/84. .Romo 2/25 works for me. Too much doubt in “Launching Pad in the Cove Strickland” not to warrant Romo a new deal.

    • gianthead said, on November 5, 2014 at 2:32 pm

      Kat, $25 mill for 2 years of Romo???

      You must give great Christmas presents. 8th inning set up guys are not worth more than $2 mill a year in a sane world. The lefties in Affeldt and Lopez got more because of their leftiness, Romo is not worth $6 mill a year. Do you pay him $6 mill for a couple of years just to keep him from the Dodgers. I wouldn’t…

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:36 pm

        Romo isn’t worth 6 a year but he got 6.3 this year. How in the hell did that happen? Another dumbass move by Sabean? (Yes, I am being facetious.) No way in hell he takes less than the 6.3 he got this year). 12 a year is inflated, I agree. But I think the team will resign Romo in the neighborhood of 2/14 or 15.

  30. Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    The Panda has been the first controversial player the Giants have had in a long time. keep him or let him go. So many good points to keep, Good BA, great fielding. But then BF brings up the other possibilitys. The weight. while I agree that the weight is a problem. I don’t see it as a problem for the next 5 years. Players like Sandoval are usually pretty stable till there mid 30’s. This would be the time to sign him. IMO. He will only be 33/34 at the end. Let him go to the AL then. The only thing that makes this iffy is the injury factor. If he goes back to his old ways and gains a ton of weight the injury factor goes up. there is no way he makes the plays he makes if he is over weight.
    Posey will not play 3rd base. He does not have the range to play there. They call it the hot box for a reason.

    • gianthead said, on November 5, 2014 at 2:19 pm

      Didn’t Posey start his college career as a shortstop? Posey obviously has the hands and arm to play 3rd. I think with his size he would be quick enough to play 3rdm

  31. Flavor said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    I 100% understand wanting to keep Panda. I’m just not in that camp. I just feel like there is too much risk involved in terms of him keeping off the weight and maintaining productivity as he heads into his 30’s, I still maintain that a guy who’s been fat nearly his entire life who throws his body around playing baseball literally year-long and nearly for his whole life is hardly a “young 28.” And I think that’s going to catch up to him. i recognize that it hasn’t happened yet.

    • Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:44 pm

      Totally agree that is why I put in the remark about weight and injury going hand in hand. Panda is a huge gamble. “If” he stays in any kind of shape, he could probably play at his current level for 5 years. but…if he lets him self go once he has his money…well all bets are off then.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:39 pm

      I absolutely respect your opinion, Flav, but we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don’t think his weight plays into it that heavily (pun intended) over the course of the contract.

  32. Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    The Giants signed Hudson to a two year deal, Scutaro also. and Pagan. Scoots didn’t play at all and Pagan was injury prone now. How do you not give Panda his due? and yet give those guys money?

    • Alleykat said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:39 pm

      You can add Aubrey Huff as well Kevin.
      Dude was nails in 2010,once he got the 2 yrs after that he stunk.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2014 at 1:07 pm

      Pagan got 4 years.4/45. Well worth it if he could stay on the field.

      • Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2014 at 1:36 pm

        Yeah. If is the working word there.

  33. Nipper said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    If the Giants are willing to “eat” part of a long term deal than Panda will stay. If not…… it’s goodbye and good luck. And he should get what the market will bear. Players careers are very short. I don’t blame them for gouging while they can.

  34. Nipper said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    Pablo deserves whatever he can command. The Giants have the option to say NO!

  35. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 5, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    What I’m taking from all of this is that fat truly is the last bastion of acceptable derision.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2014 at 1:28 pm

      Yeah, I’m sorry about the 350 thing, I didn’t mean it as anything but a silly joke. I agree with you. I hate all the derogatory “nicknames” for the guy.

  36. DJLoo said, on November 5, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    I’m pretty sure 5/100 is the starting point – nothing less. Red Sox might just blow that away. I want him back,
    but you have to draw the line somewhere, like the Yanks did with Cano and the Cards did with Pujols. Both turned down crazy money and moved on for crazier money.
    Besides, there’s no pressure to win till 2016.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 1:38 pm

      Right, DJ. I think any offer by the Giants under 5 years will be laughed out of Pablo’s agent’s hands.

      HE knows that the baseline is 5/100. I’d offer it and see what happens. Sure the Yanks/RSox need 3rd base help, if not desperately. They’ll bid each other up to 5/125-130. Again, adios.

      In other words, if the Giants are true to their word of wanting to keep him, and Panda is true to his word of wanting to stay, They meet at 5/100.

      He won’t sigh a 4 year deal with us or anyone else.

  37. gianthead said, on November 5, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    Chuck, will you give me those 10,000 to 1 odds???? I will put buck on that…I noted last week after the parade that I don’t see Panda back. He is the perfect solution for the Ted Sox. They have had a hole there at 3rd for a while that had not been filled consistently for a decade or longer. You get 3-4 years out of him at 3rd and then couple of years DHing after Ortiz retires, you are golden.

    Watch the Dodgers start circling just to drive the price up in the Giants. 6 years in the $110 mill range is where I think the Red Sox end up and don’t think the Giants will, nor should they, go there.

    I really think Posey is going to be taking ground balls soon at third. Posey starting half the time at catcher and the rest of the time at 3rd and 1st I think is a real option. Let’s face it. We saw how utterly exhausted Posey was at the end. He can’t be a offensive monster and continue to take the blows defensively behind the plate.

    Susac looks like he is capable of starting 80 games at catcher and my other prediction remains that Hector Sanchez will also get a look at 3rd. Arias filling in is sufficient.

    • Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2014 at 3:09 pm

      per my commet earlier. IMO Posey does not have the range to play 3rd. whether it is Sanchez or Arias, you lose offense. The Giants still have to address LF, possible even CF. This is another reason I think they sign Panda.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:43 pm

      He will get offers over 5 and 100, but if he truly wants to stay AND retire a Giant as he has publicly stated, he will take the home town deal of something around 5/100. And I will say it one more time, as I have said it quite often over the past couple of weeks. Pablo will be back. Book it. If he signs elsewhere, I will gladly eat those words and buy a round at a future Flapalooza.

  38. wilcojoe said, on November 5, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants try and lock up Panik to a long term deal much in the same way they did with Bumgarner. I think you will begin to see unproven, young talent get long term offers at modest deals very early in their playing careers. It’s really no different than investing in futures on the stock market. The financial risk if the player never pans out is going to be far less than that of overpaying free agents or being handcuffed to compete with those high paying suitors when payday comes calling. For the player it gives you guaranteed security, but still enough incentive to continue to produce in order to make “real hey” upon expiration of ones contact at a still relatively young age (ie. Bumgarner).

    • twinfan1 said, on November 5, 2014 at 2:54 pm

      I think it’s *way* early to consider a long term deal for Panik. Sabean: “Show me a full year and I’ll show you the money.”

      • wilcojoe said, on November 5, 2014 at 3:23 pm

        It’s not Sabean’s m.o. for sure, but I think you have a guy that will at worse be an adequate 2B for many years, and at best a perennial All-Star. Not sure Panik would accept, but certainly could be worth the risk. I just think it’s a strategy that other clubs will implement. If memory serves Friedman used the same strategy with some success in Tampa Bay(Longoria comes to mind). Will be interesting to see if he does the same thing in LA. Dodgers ownership may see this as the most fiscal responsible strategy, especially if you can grow from within.

      • gianthead said, on November 5, 2014 at 3:57 pm

        I’d give Panik a 5 year deal…for a whole $5 mill:)

  39. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    I just don’t think Posey would be even an adequate 3rd baseman. He’s either 1st or catching. And he’s getting pretty good at 1st.

    Unless they trade Belt, which is a distinct possibility as a chip for 3rd base or a pitcher, they won’t move Posey for a couple years anyway.

    • Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2014 at 3:18 pm

      Agree with your Posey comment, do you think Belt could learn LF?? Anybody think Belt could play LF? Have not seen him there enough to have an opinion

      • wilcojoe said, on November 5, 2014 at 3:31 pm

        Belt was drafted out of high school as a pitcher but the Horns moved him to 1b. So he must be a pretty good athlete and could handle it adequately. But like we all say, you do weaken 1b, LF, and C by making any position changes. However many of the scouts and experts keep saying Posey has to move away from C soon or you risk a long term decline in production. Can’t say that I disagree.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:12 pm

        Hence the Belt trade. If anyone goes it’ll likely be him. Unless he skyrockets to glory next year. Certainly possible. He has it in him. And I’d love to see it.

        If push came to shove I’d take Belt in LF over Posey at 3rd every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    • gianthead said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:01 pm

      He may not play 3rd…but think if Panda is not coming back, someone is going to be quietly hitting some balls to Posey at 3rd.

      Twin or Pawlie, how many former catchers moved to 3rd in recent history over let’s say the last 60 years?

      • Flavor said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:15 pm

        I think there’s a 0.1% chance that Posey ever ends up at 3rd base (unless it was an emergency and Bochy ran out of players for some reason)

      • zumiee said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:38 pm

        Posey played shortstop for a season or two at Florida St, and there may be a reason they suggested he switch to catcher.

      • Bozo said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:45 pm

        Well, over the last few years, Pablo moved from catcher to third.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:45 pm

      Agree Charlie.

  40. Irish Kevin said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    Craig Biggio is the only one I really remember being a catcher and was moved to 2B, but here are his playing positions for his career. Those are games played at each position

    2B Totals 1,989
    C Totals 428
    CF Totals 255
    LF Totals 110
    RF Totals 2
    20 Years 2,784

    • zumiee said, on November 5, 2014 at 4:57 pm

      I think Johnny Bench played some 3B near the end of his career, but I can’t remember if he played it well.
      Bob Brenley was a disaster trying to play 3B.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2014 at 5:22 pm

        Brenly made more errors in one game at 3rd then Brooks Robinson made in a career. lqtm.

  41. FanSince59 said, on November 5, 2014 at 5:10 pm

    Panda for 100+ million is just not a wise choice. BB players are paid for the past success, so their future is always a big question mark…The Giants have the money for sure to pay Panda. Whether they want to spend it is another issue. ATT Park debt is either paid off or is real close….But as far as Sandoval’s return on investment potential, I have my doubts. ( and I really like what he has done for the team!!!), I think he is so mercurial he will be difficult to get four , five or seven years of consistent play out of him!..I think there are much bigger issues than third base that need to be addressed!!!…first and foremost is SP…We have MadBum and maybe Cain, that’s it. Hudson, though I like him is a number 4 or 5 at best. Peavey might be a bit better, but i think he is headed to the Cubs or Atlanta (or, maybe Florida). We are stuck with Lincecum for another year because he is earning 17+ million. Hopefully, he can reinvent himself. But will he be a starting pitcher we can rely on? I have my doubts!!….. Vogey is through as well. Petit?…So, IMO we need a Lester or Shields or ?..and what about left field? Is Ishi the answer?I hope so, but I’m not sure. He’s really a strong first baseman and I think another team will offer him a start at first. If that doesn’t happen, I know Ishi will be working on trimming himself down to get more “fleet of foot. And he’ll work on fielding tactics as well, but is he the answer?….Back to third base? Who else is there? Headley? Posey ( he played SS in college – so he might be a good fit)? Maybe Duvall get’s a real chance…I’m glad I am not Sabean, because no matter what he does, someone is not going to be happy!…There are certainly big decisions and lot’s of question marks!!!!

  42. DJLoo said, on November 5, 2014 at 5:13 pm

    I think Torre’s the one who pulled it off best.
    Bench played a fair number of games at 3rd.
    Many others just dabbled here and there.
    I feel like I’m forgetting someone obvious…

    • SanDawg said, on November 5, 2014 at 5:27 pm

      I don’t think your forgetting any significant catchers making that move. Remember Carlton Fisk in left field?
      I’m down with offering 5/100 to Panda.
      I think Buster could handle 3rd pretty well.
      Not sure anyone mentioned this, but another great moment (and one of the commentators on Fox noted it) was Buster flashing a quick smile at Bum on the final popup while the ball hadn’t even come close to reaching its apex.

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:48 pm

        I remember seeing that when watching the game (the quick look between Posey and Madison) before the ball was caught. I even re-winded it to see it again. That was an awesome moment that got lost in the magnitude of the ending of the game.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:36 pm

      Pablo?

  43. blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2014 at 5:20 pm

    I’m not going to retract what I said the other day . . . I’m with Zumiee (OH OH) on 5 years/$90 million. As I said previously, anything significantly above that is an “insult” to Pence. Essentially, I think we will be overpaying Panda at 5/90, but it’s not like that’s a precedent. More important, ALL TEAMS do this. I think of it as a “bonus” check for services rendered in the past (specifically WS performance).

    I have softened on Panda due to his performance in the most recent World Series. However, I really can’t disagree with anything Flavor has said about this situation. He is an old 28; the Yankees, Red Sox, and any other team that signs him WILL regret the signing, especially after seeing their numero uno prospect flourishing in our minor league system. Most important, Panda will regret leaving here. Fans have adored him (similar to Timmie) here. He wont get a pass like that in New York or Boston.

    There is ample evidence that Panda’s performance has been going south for years (sans his WS performance). I would rather see someone else make the “Prince Fielder” mistake then us . . .

    Good read on Panda, his free agency and his performance . . .

    http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dfjXd?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=san-francisco-giants

    • wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 5:57 pm

      Blade.. the team losing the FA doesn’t get the signing teams player…

      • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:05 pm

        You’re right wswins . . . I should have said:

        The Giants made a qualifying offer and the team that signs Pablo – who turned down the qualifying offer must then forfeit their first available pick in the next MLB draft. The forfeited picks don’t go to other MLB teams; rather, the rounds just become condensed. The player’s former team obtains one compensatory selection at the end of the first round, even if the team sacrificing a pick gave up a pick later than a first.

  44. paulinasia said, on November 5, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    With all of these viewpoints and comments leading up to signing Pablo or not, I’m really looking forward to reading everyone’s thoughts AFTER the Pablo decision has been made… 🙂 Flappers’ views on this are pretty much all over the map. What we don’t know: a) The thinking of Pablo and his agents: is he looking for the “big kill” now, or might he consider that there’s more than one big contract left, if he takes a shorter-term deal now? b) How much is enough for him? Get as much as possible? Or, is a certain figure ($100 for 5 seems the most common) enough to keep him where he likes to play (SF) no matter how much another team offers? c) The thinking of Sabes and his management team about the future of 3rd base. Do they have a plan for it already sans Sandoval? I doubt they’re of the viewpoint that it doesn’t matter who plays 3rd, “Oh, we’ll find somebody”… and d) How much influence does Larry “Keep That Panda Merchandise Flowing Off the Shelves” Baer have? I’m guessing A LOT…. I think they’ve got to keep Pablo, and it ain’t my money, so I don’t care, as long as the expense doesn’t limit what else they can do. And that’s another thing we really don’t know: this owner is rich beyond our imagination, but who knows the machinations of multi-millionaires behind closed doors. Maybe he’s a huge Panda fan, and maybe he only sees dollar signs. Kinda wish all of this hadn’t started so immediately after the Series ended…. but, here we go.

    • Flavor said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:03 pm

      I’m not going to freak out if we sign Panda I just don’t think we should. And I do think there’s a chance we get him at a discount and here’s why: Nobody loves to be loved more than the Panda. He wants it. He needs it. And unless he’s a complete idiot he should know that no town will love him more than SF. And no town will put up with his long stretches of mediocrity better than SF. And the SF media? They say nothing, do nothing, he knows he has nothing to fear from them.
      So you take 5 years/100 mil from SF or 5 years/120 from Boston? I think he factors everything I said in and could see him taking 20 mil less.

  45. wswins said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    Posey wants to catch. If he wanted to, he could play either corner IF spot.

    • Flavor said, on November 5, 2014 at 6:04 pm

      3rd base and 1st base aren’t even in the same ballpark. 3rd is significantly harder to play just from the standpoint of RH hitters at bat vs LH. ANd Posey doesn’t have the quickness or the range to play 3rd.

  46. paulinasia said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:04 pm

    Craig, agree with your 6:03, that Pablo would *probably* take less money (though not much, and probably not fewer years) to stay where he is loved. Who knows what his agents are whispering in his ear, though. Is his brother still one of those Panda whisperers? And then there’s this: does anyone think that sometimes, players just would like to try playing somewhere new? No matter how much they’re loved in a place, or how much they’ve won as a team? I mean…. are any of these guys bored already winning 3 championships here, and think, well, let’s try it somewhere else, something new? Or do they love this opportunity to be part of a *dynasty*, etc. etc. We fans certainly savor the consistent winning (and, imagine how much hatin’ on the team there will be if they manage to avoid the odd-year slump and can win it all again next year… “other people” are tired of it already). I’d like to think the players never tired of it, but I don’t know. Sometimes the grass actually is greener on the other side of the fence, in some players’ minds.

    • Flavor said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:35 pm

      I think you’re right. And I wrote a long post about me thinking you’re right and then I deleted it. Too many controversial comments.
      But you’re right.

    • DJLoo said, on November 5, 2014 at 8:08 pm

      It’s all about bucks, kid. The rest is conversation.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:02 pm

      Pablo has publicly said two things…he wants to stay in SF, and he wants to retire a Giant. I doubt he is trying to blow smoke up anyone’s ass. I still say he takes a “home town discount” somewhere around 5/100 (and I do believe he will get offers of more…probably from beantown).

      • Chico said, on November 6, 2014 at 2:10 am

        Damn, I said 5/90.. It looks like it’s going to take a lot more. Fingers crossed, and nice seeing ya, Chi!

  47. paulinasia said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    And as for Posey at 3rd, I kinda wish it had been 3rd, not 1st, that Buster had been playing sometimes. That would likely make it easier to let Pablo go. As it is now, it seems nobody but bloggers talk about Posey to 3rd. Doesn’t seem too likely. Trade Belt and Buster to 1st? I hate the thought of trading Belt. I’d probably rather see Pablo go than Belt, and i don’t even want to see Pablo go.

    • snarkk said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:38 pm

      Belt should not be traded. You don’t trade a Gold Glove 1bman about to hit his prime over the next 3-5 years, and still cheap, under club control with no near-term FA status (though arb eligible). I don’t see that move making any sense at all, regardless of what talent they might get in return. An expensive Pablo has to be the one to go if it’s between those two…

      • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:52 pm

        Agree Tom. Ironically, Belt was on my shit list as recently as early last season and I have come around on him as well. Regardless of what happens with Pablo, he is the one responsible for his happiness – not his agent, family, friends, team he plays for, fans, etc. So ultimately, it’s all noise or at least that’s the attitude he should be maintaining while going through this process. He can get a gazillion dollars and it will have zero or very little to do with his happiness. If he is enlightened (which I think he is. No one who isn’t smiles 24/7 like he does), he’ll do the right thing as he perceives it.

        Me? Regardless of his decision, I only wish him the best. Yes, I am on full “bask mode.” 🙂

      • salty said, on November 5, 2014 at 8:35 pm

        You might think to trade Belt IF you could get a GG 3b or OF about to reach his prime and controllable.

        Posey can then platoon with Ishi at 1b, catch other days. That limits the wear and tear.

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:05 pm

        Agree 110 percent on Belt. And I don’t see Posey moving anywhere for a few years, at least. Hell, Susac is a couple of years away from being ready to call games.

  48. Alleykat said, on November 5, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    It’s catching period for Posey.He loves it,he handles the staff brilliantly,hell he probably tells Boch what days I need a break and throw me over at 1st for Susac where I’m somewhat adequate.Posey’s probably thinkin, skip don’t even think about 3rd base,as the first guy drops a bunt on me and I either (a) bobble it barehanded(b) butcher it totally, or (c) make the play , then throw it in the stands like Dave Kingman use too!!!

  49. salty said, on November 5, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    Win 3 titles, I’m feeling pretty satiated and not at all worried about next yr. P!ay some more kids. Dip into the dumpster. I almost expect a down year anyway. Then they can reload for 2016 and go for 4 in 6.

    • salty said, on November 5, 2014 at 9:00 pm

      7

      • DJLoo said, on November 6, 2014 at 4:13 am

        6!

  50. chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:08 pm

    Good banter on Pablo, and to a lesser degree on Romo, etc. And I agree with Paul in that it will be interesting to read all the Flapper comments AFTER the Pablo deal is settled.

  51. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:35 pm

    Paul, I think teams out there have enough old timers hanging around to remind them just how hard it is to get one, let alone 3. Or maybe it’s just the Giants that do that.

    As far as the money goes, who hasn’t gone for the payday? There has to be more than just Tony Gwynn.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2014 at 10:40 pm

      Ripken…

  52. Chico said, on November 6, 2014 at 1:46 am

    I know it’s been over a week (forgot my password, etc).. Been taking care of my sick father.. Cheers on another championship, fellas! Fuck the hot stove stuff – I’m still on cloud 9.

    • Chico said, on November 6, 2014 at 2:07 am

      Although I wouldn’t go over 5 for 90. Shit, I’m not even comfortable with that contract. I know we need him but is he really worth it? Nothing over that, please! (I know, wishful thinking because the Brinks trucks are going to be backing up for other teams with cash to spend). Hey, you go to battle with what you have. If it happens, no pressure on the east coast, Pablo 🙂

    • Flavor said, on November 6, 2014 at 5:41 am

      sorry to hear about your dad, dude

  53. paulinasia said, on November 6, 2014 at 3:07 am

    I (perhaps naively) don’t think money will be the main deciding factor for Pablo. He and everyone else knows he’s gonna get paid, big time, whichever team and contract he chooses. I’ve read several articles about this off-season’s key free agents, and it has surprised me that Pablo is often listed about 7th or 9th out of the crop. For any team that has enough talent to get into the post-season but still lacks something to get to the Series and win there, hello, Pablo…. Valuable and under 30. Unless there’s a huge gap between offers, I think Pablo will primarily consider the place. Sounds like that would lean toward staying, if the gap in offers isn’t too dramatic. That might be a big if… I haven’t yet read anything in the way of hints from the front office about how it all might go this off-season; priorities, holes to fill, etc. We’ll likely find out very soon not by words but by their actions. What Sabes says is often red and smells like herring, anyway…. 🙂

  54. paulinasia said, on November 6, 2014 at 3:08 am

    Oh, and Craig, if you’re reading this, per your 7:35pm, sorry you deleted your post, would’ve liked to see it… controversial comments especially…

    • Flavor said, on November 6, 2014 at 5:42 am

      you know, it wasn’t awful or anything. It also wasn’t that interesting and it sounded a little racist and that wasn’t my intent. So, deleted it.

  55. unca_chuck said, on November 6, 2014 at 9:23 am

    I heard through the rumor mill that Pablo already signed with the Red Sox at 5/$120 mill.

    Probably bullshit, but . . .


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