THE San Francisco Giants Blog

6 Years is a Deal Breaker

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 7, 2014

Pablo’s agent says he’s firm on 6 years and if that’s the case, “bye bye Panda.” I thought it funny that he cited his age as the reason to do 6 years and that if he was 32 or 33 years old, less years might be accepted. As I have repeatedly pointed out, there is chronological age and then there is how hard that body has had to work over those 28 years. Organs, joints, muscle tissue—- all those things have been under major pressure sustaining his super-sized body throughout year-long baseball programs (with no breaks) since he was a kid. That body is EASILY 32-33 years old, maybe older.

So while I appreciate all that he’s done for the franchise and I wouldn’t be devastated if he returned on a multi-year deal, I am more than happy to move on from The Panda. Holding on to your sports heroes when common sense should prevail is one of the shortcomings on most fans….

___________________________________

A couple of Giants fans sent me this. Love it.

3in5

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133 Responses

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  1. blade3colorado said, on November 7, 2014 at 6:08 am

    Nice knowing you Pablo. No way, no how he returns if Team Panda wants 6 years . . . No one is going on a limb either saying it’s adios for the Panda. HE IS GONE.

    It’s also interesting to note, that the consensus from fans of other teams responding to the 3 articles I have read regarding this news breaks down like this: 1. The majority feels his agent’s demands are outrageous, considering his downward stats the last few years, notwithstanding his WS performance; 2. The Giants will be thankful in as little as 2 years (maybe one year) – when they see how that 6 year/gazillion dollar contract is working for Boston, New York, or some other team; and, 3. Fans will turn on him when he goes south in diet and performance.

    Too bad really, as he had a nice gig here. For us, turn the page and don’t look back.

  2. Nipper said, on November 7, 2014 at 6:20 am

    Can you blame him? His agent has to push for everything he can get while he can get it. We all would be doing that if given the opportunity. It’s the American way! The Giants will have to eat the back end of a long term deal. Failing that it’s goodbye and good luck to Pablo.

  3. Nipper said, on November 7, 2014 at 6:34 am

    Asking isn’t getting. His agent has to push the demands. The Giants will have to eat the backend of the contract if it’s a long-term deal. Failing that then it’s goodbye and good luck to Pablo.

  4. wilcojoe said, on November 7, 2014 at 6:37 am

    I totally agree with your last sentence. My six year old is obsessed with asking me who may favorite player is? I always tell him that I don’t have one. I tell him that I love and support the team as a whole…When the last out of the series was made by Panda as he fell to the ground, I began to tear up not just because we won a thrilling game 7, but the thought that this would be my last memory of Pablo as a Giant. Upon seeing my weeping self, my wife said, “your crying? Isn’t he the same guy you always curse at, every time he grounds into a double play.”

    • Chipower9 said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:12 am

      Outside of the conversation with your six year old (my kids are 27 and 30), I could have written this…was the same feelings and emotions I had at the time.

  5. willedav said, on November 7, 2014 at 6:59 am

    Hope this is just first round of negotiations posturing, but I’ve always lauded Sabes for avoiding deals like this for FAs, post Zito.

  6. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:29 am

    ¡Adios Gordito!

  7. gianthead said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:34 am

    6 years is fine with me but at $15 mill a year…don’t think they are settling for $90 mill deal…glad he is going to be a rich rich man and hopefully he is smart enough to not blow much of it and take care of his family. We loved you Panda and I never called you names!!! I had your back Brother on the Flap!

  8. Lurker John said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:41 am

    I tend to agree that the Giants won’t concede to the 6 year demand. That’s too much for just about any player these days, IMO. I’ve predicted that the G’s will bring the Panda back, but they may have really blown it by not signing him in spring training. As far as his weight goes, yeah it’s been an ongoing issue, which will do absoluely nothing to dissuade the Bosox or Yank-mes, but he also has a large frame and people with large frames can carry the weight better. Unless you’re a doctor, claiming his “real” age is this or that is pure speculation. Except for his hamate bones, he’s been pretty durable over the years.

    I’m just very concerned about who would replace him should he leave. This team is already starved offensively and losing Panda would do nothing to improve that. He’s also a very good defensive player. If he leaves, you have a huge hole in the lineup and on the field.

    • Chipower9 said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:15 am

      I agree with your post, LJ…especially about the concerns Pablo leaving would have on the team, both from a defensive and offensive point of view.

  9. Flavor said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:44 am

    Players and positions are constantly in need of attention. You buy time to fill that position by strengthening another. Normally, I’m against singing pitchers to big deals but if we don’t get this new Cuban outfielder I’d be inclined to spend some dough on a SP FA. I DO think Ervin Santana is a guy who makes sense and he’s about the cheapest guy out there who could realistically thrive at ATT….

  10. blade3colorado said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:54 am

    I’m down with another starting pitcher too . . . In fact, SI is suggesting that this dude from Japan would fit the Gmen perfectly . . .

    KENTA MAEDA
    Position: SP | Age: 26
    Current Team: Hiroshima Carp
    Best Fit: Giants
    2014 Stats: 11-8, 2.56 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, 7.7 K/9
    Maeda is the best Japanese talent available this off-season. As with Yasmani Tomas, his skills might not be on a level of those of his recently-arrived countrymen, but his predecessors’ success will help make him a hotly-pursued commodity, assuming he is made available. Scouts say that Maeda does not possess the pure stuff of Yu Darvish or Masahiro Tanaka, but that he has excellent command. The world champion Giants will have several open rotation spots after Madison Bumgarner and a presumably healthy Matt Cain, and could make a run at him.

    • Chipower9 said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:21 am

      I absolutely am down with adding some depth to the rotation. It needs it. Outside of Pablo, I see this as the biggest off-season need, and if the latest on Team Panda wanting six years is true, the leds saddle-up and add some pitching depth!

  11. willedav said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Giants are not starved for offense—they were middle of pack last year in runs, OB BA and slugging, and that of course was without much Pagan Belt and half season of Panik. I’m not sure Panik is a legit .300 hitter but given the load of crap that preceded him, having him around all year is a tremendous addition.
    Yes, replacing a guy who hit .300 as LH is not gonna be easy, but…return to 2013 form from a fully healthy Belt could go long way to assuaging that.
    Belt finished 2013 really strong, raking the last 2 months with a .915 OPS in second half. Sure the park hurts him but his road OPS was .900 and he blasted twice as many bombs there as he did at ATT. His slugging pct was .481 and he had just as many XBH per AB as Posey did.

    Bag a legit non 4/5 SP, definitely, whether it’s Peavey or not.

    • Chipower9 said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:22 am

      Agree on the Giants not starving for offense, but if Pablo walks, the O production will take a hit. Yes, maybe Belt can make-up some of that. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

  12. salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:29 am

    Well, it’s early in the negotiation. Not unusual to open high and settle on middle ground.

    • Bozo said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:47 am

      Agree salty, my guess is Pablo’s agent started at 6 and the Giants came back with 4. Since they tagged Panda with the qualifying offer they do get to revisit this.

      I did read somewhere that Sabean cuts bait pretty quickly if he thinks the negotiations aren’t going well

  13. salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:37 am

    As for those Cuban and Japanese players ….Tanaka and Castillo each got 7 yrs.

  14. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:44 am

    If I was Sandoval’s agent, I would look at those deals for Cuban and Japanese players and point out that Sandoval is a proven player at the MLB level. He’s worth way more. In dollars and at least equivalent in years.

    I guess what I don’t really get is the idea of a hometown discount. He’s got three rings and pretty good money on his last deal. He probably looks at Cain, Lincecum, Scutaro, Pence and Posey and is not interested in giving a discount and to be honest I wouldn’t blame him.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:48 am

      He should look at Bummie . . .

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:51 am

        For what? An example of what not to do?

      • unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:06 am

        Yeah yeah. Maybe money isn’t the only thing. Sorry for not understanding the idea that one could put the team over one’s self. All the talk that the extra 10-20 mill is a big deal is disingenuous at best.

        With Pablo though, it’s not like he’s moving his wife and kids to different schools and all that, but his future generations? Right. How will his great great great grand children survive on less than the $170 million he makes over his career?

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:16 am

        I don’t disagree with your point and that’s really the choice he’s making. Stay with an adoring fan base and maybe be part of a team that is looked back on as something really special or take as much money as he can. Don’t get me wrong. I hope he stays but it’s the rare person that will turn down more money and I’m not going to think less of him if he doesn’t.

    • Chipower9 said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:25 am

      Well, if he looks at Pence money and that looks good, then have him sign that fucking 5 year 90 mil contract now. If 5/90 is good enough for Pence, it should be good enough for Pablo. If not…see ya later big guy. I do want to see him stay, but 5/100 is about the limit I would pay, and I would prefer 4 with an option, but no way in hell Pablo ever takes that deal.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:32 am

        I think you’re misinterpreting my point. He sees all these other players signing for big dollars and thinks where’s mine? Pence’s deal being good enough for Pence is irrelevant.

      • Chipower9 said, on November 7, 2014 at 1:26 pm

        Micah – I am just saying that, IMO (nothing more than an opinion…which 99% of what is shared here is) anything Pence got should be good enough for Pablo. Sure, Pablo may feel differently about that. Based on what Pablo brings to the dance, I do not believe he is worth one penny more than Pence. That’s all.

  15. unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:48 am

    6 years is a no-no. Sorry. Posturing? Maybe, but someone will likely go there and the deal is done. 5/100. Shit why not 4/100? Sweeten the money per year but keep the length manageable.

  16. willedav said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:52 am

    Sabes admits he doesn’t have an in house replacement, and FAs are underwhelming.

    When Sabes goes dumpster diving for IF help look out (Bill Hall, Keppinger, de Rosa). Maybe that should be a thread—worst replacement IF moves in Giants history, David Greeen anyone?

    No idea what best position is for Duffy or whether he has arm for 3b, but he looks like a refugee. If he was a gal I’d say *anorexic supermodel*. Maybe as a rook he was banned from clubhouse spreads.

    • salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:24 am

      Well to be be balanced, think when he has gone dumpster diving it’s usually after all good options have been exhausted, the budget is tight, or it’s during the season (Uggla) and their isn’t much avail.

      Also done OK with dumpster finds like Huff Torres Vogelsong Petit Blanco Arias

      They lose the Panda, they would have the $$ to make a play for someone else. Hopefully not Hanley.

    • Bozo said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:33 am

      Don’t forget good ol Russ “Roose” Davis.

  17. Flavor said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:58 am

    I think a “home town discount” makes sense for Pablo from the standpoint of this: SF is a known quantity. There is little to no pressure on him here and everyone loves him. If he thinks he can get the same treatment in Boston or NY or Chicago then he should go there and take more dough. But if he’s smart about this and if he is getting good counsel he’ll see the “value” in taking a little less to stay in SF. And when we’re talking north of 100 mil I don’t care what anyone says, taking 20 mil less is “a little”.
    For the record, I’d give him 4 years 100 mil or even 3 years 90 mil and backload the final year. A a fat-clause goes into anything he signs. (just so no one thinks I want this guy gone at all costs. I don’t, I love Pablo).

    • Chipower9 said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:29 am

      This is exactly what I have been saying, and Loo even commented on my “little less” in relation to 10-20 mil. Sure, nothing to sneeze at, but in the grand scheme of things (all the positives of staying in SF), I do see it as viable.

    • wswins said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:48 am

      25 or 30M per year for Sandoval? I spit my coffee out reading that!

      • Flavor said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:06 am

        you drink coffee at 9:48am? Try getting up earlier and doing something with your day other than scoring a buzz off caffeine and complaining about every post you read on a blog.

      • wswins said, on November 7, 2014 at 1:26 pm

        How was that a complaint? that was a laugh…

  18. willedav said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:17 am

    One for Blade: Mom of friend of mine from work who is from small former SSR in central Asia went to visit girl’s husband who lives in Moscow and to conduct some business there. On way back, using Aeroflot, there was disagreement about fees etc.. Mom is US citizen and all of a sudden Russians wouldn’t accept her Visa or MC, nor US dollars. So she was stuck in limbo until son in law intervened with assistance from daughter who said she spent hours yelling at them over phone.

    Since they hate Aeroflot they previously flew from here (San Jose) to Turkey on Turkish airlines and tried to connect there to Moscow last trip year or so ago. And ran into same issue—nothing approved except by so and so ($$$$) and they were blocked from moving to proper gates.

    You and Paul run into this much?

    • stickman said, on November 7, 2014 at 11:03 am

      WD: This all has to do with the U$-imposed sanctions on Russia because they didn’t play the banksters’ coup d’ etat game in Ukraine attending the big economic squeeze on the BRICS nations opposing the derivatives-threatened petrodollar. So much international high politics involved and a bit of tit for tat reaction by the Russians.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm

      Yes . . . In fact, I had to pay a bribe in Cambodia whereby they allowed me to travel to Vietnam with a Visa (i.e., I did not have the required Visa Approval Letter – which a Vietnamese Airline official said I wouldn’t need). More to this story, but the bottom line was – I paid $150 for a Visa stamp that costs half that. I almost was “kicked back” to Laos – where I started my flight – losing my airfare ticket money I spent on the trip to Vietnam.

  19. unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:20 am

    This reminds me of Reggie White back when he was a free agent with the Eagles. The 49ers and the Packers were looking to sign him. Since he was such a religious guy (hey, he was a preacher after all), he said he wouldn’t simply go for the money, but he’d go to where he could ‘help the poor children, and do good for the disenfranchised in the community. Get my reverend on.’

    So, naturally he chose that hotbed of inner city strife and gang problems and went to Green Bay. And yes, they did offer more money. Say what you will about Greinke, but his honesty (I’ll go to the highest bidder) about it was refreshing. 98% of these guys give lip service to team and family and whatever, but don’t fucking preach it and then sign with someone else.

    I guess I’ll never get the whole thing about these uber-mega buck deals. Is an extra $5 mill that big a deal? Is the dick-swinging that goes along with it that important? Sure, I guess it would be hard to turn down a fat load of cash, but if you are in a situation like Pablo, where you have an adoring fan base, you live in one of the greatest cities in the world, let alone the country, and you can basically do no wrong in regards to the local press, why would that 5 or 10 mill really be that important?

    It just annoys me that it comes down to something so crass. I get to the point where it’s like good riddance Panda. You’ve been great, love what you did here, but I hope you fail miserably in your new home.

  20. Bozo said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:25 am

    With his infectious personality and love of the game, Pablo will win fans over no matter where he goes. I know the press can be a different matter, but I wouldn’t really say he had a cake walk in SF. The press made fun of his English and his weight as I recall not to mention Management ripping him in the press. Maybe not as bad as it can get on the East Coast but I’ll bet Panda has thicker skin now and could handle it fine.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:29 am

      What he deals with here and what he’d deal with in NY are 2,000 light years apart.

      • Bozo said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:41 am

        What are they going to rip him about, his weight? Been there done that. Make fun of his English? Been done. Vilify him for rape before all the facts are in? Rip him for breaking bones in his hand? I just think Pablo has taken a fair amount of shit from the press in SF and probably has thick enough skin to handle the NY media or at least ignore it.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 1:17 pm

        Well, not hitting for months at a time. Swinging at shit over his head or 5′ in front of the plate, double play grounders on the first pitch after the pitcher has walked 2 guys. You know the shit we all get on him about. Thing is, he’ll hear it from the stands, the media, the fans, and everyone else all the time 24/7 in New York. Or Boston. Chicago? Bad, but not as bad.

    • salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:37 am

      Agree there Bozo. He has had his share of negative press and ridicule in blogdom. In NY, he’d have A rod soaking up the hate.

      • salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:53 am

        The other thing is, he’s been at his best in the WS, which suggests added attention won’t bother him a bit.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:15 am

        .

  21. DJLoo said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:28 am

    People talk about home town discounts, but do they ever really give them?
    If so, I’m sure that they are few and far between…

    • unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:31 am

      Steve Young restructured his deal, as did a lot of 49ers back in the day. Even now, Patrick Willis did it to make more room for other payers. Kaepernick as well. Gwynn did it. Someone else mentioned Cal Ripken. There are others, just not that many.

    • Flavor said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:03 am

      Jered Weaver gave a big home town discount and even said that’s why he took less $$$

  22. salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:30 am

    I’m not getting yes to 4/100 but not 5/100? Bottom line is $100m. Cut his ass after 4 yrs if it makes you feel better.

    As for the weight, sounds like that is a sore spot. His agent saying “no one else is talking about his weight”. Best to not go there if you want him back for a little less.

  23. zumiee said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:51 am

    I hear your point, Bozo and Salty, but what Sandoval hasn’t had is a home stadium booing him, which happens more commonly on the East Coast. NY and Boston aren’t as bad as Philly, but if Pablo signs with NY or Boston, and gets off to a slow start, and his team gets off to a slow start….
    But maybe Pablo would still get through that OK, who knows. And maybe he wouldn’t get off to a slow start. Maybe he rakes from the get-go and becomes an instant hero. It’s an unknown future.

    • Bozo said, on November 7, 2014 at 11:58 am

      True, true. I could see a Yankee fan, wearing a panda hat, getting so pissed that he throw a battery at Pablo. Producing is a big deal, even in SF. If Panda had gone the whole year hitting .200 this year I imagine he would have been booed, although probably only Panda hats would have been thrown at him? I don’t know, I guess I just see him producing for a few more years and when he finally starts to break down he’ll be treated more like Bad Vlad (another guy who just seemed to love the game) and not like Aaron Rowand (fine for Philly but a load in the pants every else).

      I hope he backs down from the 6 years and stays, but if I was him, I’d take the money and play it out, wherever. Well actually, if it was me I’d probably sign a one year contract and then retire.

  24. Flavor said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:01 am

    When Pablo swings at balls above his head and he stops hitting home runs for 2 months at a time you barely hear a peep out of the fanbase or the media here in SF. In NY or Boston? Come on, they would rip him endlessly. Go read the NY Post every now and again and see how sympathetic they are to players in slumps. And again, and this is not even arguable, Pablo is a guy who wants to be liked and loved. It’s who he is.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:22 am

      Course, I’m biased, but the point is valid that Bummie has a MUCH more natural delivery that is built for the long haul. Kershaw always seems to be working his ass off out there.

      Fricking Bummie pitched a complete game shutout the other day, and after the game it looked like he barely broke a sweat. Kershaw works hard out there, and one would think he would tend to be the one the breaks down. This is going by the 5 year premise in the article.

      But the question remains, can Kershaw pitch well in the playoffs against anyone except for the Cards?

  25. wilcojoe said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:40 am

    It wasn’t that long ago many of us were joking that Pablo should have signed Sabean’s original offer, as Pablo was hovering around the Mendoza line. Now Sabean’s like ” yeah, about your original demand, is that still on the table by chance.”

    • Flavor said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:59 am

      and that’s a good example of how good he’s got it here. When he hit a buck seventy six in April no one said shit other than a few people joking about that original offer. If he does that in NY it might ruin him for the year. Who knows, maybe a career. He’s never had to suffer through everyone hating on you the way they do back there.

  26. Bozo said, on November 7, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    I think I’ll take a little break from the hot stove. Fuck me, was that one hell of a series or what? I can’t get over it.

    • Irish Kevin said, on November 7, 2014 at 3:19 pm

      It was awesome!!! When this WS started I wasn’t 100% sure they could win it. And I had my mind set to accept that. So when the Giants did win, it was just awesome!!

  27. DJLoo said, on November 7, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    Flav, the hating you’re referring to is not really accurate. Most of the diehards are either dead, have moved away or been priced out of the ballpark. Talk show hosts, beat writers, and the same handful of people that call the radio shows every day are a minority…

  28. Irish Kevin said, on November 7, 2014 at 2:35 pm

    Well. How much does anyone know about Pablo and his life in Venezuela? I know his brother is his agent. But what about his family? Are they rich, poor, whatever. Maybe he is going to bring mom and dad? and his wife’s family to the states? If that is the case I don’t begrudge him for going for the money.

  29. salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    Time to revisit the perils of the big FA deals?

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2256785-how-soon-do-mlb-teams-begin-regretting-blockbuster-free-agent-deals

  30. salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    Seeing Ellsbury got 7/153, Choo Choo 7/130, Fielder 9 yrs 240m, I can understand why Pablo’s agent feels he’s worth 6 yrs.

  31. zumiee said, on November 7, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    I rarely visit the McCovey Chronicles, I tend to find it a bit lame, but they had a challenge going the other day that I thought was a good way to fully appreciate what the Giants accomplished. They asked everyone what they thought the low point of the season was. After wading through people’s responses, I was like “sheesh, it’s amazing how bottomed out the Giants were in the middle of the season, and still came back to win it all.” Hardships like when the Reds swept the 4 games at AT&T, and when the Padres swept them, and the two weeks of Uggla, and the brutal sweep by the Rockies, and Chris Dominguez playing leftfield (did I even get his name right?), and on and on. It’s incredible the way the Giants kept grinding through. It helped they had built such a big early lead in the division. But even with that, it was amazing how long it took the Dodgers to finally catch the Giants in the division. The Giants were simply the team that wouldn’t die. No team could drive a stake through their heart, and they ended up on top at the end. How can that kind of heart even be quantified? It’s such mental toughness and desire, grinding through ABs, huge defensive plays, and clutch pitching performances. They keep playing the game; they don’t quit. They’re such great finishers.

  32. zumiee said, on November 7, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    The Giants won the World Series with Matt Cain winning 2 (!) games all season. I sometimes forget to be amazed by that!

  33. zumiee said, on November 7, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    The Giants won the championship in spite of Sandwich-gate, infield-practice-concussion-gate, Uggla-gate, Timmy meltdown-gate, Scutaro’s-never-going-to-play-again-gate, bad backs-gate, bad obliques-gate, and on and on. Awesome effort to overcome such adversity.

    • wilcojoe said, on November 7, 2014 at 4:34 pm

      Good posts Zum. I forgot, what was sandwich-gate?

    • Irish Kevin said, on November 7, 2014 at 4:42 pm

      Yeah, at the begining of the season when the Giants were rolling in April and May everyone was saying how much better the Giants would be when Scutaro was healthy. uh-huh. Scutaro who???

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 7, 2014 at 5:05 pm

      Sandwich gate = Cain’s injury?

      • zumiee said, on November 7, 2014 at 5:16 pm

        Yeah; the finger cut while making a sandwich.

        No doubt when the Giants won the World Series, Cain breathed a huge sigh of relief. With the sandwich injury and the elbow bone-chips surgery, Cain had to be bummed out feeling he was letting the team down.

  34. zumiee said, on November 7, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    Wow, the website has put a cartoon icon by my name now. And mine looks so angry! 🙂

  35. paulinasia said, on November 7, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    Salty, agree, not sure I understand the hand-wringing about 6 years if the money is similar. If you could accept 4 or 5 years at $100m, why not 6 at $100m? All we’ve seen from Camp Pablo is that they want 6 years, they didn’t yet mention a price tag. Seems like $100m might get it done, no matter how many years. But we won’t know until a rich bidder throws the money onto the table. And while I agree that Pablo might be the kind of guy to accept less money to stay in SF, his agents aren’t the ones playing and living there; they’re trying to squeeze as much as they can for their commission, it’s obviously ALL about the money for them. Guess it depends on how much Rasputian grip the agents have on the player. Note to Willie: in my 10-plus years moving around Asia, I’ve never had the kind of problem mentioned above; sure, I always keep some extra Ben Franklin’s in my pocket, plus a carton of cigarettes for the less-demanding border guards, but never anything near the crap that travelers dealing with Russia have to manage… China can be rigorous in its “policies” but SE Asia is pretty small potatoes. A hundred dollar bill solves many problems, from my experience. Russia? Biggest assholes in the world. IMO.

  36. paulinasia said, on November 7, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    Hey Zum, you’re right, what the hell is with these icons showing up? ….

    • Flavor said, on November 7, 2014 at 5:28 pm

      sorry, I was revising the filter system and must have hit an extra button. It’s fixed.

  37. Nipper said, on November 7, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    This season would make a good book for someone to write. Just make sure it has plenty of pictures too.

  38. salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Tying this to what zumiee posted…and prefacing this with maybe we should t worry how much they spend on Pablo.

    Once again they amaze this yr, spending $53m on Cain Lincecum Pagan and Scutaro, none of whom contributed anything in the postseason.

    In 2012, 64m for Zito Lincecum Rowand Huff and Freddy Chez. They needed Zits and Tim in the PS, but were talking mid reliever and a #5 for 37m!

    Finally in 2010, they had Zito 18m off the roster and Rowand a $12m sub.

    So, somehow they find a way to absorb bad dough. Raise the budget, hit the dumpster and raid the farm.

    • snarkk said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:49 pm

      Who knows what extra $$ the Giants brought in this postseason?
      No doubt a bonanza at ATT. 2 games vs. Nats, 3 games vs. Cards, 3 games vs. Royals. 8 extra games, with higher tix prices than normal, and big time memorabilia and licensed good sales, along with gouged parking, beer, garlic fries, and everything else. I don’t doubt the post-season piled somewhere around $30+ million into the Giants team ownership till, because in 2012 the Giants team ownership got $20.5M in post-season ticket revenue share alone. That’s before even counting every other revenue stream at ATT in which the team does not share with the MLB office and other post season teams. All the other revenue streams have to generate at least $1M in revenue per game, so with 8 post season ATT games, that has to be at least around $10M in extra non-ticket revenue that the Giants organization doesn’t share with anybody else. The Giants players’ share for winning it all in 2012 was $29 million, so it was probably at least that this year.
      http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/estimating-postseason-revenue-for-players-and-teams/

      • salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 8:42 pm

        Snarrk, I’m just a talking about winning despite the bad dough

      • snarkk said, on November 7, 2014 at 11:50 pm

        “bad” dough? Any dough is good dough, IMO…

  39. salty said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    feeling sorry for Bum?

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/bumgarners-deal-among-mlbs-best-value-contracts

  40. snarkk said, on November 7, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Panda and his agent look at what the going rate is for 3bmen in MLB. Longoria has the bottom of the pack at something like $11 million/year, and it goes up from there, way up. Somebody put a list of ’em on here the other day, so I won’t go researching it. Panda is as good or better than the guys on that list, and the top guy(s) are making $18M or better/year. He’s not out of line at all asking for a 5 year deal or so, at around $18M to $20M per year. He’s an everyday, above average player, and a switch hitter to boot, though RH hitting is pretty marginal lately. Proven clutch in the playoffs. The weight issue is there, can be mitigated to some extent with a weight clause of some kind. Were I Panda, I wouldn’t take less than $100M, whatever the years are. 5 sounds about right, with an $8M buyout. If he wants 6, somebody will probably give it to him. After 3 rings, he might want to try new scenery for the helluvit. An extra $25M to $30M guaranteed is a lot of money to blow off for a “home town” discount. I probably wouldn’t just give up that kind of coin, and I’ll bet most on the Flap wouldn’t either. If you are making $100K/year in a job, would you stay in it just for old times and S & Gs if somebody offered you $130K? Maybe. The % uplift is the same as the Panda possibility, but his extra zeroes IMO make a difference to the extra money vs. quality of life balance evaluation. If Panda thinks an extra $5M a year is what it’s worth to risk getting booed by the hometown crowd with a new ECoast team, well, then it’s worth the risk…

  41. MelOtt said, on November 7, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    A poster named Evan over at MCC has a list of the top third basemen with more than 600 ABs since 2011, ranked by fWAR. Where is Sandoval? He is twenty-first. Twenty out of the thirty top third basemen were more productive than he was. So no, he isn’t as good as two handsful of fingers plus two feetful of toes worth of other third basemen. Paying him big, big bucks is crazy from a baseball point of view. He’s funny dancing the salsa. He sells a lot of hats and masks. But from a baseball point of view, I bet Sabean can find players who will better Sandoval’s output at a lower cost. We need a strong starting pitcher. We need a left fielder. We stand a very good chance of getting as much WAR out of them as we get from Sandoval, to add to the WAR from having Belt healthy all year and Panik all year and maybe even more than a half year from Pagan.

  42. DJLoo said, on November 7, 2014 at 10:26 pm

    According to my bartender, I just drank 14 Bud Lights in 3 hours.

    • snarkk said, on November 7, 2014 at 11:49 pm

      How do you know your bartender can count?…

      • DJLoo said, on November 8, 2014 at 5:18 am

        I think he was exaggerating to get rid of me and my non-stop Giant rambling.

  43. FanSince59 said, on November 7, 2014 at 11:14 pm

    Six years for Panda is absurd!…I think there are more pressing issues than third base…Starting pitching is the area that needs more focus IMO….we have MadBum and Cain (assuming he comes back the same). Hudson is a number 5 at best and I think Peavy will be pitching in Atlanta or Florida or maybe even with the Cubs…I think Vogey is through ( though I really like his attitude and what he has accomplished) and Linceum is Lincecum! And then there is Petit to consider for the rotation…The Giants have the money for sure, whether they are willing to spend it is another question. But if they would, I think we need to add a Lester or Shields for safety sake rather than invest in a six year Panda. And/or how about a similar investment in Nelson Cruz so he could play left field for the Giants….I know Ishi did a good job in LF and I know he will be working on his speed and fielding strategies/routes this winter, but I think someone will offer him a first base gig which is really what he is best at and he likely will not be around in ’15….so does Arias, Duffy or Duval play third? Headley? or?…. Your guess is good as mine…I’m glad I am not Sabean because no matter what he does, someone is not going to be happy!

  44. snarkk said, on November 7, 2014 at 11:48 pm

    What would happen if Panda bolts? Well, you could put Duvall over at 3rd for awhile. Take the Panik approach, give him a couple hundred ABs and see if he’s passable to decent. Meanwhile, take the money saved at 3rd and use it to pay for a real LFer that hits, catches, and has some speed. And, get another starter, a #3 or #4. If Duvall runs into one over the fence occasionally, make up a cute nickname and sell hats for him under that nickname…

    • DJLoo said, on November 8, 2014 at 5:20 am

      I think the former Splash hero Alex Rios can be had for peanuts…

      • Flavor said, on November 8, 2014 at 5:38 am

        “former?” How about “undecorated?” “underwhelming?” “disgraced?”

    • willedav said, on November 8, 2014 at 7:13 am

      Finding a real LF such as this will be really hard in this day and age of limited offensive production.
      Alex Rios doesn’t really do any of the above very well any longer. And made like $12 mil for not doing it last year…the guy actually has negative WAR for defense.
      I said earlier a good productive full season of Belt could make up for what you would lose middle order from Sandoval’s place taken by replacement level guy.
      But, come on, every team is looking for offense–trying to find 2 starter LU guys plus an SP or 2 is just unrealistic. Either keep Morse Perez Blanco for LF and go get 1 top order SP, or pay up on Sando. Or both!

      • Nipper said, on November 8, 2014 at 7:43 am

        Damn we need the DH! Morse would fit that to a tee.

      • snarkk said, on November 8, 2014 at 9:20 am

        Yeah, instead of a season of games like those tight, great nervous-time tilts we had with the Nats and Cards, lets get 162 replicas of that exciting late July, 4 hour brainless White Sox vs. Cleveland 10-6 marathon brand of ball.
        We need the DH like a major case of jock itch.
        Keep it in the AL, where they scratch themselves silly over it…

      • Macdog said, on November 8, 2014 at 9:25 am

        Plus there’d be no Silver Slugger award for MadBum.

  45. Alleykat said, on November 8, 2014 at 10:29 am

    Nipper as usual your the only one that wants the DH in the NL.
    Not gonna happen,besides we already have one, Madbum is our DH, our “Desginated Hick”

  46. Flavor said, on November 8, 2014 at 10:39 am

    By the way, happy birthday Zooooom

    • zumiee said, on November 8, 2014 at 12:30 pm

      Thanks!
      Greatest birthday present ever: 3 in 5!!!!!

  47. DJLoo said, on November 8, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Does the idiot who wrote this know anything about the Giants? Amazing how shit like this is put out there.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/giants-won-t-keep-pablo-sandoval-for-less-than-6-years-100-million

    • zumiee said, on November 8, 2014 at 12:37 pm

      I dug this headline at the side of the homepage: “UFO abduction caught on security cam in North Dakota.”
      UFO travels across the galaxy, but can’t out-wit a North Dakotan security camera.

      • Flavor said, on November 8, 2014 at 1:22 pm

        not too proud to admit that after reading this I watched it on youtube. Kinda bummed I have so little going on today that I resorted to watching that…..

      • zumiee said, on November 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm

        Yeah, nothing fake about this video at all. Not at all.

      • DJLoo said, on November 8, 2014 at 1:34 pm

        The video is very disturbing.
        My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
        Why is this not front page news?

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 8, 2014 at 1:50 pm

        The first 34+ seconds of nothing really added to the suspense.

      • snarkk said, on November 8, 2014 at 2:36 pm

        Amazing how these alien things always happen in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere so that there’s nobody else around to see it. When’s the last time an alien ship abducted somebody around noon in midtown Manhattan. Loo?…

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 8, 2014 at 12:56 pm

      Pretty useless but harmless article and then the last two sentences were just strange.

  48. zumiee said, on November 8, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    I was skimming through free agent signing predictions in an article in Fangraphs, and the writer predicted Morse would sign with KC to be their DH. I guess it’s possible, but wouldn’t that be weird?

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 8, 2014 at 12:57 pm

      The Giants could sign Shields to balance it out.

      • zumiee said, on November 8, 2014 at 1:24 pm

        Ah, good point. 🙂

  49. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 8, 2014 at 2:10 pm

    All the talk of Sandoval and what he’ll do is nice and all but he’s as good as gone in my mind. I wonder about the other free agents that are out there. Especially guys that have made some good dough already and haven’t won a championship. Do they look at SF as a place where they can win? After 3 in 5 you would think they would.

    • snarkk said, on November 8, 2014 at 2:22 pm

      Or, that the “luck” has about run out…

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 8, 2014 at 2:49 pm

        Ha, maybe. Add a solid starter and I think the club is pretty well positioned to keep it rolling for a few years.

  50. snarkk said, on November 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Aliens from Rigel IV must abduct Panda every offseason. They subject him to weight loss experimentation so that he mysteriously loses 35+ pounds of flab. Then, they deposit him back to earth right before ST, and he proceeds to gradually put it all back by August. This past off season, they forgot to turn off the right handed batter attenuator when they were experimenting on him, so his RHB skills were cosmically depleted for the season. After he signs his mega deal, he’ll be able to pay them off so they experiment on somebody else this offseason. They’re trying out a new arm and motion regenerator this offseason, so he’s given them Timmeh’s address in Seattle…

    • Flavor said, on November 8, 2014 at 4:26 pm

      I still can’t believe I watched that video. Four times. Clever post, btw
      Hey, did you ever get my email about the shirts? Never heard back from you.

      • snarkk said, on November 8, 2014 at 8:31 pm

        Sent you an email…

    • ewisco said, on November 8, 2014 at 8:08 pm

      snarkk, i’m glad that made POTD. it’s just bloody funny. God forfend that they screw up Tim’s address.

      • snarkk said, on November 8, 2014 at 10:17 pm

        Thanks. Yeah, Tim moved from his previous high rise condo in downtown Seattle. Not sure where he moved to, maybe another grunge dungeon in the sky. For $35M over 2 years, he can afford something fairly nice…

    • Bozo said, on November 8, 2014 at 4:58 pm

      Nothing like adding 5 GMs to fill your open SS position.

      • Flavor said, on November 8, 2014 at 5:00 pm

        lol. right?

      • willedav said, on November 8, 2014 at 5:42 pm

        Good one. I’ll bet at least one of those guys is assigned to make sure Colletti doesn’t sneak in and re-sign Hanley for $100 mil.

      • pawliekokonuts said, on November 9, 2014 at 4:18 pm

        I know. If I had graphic art talents, I’d have fun drawing up THEIR org chart. Sheesh.

  51. twinfan1 said, on November 9, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    Never seen this one- 15 yard penalty on Harbaugh for premature bitching..

  52. pawliekokonuts said, on November 9, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    I know blade3 is a Nate Silver fan. Me? Not so sure. You can talk stats till you are Royals blue in the face, but there are limitations to cold numbers. It is odd, if not insulting, that this Silver analysis gives no credit or credence to the visual judgment of the Royals third-base coach. My friend Dan Valenti, in helping me with my “life as a fan” book, deftly pointed out the symmetry of Game 7 2014 and Game 7 1962. Matty Alou was left stranded on third. Alou and Mays to this day say he should’ve tried for home on Mays’s 2-out double; it would have taken two good plays to get Matty out. Alex Gordon was held at third and did not try to come home. Valenti pointed out that Brandon Crawford had to field a difficult short-hop from Juan Perez, a little heralded fact. If that ball got away? Ugh. Could Alex Gordon have made it as things stood? Doubt it.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/send-alex-gordon/

    • James said, on November 9, 2014 at 5:25 pm

      Blanco, Perez, AND Crawford would have had to screw up on the same play. The deadspin refutation — which also used numbers and logic — was pretty definitive. Silver has no firm stat he can cite for the chances of Gordon scoring had he gone. The overwhelming likelihood is that he would have looked like a complete idiot for trying.

      • DJLoo said, on November 9, 2014 at 7:17 pm

        The 2 aspects of the play that I was hung up on is how long it appeared to take Gordon to get to 3rd when I expected he was scoring easily after seeing Perez kick the ball by the fence. That would be a good reason for holding him. My main reason for sending him after seeing the replay is how far out in LF Crawford was for the relay and the chances of him and Buster collaborating to nail him. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. Just amazed and happy how it turned out. In my mind the case is closed.

  53. pawliekokonuts said, on November 9, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    Buster Olney is talking guardedly at ESPN.com as if Panda will stay, but I’m not sure how reliable a source he is.

  54. unca_chuck said, on November 9, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    Don’t forget Posey on the play at home. The play certainly isn’t a given, and due to the fact that KC was flailing at Bummie, there’s certainly a case for taking the shot. Still and all, you’d hate that last out of the World Series to be a runner out at the plate.

    From what I can tell, though, Gordon wasn’t going fast into 3rd and was stopped cold. He was easing up as Crawfish got the ball. Any halfway decent throw, granted he was 25′ into LF, would have nailed him by 20′. If Gordon had busted ass the whole way, he would have scored. In other words, Hunter Pence is the only guy in baseball that would have scored on that play.

    • James said, on November 9, 2014 at 10:06 pm

      Chance that Nate Silver writes a column in defense of sending the runner if he’s thrown out by 20 feet: 4.2%

  55. unca_chuck said, on November 9, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    Panda’s agent is now saying that 6 years ISN’T a must.

  56. zumiee said, on November 9, 2014 at 9:51 pm

    One of the plays from the World Series that perplexes me is the pivotal bunt that happened in Game 7. When Bum came in during Game 7, the first batter got a single, and Bum went 2-0 on the next batter and the guy bunted on the third pitch, moving the runner, but giving away an out. The runner never scored. The batter showed bunt on the first two pitches before that. After the game, Yost said the guy bunted on his own. Yeah, but he showed bunt on the first two pitches! Yost couldn’t have singled to the batter to NOT bunt?? There’s no way to single to the third base coach? Heck, call time out if you have to, to make sure the batter gets the “don’t bunt” single. I don’t get it. And then Yost throws the guy under the bus after the game. What a doofus.

  57. zumiee said, on November 9, 2014 at 10:04 pm

    Dodger fans, confused at how it all went wrong for them again:

  58. […] The rest of the article can be found here: THE San Francisco Giants Blog […]


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