A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Re-Hashing the Hashed

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 17, 2014

Ok, no more Ashkon talk. Not that the internet was abuzz with it anyway.:)

New word from the underground is that the Padres are dipping their toes into the Panda sweepstakes. If true, that means the Giants, the Red Sox, the White Sox, the Blue Jays and now San Diego are considering competing for Sandoval.

I can’t imagine the Padres will be making a competitive offer.

But it’s November 17th and there’s nothing else to discuss unless you want to talk about the latest Isis video. Jeeeeezus, don’t click on that if you haven’t done so yet.

49 Responses

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  1. Nipper said, on November 17, 2014 at 6:44 am

    Yeah this off topic but I could use some hash with my eggs this morning. The coffee is done nice and strong. Pablo better get all he can get while he can get it or his waist line permits.

  2. willedav said, on November 17, 2014 at 7:51 am

    Good post from Paul at end of last thread. Pads are the team who could have kept Headley but decided against it. He had one good season and then, given the chance to hit clean up and be big stick in the LU, sucked at it. As much as Pads need offense he couldn’t provide it on consistent basis. Maybe Pads are more into vet leadership and clubhouse enthusiasm Pablo would provide tho it would surprise me they’d dump $100 mil of their limited payroll on him.

    What the Pads do is their own biz, but I just don’t see Headley being a good option for Giants if they lose Sandoval. Hitting at ATT isn’t going to help him be any more productive than he was at SD, and the $$$ can be better spent elsewhere.

    How about a Zum *swag shot*?

    • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 9:20 am

      I wouldn’t want to break the internet, though. 🙂

  3. willedav said, on November 17, 2014 at 8:22 am

    Kobe Bryant has turned into a complete anti-hero on the floor. watching him continue to jack up contested jump shots last night while his teammates stand around and watch is just boring. Even when he hit them first time Dubs played, Lakers still got blown out. When he’s missing, needless to say it’s full on drubbing as Dubs outclass them and move ball around with balanced scoring and everyone getting touches.

    In blow out games where you are overmatched or winning easily, I always wanted to treat game as you would a scrimmage–work on running your set plays through to see where shot opportunities are, get everyone involved including bench guys, focus on team defense and taking the other team out of what they want to do, individually and collectively.

    Instead, it’s all Kobe all the time. He gets his 40 while everyone else gets scraps, they look terrible and haven’t accomplished anything.

    • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 9:23 am

      Re: the Kings, Cousins had a nice bounce-back game against the Spurs; putting up a solid 25/10 performance, although dealing with foul trouble again. This showed some growth for the Kings, dealing with a colossal blown game against Memphis in the final .3 seconds, and digging deep and getting the win over the Spurs.

  4. salty said, on November 17, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Giants in the Az Fall league:

    Lefty Stephen Okert, 4th rd pick in 2012, looking like Law from last yr with 17K in 12 innings, 0.75 era .50 whip.

    Clayton Blackburn , 1-2 5.40 era, but all in relief, maybe not his thing.

    Carbonell hitting .190, .472 OPS in 58 AB’s…(hey, what you expect from a guy signed 3/1.4m?)

    • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 9:28 am

      The little bit I’ve seen of Okert in the Fall League, he looked good, like an Affeldt, Jr. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him.

    • snarkk said, on November 17, 2014 at 7:47 pm

      I wouldn’t expect much out of Carbonell — they didn’t pay much for him…

  5. pawliekokonuts said, on November 17, 2014 at 9:29 am

    Braves trade Jason Heyward for Cards’ Shelby Miller.

    • Flavor said, on November 17, 2014 at 9:34 am

      both teams are going to be disappointed in what they get.

    • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 9:36 am

      Wow- that trade surprises me. Heyward was dubbed the “Jay-Hey Kid” by the Atlanta media and fans. He and Freeman were supposedly going to be the pillars of their future championship run. Heyward’s career got off track with some injuries, including a scary hit-by-pitch in the face.
      And the Cardinals move forward with their outfield after the death of Taveras.
      The Braves definitely needed starting pitching help.

  6. Chipower9 said, on November 17, 2014 at 10:02 am

    Catching up – been busy as hell personally and at work, but still basking my ass off.

    Couple of thoughts/comments:

    On Ashkon’s videos, I liked the first the best. Probably for the same reasons snarkk stated (he did it during the playoff run).

    Zum mentioned how some Japanese pitchers have a hitch/pause in their delivery. I am not sure how much of this comes from studying the all-time great Sadaharu Oh (he started as a pitcher and transitioned to 1st base in the bigs), but he was known for a pause mainly when hitting. But, I know he is revered in the Japanese baseball world. If you have never read it, “Sadaharu Oh: A Zen Way of Baseball” is a great read.

    I still think Pablo sticks with the Giants. And to WillieD, if Pablo walks, you said you don’t see Headley as a good option. Well, looking at the potential 3rd base FAs, there isn’t much. I would see him as probably the best option. If not, who?

    RE: swag, I have the shirt they wore once they clinched a playoff spot (NL West Post Season shirt), NL Champions shirt, WS shirt (prior to winning it) and the clubhouse WS Champs shirt. Also about 4 or 5 different magazines (two flavors/different covers) of SI, a hard cover book “Giants of October.” I also pre-ordered the DVD set (8 discs). I may still pick-up a hoodie.

    • snarkk said, on November 17, 2014 at 7:49 pm

      Geez, Chi, for buying all that Baer should sent you a discount card for some half off garlic fries …

  7. Chipower9 said, on November 17, 2014 at 10:05 am

    Oh, and this to Loo who has commented a number of times how in NY (especially with the old-timers) they refer to the Giants as the Black and Orange. I noticed in the Ashkon/Bailey video that Bailey is rocking a shirt with “Black and Orange” on it, and he refers to the team as such. I dig that video, too…love all the fan shots with the confidence, etc. that Flav mentioned.

    • snarkk said, on November 17, 2014 at 7:50 pm

      Like the beer mix is a Black & Tan, not Tan & Black, I’ve always heard the Giants colors are the “Orange and Black”, not the “Black and Orange”. Wherefrom, I dunno…

  8. Chipower9 said, on November 17, 2014 at 10:06 am

    Salt mentioned Okert. I saw him when I was in AZ on business (took in a few Scottsdale Scorpion games). He looked pretty damned good. In addition to his 17 Ks in 12 innings, he also gave up only one BB.

  9. Alleykat said, on November 17, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Nice Christmas for Stanton, lots of fancy cars& homes to fill after his 13/325Million insane deal!

  10. Bozo said, on November 17, 2014 at 11:10 am

    Besides Stanton’s deal how about 5 year 82 mil for Russell Martin? Wow.

    • snarkk said, on November 17, 2014 at 7:52 pm

      Panda’s agent is loving that deal. Russel Martin gets 5 for 82?
      If I’m Panda’s agent, there’s no way I take under $100 and 5. That’s a default combo…

  11. Bozo said, on November 17, 2014 at 11:18 am

    I’m starting to see why Zito moved to Houston and is attempting a comeback. The Astros will probably give him a 2 year 10 mil contract just to babysit their young staff.

  12. Flavor said, on November 17, 2014 at 11:32 am

    jason Heyward is probably the most overrated outfielder in all of baseball.

    • James said, on November 17, 2014 at 12:39 pm

      But he would very likely have made that catch L. Cain got so much credit for 😉

      I don’t really have a sense of the gap between his stats and the wider perception of his impact, but one number in his favor is his age. I’d rather have Heyward than Y. Cespedes, who seems a bigger hype to me.

  13. Chipower9 said, on November 17, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Damn I miss baseball. Only 96 days until pitchers and catchers report.

  14. stickman said, on November 17, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    About 12 above zero up here in the northwoods with a NNW wind howling through the gap where a couple of my big spruce trees went belly up over the past few months. Hard to think baseball and have been mostly cramped up indoors. Yukkkkk. But still basking in three for five.

  15. zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    Russell Martin turned his career year this past season into a huge contract. I don’t really get the Blue Jays. They seem like a team that is perpetually spinning its wheels. They did win a couple of championships in ’92 and ’93, that’s very cool, but they have yet to rebound from the ’94 strike year, it seems like. They have no identity and can’t seem to settle on an identity and plan. The Yankees and Red Sox are vulnerable now, and Baltimore is the team that seized the moment.

    • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 12:58 pm

      Looking at his numbers….his career year wasn’t all that “career.” He only played in 111 games. He hasn’t exactly been Iron Man. His last 4 seasons, games played: 125, 133, 127, and 111. He did have an OBP of .402 this past season, and the Pirates sang his praises regarding his leadership on the team, on their playoff run.

      • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 1:02 pm

        So, obviously, he can also DH with the Jays.

  16. stickman said, on November 17, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Just checked in on MLBTR and noticed that SF is one of six teams kicking the tires of FA Justin Masterson, who pitched very well for Cleveland a couple seasons back and is coming off arm problems. He’s probably looking at a 2-year “prove i still got it” deal. Interesting take is that he is “an extreme ground ball pitcher”. So if Panda stays ~ along with Belt, Panik and Crawford being keys to the IF ~ we could project quite a resurrection if his arm is indeed good to go and him being an innings-eater and all. Giants could use for a strong third starter. This guy might could fill that role quite nicely.

  17. FanSince59 said, on November 17, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Sure is quiet with the SF Brass…no movement yet on Panda…That being said, I think it is a huge mistake for the Giants to put “all their eggs in one basket!”…They have a huge issue with starting pitching, in addition to the third base quandry, and we hear virtually nothing!…Even left field isn’t settled yet!….I’m hoping something happens at the winter meetings!…only 96 days ’til BB starts up again, huh?…Too long in my opinion!

    • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 1:05 pm

      I think this is the week that Sandoval visits the Red Sox, and gets the grand tour, or whatever. So, the Giants are probably waiting for that to all settle a bit. Maybe his agent has promised the Giants a chance to match the Sox’s offer. It’s ideal for Sandoval and his agent, money-wise: several teams to play off each other.

      • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 1:08 pm

        Are the White Sox interested in Sandoval for 1B/DH? It seemed like Gillaspie had nailed down 3B.

  18. FanSince59 said, on November 17, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    Yeah! I get that…but, I am still surprised that “real” rumors haven’t surfaced yet as to who the Giants are seriously going after other than Sandoval.

    • FanSince59 said, on November 17, 2014 at 1:16 pm

      I know Fransden just signed a deal for a million, but didn’t Gillespie just do the same with the Sox?

  19. pawliekokonuts said, on November 17, 2014 at 2:50 pm

    Dear Pablo, enjoy your little trek to Beantown, its weather, its fans, its ballpark, its parochialism, its whatever. Have some clam chowder. Just know that you’ve been warned. The press there will be merciless. Keep smiling. And save some for us, unless you really want to leave your heart in … you know the song. We all do.

  20. Irish Kevin said, on November 17, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    So how much slack is everyone going to give Angel Pagan, last two season he has played in 71 games in 2013 and 96 games in 2014. He had better come back 100% and ready to contribut IMO. he got a 4 year deal and now he can’t stay healthy?? WTF.

    • Flavor said, on November 17, 2014 at 4:02 pm

      Well he just had back surgery so I’m pretty sure he’s not loafing it out there

      • Irish Kevin said, on November 17, 2014 at 4:15 pm

        So more than likely it will be Blanco in CF at the beginning of the year? Back surgery is not something you just get up from doing backflips.

    • zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 4:19 pm

      We want more from Pagan in the future, and rightly so, but he did make an important contribution in the ’14 season. He helped them bank those early wins that allowed the Giants to withstand those awful two months in the middle, and still make the playoffs.

  21. Flavor said, on November 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    I’m just stoked they could not only win games without Pagan but actual “World Seriesesesesses”. I love Pagan, whatever he can do let’s be grateful. The dude is making 10 mil next year, 11 mil the year after that. He’s hardly breaking the bank when you consider what Scoots makes (and he truly gives you nothing) or Timmy who makes nearly double what Pa….GONE makes……

    • pawliekokonuts said, on November 17, 2014 at 6:16 pm

      I always like seeing “World Seriesesesesses.”

  22. paulinasia said, on November 17, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    I’m still trying to get my head around that Stanton contract. Part of me thinks it’s just a publicity stunt to make the Marlins seem relevant, considering they’ve got an opt-out clause at year 6. That sucker will likely never go the full 13 years and 300gazillion bucks. Marlins ownership is looking for another out-of-nowhere World Series run, and then will dismantle the team again back to.. nowhere. What a fucked up organization. Damn, wouldn’t Stanton looked good in the orange and black. For a handful of years, not 13….

  23. DJLoo said, on November 17, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    I remember tossing out a Bumgarner for Stanton proposal at one point during the season just to see the reaction. Can’t remember how it went over. Maybe I’ll try to find it if I get some energy.

  24. pawliekokonuts said, on November 17, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    I take a perverse pleasure in the Stanton deal (has it been confirmed)? No one, repeat NO ONE, is worth it. And I am a free-market guy. I do not for a second grouse “about these crybaby rich guys” or whatever people say. It’s capitalism. So what. It’s not my money. When I say no one is worth it, I am asserting that it is not a wise cost-benefit ratio — not in the world of sports. Nope. Too little ROI. That’s my take.

    BTW, it occurs to me it was important for the Giants to get that third ring just to have more than the stupid Marlins.

  25. pawliekokonuts said, on November 17, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Convincing arguments from Tracy Ringolsby at mlb.com on why 6 years for Pablo is ill-advised.

  26. pawliekokonuts said, on November 17, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    Russell Martin? $82m? Really? Oh, and EVERYBODY was saying yesterday he’d go to the Cubs.

  27. zumiee said, on November 17, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    In the middle of reading a hot stove-ish article, this part jumped out at me. It’s yet another way to look at the bad contracts the Dodgers are stuck with on into the future. It’s an ESPN article, and I don’t remember who the author is.
    “The Dodgers are the only team in baseball with more than $100 million committed to the 2017 payroll. They have $171 million already on the books for that season.”

    • James said, on November 17, 2014 at 8:41 pm

      The Dodgers are a very interesting puzzle.

      If you look at the their bad contracts, a lot of that money is tied up in players who are likely to remain productive for a couple more years:


      Crawford and Ethier are the two dogs, although neither is so old that one or the other couldn’t bounce back with a pretty good (or at least a complete) season or two.

      If they find a way to shore up the bullpen and catcher, get an ok glove at short, and get rid of one of the big contracts — Kemp seems like the best trading chip — they’d probably still be a good bet to win 90 next year and be a step closer to a more reasonable salary structure.

  28. snarkk said, on November 17, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    Panda is right to be on a stroll to beantown. He can let the market perk, like this 5 year and 82M deal for Russel Martin, to set up his comparables. That contract right there is manna from heaven to Panda’s agent. If Martin is worth THAT, Panda is surely worth 5 years at least, and 100 large, minimum. Martin with lifetime BA .259 and OPS .754 and 119 HRs at 31+ YO, versus Panda at .294, .811 and 106 at just barely 28 YO. I think that deal is much better support for a Panda deal than the Stanton deal, which is an outlier deal with a very special talent, and that out clause after 6 years or some such, as somebody mentioned…

  29. paulinasia said, on November 17, 2014 at 10:14 pm

    I’ve been in the “keep Pablo” camp, still am. Reading about Pablo “touring” Boston, smiles all around, a courtship underway, kind of feels like a recently-former girlfriend (or, worse, a current girlfriend) out strutting her stuff, looking for a better suitor. Hurts a little. Ok, I’m a softy. Pablo is loving the attention…. but as Craig has said here, he likely realizes he’s gotten a lot of very positive attention here that he will not get in Beantown if he has prolonged slumps, as he is wont to do. His agent says: “The good part of this is he’s got a chance to… see who can really appreciate him and his work.” See who can really appreciate him and his work? Fuck you, asshole agent. I hate agents. Their interest is not always in the best interest of the players. Obviously. Unless you’re Stanton or Russell Martin. Or… Rowand or Zito… uh, nevermind….

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