He Gone
The Panda has accepted that relatively modest deal offered to him from the Red Sox. Thoughts?
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The Panda has accepted that relatively modest deal offered to him from the Red Sox. Thoughts?
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A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball
3 titles in 4 years (which I insist is accurate). I think our GM and ownership know what they’re doing.
Let’s get that Posey to 3rd debate going…
I’d prefer that to Headley to 3rd…
While having been in the “keep Pablo” camp all along, I opined awhile back that I thought it was very possible Pablo would want to try something new. 3 rings, including a Series MVP? Some kind of World Series hitting record? Um… not a whole lot more he can do in SF, perhaps in his mind. And I would understand that. Will be interested to hear how he explains it. I just really hope, for his sake, that his decision will be HIS, and not that of his agent/brother whatever…..
I don’t get the ‘not a whole lot more he can do in SF’ thing. You’re either in a good place or you’re not and he was in a great place with the G’s. What, he’s tired of winning championships in SF? Me thinks this is all about ego and, if so, his comments about wanting to remain a Giant for life ring hollow, as Schulman said in his article.
As long as they go after a rotation anchor I don’t think it matters much who we stick at 3rd base. Obviously, it would need to be something better than “replacement level.” But if we added a “Lester” it would play to our strength, which is our pitching staff. We somehow won a world championship with one good starting pitcher, I don’t want to have to try to repeat that stroke of luck.
Unfortunately, we won’t be getting one of the big FA stud pitchers since Sabean is still suffering from PTZS (Post-Traumatic Zito Signing).
So as I’m waking up I’m realizing the limitations of the beginning of this post.
Still….
Can Jed Lowrie play 3rd base?
Pagan is still coming back (pun intended) to shore up a little of what we’re losing with Panda leaving…..
vaya con dios panda
I think either the Giants pissed off Pablo or they just didn’t pay enough respect to his bank account.
In other news, Oaktown stunned the Baseball world with their trade for Ike Davis, true it was only for a pack of gum, but that gum had explosive flavor.
I am still seeing conflicting reports on Twitter. It saddens me insofar as baseball is such a business, for all sides. That’s not some kind of revelation. Oh well. Mays, Marichal, McCovey and dozens of others all left the Giants, and I adjusted.
. . . but the Panda will never get the love he got from SFG fans. (I DID see fewer Panda hats at the dugout store; an omen.)
Agree 100%
This is from my best bud in Boston, after some messaging about the whole thing: “I agree- it’s crazy. Pablo just agreed w/ Sox for 5/100.So now Sox have a surplus at OF & 3B, and they desperately need starting Pitching. I think a trade is forthcoming!” … Well, if they sign Lester, they won’t *desperately* need SP…. Ok, Craig, what do you think it would take to land Cespedes?
And I cannot wait to see what happens when the Sox try to teach Hanley how to play the outfield. I’d give that experiment about a month… but damn that asshole can hit…
Buster is in his backyard taking grounders this morning….
I’m not surprised but still kinda bummed. To me Sandoval is sort of like Juan Uribe. He may have some good seasons left in him but he’ll never be what he was with the Giants and a big part of that is the love of the fans in the Bay Area. Speaking of Uribe isn’t he a FA? Don’t do it Sabes. Lastly, lol Boston.
I’m bummed too. The team will feel very different without him. For 6 or 7 years, we’ve had Pablo in our baseball lives. I don’t remember this team dealing with a major defection like this. We’ll now find out just how much Pablo was loved by his team mates, too. I remember when Melky disappeared, fans and the media were shocked, but the team? No problem. I remember Buster answering a question about what will you do without Melky etc., and he just calmly said “move on”. I got the feeling Melky wasn’t well liked. Pablo? After all the blather about all this, it’ll mostly be interesting to see how the team deals with it. And yeah, Loo, 3 in 4 (calendar) years, I also trust the brain trust…..
The LA Fuckheads now need Uribe again to play third…that is funny…
He may be better in Boston. He’s moving from a pitcher’s park to a hitter’s park. He could conceivably have his best seasons there.
Time will tell, but his splits between road/home are almost identical (BA is actually higher in SF).
I did have the feeling that if he was going to take the Red Sox deal it would be pretty immediate. The Giants were not that far off but I have had the feeling all season he would be moving on and even if I would have rather had Panda get his Giants money rather than the deals Scutaro, Pagan, Lincecum and some others from the recent past like Aubrey Huff’s extra two years have received, I think it is overall a good time for a change. I think we could all see Panda having 2-3 more great years and then a couple of bad years at the end when DHing for the Sox will be his likely every day assignment.
I’d rather also not throw $90 mill at Tomas and would rather get Cespedes for the one year he has left on his contract at $10 mill and that should probably get us $10-$20 mill to add at least one pitcher. Without the Panda contract, I would love Ervin Santana…3 years $40 mill would be good for me with Peavy as the backup option.
Cespedes for two of our minor leaguers. One top 5 and then a mid-level pitcher…
PTZS. Brilliant. And PTRS, for Rohand.
I had this feeling for a few days that Panda didn’t want to come back, especially after the “respect” comment his brother made…I loved Pablo, but he seemed a little too affected by the team/management on him about his weight etc…a warped sense of pride/respect or what is it looks like. Definitely reminds of when Uribe left and said he wanted more to stay with Giants, that, that is what would show respect…I’m glad they didn’t do 3/21 for Uribe, but was going to be okay with 5/100…oh well, this makes the offseason very interesting.
I guess the fact that I want to Sox to lose now (pssst, don’t tell my Red sox peeps) means I’m a tad bitter. Note to Pawlie: good time to embrace that zen impermanence you like to preach.
It would be so delicious to find all these (un)attributed (but unconfirmed by teams) reports, tweets, rumors, etc. wrong. But I’m grasping panda hats in the wind.
I’m just glad I never paid money for one of those dumb Panda hats.
He can DH in the future when he eats himself out of the infield.
Bing!
All that bullshit about wanting to stay a Giant and then he doesn’t let the Giants counter? Thanks for the memories, now don’t let the door hit you in your fat ass.
Biggest issue for Hanley besides declining D is his ability to stay on the field last few years. FG had a column on him that mentioned LF being likely best place to put him. Hey Sawx suffered through Manny being Manny, who wasn’t in there for his D either. Guess they hope Hanley doesn’t shove clubhouse guys around.
Sandoval I’m sure won’t miss playing 81 games at ATT (despite fan base), and the short wall in LF should do wonders for his RH stats. Plus he gets to play in division with other hitters parks in NY, Balt and Toronto. Park does factor into his numbers and ATT has a negative affect especially for power as LH, imo. Still he’s a .300 LH career; watching him rake low outside pitches to LF in playoffs was fun.
Speaking of a guy with declining skills/numbers, just say no to Cespedes. He doesn’t play OF very well despite arm, and is just as impatient as Sandoval. I think league has figured him out since breakout rook year and he doesn’t seem amenable to adjusting or changing his style. too many red flags.
Why I like Cespedes and his one remaining year
Panda hats are gonna look stupid in red and blue
Now that they have the dough, how about a Lester or a Sherzer? I understand the PTZR, but…ah nevermind. Just typing that made me gun shy. Bummy then Cain and pray for rain.
I think Panda’s agent is just being literal when he says he hasn’t signed the deal yet. Heyman isn’t an idiot and their are other reputable sources saying this is a done deal. And Evans was clear on KNBR this morning that Panda Camp never asked for the final offer for the Giants.
So much for loyalty to the fan base. Fare thee well dude. If reports that he was somehow “hurt” by the Giants’ offer before the season, that’s a joke. Evidently, the Giants were within $5M of the Red Sox offer and willing to match it. Sounds like he’s a little sensitive and his memory is a little cloudy. The guy has been treated pretty damn well by the club and especially by the fans. Hope the Sox got a fat clause in there.
Santa is fat. No clause about it!
lol. Took a few readings to catch that one. Hey, it’s Monday morning.
Ha ha yeah, I understand the whole slow Monday thing!! get another cup of coffee John, that’s what I did.
Its not Personal Sonny, it’s business.
You’re just on a roll this morning.
I was wondering who would recognize that line.
I’m afraid to even guess how many times I’ve seen that movie. Never get tired of it. I took your advice, Kevin. A couple of cups of coffee later and I’m starting to come around. It’s like those smelling salts they give the punch drunk boxers.
yep, One of the all time great movies.
I’ve said before that I think the perception of Sandoval has been wrong for the most part. Maybe he got sick of the whole fatso Panda marketing campaign. He went for the money. It happens. Maybe he was a Boston fan as a kid. Maybe he really likes clam chowder. Who knows?
In the end it will be a good move for the Giants. They can fill at least 2 needs with that dough and aren’t tied down for the future. I could see an attempt to buy out some of Belt’s FA years coming later this off season.
If he doesn’t like the “fatso Panda” marketing campaign, maybe he should stop weighing 260 pounds by the All Star break every year.
They did hassle him a lot about his lovable corpulence. He was benched in the 2010 playoffs. They didn’t act desperate to keep him after all he had done for them in the 2012 and 14 WS. He wants better stats. He hopes the nasty Boston fans won’t perpetuate the dumb ass Panda hats.
He was benched because he was stinking it up. Whether his weight was the cause or not, Boch is going to go with the hot hand, and that was Uribe. No Uribe, they probably don’t get past the Phils in the NLCS. Whatever. Like you guys have already said, the Giants can use the money to plug some holes. I wouldn’t mind seeing Lester come into the fold, but I’d really like to see Scherzer come on board.
What, you don’t think he would have automatically gone into his special playoff mode?
Lol. It sure didn’t look like it. I seem to remember oen of the Phillies’s games when he was in there and he completely boned a ball hit to him on the infield. We didn’t see much of him after that. I’m not sure how good the old brain is working though, so don’t quote me on it.
This Gustavo Vasquez sounds like he’s a slimy turd. In other words he’s being a good agent.
I think James is onto something re: “He wants better stats.”
Freaking Nate hit 20 bombs first season with Cubs, more than he hit entire career with Giants.
I’m sure Belt could hit 25 for the Brewers.
If you weren’t Barry Bonds, the park screwed you over as LH power guy.
I think others have mentioned this, too, WillieD. Pablo may think he gets back to the great numbers he put up earlier in his career with a fresh start and friendlier ballpark.
In the immortal words of Buster Posey regarding someone I can’t even remember: “move on.”
The Melk-man. The Giants have erased him from memory in the same way that Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young spent a lot of effort getting themselves removed from the Altamont film “Gimme Shelter.” Oh yes- CSNY were at Altamont, but they have pretty successfully removed themselves from the history of it.
brilliant analogy . . .like the Soviets and “disappeared” Politburo members
He’ll be missed but might be for the best in the long run. I hope Sabes gets creative, instead of just throwing millions at Zito and Rowand redux.
I think pablo was hurt by their offer but there were other factors. We may not know his true feelings until he after his career is finished. The hitter’s park angle is appealing, but is sort of nixed by the fact that he’s a career .853/ops hitter at ATT.
True, but he’s also still got an 811 ops for his career because of earlier success. If I thought he would put that number up for the next 3 years, I would be pissed that SF let him get away. His ATT numbers were down in 2013-14, too.
Billy Ripken on Hot Stove this morning: “If Sandoval starts off scuffling with the bat, out in Boston he’s going to hear some things he’s not used to hearing.”
I think those east coast fans are a lot less forgiving than we Giants fans. Ripken is on to something.
Some kind of poetic irony or something that the Giants and Dodgers will both be losing middle-of-the-batting-order guys to Boston. The Giants and Dodgers, always forever linked in rivalry.
Now everyone saying reports are not accurate. No decision has been reached.
“Pablo may think he gets back to the great numbers he put up earlier in his career with a fresh start and friendlier ballpark.”
Which I find interesting, James, because, is Fenway that great a hitter’s park for lefthanders? I haven’t looked up the dimensions, but that park has kind of a funky triangle in right-center, too. Of course, nothing like that 24-foot brick wall in rightfield, with incoming wind, so definitely better in that regard than AT&T. And maybe the Green Monster helps Pablo’s righthanded stats, which have been declining.
And, sure, Ted Williams put up great numbers there, but hey, he was Ted blankety-blanking Williams! Barry Bonds made AT&T look like a bandbox.
Well, yeah, but No. 25 had greater chemistry than Williams.
Fenway goes 310 leftfield corner, 379, 390, then 420 in the RCF triangle, 383, 380, and 302 (!) in the rightfield corner.
And, as other Flappers have mentioned, there are also hitter-friendly parks in the division, with Yankee Stadium being the biggest example.
Maybe Pablo and Ortiz were chatting, and Ortiz said something like “Hey, dude, you’ve already won 3 rings, we win rings in Boston, too; why not come out here and see what kind of numbers you can put up, and then in 5 years, cash in again on another big contract. Plus, I’ve been talking to Hanley….”
I saw a brilliant film at the local indie theater last night, “Birdman,” starring Michael Keaton. If Keaton doesn’t get an Academy Award nomination, the Academy should just pack up their trophies and quit.
“Birdman” will definitely get a cinematography nomination. Filmed to look like one continuous unbroken camera shot, it’s a dazzling piece of work. Edward Norton is great in a supporting role, and there’s several terrific performances by actresses whose names are escaping me at the moment.
It’s a film that is entertaining, poignant, humorous, and thought-provoking, and challenging to the audience. It’s not a perfect film, and it doesn’t seem like the kind of film that ever wins best film of the year. For one thing, it has some criticisms of the film industry in it. But the film is great, IMO.
Keaton is one of the most underrated American actors of my lifetime IMO. I’ve been wanting to see Birdman. Hopefully this weekend.
I saw it Saturday. Agree totally on the acting and cinematography, but I disagree on the rest: hated it. I thought that “existential search” crap ended in 1971. Save it for the Gauloises-smoking crowd in Paris and Stanford. And I dare say Raymond Carver rolling in his grave. Catch the Syracuse ref with Carver? He was at SU.
No spoiler alert? WTF?
The film will have mixed reactions. My wife didn’t like the darker elements of the film.
I’ m bummed about Pablo. I wanted him back in SF, and if he did leave, didn’t want to see him go to Boston. Like others, I fear he is going to be miserable there and his weight, slumps, and swings at bad balls will become a much bigger issue than they were here. I know his numbers here weren’t always great, but I thought he brought a certain love for the game and toughness that fit well on this team. I remember when several talking heads said he was gonna need to give up his elaborate pre AB routine after he got drilled or decked a few times. I honestly don’t remember him getting thrown at much, but in any case, he just kept doing his thing and everyone accepted that was Panda being Panda.
I’m still holding out hope this ain’t a done deal, but if it is, thanks for the memories Big Guy.
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 4m4 minutes ago
both hanley and panda deals are done, pending physicals,as red sox complete sweep. http://cbsprt.co/1viZ0aG
I too am STILL clinging to a shred of hope until confirmed by clubs. Aw, hell, Pawlie. Let. It. Go.
One thing I won’t miss is his OCD ritual every at bat.
Drysdale and Gibson would’ve laid him out for it.
Thats true. But I think Pablo would have calmly taken his base and still would have done his ridiculous routine the next time he came up against those guys. Thats what I loved about Panda.
The Giants scored more runs than the Red Sox last year. That probably hasn’t happened since the Ellis Burks era.
It’s time to say goodbye.
One of the most sadly beautiful “goodbye songs” ever written, by one of the greatest songwriters ever, Brian Wilson:
Worst case scenario? Pandamonium in Bahhhstin as atonement is finally achieved for the inane opera-loving RedSox owner back in the early 20’s peddling Babe Ruth off to the Evil Empire for money to put on some more fat women singing and screeching.
So Sandoval goes ape at Fenway and forms an agreesome threesome with Ortiz and Hanley, smashing hits and homers all over hell and gone in the Dink Hitter league’s cushy Eastern Division with its playing to the masses policy of all emphasis on offense. Early in Pablo’s career with SF he did remind me of a Venezuelan version of the Babe. But then he started sagging ~ except in the Post Season.
With more offense than Patton’s 3rd Army Baaahstin is somehow gonna hafta come up with a passel of pitchers who specialize in special-K’s and routine 5-3 and 6-3 grounders. Anything less than that and a suspectedly porous defense is gonna make for a lot of 11-8 games and suchlike footballish nonsense.
So here’s to the memories of that physical and emotional hybrid somewheres between Kirby Puckett and the Babe and his contributions to those three Parades down Market Street. Wishing he has a good time in Beantown and hoping he will make as many fans and friends there as he made and has now disappointed in The City and throughout the Giants Universe.
On to business. Giants front office in one sense will breathe a sense of relief and likely re-up the team’s remaining free agents ~ at least the ones who are still likely to contribute.
Money saved will be money carefully focussed and directed ~ most likely towards a solid #3 starter and possibly to a third baseman and left-fielder as well. With three rings in the bank and a now somewhat expectatious fan-base, the ownership circle and front office should be ready to make some moves.
A more than serviceable #3 starter is priority #1. Period. Money should be no object if the guy in mind has good prospects of no noticeable decline in performance in anywhere from a 3-5 year outlook. We get that solid third starter and everything else should tend to slide into place.
Third base: It is just possible that Duffy will be more than the journeyman which had been his tag before that callup. When a slender guy like him rakes in the pitching-rich Eastern League it is possible that the player development folks and he, himself, may have ratcheted his talents beyond those of earlier projections. A steady if unspectacular performer, particularly with defensive skills in no great decline, might represent a good pickup for Third, just in case.
A somewhat similar situation obtains with LF. Mac Williamson has been off many fans’ radar screens since he went down to injury early last season at Richmond. Up to his injury Williamson was even more devastating on EL pitching than Duffy. High average, some fair slash power and good speed are nice qualities at any position. Willilamson should be over his injuries and ready to roll come March. Whether he ready to make the big jump right away may be in question. So my take for acquisition of LF help would be some guy like the retention of Morse. Easy step. With Blanco and Perez available for defense and occasional starts, Morse should be able to contribute enough at the plate early in the season so that, if he does what i think he may for the Rivercats, Williamson could get the call around the Break and Morse could revert to being the #1 threat off the bench.
The loss of Sandoval is both a diminishment of the team and a potential re-set button. I’m fairly certain that the Brass has done their dues on contingency plans post-Pablo. Expect some quick moves.
I don’t pretend to know what happened with Boston last year but they lost 91 games last year. I just see it as a strange move by Sandoval.
Hopefully SF gets a legit SP with that dough.
Fire sale on Panda hats, or will the Sawx pick up the overstock?
Fenway not a hitter’s park? My Kid could probably throw it over the right field corner and hit Pesky’s Pole or whatever the hell they call it.
I think if we have learned anything it is not offer a Lester or Scherzer a 6 or 7 year deal or bring in mediocre likely past their prime players like Headley. Extending our stars like Pence and Posey and the Bum eventually to a much longer deal is the wiser option and then add in sensible deals. Ervin Santana to 3 years is a deal that makes a ton of sense to me, especially with Hudson and Timmy on their last year’s of their contracts.
I have heard 6/130 for Lester (that Boston was ready to offer that even with them bagging HanRam and Pablo). No way I want to see the Giants go more than five years with ANY pitcher.
I am bummed about Pablo, but have been ready for almost a week for it to just be done…regardless of the outcome.
I am sure Melky burned his bridges with the team, and that is too bad. I would take him back in a heartbeat (he had better numbers than Pence or Pablo last year…tied Pablo in HRs and RBIs).
And next Flapalooza, I owe you all you Flappers present a drink of your choice on me (I had guaranteed Pablo would be back).
Time for Sabes and crew to make the moves that translate into an World Series Championship. Next…
I wonder how played Bobby Evans got in this process. He was like the guy from Dumb&Dumber this morning: “so you’re telling me there’s a chance…”
And yet, as of this morning, the Giants had never gotten a chance to even submit a final offer. It’s almost like Sandoval’s agent just used the Giants as leverage. If so, I’m surprised that Pablo signed off on that.
I heard Matt Duffy got an extension earlier today. If that’s true, why would the Giants do that? They already control him?
Dave Flemming @FlemmingDave 1m1 minute ago
Ortiz a huge factor in how he recruited him. Don’t want to wade out of my depth but I don’t believe Pablo’s agent/bro were real buttoned up
Yeah, close or not it’s never a good idea to mix family and business that way. Just my opinion.
Dave Flemming @FlemmingDave 29s30 seconds ago
I do remember over the years Bochy would say Pablo was very very happy to serve as DH in AL parks. Some guys don’t like it, he loved it
After PG&E tried to blow up his mom’s house, who could blame Pablo for wanting to move on?
lqtm. The suits man. Always f-ing it up.
I think there is something to the All Caribbean team now residing in bean town. Sandoval probably sees them all during the off season or they travel in sort of the same circles. He bros with all these dudes and wants to play with them. I don’t think he ever intended to come back and his agent certainly handled this like a rookie. Oh, well. So it goes.
I agree with Stick and what some other Flappers have said, the loss of Pablo is also the opportunity to move on, and use the money for other areas, especially another starting pitcher.
Some have mentioned sign Morse, and also make up some of the loss of Pablo with a full season of Belt, and hopefully a full season of Pagan. Maybe Belt has a big breakout All-Star season. It’s not impossible.
Brian Murphy@knbrmurph·34 mins34 minutes ago
Counterintuitively, his AT&T career average (.313 !) > career road (.277) RT @jgp65 Any chance Pablo wanted to hit in hitter friendly park?
0 replies3 retweets5 favorites
At least he’ll be able to afford to feed himself.
Because he’s pretty big. I get it.
“Hargesheimer” is a sweet handle, though. I tip my cap to you on that one.
One way to compensate would be if Panik could develop Robby Thompson or Ray Durham type home run power. He’s much bigger than both those guys and just might have it in him…
Good article on Yahoo sports
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/without-pablo-sandoval–what-do-the-giants-do-now-214108295.html
I like this option! 🙂
“GET CUBAN OUTFIELDER YASMANY TOMAS
He’s one of the last power bats left on the market, and his potential has executives gawking. We’ve seen Cubans come to America and shine — from Jose Abreu to Yasiel Puig and Yoenis Cespedes. Now Tomas is expected to fetch the highest contract of them all. His power has reached campfire-story level, writes Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan, and he fits a clear need for the Giants. He can play left field. That was the Giants’ big gap before Sandoval left, and they can still pursue that, spend big there and find cheaper options at third. Tomas is probably also the acquisition that would most excite the fan base.”
An interesting perspective: https://twitter.com/DSzymborski/status/537029506226458624/photo/1
From Pavlovic:
“The Giants offered Sandoval a five-year, $95 million deal last week, per multiple sources, and indicated a willingness to up the ante to $100 million to get a deal done. They have a history of keeping their own — especially after championships — but Sandoval opted for a fresh start. He called assistant general manager Bobby Evans on Monday afternoon to inform him of the final decision.
“He said it was a really difficult decision and he was spending a lot of time with his family trying to contemplate what was best,” Evans said. “He felt like he needed a new challenge, and he wanted to try something new.”
That should eventually include a new role. In discussions with the Giants over the past week, Sandoval’s agent, Gustavo Vasquez, made it clear that his client was drawn to the possibility of being a designated hitter. The Red Sox have one of the best of all time in David Ortiz, but the slugger who played an instrumental role in recruiting Sandoval turned 39 earlier this month and likely will retire sometime during Sandoval’s new deal. The DH role was one the Giants could not offer, and it could be a key for Sandoval, who has battled weight issues throughout his seven years in the Majors.”
Red Sox are building expectations; they will get a lot of preseason media buzz. They still have pitching issues, though. And Hanley and Pablo tend to miss quite a few games during the season.
new thread.