THE San Francisco Giants Blog

What is the Point of the Qualifying Offer?

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 15, 2014

Why would any player who has market value accept a qualifying offer? Ten of the 12 have already signed big deals and the 2 guys who haven’t signed yet are named Sherzer and Shields.

I don’t even really understand why a team makes a qualifying offer if they know it’s going to be rejected. Draft picks are no longer given to the teams who give qualifying offers and lose the player to another team. Or maybe they are to team who lose a player who played the entire season with them? I’m unclear on the rules, if anyone has a good link I’d appreciate it.

Either way, since they always get rejected and the player always goes on to sign a giant multi-year deal with someone else, it all seems like a waste of time to me…..

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  1. Bozo said, on December 15, 2014 at 7:31 am

    I think this Bleacher Report explains it pretty well while also suggesting changes.
    http://tinyurl.com/n9yhp5a

    Basically (if I have this right), the team that loses the FA gets a sandwich pick after the first round. The team that gets the FA loses a first round pick (as long their pick isn’t one of the first ten) or the next highest pick if they don’t have a first rounder. In addition, the amount of money for a first round pick is subtracted from the budgeted Draft pool dollars for that team.

  2. willedav said, on December 15, 2014 at 7:37 am

    Having to give up the draft pick scared teams off guys last year though–Kendrys Morales and Stephen Drew that I can recall off hand. Usually if you sign one of the guys that have the QO it costs you a first round pick, not insignificant.

    I’m surprised Sac fired the coach too, he was highly regarded. Local angle is Malone is who some in Dubs FO wanted to hire instead of Jackson, and Jackson ignored his advice as assistant. I thought Kings were building something and Cousins was much improved; West conference very competitive, 9-6 record is fine.

    GM has made curious moves, trading off most of the guards who scored a lot of points and got PT last year. Fredette was never gonna make it–too slow to defend anyone and would have to learn how to play without the ball and being focus of the offense like he was in college. He could eventually develop into Kyle Korver or JJ Reddick type of guy but seems incapable of adapting. Stauskas could develop too into *stretch 4* guy like Ryan Anderson that helps spread floor and keep double teams off Cousins and Gay.

    Some players talents translate to NBA game, some don’t. But all rooks have a lot to adapt to, esp those that come out early–this is a man’s game and you are on low end of totem pole, and shots and money that comes with the points per game avg. do matter.

    • Flavor said, on December 15, 2014 at 8:38 am

      Can’t believe Sacto fired their coach. He must have had a falling out with the GM. Anyone with a brain can see they started losing once Cousins went down with freaking Meningitis. Seriously, who gets that?

      • willedav said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:01 am

        Supposedly the owner Ranadive (helped out by Roger Craig of niners and formerly attached to Dubs) wanted more uptempo style, which would be opposite of low post/forward scorer half court guys like Cousins and Gay. And if that is what he wanted then what was point of trading speedy point guard Thomas–I thought that came because he wasn’t pass first guy who would get ball to the scorers. Malone seemed to have them playing better brand of ball vs. top flight comp.
        Kings really are haunted franchise done in by clueless owners and execs and just plain bad luck. How does an illness like what Cousins has even happen to millionaire ball players?

  3. Alleykat said, on December 15, 2014 at 8:56 am

    Looks like Chase Headley is off the list, Smankees about to sign him for 4 years.

    • Flavor said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:03 am

      good. they can have him.
      Time 4 to Sabes to sign Lowrie

      • zumiee said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:25 am

        Headley probably smelled a little Rowand-ish to Sabean.

  4. pawliekokonuts said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:10 am

    At 65, I do not take just any “qualifying offer”; I do have some discernment.

  5. zumiee said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:35 am

    The advanced metrics can make for some esoteric things. I read an article that said that new Dodger catcher Grandel threw out 17% of steal attempts last year (awful), but that he makes up for that loss of effectiveness with his skill at pitch-framing. Runs lost by bad arm can be made up by runs saved by good pitch-framing. Hmmmm….am I buying that? I don’t know. Maybe. It’s an interesting way to look at a player, in a holistic way, but it still seems that in the real 3D world, I’m nervous with a catcher that’s only throwing out 17% of steal attempts. The Padres felt the same way; Grandel was the #2 catcher for them by the end of last season. I’m assuming the Dodgers have him pencilled in as starting catcher, with Ellis probably being Kershaw’s “personal catcher.” Grandel was a key piece in the Kemp trade.

    • zumiee said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:38 am

      Grandel has some HR power, but low batting average. I’m not sure how that affects his overall ‘runs gained or lost’ ratio.

      • James said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:53 am

        OPS is basically all you need to look at. The value of a 740 OPS is the same no matter how you achieve it. Low batting averages mean you need to draw a lot of walks and the smaller number of hits means that many of those you do get have to go for extra bases.

        I know it’s boring and reductionist. It’s also fundamentally correct. In the abstract, a 300 hitter with a 740 OPS won’t produce more runs for your team than a 225 hitter with the same.

        The idea that pitch framing can make up for lousy throwing sounds ludicrous to me.

  6. Alleykat said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:38 am

    I’d trade for Will Middlebrooks from Boston to play 3B. Had a down year due to injuries, but has power and a good fielder and is only 27, has a smokin hot wife as wellūüėĄ

  7. pawliekokonuts said, on December 15, 2014 at 10:33 am

    Finally figured out why few signings, and especially trades, with Giants. It’s all a perverse compliment. Other owners look at “3 in 5” and get scared. They don’t want to help the Giants go “4 in 6,” so they back off.

  8. gianthead said, on December 15, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Headley got a bit less than that $63 mill plant job in the media leak. So glad we are not stuck with him.

    Where is the Cody Ross trade talk???

    Sac Kings with a professionally incompetent decision. Malone will be a highly sought after head coach. Watch the Kings owner go after Mark Jackson…

  9. gianthead said, on December 15, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    I asked a couple of friends here who are Phillies fans what bit would it take to land Hamels and one responded Crawford and Panik. That is amazing that Panik with 3 months big league experience would be this coveted. Panik in my mind is untouchable.

    But made me think if the Phillies wanted Crawford and 2 upper end pitching prospects and maybe a a third mid-level pitching prospect for Hamels, how the hell do you say no. Going Bum-Cain-Hamels would be devastating and could withstand anything the Dodgers threw.

    If that was something we could pull off, you have Stephen Drew available as a free agent to plug in at short. What do you all think?

    • Flavor said, on December 15, 2014 at 12:39 pm

      No 2 Drew. No one from the Drew family has ever been allowed on one of my fantasy teams, even the daily ones.
      Disappointment, they name is Drew…….

    • zumiee said, on December 15, 2014 at 12:45 pm

      I think Sabean is fully committed to maintaining the good clubhouse vibe, in the sense that he’s willing to risk a drop-off in the odd-numbered years, so to speak. Things are going so great, he’s just not going to make a radical move like trading Crawford.
      They feel they made a fair offer to Sandoval, and the fans will mostly see it that way.
      If Tomas does very well for the D-Backs, I could see some backlash coming towards Sabean on that. But, Sabean has so much good-will capital built up, he’s gold for quite a while with the fans.

  10. Flavor said, on December 15, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Lowrie got 3 years/23 mil from the (L)astros? Ha, fuck that.

  11. dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 15, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    It’s not disappointing to me to see the Giants miss out on overpriced free agents. It forces Sabean to stay on this path of developing the team internally which isn’t such a bad thing is it? Check out the game 7 starting lineup.

    G Blanco CF
    J Panik 2B
    B Posey C
    P Sandoval 3B
    H Pence RF
    B Belt 1B
    M Morse DH
    B Crawford SS
    J Perez LF

    6 players that came up through the Giants system. Pretty sweet.

    In some ways I think go sign Sherzer, move Pagan to left with Blanco in center, roll Duffy/Sanchez out at 3b and bring on the torture.

    • Flavor said, on December 15, 2014 at 12:54 pm

      the good news about Sherzer is that with the Lions and the Yankees saying they’re *out* on him there’s a good chance his value gets depressed a little. Who knows, maybe we get him for 150 million dollar bargain…

      • Alleykat said, on December 15, 2014 at 1:23 pm

        Schezer’s agent his Borass, no way Sabes gets involved with that dickhead!
        Tigers even threw 6/144 at him last year to sign and Borass said he could do better then that. Lol now teams like Detroit & Yanks with big payrolls are backing out and Scherzer should be pissed off right now.
        If anything “Big Game” Shields (still laughing about that title) value will go up more, especially since his agent isn’t Borass, so the Giants might still go after him.

  12. zumiee said, on December 15, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    The Qualifying Offer concept came as one of the bargaining points during the last big labor agreement in MLB. It’s something for the teams: a relatively high draft pick if the player rejects the QO and leaves as a free agent. I guess teams used to get zilch when someone left as a free agent. The players can make a ton of money as free agents; on the other hand they can’t become a free agent until 6 years service time or whatever. On the other hand there’s the arbtration process, and so on and so forth.
    After the ridiculous shutdown of ’94, and the loss of the World Series that year, the players and owners finally realized how much money they could BOTH make if they would just work together better.
    I’m still not sure the labor agreement is the best for competitive balance, without a team salary cap, but the luxury tax helps. That was a step in the right direction. And I don’t claim to know a lot about the labor agreement. My knowledge of it is on a superficial level.

  13. Nipper said, on December 15, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    Down with expensive FA. Most are just a waste.

  14. giants54 said, on December 15, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    I wish Giants would sign a 3b so I don’t have to keep reading…. could play X at 2b and move Panik to 3rd. Stupid idea, IMO.

    • Alleykat said, on December 15, 2014 at 5:59 pm

      Agree giants54,
      Stupid idea thinking of moving Panik to 3rd. He’s made to be a 2nd basemen in the same mold of Robby Thompson. And just like Thompson,he would not have the arm strength to play 3rd IMO.
      Scratch off another Outfielder.. Alex Rios to the Royals 1/11 chump change.

  15. paulinasia said, on December 15, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    I enjoy the headlines on MLB about these free agents arriving as their new teams’ new saviors. “Cruz set to take Seattle by storm”. “Headley sets sights on World Series title in NY”. “Lester says Cubs will win in 2015”. Nice that the Giants don’t *need* a savior, just need a couple new guys to fill a couple of seats on the 3-in-5 express.

    • pawliekokonuts said, on December 15, 2014 at 7:37 pm

      A Red Sox and Pirates fan said that to me in an email: when you are World Champs you do not have to do that much. (well . . . maybe)

  16. twinfan1 said, on December 15, 2014 at 6:04 pm

    Now that they’ve lost everybody they wanted, everybody they sort of wanted, and every single last resort, now they can move on to the guys who they wouldn’t take if they were free.

    • pawliekokonuts said, on December 15, 2014 at 7:36 pm

      Churchillesque.

    • giants54 said, on December 15, 2014 at 9:27 pm

      Hey, they got Justin Maxwell.

  17. sportdude said, on December 15, 2014 at 10:06 pm

    Crawford and Panik for Hamels? We should take that in a second. Love Craw but good fielding .248 hitters are not THAT hard to find, and panik had a good month. Even the Giants didn’t think he was good or he would have been up to solve our black hole at 2nd before the 100 guys including uggla we tried before him. I can’t seriously believe anyone wouldn’t take that deal…

    • paulinasia said, on December 15, 2014 at 10:15 pm

      So, get one pitcher (much needed, and he’s a good one), but then have to find a starting SS and a starting 2B (on top of a starting 3B and LFer)? I think Sabean has enough on his plate without adding to his workload. There’s more than just batting average to these 2 young dudes as the team’s young, up-the-middle infield. I’d love to see Hamels pitch in SF, but I wouldn’t love giving up those 2 and then have to find suitable replacements for them. It would be a ballsy trade, I’ll give you that…

  18. sportdude said, on December 15, 2014 at 10:07 pm

    PS before the backlash starts I like Panik too, but i would take a stud proven ace over an unproven middle infielder in a second.

    • paulinasia said, on December 15, 2014 at 10:17 pm

      Not backlash, ‘Dude… ūüôā Just counter-point. And actually, I think Panik “proved” himself pretty well, although obviously not yet for a long duration.

  19. zumiee said, on December 15, 2014 at 10:36 pm

    A guy I’d never heard of before, Sy Berger, passed away on Sunday. He’s the creator of the modern baseball card, in the 1950s.
    I own a fair amount of baseball memorabilia, but I don’t think think I own a single regular baseball card. I had some in the 1970s as a kid, but after moving a few times in the 1980s, the cards just eventually all disappeared. And then when the baseball card boom hit in the ’80s, I was sort of put off by the whole thing. I knew people who were buying big boxes of cards and putting them in their closets as….investments. Until they realized that so many other people were doing that, that the investment wasn’t going to appreciate in value all that much, I guess. And then the baseball card boom finally busted. The ’80s were also the time of the rise of the paid autograph. I never saw the appeal of that. Sure, I’ll buy a book or CD and get it autographed, but that’s because I want the book or CD.
    I mean, if kids aren’t buying baseball cards in those little packs with the piece of gum, then what’s the point? Berger didn’t invent baseball cards so they could be collected like Ming vases.
    When I was a kid, I liked the way the baseball cards retained the smell of the gum for a long time. The cards were real cool. I could see buying a pack of those things these days, if I still chewed gum, which I don’t because I don’t really understand gum-chewing anymore. It’s not an activity that makes any sense to me anymore, unless someone does it to stop smoking.

  20. zumiee said, on December 15, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    If you can stand Keith Olbermann, here’s a nice feature on Sy Berger:


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