THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Voggy, Come On Down?

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 22, 2015

The deal with the (L)astros looks to have fallen through. Apparently, Vogg’s read my thread a couple of days ago and said “on second thought, fuuuuuuuck that.” He’s now in negotiations with the Giants and I’m fine with that as you can never have enough starting pitchers on your staff not named “Kickham.”

So I may be jumping the gun here but welcome back, Voggy. We missed you?

๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

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  1. Giant Head said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:21 am

    We have a 5th spot to compete for…incentive based contract with a spring training invite?

  2. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:26 am

    What’s that old line? How can I miss you if you won’t go away?

  3. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:28 am

    I kid, but hey, throw vogie a bone and let them scrabble for that last spot.

  4. Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:35 am

    This is basically the text I shot to my buddy Mike last night on the topic of Vogey possibly coming back: “He would be cheap insurance. And when you consider Huddy’s age and surgery, Timmy being Timmy, etc. that would probably be a good thing (Vogey coming back). I want to keep Petit for emergency starts and long relief.”

    And WTF…when you toss in the “Enchilada Momma,” Nicole, it is all good!

  5. willedav said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:35 am

    “We missed you.” That’s pretty funny, esp alongside Snarkk’s POTD.
    Um, no we didn’t. This is so not helping. At least Sabes didn’t have to go too far to find another dumpster.

    Couple threads ago Flav asked about guys like Scut that came in/out and dominated. Only guy I could think of like him during 3 in 5 run would be Cody Ross, though he only joined team very late and didn’t do much to help reg season.
    After all the playoff heroics, 2011 was followed by more injuries and then he signed elsewhere. Likable guy too, the anti-Jose Guillen

  6. Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:39 am

    So, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

    I was talking with a colleague here at work. He just flew in from Denver yesterday…said it was snowing like hell. I know Blade was flying home yesterday, too. What a shock, from the tepid sultry temperatures of SE Asia to snow. Welcome home, Steve! Now we need to get started on planning a Flapalooza at the yard.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:06 am

      So, nice to be home . . . Thanks Chi! My friend Jeremy, picked me up at the airport around 5pm, but we didn’t get home until 9:30pm. Approx. 2 days total travel time from SE Asia, with layovers and delays. Ugh.

      The drive from the airport sucking, but it was nice to catch up with Jeremy and what was going on in my neck of the woods. Snow plus black ice = many people who don’t have a clue about driving in this shit. So, many sedans without 4wheel drive, much less front wheel drive, bald tires and/or coupled with unfamiliarity with driving in the white shit. Fortunately, Jeremy picked me up. He didn’t even have the Wrangler in 4wheel drive (expert driver in snow) until a couple of hours later, when it got so bad with people sliding off the road; or, going up (even) minor hills with non SUV vehicles and bad tires, then sliding back down. Ugh. We finally stopped in a Mexican restaurant a couple of miles from my condo and had dinner. Everyone I’m certain thought I was crazy in shorts, light shirt, and Keens footwear. Ha. Total drive miles was about 30 miles from the airport, where we attempted numerous alternative routes in a futile attempt to avoid the chaos. Anywho, we had plenty of time to catch up on what both of us had been up to and just going with the flow regarding the snow and traffic.

      By the by, anyone into Jeeps – give me a shout if you need a used one, parts, or want to sell yours for the best price you will get anywhere. Jeremy owns a used parts distributorship for “do it your selfers,” which is probably the biggest in Colorado. I’ll connect you with Jeremy.

      Quite nice to be using a real pc too, as I had bought a brand new HP with all the bells and whistles a couple of months before my trip and my Macpro laptop. Tablets and smartphones are ok, but fall far short of what PCs and laptops can do insofar as productivity.

      • Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:38 am

        welcome home

      • Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:43 am

        Jeeps – another potentially bottomless pit hobby. My friends who own them tell me that Jeep stands for “Just Empty Every Pocket.” I already have one of those hobbies with my Harley…where everyone who owns one knows that HD means “Hundred Dollars” (as in you do not walk into a shop without spending a Hundred Dollars). Enjoy the snow my man. Any planned trips to NorCal (I am thinking Flapalooza at a Giants game)?

      • DJLoo said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:25 am

        In Brooklyn, they used to say FIAT stood for “Fix it Again, Tony”
        Did that one make it to the west coast?

      • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:28 am

        Thanks Flav . . . Chi, I will be out in April (not certain of the date) for about 3-4 weeks. Definitely am going to a few games. Snarkk and I will go to at least one and anyone who wants to go, obviously is welcomed to come as well. I’ll also hit a SJ minor league game – had a great time last year doing this with Snarkk and Willie.

      • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:38 am

        Yep Loo . . . I had a 1982 turbocharged model. It was fun to drive, but as the nickname implies, it had problems after a year . . . Got rid of it before it really past its “pass due date” of 1-2 years. Ha.

      • Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 10:20 am

        Blade – keep me posted on your trip dates for April. I will definitley hook-up with you and Tom for a game. We should get as many Flappers as possible…Flapalooza, baby!

  7. Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:46 am

    It’ll be a major lg deal. They need him

  8. Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:43 am

    We need Voggy. You can hide a replacement level position player in the line up much easier than you can hide a replacement level starting pitcher in the line up. Right now I see Voggy going to the bullpen with a major league deal. When Timmy or Huddy shit the bed or someone gets hurt, now you have Vogg’s or Petit to replace them. Not Kickham (or someone like him).

  9. salty said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:25 am

    Zito as an Astro?

  10. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Vogie out of the pen? I guess it could work. Shit I didn’t think Timmy out of the pen would, but for a time, it did.

    Yeah, if there was a slow night in Aspen, we’d watch the flocks of Texans drive into town in their Caddys, and obliterate everything in their path as they slid through red lights.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:29 am

      lol

  11. giants54 said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:38 am

    Drag out the old fav, you can never have too much pitching.

  12. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Scoots DFAed.

    http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=12206118

    We could do worse for a bench guy if he comes Bach healthy.

    • giants54 said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:47 am

      Bench coach maybe. As a player, he’s toast.

    • Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 10:18 am

      As I mentioned yesterday, he was DFA’d to make reoom for Aoki on the 40. Giants intend to keep him around (no one will sign him given he had back surgery in December). Hey, long shot on coming back, but if he can…giddy up.

  13. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:52 am

    Yup loo. My brother had a 124. Great car til you bumped into a curb and the engine went out of tune and the valve cover started leaking oil.

    Ford
    Found on road dead
    Fix or repair daily
    First on race day

    Pontiac
    Poor old nimrod thinks it’s a Cadillac

    BMW
    Big money waste

    Mopar
    Many old parts arranged randomly

    • Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 10:19 am

      Ford – Fucked Over Rebuilt Dodge.

  14. willedav said, on January 22, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Vogs is a pure dumpster dive, sign of Apocalypse to me.
    I think Hudson will be fine and not much worse than last year. He pitched through the injury last season and it doesn’t involve his arm. Said he noticed it working out and preparing for 2015.
    Petit, imo, clearly deserves 30 starts as #5 guy. No doubt in my mind he is superior to Lincecum and Vogs, none. What would be the point of leaving better guy sitting on his butt in the pen? Hand him the ball every 5 days and let the other two sort roles out until Sabes has enough confidence in younger arm to step in.

    Today is b-day of one of my musical heroes, Sam Cooke…yet another guy who died under mysterious circumstances. What with premiere of Selma movie and recent MLK Holiday, nice to see some renewed historical perspective as to what people of color have endured in this country.

    One of the tracks on the Best of CD I have of Sam Cooke is “Change is Gonna Come”, recorded obviously a long time ago. CD starts with 2 cuts that go back to his gospel roots, “Touch the Hem of His Garment” and “That’s Heaven to Me”, which are just beautiful.

  15. Lurker John said, on January 22, 2015 at 11:00 am

    “Winning culture led Scherzer to Nationals.” Flippin’ boat load of money led him to the Nats. He’d be a Giant if a winning culture was his main goal.

  16. blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 11:17 am

    Flavor, I took your advice and am playing my first Fanduel FL basketball tourney tonight . . . Haven’t gambled since the GMen/baseball season ended.

    • Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 11:30 am

      4 game slate. Nice re-entry. I’m focusing mostly on college bball tonight. I also have 10 teams over at draft kings playing fantasy golf this weekend. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 11:40 am

        I would need to find out who’s who in College, before even attempting that . . . As it is, I’m not expecting much from my NBA slate this evening. As I alluded to in an earlier post, me trying to keep up with all sports, as well as play FL on a tablet, much less a smartphone; coupled with inconsistent WiFi overseas, along with a 14 hour time difference – is insane . . . So, I didn’t even attempt it.

        Anywho, I’m just playing for shit and giggles and amuse myself this evening (and for the next week or so, as I plan on staying close to home decompressing and relaxing from my trip).

        I’ll get serious about this shit when baseball season starts. Good luck this evening on your picks! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 12:40 pm

        I usually just look at the total (O/U), take the highest games and then take the players who get the most minutes–been working well so far……

    • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 12:53 pm

      Ironically, even with a 4 game slate, the paucity of choices (due to injury and many players having played last night), almost made me bail. However, I finally found players that I liked via “most minutes” played as you indicated.

  17. Irish Kevin said, on January 22, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    I am down with signing Viggs, he is up and down but who isn’t not named Bum/snot rocket/map. This is an interesting read on a slow baseball day
    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/107077934/mlbs-best-positional-debates-2015-kershaw-bumgarner?partnerId=ed-8907475-658620023

    • Alleykat said, on January 22, 2015 at 1:18 pm

      Kevin,
      Changing your mind on some of these old guys bro?

      • Irish Kevin said, on January 22, 2015 at 2:24 pm

        Ha ha only when that is the only option! And I don’t think Huddy is going to last more than 3 months.

  18. Irish Kevin said, on January 22, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    And the BBOT’D is looking good!!

  19. zumiee said, on January 22, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    The Petit situation is interesting. The Giants really like him in that super-sub role. He seems to thrive in it.

    • El Cap said, on January 22, 2015 at 1:23 pm

      Exactly!

      It’s like the idea of moving Posey to 3b or Belt to LF. Trust Giants to know what is best. give it up trying to out smart them. They spend all their time at this, not just 20 min in the morning half asleep or at night after a pint of bourbon.

    • willedav said, on January 22, 2015 at 1:34 pm

      Sure, but to me Lincecum and Vogs have proven that as SPs they are pretty close to done.
      How many years have fans here been waiting for TL to regain form/adjust?
      He’s in perfect park with excellence of Bochy and Rags, and continues to flounder.
      Time to see if pen and limited innings will increase value to the team.

      • Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 2:38 pm

        True. But even with all of that said, I still want Petit in the emergency start/long-relief role. I would rather see Tim in the pen, and Vogey in the 5 slot, but am happy letting Bochy and crew sort it out. Regardless, I do like the idea of bringing Vogey back as insurance.

  20. zumiee said, on January 22, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    Flipping the dial the other night, I saw some of the movie “North Dallas Forty” again. A case could be made it’s the best movie made about team pro sports so far, and certainly for football. All the moral and ethical ambiguities about grown men getting paid to play a game, and the huge pressure on them to win.
    And just a very entertaining film, with laugh-outloud moments, and moments of great poignancy.
    It holds up rather well, I think.

  21. zumiee said, on January 22, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    Interesting article, Kevin. Kershaw’s had to wear his post-season performance all this off-season. I would think that someday Kershaw will get it done in the playoffs. But it’s pretty amazing how bad he’s been in the playoffs so far. Bumgarner has made important contributions to 3 World Series championships. How does Kershaw ever get close to doing that now in his career? We’ll see how the future unfolds.

    • Irish Kevin said, on January 22, 2015 at 2:26 pm

      I thought the Catcher comparison was interesting also.

  22. snarkk said, on January 22, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    Agree with Willied, Petit should start over Timmy or Voggy. Why keep the better guy to go long in games you are behind or getting smoked?

    • DJLoo said, on January 22, 2015 at 2:34 pm

      I don’t think they’ll use Petit when they’re getting smoked, snarkk.
      I figure he comes in before things get too far out of hand.

    • Chipower9 said, on January 22, 2015 at 2:44 pm

      It is called saving your bullpen, and he has been one of the best (if not the best) the past couple of years. I say keep him in the pen.

      • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 3:40 pm

        Agree. Why put him in a new role, when he is already performing outstanding in the one he’s in? Our bullpen is fine as is. Similarly, I am down with the outfield too (especially with Aoki on board).

        Regarding our starting pitching, I liked what Sabes has done thus far – Sandoval, Tomas and Lester – in all cases, the Giants were willing to spend big money, but the players chose to go elsewhere. In other instances, Sabean opted to not push for players who appear to be overpaid or a major injury risk. Just my opinion, but let the dumb ass Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, etc., overpay for talent. We have good minor league pitchers who may not be ready this year, but they are going to improve our starting pitching in 2016 . . . or, 1-2 of them can be used for a mid season trade if we are in the race. Regardless, I have confidence that Rags and Bochy can squeeze sufficient performance this season out of Lincecum, Hudson, Peavy, and Cain.

        Yeah, this off season may be boring for most Giants fans, but usually “slow and steady” wins the race. Still basking in Colorado. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • salty said, on January 22, 2015 at 4:09 pm

        In agreement, Blade.

        Welcome back! Kept up with your travels. Thinking ou might decide to move there for half the year?

  23. Irish Kevin said, on January 22, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    Don’t know if this was known or not
    Giants beat writer Alex Pavlovic joined Murph and Mac Thursday morning to let Giants fans know they shouldn’t expect to see Marco Scutaro in a Giants uniform ever again.

  24. salty said, on January 22, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    Petit as a starter 12 games
    5.03 era.

    As a reliever 27 games…1.84

  25. FanSince59 said, on January 22, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    I love Vogie and all that he has accomplished…but I think he is toast and the G-Men need to move on!

  26. blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    Thank you Salty. Not too worried about allowing the season to unfold with what we have (if that’s the plan with Sabes and ownership) . . . With 3 WS Championships – they deserve our patience and trust.

    I’m uncertain about being over there for that much time. I had a lot of fun and met many people. However, I would be lying if I said I didn’t miss family, friends, and my home (especially during Christmas). My mom and step dad are in excellent health, but who knows going forward? Moreover, I like my Colorado home and the area as well. Still contemplating what I want to do, e.g., volunteer work is something I have done heavily in the past, but haven’t done much of the last few years. Consequently, I may become more involved . . . Dunno at this point. Thanks for asking. I hope you and yours are well Salty. ๐Ÿ™‚

  27. Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    Bill Walton is, without question, the best color announcer in any sport. And there’s no close second place……

    • DJLoo said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:15 pm

      He probably also had the greatest single individual performance ever in a college basketball game.

    • Macdog said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:53 pm

      I remember one of the reasons I was excited to attend Nets-Lakers Game 3 of 2002 NBA Finals was I would be spared from listening to Walton.

  28. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    Did you catch Bill Walton last night during the Dub game? He gave the most glowing, loving, and supportive talk about Jim Barnett and the help Barnett gave him as a young athlete and up-and-coming big man. During a high school training camp.

    I was floored at how eloquent he was and how unabashedly he proclaimed his feelings. Barnett was fairly speechless and brushed it off, but not without returning the feeling. Totally unexpected.

    • Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:56 pm

      missed it. Is that on comcast somewhere?

  29. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:35 pm

    I mean, shit, I’m biased because I must have talked to him about 15 times at the various dead shows I saw him at. Plus he overcame a major speech impediment. Something that is close to me.

    Hard to miss the 7′ guy with the flaming red hair. None of the deadheads knew who the hell he was.

    They just figured he was Sasquatch.

    • Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:43 pm

      I’m assuming he’s easy to talk to? Or is he always trying to bust a subtle Dead line?

  30. Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    This is going to not get appreciated because you probably didn’t hear it. But here’s an example of how rad Walton and his partner Dave Pasch go back and forth: During the UCLA/Stanford game a couple of weeks ago, Pasch, out of nowhere, goes “You gave me a block of cheese for my birthday.” Walton nods his head and immediately responded “Yes…” and he says “yes” with absolute confident affirmation….And then there was a long pause….It was absolute gold. I re-wound it 10 times. This back and forth happened DURING THE GAME, lol……

  31. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    I know a lot of people think he’s a chump but I’ve always liked Walton. I remember he used to call clipper games and I thought he was hilarious.

    • Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:41 pm

      He’s definitely got his negatives, but he’s no chump. But for my money, there’s not a better color announcer out there. And he’s got a great partner in Pasch. Again, if you aren’t into humor these cats won’t be your thing.
      And I just realized I need to stop ending threads with 3 gay smiley faces.
      Winter is ruining me…….

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:48 pm

        I like the humor man. Take this quote from Brady’s presser today for example:

        “Some guys like them round. Some guys like them thin. Some guys like them tacky. Some guys like old balls.”

        Hilarious.

      • Flavor said, on January 22, 2015 at 8:48 pm

        lol, see? Absolute fucking GOLD.

  32. willedav said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Tim Lincecum ERA last 3 years:
    5.18
    4.37
    4,74 total of 98 starts

    Ryan Vogelsong (turns 38 in July 2015) last 2 years
    5.73
    4.00 total of 51 starts

    Seriously? These 2 are better than Petit at this stage of their careers? No way

    • giants54 said, on January 22, 2015 at 9:51 pm

      The point is, neither of them are going to be anywhere as good as he is in relief. To jump up at a moment’s notice and throw strikes, is a tough gig. What was that record he set in consecutive outs??

      • James said, on January 22, 2015 at 11:13 pm

        Assuming one of these 3 pitches a full season as a starter, that’s 180-200 innings. Petit won’t pitch that many innings as a bullpen guy. He threw 117 as a spot starter, long reliever last year. He clearly has demonstrated the ability to throw 5-7 innings at a time. Petit has put up a ~3.6 ERA as a Giant. In 2013, he was used mostly as a starter, meaning the splits Salty cited have little to do with what role Petit was playing when he got roughed up. The dude will get his ass kicked from time to time no matter what his role is because he’s not that great.

        If Petit is the best of the 3, he should throw the most innings. Doing otherwise increases the number of runs your staff gives up. That’s not good for your team’s W/L record.

      • snarkk said, on January 22, 2015 at 11:30 pm

        Thanks, James. Now them’s some stats that make sense. Petit is a better pitcher that Timmy or Voggy, period. Ergo, he should pitch more innings than they should…

  33. zumiee said, on January 23, 2015 at 7:20 am

    Petit had a little bit of Nate Schierholtz Disease last season. The more he started, the worse he did.
    For whatever reason, he excels better coming out of the bullpen. Maybe it’s a thing where he needs to pitch more than once every five days to stay sharp. Some players are like that; destined to be bullpen guys. As it is, Petit excels that way. The Giants want to see if they can keep him in the role where he’s at his best.

    • James said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:01 am

      He did fine as a starter in 2013. He pitched far too few innings as a starter last year to draw any such conclusions, Zumie. What he has proven is that he can excel pitching several innings in a game. The psychological stuff is highly dubious in his case, as for most players.

  34. paulinasia said, on January 23, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Give Petit the role of starter, he will be a starter. He always said he would do whatever is asked; make him a starter, he’ll pitch like a starter. That probably won’t happen to start the season, but I wouldn’t be surprised if by mid-May, someone will go down, or suck, and Boch will say to him, you’re a starter, and he’ll be a starter, and probably be better than 1 or 2 of the opening day guys. Having someone capable in the “emergency role” is important, but at this point, leaving Petit in that spot will likely not benefit the team as much as having him start 30 times. If Vogelsong can fill that emergency role, I’d certainly opt for Petit starting over Voggie. That said, sentimentally, I’d still love to see Lincecum have a great last year in San Francisco…

  35. willedav said, on January 23, 2015 at 7:39 am

    Walton’s always been pretty funny, holding his own vs. Steve Jones doing NBA stuff. He will go off on a tangent during games, talking about seeing the Dead at Golden Gate park, or majoring in “Library Studies” while he was UCLA, but I think he brings unique perspective to the game.
    He’s not consumed by the minutiae like the X and O guys that break down every single play into a coaching clinic. He was doing the Arizona -Utah game last week where UA point guard McConnell was dominating and Walton likened it to great Classical composers like Tchaikovsky. Then his partner said, “I don’t think Chopin ran the pick and roll like that.”
    He was ultimate competitor too who could do anything and everything on the court—run shoot pass defend rebound/outlet and score inside and out. First couple years in Portland he stepped right out of UCLA and dominated.

  36. paulinasia said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:11 am

    I’m not a big basketball fan, so I don’t remember if Walton’s career ended in Boston, but he was there while I was there, and you’d see him around, a real everyday kind of guy. Couple of summers, early ’80s, I played in a fast-pitch softball league in Cambridge and saw Walton a couple of times, riding his bike around the parks; one time he even stopped by to watch our game for a bit, in a little park just outside Harvard Square, chattin’ it up with whoever was lingering around the backstop. Genuine guy, I’d say. Hey, maybe he and Timmy have some things in common and he could straighten Timmy out….

  37. willedav said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:12 am

    Here’s a thread waiting to happen—what role do you see Lincecum as best suited for?
    He has been in steady decline now for 3 yrs straight as SP–look at his walk rates, HRs given up, ERA/FIP, BA against, whatever–how can anyone realistically expect that to improve?
    I think it possible he can regain something out of the pen throwing limited innings in certain situations such as starting an inning fresh, given Rags help and experience. But Rags hasn’t been able to get him right now as SP for 3 yrs.
    I also think it’s sad to watch him get his ass kicked and get knocked around the yard as an SP.

    I liked what blade said last season– he’s a “match up” guy who will do well vs. certain situations/teams. Unfortunately one team he used to own, Padres, just added 3 bats to middle of order.

  38. unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:23 am

    Guess who’s signing a one-year deal?

    • unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:24 am

      Here’s a hint. It ain’t Vinnie Barbarino.

  39. unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Willie, the problem is, Timmy gets tantalizingly close to showing what he used to do. I mean, the no-no last year was efficient and he got ahead in counts, yadda yadda yadda.

    It all seems to be his fastball. If he can spot it, he can get ahead, otherwise, it’s BP.

    • willedav said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:02 am

      I know man, the flashes of brilliance are fun to watch. Just all to few over course of a season.
      I just think if he only had to go an inning at a time and face 3-4 guys, it would be so much easier. Less wear and tear, no 3 ABs a game vs. individual hitters, nothing to hold back, etc.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:20 am

        That’s the rub. If they can get him to repeat his success . . .

  40. unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:37 am

    Can’t find the in-game interview that tall chick did with Bill Walton.

  41. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:38 am

    Is anyone else wondering if the Vogelsong reunion is possibly related to the post surgery health of Cain or Hudson?

  42. unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:40 am

    PIA, that’s the deal. When Petit HAS been given the role of starter, he has struggled. He seems to thrive in the role of long dude. Not that he’d be worse than Timmy/Vogie, but neither of them would be as good as Petit is in his role.

    • James said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:37 am

      Chuck, he didn’t struggle in 2013. There is no solid evidence whatsoever that he can’t put up a 3.5 ERA as a starter. The role of middle reliever can never be as valuable as a starters.

  43. unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 8:40 am

    I hope it ain’t Cain, dirt.

  44. salty said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:32 am

    Maybe Petit’s relief numbers last yr were a fluke. We’ll see. But for now, that’s the role he’s thriving in. Why mess with that?
    Two HOF relievers Eckersley and Fingers were both good starters–Eck won 20. Was there argument they should return to starting? Obviously exceptional cases but point is, they found their niche. Petit after bouncing around for 10 years may have found his.

    • James said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:42 am

      Salty, when he made the switch, Eckersley was still able to throw hard for an inning at a time, but not over an extended period. You might mess with it if 80% of your starting rotation comprises aging and recently injured question marks.

  45. salty said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Patti Smith still rocking at 68. Saw her when ‘Horses’ came out. She still puts on a good show.

    • James said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:44 am

      Regrettably missed those shows. What a great garage band that was.

  46. zumiee said, on January 23, 2015 at 9:49 am

    James, I didn’t necessarily mean psychological aspects of starting vs. relieving, but more-so actual physiological differences.

  47. Flavor said, on January 23, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Jon Heyman โ€@JonHeymanCBS 11m11 minutes ago Manhattan, NY
    vogelsong deal will pay him $4M plus incentives, reports @AlexPavlovic. that is about same $ the astros were talking about.

  48. Flavor said, on January 23, 2015 at 10:06 am

    To answer WillieD’s post from above, I think it might be totally realistic to keep Timmy in the bullpen in 2015. Did he even throw a pitch in the post season? Like one inning? Something like that? The Giants are saying he’s going to start in 2015 but with Voggy coming back I think Timmy might just be seen as he was at the end of 2014— the 12th guy on the staff……..

  49. James said, on January 23, 2015 at 10:10 am

    Looking at the game logs, Petit was really crushed in two of his 11 starts. Out of his 39 appearances, 27 of them were in losses. Using him as a middle relief innings eater is an illogical waste.

  50. Macdog said, on January 23, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Welcome back Nicole!

  51. Alleykat said, on January 23, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    To answer your ? Earlier Salty:
    Petit retired a ML record 46 consecutive batters!
    That’s getting it done.
    Ironically I believe he gave up a hit to a pitcher to end his streak, go figure.

  52. zumiee said, on January 23, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    “Using him as a middle relief innings eater is an illogical waste.”

    Well, “innings eater” is kind of a loaded phrase, IMO. As others have mentioned, the Giants won’t be using Petit in blow-out games.

  53. unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    Well James I don’t see the giants changing petit’s role anytime soon. Like I said, what they possibly gain by him as a starter would be more than negated by whoever they put in his role.

    His ‘illogical waste’ deployment last playoffs was a huge necessity.

    • James said, on January 23, 2015 at 1:49 pm

      Chuck, I am referring to the regular season. See W/L number above about games he appeared in. When you are behind in the middle of the game, you usually lose. The idea that the Giants or any team will be more affected by the quality of their long man relative to one of their starters is not backed by any facts or . . . . logic.

  54. chipower9 said, on January 23, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    I am sticking with the illogical on this one.

    Petit will stay in the pen. Book it!

    If he starts, it will be as an emergency.

    Next…

    • James said, on January 23, 2015 at 2:14 pm

      Chi, I didn’t speculate about what the Giants will actually do.

  55. blade3colorado said, on January 23, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    James, I “love” ya to death . . . I’ve met you and you’re quite personable. A very good guy! ๐Ÿ™‚

    However, in my opinion – you make no sense regarding your blanket statements about a player’s worth or non-worth. Just in this thread, you’ve made these statements:

    1. “The psychological stuff is highly dubious in his case, as for most players.”

    I suggest you read “The Psychology of Baseball,” where psychologist Mike Stadler of the University of Missouri took a look inside baseball to see what mental abilities and traits major leaguers have that allow them to succeed in the high-pressure, precise and highly psychological game of baseball. Here is one of his quotes,

    “Baseball is impossible without psychology: impossible to play, and impossible to appreciate fully as a fan,” Stadler wrote. “Watch any game, and most of what you see is thinking.”

    2. “Using him as a middle relief innings eater is an illogical waste.”

    Your opinion . . . Dollars to donuts, the Giants will not move him to a full time starter role. By the way, I will deposit $100 or any amount you want to bet the Giants do not start the season with him as starter . . . Give me a shout when you’re ready to take that bet.

    3. “Chuck, I am referring to the regular season.”

    Excuse me? The post season is not important?

    4. “In 2013, he was used mostly as a starter, meaning the splits Salty cited have little to do with what role Petit was playing when he got roughed up. The dude will get his ass kicked from time to time no matter what his role is because heโ€™s not that great.”

    You posted this after Salty had posted these relevant splits: Petit as a starter 12 games
    5.03 era. As a reliever 27 gamesโ€ฆ1.84. One more time – please explain why this split (or any type of split – since all of baseball uses them) DOES NOT MATTER?

  56. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 23, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    Saw that Ichiro signed with the Marlins. Kind of sad to see him gripping so hard at the end. I guess he really wants those 156 hits to get to 3K.

    • Flavor said, on January 23, 2015 at 6:54 pm

      He’s got way over 4K, I’m fine with counting those for a 1st ballot HOFer like Ichiro…….

  57. zumiee said, on January 23, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    I love me some James, too, ๐Ÿ™‚ , but….
    “When you are behind in the middle of the game, you usually lose.”
    I don’t see how Bochy can manage a game, or the players can play the game, if they were convinced to believe this. If Bochy puts Petit in during the middle of the game, with the Giants down by a run or two, Bochy is believing that game can still be won, and he expects his players to believe that. That’s more of the pyschological aspect, at that point, and ultimately the numbers, the odds, say differently; but the Giants have proven to be a team that has beaten the odds many times. It keeps them grinding away towards the ultimate goal, when I think a lot of other teams lose that will to hang in there, or seem to lose it, anyway.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2015 at 4:42 pm

      What they said. Haha! Thing is this psychological shit may not quantifiable but if they believe, then who’s to deny it?

      There’s a certain amount of buying in to what the coaches are selling. And there’s a lot of belief in one another. Roles change and such, but I’ll go with what has worked. I still think Petit is better suited for LR.

  58. Irish Kevin said, on January 23, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    @nicolevogelsong: Completely overwhelmed by the love being shown for Ryan… THANK YOU #SFGiants #GiantForLife

  59. Irish Kevin said, on January 23, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    @AlexPavlovic: Vogey: “I also have a wife that loves San Francisco and loves the fans and Iโ€™ve got her chirping in my ear every two seconds” about return.

  60. Flavor said, on January 23, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    a new and better thread awaits……


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