A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Winning 3 in 5 and Still Getting Rejected by The Free Agent Masses

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on February 5, 2015

Some of you probably saw this, but I just read that the Giants did, in fact, offer Big (Regular Season) Game James a deal last month— 4 years, 80 million. He rejected it and then they turned to Peavy and Voggy. Not exactly a pair that should be planned on making up for James-like production.

I would have done a 4 year deal with James and been fine with getting 2 years of solid “Cain-Like” production out of him. But whatever, he’s obviously got his sights set on more years/more dough.

I still don’t get why a guy like Shields wouldn’t want to come here in a nano-second. I think I’ve overestimated the important of winning to a major league baseball player……

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  1. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:25 am

    I hadn’t seen that but I feel ya man. From a Giants fan perspective this off season has certainly put a damper on the idea that winning is a factor for free agents. Maybe they just don’t want to come to SF due to some preconceived notion.

  2. Bozo said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:43 am

    I hadn’t heard that. I’m also surprised Shields didn’t take that deal. He grew up in Newhall so maybe he has hated the Giants since he was a kid. Or maybe his cousin Aaron Rowand talked him out of it. Who knows? It sounds like it was a pretty good offer with the added bonus of going to a Championship team and playing in a “Pitcher’s ballpark”.

  3. eddacker said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Well, having heard BrandonC state in his “why I signed” speech, “it’s winning and the clubhouse” and the way he said it and the words he said it with sounded a lot like one of BFs daily intro posts. SOME people read this column and like what they see. It makes sense to come to a team with winning ways.

    And great comments yesterday and today (already) because by the time the first ST game goes on March 3rd all the Flap’s men need to be in full posting condition.

    If you listen to some analysts Yoan is ‘beast mode’ in a baseball uni. And the tools he carries in that tool bag are huge. Yes, he is 19, but so was that player in SoCal and that other player in DC.

  4. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:17 am

    Jon Heyman, speaking on the MLB Network this morning, has San Diego now as the frontrunner to get Shields.

  5. Alleykat said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:27 am

    Yeah I heard The Padres as well for Shields. That GM is wheeling deals all winter, though so did that GM up in Seattle Jack Z a few years back and those moves didn’t work out well.

  6. wilcojoe said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:39 am

    I see Jeter’s girlfriend made the cover of SI’s swimsuit edition. I dont know how that guy ever managed to get out of bed, considering the women he has woken up next to…

  7. blade3colorado said, on February 5, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Bozo made some excellent comments on the last thread about our financial commitment this year . . . I didn’t go into the details that he did, but I mentioned the same thing a couple of weeks ago (i cited a web article) insofar as the Giants being very close to the Luxury Tax threshold. For the reasons Bozo stated, they would not have been a threat to go over this threshold if Panda was signed. However, that ship has sailed and so has Lester. Consequently, the GMen have given out smaller contracts to new players and solidified our Bullpen (which is the most expensive, albeit, probably the best in the NL, if not MLB). Signing one of these Cubans might be difficult in lieu of our other signings already – unless the Giants want to go over the Luxury Tax.

    By the by, I like Richard Justice, who used to write about the Astros I think. He is now with MLB. This artiicle Zumiee cited above is excellent and supports my position that Sabes “knows baseball.”

    • Bozo said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:11 pm

      Thanks blade, I just thought if you compare two teams revenues you should also add their salaries into the equation. Also, I thought that a bonus was paid in one chunk (still not positive about that) where as a contract like Pablo’s, although maybe the same amount as a signing bonus, was spread out over years.

      That doesn’t mean I’m against the Giants signing the kid, but I could see where the Giants would be cautious about it going forward..

    • Bozo said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm

      You were talking about 4x4s in the snow. Here we get many tows where folks don’t air down their tires and get stuck in the sand. Here is one where Andy let Barney drive.

      • unca_chuck said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:42 pm

        Hah. Knew a guy who bought a 1st gen Toyota pu. Took it to hmb to go 4 wheeling. Got stuck in the sand, and it took him about 4 hours to find help (me).

        Of course by then, the tide had come in and the water was about halfway up the windows. The cab and engine compartment were full of water. Pretty much totaled.

        When I hit the beach I aired down to 8 lb (had an old land cruiser and he looked at me confused. I said that’s why you are stuck and now underwater!.

        I pulled him out of the water but couldn’t get him completely out of there…


      • Bozo said, on February 5, 2015 at 2:10 pm

        True dat Unca, These guys posting for that Oregon Inlet Idiots FB page get some crazy photos of folks getting stuck in the summer.

      • blade3colorado said, on February 5, 2015 at 3:18 pm

        Great story Chuck. Still laughing . . .

  8. willedav said, on February 5, 2015 at 11:21 am

    Sabes sometimes has a plan than works outs, sometimes not. Panik was like his third or fourth option at 2b last year. OF back up was Blanco, who in light of another shortened season from Pagan spent way too much time at leadoff. I think Sabes missed a bet there last year.
    An OF of Pence Blanco Perez and Ishi isn’t gonna cut it in reg season. Aoki has been declining for 2 consecutive years offensively; last year his numbers were pretty close to Blanco’s. If you like those, fine.
    3b is tough spot to fill. I was against Headley at what salary he got, but MacG isn’t likely near as good a player as Headley, who hasn’t been as good as Sandoval.
    Giants bench still has Arias on it, and maybe Duffy Adrianza and/or Duvall, so Sabes hasn’t built much of an attack there either.

    I think Shields would have been a big asset to rotation that has a number of ?. He probably wouldn’t have to throw as many innings in the NL, esp with Giants pen and the expertise with which Bochy handles it.
    He’d also make me feel better about position players and how many runs Giants score this year with that LU.

  9. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 5, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    From what I have read about Shields he either misread the market or was sort of hosed by waiting on Scherzer to sign. The big market teams either aren’t interested or already made their moves. I suppose he’ll end up on some bottom feeder and the Big Game James moniker will inexplicably live on.

    • blade3colorado said, on February 5, 2015 at 3:58 pm

      Exactly. He blew it.

  10. gianthead said, on February 5, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    Thank God we dodged that Shields bullet. Count us fortunate. For so many athletes, it is all about the Benjamins baby. My hunch is that Shields wants no part of the NL and fears he will get lit up…

    • blade3colorado said, on February 5, 2015 at 4:03 pm

      Don’t know what you are talking about GH insofar as Shields fearing the NL West. More times then not, the NL is the weak sister with regard to hitting, particularly the West Division. Pitchers have it much tougher in the AL, especially with having to face a DH. If anything, the NL west is the place to be (sans Coors Field).

  11. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 12:54 pm

    Sabean’s career has been real interesting with the Giants in that he’s been GM during a change in home ballparks. He inherited a team that was built around Bonds and other hitters, in Candlestick, and rode that in the new ballpark, too, for as long as Bonds was great; and then after Bonds faded off, Sabean finally got to build a team that really fits well in the new ballpark, and has been really locked into a groove with it ever since. The Giants don’t always win at home, but there’s real nice synergy with the home ballpark, and opponents often look very uncomfortable there. And I wouldn’t discount the noise and energy of the home crowd either.
    The Giants the last 6 years or so have been like the Dodgers of the late ’50s to mid ’60s.

    • Nipper said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:01 pm

      Yes those Dodgers did it in 59 and in a football stadium of all things.

  12. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    Tough break for the Tigers: Victor Martinez injured his knee in off-season workouts. And thus begins the injuries of the new season. Always a hard thing to factor in or account for.
    Josh Hamilton’s shoulder is bad, and he’s going to have surgery. His career really nose-dived. It’d be hard to pick a team to win the AL West. That division seems really up in the air.

    • Nipper said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:03 pm

      Go A’s!

      • zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:09 pm

        A’s fans will definitely need a program at the ballpark, trying to figure out who all the players are.

  13. willedav said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    I think the chances Shields gets lit up in AL East for Yankees and Boston lot more likely than pitching half his games at ATT plus a couple more in Petco. The Latrine is more of a pitchers yard at night too.
    Don’t know what was going on last year, but Peavy was flat awful for Red Sox then pitched pretty decently for SF. I’d say Shields is a cut above Peavy…how long he can stay that way (or Peavy can), open to question.

    • blade3colorado said, on February 5, 2015 at 4:07 pm

      Didn’t see this Willie . . . Said the same thing to GH at 4:03pm.

  14. snarkk said, on February 5, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    If I’m a young FA pitcher, I’d come to SF to pad my stats for the next and final contract. If I’m a FA hurler looking for my last deal, I go where ever they pay the most…

  15. Alleykat said, on February 5, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    Billy Beane will swoop in on Shields in the end. Book it ! He’s my sleeper pick.
    Never enough arms on his staff, and he’s not sure Jarrod Parker will be ready to go..
    Then if the A’s crater by the break, he will just trade him for more prospects.

    • Flavor said, on February 5, 2015 at 3:36 pm

      If James didn’t take 4 years/80 mil from us he’s certainly not gonna take 2 years/25 mil from beane

  16. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    It’s interesting to see how the trends in signing players has affected the Yankees over the last several years. More and more teams are getting some of their best young players locked up in long contracts. The Yankees used to count on being able to just treat free agency season as their own personal buffet. There just isn’t as much in the buffet anymore.

    • Flavor said, on February 5, 2015 at 3:52 pm

      and what they do still have on the payroll—CC, Tex, A-Rod—those are 3 bazillionaires giving you basically nothing

  17. gianthead said, on February 5, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    catching up on the Moncada discussion. If we have to $80 million for the potential signing because of this tax, why cant then he be signed for something like 10 years? Is there a limit on length of a contract under his new status?

    Isnt $80 mill for 10 years a potential bargain? I think having this kid at 19 makes it worth the $80 mill more than these other older Cubans. Moncada may be a beefier version of Miguel Cabrera and if someone could have paid him just $80 mill for 10 years for the start of his career, everyone would have hailed it as one of the greatest contracts of all time. I think it is worth the gamble and hopefully Sabean has the temerity to push with ownership..may be a rare diamond in the rough..

    • gianthead said, on February 5, 2015 at 4:49 pm

      but I guess he would only get $40 mill of that directly roughly, so he wont agree to a 10 year type of deal. So 5 years would get him $8 mill a year personally and work out to costing the Giants $16 a year essentially. Do they have this tax up front? At the end of the year?

      Maybe a $10 mill signing bonus and spread the remainder of his contract to $6 mill a year.

      • Bozo said, on February 5, 2015 at 5:42 pm

        I think it is considered a signing bonus+taxes not his salary. I don’t think you can spread the signing bonus over years (again, I haven’t verified that), but I’d think the salary is a whole separate issue and would be on top of the bonus and taxes a team spent. Do I have this right?

  18. gianthead said, on February 5, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    williedav and Blade, here is my argument on Shields:

    The NL is a hard ball league and pitchers that throw junk ala Barry Zito are better suited for the AL. Throw 5 innings give up 5-6 runs and your team is still in the game. That shit does not work in the NL. The type of pitcher I think Shields is going to be over the next 3-4 years is that any dominance he has shown in the past will be a thing of the past. Let’s say he is a little more effective in the NL and only gives up 3-4 runs a game in the NL. That is probably going to make you a double digit loser in the NL.

    But now that he has had the rug pulled out from under him in the free agent market, he is obviously taking the best contract he can now get, I see the Cubs as the sleeper team that lands him. I think I had originally had him going to the Cubs to join Lester. Giants alleged offer to him was before Peavy and Voggy, so they are not going to pursue Shields for a 2 year deal. The biggest possible contract Shields is going to get is now, not in two years…

    • Flavor said, on February 5, 2015 at 5:10 pm

      I don’t think that’s a sleeper pick, I think it’s his likely landing spot. He’s super down with Maddon. All they need to do is offer him a deal and he’d take it

    • willedav said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:05 pm

      Shields ERA last 2 yrs has been 3.15 and 3.21, No one that gives up 5-6 runs is going to win consistently today in any league, because run scoring is way down.
      If Shields gave up 3 runs in 7 innings most times out that puts his ERA at 3.86. So if his team scores 4 runs and the pen holds, it’s a W. Giants this year are more likely to be a “torture” team, so imo he’d fit right in and do well..

      With Cubs, no. He does give up HRs and that is a good place to hit em (unlike ATT for LH). So is Milwaukee and Cincy, couple other places he will pitch, tho Reds bound to suck. I think a friendlier pitchers park and good solid D team behind him would be his best bets.

  19. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    Nipper mentioned the ’59 Dodgers playing their home games in a football stadium…..that had to be surreal during the World Series, with a packed Coliseum- 92,000 per game.

    • blade3colorado said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:49 pm

      Coors Field closed the curtain on a brief but very memorable two-year stint in Mile High Stadium. In 135 dates at Mile High, the Rockies drew 7,701,861 fans (57,051 per game). After drawing 4,483,350 in the ’93 inaugural, the Rockies were on pace to shatter that mark in ’94, averaging 58,598 through 56 home dates, which would have put the season ending mark at 4,687,840. Despite the year’s abrupt end, in two seasons the Rockies had 52 occasions when better than 60,000 paid to watch baseball; 21 times the crowd eclipsed 70,000. Capacity was 76,273 – so definitely not as big as the Coliseum, but over a season, I think they have the highest attendance on record ever.

      • zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:04 pm

        Those are incredible numbers. In a lot of ways, baseball does just fine, and shouldn’t freak out over the NFL and NBA.

    • Nipper said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:32 pm

      ALL Day games in that Series.

  20. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    Tonight (or early this morning), at 12:30 AM, there is actual live baseball happening on the MLB Network. The Australian Baseball League is starting its championship series. I know almost zero about the ABL, but if I’m awake, I’ll check it out.

    • blade3colorado said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:51 pm

      Instead of a catcher, they use a wicket. 🙂

      • zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:17 pm

        Well, that would be worth staying up late to see! 🙂

  21. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    Today’s Puig gif:

    • Nipper said, on February 5, 2015 at 9:28 pm


  22. zumiee said, on February 5, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    Alex Pavlovic is leaving the San Jose Merc. for some other Bay Area sports gig, but he didn’t say where.
    And I wonder how Baggs’ book is coming along. Didn’t he say he hoped to have it out in February?

    • snarkk said, on February 5, 2015 at 11:20 pm

      Looks like it’s CSNBA. Taking over Baggs’ gig. His writing will disappear now, like Baggs’ did.

      • zumiee said, on February 6, 2015 at 4:02 am

        Well said. That CSNBA website is a black hole.

  23. snarkk said, on February 5, 2015 at 10:42 pm

    Giants are selling as souvenirs the empty Bud bottles that were left in the wake of the Giants clubhouse celebration vs. Nats a few months ago. Cost per bottle: 69. DOLLARS.
    Seriously, I hand it to the Giants marketing folks. They don’t miss a thing when it comes to making money. Maybe it’ll be $79 for those with rancid beer still in the bottle.

  24. snarkk said, on February 5, 2015 at 11:21 pm

    I’m not going to FanFest.
    Too much Fan, not enough Fest…

  25. zumiee said, on February 6, 2015 at 4:16 am

    The Australian Baseball League championship showcases the The Heat vs. The Bite.
    Yes, one of the teams is called The Bite.
    They’re playing in a converted cricket ballpark. No dugouts; the players sitting on plastic lawn chairs behind temporary barriers.
    The game was an exciting close one, a 3-2 win for one of the teams. I don’t remember which one; hey, I was mostly asleep. And I think the team that scored the 3 runs, scored the 3 runs on consecutive solo home runs. Or maybe I only dreamed that part.

    • zumiee said, on February 6, 2015 at 4:22 am

      It actually did happen, according to this article:
      “ADELAIDE, 6 February – Back-to-back-to-back solo home runs in the bottom of the seventh inning powered the Adelaide Bite, proudly presented by SA Power Networks, to a 3-2 win over the Alcohol. Think Again Perth Heat in Game One of the Australian Baseball League Championship Series, presented by ConocoPhillips.
      Stefan Welch, Tom Brice and Mitch Dening all went deep over the right-field fence in the seventh off of Heat starter Mike McClendon, who had tossed six shutout innings and only allowed three hits prior to the start of the seventh. Welch went deep to lead off the frame, followed by the game-tying blast off the bat of Brice and the game-winning dinger from Dening.
      “That was definitely the coolest thing I’ve ever been a part of in baseball,” Dening said. “I couldn’t write a better script; that’s what our season has been like in a nutshell.””

      • zumiee said, on February 6, 2015 at 4:24 am

        “blast off the bat of Brice
        and the game-winning dinger from Dening.”

        That’s almost poetic.

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