A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Sabean Still Waiting for The Trade Deadline

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on February 24, 2015

I found the Giants non-pursuit of Yoan Moncada rather amusing. Did anyone really think we were in on this guy? Sabean said, “We were involved, just not as much as other teams.” The bottom line is that Sabean will never pay market value for a hot prospect from Cuba. I don’t know if he’s skittish from the Ozzie Fernandez thing or if he just doesn’t know how to compete. Maybe ownership won’t let him. But the freaking Brewers made an offer in the 12-15 million dollar range and if Sabean wasn’t as involved as THAT then of course he never had a shot.

I don’t really care, I don’t find myself pining away for 2nd basemen from Cuba, especially with Joe Panik on the team. And Moncada is only 19 (though more likely 22).

I just get tired of Sabean spoon feeding us nonsense. Just tell the fans you aren’t ever going to sign a player from Cuba unless there is zero competition and he costs under 2 mil. Like when you signed Daniel Carbonell (who no one else mistook for a hot prospect).

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  1. xoot said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:54 am

    Just saw a story about an 18 year old Mexican kid in the dodgers camp this spring. Throws a nice easy 98, they say. LA picked him up while they were in Mexico recruiting Puig. Also saw an explanation for NYYs folding on Moncada — they shot their international budget wad last season, signing other young players. Wish I could find a run down on what the Giants have been doing since the signing bonus system kicked in. I mean, they have been signing Latin American players, haven’t they?

  2. willedav said, on February 24, 2015 at 7:05 am

    It’s gotta be ownership on Moncada. They told Sabes here’s your limit—if he takes it fine, otherwise no. Which imo is unfortunate because like Red Sox Giants have money and will not have an opportunity like this to go out and buy a prospect that is highly rated. An int’l draft is definitely coming soon.

    Yes he will be paid big bucks to be a minor leaguer for a couple years but after that could turn into a productive player who is cost controlled, such as Belt and Crawford, with upside. A player at top end like a Neil Walker will cost $10 mil, and Chase Headley is getting 4 yrs at $55 mil. These guys are good but not great and in this day of declining offense command this type of $$$. And that is what Sox are hoping he turns into, a guy that by mid or late 20s is very valuable.

    Contrast that with FA such as Sandoval where by time contract ($20 mil for 5 yrs) is up there is most likely downside, and it’s not “if” only how much. Sando was a 3 WAR player with .740 OPS last year and locals think he has been on steady decline already. Giants were prepared to pay that too. With Moncada Sox are betting on the opposite, that in 5yrs they could have a productive everyday player increasing in value.

    • gianthead said, on February 24, 2015 at 1:18 pm

      I think you are spot on….

    • twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 5:41 pm

      Pablo got that contract because there was a dearth of 3rd base free agents. If there were more good third basemen he would gotten far less.

  3. unca_chuck said, on February 24, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Or not.

    If he plays OF which I think he does, then I’d say sure. At some point in the future they need to develop an OFer.

    Much like the Niners and a WR. You’d think after 25 years of trying, they’d get one right.

    • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:17 am

      Charlie – The only stats available for the guy (that I could find) are for two years on the Cuban national team. He played only 2nd base for them. I did find another article on him, and it was mentioned that he also plays SS and 3rd. No mention of every playing the OF.

  4. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 24, 2015 at 8:08 am

    I think you’re right that the Giants will never be in on Cuban players but I am good with that as I think they’re mostly over hyped anyway. Throw in the open question of age and it’s a roll of the dice that may not be worth it. Despite outside evaluations of the farm system I think Sabean is sticking with his belief in internal development. It’s hard to argue when you look at the big with Bumgarner, Cain, Romo, Posey, Belt, Crawford and now the arrival of Panik, Susac.

    With the season approaching I am fine with the off season moves. Or lack thereof.

    • blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 9:25 am

      The voice of reason (along with Bozo). I’m down with what Sabes and ownership did. By the by, it’s not exactly like the Giants were the only team negotiating with these Cubans. lqtm.

    • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:20 am

      I second…third…fourth “the voice of reason” and am also happy with the way the team has approached the off-season. If changes need to be made mid-season or at the deadline, you know Sabean will be ready.

      • pawliekokonuts said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:22 pm

        I fifth that…and I don’t even drink.

  5. Bozo said, on February 24, 2015 at 8:30 am

    Well, the Sox outbid the Yankees and Dodgers as well. Sorry, but I’m glad the Giants didn’t get this guy, I can’t even imagine what it would have cost to get the kid to sign with us.

    I must be getting conservative in my old age, because I can’t see shelling out $60 million cash for a 19 year old to develop in my Farm system. Me, I would rather have a proven MLer like McCutchen for 6 years at $51.5.

  6. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 24, 2015 at 9:09 am

    Man, I am on the edge of my seat this spring. Will it be Duffy or Arias? The lunatic fringe wants to know.

    • Flavor said, on February 24, 2015 at 9:18 am

      how about the back up catcher race? hector v susac. riveting.

      • Bozo said, on February 24, 2015 at 9:30 am


      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 24, 2015 at 9:43 am

        Will Juan Perez break with the big club? Okay, now I’m getting the juices flowing.

      • twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:20 pm

        They’re not going to tell Hector that he has no shot but I find it hard to believe that Susac won’t have the job.

    • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:23 am

      Ths suspense on all of these topics if fucking killing me, too! But seriously, it will be interesting to see how the utility and back-up situations shake-out. Unless Hector just completely goes off this spring, I think Susac has a good shot at backing-up Buster.

      And from what I saw of the Duffster last year, I like his chances to make the club (he knows how to handle a bat…was the Eastern League batting champ last year, which is a “pitchers league,” and seems to know his way around the infield).

      It is going to be interesting and fun.

  7. Lurker John said, on February 24, 2015 at 10:22 am

    I don’t have a problem with what the Giants did regarding Moncada or what Sabean said about the team’s approach in these situations (international players). My initial feeling with these things is often, “Let’s go after the guy!” But the fact is, he’s an unproven commodity and there’s zero guarantee he’ll ever be worth $31M in the Majors. Baseball history is littered with hot prospects who never did squat. It comes down to the same tune, how do you argue with 3 in 5? The G’s just don’t do flash.

    What I would like to see is the Giant’s farm system start to produce some more quality position players, namely outfielders. It’s been a long time a Giants fan could say they were excited about a young outfielder coming up through the system. Pitching is their bread and butter, but a lot of their annual drudgery in trying to come up with a left fielder could be lessened if they had a quality guy they groomed. A guy who can hit and field.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 5:43 pm

      Williamson will be the LFer by 2016 IMO.

  8. Alleykat said, on February 24, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Just don’t see the value in Arias anymore. Duffy can do the job as the backup and is younger,
    Far as Sanchez vs Susac, no brainer it’s Susac cause Sanchez’s brain is fried,might as well use him in an arcade as a “Wac-the Mole”

    • blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 10:32 am

      Good one AK . . . Wac the Mole. Still laughing. 🙂

      • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:26 am

        Yep…the Wac a Mole reference had me LMAO, too. Good stuff, Kat.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 5:51 pm

      That’s a pretty harsh comment about a guy who’s had multiple concussions.
      As far as Arias he’s under contract, Duffy will compete with Adrianza for the other infield utility job. Since Ehire is out of options I think he’ll be on the 25-man and Duffy will open in Sacto.

  9. blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 10:37 am

    I have posted quite a few times why California taxes are the reason the Giants miss out on players; and now the Giants and Sabean are admitting this is why they “don’t overpay.” Specifically, this is what Sabean said:

    “To entice a free agent to come to San Francisco, we’re almost in an overpay situation, so why get involved in all those battles where you’re not going to be able to go up the totem pole money-wise?” Sabean said.
    When asked to elaborte on why the Giants have to overpay, Sabean said, “You’ve got the state of California taxes. (San Francisco) is a long way from where some of these guys live in the offseason. It’s not a hitters’ ballpark, so you can scratch that side of the fence. It takes the right pitcher to consider wanting to come there for a number of different reasons, some of them I just mentioned, even if it’s a pitchers’ ballpark in a pitchers’ division.”
    Asked if the high California income tax has been a problem for a while, Sabean said, “To a certain extent. Things now are getting more and more about the signing bonus, more and more about your take-home. Exponentially, when you get involved in some of those numbers, it makes a sizeable difference to some.”

    • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:27 am

      I read that article (or one with the same quotes) on CSNBA this morning. Good read.

  10. willedav said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:11 am

    I read Sabes response on CSNBA, and imo that’s complete company line BS.
    Calif taxes didn’t bother James Shields from going to SD, and the travel doesn’t impact Dodgers any more than Giants either. And don’t tell Jeff Kent you can’t hit at ATT; Huff and Uribe each blasted over 20 HRs here too.

    What does impact the Giants is that they do “overpay” to keep their own, even if no one is bidding against them, Cain, Lincecum, Pagan, Scutaro and Lopez being Exhibits A through E. These guys alone count for as much as Moncada in one year. And don’t forget Sabes was ready to overpay to keep Sandoval too, general consensus here being it’s lucky for SF it didn’t work out.

    I understand the prevailing sentiment he can do no wrong, but imo there’s a lot of evidence to contrary.

    • blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:14 am

      Shields grew up and lives in SD.

      • blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:31 am

        Also, to provide evidence that the Giants offered more money to Shields and he decided to turn it down, read this . . . http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25075306/shields-rebuffed-bigger-giants-offer-weeks-before-landing-in-san-diego

        That makes Sandoval, Lester, and Shields who were given very competitive offers (or actually outbid the other teams in the case of Pablo and Shields).

      • willedav said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:49 am

        Yes, I understand Shields going to Padres but that blows up the tax argument–it wasn’t a deal breaker.
        It also didn’t stop Greinke from signing a big deal to come to Dodgers as FA from Brewers.

        Bottom line I don’t think Sabes has done much to help LF (or CF in case we get Pagan redux), 3b, or SP rotation, or bench. He has just as much history of bringing chump replacements in the odd years as he does of stealing away productive players in even ones. And face it, he does get lucky with what guys like Ross and Scut did, as opposed to Jeff Keppingers or Frenchy Francoeurs of the world.

      • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 12:38 pm

        WillieD – show me a GM with a better track record over five, ten, or whatever years. Fuck, every GM is going to have a swing and miss. So, with whom would you replace Sabean?

    • blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:20 am

      No, he can do wrong. He’s not perfect. However, he also has led the Giants to 3 World Series titles. I will take him every day and twice on Sunday versus any of these other 31 GMs. Oh, just my opinion, but he gets a pass for the next 56 years. 🙂

    • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:30 am

      What Blade said. But seriously (and especially if you are a Florida resident) taxes have to be a consideration for these guys. Is it going to be the “make or break” aspect of signing with a team, or not? Oh hell no, but I believe it is a consideration. Along with some of the other comments such as how far away SF is from their home base, etc. Yep…I take Sabean over any other swinging dick out there who purports to be a ML GM.

  11. chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:34 am

    I am glad they didn’t win the Moncado sweepstakes. The Giants (and some of you will bitch about this), while being flush with cash, and having the richest owner in all of baseball, will never go over the luxury tax threshold. So, I believe when they talk budget, they always try to allow some wiggle-room for making changes/adding players later in the year. It is their method, and it has brought them three world championships in the last five years. With that said, I am down with passing on the young Cubano, and also with the moves (and lack thereof) that Sabean and crew made in the off-season.

    I am ready for some fucking baseball! Let’s Get it On!

  12. chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 11:36 am

    Here are the only stats I could find on Moncado…this two years on the Cuban national team. His ranking on the team:

    BA – 11th
    OBP – 5th
    SLG – 13th
    OPS – 10th.

    He played all games at 2nd, tho in a separtate article I saw where he also plays some SS and 3rd.


    • gianthead said, on February 24, 2015 at 1:35 pm

      Chi, the kid is only bloody 19…..

      • giants54 said, on February 24, 2015 at 2:11 pm

        So were Harper and Upton. If this kid is a worth all the hype, shouldn’t he be at least tearing it up in the Cuban leagues?

      • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 2:25 pm

        Calm down GH…just passing along info on his stats. I really don’t give a rats ass…but I am happy that our Giants are not the ones throwing 60+ mil at an unproven talent.

  13. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 24, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    I appreciate Sabean’s candor about players not wanting to come to SF, or CA, for whatever reason but I can see willie’s side too. Sabean should STFU about why players don’t want to come. It’s sour grapes. Whew, all this Sabean talk reminds me of a forgotten second baseman from not long ago. Bill Hall. We hardly knew ye.

  14. Nipper said, on February 24, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    If I were Sabean, I would be cautious about paying big bucks to Cuban guys. So I’m not critical of his lack of moves on this front.

  15. willedav said, on February 24, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Chi, I’m not downplaying Sabes success and I’m certainly not in the camp of that old wacko FireSabeanNow.

    As a team that got in on the last day, I think Giants have some issues as I said above and he didn’t do much to address them except for hoping his injured players all bounce back strongly. Which could happen; but maybe others suffer a drop off, for which I think SF is ill prepared esp in OF and rotation. Those bench battle posts cracked me up…”riveting.” Good thing Whiteside is a coach…for now.

    Getting guys mid season is a little tougher these days because with extra WC in both leagues more teams still think they are in, result being it’s more a sellers market than a buyers one. Sure hope Peavy is more like last year for SF than what he did earlier for Sox, which is what made him available in first place.

    • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 2:28 pm

      It is all good, WillieD. Sure, Sabean has had his flaws, but I will take him ANY DAY over any other GM out there today. Time will tell, and I cannot wait for the season to begin.

  16. gianthead said, on February 24, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    First, as people are keen on overlooking as Chi posting his stats, Moncada is only 19 years old. What should he have been putting Pujols or Cabrera numbers from their mid to late 20s???

    Second, I don’t see anyone in our system that has his potential upside offensively. Can anyone point to me being wrong on that front?

    Third, he may have been playing second, but he is not thin as a stick. If he had been pursued by Sabean, he could easily have been developed into a 3b. If we could have had a potential Cano or even a Jeff Kent in 4-5 years, the $32-$33 mill signing bonus would seem quite reasonable and a bargain considering he would then be kept at cheap rates until he hit his free agent years. The $30 odd mill for the tax is just a cost of doing business for a unique situation for a unique talent. No one in ownership or management can possibly attempt to say with a straight face that the team does not have the resources to pay such a tax.

    I think Sabean is not to blame for having his hands tied and he may not feel the freedom to say publicly his hands are tied by ownership. They are paying his salary. But clearly his hands are tied and I honestly don’t think ownership has any vision about building for the future. This Johnson guy and others in ownership are bottom line all about the Benjamins types. Not baseball guys or baseball visionaries.

    Sabean’s tax argument has no bearing here since Moncada is getting the signing bonus spread over three years. The Giants and ownership have no excuse not to have gone after Moncada harder.

    • chipower9 said, on February 24, 2015 at 2:35 pm

      I am not overlooking shit, GH. I was simply sharing what the fuck his stats were for two years on the Cuban national team. Nothing more, nothing less. I get it that the kid is 19 fucking years old. All the more reason to NOT throw 60+ mil at him, IMO.

      Potential upside offensiviely? I would say Belt and Susac. I think either with regular playing time (and staying healthy) has the potential to hit 20 bombs and drive in 80 or so runs. Belt’s key I believe is staying healthy. Susac’s is playing time behind Buster.

      They (Sabes and ownership) do not need an excuse IMO. They played it the way I would have given the current situation.

      I respect your opinion on the kid…I just happen to disagree with it.

    • Bozo said, on February 24, 2015 at 3:55 pm

      My money is on the “Visionaries” that have brought us three trophies in five seasons.

      • Alleykat said, on February 24, 2015 at 5:37 pm

        Damm right Clown!!
        Visionary & Bumgarner goes along way!!

  17. blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Anyone know whether Curry is playing tonight?

    • blade3colorado said, on February 24, 2015 at 3:43 pm


  18. twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:15 pm

    My guess on the 25 man:
    Ishi ( Although I think Maxwell will have a big spring and challenge for the late PHer and 5th OF field job. Perez and Brown are out, they won’t go with 3 rabbits.

    • DJLoo said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:45 pm

      I have a feeling Adrianza’s gonna be a player. I think he makes it, too. I guess Kontos competition is Machi and Strickland. Don’t think there’s a lot of upside with Kontos. Arias/Duffy could go either way – or they both make it if Ehire flops.

      • twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:49 pm

        I forgot Machi. Vogey changed the landscape. Jean would the front runner for the last spot. We know how Bochy likes a veteran bullpen.

      • twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:53 pm

        Arias is under contract and he’s a good 3rd baseman. I think well see a lot of him if they have a lead in the late innings.

      • DJLoo said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:57 pm

        Good to see you here, Mr. Scott. Hope you and the Mrs. are doing well…

      • twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 7:15 pm

        Thanks. We’ve been better. But as they say, we’re still walking on the right side of the grass.

  19. twinfan1 said, on February 24, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    You guys all go to bed at 5 o’clock? Or do you actually have a life?
    To elaborate on the free agent market, it’s not unlike real estate- a player is worth what he gets.

  20. zumiee said, on February 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    Some Dodger fans were getting philosophical about Sabean and the Giants today:

    One of my favorites:
    Joe Nathan
    Boof Bonser
    Francisco Liriano
    Aj Pierzinski

    by Ivdown on Feb 24, 2015 | 2:55 PM up reply

    Sabean + Ned (Assistant GM) special

    by silverwidow on Feb 24, 2015 | 2:57 PM up reply

    It angers me to no end that Sabean has 3 WS rings
    He was considered one of the worst GMs in baseball for years before 2010.

    by Ivdown on Feb 24, 2015 | 2:58 PM up reply

    my favorite part is he did it with barry (zito) not barry (bonds)

    by hee came hee seop’d he choi’d on Feb 24, 2015 | 3:00 PM up reply

    it is amazing is it not?

    Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

    by Phil Gurnee on Feb 24, 2015 | 3:08 PM up reply

    Posey and Bumgarner fell into his lap because of some terrible teams before 2010

    by silverwidow on Feb 24, 2015 | 3:01 PM up reply

    Posey in particular because there were a lot of people who thought he should’ve gone #1 and no worse than #3 overall.

    by BFDC on Feb 24, 2015 | 3:04 PM up reply

    I really wanted to bring them up
    But they’ve gotten so much good production out of guys like Pagan, Burrell, Scutaro, Ross, Freddy Sanchez, Andres Torres, Melky, Petit, Gaudin, Vogelsong, and I’m sure there’s more.

    All of the nobodies or guys past their prime that helped them win a championship is ridiculous and enviable.

    by Ivdown on Feb 24, 2015 | 3:06 PM up reply

    Bochy becoming a great manager helped too, good coaching staff in general including Righetti (Bochy really has gotten better; when he was a younger manager a lot of Padres fans, and then later at first Giants fans, wanted him gone… now he’s possibly or likely a hall of famer.)
    They’ve certainly had their share of freakish luck and good things that had to go right go right, plus an ace pitcher pitching insanely good. But I don’t want to go further down this road again anyway… 😉

    by underdog on Feb 24, 2015 | 3:50 PM up reply

    One of the takeaways from watching this past postseason is that the better managers are the ones who don’t do stupid shit.

    Stupid shit like:
    taking out Zimmermann during a 3-hit shutout with two out in the 9th
    putting in Scott Elbert to face Yadier Molina in the late innings with the game on the line
    giving Madbum a free out in Game 7 when he’s clearly struggling with his command on short rest

    Bochy didn’t do any stupid shit.

    by The Dude Abides on Feb 24, 2015 | 6:15 PM up reply

  21. unca_chuck said, on February 24, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    Jesus. They bring up the AJ trade? Ancient history. Colletti’s made about 10 moves worse than that in his tenure. Too funny.

    The Dude is right . . .

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