A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

What to Expect From Angel Pagan

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on February 25, 2015

Yes, he had back surgery, but the procedure wasn’t career threatening. Still, he’s 33 years old and plays like he’s 23. He could easily break again.

Nori Aoki waits in the wings to leadoff if Pagan gets hurt again. It’s not going to happen, but I’d lead Aoki off to start the season. He’s a better leadoff hitter than Pagan who, at this point in his career, might be better off hitting down the line up anyway. And there’s probably a slightly less chance of injury if Pagan doesn’t feel like he’s got to fly around the bases every time up. Hit the ball in the gap, score Aoki, jog to first base. That sounds about Pagan’s speed these days……

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  1. unca_chuck said, on February 25, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Try telling him that.

  2. blade3colorado said, on February 25, 2015 at 7:59 am

    Nice comment by Adam Eaton specifically talking about the White Sox additions this season, but referencing the Giants and Royals as the template . . .

    “I would say we brought in some skill guys,” Eaton said. “I wouldn’t say they’re top five [at their position], but they’re good baseball players who go about their business the right way. They’re good clubhouse guys, good steady guys who are going to give you a solid season. I think that’s what you need. You look at the Giants, you look at the Royals. They don’t have that much star power, but they’re solid across the board. They’re good, humble guys who play the game the right way.”

    • stickman said, on February 25, 2015 at 10:54 am

      Nice: Giants latched onto this new pitching dominated paradigm first. Then they realized that the death of a thousand cuts by mostly singles hitting high OBP hitters was the way to go under this new regime. Add good defense up the middle and unit cohesion and you get a Halloween Machine parade.

  3. willedav said, on February 25, 2015 at 8:00 am

    Pagan is better baserunner and will steal more bags than Aoki, whose pct isn’t great and steals only as many as Blanco. Pagan in 6th hole might not be a bad idea because I think 6-8 is where fatal flaw in LU is.
    Pence isn’t a real patient guy. If no one hits after him he’ll get pitched around and either have to take the BB or start flailing at out of the zone stuff.

    I like Pagan and hope he can stay healthy this season, but I wish Sabes had acquired a legit CF. If the back up plan has Blanco and Aoki in the LU that’s gonna suck; one of those guys on regular basis is too many for me. Btw Panik and Aoki they hit 2 HRs all last season, Triples? Blanco hit more than Aoki did, and he hit more HRs too. I don’t see ATT being any more forgiving than KC. Combine this with MacG/Arias/Duffy and you might not get 5 HRs out of 3b.

    So in order to score runs without pop or much speed Giants are going to need to hit for higher avg/more singles. Pagan and Panik both hit .300 last year and Mac was at .290. If those numbers aren’t sustainable (very doubtful imo) I can see Giants struggling to score runs and 2015 being a torture year.

  4. gianthead said, on February 25, 2015 at 8:56 am

    I am in the camp that they should just put Pagan in left to avoid the wear and tear and I think Blanco knows CF at ATT better Aoki…

    • stickman said, on February 25, 2015 at 10:57 am

      Yes, LF is the logical place for Pagan. But it might be a bit much for Bochy to convince him that his skills are more suited for batting 6th AND moving him over to LF. He does have some ego issues.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:41 am


    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:57 am
    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 12:12 pm


  5. twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Blanco *is* a legit CFer and last year he showed that the prevailing “wisdom” wasn’t correct anymore as he got better as he played more- he had an excellent second half. Obviously the brass thought him valuable or they wouldn’t have given a 2 deal with nice raise. That’s not to say he should replace Aoki or Pagan but I suspect that all three will have significant playing time. And although injuries can’t be predicted the return from injuries from Belt and Angel and a full season from Panik should offset the loss of Panda and Morse. In fact Aoki is a better all around player than the Beast. The bench will be better as well. The problem is the starting pitching. I’m confident that Cain will be an excellent 2, MadBum might challenge for the CY but beyond those two, it’s very iffy. The bullpen will be very good as usual. Their fate in 2015 depends on the rotation. Between Hudson, Timmy, Peavey, Nicole’s husband, and possibly a young arm from the farm they’ll need at least two good starters. You only hope for respectability from the 5 spot.
    All of this is IMO, of course.

    • willedav said, on February 25, 2015 at 9:21 am

      Defensively I agree with you on Blanco. but he is a proven .260 hitter with .700 OPS ceiling who got off to awful start (which you choose to ignore and only focus on last couple months) and does not handle leadoff well. If you look at Steamer projections for SF, there are a lot of guys like that–Crawford Panik Mac and Aoki plus Blanco. Imo that’s too many weak sticks in the LU and unless these guys hit well Belt and Posey aren’t gonna make up for it. With Pagan’s health and effectiveness a ?, I think not getting a better hitter was a mistake.

      • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:20 am

        I chose how he did after break because that was contrary to the previous years where he had played worse as he played more.Plus you chose career OPS where as his career OBP (.344 )is more important in his case, And I never said that I’d use him in the 1 spot, I’d slot him in the 7 or 8. Anyway I disagree with your outlook on the offense in 2015, so we’ll just how it goes. I’m sure that you hope I’m right.

    • stickman said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:00 am

      Good take as usual, Twin. The OF contains a nice set of interchangeable parts and obviously Blanco should get plenty of game time from roughly the 6th through 9th innings. My read on the SPs is fairly close to yours, with the perception that Blach and Blackburn are both VERY close. Likely, Hudson will again melt down shortly after the Break and who’s to say where we’re at with our $17M double-Cy.

  6. giants54 said, on February 25, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Yeah, those “legit” CFer’s are in abundance, just sitting around waiting for a call. They can be picked up for a song. Get a 5 tool LF as well, just in case. And oh, a CY candidate, just in case Bum goes down.

  7. dirtnrocksnomo said, on February 25, 2015 at 9:50 am

    The Groper is back on the scene. Signed with the dodgers. More hospitals down there I guess.

  8. Bozo said, on February 25, 2015 at 9:55 am

    I read that the doctor that did Pagan’s operation was the same guy that did Payton Manning, so he’s got that going for him. Should Pagan still be leading off? I’m not sure, but for whatever reason, he always seemed to fire up himself and the troops from that spot in the order. But, lower in the order makes some sense as well. Tough call at the moment.

  9. Macdog said, on February 25, 2015 at 10:26 am

    While I haven’t found a direct quote from Bochy about this, I did see in a Pav story that “Bochy hasn’t ruled out putting new left fielder Nori Aoki atop the lineup at some point and moving Pagan down to the No. 3 spot.” I would expect to see Bochy at least tinker with such a lineup in spring training — that’s what these practice games are for — and if all goes well, who knows, maybe Aoki will end up at the top of the order come Opening Day. And if not, I’m fine with Bochy putting the guy who was a big part of the 2012 World Series champs back in the leadoff spot.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:44 am


      • Macdog said, on February 25, 2015 at 12:34 pm

        Good to see ya back.

    • chipower9 said, on February 25, 2015 at 12:52 pm

      Ah…did not see your post, Mac. Yeah, I posted the same (about Bochy moving guys around) and shared a couple of links that has info to that effect. Bottom line, Pagan is not locked-into the 1 hole, and he seems to be fine with that, saying he has hit all up and down the line-up in the past. I am way past ready to see how it all plays out, and next Tuesday we begin to see how some of this all shakes-out.

  10. gianthead said, on February 25, 2015 at 10:30 am

    I agree with Twin that Aoki will get plenty of starts and I am sure Blanco and Aoki will get some starts at lead-off. But if they start Blanco in CF I still think Pagan leads off most of the time. Panik natural two-hole. But this team is going to struggle with the long ball so they need lots of base runners and lots of bunts and moving people over….

    • blade3colorado said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:25 am

      So what? We won without the long ball in 2010. We were no great shakes in 2012 and last season either. We wont need bunts – it’s not Bochy’s strategy. GH, I’m not going to look it up, but many of our runs in the postseason didn’t even involve frickin’ hits. πŸ™‚

    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:53 am
  11. stickman said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:07 am

    If you guys care to check back to immediately after the Giants signed Aoki, i proposed a lineup featuring him leading off and Pagan batting sixth. Pagan does have some power and plenty of slash. Batting sixth he will make for a very lonnnng lineup ~ a must in these days of dominant pitching. Also in that position he will be able to start rallies backed up by Crawdaddy, whom i think will surpass 10 HRs this season and Mcgehee, an excellent OBP man.

    Obviously, when Bochy made his recent statements, he had come to the same tentative conclusion that had occurred to me ~ mix em according to their skill sets. In a later posting i plan on sharing an excellent NYT article covering the SF win over Strasburg and the Nats in game one of the NLDS. Though the writer does not use the “death of a thousand cuts” term of which i’m so fond, he explicitly points out that the Giants approach to Strasburg, combined with MadBum’s mound dominance made for a winning formula.

  12. blade3colorado said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:15 am

    I’m not even concerned about the lineup. We got better defensively and offensively with a full year of Belt, Pagan, and Panik, coupled with the additions of Mac and Aoki. Yeah, it may not be sexy without Pablo and Morse, but the “conga line” is going to move along much better with these contact hitters (Mac and Aoki) and full time services of Pagan, Belt and Panik.

    Agree with Twin that the starting pitching might be “iffy” after Bum and Cain (who I am also not concerned about). Still, the starting pitching has options going forward and Sabes can reinforce at the trade deadline.

    By the by, I also want to know where all these “legit” add-ons can be acquired? How much would they cost in trade, prospects, etc.? Giants54 is spot on in other words . . .

  13. chipower9 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:53 am

    From the latest I have heard, Aoki will get plenty of starts leading off, and Pagan could be dropped to the 3 or 5 hole (this per Bochy). Here are two articles that allude to this. One from back on Feb. 6th, and the second from yesterday.



    From the first link (I believe) Bochy also talks about slotting McGehee hitting 6th, but also with the flexibility to move him up a slot depending on the match-up.

    Personally, I think this is going to be a fun team to watch.

    And I am with Twin and Blade…the rotation is my biggest concern.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:55 am


      • chipower9 said, on February 25, 2015 at 11:59 am

        I am doing good Michael. Thanks. I hope this finds all well for you and Merna. I saw on your response to Loo from yesterday that you two have been better, but loved your comment that you are still “walking on the right side of the grass.” As Krukow would say “Atta Babe!” Was happy to see you posting here.

  14. twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Did I forget anybody? I’m getting cross-eyed.

    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 12:10 pm

      Craig knows I haven’t forgotten him, he checks in regularly to see how we’re doing. But “Good Afternoon” anyway.

  15. zumiee said, on February 25, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    Another one of my favorite parts of the preseason is when viewers can use their “guide” feature on their TV, scrolling ahead, and the Spring Training game listings start showing up on the MLB Network schedule. They start running several games a day and night, most of them tape-delay, but that’s fine.

    As much as anything else about ST, I’m curious about how well Tomas will do for the D-Backs. I’m hoping the Giants didn’t blow that one. The D-Backs are going to try him at 3B, and hope that Goldschmidt can deal with some bad throws. If he hits well, he would have been a nice fit in LF for the Giants. Yeah, I know, let it go. πŸ™‚

    • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 12:18 pm

      ALOHA !

      • Flavor said, on February 25, 2015 at 1:17 pm

        are you modifying your comments or is someone else doing it?

  16. twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    The hellos? All mine .With a little Google help.
    Π”ΠΎΠ±Ρ€Ρ‹ΠΉ дСнь.

    • Flavor said, on February 25, 2015 at 2:06 pm

      Got it, I get it now. You’re usually a bit more loquacious πŸ™‚

      • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 2:58 pm

        Well, Merna made me take all the fucks, shits, and lunkheads out πŸ˜‰

      • twinfan1 said, on February 25, 2015 at 3:08 pm

        Loquacious? No call for that. I may not what I used to be but I’m not Loco.
        BTW, I’ll be 68 in April. How the hell did that happen? I don’t look a day over 67.

      • DJLoo said, on February 25, 2015 at 5:20 pm

        You broke in with Jackie Robinson!

    • blade3colorado said, on February 25, 2015 at 3:35 pm

      Thai or Russian, right? LOL

  17. Alleykat said, on February 25, 2015 at 3:10 pm


  18. Irish Kevin said, on February 25, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    Well first things first, hello Chi nice tO see you posting again. I was worried no one would give me shit when I talk about the old farts on the team…😜😜😜. Next Twin you don’t look a day over the stone tablet you are using. Even though I will be 60 in April, so I have the upgraded stone tablet. And hello everyone else!! Baseball is in the air, I am so excited to have the Giants AAA here in Sacramento!! Going to be an exciting year all the way around.

  19. zumiee said, on February 25, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    One of the kind of funny things, to me, about Spring Training games is how the veterans who play a few innings early in the game are allowed to leave after they’ve completed their innings. They can just take off.

    • Alleykat said, on February 25, 2015 at 4:12 pm

      The vets need to sharpen their golf games,and what better place to play,in and around Scottsdale. ⛳️

  20. unca_chuck said, on February 25, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    Hola Mike! Glad to see you back limbering up for another season of Giants baseball.

  21. blade3colorado said, on February 25, 2015 at 5:16 pm

    I’ve been viewing the ESPN Rob Manfred interview and I didn’t think there could be a bigger idiot then Selig. Wrong. What’s the idiom about the apple? Goes something like, “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.” Selig could be this guy’s father . . .

  22. willedav said, on February 25, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    Blade, I think you got your years mixed up. 2010 the Giants were 6th in NL HRs and 6th in slugging.
    7 guys hit at least 10.
    Huff hit 26 Uribe 24 Burrell and Posey 18 Torres 16 Sandoval and Rowand 13 and 11.
    How many current Giants do you and Giants 54 see putting up those kind of numbers this year?

    It certainly is harder to find good hitting OFs these days, but there were a couple available, including J Upton, that are much better hitters than Aoki and Blanco and would likely provide an added 100-150 points of OPS. And that’s my take—neither of these guys are gonna provide much offense (and both are at best .700 OPS hitters), so if Pagan isn’t healthy and both of them are in the LU on regular basis, SF will struggle to score runs unless all the singles hitters hit for very high averages.
    I’d count that as unlikely. Torture games I find are quite exciting to watch; I think it’s not a stretch to envision Giants being in a lot of them and hopefully winning their share.

    • blade3colorado said, on February 25, 2015 at 8:44 pm

      2012 I meant – they were last place in HR by a lot. If I recall correctly, it resulted in a World Series championship. Regardless, the Giants common thread has been pitching. How they score runs is less important to me, but whatever . . . Some fans like the long ball. I just disagree with your assessment that the Giants are likely to face plant this season. Just have to disagree. πŸ™‚

      • willedav said, on February 25, 2015 at 9:32 pm

        A lot of ifs that could go many different ways is what makes baseball so exciting, every day for 162, I guess. tho not ST, for me, so I’m out til games start counting. Meanwhile those battles go on:
        Ehire or Duffy?
        Kontos or Machi?
        Riveting or epic?
        Y’all decide.

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